BYD

dvdmovie1

I don't have interest in owning EV names, but if I did I'd rather BYD as well. Or own stakes in STLA (14.2% of economic and voting rights) and RACE (22.9% of economic rights, 34.5% of voting rights) via EXXRF (although some brokerages charge absurd fees for foreign ordinary trades.)

AluminiumCaffeine

I would rather, and do, own BYD. If you can tolerate the China risk it has both pure BEV and PHEV hybrid exposure, margins have actually been rising as Teslas fall, growth is still solid, and operationally I dont have to worry about Elon tweeting.

dansdansy

I agree they'll benefit in real terms as the EV market will undoubtedly keep growing, but compared to the expectations priced into their stock price the past few years being a successful car manufacturer and provider of charging services isn't going to support the valuation. The most worrying thing is their rapidly deteriorating moat (due to BYD's impressive battery tech, CCP intervention in the EV market, and Google maps making it easy to find chargers of any type without relying on Tesla's facilitation of their cars finding their chargers). We're seeing the effect of a deteriorating moat on their profit margins since 2020-2022 and now it's hitting their sales. That's all without going into the company's leadership. Now all that is why it's been dropping, but not necessarily why it could keep dropping. Things can change quickly, but I'll say that their upcoming next gen cars for 2025 are make or break with all this competition.

dansdansy

My thought is that they're in trouble due to competition in their main growth market, China. I wouldn't be surprised to see them end up pushed out of the Chinese mainland in the next 10 years with BYD as the beneficiary. This is a stark difference from where people saw things in 2020-2022, China was seen as Tesla's main growth engine and without that we're going to see significant PE compression.

datafisherman

This is where 'vibes' starts shouldering an outsized part of the analytical burden. I think OP has a point that the magnitude of the discrepancy between the popular perception (and share price) of the companies' futures and their actual underlying prospects bears some resemblance. Meta was a mature company undertaking an orthogonal bet, but Tesla is the victim of (likely temporary) industry-wide pessimism and the threat of budget-model competition from companies like BYD. Tesla might have to pivot, but anybody thinking it will put itself through the meatgrinder underestimates Musk.

_hiddenscout

There really isn't a ton of positives for them right now. Seems like the EV transition is not going the way a lot of people thought and actually the consumer really wants hybrids right now. It's not great they also scrapped the cheaper car, since BYD is actually competing with them in China. At some point it might actually hit a price where TSLA makes sense to buy, but the issue with them is still their valuation, since it's priced like a growth stock and not a car company and they are starting to look like growth is slowing and they are in fact a car company.

Dismal_Apple_8043

All I see in my city are BYD electric cars, like a plague. They have made an affordable mass-produced car, I assume?

SidTrippish

Tesla is facing serious competition as well from other EV makers..forcing Tesla to lower their price in the near future..BYD outsold Tesla in China last year

bjran8888

It's kind of funny that the U.S. Inflation Act provides a $7,500 subsidy to all EVs with batteries made in the U.S. - that could buy a low-end EV right out of China. (This is still a new policy, Tesla had already received billions in subsidies prior to this policy) The truth is that US politicians lack vision and are slow to act. If BYD was an American company, Biden would be trumpeting the fact that it's a credit to him, not caring about "subsidies."

JoaquinBenoit

They can still grow, but with BYD outpacing them, the European coordinated strikes, and the other automakers investing throughout the US as opposed to just Austin and Vegas, it’s going to be hard.

spicymcqueen

Ok, The United States wouldn't own any shares because it isn't a socialist country. I'm referring to attempting to purchase shares of BYD which the CCP has made illegal for foreigners to directly own equity in Chinese companies and there is no rule of law in China to protect foreign investors that but stock in shell companies listed on Western exchanges like BABA. Whereas if you purchased shares of an American company, there are US laws protecting your ownership of that company as a foreign investor and a history of rule of law. China is entirely without this track record which is why foreign investment keeps dropping off.

Academic_Wafer5293

It's the correct perspective, which is why TSLA stock is slumping. It's not US competitors they're worried about, it's BYD. That's why Elon asked for huge tariffs on Chinese imported cars (after non-stop praising the Chinese and shitting on America when he was expanding there). [https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-ceo-musk-chinese-ev-firms-will-demolish-rivals-without-trade-barriers-2024-01-25/](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-ceo-musk-chinese-ev-firms-will-demolish-rivals-without-trade-barriers-2024-01-25/)

cookingboy

>A lot of the Chinese Tesla staff are working for BYD. What do you mean by that? Do you have any details you can share? M

-OptimisticNihilism-

I mean Tesla was struggling with labor and pesky things like osha at his California plants. He went to china and was able to build his plant where labor was cheap and used to working well over 40 hours a week. Then lobbied to get the CCP to adopt a lot of pro EV regulations similar to those in California. It was one of the drivers to the stock skyrocketing. But the CCP isn’t all about benefiting private US companies. They let Tesla train an EV workforce, and that workforce is being encouraged to move to Chinese EV makers as they get going. In Q4 2023 BYD sold more cars than Tesla globally for the first time and is expected to start pulling away.

_hiddenscout

You are welcome to think whatever you want, but there's still a lot of unknowns with EV's and even TSLAs. The reality is that in most cases, for EV makers, they are going to be in a race to the bottom in terms of pricing. Even in terms of apprication of your vehicle, you are in theory, now down at least 33% in a year of owning your vehicle: [https://www.cargurus.com/research/price-trends/Tesla-m112?entityIds=m112,Index&startDate=1700121600000&endDate=1713423599999](https://www.cargurus.com/research/price-trends/Tesla-m112?entityIds=m112,Index&startDate=1700121600000&endDate=1713423599999) Even TSLA just killed off their cheaper car because they are getting beat by BYD: [https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-scraps-low-cost-car-plans-amid-fierce-chinese-ev-competition-2024-04-05/](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-scraps-low-cost-car-plans-amid-fierce-chinese-ev-competition-2024-04-05/) I want to EV's to win, but in reality, there is a still a lot going against them and a lot of open questions. [https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/04/why-hybrid-sales-surge-as-ev-sales-flatten.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/04/why-hybrid-sales-surge-as-ev-sales-flatten.html) >Hybrid sales grew five times faster than EV sales in February 2024, according to Morgan Stanley. >

canal_boys

Same thing happened with Japan back in the days. Not sure what changed, but now Japanese cars dominate the U.S market. Wonder if in 20 years, BYD will be like Toyota in the U.S.

Danpackham

I know China=bad. But considering all this Tesla malarkey, and considering you can find ‘made in China’ on half of the things you own, my BYD shares are gonna let me retire at 30, unless China starts WW3. But that doesn’t matter because I wouldn’t make it to 30 in that case. It’s a win win

wpglorify

Apart from Tesla, the Only other car manufacturer making money on electric cars in the world is BYD and that too after big support from the Chinese govt. Elon isn't a Messiah but if anyone thinks Telsa could have done better without Elon or will do better without him is delusional.

Human-Reputation-954

Not just could. Will. We cannot allow what is actually a hostile government to dominate this emerging field. A lot of the Chinese Tesla staff are working for BYD. We play checkers and China is playing Chess. That technology was developed largely with US government funding. How stupid are we to give away yet more industries to China of all places. Even Janet Yellen has changed her tune and that’s a goddamn miracle. Furthermore you aren’t looking at the full environmental impact of the electric car. Do a deep dive on that one. One problem solved but ten more created. No easy solutions here

vincococka

**BYD and other Chinese companies are willing to sell cheap electric cars because they are selling/creating network of sensors/agents on roads - nonsstop communicating cars with "alibaba cloud", voice control, 24/7 recording etc...**

anontalk

Which country in europe is BYD dominating in sales?

thehomiemoth

Why are BYD and other Chinese companies the only ones willing to make affordable EVs? In what world did all these car companies think *truck buyers* and *ev buyers* were a particularly overlapping demographic? Just sell a shitload of small EVs, stop using all your available battery resources to make F150 lightinings and cybertrucks. How many people who drive F150s even believe in climate change?

Fantastic_Tiger_9000

#BYD > dog shite tesla

bawtatron2000

ooo...yeah, my bad on BYD. complete ignorance on my part. Mercedes' tech is outstanding, much better than TSLA in a lot of areas, but my understanding is that isn't done in house, for example SOUN does the voice recognition. Is Mercedes developing AI? I'm no TSLA fanboi, but i grow tired of the "this stock is worth $5" crowd based on personal feelings around Elon. I personally don't think the 37% it's sitting at right now is high given the potential. I've historically always thought it's overvalued. IF they deliver on the promises, then I think it's undervalued, but clearly the price reflects nobody has confidence in them, which is valid. I could see it hitting $120 and somewhere in 18 months going to $300 if they deliver on the new car and get the factories sorted out. One thing is certain, it's going to be interesting

aleksander-595

Lol Xpeng now registration is less than Nio almost half, while Nio is doing terrible sells more expensive cars at least, not ugly cars, and Xpeng has even hybrid not full EV for sale, still doesn’t have even 1% of the market in China, how is going to explode then, when BYD is killing the EV game with Denza as an premium cars, and all other type of EVs now even came with a new premium cars, and the expansion in other countries is outrageous, every month new markets

balikbayan21

Played with this, BYD (Buffet part owner), Geely, and Nio. They just started selling into Europe where they are dominating sales.  These companies are building factories in Mexico to circumvent restrictions and sell to the US market. If they compete here, TSLA, Lucid, and Rivian are f#ckd on cost alone 

AluminiumCaffeine

BYD is around 16ish or so with the china discount so 20 doesnt seem crazy for tsla to me, although BYD growth is still expected to be solid whereas tesla is flagging harder

dideldidum

>Reuters recently reported that Tesla has set aside plans to make a more affordable new EV at Musk’s direction. The strategy shift includes a greater focus on developing a “robotaxi” and comes amid steep competition including from BYD and other Chinese automakers with more affordable electric cars. Ahahahahaha, Musk is really trying everything to go bancrupt.

wuy3

Business isn't booming because BYD from china is dumping EV inventory across the globe. Tesla's were overpriced though, so what we are seeing is (somewhat) efficient markets in action.

AmericanSahara

LLY, or maybe BYD if tariffs are gone.

aihes

Chain reaction or worried about truth social teaming up with BYD

tonsofplants

Their is no competition besides BYD and it will be blocked from US and potentially rest of NAFTA market. Layoffs were strategic and will probably lead to better EPS. Most on reddit are super negative on Tesla because of Elon's antics, but if you actually look at the company and its positioning its all noise with no substance.

CouncilmanRickPrime

Yup BYD is in position to eat their lunch outside of the US. They should stop playing around with distractions and work towards a cheaper but profitable car. Cybertruck, FSD, and robots are just distractions.

Suckmeasiroll

BYD Company

SuperSultan

Competition has already occurred. BYD is already causing a lot of trouble for Tesla. It also doesn’t help that other automakers are coming up with their own electric vehicles even if they’re not that great compared to a Tesla yet. Musk should’ve just focused on his main Tesla models and not that horrific cyber truck. Sheesh. As for growth, I think Tesla will still grow but at a much more normal clip for a car company because that’s what it ultimately is. Reversion to the mean is afflicting Tesla currently.

SnuffleWarrior

Rivian really has no future. They're a niche player in a market that will eventually get swallowed by the major manufacturers including BYD. No profitability, no network and no money.

xpandaofdeathx

I want to buy a BYD

Savings_Bug_3320

Dude he is trying to put his competition out of business, that’s why he is dropping the electric car prices like crazy as BYD(Berkshire Hathaway) coming in the market. Since he has dropped prices of Tesla, Rivian and other Microsoft backed electric car company has filed for bankruptcy!!

newwobblywheeler

Impossible that BB will go bankrupt. This is the narrative the cornered shorts at 64M (NYSE+TXS) shares greater than 12% which is more than in Jan 2021. As of Feb 29 2024: It has cash of $298M enough for long run...as cash flow burn has been down from Q2 $56M to Q3 $31M to Q4 $15M. Accounts receivables of $255M QNX royalty at $815M which is yoy of 27%. Cost savings of $105M for this fiscal year. AMD chips shipping for robotics with QNX. ETAS (branch of Bosch) using QNX. BYD uses QNX. QNX 7 and 8 allow IVY (BB+ AWS JV) and QNX Sound on top of it. To date to 2023....260M cars have QNX....not QNX is used both in EV and ICE vehicles.

seawaterGlugger

It’s not just him being a dumbass and alienating his consumer base. They haven’t updated their lineup and other electric car manufacturers are catching up. BYD is going to eat up their market share worldwide even if Biden bans them in the US.

Inconsistent_Unicorn

Anyone buying BYD $1211 (the Chineese ev manufacturer)? With their expansion to the EU market and the new battery tech, it seems like a good investment, but so did $NIO...

Chance-Progress-7356

The question isn't who is partnering with Blackberry. It's who isn't a Blackberry partner: Amazon AMD ETAS-Bosh Nivida Setallentis Foxconn Mitsubishi Michellen Tires Xpeng BYD Xiaomi. Apple pulled the plug on the electric car. Blackberry forged a partnership with Foxconn and in 2025 Foxconn is rolling out EV's with IVY software inside. Setallentis already started shipping EV's with intelligent car software by AWS Blackberry IVY . Apple spent 10 years and 10 billion. Amazon is not pulling the plug on IVY Intelligent car Platform and Setallentis teaming up with them and delivering explosive revenue growth. 

phatelectribe

I think it’ll be like mobiles phones soon, where developing countries skipped landlines as the cost came down. BYD (etc) are going to start pumping out cheaper and cheaper Evs and you’ll see massive uptake of these.

Chance-Progress-7356

When Amazon AWS CEO Andy Jassy was looking  to make intelligent car platform that's secure innovative and it's inside millions of cars he selected Blackberry and IVY was created in partnership with Blackberry. Andy Jassy picked Blackberry because they were adding software in millions of cars. Today Blackberry software is inside 230 million cars and adding 20 million more annually. AWS Blackberry partnership was brilliant farsighted move. Today Michellen Tires Setallentis Mitsubishi Electronics Foxconn Xpeng Xiaomi BYD and so many others use Blackberry QNX technology. From smart phones to smart cars Blackberry is an innovation icon. For 40 years Blackberry technology and innovation changed the world technology for the better and made our world a better world. Smart phones, instant messenger, smart car software and robotics technology innovation. In the 90's medical staff and on call surgeons carried a pager to respond to hospital calls. Today Blackberry software is going into AMD's Robots for medical devices for precision and accuracy safety. When Lisa Su CEO of AMD wanted to advance Robotics she relied on Blackberry innovative software technology and picked QNX. The world today is not the same it's moving forward and Blackberry is a part of this innovation and iconic progress. 

Notorious544d

That's because ChatGPT 3.0 was open sourced. TSLA FSD is closed sourced. Also, chatbot LLMs use the internet as it's only data, which is transparent and accessible. Even if BYD got a copy of the model, they wouldn't have the data. How do you 'get' 1 billion miles of driving data quicker than TSLA?

Ducatidude21

Same way Elon came up with grok ai and many companies have copied chat gpt. They’ll figure it out. BYD is killing it in Asian market. Tesla was for early adopters of tech, others will scale better with less r&d costs

Chance-Progress-7356

What in the world is AMD doing with Blackberry. Xpeng impressive EV sales and Foxconn now making EV with Blackberry QNX inside. AWS Blackberry QNX and Setallentis teaming up on smart car software. Setallentis just had a blowout year in 2023 revenue growth explosive sales and CEO Carlos Tavares salary jumped to 39 million from 29 million. Why AMD Amazon Nvidia Foxconn BYD Bosh partnering with Blackberry. 

SuperSultan

Tesla is about to have its lunch eaten by Chinese EV companies such as BYD, yet Elon is too busy playing games. Things are a lot more competitive than they were a few years ago.

Valvador

> but couldn’t he consolidate other things he’s working on under Tesla in the future? Like what? Do you have some specific in mind that would do well under the Tesla flag? Why would they? When you run a business, expanding your market comes with risk of moving away from already what you know how to do. It only makes sense if you are pivoting into something that requires similar operations (BYD moving from Car Battery to making Cars, for example). Do you have something in mind, or are you just treating Elon as special and expecting him to pull something out of his ass to save the company? You've been calling people out in other parts of this thread as "you just don't like Elon, huh", but based on your responses it seems like you really like him? It might be worth taking a step back and re-evaluate why, and whether you should be making financial decisions on that hunch.

Kayshift

Yup. You can buy a BYD EV for 14k in Mexico for 13k. Multiple brands.

jepatrick

Tesla is massively overvalued. Ford, Toyota, Honda, GM, BMW, VW, Hyundai combine are worth less than Teslas market cap. BYD is eating Teslas lunch in China and starting to move into EU. And the trade credits in the US are starting to go to other companies. Also Elon is a nut sack. As more auto companies make EVs the trade credits will be worth less.

dismendie

Depending on the case to be bearish… Tesla might have more margin crushing… like BYD coming into USA market even with import fees and being cheaper than Tesla… or they get sued and made to fix their promo of self driving… or unionization of their members… I think workers for Tesla gets only half of big union members for manufacturing in the USA… they above offer no dividend so you are basically in it to flip the stock or hope for dividends… they might shot up if they get driverless tech up to full autonomy… BA has a huge long term management issue that now two ceo has failed… they might take a decade to fix… looking at GE… but again I don’t have a crystal ball… the question can be rephrased to opportunity cost… would the 2.5k which I think is 100% of your investing account be better off somewhere else… and looking at market cap of Tesla is their actual room to grow into that market cap? At one point it was worth more than all the car manufacturing combined… I don’t have answer and money is yours to use… I have been profitable on Tesla stocks…

dismendie

None of the above three stocks bro… look at the charts… and the investment cases for them… look at the bull vs bear case… read about grey market weed… I would buy index with only 2.5k… when you get like over 100k-200k then maybe think about risker bets… and maybe a single position with worth less than 5% maybe is worth it… Telsa is getting crushed in margins… BYD is almost everywhere… Boeing has management problems since its merger and it’s not looking better in the short to mid term… and weed stocks… I dunno if I was going into sin stocks I would just buy atria MO with good dividends and if anything they can jump right into weed production… but if I had to get one of the three… it would probably be Tesla…

CaliSummerDream

Only Ford is actually serious about the EV transition. They may be the only legacy automaker that survives the next 10 years. Sure the ICE car industry is only slowly declining as EVs tick up in market share, but ultimately gas cars will be used primarily for towing and for cold climates. EVs will always have shorter range but there will be charging infrastructure everywhere. Politics can slow down the transition and buy Detroit and Japan some time but they are going to drag their feet because they want to keep milking the cash cow instead of investing in the future. I hate Elon Musk but he really showed us that household EVs could be a reality. And BYD proved that they will be the reality.

Speakingfaxx

I have 1000 shares 125.00 get to 500 or 1000 and leave it in there for 5 years then come back here and ask again :) Tesla and BYD you can’t go wrong. Remember though, the mind of Elon musk is very creative and he will create more in the future.

WTFspy

Tesla won't exist in 15 years They'll be sold for scrap to BYD

pusicooo

Model 2. Tesla need to fight with BYD in south east asia.

MajorHubbub

BYD is gonna fuck TSLA's long term goal of mass producing cheap EVs

McGunnery

Be more concerned about BYD being fully integrated. Tesla’s going to lose that fight.

TheLoungeKnows

Lmao. Ya, Tesla has issues. That’s not something unique to Tesla. Literally every car has all kinds of reports from owners of horrible failures. Read the Cadillac Lyriq subreddit. It’s a right of passage in there to have horrific, unfixable problems. Stopped reading your diary entry at the point when you implied we don’t know how significant the issues are because Tesla isn’t transparent. What a regard comment. Does Rivian, Ford, Mercedes, BYD or anyone else publish statistics on their bricked cars? NO. Good day fellow regard. Head to REALTESLA if you want to get stroked off by typing illogical comments about Tesla.

Many-Mess3899

Elon couldn’t compete with BYD so instead he went to go compete against Abdul the taxi driver 😂😂😂

ThinkingOfTheOldDays

I'd rather own BYD & Toyota stock, among others.

Antique-Flight-5358

Living in Singapore everyone is changing to EV. Just look at BYD sales numbers. I see them around every corner. Thailand has swappable batteries for scooters which need more adaptation. We don't have enough lithium. The world needs to stop fossil fuels. We need lithium to store all the renewable energy until it's used. Like el nino is over and it's 40C in Singapore. We are killing the planet.

NaiveFroyo4152

A proper CEO would start by converting Elon's hype into a realistic assessment of their prospects which would be catastrophic to the share price. At the luxury end there's lots of competition now even excess capacity and at the mass market BYD is taking them to the cleaners with real battery innovations and Hybrid 2.0.  You're right it should be priced like a car company but I'd add one with massive legal liabilities from all the vapour ware stock promotes "Full Self Driving" etc etc and no new models because it's been starved of CAPEX. Discl I own 52,500 Dec 2025 $60 strike put options which I plan to exercise on expiry. I feel like $20/share is the bull case.

sofa_king_weetawded

>25k model y, beating BYD in Asian market, etc Lmfao! I am selling CSPs also, but I hope you're not banking on either of those happening.

Dosimetry4Ever

TSLA can grow on other developments too: Robotaxi, house robots, $25k model y, beating BYD in Asian market, etc The company def has a ton of potential and now is a good time to get in and hold

f00dl3

I don't think this will happen unless they allow BYD here

WTFspy

> Analyst on Tesla: The $25k EV car exists today. BYD makes it

YamYam4747

To everyone buying tesla. Do you think Musk’s tweets about how cool autonomous robo taxi’s are gonna be are gonna change the fundamentals. Tesla is losing ground in Europe to european brands(volvo), losing ground in china to BYD, losing ground in US to ford and GM. The cost of used teslas has halved in the last year. Why buy a new Tesla??? Cyber trucks are breaking down a month off the lot. He’s now trying to push into India( a country with virtually no charging network) because he sees a decline in other markets. How many times has he promised robo taxi’s only fro it to be pushed back. In addition even if robo taxi’s are introduced, its gonna take a long time to roll out. Think is the insurance cost that municipalities might start charging for perceived increased risk. Local governments will have a say if they are even allowed in their cities. Don't be fooled by musk, he’s a liar, and always drops some amazing news when his stock is dropping.

Teembeau

Why would China now invade Taiwan, and why didn't it for the past 75 years? Something to get a grip on in terms of investing is that the mainstream media is a branch of the entertainment industry. It's not serious analysis. It exists to keep you watching, to watch ads between what is being said, so it better make you laugh or scare you. No-one at CNN is going to bring on a "specialist" who says that Gaza is just a load of game playing by Iran to disrupt some diplomatic links between Saudi Arabia and Israel. They're going to tell you that it's going to be leading to war in the region, and we have some more about this after the break. If China invaded Taiwan, it would gain some not particularly good land, and some forests. Everyone working in tech would be out of there. And it would lose every bit of manufacturing to the west. Every company would try and move out of there and into somewhere else to make iPhones etc. People would not want to buy BYD cars. It would be catastrophic for the industrial sector of the Chinese economy. China would see it's GDP fall by 30-50%. Is it possible? Well, maybe. But that's the thing with stocks. All sorts of things are possible. It's likelihood that matters

bartturner

It is NOT just BYD. I went to the auto show in Bangkok earlier this week and there is so many different really nice looking Chinese EVs. Plus new ones popping up all the time. It is going to be a very difficult time for Tesla. The best thing going for them is that face the Chinese are not able to sell their cars in the US.

rocketloot

Tesla already can’t beat BYD, NIO and many more for low end. Xiaomi is coming too. Doubt Rivn will be profitable. The high end will be eaten by Porsche

Andrew_Higginbottom

Thanks. I never knew that about BYD

laberdog

Because the free money days are long gone for Tesla. Hasn’t grown now in years and is active tanking. Hasn’t come close to the all time high in 2021 meanwhile the competition has out performed like BYD.

rinderblock

The Chinese government won’t allow BYD to fold. It’s like what we do with the big three just to a different degree. Waiting for BYD to fold would essentially be waiting for one of chinas largest manufacturers of things to fold with the support of the government behind them. While teslas own support from the US government is waning due to musks weird behavior. Baaaaaaad idea.

Andrew_Higginbottom

Isn't BYD running at a loss? If so, isn't it wise to pull your money out of the market to step back and let the competition burn itself out ..then turn back on the production line when they're gone.?

driesketeer

BYD is heavily subsidised and will wreck car markets. Unless EU and USA keep or increase tarrifs to protect their market.

DrunkRespondent

You're forgetting one huge crucial factor. The US government would never, ever allow BYD to get a foothold in the US.

avatarfire

Lmao they are trying to get into the ridesharing model business? They’re way behind BYD

fenriswulfwsb

First, car companies aren't ceding the EV market. Every major car company is releasing EV models now or in the near future. They just know that there is an intrinsic cap to the EV market until our energy infrastracture sector makes significant strides in the fossil fuel transition and they don't want to oversupply a limited market. Even if they were "ceding", it would be to BYD, not Tesla, who can straight up out compete them on cost and production capacity. Cathie is touting high margins on all Tesla does because she assumes near monopoly status and a competitive moat. There is no way Tesla maintains margins at the levels she is putting forward if other folks have a viable competitive product. I don't see them having a moat on any of these ventures as there are many folks already ahead of them (or at least even) in everything Elon is shilling. This is literally what is crippling them in cars now; they are no longer the only option and they are hemorrhaging market share. It will happen on everything else as well. The only exception might be charging networks but those are going to be government regulated as a utility and I doubt will be allowed to operate with the absurd margins Cathie is predicting. Position: $30k+ in puts for April 26th.

EuthanizeArty

I remember when BYD surpassed Tesla in 2023 Q3 for the first quarter, that was all over the news. Media is much quieter when Tesla comes back on top.

EuthanizeArty

The "other automakers" were never in the picture. It was always between BYD and Tesla and BYD is also fully committed to EVs. The "other automakers" make inferior products

crazyeyezkillab

There are no $15k or $10k BYD cars in Europe.

gaslighterhavoc

Yup, just looks like a shiny bauble to distract the idiots from noticing that Tesla is backing off plans to make the $25K Model 2. That Cybertruck really turned out to be costly for Tesla. The time to make a $25K car was 3 years ago, not now when BYD is making sub-$13K cars (and prices dropping every month).

Altruistic_Finger669

US has far more tax standards than Europe. And BYD sells fine in europe

Massive_Confusion_23

Oh yeah. and I only bought 1K worth at the time. I think I paid $19 a share. I also bought BYD in China back then. Time will tell

Master_Chief_1480

BYD is going to take Teslas lunch once they start selling internationally.

tonsofplants

This is great news, low cost cars have lower profit margins. How is Tesla going to compete with BYD on low cost EV market? I don't think they can really compete it would be a money losing proposition. Focus on quality control, brand, and mid to high range cars with higher profit margins.

revenger3833726

As long as Musk keeps making empty promises the price can keep pumping high. I drive a model y. It's a great car, but looking for a 2nd EV. Something smaller and cheaper isn't available with tesla so BYD is a better option.

Zestyclose-Pay-4588

this is the mother of all hail maries. we just got confirmation that the auto business is ruined. those 30% margins from 2021 are gone. the reuters article was never refuted---he cannot build a 25k car profitably. which also means his revolutionary unboxed manufacturing process (designed to save big $$ in production costs) does not work (like every other auto mfg would tell you). the battery business is a 1x earnings business. ask LG or panasonic. the supercharger is a utility business. see your local utility valuation. robots: ask boston scientific about their market size. now robotaxis: so lets start with the premise that this will have a better chance of finding a market in a rich country than a poor one. and every one i've ever been to valued the jobs that drivers had. so, not a good chance that those politicians will allow in an unproven software from a low-credibility CEO to kill local jobs. so, his chances of getting it introduced are best where he has skin in the country: Germany? --eco terrorists hit his factory for the reported water supply violations. check and see. no chance they'll approve. same for rest of europe China? --they dont allow his cars on govt' property (which is why his sales there are falling, and why he's cutting factory production by 1.5d / week. govt and citizenry have a lot of local pride (the rise of BYD, for ex). --think they're going to approve? and then the US: CA and TX. CA hates him, no chance. TX? thats his only poss market over the next 2 years. best case. and there's the whole federal DOT to clear. liability ?s if (when...:) there's accidents. 2 other places might approve: India & MEX. notably, both want FDI from elon. but if you've ever been to either, you'd know the market size there (small, as they're poor) and local dynamics would probably see a lot of ricksha drivers sabotage these cars if they're the road, save local jobs the local way. or maybe its something else. like, we're getting to the wizard of oz moment when dorothy goes behind the stage. maybe thats why the CFO and the head of the dojo computer both quit a mere 6 months ago. maybe they knew the wheels were gonna fall off, and they'd rather liquidate their options and unlock dynastic wealth than stick around and watch elon go down with the ship. just maybe. but hey, elon's never exaggerated anything before huh? (this is why the notion of OEMs using his software is a joke. yeah, mary barra is gonna trust her customers' safety to FSD from elon? fat chance). target value: $40-60/sh.

Melthengylf

BYD

Yodas_Ear

Literally never heard of this BYD. And their website looks like they sell vapor ware.

EuthanizeArty

Well, the cars remain profitable, as opposed to everyone else in the industry except for BYD. Sure volume dropped a bit this quarter- and so did BYD's, which took a much bigger hit The company still has minimal debt and plenty of cash- as opposed to GM or VW. And then looking at Ford cutting the F150 lightning production and workforce by more than half- yeah I'd say we're doing alright. Ford and GM cutting EV outputs for now to chase short termprofits on hybrids is a debt they will pay in 3-5 years.

Sanchezed

And they took their spot back from [BYD](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/byd-may-hand-back-top-ev-seller-title-tesla-after-q1-sales-decline-2024-04-02/)

Saxman7321

China is going to overtake the world in EVs. BYD is already the largest EV company by sales in the world and they have many other EV manufacturers like Nio and Xpeng that are large and smaller companies that manufacture $10k cars. There are more people in China in the next 8 to 10 yrs that will reach driving age than the entire population of the US. There a lot of cars to sell.

CouncilmanRickPrime

He can't possibly make a car at $14k. BYD already has. There's no beating China on price.

bilyl

At this rate shareholders should demand that Tesla spin off the AI/robotics projects into newer, leaner companies. The company should slash everything that's not required to compete with BYD.

roneyxcx

You are using adjacent quarters hence why it is lower. BYD YoY at Q1 had higher sales than last year. You can go check BYD's sales and they always have the lowest sales at Q1 due to Chinese New Year. BYD is also hit more than Tesla because they only export some \~10% of their volume.

KrazyKraka

BYD sales were up 14% in Q1. Down sequentially because of Chinese New Year

Useful-Arugula338

BYD making cars in Mexico will mean they will eat up a lot of competition if the “Free Market” of the United States stays “free”