BYD

SpicyElixer

The US isn’t going to let BYD in regardless of where it’s built. The laws are designed to not allow it even if it’s built in Mexico, especially with Chinese components.

Pitiful-Recover-3747

The BYD Shark is what all the U.S. truck manufacturers should have done. Trucks awesome. Ive driven one around in the Philippines and can’t wait to buy one when I go back. And it’s HALF the price of a tundra.

lmaccaro

This is why I invested in Tesla early. The big3 cannot compete and cannot pivot. If you’ve ever worked at a large old legacy company - middle management and upper management and even senior engineering is all boomers or older and they DO NOT want change or learning something new. They want to rest and retire wealthy with as little inconvenience as possible along the way. The CEO can try to force change but it’s going to be like molasses, and all those stodgy old people will slow it down, shit on it, make it fail, all so they can say SEE we never should have tried anything new. The only solution is to start a new company from scratch, fill it with people who are locked in on the goals of that company, and use it to put the legacy company 6 feet under. And if it’s not Tesla that does that to Ford, it’s going to be BYD.

Y0tsuya

I'm addressing your last sentence regarding EV market in rest of the planet which is currently dominated by Chinese mfgs. CCP is not all powerful. They couldn't save the real estate market and they won't be able to save the EV mfgs. There's significant amount of angst already among the mfgs. Even BYD is having trouble paying its suppliers.

ChippewaBarr

? I'm not talking about the Chinese EVs (but the CCP backing def doesn't hurt them). They will experience massive consolidation at some point no doubt but brands like BYD and Seely ain't going nowhere. There's plenty of legacy automakers on the planet making great EV and ICE vehicles - North America as a whole just has rejected them for the time being.

Bamstradamus

Personally I actively want an EV but between cost and the fact I live in an apartment and can only charge at paid stations *ones at work arnt free* If I could get a BYD or something for 20kish it would be worth considering as a commuter vehicle but my current life isnt condusive to 2 cars where one is an inconvenience AND doesnt really save me money. I genuinely dont understand how people can accept this is not an actual fit for some people, thered be some argument if we had solid state batteries with over 1k miles of range so apartment livers only need to charge once a month depending on your commute, or hot swappable batteries so they could pull in, pay 30-40 bucks and have a full charge in 10-15 minutes keeping it atleast at parity with gas prices but this isnt a world that exists yet.

flecom

I would love to buy an EV, but $120k for a lighting? Ya no thanks I would buy a BYD in a heartbeat, but thats why they are banned...

qwhaa

The BYD Shark is selling like crazy in Australia

BucDan

Copying BYD Shark basically. It could work.

Kranoath

Is this the same BYD selling cars at a loss, supported by the Chinese government and has over 30 billion in hidden debt? Still remember all the talk about how the Chinese were going to destroy Apple with their better and cheaper phones 🤩🤣

ShittyUsernane1222

TSLA stocks are overvalued. Especially when companies like BYD and XPENG are in close competition and just as successful or hell even more successful as senior mecha-hitler creator elon musk.

SomewhereOpposite883

Europeans complain about dumping when BYD is selling their cars at DOUBLE the price they do in China It's just another word for cope

dalooooongway

please explain how TSLA ATH?? Their cars blow chunks. BYD new best friend

Worried_Quarter469

Meanwhile, average car transaction prices have fallen, with BYD’s slipping from 116,200 yuan ($16,480) in June to 108,100 yuan in October

ButterPotatoHead

China overtook the U.S. as the world’s largest manufacturer around 2010. China has been the largest exporter globally since 2009. China has built the largest high-speed rail network in the world. China produces 80–90% of the world’s solar panels. China is the largest EV market and has more EV charging stations than the U.S. BYD is becoming dominant in many markets in the world besides the US. China has more 5G base stations and subscribers than the U.S. China has market leaders in FinTech and payment networks like Alipay and WeChat. Most Americans perceive Chinese products as cheap crap that you buy at WalMart and Target. Which buy the way source 80%+ of their products from China. But China also has many higher tech, higher value products in steel, payments, electronics, and other sectors. China will never compete with entertainment or certain aspects of technology but they're dominant in numerous other sectors.

kal14144

>Huawei and Apple both exist. Yeah. But blackberry doesn’t. And the speed tesla is losing market share literally everywhere it’s not illegal to sell BYD doesn’t look like apple it looks like blackberry. >BYD is also fully funded by the Chinese government No it’s not. They’re just more vertically integrated and diversified than Tesla. The amount of subsidies/tax cuts/favorable loans they got is almost exactly the same as Tesla (and legacy auto also got a bunch). Turns out basically every country does industrial policy and in the US states do it too (tax cuts in exchange for building plants where we want them for example). >and mandated to drop EV prices across the world to dominate. Even if this were true (and it’s not) Tesla would still be fucked. You’d be able to yell “no fair” but that doesn’t make it not fucked. There is no path to Tesla being price competitive with BYD. That ship has sailed fair or not. >Tesla is still the leader because BYD copied them with FSD but FSD is a very different game. It’s really not a very different game. It’s fundamentally the same game. It’s autonomous driving software. Even if the algorithms worked very differently (and they don’t - it’s all machine learning on large models) it requires compute and sensors of similar cost to perform a similar function. >You can only play that game if you understand AI and compute at scale. Cool buzzwords! But no, Tesla has no significant qualitative advantage on AI. It does not have unique architecture that is way better than everyone. For many years it had a massive quantitive advantage. It had data nobody else had and could use that data to train its models. In AI training data is king. Tesla had the advantage here as nobody else could really collect large volumes of data. That’s now gone. BYD has lapped it in both quality and quantity. Even if Tesla was 10x as efficient in utilizing training data (and it’s not) that still wouldn’t save them. They don’t have magic sauce. They just **had** the best training set. They don’t anymore. That’s over. >Tesla has the edge and we will see it in at scale in 3-5 years Scale ironically is now Tesla’s downfall. It’s a cruel twist of fate. A couple of missteps by Tesla and now BYD did to them what they did to legacy auto.

dsbllr

Huawei and Apple both exist. BYD is also fully funded by the Chinese government and mandated to drop EV prices across the world to dominate. Tesla is still the leader because BYD copied them with FSD but FSD is a very different game. You can only play that game if you understand AI and compute at scale. Tesla has the edge and we will see it in at scale in 3-5 years

kal14144

BYD is now ahead of Tesla in both volume and profit margin and also has a pretty straightforward path to autonomy fairly soon (they collect a lot more data than Tesla and have more sensors). Tesla had a head start on every category against them but have lost all categories except being closer to full autonomy (though neither are there yet and BYD is progressing faster). Even if they do get to autonomy with a 1-2 year head start there’s now zero reason to believe they’ll stay there and have a moat. At best they’ll have a couple good years of sales while waiting for everyone else to catch up and surpass them. L4 is now solved by several different companies (Waymo, Baidu, AVRide, Zoox all have L4 systems on the road now) so even if they get there first of the manufacturers they’ll have no moat. The theoretical moat of LiDAR being too expensive is also gone now that prices have dropped to a few hundred dollars a pop.

carsonthecarsinogen

Other than China who is innovating in the EV space more than Tesla? I stopped following closely a while ago but iirc they are still among the most efficient EVs and best value in North America. FWIW, comparing CCP funded companies to Tesla is apples to oranges. They only function because China funds everything while America is actively trying to kill EVs. They’re still *the* ev brand. When you think EV it’s Tesla same way people still think of Google with search. FSD program still has massive potential, Optimus is promising and competitive, and they’re still a top contender when it comes to EV manufacturing speed and efficiency. Again, a lot of this could have changed recently as I don’t follow closely. But as of somewhat recently they were top 2 next to BYD in all these fronts.

BarbellPadawan

BYD

DuckTalesOohOoh

The US trade deficit began in the 70s. Europe's trade deficits began after China joined the WTO. Inflation exposed how bad it is. And they're letting BYD build EV assembly plants! lol

Swearwolfofwallst

BYD is crushing Europe at the moment from what I've read.

deflatable_ballsack

BYD has been opening factories and creating jobs everywhere. Instead, these goofballs would prefer to buy half the product at double the price and lose the jobs in the process. Atleast they are not as dumb as the Eurotards.

big_pizza

Mexico manufactures a lot of cars but there are no domestic automakers, so the only thing they should be concerned about would be manufacturing employment. Chinese companies like BYD agreed to open plants there to circumvent this issue, but the plans were halted due to...you know who.

ceddya

Can we stop pretending that government subsidies are the reason for BYD's success? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-10-17/byd-s-rise-has-been-driven-by-a-lot-more-than-just-subsidies The US should be investing in and improving its manufacturing industry if it wants to compete rather than forcing consumers into paying inflated prices due to manufacturing inefficiencies.

DONNIENARC0

It uses tariffs to prevent BYD from strangling out your domestic auto industry with artificially cheap prices, killing local jobs, then jacking the prices up on your consumers once they're finished.

hungover247365

If you've been to any major cities in China. You'd know. China is years ahead of the US in terms of tech applications and infrastructure. If the administration ever allows Xiaomi or BYD, Tesla would be down 50% in one trading day. Are they behind on how small they can make chip fabs? Yeah about 18 months. But how the fuck does that matter when it comes to application? BUY CHINESES STOCKS.

The_BakedCrusader

Invest in Chinese equities, fellow Americans. Alibaba better than Amazon. BYD better than Tesla. Li-Ning better than terrible Nike. America falter. China future.

sun_not_cold

Yes, I agree. BYD is hurting the Mexican automotive and manufacturing industries. Could be a major factor.

elpresidentedeljunta

I would argue, mainly because of the general sentiment currently being that car makers are in crisis and EV makers particularly affected. In China there is a ruthless price battle going on and there are simply to many producers of EV on the market which does not develop as fast as some people phantasized. This led to a slew of negative outlook articles. Objectively it´s undervalued. Mainly because in this absolute bloodbath market BYD is the biggest player by far and they do make reasonable profit despite the price war. So when the inevitable consolidation is through, they will be left standing towering over that market. Currently their expansion into europe seems to benefit from their constant presence in the news and the demise of Tesla. And if those articles prove anything, it is that BYD has simply become the benchmark for EV at this point. So the basic question is: Do you believe that EV will be the mode of transportation in the future? In that case, BYD is the play. It may well suffer - like currently pretty much all carmakers - but by 2030 it should be the Big Bad Wolf. My shares are well down and I am not adding, because I have a decent enough position as well as looking for additional plays in the market. But my personal opinion is that if you play the long game BYD is a must. My outlook at the market is, that just like the internet it was overhyped at first and will take a little longer to fully develop into the game changer it´s destined to be. ( I do also believe that the same will be true for AI, make of that what you will). That is in part driven by my attitude to prefer going into downbeaten markets which will inevitably see better days ahead. It simply makes more money.

type_error

Don’t get me wrong on BYD. The moment I smell a hint of a rumor it’s being let on the IS I’m loading the fuck up

DuckTalesOohOoh

If BYD is supposed to be the next best EV company, why is the stock so cheap?

Stussygiest

TESLA COPIED THE BLADE BATTERY SYSTEM FROM BYD!BYD SUPPLIES TESLA DUDE! ...but i guess you dont want to talk about that. You understand there are different target market right? Tesla started premium and worked down. BYD worked from low cost to premium. Once they dominated the low cost, they now have one of the most premium electric cars available (yangwang U7) that beats Tesla roadster. Xiaomi with their car that even FORD CEO bought and said its on another level for the price. Another impressive feat of BYD is their hybrid engine which no car manufacture compares. So who did they copy? CATL? They have the most advance battery available today. EV? No they didnt outright copy 100%, they even outright said if they cant copy internal combustion cars, they should invest and start EV decades ago and pave the way. Even if they did copy, you think giving blueprints to anyone and they can copy/ improve does not take skill/knowledge? The latest innovation in the EV space is modular battery/frame system so any car brand can build like lego, guess which country innovated that approach?

ComplexEntertainer13

You mean the BYD that never managed to make it into the west at scale pre-pandemic due to poor build quality and standards? That BYD? The BYD that magically improved on all metrics after western premium car companies expanded in China in the latter half of the 2010s. And brought the know how and manufacturing techniques with them? Chinese industry is the global master at scaling and improving something that already works. But when it comes to innovation from the ground up or creating completely new products. They are not nearly as proficient. That is why they have struggled with lithography equipment to such a degree. Despite it being prioritized due to national security and having money thrown at it. Because the western industry has never outsourced the building of the most advanced equipment to China. So rather than developing a local talent pool and industry know how that then local companies could benefit from. Which helps to jump start their local manufacturers.

Stussygiest

Please read about BYD and CATL history before you talk more jibberish. Thanks

dansdansy

Apple does what they do well but I wouldn't call them innovative aside from finding new ways to charge fees nowadays. I'm not talking about phones today but phones are a good example from like 10 years ago. Apple v ZTE/huawei, ZTE had great hardware for like a third of the price of apple, but apple had better security features, better camera, better software, etc. The US had to sanction them to keep from grabbing US marketshare and ZTE went under. BYD v TSLA is another one. TSLA led the way and BYD came in and undercut to the point where TSLA is in serious trouble if they don't innovate to justify the price difference. That's competition- but BYD, ZTE, Deepseek etc- all these companies get large direct subsidies form the government so they can charge lower prices and gain market share overseas.

99posse

BYD (-25%, bought at all time high) Promising company, IMO, with solid technology and a great future

Shibuya2023

thats why its universally bad. Do i want to buy shitty Ford and GM cars? I rather take a risk and buy BYD or Xiaomi.

TalkFormer155

A lot of the traditional US car manufacturers woes are from changing from ICE to BEV prematurely. They didn't miss the race they entered a market by completely dumping decades of R&D for traditional cars. They declared the ICE dead and the consumers told them otherwise. BYD exists largely because of government subsidies. It's easy to come out on top when you steal years of battery and tech research and then have every advantage a closed off economy like China's can offer.

Daleabbo

A lot of the traditional car manufacturers woes are purely because they did not want to switch from ICE to BEV. They missed the race start. Tesla was the rabbit who thaught it has such an unbeatable lead that it stopped for a sleep. China has vertical integrated companies like BYD where they have so many savings that normal car makers that the price will kill any competition without trying.

hk_bob

Hi. I have also invested in some Chinese EV companies. The ones that I am concentrating on are the ones that are profitable or near profitability, and that are doing well overseas. So that's BYD and Geely. Xiaomi also just turned profitable with the car division in the last quarter. I also bought stocks in Zeekr and XPeng, and while neither are profitable yet, if you check their latest sales and the trend for them, they are becoming profitable soon. Zeekr and XPeng are doing quite well in Australia, and I keep track of the Australian market because it's a developed western country, and they don't tariff Chinese EVs, so it gives a good idea of how western markets may potentially view specific Chinese EV brands and models. There are some 100 Chinese EV companies and a lot of them will go bankrupt, or will be forced to merge. My understanding is that the Chinese central government has structured the EV industry this way, to let them fight it out, and let the strong survive. So I think whoever comes out of the EV industry in China alive, will be that much stronger in the future. The group of automakers that I am not sure about, include Huawei and those auto companies that use Huawei's auto software. While my understanding is that Huawei cars are allowed to be sold in Europe, I'm not sure if there will be restrictions put up against Huawei in the future, so for now, I am staying clear of Huawei and also the auto companies that use Huawei software (ie. Seres cars). But if Huawei and the auto companies that use Huawei software take off in sales, and there is no EU restrictions or bans on them, you could be missing a good opportunity to make some money. Also see if you can buy an ETF that cover the Chinese EV market. This is a an ETF that covers the Chinese EV market, and it includes parts and suppliers, as well as a few of the frontline auto companies: https://www.globalxetfs.com.hk/funds/china-electric-vehicle-etf/. Not sure if this ETF is available where you live though.

MotorUseful7474

What about BYD? They’re inexpensive, luxurious and perfect for American streets. Oh wait, Daddy Elon won’t tolerate that

Senior-Preference678

Tesla's European registrations fell 48.5% year over year in October, while the overall electric vehicle (EV) market grew 33%. Chinese rival BYD saw European sales jump 207% in the same period.

Senior-Preference678

Tesla's European registrations fell 48.5% year over year in October, while the overall electric vehicle (EV) market grew 33%. Chinese rival BYD saw European sales jump 207% in the same period.

cwhitel

You know there is a positive bias to the user on most AI LLM’s? Mixed with your wording, I’m fairly sure I can get ChatGPT to tell me investing into BYD at £7 IS A 9/10 good idea…

Mustatan

That's kind of confirmational bias though. The huge majority of companies with PE ratio beyond a sensible range of even 5-15 that makes mathematical sense, they went then they crashed and burned afterward, so investors were smart if they got out. Even for growth stocks or tech stocks, the huge majority of them don't pan out or even if they do, they don't maintain anything close to with those kinds or profits. Most of the stocks in the AI bubble don't even have any way of coming close to profitability to meet their initial costs, including PLTR. And TSLA has no even remote realistic way to gain enough profit to meet a PE of 300, they're not even the top EV seller anymore, with the how BYD has gotten the top. (And soon VW's group and even Geely may surpass in EV's) Declining revenue and profit, now they even lost the carbon credits. And all the robotics, AI, FSD, flying cars, quantum whatever talk is pure speculation, and already other companies in that other space. So the valuation is stupid unrealistic, even with the most generous assumptions. Even Nvidia's valuation at a PE of 50-60 is bonkers and it's not near as bad as Tesla. The AI bubble is bad too and they're using circular based deals like ni a Ponzi scheme to sell GPU's but the market and investment returns not there. And now already more competition, not just Samsung or AMD, but TPU's, and now a bunch of new companies in China and even Europe making their own GPU's so they can't keep that price range. It's just TSLA PE and valuation is so extreme that they, and Palantir are in a special class of meme stock dumb. And saying "the market is future looking" is just more nonsense, someone can make that claim for literally any company inventing talking unicorns tomorrow and claim some unclear point in the future. The point is Tesla is not a new company, they've had years to show themselves and in the past few years and last 2 years especially, they've actually been underperforming and no longer even a growth company. With no realistic way of even dominating their own EV market anymore much less selling enough cars at enough profit to back up a PE that crazy high. The fact their stock market valuation is more than the top-selling 10 car companies combined, more than the EV leader (BYD), more than Toyota, VW or BMW that sell and actually profitable (including hybrids and EV's). To the rest of the world, this just shows the US stock market has gotten dangerously corrupt and full of dangerous speculation, just like in 1929 but worse now with the level of bad money out there. Fed policy, all that loose money in Covid helped caused a lot of this.

IndependentUsual7444

BYD already has more revenue yet is 1/10th the price

Concept-Plastic

TSLA UK sales drop 19%. Sold 4 cars in India vs 20k ( BYD ) Full porting TSLA calls

Random_Name532890

Cant believe people still see a future for this company. The customer base is gone, the new products are not coming, the existing products are being outclassed by BYD and the CEO is a mentally unstable addict extremist.

Traditional_Honey108

BYD taking share

ironmagnesiumzinc

I would agree in most cases like apple or google. Those have a quality track record and a fantastic underlying business. Teslas track record has been a product that has not been able to outcompete competition (eg BYD) in most international markets, cratering revenue/earnings, and a long track record of unfulfilled promises. And on top of that, you’re buying at a frankly ridiculous premium that no other tech company has

Significant-Term6407

Tesla is losing ground in the USA but the real competitive dynamics are seen in Europe as they are getting SLAUGHTERED by Chinese BYD

Significant-Term6407

Tesla is losing ground in the USA but the real competitive dynamics are seen in Europe as the are getting SLAUGHTERED by Chinese BYD

EmergencySpeaker4726

If elon has no competition, tsla can make some good profits, probably $10 to $15+:eps. But, he thinks while he's changing the world, the rest of the world are going to wait for him. He laughed at BYD and Waymo like they're not competition. He needs to operate and assume competition...not laugh like they don't exist

jamiroquaiwhywhywhy

There are literally 140 Chinese EV manufacturers, all racing to make the cheapest cars. “Involution”. A Chinese EV will do great, most likely BYD, and probably more than one, but it’s potentially late.

Additional-Cress-257

Indeed, Tesla's valuation seems somewhat unusual in the current market environment. While the company has achieved a leading position in the electric vehicle sector, as you mentioned, they still need more substantial technological progress in other areas such as autonomous driving, robotics, and artificial intelligence. The rise of competitors like BYD has also put pressure on Tesla. Because of this competitiveness, I think it's good for Tesla's technology. However, perhaps Tesla's investors aren't just focused on current performance and market capitalization, but are optimistic about future technological potential and market expansion. I think that while market capitalization fluctuations are unsettling, they are part of the market itself. The high-tech and innovation sector is always full of uncertainty. Have you invested in Tesla stock?

Tp_for_my_cornholio

If it fell by 50% it would still be a stretch for me. If they nailed robotaxis then what? Tack on Ubers market cap? That’s ~$180B. And I haven’t seen anything tangible on robotics or AI that would make me think they’ll be a leader there. Energy storage maybe? Again what is that market worth in mkt cap? So I don’t see anything except smoke and mirrors. They have the US EV market on lock, but that’s fairly mature right now and low growth. Also globally BYD has them there. So I just don’t see the math adding up to anywhere near what their current market cap.

StoryAndAHalf

BYD is so yesterday, we're all on BYN now.

CoughRock

if your business only advantage is on patent squatting instead out innovate the competitor. Just look at irobot roomba, they sit on their patent ass for decade and charge premium. When that expired, chinese competitor roborock/dreame/xiaomi come out strong, produce way more feature/better quality for lower price. Then chinese side lead the innovation by adopting lidar and mop/vacuum combo/base station cleaning first. All these features were later copied by roomba and they still lag behind. You dont see chinese robo vacuum manufacturer whine like us manufacturer. They keep on innovating at a faster rate know it will be reverse engineer and copies by western maker. BYD is another example that switch from copycat to leading innovation and have western car maker copies feature off it. Tik tok, the same thing, why do you think short and reel suddenly got promote hard after tik tok success. The only true moat is ever faster rate of innovation. Keep down play china as a copy cat only one trick pony is just bury your head in the sand and avoid looking at reality. Even in chinese ai front, they are able to open source and squeeze more performance out of more limited hardware while western dev copies feature and lagged behind in open source.

palindromic

he says as a robot climbs out of a BYD

Hockeyshot39

numbers with no sources...odd Tesla hasn't released sales numbers for October, so where are you getting this from? [EV sales - USA - Jan-Sept 2025 ](https://www.coxautoinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/Q3-2025-Kelley-Blue-Book-EV-Sales-Report.pdf) 1st - Tesla 451k 2nd - Chevy 87k then it dives down less and less by brand [Top 20 EV sales by brand Worldwide Jan-Sept 2025 ](https://cleantechnica.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/2025-09-World-Top-20-YTD-Brand-January-September-scaled.png) 1 - BYD ( they combine al car types so thier number would be less, but still 1st overall) 2 Tesla Tesla sold more than the top 3 European car makers Combined Only other American car company on there is Ford at 20th, selling 84% LESS than Tesla see how I used sources and facts to back up my statements? and didnt put random numbers/

Hockeyshot39

China doesn’t prove Tesla “lost favor” , it proves China is the most cut-throat EV market on Earth. Every foreign automaker gets hammered there. Tesla slipping in a market with 70+ domestic brands and nonstop price wars isn’t collapse its survival. And yes, BYD has overtaken Tesla in global BEV sales in 2025. That isn’t because Tesla is suddenly hated it’s because BYD is producing at China-scale with China-level subsidies and costs. If BYD could sell in the U.S., they’d be competitive here too, but every Chinese automaker is locked out due to tariffs, not because Tesla is “protected.” The robotaxi point doesn’t land either. No one has a scalable, profitable robotaxi network not Waymo, nit cruise, not Tesla. Saying Tesla “lost” a race that hasn’t even begun is just narrative building. As for “losing favor,” Tesla didn’t implode, they went two years with no new models while competitors launched 150+ EVs. That’s a product cycle slowdown, not a reputational death spiral. And the “they only survived on tax credits” talking point is wrong; credits have dropped massively while Tesla still posts higher auto margins than Ford, GM, VW, or Stellantis. Interpreting the present means looking at fundamentals, not vibes: BYD is surging, Tesla slowed because of an old lineup, and nothing suggests “cooked.”

Noseknowledge

China has tesla and sales are poorer than they were just months back whereas the US doesnt have BYD. That is data to infer from even after accounting for homefield advantage. The failure of tesla's robotaxi is it was annouced first half a decade ago(once again hype nonsense to manipulate the stock price) as "next year" and is now losing to its competitor. Yes they are #1 selling but look at their fall off in sales, they have lost favour which is all Tesla ever had going for it. "Lose money for the firm and I will be understanding. Lose a shred of reputation for the firm, and I will be ruthless" the piper is coming for Elon and his descent into madness is him avoiding it

Hockeyshot39

BYD isn’t “locked out” of the U.S. because Tesla is protected; every Chinese automaker is effectively blocked, and BYD itself has said the U.S. market isn’t worth entering due to politics and terrible margins. Also, they have Home Bill advantage in China like Tesla does in the United States, also BYD combines all their different types of cars into their total sales of their actual EV sales aren’t as ahead of Tesla as it looks on paper Tesla’s declines in Europe aren’t happening in a vacuum,Europe’s BEV growth has been slowing across the board as incentives are removed and interest rates stay high. Combine that with Tesla running two full years without a new model, and of course competitors with dozens of fresh nameplates are eating share. That’s a product-cycle issue, not a collapse. Yet still the Tesla model Y is a number one selling Eevee in Europe and Tesla model three is number two LMAO The “Tesla only survived on tax credits” line isn’t true either. Credits have shrunk massively and Tesla still posts automotive margins higher than Ford, GM, Stellantis, and VW. If credits vanished tomorrow, legacy OEMs would be in far worse shape than Tesla. Do you remember that the United States originally had any tax credits for the first 200,000 cars each company sold? Tesla blew through those insanely fast. And then even after that when they did not have the tax credit and other companies did, they still have sold them. Saying Elon “shifted to robots because he doesn’t care about EVs” ignores the obvious: Tesla is still expanding battery production, building new factories, and developing the next-gen platform. You can argue the robot project is overhyped, but it doesn’t mean the EV business stopped existing. And calling their cars “stale bumpers and headlights” misses why the Model Y is still the best-selling EV on Earth. Automakers run platforms for 7–10 years If it’s so Steele, why is the model Y the best selling electric vehicle in the world again? If this is what “cooked” looks like, leading model in global BEV sales, sector-leading margins, the largest fast-charging network, and positive profits while most competitors lose money, then every other EV maker is charcoal.

Noseknowledge

China has tesla and sales are poorer than they were whereas the US doesnt have BYD. That is data to infer from even after accounting for homefield advantage

Hockeyshot39

Yes BYD has home-field advantage in China, with many more customers than the US and Europe. But also BYD combines all their different types of cars into sales so while they are feeding Tesla overall in electric vehicle vehicles, it’s not as wide of a margin as it seems on paper. they’d outsell Tesla in the US if not for anticompetitive markets” doesn’t make sense. BYD doesn’t even want to sell in the US, they’ve said publicly they have no plans to enter because the margins here are terrible and the political climate is hostile to all Chinese automakers, not Tesla specific. As for “transportation is an awful business,” that’s true… for legacy automakers who operate at 2–5% margins and rely on dealers, incentives, and massive fixed-cost structures. Tesla’s margins, even after price cuts, are still higher than Ford, GM, Stellantis, BMW, and Mercedes on a per-vehicle basis. So no, Tesla isn’t Toyota 1995, but it’s not circling the drain with the ICE giants either. Waymo comparison is another category error. Waymo operates in limited geofenced ODDs with HD maps curated down to the centimeter. That’s not a mass-market, globally scalable system, it’s a great demo for constrained areas. Tesla’s entire FSD/robotaxi bet is the opposite approach (vision-based generalizable autonomy). You can say it won’t work, but comparing it to Waymo’s mapped sandbox doesn’t prove failure. And the “sales falling because of Elon’s antics in civilized countries” is an oversimplification You can dislike Tesla or Elon without rewriting the entire industry to fit the vibe. The Tesla model Y is the number one selling collector vehicle in Europe and the Tesla model three is number 2 LMAO.

iD-10T_usererror

"Smashing"? Tesla lost the #1 spot to BYD globally and Tesla can sell into China but BYD can't sell here in America. Even in that lopsided global market, with BYD locked out of the #2 market, Tesla is losing. Tesla sales are dropping in markets where overall sales are growing (e.g., Europe). The Tesla fan boys will keep saying things like "Tesla is still a solid #4 in sales" thinking it's a win. Meanwhile, Elon could care less about EVs and shifted the company focus to humanoid robots, which is a complete joke, there is no real market for, and there is no way they can make them work the way they are being presented by Elon. The only way Tesla was profitable was with government tax credits. Now those are gone. And despite all the promises of nonsense vaporware, all you can buy from them is the same old stale EV with a new looking bumper and headlights. This company is cooked.

Noseknowledge

BYD is already outselling them overall and would be in the US too if it wasn't an anitcompetitve market. They were first to market but keep in mind transportation especially personal is an awful business which is why traditional automakers stocks have been flat so long. Their only option for growing profits long term is pulling off robo taxis which they are failing in as well in all but the unregulated markets of a few states vs waymo. Their sales are also falling because of the ketamine cowboy's antics in civilized countries

callsonreddit

Pentagon Cited Alibaba on China Military Aid in Oct. 7 Memo >The Pentagon concluded that Alibaba Group Holding Ltd., Baidu Inc. and BYD Co. should be added to a list of companies that aid the Chinese military, according to a letter to Congress sent roughly three weeks before Donald Trump and Xi Jinping agreed to a broad trade truce. [https://finance.yahoo.com/news/pentagon-cited-alibaba-china-military-180926280.html](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/pentagon-cited-alibaba-china-military-180926280.html)

BruceInc

Except that’s literally not true even in the examples you brought up. BlackBerry dominated smartphones until Apple erased them. Yahoo ruled search and email until Google. MySpace was the social-media giant until Facebook. Blockbuster owned home video until Netflix. Netscape led browsers until Internet Explorer, and then Chrome showed up later and buried both. This pattern repeats every era of tech. Look at Xerox. They practically invented the modern computing principles, the GUI and the mouse and still got overtaken by Apple and Microsoft. Same with Palm Pilots. Same with Nokia. Same with Kodak. Being early didn’t save any of them. Want more modern examples? No problem. Snapchat got steamrolled by Instagram Stories. Uber Eats lost U.S. market dominance to DoorDash. Tesla is getting challenged globally by BYD and losing. Tumblr got eclipsed by Instagram and Twitter. Vine disappeared the moment competitors entered. The list goes on. The point is simple: the early leader isn’t automatically the long-term winner. Execution almost always beats being first. I’m not saying Nvidia is destined to become the next Yahoo or Blackberry, but pretending they’re immune to the same competitive dynamics that reshaped every other major market is wishful thinking. Their dominance is not as set in stone as you’re making it out to be.

ImprovementMain7109

I like the thesis but “storage” is a whole value chain, and most of it won’t earn great returns. Cells themselves are already on the path to being a semi-commodity, with China flooding capacity. That’s solar panels 2.0: great for the world, brutal for margins. If you just buy “battery = number go up” names you’re basically betting on timing a capacity cycle. Where I’d look first is the boring picks-and-shovels: power semis (inverters, onboard chargers, BMS chips), grid gear, software/controls, financing. The stuff that sits between the battery and the grid/car and takes a toll on every kWh moved. Those tend to have stickier customers, higher switching costs, and less direct price wars with CATL/BYD/etc. From a portfolio angle I’d treat this as a structural trend with cyclical guts. Size it like a theme you’re willing to ride through 50–70% drawdowns, not like a bond proxy. And be honest about what you’re buying: are you funding a science project, a commodity producer, or an actual tollbooth in the system.

Express-Net-9790

BYD is going to eat everyone alive

NanoRaccoon

BYD is a good hedge, production numbers are skyrocketing

barelyreadsenglish

Can't wait for when they announce BYD is allowed to be sold in US

efrew

Then let me clarify more. In the mega-cap (by market cap), Chinese tech is mostly China based. Exceptions are as above. I believe the companies I’ve picked are more cherry picked, they are literally all the big companies by market cap in the China tech space. Perhaps I’ve missed out on Baidu (mostly China), deepseek (mostly china). If you disagree, please give me some names I’ve missed. In other areas, yes. China is absolutely international. I am aware that China produces like 70-80% of the world’s microwaves. I wouldn’t be surprised if fridges, toasters and all are mostly produced in China. I understand China is leading in solar technology, likely battery technology so yes, it not ALL technology. Back to my clarification - it’s mega tech. I understand China is also biggest in EV too. BYD is a good example - but I count this as automobiles. I’m well aware of Popmart. China is leading there too but is not count it is as tech.

separatebaseball546

How does Berkshire Hathaway continue to win with the picks, they did the same thing BYD and pulled out at just the right time.

RealisticIllusions82

Waymo is not a consumer brand BYD competes in a completely different regulatory environment with near slave labor

barelyreadsenglish

Tesla (TSLA) Stock: October European Sales Plummet 48% as BYD Surges Ahead Still 1.3T market cap and 277 P/E

cxr_cxr2

“While BYD's (OTCPK:BYDDF) (OTCPK:BYDDY) sales in October increased 206.8% Y/Y to 17,470 units and held a 1.6% market share in October from 0.5% in the same month last year, Tesla's (TSLA) sales fell 48.5% from a year ago to 6,964 units and had a 0.6% share from 1.3% last year.”

Puk3s

Not going to refute your point on comparisons to other aerospace competitors because I don't know enough. My point there originally was that they make mistakes too. And for the car automation point I think a big part is just companies like BYD doing it cheaper. Not going to lie I'm not sure what the argument we are having is...

miata_only

$TSLA will be at interstellar💫 levels by the end of December. Melon🍉 is playing his 420-dimensional chess♟ and everyone that's bearish🐻 is stuck in their plain old X, Y, and Z cartesian coordinate system. We're about to see the new Giga Venezuela factory🏭 cranking out Cybertrucks faster than a Starship rocket could launch your mom into geosynchronous orbit🚀🚀. ALSO rumor has it battery day 🔋 in January is going to unveil a new plaid edition LiPo powered dildo that charges⚡ in 69 seconds AND comes with FSD (Full Self Dildoing) 🍆 and Cheetah mode. PLUS unlike companies in Gyna...cough cough BYD(eez nuts) 🥜...Easy E-Muskrat knows best how to run a capitalist business (aka cook the books 👨‍🍳📚).

NeighborhoodBest2944

Bro, best selling EV in China. Much higher price point to boot. Many BYD are hybrids. Are you comparing those as well?

OddMove2382

Yes that is true right now. That will change soon. Two major Chinese media outlets independent road tested Tesla FSD (and earlier version) and compared it with Chinese God's Eye BYD system. Both organizations rated the Tesla FSD far superior to the BYD systems. Tesla has billions and billions of miles fed into its neural networks over many years. It makes sense they are far ahead in this area. Waymo is geo-locked, no highways. Not comparable.

No_Assistance5652

Next week I will drive BYD cars and see if those are better than tsla or not.

WolverineSouth2227

I don't think that is true. He said that he would never invest in businesses he didn't understand. He was a major investor in Chinese car maker BYD and recently had invested heavily in Japan. So please do your research before misleading people

UpbeatWishbone9825

I’m in Australia, so I get to see first hand what the global EV market looks like, and BYD now outsells Tesla here. I own a Model 3 and MG4.

last-shower-cry-was

buffett and munger suffered 90% drawdowns TWICE with BYD. and STILL outperformed the market massively.

UpbeatWishbone9825

Have your ever driven a BYD, or many of the other companies that make fantastic EVs? So many options available at so many price points. The US EV market is so unlike the global one. Here in Australia, BYD is outselling Tesla massively.

UpbeatWishbone9825

BYD (and others), make really nice EVs now too. So many different price points available outside the US too.

Smurf_Crime_Scene

BYD

ensui67

Nope. It’s a BYD, Toyota and Tesla world. Everyone else is priced for extinction.

ubdumass

I will double down on your statements here. Tesla is not better than, never mind the best, in each category: EV (BYD), Driverless (Waymo), Solar and Storage (Any number of Chinese), AI (OpenAI and Google). Tesla might as well light billions on fire establishing a fab. There are many many car companies on earth. There is only one TSMC that can yield at sub- 2 nm. Just ask Intel, who’s been in the game for half-a-century. There is one potential scenario, which is to partner with US Gov’ and enforce export control on all things semiconductor, making Tesla de-facto US fab.

das_war_ein_Befehl

You can value things based on the actual goods and services that the company provides…? It’s a car company that sells cars, and they’re priced like a hypergrowth software company. It sells physical goods. None of the valuations or stock price make any objective sense. It’s losing market share globally and faces an existential threat from BYD and every other competitor

Icy_Pain424

Exactly, because when BYD is 0.0000001 you can buy it and then the stock will go back to 200$ and you are super rich 

TheSn00pster

Pretty sure BYD’s can buy themselves…

miata_only

$TSLA will be at interstellar💫 levels by the end of November. Melon🍉 is playing his 420-dimensional chess♟ and everyone that's bearish🐻 is stuck in their plain old X, Y, and Z cartesian coordinate system. We're about to see the new Giga Venezuela factory🏭 cranking out Cybertrucks faster than a Starship rocket could launch your mom into geosynchronous orbit🚀🚀. ALSO rumor has it battery day 🔋 in December is going to unveil a new plaid edition LiPo powered dildo that charges⚡ in 69 seconds AND comes with FSD (Full Self Dildoing) 🍆 and Cheetah mode. PLUS unlike companies in Gyna...cough cough BYD(eez nuts) 🥜...Easy E-Muskrat knows best how to run a capitalist business (aka cook the books 👨‍🍳📚).

ReturnoftheSpack

But not all BYDs are equal. They have various brands each specialising in different gaps of the market. So i would say it is unfair to compare a BYD to a Tesla that costs 20k brand new vs one that costs say 80k. There are also "luxury" brands 150k+ and yes, it is subjective. Buying any product over 10k deserves scrutiny

Cute_Plantain_6734

Tesla is safer than any of China's autonomous vehicles. I rather trust a Tesla than a BYD, don't be fooled by China's marketing gimmicks. Likely the robots are controlled or a human in a robot suit.

addictivesign

Tesla. Musk will die within the next decade and Apple will acquire Tesla and the brand will go away. Apple will become the U.S equivalent of BYD.

cultoftheclave

only non-BYD sector contender with as solid a growth pattern as NIO, will be one of a handful of survivors when the great chinese EV purge strikes.