BYD

dcgradc

While I was investing in NIO about 18-24 months ago, Buffet was investing in BYD !

fetus-wearing-a-suit

They sell them in Mexico. The BYD Dolphin Mini has been doing GREAT, you see a bunch of them all the time now. I also saw a BYD Shark, looks as great as a Tacoma.

RipCity56

I see BYD everywhere in Latin America, even countries you wouldn't expect like Paraguay. I think they're here to stay. Also, their cars are simply more aesthetic, a better ride, and overall better interior.

Top-Inspection3870

BYD gets talked about a lot here...

fgd12350

The demand for EVs is high enough that BYD (and now xiaomi) both have massive demand backlogs. There probably is enough room for both but they are gonna pricewar it out for now. Either way, Tesla still doesnt fair well in non-US markets against them.

fgd12350

US was never the major market for them anyway. BYD is going to cannibalise all non-US Tesla market share and no US tariff can stop that. As a non-US citizen i would take a BYD over a tesla any day.

Informal-Emu-212

Check the stories about BYD rusting in Australia, failing in Russia and closing dealerships in China from financial pressures. My sense is their cabin tech is awesome, but their car tech is rough... plastic struts for example, corrosion issues, etc. They've also been caught faking performance videos against competitors.

Master0643

BYD is an absolute monster of a company, western governments are trying their hardest to keep them out, some say they have quality problems but Byd also has WAY more cars on the road than Tesla so naturally you will hear more fud. I would have full ported if it was from a more politically stable country.

PlanetCosmoX

I’ve read about BYD quality problem. I’m not sure if that a Tesla FUD. The largest difference is that with BYD you’re paying for a bad battery that doesn’t have anywhere near the capacity of a Tesla. They are selling cars with specific range, the cheaper the car the lower the range. Works depending on your use case. If you look at their cars with the same range as a Tesla they’re roughly the same price.

dankysco

I got into BYD because it has NO us exposure and seems to function really well without it. With orange man seeming to want to deliberately tank the American economy.

zedder1994

>BYD is one of the highest subsidised companies in China Not according to the Europeans. When they tariffed Chinese car companies, BYD ended up as one of the lowest tariffed companies because they had the least amount of subsidies.

bartturner

Live half time Bangkok and other half US. BYD is super popular in Bangkok and now have three friends that have purchased. One a Seal, another Dolphin and the last one just got the new SeaLion. The full EV one. All three love their cars and not had a single problem with them. What Americans do not realize is that the Chinese have figured out cars and are building really nice cars. If the US market was open to them they would clean up. But doubt the US market will ever be available. But I would expect the Chinese to take every market they are allowed to sell into.

auradragon1

> Burned my hands with NIO and XPENG few yrs back. Those are meme stocks. BYD is much larger, real, and executing quietly. They're penetrating many countries simultaneously. They don't need to be in the US to become big.

ScoobyGDSTi

BYD aren't just a car manufacturer. They're more like Mutisubish Heavy Industries or the like. They also make damn good cars.

frogchris

You realize the stock is up over 2000% right? You could have put all your money into it in 2008 and absolutely destroyed the s&p500. What else do you want lmao. Yea Li Lu, Charlie Munger, Warren Buffet. Those guys are idiots for investing in BYD. Don't they know CCP is evil and cannot be trusted.

ishamm

Just don't look at how the Chinese government supports companies like BYD

ishamm

"Musk is a fascist, support BYD" is such a common but utterly bizarre Reddit thing...

ishamm

BYD, Build Your Dreams! Unless you're one of the slaves they use to build their products...

earth-calling-karma

Everybody is talking about BYD.

whalewhisperer78

Living and working in Asia currently. Feel like every second car is a BYD these days

RijnBrugge

The stock is Chinese so that’s a no from me dog. But you’re completely right that BYD will crush Tesla. They already have in the EU and the third world. Tesla can only survive off of government hand outs. BYD is also gonna finish building a big factory in the EU soon and then there won’t be any tariffs anymore here (and they will be able to export to the US with much lower tariffs than from China).

GoldResolution4921

Are we able to invest in BYD from american markets?

wenchanger

BYD doesn't have to kill Tesla, Tesla tech is shit and is killing itself, but Teslas a meme stock so it's not gonna get killed

buffotinve

BYD has a problem like all Chinese companies, there is legal certainty and at any moment the rules of the game change (I'm not saying that the US doesn't do illegal things from time to time too but it is more unusual). Maybe it outweighs the risk benefit, but at PER 22 I don't think so. It is one thing to enter at 60 and another to double as it is now. I have experienced BABA and other Chinese companies that almost never stand up having good fundamentals. And be careful with the State subsidies, which distort the numbers a lot with them, look at the CALT csso that I was analyzing and without those subsidies (if one day the Chinese government will take them away) the numbers change a lot

Btomesch

Long BYD, short Tesla. Dare ya.

RainieY

TSLA is trash and BYD has geopolitical risk, better to buy penny stocks

Super-Base-

BYD sells more than EVs, they sell hybrids and even busses, so you cannot look at theyr sales volume as purely an EV play. Tesla’s market cap is not driven by EV sales volume but the market betting on them being the first to private vehicle driving autonomy, which in North America at least BYD is completely absent.

PM_ME_UR_DRAG_CURVE

I won't personally consider BYD the Toyota/Honda of EV, but they are more like pre-EV Hyundai/Kia. Slightly poor support in terms of parts/repair (it's pretty much a meme in SEA that parts are always 3 months out) but more than made up for by value for money.

ki11a11hippies

I just spend 3 weeks in China getting rides in BYD cars. Their 6 passenger Denza vans are amazing, and the average sedan beats a Model 3 in interior comfort and quality of materials.

Savings-Seat6211

The problem is that the USA market is closed off from BYD.

remic_0726

BYD receives a lot of subsidies from the Chinese state, they produce impressive quantities of cars to the point that they no longer know where to park them. They manipulate the sales figures to receive more and more subsidies. The goal is to destroy competition and we know that they sell at a loss. When they have a monopoly, they will raise prices as they wish. Except that it is not certain that they will succeed, they risk ending up like Evergrand. So caution for potential investors.

Akul0

BYD is not moving much just because it's a Chinese company. Their cars are very popular in SEA and they've been breaking into the EU market too but I think the US will be hard if not impossible because of the relationship and tariffs put in place. China in general is many years ahead of western companies in the EV scene, and are winning the race atm.

imlaggingsobad

How did BYD get this cracked? Who is their CEO? Musk is supposedly the best America had to offer, yet BYD is running circles around Tesla. How…

UnableCharacter4815

I saw a BYD in California, it looked like shit

Novel_Mud_5771

Your 1-2 years to late on BYD. These EV companies are in a very competitive market with very low margins.

diemunkiesdie

> The BYD is a VIE claim is just confusion with Chinese tech stocks. Great, you answered your question then: "So why are US investors sitting on the sidelines?" Because everyone thinks its a VIE (not that anyone knows what that acronym means) and its not real equity.

clubfungus

They sell BYD in Australia. Really nice cars.

Express_Dirt_1950

Berkshire Hathaway sold due to severe accounting fraud and quality issues at BYD. Sales numbers have been faked using shell corporations to “buy” acres of useless, rusted undercarriage vehicles in order to game the government subsidy program as the CCP has paid handsomely to increase electric vehicle sales numbers. China intends to subsidize its way to monopolizing the electric vehicle market similar to what it has done in rare earth processing. The cars don’t have to run, they just have to have the numbers to claim China is number 1. The BYD dealership tells customers the vehicles are not to be allowed to get wet, as the undercarriage rust quality issues are a known defect. Berkshire Hathaway is not making decisions based on political uncertainty. They are big enough to be untouchable. The US is not the CCP… Berkshire cannot be nationalized for irritating the president. As horrible as trump has been, he does not have the authority of Xi Jinping to make very rich CEOs disappear to reeducation camps.

mikeumd98

Agree with everything you said in the first part. But BYD is government subsidized and do we know if they actually make any money per car?

Deviltherobot

Feel like nobody is really Ignoring BYD, tons of political, finance, and car people talk about it.

Express_Dirt_1950

BYD cars are sold with the expectation they not be driven in wet conditions because the cheap steel used in the undercarriage will quickly rust and fail. This is a known fact, and is stated by the dealerships. Many angry buyers of BYD cars have publicly sued over severe quality issues related to manufacturing the vehicles as cheaply as possible. BYD’s sales numbers are mostly fraudulent. BYD uses shell “rental car” and “ride share” companies to “purchase” the vehicles in order to obtain the government subsidies without actually selling the vehicles. It appears the CCP will subsidize BYD into the black regardless of quality and accounting fraud, but it is not clear what demand truly exists for BYD products, and to what degree BYD can build reliable, real world use vehicles. That’s why Berkshire Hathaway has sold its stake in BYD. Prudent investors will return when real value exists.

niksa058

Tesla is Trabant compared to BYD,like buying blackberry

bamadesi

Hear me out: If Next POTUS is a Democrat and he wants to hit Musk where it pains, he will let BYD sell cars in US. The POTUs can say he wants the citizens to have access to cheaper EVs (could be popular with US customers as they get cheaper cars). What can Musk do in that case?

Getrekt11

100% tariffs on BYD in the US is the reason why people don’t talk about it. Drop that and Tesla will die faster.

ccs77

China has no intention to crush their EV industry. If anything the CCP has put out stern warning for the price wars initiated by byd. The Chinese want multiple winners, not just single BYD dominating the local and international market.

yonghypeboy

BYD, Build Your Dream? lol fuk BYD

yonghypeboy

Comparing Tesla with BYD doesn’t make much sense. Even in China, BYD struggles to attract buyers due to problems, caught on fire, paint rust after a few years, No FSD. Watch Youtube videos with the issue with Cheap Chinese BYD. Drive Tesla with FSD, Guess you haven't. Drive Tesla and make comparison between two. Fuk BYD

ElectricalIssue5733

BYD isn’t a VIE. A VIE is when a Chinese company sets up an offshore shell, usually in the Caymans, because foreign investors aren’t allowed to own the real company (think Alibaba or Tencent). In those cases you don’t actually own equity, just contracts. BYD is different, it’s listed directly in Hong Kong and Shenzhen, and the OTC tickers you buy in the US (BYDDF/BYDDY) are either ADRs or direct access to the Hong Kong shares. That means you own real equity with the same rights as any other Hong Kong H-shareholder. The real risk with BYD is geopolitical, trade tensions, tariffs, or possible delisting in the US, not some VIE shell game. The BYD is a VIE claim is just confusion with Chinese tech stocks.

ImperatorofKaraks

Thanks, I will try and do some more research into this topic. I did some research in the past and I based my understanding on the most popular Chinese companies like Alibaba, tencent, PDD, tencent, etc which all look like they are VIE’s. I will take your word that BYD isn’t, but I’m not quite sure what the difference is there. But the danger of the VIE isn’t that the company will always stiff the foreign investors. They can’t do that since they want foreign capital and trade, it is that the possibility is there.

tachyonvelocity

Sure I’ll correct you, the structure you’re referring to is a VIE. Not all Chinese companies are VIEs and BYD isn’t, it’s also both listed on the Chinese mainland and HK. The implication for either VIE or not is not really higher risk or lack of ownership, because the Chinese government has acknowledged it as a legal workaround to laws preventing foreign ownership of specific types of companies. VIE companies are also listed in HK, with which the stocks are exchangeable. If you look at history, it’s actually the US who has attempted to delist Chinese stocks whereas China wants its companies to be able to IPO in other stock markets. When you also say a lack ownership it’s not true in its current form because companies like BABA also buys VIE stocks, and VIEs are entitled to dividends. Chinese stocks that aren’t VIEs also give foreign owners dividends and buybacks.

jimmycryptso

He drives a Xiaomi, not a BYD

No_Refrigerator_2917

You're right that BYD now beats Tesla hands-down. However, investing in a Chinese company is another issue. They don't put shareholders first.

tech01x

Your analysis still falls far short… their labor is $2-4/hour domestically. But look how much, say, an ATTO3 costs in Europe - it isn’t nearly the same inexpensive price as it is in China, due to domestic subsidies. Again, Tesla already effectually competes in the most competitive BEV market in the world - China, which far less subsidies than what BYD has received and continues to receive.

notgaynotbear

BYD is one of the highest subsidised companies in China. I would wager with the specific intent to crush the rest of the growing EV market. Their cars are good, but the prices are borderline criminal. Even Chinese companies couldnt produce something for that cheap abd at that quality.

madmanz123

I was just in China for two weeks, while there are several strong competitors like BYD, I saw a good amount of Teslas, shockingly.

tech01x

That makes no sense. First, BYD makes PHEVs and BEVs, which PHEVs slightly outnumbering BEVs. Furthermore, when you look inside the numbers and see the model and segment breakdowns, Tesla dominates in their product segments. BYD makes a lot of very cheap vehicles in segments that Tesla doesn’t compete in. Many of those vehicles wouldn’t pass either European or American homologation. You analysis is quite sophomoric.

ACharmedLife

The CEO of Ford drives a BYD. He likes it and doesn't want to give it up. It's a top of the line model and he paid around $17K. Right now Ford is working on a $30K Pick-up built from the ground up like BYD.

Goldhinize

I guess we’ll see. I like BYD also, but I’m betting on XIAOMI because I like that they’re the second largest manufacturer of smartphones in the world and they’re only 15 years old. BYD is 30 years old already and has twice the revenue as XIAOMI, but I just see more upside in XIAOMI in the next 5 years.

ElectricalIssue5733

True for sure, but BYD does not need US markets to crush Tesla.

ElectricalIssue5733

Fair, I’ve actually owned BYD for a while and trimmed already. At this point I’m just curious what the general sentiment is on here.

HeroPsycho22

No, it's BYD.

HeroPsycho22

BYD will kill the US and European economy. Great and beautiful car. In Brazil they are very popular and cheap.

tech01x

Tesla already competes with BYD’s in multiple countries including China. It is the Biden administration’s gift to the UAW for the initial import tariff on Chinese EVs, because GM, Ford, and Stellantis would not survive.

G4M35

I was on vacation in Paris last fall, I saw the BYD cars out there, and I went to a dealership. I was impressed. And I started researching it. > So why are US investors sitting on the sidelines? I have a long position in BYD.

ImperatorofKaraks

Because BYD is a Chinese stock. BYD is actually one of the more popular Chinese stocks currently, but they are not going to be as popular as American or European stocks given the unpredictability of government regulation in China. I’m not trying to put a value statement on anything, this is just a lesson that investors have learned from the past.

photon1701d

I go to China for work and I use a Huawai phone over there. It's a far better phone compared to apple and samsung. The battery lasts forever. Mind you, I don't have as much junk on that phone. BYD, Cherry and Nio ev's are everywhere. usa thinks they are leaders but sometimes they don't know how far they are behind

fedroxx

> None of them impressed me in any way. They looked extremely generic and on the cheap side. They're the Honda of electric vehicles. > Any Tesla looks way better than a BYD from what I have seen. Tesla is garbage, and the designs are ugly as shit. All of my coworkers who them complain nonstop.

kosko-bosko

I was recently in Hungary where I saw multiple BYD cars. I am a car enthusiast and they caught my eye since I couldn’t recognize the shape outright. None of them impressed me in any way. They looked extremely generic and on the cheap side. I can imagine those cars offering better value for money. But saying BYD is far beyond anything USA can offer sounds damn stupid to me. Any Tesla looks way better than a BYD from what I have seen. And I doubt they’re better technically. So the only possible feat would be better value for money.

fedroxx

I would, hands down, buy a Chinese phone over any American company.  Same with electric cars. Lived in China a long time. BYD is far beyond anything the US can offer at present, and typically for 60% of the price.

Boheed

So Tesla builds the worst truck ever, is getting screwed internationally, can't compete with BYD battery tech, is pivoting away from AI, is hiring drivers for its self-driving robotaxis, is getting undercut by fucking **FORD** now that they're trying to enter the budget EV space, and also built a single hilariously bad Jetsons-ass diner. How is this company still in the 330 range?

Desperate_Sink_2205

They have these weird work arounds so you can invest in a lot of big Chinese companies. I’d prob recommend BYD as a safe investment that is basically guaranteed growth since they’re basically everywhere except the US.

p0rkjello

BYD is not American

CDulst

BYD is so undervalued it's a crime. I'm never getting rid of it.

CDulst

BYD, UBER, GOOGL, NVDA, INTEL, OPEN, TMC, TIGR PLTR puts + RKLB puts 1 - 10, how retarded is this portfolio.

BeatingTheTide

Thanks for the input. I am not downvoting, i genuinely want to hear different takes. I am curious, have you tried a Chinese EV? I haven’t but a friend of mine living in China has and actually owns a BYD EV. He told me that in the past the EVs were bad quality and looked cheap. But the new ones are great, they even have features that the Tesla ones don’t (he told me a couple of features and that is why he opted for a BYD but for I cannot recall right now). Another data point is that if the Chinese EVs are as inferior as you say, they wouldn’t take so much share in Germany.

CDulst

Glory to Xi Jinping, Glory to the CCP, Glory to BYD!

quary1993

Ai sector: • ⁠msft • ⁠meta • ⁠google Ai supply chain: • ⁠tsm • ⁠siemens Big tech: • ⁠amazon • ⁠apple China big tech: • ⁠bidu • ⁠baba • ⁠jd Batteries ( a lot of upside here when progress is made for both cars and solar energy storage) • ⁠Amperex • ⁠BYD CRISPR tech: • ⁠vrtx • ⁠regn • ⁠mrk • ⁠crspr Some broad market indexes in case i miss a great developing sector: • ⁠s&p • ⁠nasdaq • ⁠euro stoxx • ⁠msci japan To protect against aggressive downturns, since we’re at ath and high uncertainty: • ⁠a gold etf • ⁠berkshire • ⁠some bonds I will sell the last group in the first 15-20% downturn and rebalance https://preview.redd.it/uy3mhpvdhrif1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1d97db6bdf260dc41ee6ca1a479a27a328a44e9 \*photo didn’t capture everything, but here are the biggest positions

517UATION

Was going to post something similar to this. OP forgetting that a US stock market crash will likely crash the global market, too. OP might be fine if he invested it all in the PRC market, but that market has its own issues. Would be trading a defective Tesla for a defective BYD essentially.

CDulst

I didn't buy enough BYD on the dip, going back in.

Upper_Knowledge_6439

Greg Abel got BRK to look at Amazon and the stake in Snowflake before the IPO. They also have a large stake in BYD. Meanwhile the Japanese holdings are conglomerate who also hold many tech oriented businesses. Saying he doesn’t invest in tech is a bit too generalistic. Every company is a play on technology company today whether they like it or not. Google has Waymo, phones, and a very interesting part - YouTube (advertising)- which I think aligns with his significant plays in media companies like Sirius.

CDulst

You don't own enough BYD

CDulst

The masculine urge to full port BYD and move to China.

Top-Republic-6052

Went Rheinmetall yesterday, Got stop lossed at 1495, got lossed another time - 180€ Buy another time in, get a profit, move SL into profit. SL hits at 21:5x, unable to buy new contracts for better price. Next day: Rheinmetall soaring, Entry unstable, - 200€ Fzck u Rheinmetall. I'll switch to BYD I'm done

CDulst

Are we finally done selling off BYD? Time to buy some more.

RalphTheIntrepid

I get the joke, but will NIO survive consolidation in the Chinese market? My understanding is that the CCP knows there are too many vendors. Their internal market is overloaded across all sectors supporting EVs. Will NIO survive BYD?

livinginahologram

>But from the data we have they are not selling more PURE EV than Tesla. *In 2024, the global electric vehicle (EV) market witnessed a significant shift.** **Chinese automaker BYD became the world’s largest EV producer, manufacturing approximately 1.78 million EVs—slightly surpassing Tesla’s 1.77 million units.** https://alcottglobal.com/infographic/top-20-automotive-brands-in-the-world-by-electric-vehicle-sales Tesla is a declining car business so the numbers will keep going down for Tesla.

suurking

If BYD and Zeekr hits US market then it’s over for Teslas, Rivians and other shit brands

GlitteringLock9791

Yeah, I do think LLMs are here to stay and a great tool for professionals and amateurs to improve their workflows with. But we probably have hit a floor and LLMs will probably not be directly leading to AGI - other research branches might be more successful. I think AMD still has room for growth, they have great long term strategy plays. I am a little bit interested in HUAWEI, mainly if they manage to become chinas alternative to NVIDIA in the comming years, however china stocks usually aren't valued great (see BYD compared to Tesla). NBIS seems great.

OkEye2910

Would you buy someone's old battery and controller. Not me. Probably cost less to buy a new gen BYD.

CDulst

Xi Jinping just full port BYD and stop with ur commie BS 🖕

ShotBandicoot7

Are we still pumping TSLA on bad news? A whole lot to celebrate this week‘s happenings (sales numbers in key EU markets down big, Dojo shutdown, BYD robotaxi intention to go to UK, Germany, and much more), would make for a good firework.

dansdansy

And BYD

AlfalfaGlitter

If I had shorts on intel, I'd be selling right now. If I had any money left after the recent fall of BYD, I'd be buying.

Bacalhau_a_Bras

How this is trump fault? 0 IQ if you want to blame, blame Mercedes to sell EV cars very expensive with banal features. Why would you get that if you can get in China a BYD,Xiaomi with higher quality and cheaper. Mercedes thought chineses would buy EQS overpriced cars? delusional

r2002

I would replace BYD and Xiaomi with $KWEB. Would also add a little Sofi, Hood, UNH, Nvidia, AMD, and Cisco.

AnoAnoSaPwet

Not enough time has passed yet, we've only had solid tariffs for a few months now, and it's still in the "uncertainty" stage. The Aluminum tariffs alone cost about 100k jobs on both sides of the border, very high paying industrial positions, that's not even factoring in the steel tariffs?  Manufacturing is going to be hit hard, especially on products like automobiles that cross the border numerous times (something like 7 times per vehicle?) Yeah nah, that's not happening! Imagine tariffs being applied at every incursion? Might as well open the floodgates for BYD in Canada/Mexico. Why not?  Carney has been sticking tight to USMCA being the biding contract it is (as tariffs are only applied on excluded items), and China has been flouting WTO violations on trade. Those will have a price.  Everyone else is just a bunch of fucking pussies. Imagine having to bribe a manbaby just to have contracts HE SIGNED HIMSELF to be abided by?  I hope the stock market holds up! 

PresenceOk1371

This is very true as well. However, the dilemma is, all of these countries also want to build things and export them also. The more that they can sell to other countries, the more money they'll have to invest in their own, and all of them actually already do have protectionist tariffs in place to a certain degree. For example, do we think the Chinese are going to let BMW outsell or even compete fairly with BYD in the Chinese markets? Not a chance. While the implementation of tariffs has certainly been rocky and abrasive, ultimately trade needs to be fair to be sustainable.

quary1993

Ai sector: - msft - meta - google Ai supply chain: - tsm - siemens Big tech: - amazon - apple China big tech: - bidu - baba - jd Batteries ( a lot of upside here when progress is made for both cars and solar energy storage) - Amperex - BYD CRISPR tech: - vrtx - regn - mrk - crspr Add some broad market indexes in case you miss a great developing sector: - s&p - nasdaq - euro stoxx - msci japan To protect against aggressive downturns, since we’re at ath and high uncertainty: - a gold etf - berkshire - some bonds maybe Sell the last group in the first 15-20% downturn and rebalance

appropriate_guy

I've been looking at long term bets to me all the following given the risks they have still can be explosive ASTS, QS, AMPX or any data center plays. I'm not too bullish on RKLB because competition and it feels like a smaller market compared to the other three. ASTS already had deals and QS, AMPX have a lot of potential with their parents. NVO at this moment is still interesting provided it finds a bottom. BYD how they are selling while TSLA sales dwindle across markets can also be big. But the list generally is solid.

AdAgile9604

Why BYD?