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I think Trump is Getting Ready to Fire Musk - But #teslatakedown Continues
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FedRP24, most people prefer subpar familiarity over performance per dollar. There's no comparison between a model 3 or y and a similarly priced sedan or crossover. For the inevitable haters, I understand that chinese EV carmaker genuinely produce a similar vehicle for half of the price, but regulations restrict them from being sold here TLDR: ya fed!!! U suck for getting value and a plethora of features other vehicles just don't have!!!
They don't have to. They make better cars at half the price. Just watch MKBHD review of the Xiaomi SU7. A better EV sedan than the Tesla 3 at $30k. The US is the closed communist economy limiting competition to preserve their shitty local cars, LMAO
So you’re comparing an old POS Toyota to a brand new car? That’s where people like you get disconnected. We’re talking about comparing 2 similar cars from similar years. I’m saying to compare new Tesla model Y to see a Toyota RAV4 hybrid. Of course, an old POS will be cheaper, but it’s a POSLMAO it doesn’t have the safety, tech, convenience, comfort features of a Tesla so it’s not even the same realm. That’s like saying to me that if I want beef, I should get a burger since it’s cheaper than steak, of course a burger would be cheaper, but is it the same as a steak? No it’s not. And using heat well, EV is stationary doesn’t take that much battery at all, I don’t even think I use one percent battery power to preheat or pre-cool my car LMAO The other big thing is since it’s in the convenience of my garage, it’s plugged in, so take the energy directly from the wall charger and not the car battery… Look at any credible source online that compares two new EV and gas cars, hybrid or not, you’ll see that the EV is infinitely cheap cheaper If I bought a Toyota RAV4 instead of a Tesla model Y I would’ve spent way more money on gas and maintenance by now I’m almost at 100,000 miles after five years. I couldn’t even tell you what the inside of the service center for Tesla looks like cause I’ve never been. I saved at minimum $2000 a year not buying gas, minimum $300 a year not getting oil changes, I have 85% brake life left because electric vehicles have region breaking. So that’s another $1500 savings not having to waste time and money on brakes. Not to mention an EV has way less moving parts so way less has a potential of going wrong. So just doing a rough estimate in five years I saved about $12,500 minimum not buying a gas car. That’s similarly priced to my Tesla.
If you're going to use the argument of how fast your car heats up, also factor in how much energy is burned with heat and AC. An EV's battery discharges way faster with the HVAC system powered on, whereas the heat from an ICE is just garnered through the engine and does not consume any extra energy. In the context of saving money, you could have just bought a 10-15 year old reliable, fuel-efficient Toyota for under $10k, and spent way less in total for transportation than your Tesla - especially upfront. EVs don't save you money. That's just what you're led to believe. You're spending a lot of the cost upfront, and in depreciation.
is it even a moat when the govt is actively trying to kill the EV market? I'm just waiting for Toyota to release an EV... would never touch TSLA with a 1000 ft pole with their nonexistent QC.
You're correlating TSLA's fundamentals with its market movement, and you're trading scared, which means you just got lucky. TSLA is Elon, which makes TSLA more than EV. Without Elon, TSLA is RIVN. You're probably high on ROI and are just complaining really out of enthusiasm. Shorting TSLA is a thing of legend. It's almost a sure bet. We've all done it and will continue to do so. Be thankful you did well. It will not always be so. But you'll find out soon enough.
Yeah, the space and quantum stuff feels a lot like 2021's EV/SPAC mania. I'm actually building something to track how executives in those sectors change their story quarter to quarter, since that's often the first warning sign. Super early but here if you're curious: [fainancial.app](http://fainancial.app)
Outdated compared to current technology? Voltage levels are low. And if tesla isnt just a car company the charging network is fairly dependent on EVs being successful. Musks current affair with the trump admin is in stark contradiction with EV adoption. Teslas robotics are nothing unique. Sure, they have advanced quickly over a couple years, but still years behind for a market ready product. Their battery sector is also still limited by trump admin policies, not to mention the negative effects of trumps tariffs. Robotaxis aren't what was promised and seem like they will be limited by geofenced cities. Cost of lidar is dropping and vision only seems to have hit a ceiling and shows to have safety issues. Profits in predominantly blue cities will be plagued by musks hard right political views and actions. People will opt for less controversial options, not everyone, but I imagine the bottom line will be affected. Internationally, musk and Tesla are viewed negatively in Europe. China is working its hardest towards EV adoption and will always prefer a national company. Idk what to be excited for in regards to tsla. I suppose SpaceX ipo will boost tsla sp, but what then?
Right, so from that view point, the charging network in itself is valuable, yes? Of course not as much as what TSLA is valued at right now, that's crazy. But this network stands to become the backbone of EV charging in the future of the US, no? I don't know much about this space, just speculating
I thought we already knew tesla doesn't act like an EV company anymore
Add TSLA to the EV "community" this year, most likely
It’s not lower EV demand lmao, its lower tesla demand
"This time I’m focusing on growth stocks that have a shot at outperforming the S&P" Optimally, a list to do this would include at least some things that are the "next" things, not a list of largely the same things you see on many Reddit lists today. GOOG doing well and AMZN probably near a bounce, but the default to Mag 7 as the tech exposure for an increasing amount of lists on here feels like there wasn't an attempt to research beyond the most obvious household names. I wouldn't own RIVN even though I think it probably is one of one or two EV names out of all the EV garbage that went public in 2020/21 that lasts. With few exceptions the automobile industry is not a good investment. RIVN will probably never get back to the post-IPO high. People still seem to treat the EV theme as if its 2020/21 when the market is telling you that it's not. Just as charging co CHPT, down about 70% in the last year and -99% from the peak. "PAAS" How about SII on a pullback? Rather than one mining company, the largest nat resource financial company. If more people pile into their physical and stock ETFs (as for the latter, SETM certainly has done well) and AUM goes up, more fees. A broader play on silver/gold/resources than one mine. Good luck and hope you do well, but I would refine the list some.
TSLA is truly the most regarded stock of all time. Overtaken by some shitty Chinese EV company and sales are dropping and yet they’re worth more than the next 20 automakers combined. Probably more. Can’t wait for this piece of shit scam to finally fall apart
I would agree. It’s one to be cautious on. The EV market is a hard one to call now.
2 things excited me: 1: Alphamayo. This is potentially pretty big: now a car manufacturer can just take this and give a shot at AV. I am going to need to see the new Mercedes Benz in action: it has no giant bulky sensor like a Waymo (though prob still has lidar), and it being production ready (to a point where you can buy one soon in the US) may be a pretty big disruptor in the robo-taxi game. One thing of note is that their partners are a giant list of Chinese EV makers. While companies like Stellantis, Uber, Benz, and Lucid are there, likely it is the BYDs and Xiaomis that will make this super main stream, esp if they are allowed to be tested in Chinese cities. 2) The whole DGX platform: like, how is anyone supposed to even compete with that? Feels like nvidia has taken the whole data center game to the next level. At the end of the day, even with a bubble burst, AI will still be all around us and utilized, and nvidia has given a strong reason for data centers to keep buying their stuff. (I jokingly made a remark of when he did the blackwell comparison: okay, so peak performance will be 10x, will the price of one of these also be 10x?)
Been there with the blown portfolio thing. Good call stepping back from options and day trading... that stuff can drain an account fast. Your picks are solid but pretty tech-heavy. GOOGL and AMZN are safe long-term holds. SOFI's interesting if you believe in fintech growth. RIVN is risky though... still burning cash and the EV space is crowded. PAAS seems random in that mix unless you're hedging with precious metals. Not a bad idea given everything going on. XEQT as your base is smart. Maybe do 60-70% in that and use the rest for your individual picks? That way if a couple don't pan out, you're still tracking the market. What's your timeline on these? Makes a difference for something volatile like RIVN vs the big tech names.
I'm not sure how RIVN got on to your list. I'm still bitter as I lost money on the stock but deliveries in 2025 slipped to \~ 42,247 vehicles (down \~18% year-over-year) and slightly below expectations, highlighting persistent soft demand for premium EVs after the federal $7,500 EV tax credit expired in September 2025. I would tread lightly with this one.
IGC, ADIL for possible commiceralization of their products this year. DFLI, and BLNK with the rise of EV; and a Impending EV mandate. MBOT, FEMY since they start commercialization; bd started pursuing profits. ONL as it should be mostly underway with its assest reassessment which should generate more income abroad. GGB for a long term hold towards rebuilding efforts with Venezuela, and possibly Ukraine if the north american or South america segments decide to export to them (but still probably unlikely atleast from the north american segment with tarrifs). PLBY for retail hype, aswell as possible expanding into profitability going into 2026.
Everyone knows why Venezuela - Epstein's shadow and Rubio's ego. I think this is a huge win-win for China - if US invests the $1T+ in oil infrastructure, that brings the oil price floor down and hugely benefits East Asia and India. If China accelerates their EV advantage globally - the marginal demand for oil will drop and will significantly reduce the margins for US corporations. There is also the risk of nothing happening in Venezuela - and will be all talk and no significant investments from the US (I would like to see US Congress voting on $xBs aid package. From a investment perspective - US refiners are worth a bet, and I will look for a bet with leverage here (3 year horizon). Still, good news to Venezuelans, both here and there
- **Full Self-Driving (FSD) Autonomy**: Musk has repeatedly promised full self-driving capabilities since 2015, predicting availability within 3 years initially, then nearly every year since 2020 (e.g., unsupervised FSD by end of 2024/2025). As of 2026, FSD remains supervised, requiring human oversight, with no Level 5 autonomy achieved. - **Robotaxi Rollout**: In 2019, Musk predicted 1 million robotaxis by 2020; later promises included widespread unsupervised operations in multiple US cities by end of 2025, with fleets covering half the US population. Reality: Limited pilot in Austin/SF with safety monitors, small fleets (~30-130 vehicles), no widespread unsupervised service. - **Model 3 Production Ramp (2017-2018)**: Targeted 5,000 vehicles per week by late 2017, later delayed multiple times. Actual output was far lower (e.g., only 260 produced in Q3 2017 due to bottlenecks), causing "production hell" and extended delays for reservation holders. - **Cybertruck Delivery & Production**: Unveiled in 2019 with promises of production starting late 2021 (starting at ~$40k). Delayed repeatedly to 2022, then 2023; volume production slipped further into 2025/2026 amid quality issues, low sales, and inventory buildup. - **Affordable EV ($25k Model/Next-Gen Vehicle)**: Promised in 2020 as a ~$25,000 mass-market car; plans scrapped or redirected to existing lines by 2024-2025, with no dedicated low-cost model delivered. - **Vehicle Delivery Growth (2025)**: Forecasted 20-30% growth in 2025 deliveries. Actual: Deliveries declined year-over-year, marking the second annual drop. #HOW CAN I TRUST TESLA & ELON MUSK
rofl. I was down 60% in a week on leaps, literally negative EV to cut that. I bought a year of time for a reason...
- **Full Self-Driving (FSD) Autonomy**: Musk has repeatedly promised full self-driving capabilities since 2015, predicting availability within 3 years initially, then nearly every year since 2020 (e.g., unsupervised FSD by end of 2024/2025). As of 2026, FSD remains supervised, requiring human oversight, with no Level 5 autonomy achieved. - **Robotaxi Rollout**: In 2019, Musk predicted 1 million robotaxis by 2020; later promises included widespread unsupervised operations in multiple US cities by end of 2025, with fleets covering half the US population. Reality: Limited pilot in Austin/SF with safety monitors, small fleets (~30-130 vehicles), no widespread unsupervised service. - **Model 3 Production Ramp (2017-2018)**: Targeted 5,000 vehicles per week by late 2017, later delayed multiple times. Actual output was far lower (e.g., only 260 produced in Q3 2017 due to bottlenecks), causing "production hell" and extended delays for reservation holders. - **Cybertruck Delivery & Production**: Unveiled in 2019 with promises of production starting late 2021 (starting at ~$40k). Delayed repeatedly to 2022, then 2023; volume production slipped further into 2025/2026 amid quality issues, low sales, and inventory buildup. - **Affordable EV ($25k Model/Next-Gen Vehicle)**: Promised in 2020 as a ~$25,000 mass-market car; plans scrapped or redirected to existing lines by 2024-2025, with no dedicated low-cost model delivered. - **Vehicle Delivery Growth (2025)**: Forecasted 20-30% growth in 2025 deliveries. Actual: Deliveries declined year-over-year, marking the second annual drop. It’s life
So like I said you just listen to Republican propaganda LMAO - i’m assuming you didn’t go to college but did you drop out of high school too then? Every car currently is expensive to ensure no matter where you look. My Tesla currently is $125 a month which is basically the same as what I was paying on my old Audi Q5….. Sure batteries are heavy, but I’m not sure what that has to do with anything? And you can look at any electric vehicle sub and see that degradation really doesn’t have a big impact overtime. I’ve done many road trips. I have 100,000 miles just about on my Tesla and have zero issues with road trips. It takes about 10 to 20 minutes to charge depending on distance, etc. When you go on a road trip especially with multiple people you’re definitely making stops. You go in, eat, use the bathroom, etc. then come back that all takes the same amount of time to charge the car sometimes even longer so you get even more charged than necessary. And the car charges while you’re eating and at the rest stop. With a gas car, you do all that then go refill gas We just went to a friend’s wedding, which is about six hours each way, half of us came in my Tesla the other half were in a Honda Accord. We each had to make one stop. We both stopped at the same time, eight, use a bathroom, and again my car charged while we did all that. Meanwhile, everyone in the accord went to the car and had to wait for gas, it’s minuscule, but we made it to our destination, almost 25 minutes before the Honda did so really charging is negligible. Sure if you’re doing an extremely long trip I agree it is going to add time. But overall, the money you save owning EV makes it all worth it. Plus most people don’t take rather long road trips often. If you look up statistics, the average American drive 40 miles per day…. I guess you’re a greasy gear head and that’s fine, but most people aren’t most people just want a car. They’ll take them places they need they don’t need “a soul“. Which by the way, all cars no matter what type our soul less as they are not alive. There’s some weird mental instability with above average Car people that think their gas cars have a soul in it just because it makes a loud noise and spews, toxic, heat, and fumes out of the exhaust daily LMAO. You’ve obviously never owned an electric vehicle, but I can tell you as someone who actually has owned gas and electric cars, electric cars are very fast, handles very well as excellent drivability. I agree it’s too bad that tax credits went away. It’s a nice incentive for companies to build electric vehicles and for people to buy them. But you know what else has massive government incentive? Gasoline LMAO did you know that? The United States government subsidize our gas so much that it’s around $2-3 a gallon. If they didn’t subsidize it, it would cost just as much as everywhere else in the world and be around seven dollars a gallon, I wonder how many people would buy gas cars if that was the case. Since you’re not very educated, you don’t seem to know that Republicans are in the pockets of big oil and big car companies, so they want to keep those things cheap for their buddies, they don’t care about anything else they don’t care about you they just wanna make money off of you and know that people like you were gullible and will give them the support and money even though they do nothing for you… Unless you’re in the one percent the Republican Party looks at you like a little ant Tesla is still number two worldwide and in EV sales so I’m not sure what you’re crying about. They also have many other products in the pipeline right now so it’s not just cars we’re looking at… I would highly suggest you educate yourself because you already look and act like a high school dropout who reads headlines and does not do actual research Am I correct to assume you’re from the south? Maybe the rural Midwest?
EVs are expensive to insure, heavy, have batteries that degrade and are expensive to replace, suck on road trips due to charging time, and are a soulless driving experience. It’s like operating an appliance/microwave; not a real driving experience. If you have any interest in actual cars, you’ll know this. They had to give everyone a tax credit just to sell them to people. Since that went away, sales have declined. As expected. Tesla in itself is no longer an EV leader. BYD has already overtaken them. China is a huge threat. Best to hop off Elon’s you know what and his huge list of broken promises. The Cybertruck is the ugliest thing I’ve ever seen.
EV sales are declining. People are waking up to its disadvantages.
3 major groups: - people who believe Tesla is extremely ahead of the curve on EV technology, robotics and space and are willing to bet on future technology -people who are more traditional investors and see the P/E ratio is insane and won’t touch it. -people who hate that Elon is right leaning and can’t invest against their political views
War makes tsla moon shoot….god I wish I knew EV were such a hit for war
[$TSLA](https://x.com/search?q=%24TSLA&src=cashtag_click) **- TESLA OPTIMUS ROBOT FACES SETBACKS** Tesla’s Optimus humanoid robot project is facing technical and timeline challenges despite President Donald Trump’s recent praise of CEO Elon Musk. The robots remain hand-built, lack full dexterity, and are often remotely operated, prompting delays in factory deployment. The robotics push comes as Tesla’s core EV business weakens, with vehicle sales down in 2025 and global EV leadership lost to BYD.
TSLA - TESLA OPTIMUS ROBOT FACES SETBACKS Tesla’s Optimus humanoid robot project is facing technical and timeline challenges despite President Donald Trump’s recent praise of CEO Elon Musk. The robots remain hand-built, lack full dexterity, and are often remotely operated, prompting delays in factory deployment. The robotics push comes as Tesla’s core EV business weakens, with vehicle sales down in 2025 and global EV leadership lost to BYD.
Just calculate the EV (expected value) and/or ask yourself if you would sell this option now for that price. Usually the answer is no, so close it then.
Cheap oil for everyone. EV owners are stuck with overpriced golf carts.
Why do you only view it as an EV company and not an AI company?
Tesla stock will continue to erode. With cheap Oil getting cheaper by the day and the Federal rebates gone on EV. purchases there is no forseeable bottom in Tesla stock .
This is such a misguided narrative “just flip sides”. You are simply being paid a yield for selling insurance. That is it. It is not alpha, it is not edge. Regimes shift, and when vol rises again (inevitably) you’ll find out. The EV is generally small so, size wise given your profits, you are going to get steam rolled, regardless if it’s a bounded risk. 5-10% ror is what is typically made on selling 0DTE vol. Clearly you are new to options if you think you’ve found a solution to manage uncertainty. You’re just trying to avoid tail risk now, rather than chasing them. No real edge = grandeurs of delusion.
If you think about it, the potential returns are infinite, but the loss is limited to -100%. Since there are two ways this can go, it's a 50/50 chance. 50% of -100% is -50%, but 50% of infinity is still infinity, therefore the EV of this trade is infinite. It literally cannot go tits up.
I prefer EV's, but I can't disagree with your statement
EV drivers owned. Gas cars are the bear.
Here’s a hint: don’t buy either one. EV manufacturing is one of the toughest businesses in the world to make a profit. Rivian has been around for years and still losing about $30k per car sold. Not a sustainable business model, both companies you’re gambling hoping they’ll figure it out.
There's a very vocal minority of EV advocates who absolutely hate the living shit out of the idea of battery swapping, and I can't figure out why for the life of me.
IF you wanna think that... You should buy BYD stock while it is down 30% last 12 months.. While you're at it, Evergrande properties in China can ONLY GO UP.. [BYD’s Profitability Under Scrutiny Amid Aggressive Price Strategy](https://www.ad-hoc-news.de/boerse/news/ueberblick/byd-s-profitability-under-scrutiny-amid-aggressive-price-strategy/68420322) [Chinese EV Stocks Face Profit Collapse As 2026 Subsidy Cliff Looms](https://evxl.co/es/2025/11/29/chinese-ev-stocks-profit-collapse-2026-subsidy/)
You’re thinking about all the right things, but I’d be careful about adding complexity just because it sounds smart. VTI already has REIT exposure and you’re already getting EV and AI growth through the total market. Bonds don’t hurt, but they’re more about emotional stability than returns at your age. Before adding new investments, I’d honestly just fix the terrible HYSA situation. BankTruth makes it easy to see which ones are actually paying decent rates.
The world is electrifying everything, eh? Look.... I get it, your Twitter feed is full of solar panel installations and EV deliveries. Very inspiring. Now let me introduce you to this pesky thing called *data*. Fossil fuels were \~82% of global primary energy in 2000. Today? Still hovering around 80%. Two decades of "transition" bought us... two percentage points. The world doesn't run on electricity. It runs on steel, cement, ammonia, and plastics—the four pillars of modern civilization that are still almost entirely fossil-dependent. You can't smelt iron ore with good intentions. Nobody's decarbonized a blast furnace by just believing harder in the "Green Energy Transition"
I think most people are missing how Rivian is positioning itself as an EV platform provider in addition to an EV manufacturer. It took Tesla twelve years to become profitable from the time they began selling their first car. Unlike Tesla, which has struggled to actually ink any licensing deals for its hardware or software to date, Rivian was able to secure a $5.8B commitment from the VW Group within 4 years of its first vehicle rolling off the line, and the structure of the Rivian-VW joint venture ([RV Tech](https://rivianvw.tech/)) is the key differentiator here. VW is the sole source of capital investment into RV Tech as part of this deal. VW offered Rivian a $1B convertible note (which was of course converted and repaid with equity in RIVN) and $1.3B cash money in exchange for 1) 50% equity in RV Tech and 2) a licensing deal to use Rivian's existing IP in the meantime. VW will provide up to an additional $3.5B in funding for RV Tech through 2027. Rivian's main financial obligation is funding 25% of the shared platform R&D costs through 2028. And starting in 2029, VW will increase their funding by an incremental amount annually to further reduce Rivian's costs. This allows Rivian to develop its next-gen zonal architecture and base systems and infotainment software stacks using VW’s capital while retaining 50% ownership of the new IP. It's free real estate for Rivian. What Rivian considers its core DNA (drivetrain, battery design, and autonomy stack) are not part of this deal and will remain exclusive to them. Tesla’s valuation is definitely propped up by Musk hyping their energy, rideshare, and robotics divisions, but Rivian is the first EV startup to prove that its software and electronics architecture are valuable enough for a legacy giant to pivot its entire future toward it. With the R2 coming this year and the R3 in 2027/28, I just cannot see anything but growth for the company.
wait why? if oil becomes cheaper shouldn't the EV cars stock go down?
I’m RIVN bag holder and I’m not delusional enough to think Rivian is like Tesla. lol. EV companies will normalized to regular car companies, high operating cost and low margins. Tesla is the exception to the norm, because if Musk pumping TSLA.
They also let Tesla inside. Giga factory Shanghai was finished in 2019. The reason for this was to learn from the best and let home grown companies feel the competition. Now the roles are reversed. China has become the dominating EV maker in just a few years.
What about the other ICE makers how are their sales fairing. Tesla this Tesla that, I get that it gets eyeballs and views but the rise of China EV sales just means the end of the incumbent.
No American company can straight up beat Chinese EV companies. They’re not even close. Maybe with tariffs that triple the price of the competing cars, but even then with us car prices up so high they might still lose out. The US goofed bailing out the car companies they’re now worse than ever.
Would say EV companies should be put on notice, but I highly doubt these crooked crooks will pass any savings on to tax payers. Trickle down my waxed anoos.
PUT on EV related stocks. Will get cheaper to drive a gas car than an EV.
Lower EV demand is a myth. EVs had a record year in ‘25 and Tesla didn’t because Elon is a gross nerd and no one wants to be associated with him.
The overall market reaction will likely be minimal and temporary. There could be big gains in targeted defense related investments like defense contractors and especially domestic critical minerals. U.S.-based defense and military critical mineral stocks are looking even tastier in a world where Washington is willing to go as far as taking down hostile regimes like Venezuela’s leadership. Why that matters for critical minerals •The message to markets is simple: the U.S. is dead serious about securing strategic resources and eliminating geopolitical choke points, not just talking about “resilience” in white papers. •Every time a hostile or unstable producer gets knocked out of the game, the strategic value of friendly, onshore supply of defense related critical minerals goes up. What this means for U.S. names •U.S. critical‑mineral developers suddenly look less like niche miners and more like extensions of defense and foreign policy – which is exactly when subsidies, grants, priority permitting, and long‑term offtakes start to pile in. •Projects sitting in safe U.S. jurisdictions with clear links to jet engines, hypersonics, advanced armor, and high‑temperature magnets become the logical winners when foreign producers tied to hostile regimes are politically radioactive. The vibe for investors •This isn’t just about “EV metals” anymore – it’s about which assets Washington needs to succeed if it’s going to enforce hard‑power moves abroad and still keep the arsenal humming at home. •If the U.S. is willing to go as far as removing Venezuela’s president, it’s not going to hesitate to back domestic critical‑mineral supply with real money and real policy – and that is exactly where the upside in these stocks lives.
elon musk must feel like a cuck, danced to YMCA, paid for donnie’s campaign and the guy cancels EV credits and gets cheap oil 😭🤣
For those who don’t speak Chinese, “nei juan (内卷）”, literally means “internally rotate/spin”. The second word is the Chinese slang for brutal hustling/cut throat competition. And the “spin” is there to portray an imaginary of involuntary action (being spun by the environment) and endless cycle. It’s *really* hard to translate. But overall you can say the most “卷” country in the world is the U.S and China due to economic PvP server like hypercapitalism. But that aside, this is typical for Chinese strategy. The government would create a whole market using insane amount of industrial policy (subsidies, laws, etc), but the government doesn’t pick individual winner or lowers and expect the brutal capitalist competition to give rise to the strongest companies at the end. And in this case, it seems to be working. The best Chinese EVs are *really* good and the best Chinese EV companies *will* survive to be world class, even if it means so many others will crash and burn before things settle down.
It may be a milestone, but I suggest you search YouTube using the following titles before popping champagne corks and\\or waiting for Tesla's downfall (at least in China) *- China's EV Giant’s Profits Plunge 90%: Poor Quality, “Coffin Cars” Crash Sales, Biggest Layoffs Ever* *- BYD's Global Dream Ends: Shoddy Work, Unfixable Issues, Risk of Global Ban* *- BYD's chopstick-like suspension* The *entire* Chinese economy appears to be "tofu-dreg", counterfeit, fake! From buildings, to roads, to steel, phones, clothes, food (yes, even food is being faked!); military ships, planes, tanks, guns... (Re-posted without YouTube links)
Rivian's share price no longer reflects the company's current and future revenues. It's highly speculative, especially in the American market where the EV market is saturated. Chinese manufacturers like Xpeng, Nio, Xiaomi, Li Auto, and BYD have all increased their sales. Fortunately, the automotive market isn't a free market.
Well said. I think since option selling took off thanks to tastytrade education and YouTube tutorials and free equity trading became a thing, market makers and the big volatility trading firms narrowed the IV-RV spread, or the premium markup and mid price manipulation got smarter. Before when fewer people were selling premium, there was more sloppy fat on the bone, now the less profitable insurance model is pushed onto retail and 0DTE traders. What seemed like EV in theta harvesting is mostly gone. Compounding over time in the speculation game is generally a winning strategy, but only if risk management is implemented wisely. Everyone can be lucky, but can you stay in the game long enough to become more lucky?
Yup. TSLA may not have great fundamentals but they are the least shitty EV company
(Re-posted without YouTube links): Search YouTube for the following titles: \- China's EV Giant’s Profits Plunge 90%: Poor Quality, “Coffin Cars” Crash Sales, Biggest Layoffs Ever \- BYD's Global Dream Ends: Shoddy Work, Unfixable Issues, Risk of Global Ban \- BYD's chopstick-like suspension The whole of Chinese manufacturing appears to be "tofu-dreg", counterfeit, fake! From buildings, to roads, to steel, phones, clothes, food (yes, even food is being faked!)
Shhhhhh. You must not shatter the Reddit narrative BYD is the most successful EV company and a great investment opportunity.
Lmao I read the title as BYND worlds top EV seller. My first thought was they can't even sell their crappy fake meat, but they are selling cars now?
Yeah what a crazy strategy to sell cheap and win market share to become the biggest EV company...
BYD is struggling domestically just like all Chinese EV companies. They make almost no profit on local sales and a lot of their sales numbers are propped up by their distributors who are forced to buy the cars and immediately sell them on the market as “zero km” second hand cars. There’s a Chinese term called “nei juan” which is used to describe this situation where the domestic competition is so fierce that the winner ends up with a Pyrrhic victory because they have to nearly bankrupt themselves to win.
A cheap EV. All you need since FSD is just fancy cruise control which I would never use.
Interesting. So the business model is more about the commercial customer and dealerships not necessarily the individual consumer. We’ve owned our first EV the last 2 years and I don’t miss the oil changes and scheduled maintenance visits to dealerships. I have added washer fluid once. Using regenerative breaking and “one-pedal” breaking saves the break pads which I suspect will last close to the life of the car. Tires will be more frequent in an EV but there isn’t much else to maintain on an EV in a two to five year ownership period
No is going to buy EV if oil price flows around $40 next decade
Ignoring the resale value, yes. Although that was just the Chinese EV makers getting locked in a price war at the last bangkok motor show and were raining multiple-100k THB (~$3k USD) discount like candies.
I'm shocked! Bearing in mind ***the abysmal*** safety and quality record of BYD (and other manufacturers) EV's in China, I don't understand why the Chinese are still buying their cars. Exploding batteries; spontaneous combustion; door handles that can't\\wont open; navigation that doesn't work; self-driving mode that mistakes **a poster** of a person FOR A REAL PERSON, and executes an emergency stop IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD!!!; automatic emergency braking systems that don't work; airbags that don't deploy; cars that rust if a drop of water hits them... The list endless. Piss-poor quality. Virtually non-existent customer support; BYD are even suing BYD car owners for posting reviews critical of BYD cars\\support; In China, video's that are critical of BYD are being deleted by the CCP. It boggles my brain why anyone *would even think about* buying a car from such a company.
Good. Tesla is so overinflated and overvalued it's wild, not to mention their interior design, particularly dashboard is just horrendous and they've not really innovated with anything for years, other than just promising things and then never delivering them. Also F Elon Musk. What an absolute douchebag. China has come a long way from "Made in China means cheap and crappy" to some of incredible products that rival the best from the rest of the world. Of all Chinese car brands BYD seems to be the most highlighted. I'm still driving petrol car, but when time will be to switch to EV I'll be looking at BYD, Xiaomi and Hyundai. Assuming Xiaomi will make anything smaller and cheaper than their flagship S7 and will be present in EU... Hyundai on the other hand has been sort of a quiet leader in EVs. They've been making Ioniq EV for ages and while it wasn't making any headlines, it was apparently pretty nice EV. However that entirely changed with introduction of Ioniq 5 which has been highly praised as one of the best EVs out there in pretty much all aspects, range, the way it drives, the way it looks, how practical it is and how reliable Hyundai is in general. Inster seems to be quite popular too though I'm waiting for Ioniq 3 and Ioniq 2 eventually rolling out as 5 is just too expensive for my needs and Inster looks too funky for my liking. I'd prefer i20 or i30 format of EV car with current more conservative but modern Ioniq styling. But yeah, BYD is absolutely on my radar and apparently they are coming in my country this year. So, we'll see.
This is a significant milestone, but not a sudden shift. BYD's rise reflects years of vertical integration, cost control, and strong domestic policy support. Tesla still leads in margins, software, and brand globally, but BYD is clearly setting the pace on scale and affordability. The EV race is no longer just about technology, it's about execution.
Neuralink and SpaceX are not part of Tesla. Tesla EV’s are now the oldest still driving EV’s on the planet with the youngest model approx 7 years old. Not considering a facelift here. Musk has been all promises for years on end now.
There are some academic papers that suggest IV (on average) is more than RV. If that is true, like the papers claim, then selling vol has a positive EV over the long term (and many trades). -- But that's the biggest problem. You never know if IV is higher than RV till after the fact. So you have to presume that relationship holds up over time. Or the other way, which is what all these vol firms claim to do, is create statistically models to determine out that relationship in real time.
**Why are we subsidizing Tesla?** EV's, yes, but if a company can produce "Total production: 434,358" it doesn't matter that they're down 16%, they're making too many cars to need the "help". End it for Tesla and not the others. **Look At These Numbers that some chat bot pulled for me (the rest is me, swear):** I don't think the car company with both the #1 and #2 top selling EV's in the USA last year should receive subsidy. I'm not sure if these numbers are through Q4. Tesla has slightly over 40% of all EV's sold... NOT counting Cybertruck at #7. *That deserves it's own paragraph below this chart:* MFG | Units Sold | Total ---------|----------|---------- Tesla Y|265,068|25.5% Tesla 3|155,180|14.9% Chevy Equinox|52,834|5.1% Ford Mustang* Mach-E|41,962|4.0% Hyundai Iconiq 5|41,091|3.9% Honda Prologue|36,553|3.5% Tesla Cybertruck|25,973|2.5% Ford F-150 Lightning|23,034|2.2% Volkswagen ID.4|22,125|2.1% Chevy Blazer|20,825|2.0% **I'm also still $@#% they're calling that a Mustang.* **Cybertruck Owners:** Out purchased the Ford F150 Lightning, come on people, seriously? That alone is disturbing. You people don't deserve any tax breaks. And I know you Cybertruck-ers are probably pulling the old Section 179 so you can write off the entire purchase price on your next tax filing, but that's MORE of a reason not to subsidize it. You want it cheaper, AND you want a tax break on top of a tax break. Yes I know you can 179 a less repugnant vehicle you could do actual work with, that's not the point. You bought your house before real estate and loans got really stupid, probably bought the big metal doorstop as a goof, and now you're stuck with it's hilarious resale value. [Ha Ha.](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/quickly-tesla-cybertruck-depreciates-vs-120201668.html) #*And then, Mr. Musk:* WANTS THE SUBSIDY TO END, ACROSS THE BOARD because HE CAN compete without it. The others possibly cannot. Here's the callback: End it for Tesla and not the others. That's a 42%+ drop in subsidies. Does it seem like Elon prints money? Do the math.
Options have no EV. They only shape risk in different ways.
US TREASURY SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT SAID 2026 WILL BE THE LARGEST TAX REFUND YEAR IN HISTORY, PER FOX. My Zero-revenue-EV-pivot-to-AI-in-2025-company Calls are saved.
I never saw a stock that moves in such a strange manner completely removed from company performance as Tesla. I shorted it on last week Friday was hoping to make $5k ended up with only $1.5k. Why I chickened out and closed my position early and rather angry at myself, but you never know what Tesla cult will do and for a time today stock was up quite a bit. My guess there are no robots or self driving Teslas coming for at least another 3-5 years and with 2 consecutive YoY double digit sales and profitability drop in EV business, company might cease to exist till then. Yet there is a group of people determined to boost stock price at any cost
His minions were spamming "delivery record, it has become mainstream" last quarter. 16% may seem small, but in a world where the EV industry is up by at least that much, it’s not exactly promising. That said, given how this stock tends to move, it’s likely going to climb even higher.
Yes, they are selling a lot worldwide. Here in Brazil it's the most selled EV, it's becoming quite common to see one in the streets.
Even more reason for Tesla to sell the cars and not the taxi service. But I agree. And when you can take an EV taxi to work every day for a fraction of ownership costs, car ownership is really going to look different in the long run. I love driving, gas cars and stick shifts. But pretty soon that'll be an expensive hobby rather than just an aspect of the necessity of owning a car in America.
BYD just sold more EV cars than TSLA.
I’m in Australia and used to think Chinese EV’s were shit quality and still think most of the brands produce rubbish but BYD’s build standards and price point is pretty bloody good. Only thing is the BYD dealerships all have shit customer service. BYD would dominate the US if it wasn’t for the tariffs. BYD vehicles are everywhere here same with Haval Chery MG.
Tesla is the most popular EV in the world. That’s why I said it. Competition doesn’t matter
Personal preference in the US for significantly larger cars, which have smaller margins than smaller cars in the ev sphere. Broadly speaking, EV demand is driven by aggressive subsidies, and when those dry up, sales drop.
>"They do this to undercut and ultimately destroy western car industry" The classic We-The-Victim narrative. CHinA wAnTs to dEsTorY tHe wEsT... Ignores a lot of inconvenient facts. Never mind the Apple, Nike, Starbucks, McDonalds, KFC, Gucci, Louis Vuitton, ETC, (even fucking Super 8) operate openly and profitably in virtually every major Chinese city. If the Western auto industry gets wiped out, it won’t be because China wanted it dead, it’ll be because Western manufacturers failed to compete in a capitalist market. That’s not sabotage, that’s competition. Let’s talk subsidies, CSIS estimated that China gave out 230 billion in EV subsidies and other aid between **2009 and 2023**. and spread across the entire industry and numerous startups, not funneled into a single company. The US gives out approximately **$188 billion ANNUALLY** in federal corporate tax breaks. We clearly don't lack money. We lack the political will and strategic discipline to allocate resources in a way that encourages long term competition and innovation. If we lose, it won’t be because China destroyed us, it will be because we chose inefficiency, short-term profits, and complacency.
Replying to gingerhasyoursoul...our charging infrastructure isn’t on par with Europe’s. My apartment is right next to a WaWa. If that WaWa had chargers I’d happily get an EV and let it charge while I’m working out at Planet Fitness next door, but there aren’t any. I think there a lot of people in the US open to EVs when the ownership becomes more convenient, myself included.
It's not much, but I will never buy a Tesla in my life. I really want an EV, too. Musk has fucked up the brand for me forever.
?? The US has done the same. Subsidies for EV manufacturers all the way to purchasers. Dollar has devalued over the last year. Pressured others (eg EU) to adopt their economic hawkishness on China. The difference is China subsidised the industry as a whole and helped the winners scale. The US subsidised a billionaire with the right political access to create a monopoly which in turn killed any prospect of a wider domestic industry forming.
Eh it’s not well suited for rural areas of the country but there are a huge amount of people whose driving profile fits perfectly with EV capabilities.
Legacy not being able to make EVs profitably at scale and reversing their EV strategy is a good thing for Rivian. The OEMs are dropping the ball on the engineering side and Tesla is dropping the ball on the marketing side (plus not having any pipeline of new vehicles). The market is ripe for Rivian to walk in a take over in the next 3-5 years
BYD is now taking the Lead in EV’s
> The USA has about a 100% tariff on Chinese cars because it’s undermine the domestic corps. Doesn’t sound like a free market to me and more like crony capitalism EU does this too. It's because China subsidies their EV car makers with an insane amount of money. It's not just direct payments, but mostly indirect support throughout tax rebates, zero-interest loans and most importantly support for manufacturers along the supply line, which give car manufacturers very cheap access to parts and materials. They do this to undercut and ultimately destroy western car industry. Yes, Western countries subsidize their car industry too, but not to the degree China does.
Model Y is still the most sold EV globally
Or maybe Tesla was one of the few (only?) EV makers that could actually get their product to them? I don't know that market... just guessing. Either way, they must be hungry for EVs!
yeah, seems I was right. 7% in one month (september), not for an entire year. 10% in EVs for entire year. “In the first nine months of the year, Chinese brands won a 10.7% share of Western Europe’s EV sales”
Yes, altough they wouldn't be able to make them at the same price, and the market is fairly small. They are building plants in Europe, but the European car industry is a more modern than the North American one especially regarding EV production goes, and the market is bigger, so it's probably a more attractive proposition. There was a plan for a Mexico plant but it got canned I think. It's unclear if the Canadian governement would even approuve a BYD plant in the country, there would be a lot of lobbying from the industry and the US governement against the project.
EV’s aren’t that popular in the US. But they’re extremely popular in other modern countries. Our geography just is not well suited to EV charging
Chinas sales are also not just in China lol…but yes, their products are silly and stale now. Not sure how much longer the EU manufacturers can sustain their EV products, but we’ll see.
Tesla is a company losing EV market share with a CEO who dilutes shareholder ownership and spends money on fuck all, all while promising FSD and robots “coming soon” Which is exactly why it’ll go back to 500 at some point lmao
>he just got there first and all these other car companies proving it’s not hard to replicate Huh? Other companies are *scaling back* EV operations. Volkswagen, Ford, GM, Mercedes, and Stellantis have all axed EV models in 2025. Don't take this comment as defending Musk, far from it, but this part is just completely incorrect. EVs just don't work for the majority of people yet.