GM

Creative-Cranberry47

the problem with that thought is that legacy insurers they all grow at single digits or most of them are losing customers. ROOT was one of two auto insurers that actually grew customers in 2024. the better way to evaluate is through growth or PEG, which if ROOT grew at 50% CAGR it would deserve a 50X multiple comparatively for a PEG of 1. Its like comparing TSLA to F or GM, where TSLA trades at 20X+ valuations but do less revenue, and thats because of their growth prospects. Another comparable is HOOD with SCHW. HOOD trades at less than 15% of sales but trades at half the market cap. thats due to profit efficiency & growth. Same here with ROOT. ROOT is innovative and is completely dominating the embedded insurance space, and growing at levels where no legacy insurer has tracked before. As for margins, ROOT has best in class loss ratios, superior pricing, and a leading tech stack that is decade+ ahead of legacy insurers. ROOT will eventually have a 75% CR(25% profit margin), making them 2-5X more profit efficient than their legacy counterparts. thats like 1 ROOT policy to 5 All state policies. so the margins isn't the thing and if anything ROOT would eventually have better margins than their peers, as they continue to grow.

8675309l

Possible. I don’t believe he’s shaking down countries many won’t play his game but he will shake down American companies. Imagine if Ford has to pay tariffs but GM doesn’t because GM donated funds to some cronies or they host a big Trump rally at a factory. Could very well be a direction we head in.

Atrain4315

If you buy GM/Ford cars, use toilet paper, toothpaste, or use oil/gas to heat your home, you probably do

alienisfunycas3

Not a scam but they're burning cash, if you look at equity reports they don't become positive GM until like FY26+ and that's optimistic on their technology coming into fruition.

One-Hovercraft-1935

They netted a loss because the mining industry is incredibly capital intensive. The U.S. had no need to have domestic production of REE's when in the past, we've relied on our imports. In recent years, China has placed multiple bans on REE's and other critical elements necessary to support our economy. They've since been lifted, but why would we continue to rely on them if they can do that at any time? This is where things are changing, the past does not indicate anything because the U.S. has never been a major producer of REE's. Securing these magnets and NdPr is a matter of national security. That is why the Department of Defense is funding them which is huge. You need to understand that these aren't just magnets. They are the strongest commercially available magnets. I say it is a matter of national security because they are crucial in fighter jets, naval systems, missile defense, satellites, etc. The company is set to start commercial production of NdFeB magnets in late 2025. They already have a long-term deal with GM and will have the ability to supply magnets for 500,000 EV's a year.

SPQR0027

Moral hazard contributed to the 2007-2009 collapse. GM should have died. Same with AIG. Tough medicine, but facts.

WSB3220

I mean sure to your point about finding justifications, but would you have rather seen the financial landscape collapse in 2008/2009? Or a major employer in GM go under? It’s a good discussion in my opinion

_____3

WHITENET represents the kind of resilient infrastructure today's volatile markets demand. While legacy giants like Chevron, McDonald's, and GM face regulatory and tariff shocks in Brazil, decentralized networks like WHITENET operate borderlessly, immune to political retaliation and centralized risk. As traditional finance gets squeezed by geopolitics, WHITENET offers a foundation for global, permissionless trade and real-world asset tokenization without the overhead of jurisdictional friction.

Crazy-Cat1063

I’m sitting out earnings. My intel and AT&T cash covered puts expire in the next two weeks and if I don’t get assigned might do one for GM after earnings

crosstherubicon

Yep, well aware of that. But, thanks to the taxpayer, the new GM is still in the marketplace.

neverpost4

GM is not the old GM which was bankrupt in 2008. This is the new GM. Old GM shareholders were completely wiped out. Heck even many bond holders got pennies on dollar back.

crosstherubicon

Because they’re, Ford, GM. Some don’t have a choice.

TehPwnStar

WKSP has been doing great for me the last couple days. Sticking with it until at least $6 bucks. Way too many bots pumping it, but the data that I researched in it has been accurate on the website and articles I read that make the company look good long term & hit on it now short term while it catches up to what it should be valued at. Info - 📈 Financials: Revenue grew 10× (2023: $1.5M → 2025 guide: $20M) Gross margin doubled to 23%, aiming for 30% 🛠️ Product: SOLIS solar cover + COR 2.5 kWh battery launching this fall. Early beta units sold out. 🚚 Pilot fleet: 1,000-truck builder is paying to test. Success = larger rollout + fast lane to federal contracts. 📑 OEM path: ISO 9001 certified; MPPT tech works across voltages. Early engagement reported with Ford, GM, Hyundai. 🚀 Marketing: Chief of Chaos (ex-Uber creatives) running viral campaign. Big reach, small float = explosive setup. 📉 Risks: Pre-profit, limited cash, and the SOLIS ramp needs to hit timelines or dilution becomes a factor.

oursecretmoments

Yes, GM also has a nice stake. However, China is still involved it was just “moved away” in a strategic way. Lithium Americas has historical ties to Chinese investment, through Ganfeng Lithium's shareholding. The company separated its Argentina operations from its North American projects to distance itself from potential funding concerns related to foreign ownership (required by GM), but Ganfeng is still involved, and China is still a player in Lithium Americas.

Typical_Regular_7973

Yeah, keeping an eye on F and GM. Both deserve to be much lower than what they are trading at. I can't justify a P/E ratio of more than 5.5 for autos in this environment. Hoping this market doesn't stay regarded for longer.

kenso4life

>but owned by Canada and China. Hold off on anything Lithium until the next election China has **zero** interest in this company. The US DOE on the other hand, granted lithium america's $2.26 Billion. You may want to look at how deep GM is in on this one as well Hold off at your own peril.

tylerrb97

**A regarded bet with GM backing and DOE support That’s basically as smart as we get on WSB lol Jokes aside LAC could seriously pop if lithium starts running**

United-Bluejay-1133

Yea GM, Ford, and Stellantis mention in practically every earnings call how much better they would’ve done if those pesky Vietnamese tariffs hadn’t prevented them from selling SUVs in the absolutely bustling SUV market of Vietnam.

kuznamortis

In fact the factory jobs were leaving the US. Look at John deer and GM. They left last I saw or heard of.

TheLongestLake

That's fair it is asymmetrical with electric cars getting 100% of the benefit with the fines split among ICE cars. Still, it looks like GM pays 100M+ per year and presumably this is still after they price their gas guzzler high/EVs low to offset some of their own imbalance.

Safe_Manner_1879

>I think you're making a great point that I overlooked Thanks, it a pleasure then a redditer actually can answer in a rational way. >mountain to climb before it's something that investors can consider truly impactful. Then FSD working as intended, its software that you can sell to existing the Tesla owners, it will also be the "killer app" that drive the sales of Tesla vehicles. It will have a impact day one. Later FSD that working as intended will totally revolutionize society. >its more likely we see earnings in the red before we see them in the green. I disagree, Elon is haunted by the time Tesla almost did go bankrupt, and in "modern time" have always ensure Tesla did end in green, and keep the loans small compare to other vehicle manufacturers. He have made some economic "manipulation" to make it happen, like sell Bitcoin (whose value had increased) recognize more ZEV credits and FSD income, compare to the last quarter Tesla did buy about 5 billion dollar of GPU(s) last year, to its super computer cluster. If the margin on vehicle do decline, Tesla cant buy as many GPU(s) and accept that making FSD working as intended, will take longer time. >In terms of their robotaxi, I'm no engineer so I can't speak to its functionality. You can make a neutral network that can drive a racing game "perfect" on your PC given time. The real word are magnitudes more complex then a racing game. But a super computer cluster are magnitudes more powerful then your PC. Given time, it should make a neutral network that can drive "perfect" >What I do believe however, is that the turning point for Tesla is on its way or potentially already here. Yes that is the million dollar question, can Tesla make FSD working as intended. The market believe so hence the high valuation. >Tesla has an opportunity to put distance between it and Elon while also navigating itself to a more subtle and quiet company focused more on tech such as energy storage and robotaxi. I totally understand way Elon did support Trump, Biden was supported by GM/union, and we have Biden say things like GM is leading the electric car development, and did treat Tesla very step-motherly. But all this political shit talking and political activism... I wish Elon did not do that. The problem is that Elon is Tesla, it was Elon vision of energy storage, It was Elon who canned Model 2 in favor for Cybercab. Because Model 2 is outdated compare to a working as intended Cybercab. If Elon is gone, Tesla will be the new Apple, they make a huge amount of money, but is to afraid to rock the boat, and have not made a new successful big product, after Steve Jobs did leave. Only refinement of existing products. There are no irobot or icar, or i(somthing) that I did not know that I miss in my life.

that_noodle_guy

Just look at the history of the milestone companies. First to 1b was US Steel in 1901 First to 10b was GM in 1955 First to 100b was GE in 1995 First to 1T was Apple in 2018 Each step along the way the next one seemed equally ridiculous. How many 1b companies are there today, when there was just 1 it seemed insane now it's commonplace.

Mousemou

Now it's time to Buy USA. GM and Ford make better cars!

Wowmuchrya

It is literally what happened when Tesla entered the scene and put pressure on other companies margins. It's the whole reason GM and F have not moved in 5+ years. If you don't believe he would throw his "money" (fake pixels) out the window just to fuck shit up when he has repeatedly cut Tesla's prices then idk what to say.

Wowmuchrya

You do realize if Elon really just wanted to punish the whole NA car industry he could cut prices on all Tesla's for a couple months, take a loss, and force GM/Ford/Stellantis to all take major hits to their bottom line as well, right? I don't think people get that. He has 400b. He can subsidize that $7500 himself as a big fuck you to the government.

Visible_Theme4482

If India opens up its market for Agricultural, GM, and dairy products, it would be the Next government negotiating the later terms of the deal. They would maybe agree on automobiles, defence and other stuff, but agriculture? No one is touching that, it would be a political sui**de.

Sufficient-Gold8870

Auto manufacturing. We have orders on top of order from customers but we are not getting the engine block castings or certain necessary components to be able to complete them and send them out. GM has been on the foundry’s asses according to upper management and we are in a standstill so to speak. We have some work but we are burning through it too fast so we are shutting down for the two weeks to avoid anything longer. Upper management all love 🥭 but are blaming tariffs

DigitalArbitrage

People who bought GM during the Great Recession thought this too.

vitreous-user

you're describing the promises of AI but the reality is it will only be used to sell consumers things, think hyper-targeted advertising.   this always happens with new tech: there are utopian promises to sell the idea and then the actual use case is capitalism.  GM foods, for example, came with promises of bigger yields, more nutrition, disease resistance, etc, but the tech has only ever been used to make glyphosate-resistant plants so chemical companies can sell more glyphosate.

grip_n_Ripper

Mirror pepe emoji. GM, Thiccums.

Infamous_Ad8730

But SGOV is far safer than GM and pays 4.7%.

Deckard95

Demand Notes are an option. The Toyota Income Driver ones are currently at 4.25% GM is listed at 4.5% [https://www.incomedrivernotes.com/en.html](https://www.incomedrivernotes.com/en.html) [https://www.firstclassdemandnotes.com/](https://www.firstclassdemandnotes.com/) [https://www.rightnotes.com/en-us/home.html](https://www.rightnotes.com/en-us/home.html) [https://investors.dominionenergy.com/fixed-income-dominion-energy-reliability-investment/dominion-energy-reliability-investment/default.aspx](https://investors.dominionenergy.com/fixed-income-dominion-energy-reliability-investment/dominion-energy-reliability-investment/default.aspx) [https://www.duke-energy.com/investor-relations/individual-investors/premiernotes-investment](https://www.duke-energy.com/investor-relations/individual-investors/premiernotes-investment) [https://www.ford.com/finance/investor-center/ford-interest-advantage/](https://www.ford.com/finance/investor-center/ford-interest-advantage/) [https://www.caterpillar.com/en/brands/cat-financial/invest/powerinvestment.html](https://www.caterpillar.com/en/brands/cat-financial/invest/powerinvestment.html) If you're concerned about their safety, read over this post about how GM maintained their payments during their 2009 bankruptcy: [https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=340088](https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=340088)

Independent-Tree-985

Damn, without tesla we'll have to buy Ford or GM EVs. Volkswagon or Honda. BYD even. RIP. We'll never replace tesla.

komrobert

Fair, we’ll see how the Gravity ramps up - reviewers seem to really like it but it’s expensive and they don’t have the great lease deals that GM EVs have.

AgentSmith187

Only of they didnt know about GM reliability and quality control lol Then again some people buy Range Rovers....

AgentSmith187

They are buying Mercedes or BMWs not Ford and whatever junk GM sends.

No_Arm_6582

Let me start by saying I like EV’s. My wife and I both have one. But, it’s funny how BYD can make a decent looking midsize sedan for 25-35k depending on the trim level. Yet Ford and GM stomp their feet and hiss, insisting they can’t even profit on EV’s at almost twice that price and need more government money. Such a lie and a scam. Allow BYD to export to the US and watch prices drop

PM_ME_UR_DRAG_CURVE

> luxury sedans Or even luxury SUVs of non-american origin. A lot of luxury German stuff are even made in SEA now (Mercedes in Thailand, Porsche in Malaysia, probably others). Try sitting in one of those back-to-back with a rental-special GM garbage and feel the despair of whichever poor sod will get stuck trying to peddle one.

Matt2_ASC

Ford sales were up 14% in Q2 compared to prior year Q2. GM Q2 is up 7% compared to prior year.

SignificantGlove9869

LOL. Not even Europe is doing this, bc it would hurt their entire car sector. Ford, GM, VAG, Toyota, Opel and others would be finished.

Burcea_Capitanul

USA better start building GM tuk-tuks

Helpful_Let_5265

"While worse in the short term, this is almost assuradely benifitial for them in the long run. Musk has even been asking for it to happen, which should probably tell you as much." I have a lot of doubts on this. Tesla and GM are about the only manufacturers right now that qualify for the credit across their lineup due to the made in america requirements. Pretty much everyone else has like a model or two but mostly doesn't qualify for the full amount. "Tesla is now stable enough (relatively, sales are obv declining but they're profitable which is the key part) that they no longer need their manufacturing to be subsidized... but all their competition still does. So taking away the rebate helps to build Tesla an industry moat with a high barrier to enter" I guess I'm not sure I agree here either. Most of these losses (if any, some of these companies are already saying they are profitable on a per unit basis) will be absorbed ICE manufacturing profits from your traditional automakers. It may stop the likes of companies like Rivian and Lucid from popping up, but Tesla is at a distinct disadvantage because when fewer people buy EVs they are likely buying ICE and hybrids which they don't offer. Teslas sales by year in the U.S.: 2020 - 292,902 2021 - 301,998 Enter $7,500 EV credit 2022 - 536,069 2023 - 670,000 2024 - 516,597 2025 - looks like it will be even less I just don't see how going back to 2021 sales numbers is going to help them at all. If anything it helps ICE manufacturers as fewer people are buying EVs, or it eats into Teslas profit margins and they have to lower their prices to cover it. Either scenario seems bad. On top of that the bill nullifies the penalties for failing to meet the CAFE standards so Tesla's regulatory credits which represents billions in revenue also goes away and goes back into the pockets of your Stellantis, Ford, GMs, Toyotas, Hondas of the world. There is a real possibility Tesla actually ends up losing money in 2026 absent some sort of significant uptick in their Robotaxi business or solar business which is also going to be substantially hurt by the bill but just further down the line.

toedwy0716

Jfc he’s so dumb. Vietnam is giving total access to US goods because it doesn’t fucking matter to them. They already make everything so much cheaper. Ford or GM aren’t going to be sending Explorers and Yukons to Vietnam because no one can afford them and they wouldn’t fit on their roads. They took this deal because 20% is probably the best they could get. They gave up nothing and the US citizens get to pay a 20% markup on the wholesale price of goods coming from Vietnam. It’s just so fucking dumb.

mackdaddy1992

Can't wait to see the sales numbers for the Cadillac Escalade out of Ho Chi Minh City. Should really knock GM's socks off

webesy

A standard GM pickup barely fits on roads in Europe let alone Vietnam

Even-Leave4099

For GM and Ford to compete with the Chinese or even the Koreans, Japanese and Europeans they need government subsidies and support because all of them are doing it already. The problem with America is the short-sighted vision of these republicans.  Gutting their support for electric cars and emission controls boggles the rational mind. Their cars will be irrelevant to the world except for american boomers. 

Supertainment

Yup, I have calls for 2027 at $3 and $7.50. Aside from that I have 1k shares as a 10 year hold and I'm building it bigger every day. 2 billion DoE loan, GM joint venture; If my money burns up in this play, I can never fault myself for how I read it. Dirt cheap rn and I am astounded every day that I can keep buying below my cost.

elysiansaurus

On the other hand, GM is up 110% YoY. I like Ford, I do, but the Mach E is too expensive, which is why the Equinox is crushing it. Well, and right now they can't even sell them due to the stop sale. Feel like Ford's skunkworks team has been fucking around for years, that affordable ev needs to launch soon. GM also has the bolt launching soon.

SPQR0027

Eliminating the carbon credit spend may be helping GM and Ford today.

no_reddit_for_you

How many cars are Ford and GM selling globally? Don't see many of those across the world tbh and I'm a frequent traveler... Toyota, Honda, yes.

ramirex

they already do. GM and Ford would instantly die in both EV and ICE markets as soon as tariffs for imported cars are removed

TheTimeIsChow

At the end of the day, automakers base decisions on market demand. Not what the federal government thinks is best. If the trend points towards a global EV future? This is the direction they will go. If not? Then they won't. Trump can yell at the sky all he wants... it doesn't fucking matter. Ford/GM/etc. aren't going to just nod their head, keep pumping out gas vehicles, and watch their entire market dissolve.

Creative-Cranberry47

actually there are multiple insurers with a 75% CR. i made a list a while back but KNSL for one has a 75% CR for the long term. you have to understand that ROOT isn't your ordinary insurer. It is doing things that no other insurer has done before, and thats underwriting risk correctly, and getting the best loss ratios from it. Secondly they are bringing down SGA expenses drastically due to their tech stack, ai and automation. No insurer is doing what ROOT is doing in terms of efficiency, and when you get that type of combination, you'll get results like a 75% CR in the long term. ROOT is doing everything better than Geico other than size. i only threw Geico in there to give you an idea, but ROOT will be more efficient than Geico. Geico overhired, and when you build the company from the bottom like ROOT, management can easily maintain efficiencies, without deadweights. When ROOT can cherry pick policies due to risk, thats where ROOT comes in very similar to specialty insurers who are putting forth 75% CRs. its not your typical auto insurer. What ROOT is doing is what TSLA did to the auto industry by removing the middleman and making it more profit efficient. it deserves a valuation multiple, just like how TSLA trades at 30X GM, F but yet has less revenue. No one is comparing TSLA to legacy automakers, when legacy automakers are slowly dying. thats also the exact reason why you shouldn't be comparing ROOT to legacy insurers who are losing customers/growing at single digits. ROOT will be 2-5X more profit efficient than their legacy counterparts, and should deserve a valuation multiple due to profit efficiency, growth, and tech. The perfect example is Tsla versus legacy automakers or even HOOD versus legacy brokerages. No insurer is going to do embedded insurance like how ROOT does it. Look at the list of partners that are lining up here. Legacy insurers can't build embedded platforms period. No other insurer is going to be able to cross-sell like how ROOT does it, significantly increasing LTV of customers & margins because of it. as for cross-selling, according to JD Power, if a policy is bundled, the customer will hold the policy for about 30% longer, and it opens the market up by another 37% for customers who only shop for bundled policies. Why that is important? thats because with the 1.4Bish cash that ROOT may receive from CVNA warrants, that could potentially be used to acquire another product front loading growth, and potentially doubling revenue growth. legacy insurers have nothing against ROOT. It will only take a small amount of PIF growth, to bring in strong NI. you're simply not bullish enough.

Humble_Increase7503

HOOD $10/$12 leaps; bought in 2022. I just want to thank wsb for always being negative on HOOD. GM E dummies being bitter made people bearish in this stock, giving me plenty of time to load up on leaps. It made me a ton of money, and I just want to reiterate my belief that inversing this sub is a sure fire way to make money.

dvdmovie1

Even before Trump, legacy auto has been a lousy sector. It was clear that it was going to be a tariff focus so a sector that - with few exceptions (Toyota, Tesla, Ferrari) - already hasn't delivered compelling shareholder returns in ages just seems even less compelling. People keep giving F and GM second and third and fourth chances and meanwhile GM is up 45% since 2010. Could have done a lot better in more boring stocks not in an industry that is generally okay when times are good and lousy the moment things turn South.

dvdmovie1

"Japanese carmakers took a hit already Toyota, Honda, Nissan all down in Tokyo. " I think the issue that I have with something like this is that people now focus on the impact of every single Trump speech but not on the fact that aside from Toyota, is there a legacy car company that has done really well over the long-term? Honda stock is around where it was 20 years ago. Nissan has had issues and is back to about where it was in 1999 but even before the recent troubles it hadn't really gone anywhere much in years. You have all these companies that have done maybe okay when times are good and are in the toilet the moment times are bad. Yes, what Trump says/does will have an impact - an impact on an industry that has traditionally already not exactly rewarded shareholders over the long-term with very few exceptions. "Meanwhile, GM and Ford might get a boost short term, but their supply chains are global too so it’s not all upside" The legacy automobile industry is just not a great industry. I've seen so many people keep trying to give things like F and GM second and third and fourth chances over the years and they're inevitably disappointed (and probably could have done better in something like PG and had much less stress.)

jvro1

From my bro chatgpt Ally Financial (ALLY) – major auto loan provider Santander Consumer USA (SC) – heavily focused on subprime auto lending Capital One Financial (COF) – significant auto loan exposure Wells Fargo (WFC) & Bank of America (BAC) – large indirect auto lending arms GM Financial (owned by GM) and Ford Credit (privately held but benefits GM/Ford)

insidiousfruit

US auto companies like Ford and GM. They have revenues as large as Google and larger than Tesla, but they are only worth 50 billion dollars. At the very least, they tend to go down in value less than major growth and tech stocks in market crashes because of how low in value they are.

norcalnatv

dude, they've been trying, and losing market share, since AMD bought ATI in 2006. You say it like it's easy. I come from this industry and you have no idea how hard it is. People don't understand GPUs are Jensen's turf, not Lisa's. She's too conservative and never hires the right GM or VP ENG for GPU. She never invested in SW and now she's playing catchup. 20% Ain't going to happen. Or it would have already, shit just gets harder from here, not easier.

PopperChopper

Yes it is. Oakville assembly is shut down for retool. Windsor assembly is on rotating layoffs due to poor sales. Brampton assembly is down and has been down for almost 2 years now with retooling paused. Cami just lost a shift and is going to be moving product to the states. GM oshawa is down to 1 shift and are losing products as well. In 2023 they were pumping out a million cars per year or more between them.

True-Bet269

I did something similar with GM-E a few years ago. Honestly? You should stop fucking with options. Buy and hold and wait for dips and buy HARD and then in a few years bro the snowball effect is so real. Don’t waste anymore time, it needs to start ASAP and have time to grow.

Foodwraith

3% tax approved years ago and in compliance with NAFTA and USMCA, causing little disruption to big companies like Facebook or Google vs 50% tarriff on steel and aluminum, illegal per NAFTA and USMCA that causes significant disruption to numerous US companies. Eg Ford, GM, etc.

CharacterConstant826

5k puts july 3 for GM (48$) and ford (10.50$). Will it print considering Trump tariffs threats against Canada or am I regarded?

Decent_Project_3395

Might want to give Ford and GM a head's up as well, as they will actually be footing the bill.

LeagueHonest6580

I interviewed at two new restaurants this year, both of which belonged to well regarded groups in a top 5 culinary city in America. I was interviewing for a GM position and have experience with opening operations and I know what they involve. I've also got a pretty damn good track record at it. So I asked both these owners a lot of questions regarding the first few months, what their goals were and how they were going to measure success. What do they want to see out of these concepts and how would *they* like to see things achieved. What would you like to see out of your GM, what goals are important. I like getting a sense of what the passions and priorities are, especially because those are very important with new beginnings. 1 straight up said "I wanna make a shit load of money bro. That's the goal". *No fucking shit*. That's your ownership wisdom? Why the fuck am I even talking to you then, you provide absolutely nothing of substance. The other gave me basically the same answer but with far more worthless verbage. I told both of them they weren't worth my time and they looked appalled. I'm now moving elsewhere after landing essentially my dream job, with an owner who exuded passion and substance.

Wolfofphx

Also consider the main companies get bailed out of every economic disaster. (Not just insurance, but in general) example: GM, ford, banks, etc.

Puzzleheaded-Rush12

Tesla stock is baked into millions of 401ks and IRAs. A trillion dollar company isn't going away. Its market cap is bigger than GM+Ford+Honda+Toyota+BMW+Mercedes+Hyundai combined. As we both know, Tesla stock is immune from normal pricing pressures. The market loves Tesla. Even with all the craziness of the last 6 months, Tesla is up 80% in the last 12 months. It's gonna be around for a long, long time.

JustAFancyApe

I love my 2017 Chevy Bolt EV with just as much range. Not as nice as a Tesla, but I love it. 197,000 km and still awesome. GM 46 billion dollar market cap and 44 billion revenue, 2.78 billion net income. TSLA 1,030 billion dollar market cap (that's $984,000,000,000 higher than General Motors) and 19.34 billion revenue, 0.409 billion net income. No one, and I mean no one can justify the stock valuation. It's legitimately insane. Even with the hopes and dreams for the future it's insane. The stock market doesn't give a fuck how much you like your Tesla, the numbers don't lie, and the day of reckoning is coming.

MutaliskGluon

They are almost certaintly declaring revenues too soon and placing things on AR before they should. The way their AR AP and FCF all relate is really weird and looks like some early revenue reconciliation that is a red flag. Kinda ponzi like in a way, but since they are still growing fast nothing is happening, but you can tell by the GM% QoQ declining pretty rapidly that its gonna end soon. Theres also EXTREMELY shady stuff going on with CRWV and other hyperscalars with some revenue round tripping and fraudulent accounting practices on the depreciation of the GPUs. But SEC essentually doesnt exist now, so it will likely never become obvious until well after funds dump "for no reason" and retail wonders why the stock is selling off "for no reason". NVDA next ER is gonna have an INSANE headline number as the M2M their CRWV gains and show a stupid high profit number that will look much worse once stripping out that 1 time non operational gain. Call me a clown all you want, whatever. Im not a clown. Im a bear. Rawr

duovtak

It’s got no head room, and what do you think you know about GM that the entire rest of the world doesn’t? You have no advantage over any other trader.

ThinkingOfTheOldDays

GM is not computer

Narcissist_X

GM is the biggest POS stuck in the mud stock, fml

frizzolicious

If the geofencing is accurate they have had no contact with GM. VW is essentially powerco which they already have an agreement with.

twenson

They already confirmed two OEMs are expected to sign this year. If I had to guess one could be VW again (they’ve got history), and maybe Hyundai or GM as the second? Both are pushing into EV hard

RiskyPhoenix

No, it’s literally 12 cars supervised by workers ready to intervene. That’s not unsupervised. Waymo doesn’t need car distribution to threaten Tesla, they can run their own fleet and license the tech to be used for existing automakers, which they’re currently doing with Toyota. Plus like I mentioned, Mercedes, BMW, VW, GM, and Ford all are working on their own versions of hands free driving.

GhostofBreadDragons

Tesla went up in value more that the combined worth of both Ford and GM the day after the robotaxis even was delayed 3 times and required safety riders. I have no idea how they can consider Sunday a success. What would a failure have looked like? 

ixvst01

[Top 10% of earners account for over 50% of all consumer spending](https://www.wsj.com/economy/consumers/us-economy-strength-rich-spending-2c34a571?gaa_at=eafs&gaa_n=ASWzDAiJG6v6XLhl8RuNuVGxEGU7VsOF_eo6QAy6g4R1GM-fI0SPbruh8ELF&gaa_ts=685a14ef&gaa_sig=ytMS1myW-ntQuiRvlGHqSD6-HxaxeF-Quq7mwHX_erH-LEGMIifuN4GJMRSY_gkY8kDL08-Xqz1sloJrmjhfpA%3D%3D)

RiskyPhoenix

Because the robotaxi thing requires remote intervention at a high enough rate that they still need human supervision, which eliminates most of the financial benefits of self driving robotaxis. And if you simple consider it a value add to their usual car sales, you also somehow have to justify that their sales are simultaneously dropping in all their core markets while their self driving competitors (GM, Ford, Mercedes, BMW, VW) all are catching up and offer hands free features. That’s not even touching the brand damage side of things, because most liberal folks I know would never buy a Tesla after DOGE, and that’s traditionally Tesla’s core audience. So I guess the question is, if the self driving is so good, where is that going drive profits that justify even half of the current valuation?

iphonehome9

Tesla has revenue of 20 billion and a market cap of 1.1 trillion. GM has revenue of 44 billion and a market cap of 46 billion. Both companies make electric vehicles and have fairly advanced driver assistance tech. Someone please explain to me what has to happen for Teslas stock to drop to a more reasonable $7 per share?

whatchagonadot

well, I got a buck dividend from GM, lucky me, now I can buy some stuff at the dollar store.

thebiglebowskiisfine

Removal of the tax credit only benefits Tesla. How much money do you think Rivian, GM, and Ford can continue to lose on every unit? They have already lost billions. They have zero vertical integration. They are going to collapse - Musk was the one cheering on the elimination of the tax credit since 2021. They will eventually shutter their programs. Tesla will be the last man standing. They are also cutting solar credits - does that mean solar is going away? I'm delusional? Bro, did you do ANY research outside of CNBC before placing this bet? [https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/trumps-transportation-secretary-sean-p-duffy-unveils-new-automated-vehicle-framework](https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/trumps-transportation-secretary-sean-p-duffy-unveils-new-automated-vehicle-framework) Again - it's right there in front of you and you missed it.

Infinite-Truth-6381

It’s kind of crazy to think that, even back in the 1930s and 40s, people were speculating on the markets to try to make money while the largest war in the world was going on. Probably had friends or family drafted to the front lines and they were thinking “yeah I think GM and U.S. Steel are way too cheap right now. With all the war time production, they should be making record profits.” Fucking degens.

Secret_Account07

This is the president of the United States. If I was GM at McDonald’s you would call me an immature buffoon if I talked this way. Naturally, we put him in charge of an entire fucking country 😑

Acrobatic_Force7954

I don’t know, but it looks like that it was all hype that drove sales, especially now that the playing field has leveled a lot because there is a lot more competitors in the robotics, electric vehicles and autonomous driving businesses. I feel that Bill Gates, Jeff, Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, or any other hyper scaler CEOs that had the tasks that Elon had would’ve been successful. If not more. I cannot deny the fact that obviously his net worth shows his impact his development of his businesses and his intelligence, those are pure facts, but in regards to the business or businesses that he has or that Tesla has I think personally he has stiff competition moving forward I think a lot of this is banking off of the Robo taxi in monetizing vehicles, let’s see if he can pull it off. I see a lot more Rivian‘s on the road. GM has sold more EV’s this year than ever. You know Honda and Hyundai are coming to play and out of nowhere, lucid motors are popping up all over the road, which is just wild to even imagine given the cost of their vehicles and from a perspective of practicality no offense that anybody that enjoys or likes Tesla, Rivian looks to be in regards the vehicle of choice not just for consumers but for businesses.

ElectricalGene6146

Big red flag that cofounder recently left to join GM.

BrewerCollie

LAC - Trading at $2.62 or something. They'll be operating the Thacker Pass lithium mine in Northern Nevada, North America's largest discovered lithium deposit, in a joint venture with General Motors to produce lithium for GM EVs.

CSCAnalytics

Now do the 70’s with Exxon Mobil, the 60’s without IBM + AT&T, the 50’s without GM, the 30’s without standard oil. Of course if you remove the market dominant mega corporations of the decade, the chart doesn’t look good. It’s been shown that the top performing ~4% of stocks contribute to the market gains annually, while 99% of individual companies don’t even beat treasury bills in the long run when you account for bankruptcies and corporate failures. That’s why Index funds exist and outperform active investing, where you’re guaranteed to reap the gains of all dominant companies every year in every sector. Also why Markowitz won the Nobel peace price and created “Modern Portfolio Theory” in the 50’s.

LCJonSnow

That doesn't mean shit for stock ownership. GM was too big to fail. GM shareholders before '08 were wiped out.

threeriversbikeguy

CapEx is locked away until its absolutely necessary at companies that depend on imports. Excluding of course dogs like GM that are always in debt up the butt and make you little money anyways.

VariationAgreeable29

Zero auto makers who aren’t currently selling cars in Europe have any interest in exporting their cars to Europe. It is a brutally cutthroat market. The EU knows that promising Trump no tariffs on imported cars from America is literally a nothingburger. GM sold all of its operations in Europe decades ago because of how unprofitable the market is.

ArseTrumpetsGoPoot

Put your crayons down and pay attention. I'm not going to go over this again. **VAT is not a targetted tax**. It is like sales tax in America - it applies to (virtually) everything you buy, whether made domestically or imported. And the reason Europeans don't buy American Fords or Chevys is that they are completely unsuited to European roads (and poorly made, but that's another story). That's why Ford has a specific business unit for Europe, building cars for European roads. And GM does the same, with their Opel brand. Your Fords and Chevys, by the way, are mostly not made in America, but in Mexico and Canada, thanks to NAFTA. If you want to buy an American car, buy a Toyota.

Ilfirion

It has been. But busses have pre-defined routes they must take, where they can stop and where not. Just two weeks ago, I went shopping. Saw a Dodge Ram block up 4 lots, because it just does not fit. We are not gonna change a continent, because the US cannot research the european market correctly. Especially since GM and Ford should have a ton of experience by now.

norcalnatv

Bro, r/investing sub HATES NVDA, just look at those downvotes. Not a good place for advice on this name, imo. I'd try r/NVDA_Stock or r/NvidiaStock \>Are you holding NVIDIA for the long term or do you see its potential as being capped? Been mostly holding >10 years. Listen to AMD's CEO when she says AI is in it's "early innings." I've been following this company closely for a long time, and they have done a few magic things: 1. They replaced the primary workhorse of computing (x86 CPUs) with a new form of computation, GPUs. Said another way, single threaded execution versus multi-thread or parallel execution. 2. They built a very robust development platform for the GPU. That platform consists of both their hardware and CUDA software that is now the default environment for next generation technology shift. 3. They have uncovered/discovered/invented a whole new set of applications that the world didn't know it needed in which GPUs are uniquely qualified to service: AI training, AI inferencing, Robotics, Physics, Self-driving, Quantum, Medical science, Materials science and on and on. 4. They have kept the competition at bay since their Kepler architecture in 2012 - a stunning feat as the popular perception is chips are easy to build (chips of this level are not). You strike me as a younger person - which is a great thing for investing. Time is on your side. Don't trade it. Don't try and time the market. Don't jump in and jump out of the stock. Just buy a few shares and put them on the shelf for 10+ years. This company has been in a shoot out with MSFT and APPL for the largest company in the world (by MC) since January. It will soon be the most profitable company the world has ever seen. $50B (200B run rate) by the end of this year and 70% margins. But they are the engine of the entire AI infrastructure segment, collecting something like $0.40 cents for every dollar spent and they retain \~90% of the compute market share. The question you are asking is: well, is the music going to stop, or do we have another bunch of rounds of musical chairs. The answer is many rounds are still to come. At least 10 years of growth in the segment and Nvidia will be the primary beneficiary. Is it all going to be straight up and rosy? No. It never is, so there will inevitably be ups and downs. But I've never seen a more well managed team, more well focused and driven company than Nvidia, so one just learns to ride through those ups and downs. Pick your entry points wisely, like this recent down turn in April. I was buying then at $96 and it looks like it may be making new all time highs in the not distant future (which honestly is not the time to be buying). I wouldn't trade it (like options), just buy a few shares when it dips and put it away for 10 or 15 years. It's like buying and holding [GM for 20 years after the second world war](https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2008/07/09/business/09place.graphix.ready.html?action=click&module=RelatedCoverage&pgtype=Article&region=Footer). To be clear, Nvidia isn't a conventional investment, it's risky -- and that's primarily why I think this stock is frowned on in this sub. Do your own due diligence. But from one whose been through the high highs and the low lows, the company is going to deliver and keep on delivering, that's just what they do.

FeMtcco

Now show us with ranking by brand plus YoY change to understand the trends better. Just checked it out and there was a 29% incease on EV sales worldwide (YoY for Q1) and Tesla managed the feat of being the only top 10 company with a decrease on sales (13%), VW is getting more share in Europe, whereas GM and Koreans are getting more in the US, and chinese are expanding everywhere else plus China. Tesla has to either come back to the drawing board to get better products out or they will get way behind in a market they completely dominated up to a couple of years ago. https://preview.redd.it/2pxh500ny37f1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=76f4aba53baec9d5b80941971d6388b316de038f

Initial-Resist-9774

She’s got 6 years at FAANG, currently a senior quality engineer. Just finished her Masters in Engineering Management. 4 years QE at GM and 2 years at DOD. Degree in Quality Engineering/Metallurgy from VT

Potato_Octopi

Haliburton is a defense contractor. GM and Ford have been as well. You can make similar comments for any big spending. War has been a fast shrinking segment, so if you want to make big bucks off the government or anyone war isn't a great bet.

threeriversbikeguy

Debt to equity at GM has been bad for a long time. This sort of BS isn't new to shareholders. Well it shouldn't be.

CleanMyAxe

GM doesn't even keep up with inflation. Might as well put your money under the sofa.

throweyxz

the sub 2000 rating board completely kills any competitive aspect of the tournament. I mean the indian guy with 11/11 and 2700 tpr is clearly playing at IM/GM level, yet farms all these 1800s. This cant be the intention of the organizers - there is a lot of money on the line after all. They need to change something in the future, maybe make it another open women board or whatever, but this is just not fair.

bltn2024

Intellectual property is much more valuable than plant and equipment in today's world. That's mainly the point of the whole analysis. The factories of GM, Ford, and Chrysler did nothing to create a moat for their products. Despite not really having their own major factories, the IP and brands of Apple, Nvidia, and Microsoft have deep and wide moats.