GM

tdogger88

Only needs to be said once. Obviously the valuation is not about car sales. Albeit GM/Ford paring down EV research and production has been bullish for Tesla, as Tesla is the only company with margins when selling EV’s. Tesla is valued for their potential and Elon Musk. Batteries, energy, AV’s, and robotics. Sure they have nothing much to show now, but market believes they will get there and it will be huge. I do as well. So that’s they the valuation is high, it because of their “car sales”.

Major_Shlongage

This is unlikely. Elon was previously in good standing with Democrats, but Biden burned that bridge when he had the EV summit and didn't invite Tesla. He praised GM for leading the EV revolution (when they sold something like 30 EVs that quarter) but ignored Tesla (who sold about 300,000). The actual reason for this is that the EV summit was really a concoction of the United Autoworkers Union, and Tesla is anti-union. But this royally pissed off Musk and he disliked him after that.

No-Improvement3164

There’s no bear market til GM gives up gain.

hershculez

It’s a solid pick at the current price. The consensus target is $75.84 (24.6% upside). Used AI to forecast a 2026 projected 52-week high and the result was $100. 90% confidence band was +-26% so take that for what it is worth. In general though, there is money to be made when there is blood in the streets. Nike is shit right now but the CEO has them headed in the right direction. I bought a lot of GM when it was in the upper 20’s during the auto worker strike in 2024. Same philosophy applied.

FelixEvergreen

Why do you think launch services is money loser? They charge $70m per launch and their cost estimates are like $15-30m. Thats a solid GM per launch.

Mac_DG

Doesn't GM make other stuff though? Like wash machines and *fucking gatling guns?!*

tugrulthelol

Updated crystal ball stock picks from one regard to another: MU, GM, IVZ, CB, INCY Happy gambling to you all

Prudent-Corgi3793

Ford’s balance sheet is much worse than GM’s

Prudent-Corgi3793

GM revenue 187.4B (+2.58% y/y), operating income 9.30B (-26.46% y/y) TSLA revenue 95.6B (-1.56% y/y), operating income 4.77B (-41.44% y/y)

fluffycoookie55

Whatever feelings people have about Elon, GM is a far worse company than Tesla and it’s not even close.

Due-University8711

The chart for General Motors (GM) displays a robust uptrend over the past six months, with the price consistently making higher highs and higher lows. This indicates strong underlying buying pressure. The recent price action shows the stock trading near its 52-week high, suggesting a potential breakout above this resistance level. The pattern suggests that after a period of significant gains, the stock might experience minor consolidation or a shallow pullback before continuing its upward trajectory. The strong momentum and clear trend imply that buyers are in control, as per ChartScanner.AI analysis, and any dips are likely to be bought up.

lipmanz

Why does GM get a higher multiple than F

lipmanz

The fact that GM can even have stock after failing their pension and declaring bankruptcy is wild

NOT_MartinShkreli

PREACH!! I had 2002 VW Jetta that went to shit fast. Then had 2015 Q5 and it was the biggest pile of dog shit ever, just like you explained. I now only buy Cadillac because grandpa gets me the GM new car discount lol

BallsHardest

While GM bulls celebrate a "win" fueled by stock buybacks and legacy ICE sales, they’re ignoring the fact that you can’t value an AI and robotics powerhouse like a 100-year-old truck company. TSLA’s YTD price action is just a temporary consolidation before the FSD and Optimus supercycle makes this "underperformance" look like a rounding error. Zoom out and stop comparing a dinosaur’s dividend to the dawn of the autonomous future. Also. I AM NOT INDIAN. Stop calling me Indian sir.

manofjacks

And in the last 10 years TSLA +2,807% vs GM's 199%.

Novel_Board_6813

So what? Assuming nothing else, GM still gives your investment back in 16 years. TSLA will pay you in 310 Either TSLA will find some otherworldly growth or the only way to make money there is to wait for yhe next sucker. That actually works often enough, but “products are likely to make enough money” is hardly the reason

mrmrmrj

GM stopped lighting money on fire and TSLA announced it was going to keep lighting money on fire.

Full_Professor_3403

Tesla as a company makes some innovative stuff atleast. it’s just a stupid stock to buy because too many idiots are willing to buy at any price rain or shine. GM is one of the least innovative companies in the US. They even bought cruise and managed to do absolutely nothing with it

dentistshatehim

GM p/e: 16 Tesla: 310 Tesla is a meme stock.

No-Improvement3164

Same with GM

OrdinaryMix4013

who the fuck is buying GM cars like why? poor baby or something???

BabaThoughts

Several major car manufacturers, including GM, Ford, Toyota, Hyundai, and Stellantis, are significantly expanding U.S. production in 2025-2026, driven by incentives and tariffs, focusing on adding shifts, retooling plants, and moving some overseas production to America, especially for EVs and hybrids, leading to increased domestic sales and job creation. Whirlpool Corporation Announces $300 Million Investment in U.S. Laundry Operations, Creating 400-600 New Jobs

therealjerseytom

Some other examples to look into: Lucent Technologies. One of the big backbone companies of the tech and telecom surge in the 90's. Not one of the "dot coms" that had zero sales; Lucent was selling tens of billions of dollars worth of equipment worldwide. And yet within like a year of the 2000 slide, their stock value dropped 98%, and eventually de-listed for a total loss. Company was eventually absorbed by Alcatel and then Nokia. From a global giant to a nobody practically with the snap of a finger. Or GM. A pretty steady car manufacturer, still around today. But due to bankruptcy / re-structuring, shareholders were completely wiped out sometime after 2008. I was one of them. 😅 Concentration risk is a real thing.

CoffeeMaker999

GM Meeseeks! Hope you have an awesome sunday.

Strong-AI

Yeah that's why the F-150 Lightning was cancelled, soon to be followed by some GM products. The only companies successfully pivoting are Hyundai and Volvo

m0nk_3y_gw

Their competitors are "100% EV manufacturer, also in power storage, solar, AI, and robotics". Closest US competitor is Rivian, for "100% EV manufacturer, and some AI/self-driving". Companies like GM and Ford are 1% EV manufacturers, and scaling back on EVs. Tesla is trailing Rivian?

techperson1234

EV charging system. Theirs is really the only one that's reliable. So much so that other manufacturers like Ford and GM pay Tesla to use it.... Other than that... Not so much

Happy_Discussion_536

Those of y'all that live in rural towns with snow everywhere. Grocery store and gas station are the same thing. Nothing for miles. Everyone drives Toyota / Subaru SUV or F / GM truck. How do you not go insane?

UsedState7381

https://youtu.be/GM-e46xdcUo?si=nVBLYuAFp_Q5xY_U

One_Rip_5565

They sell carbon wheels for all GM vehicles. The float is locked tight with insiders and retail, and 0 short shares left. Last time it ran to $7.

One_Rip_5565

They sell carbon wheels for all GM vehicles. The float is locked tight with insiders and retail, and 0 short shares left. Last time it ran to $7.

river_miles

I don't think $CREV had even begun to respond to the GM news yet. It has a big move still pending. No registered dilution either. They may be in a lockup period related to buyout talk?

Normal-Foundation983

The partnership between CREV (Carbon Revolution) and GM (General Motors) involves Carbon Revolution supplying lightweight, one-piece carbon fiber wheels for GM's high-performance vehicles, notably the Corvette ZR1, boosting CREV's stock and highlighting GM's push for advanced materials in its EVs and luxury cars. CREV, a public company, merged with a SPAC and secured programs with major automakers, including GM, leveraging its innovative tech, with former GM exec Bob Lutz even joining their board.

IDFCommitsGenocide

> There is no concrete way to measure intrinsic value well that's the problem isn't it? you can't say there is an/one intrinsic value when different people have different definitions of it on the contrary, you could say the market value is the average of all the buyers'/sellers' own intrinsic value definitions, backed up by the prices at which they are willing to put their money where their mouths are some of them may view future-facing near-monopoly status as part of their "intrinsic" value calculations > They have a lot of competition right now and more to come Ford just pulled the plug on EVs Japan's still stuck on gas vehicles and Europe's car exports to the US are getting walloped by tariffs GM's tech is also lagging behind Tesla and trade barriers keep Tesla safe from BYDin the US market

no_okaymaybe

This is why you should learn more about options. Gamma max, gamma neutral, delta neutral etc. GM expanded a little further to 485 throughout the week but as soon as index buying stopped..

No-Improvement3164

Imagine buying Amazon instead of GM. 😂😂

No-Improvement3164

GM is never red more than a day and it .50% at most. Unbelievable

TheBeestWithEase

> they opened up factory in the US already Their only fabrication plant open in the US is the one in Arizona which manufactures 4nm chips. This is not exactly cutting-edge technology now, and will be even more outdated by 2027. They have plans to expand production to 3nm and 2nm chips, but these would both occur after 2027. This is also only a fraction of their overall manufacturing capability, the majority of which is on the island of Taiwan and would be destroyed in any PRC invasion scenario. > USA would just extract the key TSMC figures from Taiwan This statement is extremely speculative and we don’t really have any evidence to indicate that that would actually happen, but I’ll address it anyway. Imagine if the USA got invaded, and Canada ‘extracted’ all of the ‘key figures’ from GM. They have one manufacturing plant in Canada; the rest of their facilities in the US are destroyed. Wouldn’t you agree that shares of GM would be worth almost nothing at that point?

Agitated_Run9096

Understandably these could be thought of as 2 separate markets, even GM has L2 and L4 offerings. Omitted is the group at Level 3, like BMW, Mercedes and Honda. Not sure why anyone would prefer an SAE Level 2 over Level 3, isn't the whole point of "self-driving" to not have to hold on to the wheel? Being the leader of Level 2 is meaningless.

Square-Ad3218

I wish I never sold GM. I thought the tariffs would really affect them.

RollTideTerp

so, basically every tech-growth mutual fund then? He single-handedly made EV cars a viable product whereas GM and Nissan gave the public nothing but a joke of a golf cart-car. Get over your derangement and work your extra Starbucks non-union shift so maybe you can afford 1 share of SpaceX stock when it comes out.

SimpleMindHatter

Keyword there is “most” of course there’s Enron, Lehman Bros, GM, etc.

Hockeyshot39

Lmao and I go back to my original statement, every Tesla hater goes off emotion for a product we don’t own in a stock they don’t invest in Once again, you said they miss their timeline by years. Do you have nothing to say about the model 3 and y being right on time? Same with robo taxi Do you have nothing to say about for promising a future of electric vehicle vehicles than canceling their battery plan and electric truck? Do you have nothing to say about GM saying four years ago that they would be beating Tesla and electric vehicle sales in 2025?

Hockeyshot39

FSD is here and you can buy and use it ( I use it daily) I can’t find anything confirming it would be L5, I see quotes of Elmo saying it’s “close” Robo taxi is here now… so not sure how that’s not delivered - looks like he talked about it in 2020 but never gave a target date… It looks like something for HW 3 customers should come out in terms of an upgrade - older customers on 2.5 HAVE been upgraded to HW3 CT was in production during the COVID supply chain issues so every company was hurting for parts and material Either way everything did get released - many companies promise things and don’t deliver or deliver later Ford promised many things in the way of EVs and now they back pedaled and are canceling those plans and pivoting to battery storage and canceling the F150 And GM in 2021 said they would OUTSELL Tesla in EVs in 2025 lmao Are you gonna go cry about ford and GM too? Or are your simple emotions only upset about Tesla You obviously don’t own a Tesla and don’t own Tesla stock so why do you care so much about any of this?

Every_Recover_1766

Call me nuts, but $F. It’s at like $13 level right now, and I see $16-17 in the next year. They finally wrote off their EV program to the tune of 19 billion dollars, and of the big 3 in the USA, they are best positioned to handle the oncoming wave of PHEV. The maverick has zero competition, and will continue to have zero competition likely through MY 2027 or MY 2028. The F-150 will likely become hybridized. If they do not follow through with this, then I’m closing out my position. I sit around all night on the jobsite and spend all day analyzing valuation. Ford is the only company worth its salt (and they’re still not worth that much) on a jobsite, and with the *failure* of GM’s 3.0 diesel, there’s not a whole lot of competition in the pickup truck category until you get all the way up to the 2500 level. IF (big if) ford manages to maintain that level of market share, and if the F-150 continues to win the powertrain war, they will become a lot more valuable then the market currently prices them at. Beyond that, they’re moving to capitalize on the utility sectors massive cap-ex positions with their new battery plant being retooled to focus on data centers. Headwinds include the Chinese expansion - international competition will become brutal. From a domestic perspective, I’m picking $F though.

No-Improvement3164

Well take a look at GM and tell me why it’s not selling off.

MaterialGuy007

Yes it is overbought. Hedge Funds prob backing upside and taking out shorts almost by the second. Takes just 100 shares to take stock up $1 - thats aggressive shorts removal (like TSLA, GS, OKLO). You need to wait for negative news to strike - expect sudden $100-200 down in a day or few. Upcoming negative news is 'Gone Tariffs' ruling by Sup Court. All automakers waiting sideline for that window to dump cars into US and throw in steep discounts. Positive news - GM, Ford designate CVNA as their Sales Agent.

After_Club6421

I do love my 2026 Tesla Y. I think he’s selling less because of haters. When all the other electric manufacturers like Rivian go under and GM/Ford/KIA go back to gas, Tesla will be the only game in town again for green nerds.

IllBuyYourCar

My new GM just signed off his email with “THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER” LMAOOOOO I like this guy

Master-Ebb9786

He has a great channel. TBH my mom keeps asking me what I want for christmas and I'm at a loss. I do also would like live feedback from a GM. Unless you can think of what I want for christmas, my mom won't stop pestering me about it.

ComplicatedFella

The thing I am good at, is identifying bullsh\*t. I play the field, like a GM I scout talent and draw from the best. Would you like to contribute? Or be a recluse? https://preview.redd.it/6bhzscczry7g1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6fb81742a29a8f6ed01301349ceef30d1caefb69

Fhyzikz

Also GM. They can make their monthly car payment on their 100% financed Camaro now

HarryWaters

Tesla is a meme stock. The market cap is almost 1.5T. The next twenty largest automarkers in the world have a market cap of 1.37T. Volkswagen Group, which owns VW, Skoda, Seat, Audi, Porsche, Lamborghini, Ducati, MAN, and Scania, is worth $64B, or 4.7% of Tesla. The stock is up 4.11% in the last 5 days, which is enough to buy Hyundai. Over the last month, Tesla has gained enough market cap to buy GM, Ford, Honda, Stellantis, and still have $20B, which is enough to buy Adobe, Nokia, or ASUS. And they sold about 1/5 of the cars Toyota did, 1/4 of Ford, half of Hinda or Hyundai, and about as many as Mazda.

zzzacmil

US automakers decided long ago to all but abandon most other markets and just focus on the US due to our lax emissions and safety standards. GM completely pulled out of Europe. All three US automakers stopped making cars (except for the legacy sportscars that are central to their brands, but no real cars) and instead now only build SUVs and trucks. Their play is focusing on high profit SUVs and trucks, and they will lobby the US to force out competition, like they did with the US essentially banning Chinese cars from entering the US market. The are investing in innovation as a form of risk management, not as their primary strategy. If the US doesn’t adequately restrict competition, hopefully they’ve done just enough not to go extinct. But their main bet is that competition will be kept out and they can keep doing what they’re already doing.

zonk84

Thanks - good advice. It wasn't planned - and the future of TOST is still up in the air - but I mentioned it because it tracks... I had done my time in the restaurant industry - just teens/20somthing waiter/bartender/back-house/assistant GM stuff but enough time that I felt I grasped the proposition. Not that my limited 'informal focus group' means much -- but I had been tracking TOST for a bit pre/right after it's IPO and just happened to be in NYC for work. Had dinner and drinks and with him and 6-7 other restaurant types (owners and GMs) and the subject of POS systems came up for a gal opening a new place. It was kind of amusing -- people at the table were apologizing for "shop talk" (I was the outsider) but selfishly, I felt like I was hitting the jackpot: Please, please continue. This is potential user/buyer/customer discussion people would pay good money for :-) It's an investment - not a charity or a thumbs up - so just liking a product isn't enough.... But you're right. Based on the ad hoc focus group - I tracked... and read the 10-Qs... and then bought in. I do like WF -- but I think I'll hold off and look for some growth props. They're expanding - let's see some returns as they edge into other areas. They're looking to get into some lending areas (mortgages, but more) -- and I think that's where I'll be watching below the pure bottom lines. Appreciate the perspective!

wgp3

What original lead? Do you know when the EV summit was? It was in late 2021. Shall we take a look at US EV sales for 2021? For the year GM had 25k sales. Tesla had over 300k. And for more fun, in Q4 2021 GM had just 26 EV sales. 26. Going on about the roadster, back in 2008, is even more ridiculous. GM didn't have an assembly line of EVs rolling out then. GM did nothing to lead EVs other than create the EV1 and then subsequently destroy all of them. Although there weren't many to begin with. If you want to talk about hybrid then you could bring up GM but at that point you should probably bring Toyota as your EV leader if you just mean hybrids. It was completely stupid of them to leave out Tesla. It was pure politics and it bit them in the ass for achieving their actual goals. Imagine bringing a group to the forefront of your summit, praising them as leaders in the field, and then they can only deliver 26 EVs for a whole quarter later that year. All while the commonly known leader continues on to sell hundreds of thousands of vehicles in that same quarter. And a million globally for the year.

LevelUp84

The market doesn't believe in GM, Ford, or traditional vehicle manufactures.

ikasey24

Might as well load GM instead

ken830

In some ways, Tesla had MORE competition then before a few went bankrupt. And every one of their competitors still qualified for the $7,500 tax credit so Tesla was at a $7,500 pricing disadvantage (except for GM, which followed behind Tesla 1 or 2 quarters later in reaching the cap due to their hybrid sales). This is why the tax credit was so unfair. It penalized the innovator that first breaks into the market and rewards the ones that come after. Still, with that disadvantage, Tesla was able to make profitable vehicles while others could not.

Churchbushonk

Truth is, as an automotive business they are shit and Wall Street has never valued them as a car business. They valued them for the battery tech and integrated car tech. Ford delivered 10x and sold 10x the cars Tesla did. 100x over the past decade. You telling me Tesla should be worth more than GM and Ford combined?

thebiglebowskiisfine

When it's proven that they have solved autonomy - it will take care of demand. The issue will be, will they still produce cars for the public when they can make 10X GM by renting it.

african_cheetah

Tesla is highly overvalued if they don’t crack autonomous-robots (Tesla w FSD is robot on wheels). Tesla is highly undervalued if they are first to crack and massively scale autonomy since they’re the only US industrial manufacturer with vertical supply chain of manufacturing cars, software, their own datacenter (collosus), ML engineers etc. Also including Elon having access to folks and resources at X, Grok, SpaceX. GM gave up on Cruise. Cruise could be 2nd behind Waymo. It is a massive gamble, but a non-zero probability Tesla hit their ambitions.

chava300000

Solid analysis! The shift from AI stocks to sectors like automotive and defense is definitely something to watch. TSLA and GM’s strong performance highlights that there are still opportunities in value stocks. I agree with the point about tailoring your strategy based on time horizon-sector rotation and momentum trading can offer good opportunities in this environment. Appreciate the insights!

PooPooPointBoiz

And that's true, but as far as what you see on US roads, Tesla is miles ahead of Ford and GM in terms of onboard tech, "self driving", and connectivity. But yeah, if the US didn't tariff the shit out of Chinese cars, Tesla would be smoked.

sasquatch_melee

Called it when GM and Ford said they were skipping over any more hybrids or plug-in hybrids straight to BEV. Americans were never going to adopt BEV in mass so quickly.  It took 20 years for Americans to accept hybrids as normal, amazing management thought the market would immediately adopt BEVs despite their many drawbacks vs ICE (range, refueling time, cold weather performance, serviceability, higher prices, etc).  GM and Ford should have done a generation or two of PHEVs first, normalized plugging in your car every night and get people hands-on with the smoother, quieter driving experience of an electric motor, then started pushing BEVs. 

LordFaquaad

True. But I think people drastically underestimate the work required for FSD. I realize this sub is pretty anti-Tesla but for a company to get close to what they have will require a lot of capital + expertise + time. Tinkering with black box algorithms and putting bias in the source to make it do certain things is a whole science in ofitseld and tesla is very good at it. This doesnt include the sheer level of HD videos and driving data they have. Auto manufacters are struggling because at its core, management of auto manufacturers are not tech people and many companies e.g. Japanese/ Germans are very set in their ways Id love nothing more than to see multiple FSDs but given how absolutely limited ans shit my experience on super cruise (GM), blue cruise (Ford) and the other semi autonomous modes has been in various cars, Im not really holding my breath. Now the Chinese on the other hand, thats a different story.

ImpressFragrant1427

GM doing GM things

No-Improvement3164

It’s over! GM is red

AtomicSymphonic_2nd

I’m honestly taking all this news to mean that battery tech is *still* too expensive to sell broadly to the general public *without any* governmental assistance in adoption. That’s honestly heartbreaking for any future-focused or environmental-focused people out there. I’m guessing R&D costs along with resource mining (Lithium) is still too high to start discounting EVs like normal ICE cars. It’s a bit frustrating… nearly the entire automotive industry bet the farm on EVs completely replacing ICEs within a decade. Even Volkswagen is taking something of a beating on going full-EV, too. Congrats to Toyota for taking things slow… apparently their slow-to-adopt-new-tech strategy has fucking paid off massively. -signed, An F and GM bag holder

bluehairdave

I got a Silverado EV and its by far the best vehicle and truck ive ever owned. I save around $400 a month before maintenance and all that is figured in. Its faster, drives better and has a better interior... its fast! Handles amazing in weather too. Hope GM doesn't follow suite. I. Buying another one after this. And my teen wants one.

omahaomw

At this point all the car companies are fubaring it seems. Newerish GM pickups and suvs burning oil like crazy too.

Final7C

All of the big 3 do a shitty job with EVs. Let me explain. Either they don't actually want to make a good car. Or they don't know how to make a good car. The EVs have been underpowered, with middling ranges, with prices that are too high to make sense for almost anyone. The hybrid is what they should have been doing 20 years ago. but instead they laughed in oil. They kept full ICE vehicles and put an outrageous markup on EVs and anything close to a Hybrid. Teslas would probably still sell really well if Elon hadn't gone and got into politics. The problem is, conservatives tend to dislike EVs. And there is a lot to dislike EVs from a visceral level. 1.) They take at a minimum 30-45 minutes to fully charge. At best. Is that a long time, well, when you're used to 2-5 minute fill up times, yes. It's a long ass time. If you run out of energy on the side of the road, a tow truck or an electric generator is the only thing that can help you now. 2.) They cost more than comparable ICE Cars. They use less parts, but the parts are more expensive. They also know that people who want an EV will pay through the nose for it. At least that was the thought. They saw Teslas and thought - Boy, I bet we could crank out a piece of shit EV and it would sell like hot cakes... Except, The reason why Teslas were so coveted, is Elon made an expensive car, that was fun. It seemed futuristic, and it didn't feel like he was shitting them out as the lowest bidder. And the ones that he was shitting out, those were priced similar to a midsize sedan and STILL went faster and further than the Big 3's EVs. paying an extra 20k for a car, just doesn't work. 3.) They don't have as many options as ICE cars. They are so worried about making a car that goes as far as an ICE car, that they cut out all the bells and whistles because it reduces range. 4.) They are heavier, and thus cannot pull as much as an ICE vehicle. And lose charge when under load (not much different than a big engine using more gas, but the difference is, the ICE F150 has a towing capacity of 8,200lbs - 13,500lbs. vs the Lightning of 7,000 -10,000lbs.) 3,500 lbs is significant. especially if you're buying the truck to tow. 5.) They have a maximum range that is less than a current ICE vehicle, and the re-fill structure isn't nearly as well developed as ICE vehicles. And they haven't cracked the code on fast refill. 6.) EVs are a direct competitor to most of the secondary market for the auto industry. - The companies that make the parts (replacement and otherwise) for the cars are suddenly not going to have as many parts, meaning hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs are gone. Your car doesn't need an exhaust, anything in the engine block, it needs 4 identical motors, (well maybe 2 sets of 2), you need chassis and suspension, you need, electrical, a heater, an AC, a wiper system. But the big ticket items of a transmission and engine are gone. replaced with a battery pack and wiring harness. 7.) Range anxiety is a stupid but real thing. Oh no, my car only gets 200 miles to the charge. The average rural driver drives around 40 miles per day. Do some drive more than that? yes. But we're talking averages. That is from home, to work, and all side trips, 40 miles. In the harsh winter that means you're probably needing to charge due to the 39% drop in efficiency (ICE vehicles tend to use 15-24% more gas on cold days). But it's still WELL within the range that most people drive per day. but because it's not 500+ miles, we all freak the out. 8.) The Oil and gas industry is literally a MAJOR part of the american economy. It is one of the largest employers in the US, and you won't find most of its workers switching to EVs anytime soon. That's like watching someone from GM drive a Toyota. Here's what Tesla did to make themselves successful. 1.) They pulled an APPLE. They made something fun, that just seemed to work. 2.) They were a vertical monopoly. They build all the components themselves. ALL of the software/hardware was developed by Tesla, all of the batteries were built by Tesla. That's HUGE difference in how the software worked. It's why most other makers touchscreens and media centers feel like total dogshit. Because every component was made by a different manufacturer. And all told to "Just work together". Instead of building a single unified software/hardware package. They had tons of individual lines doing a segment, then slapped them into a different hardware package. And it feels clunky and unintuitive. Because they KNEW we'd buy it no matter what. afterall, almost no one chooses a car based on the media center. So why spend the money on it, just make it mostly functional. The problem is, most of the parts to these cars are the same way. They work, and they mostly work together, but they don't feel made for the vehicle they are going in. instead they feel like they are just sourced from a big bin of "generic parts" and made to fit. It's really just a slap in the face of anyone who wants to be in one. They are actively made them underpowered. You know what sold 50% of the people on a tesla. Insanity mode. The ability to go from 0-60 in about 3 seconds. That sold more Teslas than ANY OTHER THING. The next biggest thing was "He released an update over the air, increasing range , no need to take it in, it just updates wirelessly." It was cool, dangerous as fuck and not a great idea to allow a car to be "always tied to the manufacturer" but cool. It is hard to sell "We purposefully made your life harder, to help you". Hybrids are a good route for them to take. it allows them to figure out the fucking battery problems, it gets everyone used to the angel halo sounds, and excitement at getting more than 20mpg while still driving a big ass SUV. and they can charge "a bit" more. Not waaay more, but a bit more. Politics of the current admin wanting to gobble Oil Exec's giblets while handing their asses to OPEC. All while basically cutting out ANY price incentives AND adding tariffs to all foreign cars and any EVs and EV parts. It makes sense that for the next 3 years or so Ford, and GM are going to say "We can't survive a lack of demand" And instead of learning the "lesson we keep trying to teach you old man" they are going to just stop, and switch only to hybrids. Which is still a step, but a 1/2 step at best. But you know what... maybe this will give them the chance to figure out how to make a decent car.

steakpienacho

I always say I drive an F150 because while still a piece of shit, if you need a truck, it is less of a piece of shit than anything else on the market right now. Ram is shit, GM can't make a reliable engine in 2025 and if you live anywhere with inclement weather, their frames are paper. Toyota completely fucked the only thing worth buying their trucks for and is still accounting for more engine recalls for 2022+ trucks. They all suck shit, but the ford is the best at the moment

Shit-throwing-monkey

Calls on teleportation. Puts on TSLA JETS F GM SPACEX

mohelgamal

Ford, GM and stellantis are effectively throwing their own future in the trash by not embracing EVs fully, especially after charging networks are already rolling out and it is easy now not to get stranded on a long trip. The future is EVs, nothing to do with regulation, or tax credits or government support. They are easy to build automatically, cost less to maintain, more performance, and a bunch of other advantages that make anyone go electric almost never go back. Their prices are dropping to beyond what ICE cars cost. Even if they can stop Chinese manufacturers from entering the American market, they are already giving up on their Asian and European markets By the time they try to get into it again, they won’t only be competing against new BYDs, teslas and Rivian, they will be competing against their used market as well.

thx1138guy

Ford didn't take a bail out or declare bankruptcy. Only GM and Chrysler did. Ford got a private line of credit.

moorhound

Very bullish on Ford going in on hybrids. The only US brand to take hybrids seriously was Polestar, and they stupidly gave that up to switch to boring-ass EV crossovers. Hybrids are the in-between America needs on the transition to full EVs. We're not China, we don't have an electricity surplus. Hybrids keep the US gas cartels happy, improve performance and mileage, and you don't have to plug them in. Now Ford just has to work on making cars that aren't absolute pieces of dogshit. Being the go-to "murica" government fleet brand for decades and getting a bunch of cost-cutting MBAs that have never touched a wrench in their lives to have design input has scarred the brand on quality. I've given up on Stellantis, and GM is even worse at modern adaptation, so F needs to carry this torch.

CVobach

Ford didn't take a bailout in 09, that was GM and Chrysler

GrumblyData3684

Considering GM just announced a new Bolt, I wouldn't be surprised. The fact that they even went the the F150 first - shows they are just obsessed with the cash cow that is the full size pickup and don't want to focus on engineering.

canders9

Does this mean my GM puts will work out?

BoozyMcBoozehound

I’ve never owned a Ford Truck. Only GM and Toyota full-size. I will definitely consider a F-150 hybrid if it can tow my trailer. Why not? I get 9 miles to the gallon towing currently, if I can double that it would save me thousands of dollars a year.

No-Improvement3164

I guess I’m just going to have to buy GM.

spincycleon

You can say whatever but GM Obi picks be hitting, did the free trial to see if it was a scam and turned out to be the only discord I’ve seen so far that does what it advertises

BringbacktheFocusRS

GM has a better product at the moment. Solid state batteries may make all the R&D every EV carmaker is doing on batteries obsolete very soon. Politics are not on EVs side at the moment. I think Ford focusing on hybrids and gas vehicles right now makes sense, but they need to be prepared to pivot very soon as politics and advancements in battery technology may make pivoting to EVs again in 2 to 4 years a good move.

BuffaloSabresFan

I saw a commercial for GM residential battery storage the other day. Yeah...I'd prefer not to have weird GM electrical system idiosyncrasies when it comes to getting electricity to my house. Not sure how comfortable I'd feel with Ford in this space either.

hitrichelovek

I'm on my third Chevrolet volt, which was the first EREV. Leased the first two and then bought this one in 2019. I love the flexibility. Most days I just need the electric drivetrain and battery with a 40 mile range to get me to work and back. But if I need to drive a long distance I can just rely on gas. I charge at home. I probably stop at the gas station 4 to 5 times a year. GM stopped making this car because they were only selling 20-30k per year. They are somewhat less profitable because they do mechanically have both an electric drive train and still much of what you need to have gasoline. (Though I'm at expert enough to you know how that stacks up against a much larger battery that you would need in a pure play EV) But the concept is great. I lament that more manufacturers don't make these kinds of vehicles.

OhtaniStanMan

Mommy Barry's and another ATH for GM today. That's 9 of the last 10 days. 18 of the last 20.

canders9

$GM is way overbought, puts gotta pay out soon

EngRookie

fannie may, freddie mac, GM, chrysler, AIG.

OhtaniStanMan

Mommy Barra riding green GM dildos yet again to new heights today for 🥭 

Safe_Manner_1879

You know that Tesla the company will manufacture the stock options out of thin air, and get payed by Elon then he execute the stock option. The stock holder will suffer a delusion, but I think they can live with about 11% delusion for about 800% gain. \>Thuper theriouth company for thmart investors If Elon fail, he gain noting. Compare to GM Mary Barra who have got $305 million, to have GM stagnate.

3141592652

Sure that was just an example but a broad one. If you want a fair comparison how about comparing it to Ford or GM taking government bailouts? Or maybe there's some other thing Tesla is doing that you failed to mention. 

3141592652

I'm talking about the large investors. People backing it with billions, the government as well. As long as they see potential it ain't going anywhere. See Netflix, Amazon, Ford, GM, Marvel, the list goes on. Tesla didn't even pay federal taxes last year. In this market I definitely don't see Tesla disappearing anytime soon. 

IllBuyYourCar

Any vehicle that is primarily leased has horrendous resale value, they aren’t any worse than any other EV realistically. EV GM products are undoubtedly at the bottom lol

Ill-Ad3188

What strategy would have been better during that time? Some popular stocks in 2001 and 2008 were down 90%+ during each crash. Amazon, Cisco, Yahoo, Nokia, GM, Ford, GE, Bank of America, Citigroup, American Express, Boeing etc. Also if you DCA from 2000 to 2010, you would be 20% up versus lump sum would be 20% down.

ctv3bvh7GCFzfdamg

Sir is a dealership GM that just got fucked on a AutoTrader listing that he forgot a 0 in the price.

Skittler_On_The_Roof

Manned Space is different.  I've worked in it for a decade.  Your heavily-funded giants like Boeing and Lockheed have too much red tape to compete with agile companies like SpaceX or Blue Origin, and that only gets worse with time.  This is similar to Ford or GM being way behind on the EV wave and basically giving up on making consumer cars at all. In space if you want to do the really large projects you need 10s of billions of dollars and your ROI MIGHT be 10 years out.  And unlike other industries it's not like you're generating huge revenue in those 10 years.  It's just straight engineering development costs.  You might be lucky to get a NASA contract but that generally is still less than your costs and ties you down in so many ways and demands even more resources to verify adherence to the contract and regular reporting. Look at Axiom as an example.  Tons of government funding, still was at risk of not being able to keep the lights on a few times now. It's no coincidence that the only 2 companies on earth making headway in manned space are led by the 2 richest people on earth, ever.  You're not going to raise enough funding telling investors you need a trillion dollars and 20 years.  Oh, and you're going to blow up billions of dollars on and off the launch pad on the way.

stocksandvagabond

No one in the 2000s or even the early 2010s thought EVs were the future, most people thought it was a pet project. If everyone had known then companies like Toyota, GM, Ford, Honda would’ve started their EV and hybrid models 10 years earlier rather than playing catchup

No-Improvement3164

With GM??