GM

Substantial-Lawyer91

Neither Ford nor GM have ever made a profitable EV.

OzwanKanoz

Seriously though … I believe that although Tesla was first out of the EV gate (kudos to Musk) they are not going to place at the finish. Ford, GM, Honda, Toyota, and a myriad of smaller startups all offer EV’s. I’m beginning to believe that within a decade Tesla will either be a VW or Volvo size shop, or it will cease to exist.

Apart-Bad-5446

Not much. EV's are more susceptible to declined demand especially in downturn economies which is why EV companies in China all suffered, some worse than Tesla. Ford and GM are cutting back on EV production for this same reason. There's still a large % of Americans who are relecutant to go EV's. Add in financial concerns and EV's become secondary to ICE.

Sure_Fee_74

What does it say about Tesla that both Foton and GM delivered good earnings reports and Tesla's were terrible?

TurkeyBLTSandwich

I think it's sort of false to say Tesla was every a luxury brand. If anything, it was the first to mass market evs at a rate viable to the upper middle class. Compare a Tesla S to a BMW 5 or Mercedes E class or Lexus LS. All of them are just better places to sit in. Tesla does compete with its domestic counterparts like Ford, Chevy, and GM when it comes to fit and finish. Tesla does still have an advantage with its charging network, highway assist, and mobile app support. Plus it's great in 0 to 60, but that novelty wears out quick for the most part. Once the Koreans and Germans get EV factories in America, Tesla will have an even MORE difficult time to convince consumers to choose their brand over the other guys. Oh and Elon Musk is an absolute deranged man at this point.

misanthropic_anthrop

Exactly. The market will react positively to the way above expectations on earnings from ge, GM ups, visa, etc. the earnings season has been quite good indeed

BudgetHovercraft8828

Go on. Whats the GM play?

Friendly-Profit-8590

I won’t be able to retire with GM calls but hoping to pay some bills

ISeeYourBeaver

"Told 'ya so", that's what I think. I said 10 years ago that Tesla made shit cars and didn't know what they were doing and that, when the market was ripe, the big boys (GM, Ford, Toyota, MB, etc.) were going to come along and eat Tesla's fucking lunch. I predicted that one of the majors would eventually buy Tesla once the stock price was low enough (south of 50, easily, I'd say), and I stand by that prediction.

jglover82

post yourself listening to the GM earnings call.....LOL

320th-Century

“Boomer” stocks have been on a roll. GE, GM, T, and surprisingly BA.

ADynes

Just bought some AAPL shares in pre-market. No way they don't go up a little before earnings. Also my Ford 13c's are at 210% and hoping for more after seeing GM earnings.

crazyyimmy

good point. Neither Ford or GM have a guy named Elon Musk checkmate 

Worried_Quarter469

GM had a robotaxi last year

Fatherfigure34

GM goes up so Ford must go up. Can’t lose. I bet the farm.

zitrored

With that dumb logic then GM and Ford are not car companies.

gravis1982

Tesla is a car company. 10 years ago they were not. They are not stopping, they want to be many others things. GM, well, GM is going to be the same company as it always was. Money is made by buying stocks before the money in is quantifiable.

m0nk_3y_gw

> Plus it sounds like the Model 2 affordable car isn't dead after all. I think that's the main reason for the pump -- it isn't dead, production is expected slightly earlier (1st half of 2025), and it can be made on existing Model 3/Y lines (doesn't require a whole new factory). > and think it should be priced like a regular car company The market recognizes that EVs are different than regular manufacturers that haven't gone all-in on EVs. It isn't just Tesla - Rivian was valued higher than GM or Ford before they sold their first thousand trucks.

ThatRocketSurgeon

The Cadillac Lyriq only delivered double digit numbers in 2022. There were 86 deliveries. They delivered 9,000 in 2023. Percentage wise, that’s huge but not even a drop in the bucket compared to the 1,810,000 teslas delivered that same year while GM delivered a total 75,883 EVs. I don’t really think Tesla is losing out to GM when they’re delivering 24x the amount of EVs.

etom21

We're going to rush out shit EVs with such poor build quality that it will accelerate the downfall of our reputation. When the dust settles, they're going to make GM look like quality car builders.

KickBassColonyDrop

Tesla's stock is completely disconnected from its fundamentals. It has 18.5% gross margin per unit sold on all its vehicles except CT. The next one down is Ford at ~14%. The next one after that is GM at 7-9%. They're executing well, and though their sales are down due to market pressure from hybrids, they're overall leading on the EV front *still.* It'd be nice if it was a private company, because then the stock price bullshit wouldn't be so material to any relevant discussion.

Fine_Magician_790

Elon Musk was not invited to the White House electric vehicle summit in 2023 for one reason: unions. Tesla, at the time, was the world's largest producers of electric vehicles, but the UAW is so powerful that they got the President of the United States to kick Tesla off the property. Do you think UAW (with their money and voting membership) is going to allow Congress to certify a cheap electric vehicle, with excellent battery life, and workable features into America....crushing GM, Ford, and all the other domestically produced combustion/electric vehicles? Congress cares about the environment unless....it gets in the way of the votes and money. Tesla (or any other lower cost Chinese import) will not be allowed to dump inexpensive electric cars on the streets of America. Got it. Good.

Racxie

Why are you bring Ford and GM into this when you were talking about BYD and EVs? Not to mention that BYD **are** EVs and they sold more than Tesla in Q3 and have shortened the gap over the last couple of years.

VariationAgreeable29

One only need to read GM’s earnings press release to figure out how badly TSLA is fuckdd

R-E-L-O-A-D-I-N-G

Ford and GM also sold more cars than Tesla. Tesla sold the most electric vehicles. Thanks.

DrummerCompetitive20

But Tesla needs to be priced like GM, Toyota, Honda, Ford!! Who do have Jack shit other than shitty cars 

BAGross85

$TSLA is probably the only real American car company left, except Ford. GM and Chrysler screwed their investors by letting the stocks become worthless, listed on the pink sheets, and starting a new stock with the same name. In fact, GM and Chrysler “Q” stocks, still trade to this day, waiting to be realized as losses to offset taxable gains. As far as I’m concerned, they don’t exist as companies anymore. I’d buy a Tesla if it wasn’t so darn expensive.

Tensoneu

2018 Model 3 production hell. In 6 years have multiple Gigafactories. Released Model Y, Cyber truck, and Semi, refresh Model 3. FSD beta releases to mass public in November/December of 2022. Optimus in development. Tesla Solar. Model Y becomes the top selling vehicle globally. GM since 2018. Promises 25 electrified cars by 2022. Releases a Bolt EUV. Shifting to Ultium Platform. Some new EV's are coming out. Ford since 2018. Releases Mach E and F150 Lightning. Last month Ford sold 4,400 Lightning trucks Tesla sold 3,878 Cyber trucks since December. I don't know but if I was a betting man, even if Tesla is labeled as an auto manufacturer, the past 6 years they've accomplished a significant amount compared to other automakers. Sure they may be a year or two late but they'll eventually deliver.

dragontamer5788

GM did well with EVs last quarter. We're just entering a period of dramatic competition increases. The legacy EV makers like Tesla are losing out to upstarts like GM.

shawman123

Have you ever seen any group of folks so excited to pay 56B to their CEO which is > 10% of market cap. This is someone who already owns chunk of the stock. That is quintessential definition of cult. This is nothing but a meme stock. Otherwise after a shit earnings it should have tanked. Also folks are calling out something bs about earnings. how is Auto GM just down 20 basis points when Giga Berlin was down 2 weeks and price cuts and many other impact. Obviously they have booked a big FSD revenue recognition. We will only know the details when 10Q is out.

Heavy_Aerie2196

Do you think Ford can also go up a dollar or 2 after earnings since GM and TSLA mooned?

Irishfornuclear

I have Ford puts expiring end of May. My rationale was that earnings for Q1 companies (including Ford) would be okay, but that guidance would not be with ‘higher-for-longer’ impacting consumers ability to afford big ticket items like cars. GM had okay earnings, but raised their outlook (and went up 5%). I considered selling my puts today as Ford stock didn’t move but I still think Tesla is the canary in the coal mine.

SnooStories5199

I did good on GM and bought even more F hope so .

ErinG2021

Calls on F. GM did great today and posted big beats. F will too.

Accomplished-Bill-45

The possible logic of the stock price goes up: (1) tesla is making cheaper cars for low-end market (2) US tariffs will keep cheap chinese ev out of the market (3) All other car brands such as GM, Ford, Japan/Korean brands are not ready to mass produce cheap EV as cost-effective as Tesla in foreseeable near future. (In fact, they're reducing EV production line) when all these realized, it implies that Tesla will dominate the low-end EV market like it used to dominate mid-high end market in 2020-2021. Though the low-end EV market would not be as big as mid-high end, but if Tesla established such monopoly role in US low-end EV market. It's possible we see its stock price back $300. Note that even in China, with all these penalties/setbacks of purchasing gasoline cars (such as long waiting time and high licence fee, limited access to bridges etc with gasoline car) solid charge network, and lower electrical bills, people tends to choose hybrid over pure EV.

DrummerCompetitive20

Tesla in talks with GM to license FSD

_hiddenscout

I post about how some names in the semi space are seeing slowness in autos and industrials and it should bottom at some point. $TXN gave some guidance around autos and industrials in their earnings: [https://x.com/EricJhonsa/status/1782876004371034327](https://x.com/EricJhonsa/status/1782876004371034327) >auto semi sales were down low-single digits Y/Y in Q1 (probably better than feared). Industrial was down 25%, but they mentioned some customers are nearing the end of inventory corrections. Still wonder if it might make sense to jump into some the autos soon, especially after some good news from GM this morning. Looking at some names like $ON $NXPI and $ACLS

TimeTravelingChris

FYI GM just crushed earnings, had a PE of 6x, and a market cap that's a fraction of TSLA. BuT aI AnD robots whatever.

Karl151

I under estimated how far Elon would go to pump this shitstock. I might’ve lost the battle but I will win the war. 5 years from now when all these bullshit promises fail to materialize Tesla will be lucky to be as valuable as Ford or GM

Icankickmyownass

CATL batteries eh? 😂. Ford, GM, looks like we fucked up.

DrummerCompetitive20

And GM and ford wonder why nobody gives a shit about them 

_hiddenscout

Legacy is doing well though. $GM beat and raised today. I think the issue with TSLA is a few things, not really rates as much. One, is they banked on a lot of growth in China. However, basically BYD is eating their lunch. The problem is that for a lot of consumers, EV's are going to be a race to the bottom in most cases. Another issue is with Elon himself. I mean I've seen people put bumper stickers on their car around buying it before Elon went crazy. In the auto space, ICE and Hybrid are doing really well. There are some reasons for that, but a big one is still infrastructure. We haven't built enough chargers. Then there is still the question around used pricing. Like when buying a car, you know your purchase will depreciate in value. However, when new prices keep getting cut, that means that used will get cut as well. I think right now, if you bought a TSLA last year, it's now down 30% in terms of value of your car. That's pretty bad.

R-E-L-O-A-D-I-N-G

Tell me how Tesla is not an EV leader 😂. Oh yeah, I remember it’s GM that’s the EV leader.

arizonamoonshine

## FORD EARNINGS ## GM killed it today, Tesla missed but is running on some good future projections. Meanwhile Ford is killing Hybrid Sales, their EV growth is going up as other companies go down. Extremely Bullish on a beat

Heavy_Aerie2196

GM and TSLA mooned, does it mean green for Ford too? The calls were cheap today. I grabbed 25 at 0.10 for 14C expiring this week

luv2block

if Musk were to spend billions on advertising, the way GM and Ford do, surprise surprise the "new trend" would revert back to pure EVs.

AP9384629344432

The numbers are gonna get worse. All those recent price cuts (FSD full package / subscription and new discounts in China / US / Australia / etc.) all happened in this current quarter, i.e., are not reflected in today's report. It seems TSLA is recognizing deferred FSD revenue, possibly to juice the quarterly numbers. That means it won't get included in the next earnings report. They burned up $2.6B in FCF this quarter, reducing cash position from $29.1B to $26.8B. GM by contrast did $1.8B in automotive FCF. Tesla specifically seems to be getting hit harder by the rate hikes than other companies. When Street starts valuing a car company like a car company, watch out.

DrummerCompetitive20

CNBC dick riding GM lol. Why is Tesla up?! It should be down  Nobody wants dinosaur auto

Bookish_Tiger

If TSLA now has a 5% operating margin and negative 25% revenue growth, I hate to say it but people might as well buy GM!

AP9384629344432

Some basic comparisons: **TSLA:** Revenue Growth: -9% (-13% for automotive specifically) Gross margin: 17.4% Operating margin: 5.5% Adjusted EBITDA margin: 15.9% GAAP Net income margin: 6.5% ( = 1129/17378) Non-GAAP Net income margin: 8.8% (= 1536/17378) P/E: Annualizing last quarter's 0.45 cents, that's a 87 P/E (no guidance given it appears). TTM is 33, forward 55. Once this quarter shows up in TTM statistics, the trailing P/E will jump. Unsure about forward P/E, which is currently in the high 50s. --- **GM:** Revenue Growth: +7.6% Gross Margin: 8.7% (I'm a bit unsure if I'm calculating this right, but I took 1 - 39277/43014). Lots of weird adjustments going on here to get EBIT margin below. EBIT-adjusted margin: 9% Net Income Margin: 6.9% P/E Ratio: 6 trailing, 4.8 forward, EV / EBITDA: 6.3 forward --- **Toyota:** Revenue: +23%, Guiding for +17% (But Yen / USD effects make this unreliable imo) Gross Margins: 22% Operating Margin 14% Net Income Margin: 11.3% P/E: 12 Forward, EV/EBITDA: 10.6 forward

OppositeArugula3527

Like Ford and GM never had handouts. The German automakers never had handouts....gtfo.

ExactLobster1462

GM beat with flying colors and TSLA shit the bed, dead vehicle market? Bull cope is strong 

arizonamoonshine

Yeah for sure! Automotive Industry looking strong today with both GM and TSLA beats! Still very bullish on Ford, especially since their Hybrids and EV’s are both killing it and F150 still the top selling truck. I’m holding all the way through. If we get some unexpected dip I may add. If we get an unexpected rip I may take some profits but 100% in this for earnings. This is where I’m at right now: https://preview.redd.it/6r4hyayyeawc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d01d7523110092ae7c9b526d3c60e5276b3471cb

QuentinP69

Judge rules against his pay, he’s on drugs, democrats buy EVs and aren’t buying his bc of politics, republicans won’t buy EVs, shit car lines, cybertruck recalls and tech issues…nothing good to say about a car company with a 33 P/E. GM P/E is 6 with increased sales and profitability. Tesla is a car company. They’ll end up being a charging station company if Musk stay in power.

Safe_Way_7154

\>GM is a key estimate for Tesla earnings not a car company. 😒

animositisomina35

Tesla Q1'24 Earnings Highlights: 🔹 EPS: $0.45 (Est. $0.51) 🔴 🔹 Revenue: $21.31B (Est. $20.94B) 🔴 🟢 🔹 Auto GM ex credits: 17.4% (Est. 15.9%) 🔴 🟢; [vs 17.2% in Q4'23)

No-Improvement3164

Everyone calling for PUTs but GM had good earnings

arizonamoonshine

Oh I posted one this AM. I think we close above $13 today but not sure if we’ll hit the $13.20 mark It actually hit $3.17 this morning in premarket so that might be a PT for close. There’s two possible small gap fills but the first one technically got filled premarket then a small bit of profit taking Tesla earnings will be interesting b/c I see a positive for Ford if it goes up OR down. Bad TSLA earnings could signal a move to Hybrids or ICE which Ford is doing very well on.But Ford’s EV growth is better than TSLA right now so a TSLA beat could also help. https://preview.redd.it/m4s30ha3y9wc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dcb782de0a79ae093595d4e0061c55bade72c306 Would be nice to settle into 13.10 or higher for close but we’ll see. But still way bullish on this especially since GM did well!

thatgibbyguy

Doesn't matter, if GM positioned themselves as a leader in the EV market - which is what they were doing - they would have that forever. They pissed it away for no reason.

thirdelevator

You mean to say it’s kinda weird that they have about 1/4 of GM’s US market share and trade at triple the price?

gnocchicotti

Yeah cuz the Bolt is discontinued because GM was losing a massive amount of cash on every sale. No word on the upcoming model but probably will be a loss leader as well. TSLA is the only US brand where the sale price is sustainable. All else being equal, Chinese brands will have the lowest cost. Some of the cheapest ICE models in the US are China manufactured already, more efficient to just cut out the middle man. Tariffs are the main thing stopping it from happening.

Silent-Hyena9442

Disagree frankly this dolphin mini car looks exactly like the GM bolt ev ($26,500) and that car isn’t exactly flying off the shelves. Also once BYD comes to America they have to add American safety features which would add a couple brand. I think the BYD car would sell but I fail to see the takeover that people are suggesting when similar priced cars are not selling like hotcakes

SnS2500

"Meanwhile, GM said today in its Q1 earnings call with analysts that EV retail customer deliveries increased 21% from a year ago." https://www.marketwatch.com/livecoverage/tesla-earnings-ev-elon-musk-q1-stock-cybertruck-robotaxi/card/gm-s-q1-ev-deliveries-rose-sharply-in-contrast-to-tesla-s-big-drop-Zh7Qi2EQf9EF88p9Goki

IsoAgent

While the truck recall news happened last week, the recent drop/reduction in price (which Tesla does during earnings) is a concern. Reeks of desperation. Coupled with GM confirming in their earnings that demand for EV has dropped, that's alot of negative news just in the last few days. We still don't know the fallout from the truck recall (are the rivet fix their solution?). But the # of deliveries will basically make it break today's report. 🤞

Bright_Interaction73

Holding my puts. What is this pump tho? I think GM earnings might be carrying TSLA

ratedsar

It's logical that car purchases would decline when the Federal reserve is raising interest rates to in part to put pressure on consumers to reduce spending. It's logical that in order for TSLA stock to be priced 10x that of Ford's P/E that Tesla would have to build a 10x better product at similar volume. Historic Brands like Ford and GM (and their domestic market) fighting EV initiatives is really going to hurt in the next 10 years; where Hyundai, Kia, Volvo, BMW, and Volkswagen (Porsche, Mercedes, Audi) are committed to electrification. Longer term; ie 2030; is when things are really going to be interesting - Gas Station economy stops making sense as EV adoption is up - New Car sales down as electric vehicles have fewer catastrophic failures (no engine to fail, no regular oil changes, so cars last longer (+ driver assistance systems of the last decade will decrease catastrophic incidents)

GreenMellowphant

Yeah, terrible. Just sell it all, buy oil and GM, and forget about it.

fxzkz

The problem is that GM's big market is also China, and so are European car companies markets. Reciprocal market access has allowed western companies to expand and make lots of money. Currently Chinese EVs don't care about America is because they haven't saturated domestic market (and America doesn't even have the infrastructure for it anyways). But eventually, it's gonna be painful for America and Europe to be left behind

DrummerCompetitive20

CNBC dick riding GM....ya nobody cares about dinosaur auto

selva_reddit

dont americans already have a similar car from GM (Chevy volt) with the same or less $$ after fed credits?? even if BYD changes its mind and bring their cars to US its not gonna sell.. hatch backs are not for US market

AlfrescoDog

!banbet GM -1.5% 56h

retiredbigbro

Some regards thought GE is the same as GM, hence the rise? 😅😂

Zoji25

If my GM calls aren't up at open, I'm never investing in earnings options again

fuckyeahmageknight

GE and GM up big. Boomers eating good tonight

AyumiHikaru

GM beats and raises guidance GM is the future

ErinG2021

Cramer calls GE results even more impressive than GM results. Both stocks up this AM.

ErinG2021

GM up 4.2% on blow out earnings for Q1, increased its profit outlook for the full year, said the cost of batteries for its EVs has dropped, and reported a 21% year-over-year increase in retail deliveries for its EVs.

Skull-Kisses

Do we think GM will get to 50?

arizonamoonshine

GM crushed earnings. Ford setup looking 🤌🏽 **chef’s kiss** I did DD on Ford last week. Looks like it’s gonna play out nicely. Hoping to hit $15+ depending on where we close today https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/s/3wX9kHnOi8

LookAtMeImInAGang

GM just had good earnings announced under 15 minutes ago. 

edgedrazor

Inflation and no rate cuts is already priced in. GM just came out with amazing earnings and so many more will follow. The economy is strong and that’ll be reflected in earnings.

penguincheerleader

Strong beat for GM.

AyumiHikaru

GM beats and raises forecast. Big boy is coming for you, TSLA fanboys lol

ethanhopps

GM blew out er but said there's no money in EVs Tesla dead on arrival

PutSpreadDaddi69

GM, bers cucked, as usual

greasyspider

GM doesn’t (or hasn’t) wanted EVs to be profitable (they have huge holdings in oil).

Ill_Try1620

Somebody call GM tell them we need numbers

DrummerCompetitive20

So if GM delivers 4 Hummers that's a 100% increase yoy 

el_smurfo

Who is bigger, Exxon or GM. Money is in the recurring cost of fuel,.not the one time cost of the car

No_Communication8613

Yep, shares of GE have really retained their value since 2000, right? People who held on to shares GM until the government bailed them out were rewarded, right? What are you talking about? You should always move your money as the market shifts and times change. Just because things you have lost value doesn't mean all things have lost value. The only thing that indicates is that you made a mistake. I have plenty of investments that have steady growth. Last year, VRT traded at $12 and its near 80 now. And it didn't shoot up overnight. It has been a slow steady growth. I am sorry that you haven't learned more about technology and you don't really know what businesses are growing. But company's fall all the time and new one's take their place at the top. GE, GM. Sears, and US Steel couldn't stay on top. Why would you think your investments would always retain their value? Why would your picks be different? Stagflation, nope, just a bear market. And new players will emerge on top.

ErinG2021

Calls on GM & F; Puts on TSLA….hybrids are what market wants to see now from auto makers.

jglover82

So in Q1 last year GM delivered 2 hummers.....Do we think tesla cybertruck can beat that??

doesnamematters

If democrats stop buying Tesla, where did they go? GM, FORD or other brands? Is it more about electric vehicles as a whole category see significant slow down in sales growth. And also competition is getting fierce now with all major brands have their electric offerings.

DrummerCompetitive20

Cybertruck already out deliver GM Hummer in Q1?

corn_29

They're already here. Volvo, Polestar, Lotus, Smart... all badge engineered cars made by and ultimately owned by China. Don't let the location of the HQ fool you, e.g., Gothenburg -- that's where China mails the checks too. Basically China bought the scraps of SAAB after GM drove SAAB 6 feet under. They started electrifying the platform of what would have been the next gen 9-3. And now China is getting into western markets through badge engineering.

arizonamoonshine

Lol! Nice 96% gainer! Yeah me too! Today was about people loading up for earnings but also WW3 tensions easing up a bit. The market did well and was due for a rebound. Also, GM reports earnings in the morning, and a bunch of other important earnings this week like META. If GM is good, then Ford is likely good and will also beat

Pension2options

Good news! In the automotive world, a "luxury car" is actually advertised as such, so you don't have to even think about it, and price =/= luxury. Here's a primer: |Mass brand|Luxury brand| |:-|:-| |Toyota|Lexus (1989)| |Honda|Acura (1986)| |Nissan|Infiniti (1989)| |Hyundai|Genesis (2015 officially)| |GM: Chevy, Buick is "mid-tier"|Cadilliac| |Ford|Lincoln (1922)| |VW|Audi, Bentley| |DaimlerChrysler: Chrysler|Mercedes-Benz| |BMW Group: Mini|BMW, Rolls-Royce| An e.g. of price =/= luxury: 2021 Toyota Land Cruiser $85.5K vs it's luxury cousin 2021 Lexus LX 570 $86.9K. The Toyota Land Cruiser is NOT a luxury car, it's simply known as a...legend.

Pension2options

Good news! In the automotive world, a "luxury car" is actually advertised as such, so you don't have to even think about it, and price =/= luxury. Here's a primer: |Mass brand|Luxury brand| |:-|:-| |Toyota|Lexus (1989)| |Honda|Acura (1986)| |Nissan|Infiniti (1989)| |Hyundai|Genesis (2015 officially)| |GM: Chevy, Buick is "mid-tier"|Cadilliac| |Ford|Lincoln (1922)| |VW|Audi, Bentley| |DaimlerChrysler: Chrysler|Mercedes-Benz| |BMW Group: Mini|BMW, Rolls-Royce| An e.g. of price =/= luxury: 2021 Toyota Land Cruiser $85.5K vs it's luxury cousin 2021 Lexus LX 570 $86.9K. The Toyota Land Cruiser is NOT a luxury car, it's simply known as a...legend.

callmecrude

I mean 2023 is a fairly blatant example of layoffs being a terrible indicator of bankruptcy. It was one of the largest layoffs years in modern history, and the largest amount of layoffs in tech since the dot com bubble. Meanwhile corporate revenue and profits were at all time highs. Meta laid off nearly 20% of their workforce. Dell, Alphabet, Microsoft, IBM, etc were all 5%+. In automotive, Rivian just laid off more than 10% of their workforce. Ford, GM, VW and Stellantis have all done such moves multiple times over the past 20 years. None of this is to say layoffs are good for Tesla, but the reason for them is purely from macro conditions and hundreds of other companies are currently going through the same situation. Saying this is a sign that Tesla is headed for bankruptcy is saying the entire auto industry is headed for bankruptcy. It ignores the fact auto is a cyclical industry where large hiring and large layoffs are normal

Rare-ish_Bird

$PEP - calls $UPS - puts $GE - puts $GM - calls $HAL - calls $RTX - puts $NEE - puts $LMT - puts $TXN - puts $V - calls $TSLA - puts