GM

Ok_Cry7572

Apparently it’s 2021 again. Instead of “EV” plans it’s Autonomy. First $NVDA with self driving now $F with self driving. How many days before $GM makes an announcement? They usually lag Ford by about a week. We all know there’s only one @Tesla

callmecrude

I don’t think you understand what margins are if you’re making a comment like that. The fact it’s being upvoted in a stock sub is honestly terrifying. I’ll keep using Microsoft and GM because they’re easy examples: Microsoft: 70% gross margin, 35% net margin GM: 9% gross margin, 2.5% net margin Do you see the difference? One has a dominant take-rate where investors feel confident giving it a higher multiple because even if margins fall, they’ll still be incredibly profitable. The other is barely profitable during good years and is massively impacted by pricing pressure and competition. Notice how Ferrari always trades at high PE because even though they’re an automaker, they’ve carved out a niche premium product that allows them to have high margins.

callmecrude

PE ratios have been climbing for decades and will continue to do so as the largest S&P500 companies continue to shift from low margin, high debt businesses into high margin, low debt businesses. Investors will always pay a higher premium for a company like Microsoft than they will for a company like GM. That doesn’t mean it’s “different this time” or even that Microsoft is overvalued. It simply means you can’t compare the S&P500 shiller PE from times in history when GM (and other low margin companies) were the largest on earth to times when high margin tech companies are the largest.

music_is_gud

NKE, AMZN, Auto manufacturers like GM, F etc.

SamFish3r

I’ll add this to the same list as “GM pioneered American EVs and lead the way “

music_is_gud

Specifically on NKE, Ford, GM and maybe Amazon

S-Club-Party

AAPL probably, and GM/F if aluminum and steel tariffs are impacted

Madmasshole

lol I’d never consider a non German have fun with that GM shitbox

RandomGenerator_1

This company is so much more than the little piece you posted here. It's a treat to research it further, so give it a go. You have their Defense department. But the products Palladyne Pilot and Palladyne IQ have way more potential. Pilot already is partnered with Red Cat - RCAT and Draganfly - DPRO. If we go further, RCAT is partnered with Aerovironment and Redwire to integrate and this swarm with their products. Palladyne is the swarming partner and the only company to bring true swarming to the US (letting the drones reason on their own and "retrain" on the fly. Adjust in real time to what other drones are doi g in whatever environment they are in.) They have a patent to be the brain of the network of sensors. Think of all the sensors out there, on drones ,on robots, camea's, ground vehicles .. that combine data for a human to take a decision. They have been adding heavyweights to the team, where the keywords are: F-35's, Anduril's Fury, Iron Dome. And that's just for defense and public safety. They also work for manufacturing. Focussing on the Automative industry, among many other things. And end of July 2025 they were invited at the Kuka Robotics showcase. (Kuka is used by automotive manufacturers such as BMW, GM, Chrysler, Ford, Volvo, Volkswagen, Daimler AG and Valmet Automotive, as well as by manufacturers from other industrial sectors such as Airbus, Astrium and Siemens.). And PDYN IQ is also being tested on robots from ABB (soon to be Softbank) and Fanuc. And Universal Robots - Cobots. They also added a board member from Caterpillar.m recently. TAM IQ: 500 000 industrial robots each year - adds to million of robots that are already in place. PDYN can retrofit existing robots and help sell new robots for applications ppl didn't think they could be used for. TAM Pilot: new market. Drones are estimated to become a multibillion dollar market. This company was the robotics pioneer,.next to Boston Dynamics. They travelled a long sucessful road and have extensive experience, which brought them to a unique solution to be the brain for Physical "embodied" AI.

WhoJGaltis

Is it legitimate to consider the effects on some of the businesses that have been taken over by the government or had assets seized by the Venezuelan government for potential investment. I know some of them like Kellogg are no longer around but I am pretty sure those with money and that hang out at Mar-a-lago have already been whispering in the right ears to make deals and regain assets as part of deals to being money and companies back into Venezuela. This in fact is explicitly something that #45-47 has talked about. For instance in doing some research I see Crystallex (delisted but likely to see benefit through PDV Holding), GM, Williams Co., AES, Smurfit, Cemex, Verizon, Kimberly Clark, Ternium, Conoco Phillips, all of these companies seem to be doing alright and have the infrastructure to reacquire assets and be politically connected enough to be pushing or have already pushed their cause.

Affectionate-Idea690

Other Key Stocks to Watch Semiconductors & Equipment: Micron (MU): Leaped 11% in the week leading up to CES as demand for memory in AI data centers remains strong. ASML (ASML): Recently jumped 8% following a double upgrade, with analysts citing a strong 2026 outlook for chip-making capacity. Qualcomm (QCOM): Focus is on the Snapdragon X2 Elite chip, with shares currently trading roughly 12% below average analyst targets. Automotive & Industrial Tech: Mobileye (MBLY): Historically moves on autonomous driving partnerships (e.g., GM, Volkswagen). Tesla (TSLA): Remains a volatile "AI and Robotics" play, though it recently saw some sell signals ahead of the event. Caterpillar (CAT) & Hyundai: Major industrial players showcasing "Physical AI" and autonomous construction, which can influence long-term analyst models.

HatNo9667

I have a friend a PhD that works in the space and here is what they said to me: Galinpepimut-S + GM-CSF is similar to PR1 Peptide vaccine. It will induce immune response, such as antigen specific CD4/CD8+ T cells but likely limited CR, because patients with AML don't have enough T cells. They will get good results though, if they preselect patients with low blast and active T cells.

Ok-Payment5950

His worst fear is to have the same PE as GM. So many of his businesses go belly up, including him.

NewAccount428412

Freedom hating Europoors your time to rule this thread is done. GM fellow Americans

PenComfortable5269

In no world is nio undervalued. They have 300k vehicle sales in the most competitive vehicle market ever - reflected in their colossal losses. They will almost certainly need to continue diluting shareholders. They also don’t have much upside. For reference, they are worth $11 billion on 300k vehicle sales with $3 billion annual losses, while GM which owns the profitable US market, sells 5-6 million vehicles a year, and consistently turns $5-10 billion profit is worth $60 billion.

Confident-Court2171

Be careful here. Oil prices rise and fall on production levels. That’s why the OPEC meeting have more to do with the price of gas than anything else. More oil=lower prices=slimmer margins. E.g. if I sell 1 BBL at $100 and get 50% GM, then I have to sell 2 BBLs at $50 to get the same GM and support my fixed costs. Twice the work for the same NI. BKR and SLB are safer bets. Rebuilding the oil fields is incremental work for them, and will happen sooner. Also - don’t buy Monday. There’s still many unanswered questions…like…who’s really in charge of Venezuela right now? All we did was drop a few bombs and capture their President, yet the Admin talks like we’re in full control. Trust me, we’re not. Better to wait a few months to see how this shakes out. Whatever the share prices end at Monday is going to pull back as more is learned.

juanchob04

Do Ford, GM, or Mercedes have similar autonomous driving to FSD?

CEOofBeanz

Calls on Ford and GM

ScrewJPMC

Auto = GM, killer key switches get you promoted to CEO

Umr_at_Tawil

>You cant own 100% of a company there That was an old rule that was abolished 2 years ago, which is why GM China is 50/50 owned but Telsa own 100% of their stuff there.

WOW_SUCH_KARMA

>he just got there first and all these other car companies proving it’s not hard to replicate Huh? Other companies are *scaling back* EV operations. Volkswagen, Ford, GM, Mercedes, and Stellantis have all axed EV models in 2025. Don't take this comment as defending Musk, far from it, but this part is just completely incorrect. EVs just don't work for the majority of people yet.

winternight2146

bruh I remember you from thetagang from the GM days. playing both sides or flipped to only wsb now ?

INXS2022

Be honest, $TSLA is a cult with losing demands for its production. As a result, GM, TOYO, VW, Rivian are all getting some decent production increases at the expense of TESLA!

Zinch85

We are talking about worldwide sales. EVs sales are growing a lot. Who cares about GM and Ford?

INXS2022

GM sold twice as many EV's in Q4 than Q2 and 50% more than Q3. in 2025 GM nearly doubled their EV production capacity!

treetimes

Superior to humans is funny. There are actual regulatory classifications here called SAE driving automation levels. Teslas are at level 2 along with GM and Ford. Mercedes is leading passenger vehicles having achieved level 3, and Waymo has level 4. Which fully autonomous level 5 being years away by all accounts. Tesla is literally falling behind.

crazybutthole

Not exactly. Market cap is the sum of the price of all the shares available. And shares prices are based on what people and investors are willing to pay. (minus whatever the short sellers are willing to short the price) And that is based not just on what the company is worth today but what people think the company might do in the future So you have some companies like Tesla that might have a market cap way higher (or lower?) than it's really worth right now - because if you only consider Tesla car sales - it should be valued like ford or GM or others. But if you consider all its other shit - people think its a lot more than just a car company That's just the first example I thought of but you could do the same for 2500 companies.

PSUVB

Making EVs as a profitable venture and industry. Everyone else said batteries wouldn’t get cheaper. Creating the first new successful automobile company to be founded in America since 1925. Creating a car that is 85% sourced from USA made parts. I don’t think ford or GM are even close. Vertically integrate their entire supply chain Making free OTA updates standard in cars. Casting the entire frame as one part. Tesla the first to do it at scale. Copied by Toyota Volvo and VW Selling cars without dealerships. Again being copied by legacy automakers.

ValueInvestor08

Stock performance doesn’t mean that GM’s sales and organic growth matched or did better than Tesla’s

tdogger88

Only needs to be said once. Obviously the valuation is not about car sales. Albeit GM/Ford paring down EV research and production has been bullish for Tesla, as Tesla is the only company with margins when selling EV’s. Tesla is valued for their potential and Elon Musk. Batteries, energy, AV’s, and robotics. Sure they have nothing much to show now, but market believes they will get there and it will be huge. I do as well. So that’s they the valuation is high, it because of their “car sales”.

Major_Shlongage

This is unlikely. Elon was previously in good standing with Democrats, but Biden burned that bridge when he had the EV summit and didn't invite Tesla. He praised GM for leading the EV revolution (when they sold something like 30 EVs that quarter) but ignored Tesla (who sold about 300,000). The actual reason for this is that the EV summit was really a concoction of the United Autoworkers Union, and Tesla is anti-union. But this royally pissed off Musk and he disliked him after that.

No-Improvement3164

There’s no bear market til GM gives up gain.

hershculez

It’s a solid pick at the current price. The consensus target is $75.84 (24.6% upside). Used AI to forecast a 2026 projected 52-week high and the result was $100. 90% confidence band was +-26% so take that for what it is worth. In general though, there is money to be made when there is blood in the streets. Nike is shit right now but the CEO has them headed in the right direction. I bought a lot of GM when it was in the upper 20’s during the auto worker strike in 2024. Same philosophy applied.

FelixEvergreen

Why do you think launch services is money loser? They charge $70m per launch and their cost estimates are like $15-30m. Thats a solid GM per launch.

Mac_DG

Doesn't GM make other stuff though? Like wash machines and *fucking gatling guns?!*

tugrulthelol

Updated crystal ball stock picks from one regard to another: MU, GM, IVZ, CB, INCY Happy gambling to you all

Prudent-Corgi3793

Ford’s balance sheet is much worse than GM’s

Prudent-Corgi3793

GM revenue 187.4B (+2.58% y/y), operating income 9.30B (-26.46% y/y) TSLA revenue 95.6B (-1.56% y/y), operating income 4.77B (-41.44% y/y)

fluffycoookie55

Whatever feelings people have about Elon, GM is a far worse company than Tesla and it’s not even close.

Due-University8711

The chart for General Motors (GM) displays a robust uptrend over the past six months, with the price consistently making higher highs and higher lows. This indicates strong underlying buying pressure. The recent price action shows the stock trading near its 52-week high, suggesting a potential breakout above this resistance level. The pattern suggests that after a period of significant gains, the stock might experience minor consolidation or a shallow pullback before continuing its upward trajectory. The strong momentum and clear trend imply that buyers are in control, as per ChartScanner.AI analysis, and any dips are likely to be bought up.

lipmanz

Why does GM get a higher multiple than F

lipmanz

The fact that GM can even have stock after failing their pension and declaring bankruptcy is wild

NOT_MartinShkreli

PREACH!! I had 2002 VW Jetta that went to shit fast. Then had 2015 Q5 and it was the biggest pile of dog shit ever, just like you explained. I now only buy Cadillac because grandpa gets me the GM new car discount lol

BallsHardest

While GM bulls celebrate a "win" fueled by stock buybacks and legacy ICE sales, they’re ignoring the fact that you can’t value an AI and robotics powerhouse like a 100-year-old truck company. TSLA’s YTD price action is just a temporary consolidation before the FSD and Optimus supercycle makes this "underperformance" look like a rounding error. Zoom out and stop comparing a dinosaur’s dividend to the dawn of the autonomous future. Also. I AM NOT INDIAN. Stop calling me Indian sir.

manofjacks

And in the last 10 years TSLA +2,807% vs GM's 199%.

Novel_Board_6813

So what? Assuming nothing else, GM still gives your investment back in 16 years. TSLA will pay you in 310 Either TSLA will find some otherworldly growth or the only way to make money there is to wait for yhe next sucker. That actually works often enough, but “products are likely to make enough money” is hardly the reason

mrmrmrj

GM stopped lighting money on fire and TSLA announced it was going to keep lighting money on fire.

Full_Professor_3403

Tesla as a company makes some innovative stuff atleast. it’s just a stupid stock to buy because too many idiots are willing to buy at any price rain or shine. GM is one of the least innovative companies in the US. They even bought cruise and managed to do absolutely nothing with it

dentistshatehim

GM p/e: 16 Tesla: 310 Tesla is a meme stock.

No-Improvement3164

Same with GM

OrdinaryMix4013

who the fuck is buying GM cars like why? poor baby or something???

BabaThoughts

Several major car manufacturers, including GM, Ford, Toyota, Hyundai, and Stellantis, are significantly expanding U.S. production in 2025-2026, driven by incentives and tariffs, focusing on adding shifts, retooling plants, and moving some overseas production to America, especially for EVs and hybrids, leading to increased domestic sales and job creation. Whirlpool Corporation Announces $300 Million Investment in U.S. Laundry Operations, Creating 400-600 New Jobs

therealjerseytom

Some other examples to look into: Lucent Technologies. One of the big backbone companies of the tech and telecom surge in the 90's. Not one of the "dot coms" that had zero sales; Lucent was selling tens of billions of dollars worth of equipment worldwide. And yet within like a year of the 2000 slide, their stock value dropped 98%, and eventually de-listed for a total loss. Company was eventually absorbed by Alcatel and then Nokia. From a global giant to a nobody practically with the snap of a finger. Or GM. A pretty steady car manufacturer, still around today. But due to bankruptcy / re-structuring, shareholders were completely wiped out sometime after 2008. I was one of them. 😅 Concentration risk is a real thing.

CoffeeMaker999

GM Meeseeks! Hope you have an awesome sunday.

Strong-AI

Yeah that's why the F-150 Lightning was cancelled, soon to be followed by some GM products. The only companies successfully pivoting are Hyundai and Volvo

m0nk_3y_gw

Their competitors are "100% EV manufacturer, also in power storage, solar, AI, and robotics". Closest US competitor is Rivian, for "100% EV manufacturer, and some AI/self-driving". Companies like GM and Ford are 1% EV manufacturers, and scaling back on EVs. Tesla is trailing Rivian?

techperson1234

EV charging system. Theirs is really the only one that's reliable. So much so that other manufacturers like Ford and GM pay Tesla to use it.... Other than that... Not so much

Happy_Discussion_536

Those of y'all that live in rural towns with snow everywhere. Grocery store and gas station are the same thing. Nothing for miles. Everyone drives Toyota / Subaru SUV or F / GM truck. How do you not go insane?

UsedState7381

https://youtu.be/GM-e46xdcUo?si=nVBLYuAFp_Q5xY_U

One_Rip_5565

They sell carbon wheels for all GM vehicles. The float is locked tight with insiders and retail, and 0 short shares left. Last time it ran to $7.

One_Rip_5565

They sell carbon wheels for all GM vehicles. The float is locked tight with insiders and retail, and 0 short shares left. Last time it ran to $7.

river_miles

I don't think $CREV had even begun to respond to the GM news yet. It has a big move still pending. No registered dilution either. They may be in a lockup period related to buyout talk?

Normal-Foundation983

The partnership between CREV (Carbon Revolution) and GM (General Motors) involves Carbon Revolution supplying lightweight, one-piece carbon fiber wheels for GM's high-performance vehicles, notably the Corvette ZR1, boosting CREV's stock and highlighting GM's push for advanced materials in its EVs and luxury cars. CREV, a public company, merged with a SPAC and secured programs with major automakers, including GM, leveraging its innovative tech, with former GM exec Bob Lutz even joining their board.

IDFCommitsGenocide

> There is no concrete way to measure intrinsic value well that's the problem isn't it? you can't say there is an/one intrinsic value when different people have different definitions of it on the contrary, you could say the market value is the average of all the buyers'/sellers' own intrinsic value definitions, backed up by the prices at which they are willing to put their money where their mouths are some of them may view future-facing near-monopoly status as part of their "intrinsic" value calculations > They have a lot of competition right now and more to come Ford just pulled the plug on EVs Japan's still stuck on gas vehicles and Europe's car exports to the US are getting walloped by tariffs GM's tech is also lagging behind Tesla and trade barriers keep Tesla safe from BYDin the US market

no_okaymaybe

This is why you should learn more about options. Gamma max, gamma neutral, delta neutral etc. GM expanded a little further to 485 throughout the week but as soon as index buying stopped..

No-Improvement3164

Imagine buying Amazon instead of GM. 😂😂

No-Improvement3164

GM is never red more than a day and it .50% at most. Unbelievable

TheBeestWithEase

> they opened up factory in the US already Their only fabrication plant open in the US is the one in Arizona which manufactures 4nm chips. This is not exactly cutting-edge technology now, and will be even more outdated by 2027. They have plans to expand production to 3nm and 2nm chips, but these would both occur after 2027. This is also only a fraction of their overall manufacturing capability, the majority of which is on the island of Taiwan and would be destroyed in any PRC invasion scenario. > USA would just extract the key TSMC figures from Taiwan This statement is extremely speculative and we don’t really have any evidence to indicate that that would actually happen, but I’ll address it anyway. Imagine if the USA got invaded, and Canada ‘extracted’ all of the ‘key figures’ from GM. They have one manufacturing plant in Canada; the rest of their facilities in the US are destroyed. Wouldn’t you agree that shares of GM would be worth almost nothing at that point?

Agitated_Run9096

Understandably these could be thought of as 2 separate markets, even GM has L2 and L4 offerings. Omitted is the group at Level 3, like BMW, Mercedes and Honda. Not sure why anyone would prefer an SAE Level 2 over Level 3, isn't the whole point of "self-driving" to not have to hold on to the wheel? Being the leader of Level 2 is meaningless.

Square-Ad3218

I wish I never sold GM. I thought the tariffs would really affect them.

RollTideTerp

so, basically every tech-growth mutual fund then? He single-handedly made EV cars a viable product whereas GM and Nissan gave the public nothing but a joke of a golf cart-car. Get over your derangement and work your extra Starbucks non-union shift so maybe you can afford 1 share of SpaceX stock when it comes out.

SimpleMindHatter

Keyword there is “most” of course there’s Enron, Lehman Bros, GM, etc.

Hockeyshot39

Lmao and I go back to my original statement, every Tesla hater goes off emotion for a product we don’t own in a stock they don’t invest in Once again, you said they miss their timeline by years. Do you have nothing to say about the model 3 and y being right on time? Same with robo taxi Do you have nothing to say about for promising a future of electric vehicle vehicles than canceling their battery plan and electric truck? Do you have nothing to say about GM saying four years ago that they would be beating Tesla and electric vehicle sales in 2025?

Hockeyshot39

FSD is here and you can buy and use it ( I use it daily) I can’t find anything confirming it would be L5, I see quotes of Elmo saying it’s “close” Robo taxi is here now… so not sure how that’s not delivered - looks like he talked about it in 2020 but never gave a target date… It looks like something for HW 3 customers should come out in terms of an upgrade - older customers on 2.5 HAVE been upgraded to HW3 CT was in production during the COVID supply chain issues so every company was hurting for parts and material Either way everything did get released - many companies promise things and don’t deliver or deliver later Ford promised many things in the way of EVs and now they back pedaled and are canceling those plans and pivoting to battery storage and canceling the F150 And GM in 2021 said they would OUTSELL Tesla in EVs in 2025 lmao Are you gonna go cry about ford and GM too? Or are your simple emotions only upset about Tesla You obviously don’t own a Tesla and don’t own Tesla stock so why do you care so much about any of this?

Every_Recover_1766

Call me nuts, but $F. It’s at like $13 level right now, and I see $16-17 in the next year. They finally wrote off their EV program to the tune of 19 billion dollars, and of the big 3 in the USA, they are best positioned to handle the oncoming wave of PHEV. The maverick has zero competition, and will continue to have zero competition likely through MY 2027 or MY 2028. The F-150 will likely become hybridized. If they do not follow through with this, then I’m closing out my position. I sit around all night on the jobsite and spend all day analyzing valuation. Ford is the only company worth its salt (and they’re still not worth that much) on a jobsite, and with the *failure* of GM’s 3.0 diesel, there’s not a whole lot of competition in the pickup truck category until you get all the way up to the 2500 level. IF (big if) ford manages to maintain that level of market share, and if the F-150 continues to win the powertrain war, they will become a lot more valuable then the market currently prices them at. Beyond that, they’re moving to capitalize on the utility sectors massive cap-ex positions with their new battery plant being retooled to focus on data centers. Headwinds include the Chinese expansion - international competition will become brutal. From a domestic perspective, I’m picking $F though.

No-Improvement3164

Well take a look at GM and tell me why it’s not selling off.

MaterialGuy007

Yes it is overbought. Hedge Funds prob backing upside and taking out shorts almost by the second. Takes just 100 shares to take stock up $1 - thats aggressive shorts removal (like TSLA, GS, OKLO). You need to wait for negative news to strike - expect sudden $100-200 down in a day or few. Upcoming negative news is 'Gone Tariffs' ruling by Sup Court. All automakers waiting sideline for that window to dump cars into US and throw in steep discounts. Positive news - GM, Ford designate CVNA as their Sales Agent.

After_Club6421

I do love my 2026 Tesla Y. I think he’s selling less because of haters. When all the other electric manufacturers like Rivian go under and GM/Ford/KIA go back to gas, Tesla will be the only game in town again for green nerds.

IllBuyYourCar

My new GM just signed off his email with “THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER” LMAOOOOO I like this guy

Master-Ebb9786

He has a great channel. TBH my mom keeps asking me what I want for christmas and I'm at a loss. I do also would like live feedback from a GM. Unless you can think of what I want for christmas, my mom won't stop pestering me about it.

ComplicatedFella

The thing I am good at, is identifying bullsh\*t. I play the field, like a GM I scout talent and draw from the best. Would you like to contribute? Or be a recluse? https://preview.redd.it/6bhzscczry7g1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6fb81742a29a8f6ed01301349ceef30d1caefb69

Fhyzikz

Also GM. They can make their monthly car payment on their 100% financed Camaro now

HarryWaters

Tesla is a meme stock. The market cap is almost 1.5T. The next twenty largest automarkers in the world have a market cap of 1.37T. Volkswagen Group, which owns VW, Skoda, Seat, Audi, Porsche, Lamborghini, Ducati, MAN, and Scania, is worth $64B, or 4.7% of Tesla. The stock is up 4.11% in the last 5 days, which is enough to buy Hyundai. Over the last month, Tesla has gained enough market cap to buy GM, Ford, Honda, Stellantis, and still have $20B, which is enough to buy Adobe, Nokia, or ASUS. And they sold about 1/5 of the cars Toyota did, 1/4 of Ford, half of Hinda or Hyundai, and about as many as Mazda.

zzzacmil

US automakers decided long ago to all but abandon most other markets and just focus on the US due to our lax emissions and safety standards. GM completely pulled out of Europe. All three US automakers stopped making cars (except for the legacy sportscars that are central to their brands, but no real cars) and instead now only build SUVs and trucks. Their play is focusing on high profit SUVs and trucks, and they will lobby the US to force out competition, like they did with the US essentially banning Chinese cars from entering the US market. The are investing in innovation as a form of risk management, not as their primary strategy. If the US doesn’t adequately restrict competition, hopefully they’ve done just enough not to go extinct. But their main bet is that competition will be kept out and they can keep doing what they’re already doing.

zonk84

Thanks - good advice. It wasn't planned - and the future of TOST is still up in the air - but I mentioned it because it tracks... I had done my time in the restaurant industry - just teens/20somthing waiter/bartender/back-house/assistant GM stuff but enough time that I felt I grasped the proposition. Not that my limited 'informal focus group' means much -- but I had been tracking TOST for a bit pre/right after it's IPO and just happened to be in NYC for work. Had dinner and drinks and with him and 6-7 other restaurant types (owners and GMs) and the subject of POS systems came up for a gal opening a new place. It was kind of amusing -- people at the table were apologizing for "shop talk" (I was the outsider) but selfishly, I felt like I was hitting the jackpot: Please, please continue. This is potential user/buyer/customer discussion people would pay good money for :-) It's an investment - not a charity or a thumbs up - so just liking a product isn't enough.... But you're right. Based on the ad hoc focus group - I tracked... and read the 10-Qs... and then bought in. I do like WF -- but I think I'll hold off and look for some growth props. They're expanding - let's see some returns as they edge into other areas. They're looking to get into some lending areas (mortgages, but more) -- and I think that's where I'll be watching below the pure bottom lines. Appreciate the perspective!

wgp3

What original lead? Do you know when the EV summit was? It was in late 2021. Shall we take a look at US EV sales for 2021? For the year GM had 25k sales. Tesla had over 300k. And for more fun, in Q4 2021 GM had just 26 EV sales. 26. Going on about the roadster, back in 2008, is even more ridiculous. GM didn't have an assembly line of EVs rolling out then. GM did nothing to lead EVs other than create the EV1 and then subsequently destroy all of them. Although there weren't many to begin with. If you want to talk about hybrid then you could bring up GM but at that point you should probably bring Toyota as your EV leader if you just mean hybrids. It was completely stupid of them to leave out Tesla. It was pure politics and it bit them in the ass for achieving their actual goals. Imagine bringing a group to the forefront of your summit, praising them as leaders in the field, and then they can only deliver 26 EVs for a whole quarter later that year. All while the commonly known leader continues on to sell hundreds of thousands of vehicles in that same quarter. And a million globally for the year.

LevelUp84

The market doesn't believe in GM, Ford, or traditional vehicle manufactures.

ikasey24

Might as well load GM instead

ken830

In some ways, Tesla had MORE competition then before a few went bankrupt. And every one of their competitors still qualified for the $7,500 tax credit so Tesla was at a $7,500 pricing disadvantage (except for GM, which followed behind Tesla 1 or 2 quarters later in reaching the cap due to their hybrid sales). This is why the tax credit was so unfair. It penalized the innovator that first breaks into the market and rewards the ones that come after. Still, with that disadvantage, Tesla was able to make profitable vehicles while others could not.

Churchbushonk

Truth is, as an automotive business they are shit and Wall Street has never valued them as a car business. They valued them for the battery tech and integrated car tech. Ford delivered 10x and sold 10x the cars Tesla did. 100x over the past decade. You telling me Tesla should be worth more than GM and Ford combined?

thebiglebowskiisfine

When it's proven that they have solved autonomy - it will take care of demand. The issue will be, will they still produce cars for the public when they can make 10X GM by renting it.

african_cheetah

Tesla is highly overvalued if they don’t crack autonomous-robots (Tesla w FSD is robot on wheels). Tesla is highly undervalued if they are first to crack and massively scale autonomy since they’re the only US industrial manufacturer with vertical supply chain of manufacturing cars, software, their own datacenter (collosus), ML engineers etc. Also including Elon having access to folks and resources at X, Grok, SpaceX. GM gave up on Cruise. Cruise could be 2nd behind Waymo. It is a massive gamble, but a non-zero probability Tesla hit their ambitions.

chava300000

Solid analysis! The shift from AI stocks to sectors like automotive and defense is definitely something to watch. TSLA and GM’s strong performance highlights that there are still opportunities in value stocks. I agree with the point about tailoring your strategy based on time horizon-sector rotation and momentum trading can offer good opportunities in this environment. Appreciate the insights!

PooPooPointBoiz

And that's true, but as far as what you see on US roads, Tesla is miles ahead of Ford and GM in terms of onboard tech, "self driving", and connectivity. But yeah, if the US didn't tariff the shit out of Chinese cars, Tesla would be smoked.

sasquatch_melee

Called it when GM and Ford said they were skipping over any more hybrids or plug-in hybrids straight to BEV. Americans were never going to adopt BEV in mass so quickly.  It took 20 years for Americans to accept hybrids as normal, amazing management thought the market would immediately adopt BEVs despite their many drawbacks vs ICE (range, refueling time, cold weather performance, serviceability, higher prices, etc).  GM and Ford should have done a generation or two of PHEVs first, normalized plugging in your car every night and get people hands-on with the smoother, quieter driving experience of an electric motor, then started pushing BEVs. 

LordFaquaad

True. But I think people drastically underestimate the work required for FSD. I realize this sub is pretty anti-Tesla but for a company to get close to what they have will require a lot of capital + expertise + time. Tinkering with black box algorithms and putting bias in the source to make it do certain things is a whole science in ofitseld and tesla is very good at it. This doesnt include the sheer level of HD videos and driving data they have. Auto manufacters are struggling because at its core, management of auto manufacturers are not tech people and many companies e.g. Japanese/ Germans are very set in their ways Id love nothing more than to see multiple FSDs but given how absolutely limited ans shit my experience on super cruise (GM), blue cruise (Ford) and the other semi autonomous modes has been in various cars, Im not really holding my breath. Now the Chinese on the other hand, thats a different story.

ImpressFragrant1427

GM doing GM things

No-Improvement3164

It’s over! GM is red

AtomicSymphonic_2nd

I’m honestly taking all this news to mean that battery tech is *still* too expensive to sell broadly to the general public *without any* governmental assistance in adoption. That’s honestly heartbreaking for any future-focused or environmental-focused people out there. I’m guessing R&D costs along with resource mining (Lithium) is still too high to start discounting EVs like normal ICE cars. It’s a bit frustrating… nearly the entire automotive industry bet the farm on EVs completely replacing ICEs within a decade. Even Volkswagen is taking something of a beating on going full-EV, too. Congrats to Toyota for taking things slow… apparently their slow-to-adopt-new-tech strategy has fucking paid off massively. -signed, An F and GM bag holder

bluehairdave

I got a Silverado EV and its by far the best vehicle and truck ive ever owned. I save around $400 a month before maintenance and all that is figured in. Its faster, drives better and has a better interior... its fast! Handles amazing in weather too. Hope GM doesn't follow suite. I. Buying another one after this. And my teen wants one.