MSTR

Internal_Field5970

Puts on MSTR IBIT ETHA COIN HOOD BMNR SOFI TSLA

Delicious_Put_5857

ngl any advisor who buys like CVNA MSTR etc at this point should be jailed

LadderAdmirable

Bitcoin is going back to 100k. I just aped into MSTR puts yesterday. bottom ticked like a true regard

80sCocktail

Don't worry. He's still getting paid. Also, I don't recommend shorting MSTR right now.

b1mm3rl1f3

Even MSTR dropped 25% in a single day and immediately recovered

BarbellPadawan

What’s MSTR YTD?

jayspapa

Your whole point in all this was that the Bitcoin that MSTR is carrying on their balance sheet is owned completely free and clear and has no effect or impact on the $8.2bb in convertible debt that they owe. Well sir, then you are either clueless.. or in denial. Maybe a little bit of both.

snek-jazz

I bought MSTR when threads like this were prematurely celebrating the bankruptcy of it after FTX failed. I got it around $14, it went as low as $12. That's between a 10 bagger to now, or a 30 bagger to the peak it hit since then, and the easiest opportunity for that I've been able to identify since bitcoin itself. That was an excellent reward for the risk that was effectively "is bitcoin failing?". There were a lot of loud people making MSTR's situation out to be much worse than it was. They've even less leverage now, and bitcoin institutional adoption is properly underway since the ETFs launched. MSTR fails if bitcoin goes to zero, but what happens if it doesn't? Risk/Reward.

A55BAG

If crypto is in bear market in 2028, the panic on MSTR and BTC will be epic once those converts start to mature.

jayspapa

oh.. so your whole response was to correct me your on how much debt interest they pay and BTC they own, and you are saying they own even more crap than I thought! That’s not helping your argument! ha ha ha That’s just means the problem is even worse!! I give up.. good luck with your MSTR holdings.

DarkSombero

That's an aggressive low. Saylors a grifter but I think there is too much positive and institutional sentiment behind Bitcoin for it to crater barring further MSTR miss- management  With that said I have some ammo for puts that would love your assessment 

snek-jazz

> The debt interest must be paid to the bond holders yeah, a whopping 0.42% on average across the bonds. Two of the bonds have 0% rate. And MSTR has 2 billion in cash set aside for interest payments, which they easily rasied in like a week to counter act this very argument that they would struggle to pay interest. > These convertible bonds are collateralized by the 597,325 BTC on that balance sheet. MSTR has over 700k bitcoin, Please man, just stop at this point. I don't have all day to keep correcting you. > What happens when it goes down? yeah obviously the risk to MSTR is bitcoin itself, this isn't news. Of course a company that buy and holds bitcoin with leverage depends on bitcoin not going to zero. That's the risk you take for the reward. It's like asking what happens Apple if all their customers switch to android and PCs. They fail. Every company has a risk.

jayspapa

you do understand how corporate bonds work, right? All debt is collateralized by the company’s creditworthiness, balance sheet and cash flow. That’s Finance 101 MSTR’s balance sheet is unlike most companies, MicroStrategy has transformed its balance sheet into a bitcoin piggy bank — meaning BTC is its strategic reserve asset and, by far, its largest balance sheet asset. Ergo.. These convertible bonds are collateralized by the 597,325 BTC on that balance sheet. The debt interest must be paid to the bond holders (normally that comes from net revenue) or a technical default occurs. In this case, the MSTR business model is simple: (we make money when bitcoin goes up). What happens when it goes down? How are they going to pay the bond holders? That’s what this whole subreddit was about! did you not watch the video?

snek-jazz

He is using it to make money. The preferred stocks are offering reduced volatility for reduced upside, MSTR pockets the difference. He also monetized the volatility of MSTR stock to get super low rates (0.42% average) on the bonds.

snek-jazz

> A technical default on this debt can occur if the collateral (bitcoin) depreciates below a specific LTV, Nope, the debt is not collateralized. All MSTR's bitcoin is unencumbered. There is no bitcoin price where anything happens before the debt is actually due. > Are we clear now? I'm clear, and hopefully now you have some more clarity on the terms of the debt.

jayspapa

The term Margin was being used in this conversation to make the concept it easier to understand, without getting too technical. You are correct they have not borrowed on margin. What they have done is gone out and sold $8.2 bb in convertible debt. A technical default on this debt can occur if the collateral (bitcoin) depreciates below a specific LTV, resulting in a breach of the LTV covenant, which often triggers a "technical default," even if the borrower is still making regular payments. Unlike, for example Apple, which pays its debt service thru the revenue of Apple products. The only thing MSTR can do is liquid the BTC position if it continues to decline in value, or roll the debt. (which is what Saylor was saying he will attempt to do). Are we clear now?

snek-jazz

Firstly MSTR have not borrowed any money on margin, so there is no margin call. There is interest obligations and convertible bonds with maturity dates, but no margin. Secondly MSTR is audited, and their bitcoin custodian coinbase is audited so there's no bitcoin out of thin air.

Academic_Lock_1699

MSTR permabulls brain capacity is de minimis at this point. That Saylor interview is telling 😄

Adrestia2790

It's not wrong, but it paints the shareholders of MSTR as the source of income. Voltatile shares = gamma trade Since bond holders are senior equity, banks loaning money for bonds are first in line to be paid in the event of liquidation, shares second. This gives them the unique position of being able to hedge the risk of BTC by shorting the shares of MSTR. But it only works as long as the shares are volatile.

No_Volume_4690

What if a meteor hits the earth Michael, then will MSTR be forced to sell?

SirVengeance92

Except that Apple has actual products and supply chains, it nothing like Apple. People like you tell me MSTR and holders deserve whats coming. And I bought bitcoin in 2012 or 2013 or something.

OnionHeaded

The BTC HOOD connection hit me late after I had calls bought on HOOD pre earnings and that didn’t go great. It’s a huge bummer, but makes sense Hood would get killed. I blame the fuckbank blackrock types and the ETFs for fucking over BTC. I hope I am wrong and it recovers. Speaking of call MSTR paid my rent last year.

Diabolical_potplant

You're still missing what people want and economies need from a central reserve and a currency, which is stability. If MSTR was to be treated the same was a central bank, they would have had multiple bank runs and go under at this point. Gold is still a significantly better as a store of value for that, having significantly less and less extreme price swings than bitcoin. And the entire idea of it as a crypto is so that people can use it to buy cups of coffee, that's what you want to be able to use a currency as

Impressive-Mud-3362

I don't think you get honest opinions here anymore. People who are buying will tell you to sell and load up puts, whole going loading up on calls themselves. Either way sell the rip, not the dump, unlike some people who went short on MSTR and SNDK at bottom.

BLVCKYOTA

So like $HOOD $RDDT or $MSTR?

ranting_chef

I made a lot from MSTR, but at this point, the S&P for the last five years has done better.

snek-jazz

It's *not* a currency in the conventional sense though. The term crypto-currency is a misnomer, and in my opinion is so general as to be worse than useless these days. There were people who bought bitcoin with that aim, but that's mostly historical, it led to the bitcoin-cash fork but really stable coins are filling the void of digital currency. The rest of the bitcoiners, like me, and Saylor hold it because it's digital abstraction of gold's monetary usage - decentralised money that you can self custody. These two uses were always at odds, because one is hurt by volatility and the other requires it, but to me it was always clear it would succeed in the second case much easier since it isn't hampered as much by the transaction limits. Telling us we can't use it as a currency is of no consequence since we didn't buy it with that intent. Like MSTR doesn't have 700,000k bitcoin so it can buy cups of coffee from starbucks with it. In the same way that central banks buying gold aren't going to hindered by not being able to spend an ounce of it at the local grocery store. Is this not obvious?

zxc123zxc123

Smart move. Just make sure your "Move to wall street" isn't buying MSTR.

rogupta123

Any one else sold $MSTR?

GlubSki

Whats the news here? A company thats entire focus is buying one asset will be in trouble if that asset goes to zero? I know we are retards, but even the most retarded one must understand that this is indeed a fact before he 100x dumps his grandchildren into MSTR, surely?

snek-jazz

> He cashed out like 400mm in stock a couple years ago. Notably this happened after the last time everyone was doing victory laps about MSTR going bankrupt when it was down during the post-FTX bear market "MSTR will be liquidated if bitcoin goes under 23k" the idiots said, as nothing happened when bitcoin went to 16k, and MSTR went 10 times higher from there.

Ok-Grapefruit-572

Two are affected by bitcoin so I’d go with either coin or MSTR but not both and Amazon

AccountOfMyAncestors

You must full port into LEAPs on one of the following: - MSTR - COIN - CVNA - AMZN Which will it be 😈

snek-jazz

That they will not be bankrupt, and I already made similar predictions last time people were doing premature victory laps after FTX blew up and buttcoiners were shorting MSTR when it was at $14.

AccountOfMyAncestors

Just get a milly cash and sell CSPs on MSTR and you get like $400,000 right then and there, it’s easy

Mysterious-Device-53

MSTR was at 457 in July

BearContra

If BTC drops to 50k, does MSTR open at 50 or 45? LMAO.

MinimalistMindset35

If you don’t understand Bitcoin you won’t understand MSTR or Michael Saylor. Your opinion matters after you’ve read the Bitcoin Standard and understand it.

No-Incident-9226

The irony of being called dumb by a MSTR bagholder. The company has no source of income, except dilution of course. It's a textbook pyramid scheme, nothing else.

yesidoes

He has sold about half a billion in shares over the last two years so personally, Saylor will be fine. MSTR bagholders...not so much.

AccountOfMyAncestors

Guys this isn't a big deal, just get 6 figures of cash and sell cash secured puts on Tuesday open on these bad bois: \- $80 MSTR, 1 year DTE \- $500 SNDK, 6 month DTE Instant 40% gain, put the cash collateral in a money market fund, and use half of the 40% as dry powder for calls when the bogletards panic next week, the other half is still a guaranteed 20% return for the year. Literally no risk.

_Marat

Yeah this is regarded. BTC bounced around between 60k and 70k for 6 months in 2024. If you want to try to accumulate MSTR shares here maybe you could make that argument but any options play is moronic.

Noreallyimfine109

MSTR flight to quality

Sea_Condition_6999

I got puts on COIN and MSTR for next Friday.

PooPooPointBoiz

What the fuck does MSTR even do? It just buys and holds BTC, right? And it gets money through some sort of bonds/collateral/lending shit? To just go buy more BTC?

kachurovskiy

My read is that MSTR looks to replay mid-May to Dec 2022, probably a little faster than last time as recent months have shown

Prestigious_Pen_4756

i flinch whenever I have MSTR puts and a big red candle comes out because 9 time out of 10 its followed by 20 minutes of regard strength green candles

rednoyeb

Which part is retarded exactly? MSTR sells volatility, nothing changed, whether BTC is at 1k or 100k.

1M-to-Zero

MSTR, saylor, MSTR, saylor, MSTR..please repeat after me.

MrMcjibblets1990

Well, there's a lot of companies pumping today that have been on a downtrend. Take COIN and MSTR for example. But has BTC found its bottom? Looking at quantum stock again....

TheMcBrizzle

I'm so fucking sick of this Saylor slander. MSTR a very complex and forward thinking business strategy you WSB morons couldn't comprehend but I'll spell it out for you. **P**ioneering **O**rganization **N**etworks **Z**ealotry **I**ndependence You're going to real fucking stupid when Bitcoin becomes the world's number store of value, or currency, or whatever the fuck he says it is.

tika_dengu

TSLA and MSTR are the only stocks worth holding long term

Truth_Teller3

Back up the truck on MSTR shorts now

Effective-Bell5574

People actually buy MSTR? Looks like a great short here at this price

AntoniaFauci

A one year option on MSTR would have worked nicely.

Opening-Frosting-215

The idea that it is possible to have a price target for MSTR is beyond stupid. There is no credible forecasting model of the price of a speculative asset like bitcoin. Zero analysts foresaw the current collapse and zero analysts foresaw MSTR at current levels. They might as well be using tarot cards to set a price target for MSTR (perhaps they do!).

Taraih

I bet in 2-3 years BTC will reach new ATH like it always does and the same turds will be buying MSTR

AlbiteTwins

Michael Saylor, the CEO of MicroStrategy (MSTR). He converted the company from a software company into a Bitcoin treasury company. He did this by taking out loans to buy Bitcoin. He has pledged to never sell so he has to come out with all sorts of shenanigans to pay interest/delay paying the loans. The average price they paid for the Bitcoin is around $76,000 so they have a paper loss now. Under a worse case scenario (Chapter 7 bankruptcy) they would be forced to sell all their Bitcoin at price lower than they bought it. Since they own so much Bitcoin this would further drive Bitcoin's price down. The whole point of Bitcoin is decentralization, it's bizarre why anyone would buy MSTR shares other than day trading. In a bear market people who own Bitcoin don't have to worry about it vanishing if the price gets too low.

wallStBetModsRGayAF

So wheres that guy that said MSTR was going below $100 after the CPI report? Can someone tell him how regarded he is?

snek-jazz

It's not. The reduction of the mNAV from 3.x to around 1.x where it is now was a lot of it. Jim Chanos traded it successfully with his long bitcoin, short MSTR trade, which he closed as it got close to 1.x. You'll find plenty written about that if you want to dig into it.

VirtualMoneyLover

>part of it is bitcoin being down That is the complete reason. If Bitcoin falls another 30% MSTR will lose half of its value today. MSTR is acting like a high beta Bitcoin proxy.

haze_from_deadlock

The key context WSB is missing is that there are various shadow banks with an interest in MSTR remaining solvent that will, in fact, loan Saylor the money.

Apoxtrade

This dude bought it all OTC… if MSTR blows up, just make it illegal for him to sell on the open market, he has to sell it the same way he acquired it, OTC… problem solved lol.

Effective-Bell5574

So if spy goes up MSTR goes up? Can someone tell me the relation between the two?

LargeSnorlax

I honestly don't understand why anyone buys MSTR - If you want Bitcoin exposure, buy Bitcoin. If you want to keep it institutional, invest in an ETF. If you want to be a degen, play futures or leverage. There's literally no need for MSTR other than getting fleeced by a middleman. Maybe some people are just masochists

S-Club-Party

Saylor is right though, he will find new money. He just can’t come out and say why or the rubes might get wise to the scheme. That’s why he mentioned volatility, that’s what he’s actually offering. It’s a gamma hedging play, the lenders (bondholders) sell options in both directions, can dilute/short if it goes up and have downside protection from the bond floor if it goes down too far. They don’t need to care if BTC/MSTR goes down, and can make more money if it does. It’s indeed a “free money glitch”, just not for the corn bros buying MSTR options/shares, they’re the product. He’s selling the right to fleece them.

M_from_Vegas

Friday 🤝 MSTR calls Every week like clockwork

DefiantDelta

if you have a portfolio of dogfood and horseshit (RDDT, MSTR, COIN, IONQ) you’re having a marvelous day. clown ass backwards tomfoolery

ReversingCloud

Ponzi Schemes MSTR - Noob Theramos - Pro Bernie Madoff - Hacker

DefiantDelta

COIN being a bigger joke than MSTR is unexpected but tracks

Truth_Teller3

They’re really trying to pump shitcoin lol face it MSTR it’s over

Regret-Select

MSTR can always short Bitcoi, still turn profits. Shouldn't be a concern whether Bircoin is $1 or $100k. MSTR has enough employees to research when to go long and short. They've just choosen to only go long at this point

PowerDreamer2493

0DTE MSTR puts or na

Most_Lingonberry_409

Surely MSTR is short at these prices?

Material-Bite-5047

I was invested in MSTR for a minute but he is honestly a dumbass so i pulled out 🤣

Effective-Bell5574

People still buy bitcoin and MSTR?🤣

AllCapNoBrake

r/Bitcoin & r/MSTR punching the air rn knowing the USD is outperforming them: https://preview.redd.it/u3qc8ecg0ajg1.png?width=348&format=png&auto=webp&s=7b99eb10ebd44f4100a7d2aaaa5f23facf752bc0

hellojabroni777

can’t refi the debt if the banks won’t allow it. even thru private credit, worse case scenario they will charge MSTR a massive amount of interest and warrants to refi

Fine_Specialists

MSTR going up bears look away

nycteris91

I love the hate MSTR gets in wall street bets. Thats a pure inverse play for the long term.

OnAWagonToMexico

Buying puts on MSFT, MSTR, and PLTR at open, shit almost guaranteed dump

dedalolab

There's always a retard of last resort. Plenty of them at r/MSTR, just check.

snek-jazz

We know why it's down - part of it is bitcoin being down, part of it is it was trading at a 3x premium - a premium which has historically moved with sentiment. MSTR trades at higher vol than btc, so none of this is surprising. For perspective, despite being 75% down, it's 10 times higher than the last time people were doing victory dances about its death after the FTX failure, and they've a stronger balance sheet than then.

snek-jazz

Why are people acting like it's news that a company that levers itself to buy bitcoin depends on bitcoin's success? I'm an MSTR holder, we know this, it's obvious, that's the risk you take for the potential reward. It's like asking Tim Cook what will happen to his company if no one buys any Apple products in future. It would fail, we know, and it's not some kind of 'gotcha'.

0DTEKing

At least MSTR is green

vermilli21

You’re telling me COIN is up 10% from those earnings like MSTR was? What a fucking 🤡 market

Colloquial

MSTR is ASS of both worlds

MtGloomy0420

Everyone here can laugh at him… but he’s not wrong. The world financed the shithead running the country for decades. Michael Saylor won’t have any issues refining $MSTR debt. But the idiots here don’t understand how that stuff works.

Gahvynn

This isn’t the first time I’ve seen a CEO of a very clearly failed strategy refuse to admit as much. Failed CEOs often times can’t admit it. The worst was when I saw it in person when the person who is no longer Nissan’s CEO answered employees in person about how he was trying to make things better. He said (paraphrasing) we just have to do what we’re doing now but try harder. Over an over, no shift in strategy, no “nex exciting products that customers will love more” NOTHING. That was in 2019 and look at the company now. Couple year out puts on MSTR in the $20-30 strike range are CHEAP.

BadBoyBilbo

I can’t wait for a well-cooked 2.5% CPI, so my MSTR 0dte calls can fly.

UnFuckingGovernable

Is this supposed to be bashing MSTR, if its main value comes from BTC, it will just go down with bitcoin, and buy more BTC, then skyrocket even more next time

VirtualMoneyLover

Well, he never sells it. But MSTR would go up crazy and he would sell more new stocks diluting the float.

iamzamek

How is that possible? Short MSTR.

Bazzer82

I've done some stupid shit in my time, but I've never bought MSTR at the top and watched it fall pretty much all the way fucking down. 

Apart_Ad_9778

Who is buying MSTR's bonds? It must be very difficult to sell them at this point.

EmergencyFair6786

Okay. I'm likely an idiot. But even at current price, if MSTR sold BTC to pay off all their debt obligations they'd still have around 600k BTC. That's a fair percentage of the total for one entity to hold. About 3%. It wouldn't cost MSTR anything to just hold at that point.  I don't know where the investing attraction is to that. But maybe MSTR just goes out of business (in a broad sense), Saylor pays out his staff, and then he just sits on what... 500k BTC? Up. Down. Who cares. 

kachurovskiy

I'd love nothing more than a continuous decisive move but overlaying exponential fractal from the past cycle suggests that MSTR move is almost done and we're in for a long chop.

wfd

>someone will believe it will bounce and loan them $ to cover their debt. Refinancing isn't a bail-out; it’s a death trap. Lenders aren't "believers"—they're risk managers. MSTR is already issuing preferred shares at a staggering 11.25% because the market knows the risk is sky-high. If they’re forced to refinance during a crash, the cost of capital will skyrocket, turning that "bridge" into a leverage spiral. Money isn't dumb; it just gets more expensive as you get more desperate.

elegance78

Nah, MSTR is doing same thing as in 2001...

BarbellPadawan

Would you rather own MSTR at 500 or DJT at 75, position equally weighted