Reddit Posts
thinkorswim - Stop Wasting Money & Don't Fall for the Price Defaults
Can anyone explain why SSO and SPUU produce their (similar) gains in totally different ways?
VOO vs SSO- which one is good for long term investment?
I locked myself in a box spread and levered myself at 3.33x on SPY/QQQ
~$18k gains, holding for a few months since the low. ignore the -100% its an error, hopefully ; )
How to balance long term leveraged/unleveraged ETFs
Is this what Elon said he was looking for?
Dip Buying BackTesting - SPY & QQQ with Leveraged Accounts
Active Health Foods! NEW COMPANY BUY QUICK!
If you're young and have a very long investment horizon, then investing in stocks using leverage DECREASES your risk
If I put half my money into the SPY and half my money into SSO (2x leveraged spy) - would this be the same as 1.5x leverage?
TQQQ - The perfect ETF for a strong bull market
Debunking the "Leveraged ETFs Are Not a Long-Term hold" myth. Big backtest
$RECAF.....last huge oil deposit
What do you think about leveraged ETFs, are be-weekly refreshed ETFs even a thing ?
ATDS Lands New Contract, Revenues Keep Increasing
Canadian LPs WILL be allowed in the US markets *WHEN* MSOs are allowed to uplist. $APHA/TLRY 🚀🚀🚀
Mentions
this is what people miss about leveraged ETFs. the 2x is on daily returns, not cumulative — so in a choppy market SSO can lose money even when SPY is flat. selling CCs on top of that is basically selling vol on something that's already bleeding from vol. you're short gamma twice over. PMCCs on regular SPY give you the same leverage without the decay eating your position from the inside
the vol drag on SSO will eat into your gains way more than the premium you collect, covered calls on a leveraged etf is kinda fighting yourself tbh
The intuition is reasonable. You want covered call income on S&P exposure but can't commit $60K+ for 100 shares of SPY. But SSO introduces problems that most people don't think through until they're already in the position. **The core issue with leveraged ETFs and covered calls** SSO resets daily. That 2x leverage is on daily returns, not total returns. Over time, this creates volatility decay, where the ETF can lose value even if the S&P is flat but choppy. When you write a covered call, you're capping your upside while keeping the full downside. On a leveraged product, that downside is amplified 2x, but the premium you collect doesn't compensate for it proportionally. You end up with a structurally lopsided position: 2x the loss potential, but your call premium is based on a much cheaper underlying. It's not 2x the SPY call premium. In a sustained downturn, your shares lose value at twice the rate while your calls expire worthless (good) but you're sitting on deeply underwater shares that need the index to recover more than the percentage it dropped just to get back to even, because of the daily reset mechanics. That's the compounding trap with leveraged ETFs. **What actually works better for your situation** If the goal is covered call income on S&P exposure without $60K, you have a few options. XSP options are 1/10th the size of SPX options and are designed for exactly this. A poor man's covered call on SPY (diagonal spread) lets you buy a deep in-the-money LEAP as your "shares" and sell short-dated calls against it. Your capital outlay might be $8-12K instead of $60K, you get similar exposure, and you're not dealing with leverage decay. There are also S&P-linked ETFs that trade at lower prices without leverage. SPLG trades around $70/share, so 100 shares is roughly $7K. **If you still want to do it with SSO** It can work in a strong bull market where the daily reset actually helps you through leveraged compounding to the upside. But you need to size it as a tactical position, not a core holding. Keep it small like you said, understand that in a 20% drawdown your shares drop roughly 35-40% after decay effects, and sell calls with shorter duration (weeklies or 2-week) so you're constantly re-evaluating. Don't sell calls more than 30 DTE on a leveraged product. The decay dynamics make longer-dated covered calls increasingly unfavorable. The PMCC on SPY is probably the cleanest version of what you're actually trying to build. Same income mechanics, same exposure, no leverage decay, lower capital requirement.
You’ll get killed on a big up week assuming you’re trying to maximize premium by staying near the money. That’s the price you pay for the leverage. And in this specific case you’ll probably pay for it with bad spreads since the volume is microscopic compared to spy/qqq etc. Definitely don’t try this with SOXL. Learned the hard way with that. Daily rebalancing means the leverage doesn’t hold up in the long run. Seems to hold up with SSO though.
I'm think of full porting into SSO until SPX hits 7k.
Honestly I’ve given up on SPY options. Holding cash to dca on SSO and QLD until you know who is no longer supreme leader of America.
Cost savings, using internally built SSO
Americans actually had the lowest inflation, the most energy security, the least food insecurity, the most insulation from global chaos, the cheapest natgas AND gas prices, the best performing stock market (NVDA by itself was worth more than the marketcap of most of Europe or China/HongKong/Macau COMBINED), the strongest GDP growth, the strongest labor market, and the strongest currency by which they could use to offset inflation via travel/import. But folks here acted like we were the little starving fucking Gazan kids or freezing Ukrainian kids getting their limbs blown off by missile/drone strikes. The "vibe-cession" and "Gaza is SPEAKING!"^(notice how all those mofos disappeared day 1 after Trump took office even though shit got worse for Palestine?) Anyways: Fuck around, find out. Do dumb shit, get dumb prizes. Vote clown, get circus. Since we're WSB and not r/politics : I'll won't short the USA. Much easier to just short the dollar since GDP/inflation/devaluation/deficits are not likely to decline due to the huge national debt. Light/secured borrowing, go long assets, and diversify. SSO, UWM, VT, LVMUY, AXP, SCCO, SHEL, gold, RE if you can afford it, healthcare, financials, treasury notes or short-mid bonds (no long bonds), and the like.
> I’ve been checking multiple times daily for years. It’s not an anxious check in. I had no problem holding a large SSO position through 2022’s 8 consecutive red weeks, etc. Funnily enough I actually stop checking when the markets take a prolonged red spell. Like can go multiple weeks without checking if I now I'll be down big. When market is hot, I will check daily.
I’ve been checking multiple times daily for years. It’s not an anxious check in. I had no problem holding a large SSO position through 2022’s 8 consecutive red weeks, etc. For me, it’s more of a fascination with market movements. I like watching my positions, or things like broad index vs sector or cap weight ETFs, etc.
I’m not in TQQQ, but have held SSO as a 40% or greater position in my IRA since Jan 19, 2022. Many of us holding LETFs use rebalancing strategies to store gains and buy low. I’m unbothered by red.
At least you're only like that on one side? I'm like that both sides. Sold my some of my SSO/UPRO late 2023. Exited all of UPRO early 24. Sold out of my BRZU early 2025. Sold some of my UWM late summer 2025. Added cash/stock each time and feeling like an idiot who wasn't patient enough to hold on to leveraged ETF positions but also an idiot buying back into unleveraged stocks/etfs at record high valuations.
VOO, SPMO, IWY, GDE, but safe is a relative term. If you have a 20 year time horizon, I personally would take market risk and not worry about drawdowns. In fact, if you get a substantial drawdown, there is a way that I have successfully used. You sell a small percent of these funds and buy some leveraged etfs of something similar like SSO/QLD (2x leveraged etfs) and an even smaller piece of UPRO and TQQQ (3x leveraged etfs) until you portfolio gets back on its feet. Then unwind the leverage and put the money back into the original etfs Works like a charm and gets your portfolio back on track in a far shorter timeframe than simply holding
Under a Schedule III landscape, the federal mandate for **vertical integration**—which currently forces Multi-State Operators (MSOs) to replicate expensive infrastructure in every state—collapses for any entity capable of securing [FDA approval](https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/it-really-fda-approved) for their products. This shift allows established players with national coverage to consolidate their supply chains into high-efficiency regional hubs and strategically **shed the localized assets** they were previously forced to maintain. While major operators trim their overhead, **Single-State Operators (SSOs)** will likely emerge as the primary buyers of these shedded facilities. For an SSO, these assets provide an immediate, low-barrier entry into established local markets where state-siloed demand remains the law of the land. This transition is further bolstered by the removal of IRS Section 280E, which will significantly increase the after-tax cash flow of these local operations, making previously burdensome facilities far more financially viable. However, a move to Schedule III poses **no immediate threat** of California "dumping" its surplus of cheap, state-regulated flower into other markets. Because Schedule III only authorizes [interstate commerce](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/21/355) for products that meet the FDA’s rigorous drug approval standards, raw botanical flower sold in state-legal dispensaries remains federally prohibited from crossing state lines. Until a specific federal framework is established for non-pharmaceutical cannabis, the "green wall" remains legally intact, ensuring that unapproved California inventory cannot lawfully compete with or destabilize local state markets. For the SSO buyer, this protection is critical, as it preserves their local market share even as national players begin to centralize their pharmaceutical-grade operations. In the long-term event that interstate commerce fully opens beyond the constraints of Schedule III, the industry is poised to mirror the **global wine trade** rather than a race-to-the-bottom commodity market. The industry will bifurcate: a mass-produced, commodity-grade pharmaceutical tier will handle high-volume demand via centralized hubs, while premium "craft" flower will be valued through the lens of **terroir**—the unique environmental and geographic factors of its origin. To avoid these shedded assets eventually becoming "stranded," smart SSOs will pivot away from generic commodity production and focus on **provenance**. By leveraging protected geographic appellations, such as those governed by California’s Appellations of Origin program, local producers can command premium prices based on the prestige and distinct characteristics of their specific land, ensuring their survival in an eventually borderless market.
I exited all individual stock positions last year and had been sitting in 50% SSO, 30% VOO, 20% VXUS (totals 130% S&P 500 exposure + 20% ex-U.S.). End of January, I moved 10% from SSO to cash in anticipation of some chop. Feb 3rd, I took a look at the BX skid. Good earnings, not ideal forward guidance, and pessimism around regulatory risk to residential real estate, some chatter about AI disruption to companies they’re exposed to, etc. The re-rating looked outsized, so I put on BX 135 strike 9/18 exp calls.
I was selling a Conseco analyst a high end car before the fiscal crisis and he told me, “You know nothing and never will because we’re on the line with these companies all day.” I should’ve taken his advice and bought indexes as well. To recover from GS I plowed into SSO and made it back. By the time the flash crash occurred I’d learned so much, but was still reckless. Buying VT now because at 46 it’s time to get even more lame. What’s your international exposure as a % of your equity portfolio?
Given Starship, you could put a 50 x GB200 NVL72 (130 kW per) cluster into one launch. It would probably require 6 football field sized solar arrays to power it - 2 launches. And assuming optimal cooling (as in JWST). Placed in dawn-dusk SSO. Astronomers will be pissed!
Nah brother the real hustle is move it all into SSO. If you survived 3x concentrated risk, a 2x S&P500 is gonna be a cakewalk for your risk tolerance levels 😂
The company’s core asset is its "dual-use" spaceport (supporting both commercial and government/defense missions). Its strategic advantage is its geographic location, which allows for a wide range of orbital inclinations, specifically Sun-Synchronous (SSO) and Polar orbits, without flying over populated areas. This company being granted that location, government funding as well as possible future defence opportunities is an insight to its future. This is a growing industry and I strongly believe this stock could be ~5CAD in the coming years.
The SSO/LDAP thing right? Yeah they rolled out a patch practically the next day. Probably was a one line fix.
Small cap bets like POET, Kraken, PL, Redwire? I have a 1 to 2 mix of SSO and VTI so basically a 1.5x leverage then the rest is google/walmart/small caps. PL and Google especially have ne like 40% since June but I also panic sold April so only barely caught up now and probably going to de-risk a tad since I got lucky and don't want to tempt fate. But if you are feeling bullish or gambly, small caps
A dawn-dusk orbit is a specialized Sun-synchronous orbit (SSO) where a satellite consistently crosses the equator at sunrise (around 6 a.m.) and sunset (around 6 p.m.), perpetually staying along the Earth's terminator (the line between day and night). This allows satellites to maintain a consistent view of the sun for power or a stable view of the Earth's night side for instruments, making them ideal for solar observation (like TRACE, Hinode) or imaging where constant illumination angles are needed.
Does TQQQ and SSO count as low cost index?
I bought spxu.To which is the Canadian equivalent to SSO. Does that count? I feel pretty good
Leveraged ETF (uses swaps with embedded financing costs to give multiples of price exposure) like SSO/UPRO Shortvol fund that harvests the decay between m1-m2 futures contracts on SPY (if the futures are in contango, you steadily make several percent per month) but when short term volatility spikes you experience massive drawdowns. $SVIX.
Honestly, my two favorite funds would be a 70/30 split with VOO and QQQM. Reinvest dividends and don’t touch it unless there is a major pullback. Upon a major pullback, sell some of each and instantly invest those funds straight back into SSO and QLD or even pick up some UPRO and TQQQ and let it ride. You’ll thank me later
My take on Discord’s potential IPO vs RDDT/PINS: Bull case: * Strong engagement and brand loyalty; real-time communities are hard to replicate. * Diverse non‑ad monetization (Nitro, server boosts, creator/server subscriptions, partnerships) offers a subscription-heavy revenue mix. * If valuation is reasonable and growth re-accelerates, the path to scale is there. Bear case: * Monetization is tricky in chat-first environments; heavy ads risk user backlash. * Lack of true enterprise features (SSO/federation, compliance, logging) limits B2B upside near term. * If priced like a high-growth social platform (>\~$20B), risk/reward skews poorly given revenue scale. What I’m watching: * Updated revenue/MAU growth and any profitability roadmap. * Concrete enterprise or creator-economy expansions. * IPO valuation vs. current revenue run-rate (sub-$15B = interesting; $20B+ = cautious). Bottom line: It’s not “another RDDT or PINS” so much as a different bet—community infrastructure with subscription-led monetization. Worth considering only if the valuation bakes in execution risk.
Leveraged etfs come with a whole host of issues: The fees are quite a bit higher (SSO expense ratio is 0.89%), there is higher volatility, and volatility decay. Along with the behavioral aspect. They are definitely not for everyone and should not be the majority of your holdings. butttt they can increase returns in the appropriate market environment. Low/medium volatility, and sustained growth. I haven’t heard anything specific about the fees being applied daily causing more inefficiencies. The expense ratio is fee you’re paying (although they can go as high as 1.5% which isn’t great)
Considering you blew up your portfolio the last few years, start with investing 70% of your portfolio should be diversified etfs. Then the rest can be individual stock picks. Beating the S&P is no small feat that most institutional investors can’t even do. If you’re really interested in alpha and are willing to accept high volatility, try a 2x leveraged etf like SSO
We're like 3-4 years into a bull cycle already, high buffett indicator + shiller p/e, rich/smart money like trump/buffett/insiders/Dalio/Dimond loading going to cash, and expected Trump market to be higher vol thus more decay. I didn't sell to go to cash. Just de-leveraged a bit to VOO/SSO.
Can't do that. Like +30% of my portfolio is GOOG/GOOGL. Luckily for everyone else, I had to make some sales to cover down payment last year and sold some of my GOOG and gold including my SLV. Also sold OPEN last year.... plus LMT/SSO. Also TPR/CRM. Truly a disaster.
Vol decay, catastrophic loss the 1st time there is a bear market/recession that isn't like a month long, excessive leverage, and UPRO's prospectus LITERALLY saying it's not for long term holding due to vol decay and ONLY guaranteeing performance match on any timeline longer than a day. Not judging though. I also 2x and 3x leverage etfs so I belong here. I'm just saying most retards here don't know the risks nor care. My pussy ass bought UPRO on the 2022/2023 dips but sold out early 2024. Exited by BRZU Q1'25 before the massive run up. And still have my 2x SSO, 3x TNA, 2x UWM, and a few others.
Thanks! Where can I find euorpean style single stock options then? In european exchanges? (i know european and american style isn't defined by location of the exchangem but since US SSO are all american...)
I'm new to options. I previously swing/day trade but I have low starting capital($2000). I'm up 49% with 82 win rate in 1Y. Mostly traded fast moving stocks, QQQ, income etfs, covered call etfs, and recently QLD/SSO. Last week I tried my first 3 options by using limit orders and no stop loss. Would love feedback if anyone wants to connect lol. My goal next year is to step it up. I want to start implementing accumulation of LETFs w hedge, options wheel, and a few researched options picks for a rewarding strategy to stay aligned and gain more risk vs reward. All funds are managed daily in my Roth IRA on Webull. Also reinvested and rebalanced when positions are closed. My challenges are learning many different option strategies. What level my entry should be at and predicting profitability. What DTE to play to lock in gains and get favorable prices. How to determine when to sell to avoid decay but not miss juicy premium. Basically how to extract profits without blowing shit up. I normally swing trade between 3 days to a month but usually miss opportunities at longer timeframes.
there are several problems 1. the paper sampled uses the sample of Chinese brokerage account, and anyone knows Chinese market (or just look at SZSE, SSE) knows Chinese stock market is brutal last decade, and prone to manipulation in the past, if not in present. 2. It only included margin loan, and investor who are willing to take on margin loan tends to be what Chinese called "goucai", or "dumb ones with money for harvesting", betting on often overvalued, small cap security, and over trades (stated on the paper) that ultimately hurt your return. There is a very large difference between day trading on margin, and buy and holding SSO 3. Admittedly leveragef etf has a high fee, but 60 bps fee on capital for 1 times leverage. are not unreasonable compared to typical spread charged by margin loan, especially at small sums (e.g. IBKR charges 1.5% spread).
No we dont my guy. We know roughly what a rocket CAN carry we do not know what each rocket IS carrying. And even what they can carry is closely guarded as much as possible. As commercial satellites weigh less, governments tend to try to underinflate that number as much as possible because a larger number indicates a mixed use or government use satellite is going into orbit. If China says "we sent a rocket with 7k kg into SSO", what that says to everyone else is "we sent a spy satellite into space". SpaceX benefits by overestimating their actual payload delivery, government entities do not, and i wouldnt be suprised if SpaceX lies about some of their commercial payloads to mask government payloads too. There are people paid by your tax dollars who literally spend their time trying to figure this stuff out, sifting through reams of Chinese and Russian research and data and publications. Its really not as simple as you think it is.
Sorry, should have clarified. I now contribute $6k a month. In 2023 I received a tax free settlement of 46k that I put the entire amount into investments. Also, in 2022, I started in September and maxed out my 401k that year, and have front loaded maxing out the $401k with catch up since. I also front loaded backdoor Roth Ira’s as well and then move on to the rest in a brokerage account. In 401k about as aggressive as I can with the offerings. In the brokerage account, mostly QLD and SSO.
Decay is a thing, but I'm hard pressed to find where some major index leveraged funds would underperform long term. Take SSO or SPXL for instance. Graph them along side of SPY and see what you get. Assuming your underlying goes up over time, you should be good. Sideways and down kills you. So you have to ask yourself... how confident are you?
My choices right now would be bitcoin, SSO and Brk.b 😀
That link was weird and in a different language for me but I'm not underperforming 2x leveraged S&P500 like SSO).[ Over the past 5 years](https://imgur.com/a/yKwJmrf), I'm at +169% while SSO is +157% My volatility has been a little less too (31% vs 33.8%). And most importantly: I don't possess hindsight. I didn't know USA big cap stocks would outperform so much back then. So I DIVERSIFIED. And invested in bonds and commodities and international stocks. And yeah they didn't do AS WELL but unfortunately I'm not a prophet and can't know that beforehand.
You didn’t get defrauded but you got ripped off. It is well worth your time to sit down and watch some basic investing/finance videos. The emotions that lead to not wanting to do research cost hundreds of thousands of dollars at the least. You missed out on having $367k in a normal fund like VOO. 2.2 million if you used leveraged funds. But it’s better to have what you have then have lost it all. Second best time to plant a tree right? The broad conservative advice that anyone here worth their salt will tell you that a low-fee, broad market, US-based ETF has beat 9/10 professional investors over 10 years and that number approaches 100% as the time horizon increases. Check out r/bogleheads for more info on this theorem. The difficulty of beating a market index is such a consensus that it has a name, called beating alpha. Because of that there are many low cost SP500 funds to pick from, namely VOO. And honestly even that’s too conservative for me, I use leveraged funds because the market index is do solid. If I were in your position I’d put it all in SSO which is the ideal leveraged and least-sector exposed one. And honestly that’s still too conservative for me I dump my own money into TQQQ.
There is a letf reddit. And people post many strategy. I think not many people buy and hold leverage etf, they go in and out and rebalance because it is so risky. I also want to point out there is sso, 2x voo. I think YTD QLD outperform SSO, but I think for 5 years SSO and QLD is really close, most likely due to decay. So if you want slight lower risk, SSO is also an option. During a market crash qqq might crash 30%, but voo 20%. I think you can also don't use leverage, for example buy spmo. I think spmo 5 year is 135%, and qld 173%. For some strange reason in recent years spmo don't drop much during market crash. I think another strategy is only use leverage after a crash. Many ways to play around with it.
But SSO has a 168% 5Y return and mine is like 500%. My monthly stdev is 11% LMAO. I have 4 separate months of 39%+ but my lowest month is only 11% so the stdev is super high because of GOOD outliers
It's a metric for risk-adjusted returns not absolute returns. Your chart basically looks like SSO 2x leveraged SPY ETF that shoots up then crashes back to SPY level. Makes sense this would be reflected in your Sharpe ratio.
Had you invested in the 2x SNP500, the SSO, at the peak of the financial crisis, it would have taken you until the end of 2013 to break even, as opposed to the beginning of 2013 for the normal 1x SNP500 🤣🤣🤣
2x leverage is generally accepted to be the best long term hold. SSO for S&P, QLD for the Nasdaq. For me, I hold QLD and QQQI in my ‘invest and forget’ account.
What's wrong with SSO on tradingview?
You don't need options income, you need (at least some) leverage. SSO, UPRO, QLD, QQUP, BTGD, BEGS etc
Use SSO then to dip your toes into using some leverage since the share price is so low. If you can't handle it then def don't play with LEAPS.
Never heard of SSO but I’m in QQQM in addition to SPYM (and NVDA). Trying to get into SPY LEAPS but that’s a lot of money to be risking.
IMO if you're under 40 it's not a bad idea to be aggressively investing in something like SSO or QQQ instead of just VOO.
Hot take - VOO and chill. Might be the right decision for *most* people, but if you have any conviction and risk tolerance there are so many ways to make more money. Especially so if you're young. SSO, QQQ, LEAPS, etc.. Nothing crazy and can get you far ahead of the pack.
Was going to say this. It's not very diversified when: 1. Private is stuff like BRK & TSLA which are large cap and tech heavy 2. QQQ is cap weighted and thus tech heavy 3. S&P20 is largecap/tech heavy 4. S&P500 is cap weighted and thus also largecap/tech heavy 5. KOSPI is a nice change interms of international but S Kor is also tech heavy. If OP was doing that then they'd be more diversified owning QQQ + Equal Weight SPY or VT + SSO. That said, their asset mix might not be as bad if their alts like gold and bond/cash mix was a higher %.
SSO/IEF/GLD if you wanna seem highly regarded
Not to diminish the amazing result (28% annual returns), but for those of us investing in SPXL, UPRO, SSO, etc. today, I think it is worth noting that this success was largely due to investing when the levered ETF had crashed 70-80%. That's the time to go all. Otherwise, it's best to build a portfolio like 40% UPRO, 30% ZROZ, 30% GLDM and target returns that beat the S&P by just a couple percent annualized. Would be interested in OP and others' perspective, but the huge cajones was going all in on massive leverage when everyone though the world was ending. Having cajones today and thinking the result (without a hedged portfolio) will be the same in a decade or two is probably wrong. Wait for the crash and go hedged until then. Even then, worth noting OP suffered a 76% drawdown on a $930k balance in early 2020. He'd made enough from 2010 to 2020 in the levered position to still be ahead vs just having invested in SPY or VOO, but tough to watch $700k evaporate in a month. [https://testfol.io/?s=52fT0SdC39B](https://testfol.io/?s=52fT0SdC39B)
That’s not how the fund works btw.. it’s re-leveraged daily. SPX would have to go -33.33% in one day, and it can’t because of circuit breakers. Not possible for this fund to break, but single stock levered funds or non-index levered funds definitely can. SSO is a better long term hold.
I bought a grand worth tqqq in 2016 for $4.72 avg a share and slowly added more- my total investment was $3760 ($5 a week) I sold it last week at $113 a share (389.7 shares) for a total of $44k The paperwork on the sale said the average that I made was 38.9 % a year for those ten years (the highest year being a gain of 91.4%, the lowest at 19.7%) When i bought it back then, people were warning me about the risks involved and truthfully I wish I didn't listen to them, i'd be fully retired and not just partially. My plan was to wait till the market lets a little air out of the ballon and rebuy in and basically hold for another ten years; if it sticks to its 30%+ average per year- i'll have the 600k I need to fully retire. Granted I have other stocks, but the amount of time and effort and stress that goes into all that truthfully isn't worth it for me- at least anymore. It used to be really fun. My leveraged nvidia of course has done well, and leveraged apple, google and tesla too- but I also have some major losses that brings my ten year average to 17.2%. By my math, if i did the reverse- mostly into TQQQ, UDOW, UPRO, SSO, GLD, TECL, SOXL, SHM, ect and the minority amount into leveraged blue chips- my net worth would've been about 200k higher. So my advice would be to start the way I did- and only use about 10% of your portfolio on letfs like this & if the chip and ai bubble continue to inflate then start adding 10% per year for those ten years. If you start at $1000 and max out your IRA (583 a month). If Tqqq sticks to its ten year average (42.3%) then you'll have close to 600k after 10 years. 3.5 million after 15 years and well over 20 million dollars after 20 years. Good luck gangster
Nice. Highly regarded. *Nods in approval as a fellow UPRO degen* I sold out of my UPRO like a bitch in 2024. Luckily I just shifted to VOO/SSO while riding my UWM/TNA. Been selling UPRO puts but they never exercise. Do you plan on ever deleveraging?
Why is this so controversial? Even just holding SSO since inception beats VOO, and that went through the 2008 global financial crisis.
Yes, more concentrated and higher-leveraged ETFs have indeed collapsed. SSO survived the GFC and performed as expected, so it should survive another crisis.
Well, I'm considering switching to SSO (ProShares Ultra S&P500) temporarily, like I described.
inverse ETFs are intended for short-term trading, so your plan assumes you know when the crashes will start and stop. Jack Schwager's book *Market Sense and Nonsense* has a chapter on inverse and leveraged ETFs. these ETFs are very complex and the long-term performance often doesn't play out as people expect. he writes about 2006 to 2011, a very volatile period for the S&P 500. someone invested equally in SSO and SDS was almost entirely wiped out. >...consider an investor who bought equal amounts of both the leveraged long and short ETFs (that is, equal long positions in the SSO and SDS). **Although this combined investment sounds like a neutral holding in which the two positions should approximately offset each other, the reality is radically different. The combined investment would have lost the equivalent of 99 percent, measured relative to the amount invested in each ETF!**
I've had my cors SPY position for years so the gains are rather large. The gains on SSO are much smaller as they are often short term positions as it gets sold during a correction.
SSO doesn’t provide 2x SPY returns to start with….
\> For a taxable account, this is my attempt to reduce capital gains tax without allowing my account value to tank. How is this saving you on tax? You're selling SSO which should have the biggest gains on it no?
> Going for 2-3% is simply too risky for me. Huh? You're in the wrong security. On Friday, you lost 5.44% in a single day on SSO.
Calls on leveraged ETF isn’t quite the same as regular stock/ETF due to the return distribution being distorted by the daily leverage and the inherent volatility associated with that so just beware of that. Full disclosure, I own a fair amount of SSO and sell calls on them too
Go for the 2x versions, QLD (NDX) or SSO (SPX). Couple with 2x long duration treasuries (UBT). Look into the HFEA strategy. We could be approaching a dovish, quantitative easing environment, so long duration bonds will appreciate in value as yields drop. I haven't executed any variation of the HFEA strategy, but I'm interested in trying now that I have a larger portfolio. I may allocate about $100K (around 13.5%) of my current total portfolio for this strategy in the next serious downturn. Or I might just chicken out and just keep buying the S&P 500 as I've always done.
Leveraged ETFs like that 2x SSO can feel like a clever shortcut, but they actually muliply the risk big time, especially during volatile markets, and can seriously erode returns ovr time due to daily compounding. Comparing it to a single stock risk doesn’t quite work since levrage can wreck your gains faster than a court ruling on a company. Are you comfortable with the idea that chsing higher returns this way might also mean big swings or evn losses that could wipe out a chunk of your retirement savings?
How do you get 2x leverage on $100? By borrowing another $100 and buying $200 worth of stocks. Leveraged ETFs use total return swaps to achieve this rather than outright borrowing money, but the result is the same, and they pay interest on that $100 of borrowed money. The interest accrual is not part of the expense ratio. It is accounted for on a daily basis in the NAV. And yes, if you regress the daily NAV returns of a leveraged ETF onto the daily returns of the underlying index, you will find that the daily underperformance relative to 2x the index is close to the listed expense ratio + the interest paid on the swaps. You need to correctly account for day count conventions to get a precise measurement (e.g. weekends accrue three days of interest). You can even see the interest rate paid on each swap (these ETFs actually transact with multiple investment banks) in the N-PORT forms filed with the SEC. For example, this is the latest N-PORT filing for ProShares SSO: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1174610/000175272425180300/xslFormNPORT-P_X01/primary_doc.xml On the TRS that the fund has with Citibank, the fund pays the Effective Fed Funds Rate (FEDL01), which is 4.09% right now, + an extra spread of 0.90% on top of it so a total of 4.99% with current FEDL01 levels. You can search for "Total Return Swap" in the form linked above, and look under at section C.11.2 "Description and terms of payments to be paid to another party".
The only cost associated with a leveraged ETF is the listed fee. Sure there can be volatility decay (or momentum upside) but that's different. Want to make your case that interest rates actually matter then it seems like you'd need a chart comparing fees (say for SSO, UPRO, SPXL, etc) and interest rates over a number of years.
Do you have any resource that shows the management fee of UPRO / SSO / SPXL / etc over time - something that would show if interest rates actually make an impact?
2x *daily*. Down 10% and up 10% means SSO is lower than sp500. A few days of this plus one massive win leaves the sp500 way up and SSO way down. It is why the 3x NVDA is way down while normal NVDA is way up over a long timeline.
Because, as an example, in 2008 financial crisis your SSO portfolio would have crashed 85%. Can you handle that? Imagine seeing your portfolio that is worth one million dollars evaporate to just 250k.
I’m 2x with LETFs like SSO. I handle it by not looking or caring about the number today.
Look at the VOO plot, ups and downs 10 years ago are nearly invisible. May be DCA $10k each month as others have suggested. You may consider some 2x like SSO.
This is generally the truth. I think having some futures overlays, like my gold GC longs, can make sense, but my core only rotates to defensives/SSO tranches based on predefined drawdowns. Tax harvesting is the "alpha" there, though, less predicting direction
Would be better to do a 2x ETF like SSO or QLD imo.
FXAIX, QQQM, SSO, BTC. Same as before and same tomorrow.
I'm a dumbass SPY is x-dividend. ES and other derivatives like SSO are up. If you held SPY overnight; you just get the dividend in a few days. PM is NOT down.
Too many phases if you ask me. They should just stick to the Goldman Sachs model 1. Pre-purchase an investment for yourselves and largest clients. (ex... investment in BRIC countries) 2. Get some economist/analyst/writer on your team to shill it to smaller clients and retail (ex...BRICS have had horrible returns unless you were Goldman Sachs who unloaded their earlier positions) No need for phase 3 or 4. Goldman Sachs were always the smartest cats, sharkiest sharks, and scummiest conniest bankers. So whenever they say one thing I'm more likely to do the opposite just like with Bloomberg and their [100% CHANCE OF RECSSION WITHIN A YEAR](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-17/forecast-for-us-recession-within-year-hits-100-in-blow-to-biden) call right at the fucking market bottom of 2022. So I'll hold onto my SSO/VOO/GOOGL/GOOG. If anything, it means I should buy QQQ on any dips.
TQQQ and QLD UPRO and SSO ZROZ, EDV GLD and lower ER variants CTA, KMLM, and DBMF
VOO doesn't have a liquid options market. You get raped on bid/ask spreads. SPY works. But you have to deal with volatility and losing out on divvies, which, until recently was a decent part of the return. You need to factor in the cost of owning the options, both transaction costs while rolling and theta. Do the math and let us know what you find. Oh, and then let us know whether you can do better than owning some combination of SPY and leveraged SPY ETFs such as SSO.
I don’t mean to be a simpleton here, but SPMO or SSO has pretty handily beat the S&P. Are their risks and time horizons one needs to be privy to? Sure. But I feel like “can’t beat the market” has almost been too drilled into peoples heads such that a 22 year old with a 50 year time horizon doesn’t even attempt to seek bigger gains
Hi, I passed the series 7 and 63 and Vanguard wants me to choose what department I want to work in and I have to clue what to pick. I want the position that is the least stressful but I do know they can still put me anywhere. My options are SSO, Investments, Retirement, and Self-Directed Plus. Does anyone have any insight?
If volatility decay kills you in the long run, then explain how a fund like SSO outperforms the S&P since inception...? If what you're saying is true, then wouldn't it trend down instead of up?
I didn’t do SPXL but I did do SSO (2x) for very long periods, like a decade. I think research shows that in most cases it outperformed SPY over long periods even though they say you’re not supposed to hold it for long. I also moved stuff into SSO after the COVID drop which worked well for a number of years.
Diversified LETFs are for long term holding. Single stock LETFs are for swing trading and shorter term plays. www.testfol.io Check returns versus regular ETFs on SSO, QLD, UPRO against stuff like SPY and QQQ. Bull runs far outpace the volatility decay and sideways losses.
Vol decay, try QLD or SSO. Or a portfolio with SPXL/TQQQ with other uncorrelated funds rebalanced periodically. Check out r/LETFs
Most people here could probably full port SSO (2x SPY) and get better gains lol
Well if 100% VTI is a sensible strategy because VTI should go up in the long run, then why not double down on that assumption and go 100% SSO?
You could use SSO instead for 2x SPY exposure, implied underlying costs of (EFFR + 0.5%) × 1.1, implied cost of 5.3% per year. Or you could use deep ITM LEAPs on SPY, could probably get an implied borrow around 5%. These methods have defined loss, rather than loans that need to be repaid.
Definitely, we have agentless desktop SSO configured in the background and it auto signs you in unless you’re outside our company’s network.