ATR

Backtester4Ever

Regarding your question about better frameworks than moving averages, I've found that using a combination of different types of indicators can be beneficial. For example, you could use a trend-following indicator (like moving averages) in conjunction with a momentum indicator (like RSI or MACD) and a volatility indicator (like Bollinger Bands or ATR). This way, you're not relying solely on one type of signal. In my experience, WealthLab has been a pretty solid tool for backtesting these kinds of strategies. It allows you to design and backtest a strategy with a variety of indicators and conditions, which might help you refine your entry logic. Just remember, the goal isn't to catch every move, but to catch the moves that offer a good risk/reward ratio.

Kickrussiaout

Unless I missed it, you did not mention how you decide on the stock you’re going to trade. The only thing I would add is instead of selling when your up, you could periodically roll your position for a profit. That way you’re minimizing risk and not missing out on potential gains. I buy in the money options around 70-80 delta. Then roll them around the 2ATR line. Usually on the second roll I have all my investment back and still holding the position with zero risk. Good job though. 95% of traders loose 95% of there money in there first year. So you did good. lol.

charlie-todd

Semi-Conservative Scanner Delta: 10–15 POP: 70–80% DTE: 25–40 IV Rank: > 20 IV Percentile: > 30 Spread: < 5% Volume: > 1M Open Interest: > 300 ATR%: 2–4% ROC: 0.5–1% No Earnings: ±10 days Aggressive Scanner Delta: 12–20 POP: 65–75% DTE: 5-35 IV Rank: > 30 IV Percentile: > 40 Spread: < 8% Volume: > 500k Open Interest: > 200 ATR%: > 3% ROC: > 1% No Earnings: ±7 days

SeaworthinessRight26

After 100k I would never suggest anyone doing options. Or if not even 100k from 1k I would use laddered buy strategy using ATR of any stock, market history is the witness any stock that had declined (tanked) always surged as well, so when it’s going down, don’t buy at once, always do a laddered buy, like if it’s at 100 and the ATR is 2, put a limit as per your exposure and buy at 98, 96, 94, 92 and if the price is above your average cost it will definitely be, you sell at whatever pc you want to, but tldr don’t do options unless you are a cousin of Nancy pelosi or a good friend with Bill Ack.

Tight_Edge_5065

I totally get the anxiety. Between the "Double Top" talk and the French authorities raiding X's offices (which definitely adds to the "Elon Risk" premium), it’s easy to feel bearish. However, if you look at the medium-to-long-term quantitative data, the picture is more about consolidation than a guaranteed "steep decline." I’ve been tracking some analysis from WhaleQuant, and their latest technical breakdown (as of Feb 4, 2026) offers a more nuanced view: Volatility Compression: TSLA isn't necessarily "dying"; it's in a "Squeeze" phase. The price is currently about 1.9 ATR below the adaptive KAMA baseline ($439). In quant terms, this usually means energy is building up for an asymmetric move once the compression resolves. Trend Score: Their system gives it a 40/100, which means the trend is currently "Indeterminate." While the long-term trend remains bullish, the short-term lacks confirmation. The $400 Level: You're right that it's hovering around $400. WhaleQuant notes that recent price action shows limited conviction and low participation, meaning neither the bulls nor the bears have taken control of the narrative yet. My take: The news about France and X is noise that affects sentiment, but the "Double Top" only confirms if we see a high-volume break below structural support. Right now, the data suggests we are in a "Pre-Expansion" phase. It’s a waiting game to see which way the volatility breaks. Would love to hear if anyone else is watching the ATR or KAMA levels on this.

SubstantialAffect835

People that buy calls at the top of a market that is at or near all time highs, and the market goes down less than half a point, and then post that the market is tanking make me laugh. What would you do if it actually tanked? Like 500-1000 basis points instead of 48 basis points well inside of its ATR?

JohnGaltIsComing

Investing (buy and hold) versus trading (buy and sell, buy and sell, etc.) is fine, IF nothing changes with the company, the economic environment, the world order, or any one of thousands of other things. I buy because of a good track record, solid fundamentals, etc. - but things change - so when I buy, I use TRAILING STOP LOSS PERCENTAGE orders - they are described elsewhere, but setting the trail amount (a percentage) can be a challenge for some folks - there are many, many metrics to use when setting a trail amount, but what I've come to like is using the ATR Bands (the lower band amount) to calculate a percentage and use that for my trail amount percentage. My brokerage (Fidelity) uses these traditionsl TSL% orders, but some brokerages have two-variable TSL% orders, where you specify a percentage-based trail with a trigger price or limit. These platforms (there are only a few of them) allow traders to set a trailing percentage alongside a secondary variable (such as a maximum loss amount or specific activation price) for improved risk management. 

450BrapBrap

It’s really nice. It’s live and will change green to red on the rvol showing you whose volume is in control. On TradingView it’s “Volume Average / Current Volume / ATR by dalozification”

Emotional-Breath-838

Nope. I’m not that sophisticated. I try to use the ATR method to set the trailing stop loss. I always choose a percentage rather than points. As far as upside goes, I’m not one of those guys that sees over bought and unloads or trims. I can barely spell oscillator, let alone manage it.

Minimal_Lobster

Big losses usually aren’t about being “bad at trading” — they’re about risk and entry location compounding at the same time. What helped me reset was shrinking size enough that I could actually follow rules, not emotions. I stopped trying to predict and focused almost entirely on where I was entering relative to value (VWAP / structure), and how far price already was in ATR terms. Fewer trades, smaller size, and only taking setups where invalidation was obvious made a bigger difference than changing strategies. Once the downside stopped hurting, decision-making improved fast. Slowing down isn’t a step backward — it’s usually the inflection point.

Minimal_Lobster

For me, the breakthrough wasn’t finding more data — it was deciding what to ignore. Options has infinite noise, and most of it doesn’t help with entry quality. I trade mostly SPY, so I stripped things down to a short checklist before I even look at Greeks or spreads: • Where is price relative to VWAP? (am I entering near value or already late?) • Is this a pullback or extension? I avoid trades when price is stretched in ATR terms. • EMA alignment / structure first, options details second. If price location and structure aren’t right, I don’t care how attractive the premium looks — it’s usually a trap. Once I started filtering that early, I stopped needing multiple platforms just to convince myself a trade was “reasonable.” Fewer trades, clearer yes/no decisions, way less mental load.

More-Attention-9721

Yes, a .70 delta is always ITM. You won’t get the same return on a $5 move as would with an ATM call due to delta expansion and such, but success rate is better for me. There’s really no strict criteria, it’s more so a feel at this point if there’s say 10 names in a similar pattern, it’s more so just knowing the names and charts looking back. Again, I need the liquid options, preferably weeklys and a high ATR of like $4+

More-Attention-9721

You don’t need huge moves. A pop to new highs with a strong delta in a higher ATR names is all it takes. A lot of the names market surge produces aren’t very optionable or very low liquidity so disregard those. I have a few scans that are similar but surge still has the best results in my opinion.

More-Attention-9721

I mean that’s how I started. It was 1 contract then 10 and then scale as you go. I often do more than 100 now but the main thing is taking 100 for $1+ in these high ATR names. It’s really not that difficult if you know what you are doing

More-Attention-9721

My whole strategy right now is buying 100 contracts, next week out and ride them for $1-2+. It’s an easy 10-20k. Get the high ATR names, grab a delta of .70+ and look for strong relative strength approaching new highs. I’m very successful, but hate saying that. Market surges “near pivot” scan is a great way to find some of the lesser known names, otherwise I’m trading the big boys and have been for the last 17 years. Ask any questions

CatchAfilM

This isn't a dip at least for $ASTS. It's ATR at $10.40 and on Wednesday it closed losing $9. Just hit a new all time high this week.

buppiejc

Open a chart. Switch to the daily time frame. Add the ATR (Average True Range) indicator. Whatever that says, subtract 50%, that’s how far OTM you’re allowed to go. Example. TSLA has a 15.16 ATR. It’s currently trading at 433. So, I’m allowed to take a 440 call, or a 426 put. If the play is profitable, and it runs more, great, but this is the conservative approach.

Quick-Adeptness7105

Based on ATR?

deadfishlog

Trailing stop % based on 2x ATR after you are profitable let the machine decide

ddripper

Call me crazy but I only trade NVDA. No other stock. I've noticed this recurring pattern -- whenever the largest bid (currently at 180 with 221k shares) outshines the largest ask (currently at 186 with 66k shares), you know shit is about to go down. Maybe not today as it already exceeded the daily ATR, but by end of this week -- unless some positive catalyst pops it up.

ddripper

I guess I'm wrong. Seems like the MMs have no intention of bringing the price down ... yet. Might hit that level tomorrow or day after tomorrow. The level has fattened up quite a lot today by around 80% (221k shares sitting at 180 bid as of now vs around 140k back when i wrote above comment). Might hit that level tomorrow (based on daily ATR), assuming no positive catalyst pops up.

Upset-Motor-2602

I stay away from any stock, even a good one, that is overextended by more than 4X its ATR from the 200 SMA.

SAG2025

Thanks. The theme is: growth stocks, aggressive stocks, and technology stocks. I mostly focus on tech stocks. I known their ATR is high, but so is their return. They can be volatile, but I wait patiently to get in at the right time. This is the sector that I have been trading for a very long time, and I feel the most comfortable researching and trading. Happy trading everyone!

the_Q_spice

Supply chains are all about lean operation. Spending hundreds of thousands of dollars per year on LiDAR scanners and maintenance is literally the antithesis of how supply chain and logistics companies make money. Similarly, the giants of the SCL industry *hate* being reliant on monopolies and will literally hire companies to develop products just for them so they can remain diversified enough to avoid disruptions. A huge example of this was a few years ago, FedEx hired Cessna to literally design an entirely new type of airplane just so they didn’t need to be reliant on ATR alone.

SeaAndSkyForever

Could you give more insight on what you mean by "volatility likes to cluster" and how that relates to ATR? I'm unfamiliar with that indicator.

bush_killed_epstein

Volatility likes to cluster. Take a look at Average True Range on the daily timeframe. I like to use a simple 20 day (which corresponds to 1 calendar month) ATR. I also like to look at what I would call ATR Rank, which is (duh) just like IV Rank but with ATR as the input. Below is a snippet from my thinkscript code for this. For rank length I use 252, corresponding to 1 calendar year. def hi = Highest(natr, rank\_length); def lo = Lowest(natr, rank\_length); plot rank = (natr - lo) \* 100 / (hi - lo); I have found it incredibly useful as a filter. A simple rule with decent results: if ATR Rank is > 50 don't sell vol. Whereas naive options traders often try and sell vol on high IV Rank names (based on the oversimplified notion that it is "overpriced") I have actually found that selling vol has a much higher probability of win when both IV Rank and historical realized vol rank is low.

AndvsOr1956

Weekly Diagonals give you protection with short ATM however also check weekly ATR and set price alerts at trade setup to be alerted of price movement in either direction. You may want to roll if you Price alert is exceeded. Practice practice practice before real $$$$$

A_Dragon

So you like buying things extended more than 13x ATR from the 50DSMA when historically in every single case they behave exactly as I described? All the real traders are looking for the parabolic short opp here.

Bowmaster1975

Scalping contracts 0DTE with TSLA have an 18 ATR it works.

Bowmaster1975

I do 0DTE and rarely hold overnight. With TSLA have around an 18 ATR it works great. Basically scalping contracts.

Background-Dentist89

This has been a good stock. I own it. But it is a difficult space. Actually CRWV is rated the best as a data center. But it does not matter if your the best and your buried in debt, I also had ABIS. I think the near future does not look good. Having said all that, set a trailing stop loss at 7% and let it rip. I never get out until I am stopped out. Gets the emotions your feeling out of the equation. You could use the ATR as your stop as well. That would make it much more accurate.

Lucky_Total_278

Netflix ATR is 3.71, you can sell the December 19th $96 calls for $110 each, 38 of them brings in a bunch of bucks today.

Scannerguy3000

Great question. Somewhere back in my comment history I've written this out a dozen times, so I'm not going into long detail, but you hit upon the key. I use Barchart (I think it's $20-30 a month) and search using their "naked put screener" which I have highly modified using ChatGPT over a period of 11 months. Basically I'm looking for high premium balanced with safety. 200 day EMA slope over 0 gives you companies that aren't declining. OTM Prob, delta, %BE(bid), RSI, all play a part. Then I dump those results into my spreadsheet as a second stage screener. I export Price/ATR among other things. Then I have helper columns calculate Expected Move, then ATR/EM. Then I weed out anything over 1.0 - that means their actual swerving all over the road is wider than the road. Then I sort by each of the major columns and trim the bottom rows. I've got an aggregate Score column, and Safety score column, and use those as well. Then I maintain a lot of diversity and I'm careful with my position size. I don't usually do more than 5 contracts, or less than 2. (500 - 200 shares). Historically, I've just picked whatever tickers are hot. I DGAF about holding them long-term. I'm hunting for premium, not buy and hold. I see equities as a liability. At best, they can grow slower than my premium income. At worst, they can drop overnight ... cash doesn't do that. However, I am starting to collect a few high dividend payers and I'm experimenting with a system to CSP and CC on those, as well as reap the dividends and the continual ACB reduction, along with their appreciation over time. I'm not sure if this will outperform my premium engine, but I'll measure it for a while and see if it makes sense.

Informal_Bee420

I’ve learned from algo design to use ATR

failure_as_a_dad

You need to have parameters that you abide by at all times, and follow them all the way through. What was your basis for opening the iron condor? Were to watching RSI or ATR? Were you expecting choppy price action? Whatever it was, you have to decide on ranges that you can tolerate, then make the decision to stay in if your position stays in that range, or get out. I won't enter a spread unless all of my parameters are in place. If something goes awry, I have stop losses in place to keep me from losing all of my collateral.

erstwhile_estado

I guess that explains why I've been stopped out of every trade even when I set my window to twice the ATR.

dbasea

BB + Stoch RSI can work, but cut false signals by adding higher timeframe trend/structure (HH/HL or 200 EMA), a volatility/volume check (ATR/ADX + OBV), and strict journaling with stops beyond swings; you can find more information at mr-profit com.

Terakahn

No. Hedge funds will often go stop loss hunting if there's significant volume around a certain price, but typically institutions don't care. Most retail investors are not day traders. They couldn't care less what a price does intraday. Prop firms care. But retail doesn't. Also, if you're buying a stock that's so volatile that you are getting stopped out by a single day of movement, regularly. You are not the norm. You're probably trading garbage. If you specifically are getting stopped out on volatility intraday, you need wider stops. Or trade lower beta stocks. Or lwoer ATR stocks. If a stop loss triggered at close, and you can set up orders this way btw. You would get fills way way below your stop. No broker is going to 'reserve' a price for you. You can set an order to fill at end of day if its below X price. But you can't get that specific price unless you made a deal with your prime broker for that price. Institutions do this and get a guaranteed vwap fill. This is not the same as a stop though. Why should we be on the same level playing field? You think you get access to the same information that a bank does? Or that a hedge fund does? Institutions don't give a shit about retail volume. If you had any idea how small retail is vs total volume you'd understand why. if you legitimately think the market is tilted against you, then you very likely don't understand the market very well.

ErichPryde

Avol and ATR only. 

Puzzleheaded-Bug6721

Most of the best traders don’t, indicators lag to much to be of any realistic use. The only helpful one in my book is ATR. Everything else is ass, and is just bad abstraction of price action anyways. Understand market structure is the best thing you can do as a trader

Snoo68013

How do you find weekly ATR

zoomin1098

pick your poison, boys. and learn the ATR ffs.

More-Attention-9721

I feel like for an options sub, these people are pretty off. There has been heavy put selling at the 600 level, and that typically acts as a floor. Let it base a bit here, and we will eventually head back to that 670 area. Not sure what your buy in was, but you have plenty of time to make some if not all of it back. META has a current weekly ATR of 45. It could easily get back to where you need it. Yes it was slammed after earnings, but that’s par for the course. I’m actually about to enter some Jan calls here and add on any little dip under 610, stop at 590.

twi1i96tr

Okay... now I "think?" I get. Takes a while for my smooth brain to compute... (light bulb!) So you are looking for Stocks where the ATR is greater than the EM! and the ratio is that the ATR is greater than the EM. Gothca... Do you have other criteria such long term uptrend?... above certain MA's?... Down so much from the highs and turning?... Lower part of BB's? etc. or are those "sort of" proprietery things? THANK YOU again... Twilighter.

Scannerguy3000

Let me clarify. I’m running a screener to pull 150-200 tickers. This isn’t a one ticker analysis. I dump the Barchart CSV into my spreadsheet where I already have my helper columns to calculate Expected Move, and ATR/EM. That number ranges for every ticker from low (.30 for instance) to high (3.5). I throw out every ticker where it’s over 1. Then I pick my play from the rest. Anything over 1 means the True Range is greater than the Expected Move — i.e. It’s likely to pierce right through your strike.

twi1i96tr

THANK YOU... for the prompt and thorough reply. I am assuming EM is Expected Move. A simple "ballpark" way to get that is using the ATM call and put premium added together for the expiry date in question. As far as the rest of your reply goes I am TOTALLY lost. Would it be possible for you to give a specific example on a trade you are doing or have just done??? Show the approx calculation for each segment. I use the EM all the time. I just take the call and put ATM premium for that expiry date and add and subtract it to/from the current market price. I understand the basics of ATR but don't understand how you are using it. Thanks again... Twilighter.

Avezina

Yes, but not everyday is a good day for such instruments. You can make money fast in the last hour of trading day when markets still move and options are cheap. R/r ratio is astonishing. Keep an eye on ATR indicator, choose high volatility days and avoid low ATR days unless you sell options.

Scannerguy3000

I used ChatGPT to learn about to and implement it. I use Barchart as my primary screener, and you can output ATR as a column (create your own customized output). You’ll need to add some other data to calculate EM (I’m not at the house, so I’m not looking at it right now). Then the GPT can tell you how to calculate Expected Move from your outputs, then ATR/EM. Once you have that, you can cast a wider net (I loosened up a lot of my other filters) because you’re going to throw 2/3 of them away. Once you dump your CSV into your spreadsheet that calculates the EM and ATR/EM, sort that column and throw out everything over 1.0

twi1i96tr

Hello Scannerguy3000... How do you implement the ATR part into your strategy?... Twilighter.

Scannerguy3000

I’ve explained it dozens of times. People telling me I’m lying / or “everybody can win in this bull market”. I sell CSPs on deltas below .25, and I use a very finely tuned screener for high IV, and high safety, and I keep improving it. ATR/EM is the newest thing I learned and integrated. My yield has been consistent for about 10 months. It’s literally not hard. Anyone can do what I’m doing.

Scannerguy3000

These questions are too specific. There is no magic delta or magic time. You need to understand what each means, and what the trade-offs are for moving up and down the scale of either. That said, I’ve been increasingly moving under .24 delta, even to sub 20s. And almost exclusively weeklies. But I’m about to start adding ATR and BE vs Expected Move, which means I may loosen up the other two.

thatGUY2220

I respect your bold move but likely paid a bit too much in IV and did not give yourself much margin for error. Any sort of downward move would absolutely crush these even if stock price does bounce back. Right now you’re about 37 points from break even. Meta could easily get back to that level by expiration given the way it trades and ATR. However, I am not sure the right answer. I am long META over all via shares + long dated call calendars that took a hit in value. I would love to see your calls become profitable but count myself as rather pessimistic for the next couple weeks.

Tyrade-15065

Indicators for: daily volume higher compared to average volume; price change greater than average true range (ATR); price at/near 52-week low; price at/near 52-week high; some measure of news articles today versus average (or just a count of articles, the more of them the better).

DetailRe

You need to look at the ATR and base it off of that

tomsacies

The fly you are looking at might be cheap for a reason, as you are buying a very narrow range. The ATR on the ES is above 100 points for the last week, and you are betting that the ES will finish inside a 45 point range in exactly 7 days. Since most of the value comes from the last day of trading, you are betting on the probability of hitting a very tight price range at a very specific time. Also, it is practically impossible to open a fly for a credit, as arbitrage doesn't allow you getting paid for taking on no risk. A credit fly is something you might find by taking the mid-price on instruments with very tight bid/ask spreads, like SOFR futures. Where it's not possible to get a fill on all legs that is better than the bid or ask (example mid-price on all legs), so it is important to always take the correct price for calculating the fly, and it will always be for a debit.

davidsidesmusic

Avoid the temptation to sell spreads on 0DTE indexes like SPX, or ETFs like SPY. Just don’t do it… Stick to stocks and ETFs with longer dated periods, like a 30 - 45 DTE. Keep in mind your position sizing. When you get some wins you’ll be tempted to increase your position in some trades that go beyond how much you should be risking given your account size. Stick to a small size despite the win streak. With spreads, one max loss could wipe out a long series of gains. Some people will make it seem like spreads are easy money if you just go way out of the money. It’s not a revolutionary idea, many have tried that and gotten burned because they weren’t careful or didn’t manage their trades once they went against them. Learn to manage them by trading in a paper account. Also, “rolling” will be your friend as long as it’s done before the spreads go ITM. At least initially (and maybe perpetually), stock to stocks with somewhat a low to moderate volatility. The higher the volatility, the higher the premium - but also the wider the movements. For example, I sell spreads on V which has an IV of only 29% and an ATR (average trade range) of just 6 and I’ve made good money just selling spreads on them with my short legs at 5 delta. Oh and one last time in case you missed it earlier: position sizing, position sizing, position sizing. Don’t risk more on any trades than you should given your account size. I sell Iron Condors on V and I only risk 1% or my account value each time. You don’t have to be that conservative, but just pick a risk % assuming a losing streak, not a winning streak, then stick with it. I know that in my case I’d have to max loss a lot of times to do any real damage to my account. Good luck!

sleepyHype

I feel your pain. I subscribe to Unusual Whales. I look at option flows and try to find setups from high-order trades. I bought a bunch of options the first week. Increased my portfolio by almost 8% in a week. Told friends, and we made some money. But then I got greedy. The stock ran up 15-25% and I held, but they dropped, thinking they would come back, and I lost. One trade cost me 3% of my portfolio on a company I had never heard of. Just last Friday, I saw a bunch of orders for CIFR, almost a million in orders from 1 trader. Then a couple of other orders. Did the DD and I sat that one out. Not terrible stock, but I wanted an A+ setup. Fuck, up 17% today! My point is, I’m learning to read ATR & watch order blocks. Take the small wins and don't buy stocks like BYND, POET, or even RANI. They run, but they will kill your portfolio. If you do, take the small wins. Cut your losses fast. You lose 1 big, and it takes 20 winning trades to make up for it.

ImportantProofAcadia

That was just specific to how I’m using an algorithm with ATR exclusively, but from your interpretation now I actually would like to cluster indicators in addition to testing different features. I have been generally just looking for convergence of signals from the different indicators, but that’s a new concept to try out

kukugege

IVF is actually more volatile than FEMY, both have a 14-day ATR, but IVF’s is 0.09 higher than FEMY’s according to Finviz. Bottom line: volatility is normal in this space, and both have solid fundamentals.

Coffeewin

[Up over +$600k on GLD debit call spreads and /GC long futures. I think its time to finally close the position.](https://i.imgur.com/cWXx5Dh.jpeg) Been holding /GC since 3448, could be my best futures trade of all time. I already sold 1/3 of the GLD position in the past few days but it's currently at 7+ ATR, looking frothy

ImportantProofAcadia

For the first couple of trades I was going all in, but I am scaling that down and adding in the stop losses after I had the big drawdown yesterday. Trend detection is mainly from a k nearest neighbors indicator and a k means clustering using the ATR. Going to work on developing several more like HMM‘s.

_WeDoNotSow_

Lol dude...use your brain One down day doesn't mean shit But one down day when SPY and QQQ are both green is bad And one down day when it was up around $26 and dropped to $22 is fucking bearish...even for a volatile stock with a large ATR, a 20% drop from high of day to where it is now is nowhere near bullish The only thing that is looking like a positive is that the 8 EMA has held...if that breaks, this is tanking more

Turbulent_Cycle_7757

Not just the risk total, but how it's calculated. $200 risk using 2 ATR or the 10 EMA will result in smaller positions, but with more cushion for fluctuations. You also get more positions open to be fully in the market, which helps diversify the account. The main downside is that if you're fully in and the market tanks, you're going to take it on the chin no different than of you were fully in one stock, so be aware of how much total risk you have on

Ok_Reveal_6216

wait until the VIX is extremely low, such as if its held below 16 to 17 for months and months. Listen to analysts, when talks about the economic cycle hitting its later bull run stages are happening, consider that (im talking about the bloomberg economists on like page 10 of the site not CNBC people), then find if realized Vol, ie the ATR, has been consistently low for a long time. In that case, taking .01-).1 % of your portfolio depending on risk tolerance and adding a weekly, or even daily, deep OTM put long, looking to purchase for 2 or less cents or 5 for the SPXW, and holding them. Trade as usual, then, when the blowout occurs and Volatility jumps, such as last friday, not only are your open trades protected but you make p/l positive even when you time the market wrong. its called convexity

porkbellybutt

Chiming in: One of my favorite systems is Saty ATR and Ribbons with Volume Stack. Similar to Ripster ema clouds but a bit more in depth. Saty is super smart and generous to share those for free on TradingView. Take a look

80delta

Well, my stops are "tight" for 90dte, but I would still use the same criteria, just on a different timechart. The fluctuations are similar. I use the 1d chart and a 10EMA stop loss or 2ATR, whichever is less. With 90dte, I would use the 10EMA and 2ATR, but use a 1W chart. Using candlesticks, there is about the same amount of periods for the 90dte on a 1wk chart as there is on a 14dte 1day chart. It works on all timeframes. I'd use the same 10EMA or 2ATR on the 5min or 15min charts when day trading. But, I've been getting away from that lately just focusing on swing trades.

h0rchatapapi

It’s easy to just say “buy low, sale high” The people I learned most of what I know often say “once it’s in the news, you’re too late”. Reddit is also a poor source for the most part, especially when you’re not confident. With trading stocks, you’re not really going to make money unless you’re holding for a few days or weeks at minimum! Trading options is really lucrative but, once you’re familiar with charting and balance sheets it gets a lot easier. What prompts are you using within ChatGPT? Are you familiar with EMAs or RSI? How do you chart? There isn’t one set way to make profits, and there are a myriad of tools to get there. You also have to factor in how often you’re willing to sir in front of a screen, watching everything move. Day trading while working a typical job gets hectic at times, but it IS doable! I use technical analysis, most of time it’s finding set ups through various sectors or sticking to SPY or QQQ options, because they both high volume daily. Market structure and movement play a big role in what I chose to trade. The indicators I use are EMA, volume, ADR/ATR, in conjunction with candle stick patterns. I’ve had my moments and successes off and on since 2020… you can look for stock screeners online, or even on charting sites. Recently, I’ve gotten back on the grind. I stopped for a while because I wasn’t in the right space mentally. Just be weary of people selling you bullshit courses or discord subscriptions. There’s alot of info on investopedia, youtube, and individual brokers have an education section. If you choose to pursue options, I STRONGLY recommend paper trading first to build confidence. Give yourself grace and time, it’s not easy at all! Lol Hope this can be of some help to you, OP, or anyone who needs help. TLDR: Find a method that involves technical or fundamental analysis, use screeners, avoid advice from reddit, give yourself time to learn.

Plastic-Scientist739

Set a stop-loss immediately. You can use % of entry, 2.5 times ATR if below close. Something. You're down, but that doesn't mean you are out.

Known-Ice-8868

He’s telling you that your price on your premium will move .30 cents for every one dollar the stock goes up. The theta is around 7 cents so you’ll lose that per day as well. He could make money on the Vega too though before earnings hits. Wouldn’t say it’s a horrific call but I think nvda is probably going to retrace to 166. Before it goes up. That’s a guess though I obviously don’t know there could be news befofe them December is a while away. Use the ATR to get some kind of a stop loss.

brian-augustin

The numbers for this company look really bad tbh I would not gamble on this. >Index - P/E - EPS (ttm) - Insider Own - Shs Outstand - Perf Week -2.21% Market Cap 15.65M Forward P/E - EPS next Y - Insider Trans - Shs Float 10.62M Perf Month -28.49% Enterprise Value - PEG - EPS next Q - Inst Own 1.09% Short Float2.60%Perf Quarter -78.27% Income - P/S - EPS this Y - Inst Trans - Short Ratio0.12Perf Half Y - Sales - P/B - EPS next Y - ROA - Short Interest0.28MPerf YTD -84.35% Book/sh - P/C - EPS next 5Y - ROE - 52W High 24.65 -94.60% Perf Year - Cash/sh - P/FCF - EPS past 3/5Y - - ROIC - 52W Low 1.23 8.13% Perf 3Y - Dividend Est. - EV/EBITDA - Sales past 3/5Y - - Gross Margin - Volatility 5.28% 11.46% Perf 5Y - Dividend TTM - EV/Sales - EPS Y/Y TTM - Oper. Margin - ATR (14) 0.31 Perf 10Y - Dividend Ex-Date - Quick Ratio - Sales Y/Y TTM - Profit Margin - RSI (14) 34.67 Recom - Dividend Gr. 3/5Y - - Current Ratio - EPS Q/Q - SMA20 -23.60% Beta - Target Price - Payout - Debt/Eq - Sales Q/Q - SMA50 -40.08% Rel Volume 0.30 Prev Close 1.31 Employees - LT Debt/Eq - Earnings - SMA200 -55.83% Avg Volume 2.25M Price 1.33 IPO Apr 11, 2025 Option/Short No / Yes EPS/Sales Surpr. - - Trades 2,294 Volume 673,445 Change 1.53%

brian-augustin

The numbers for this company look really bad tbh I would not gamble on this. || || |Index **-** P/E **-** EPS (ttm) **-** Insider Own **-** Shs Outstand **-** Perf Week **-2.21%** Market Cap **15.65M** Forward P/E **-** EPS next Y **-** Insider Trans **-** Shs Float **10.62M** Perf Month **-28.49%** Enterprise Value **-** PEG **-** EPS next Q **-** Inst Own **1.09%** [Short Float](https://elite.finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=RBNE&ta=1&p=d&ty=si&r=)[**2.60%**](https://elite.finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=RBNE&ta=1&p=d&ty=si&r=)Perf Quarter **-78.27%** Income **-** P/S **-** EPS this Y **-** Inst Trans **-** [Short Ratio](https://elite.finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=RBNE&ta=1&p=d&ty=si&r=)[**0.12**](https://elite.finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=RBNE&ta=1&p=d&ty=si&r=)Perf Half Y **-** Sales **-** P/B **-** EPS next Y **-** ROA **-** [Short Interest](https://elite.finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=RBNE&ta=1&p=d&ty=si&r=)[**0.28M**](https://elite.finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=RBNE&ta=1&p=d&ty=si&r=)Perf YTD **-84.35%** Book/sh **-** P/C **-** EPS next 5Y **-** ROE **-** 52W High **24.65 -94.60%** Perf Year **-** Cash/sh **-** P/FCF **-** EPS past 3/5Y **- -** ROIC **-** 52W Low **1.23 8.13%** Perf 3Y **-** Dividend Est. **-** EV/EBITDA **-** Sales past 3/5Y **- -** Gross Margin **-** Volatility **5.28% 11.46%** Perf 5Y **-** Dividend TTM **-** EV/Sales **-** EPS Y/Y TTM **-** Oper. Margin **-** ATR (14) **0.31** Perf 10Y **-** Dividend Ex-Date **-** Quick Ratio **-** Sales Y/Y TTM **-** Profit Margin **-** RSI (14) **34.67** Recom **-** Dividend Gr. 3/5Y **- -** Current Ratio **-** EPS Q/Q **-** SMA20 **-23.60%** Beta **-** Target Price **-** Payout **-** Debt/Eq **-** Sales Q/Q **-** SMA50 **-40.08%** Rel Volume **0.30** Prev Close **1.31** Employees **-** LT Debt/Eq **-** Earnings **-** SMA200 **-55.83%** Avg Volume **2.25M** Price **1.33** IPO **Apr 11, 2025** Option/Short **No / Yes** EPS/Sales Surpr. **- -** Trades **2,294** Volume **673,445** Change **1.53%**|

brian-augustin

The numbers for this company look really bad tbh I would not gamble on this. || || |[Scroll to Statements](https://elite.finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=RBNE&p=i1#statements)Index **-** P/E **-** EPS (ttm) **-** Insider Own **-** Shs Outstand **-** Perf Week **-2.21%** Market Cap **15.65M** Forward P/E **-** EPS next Y **-** Insider Trans **-** Shs Float **10.62M** Perf Month **-28.49%** Enterprise Value **-** PEG **-** EPS next Q **-** Inst Own **1.09%** [Short Float](https://elite.finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=RBNE&ta=1&p=d&ty=si&r=)[**2.60%**](https://elite.finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=RBNE&ta=1&p=d&ty=si&r=)Perf Quarter **-78.27%** Income **-** P/S **-** EPS this Y **-** Inst Trans **-** [Short Ratio](https://elite.finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=RBNE&ta=1&p=d&ty=si&r=)[**0.12**](https://elite.finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=RBNE&ta=1&p=d&ty=si&r=)Perf Half Y **-** Sales **-** P/B **-** EPS next Y **-** ROA **-** [Short Interest](https://elite.finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=RBNE&ta=1&p=d&ty=si&r=)[**0.28M**](https://elite.finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=RBNE&ta=1&p=d&ty=si&r=)Perf YTD **-84.35%** Book/sh **-** P/C **-** EPS next 5Y **-** ROE **-** 52W High **24.65 -94.60%** Perf Year **-** Cash/sh **-** P/FCF **-** EPS past 3/5Y **- -** ROIC **-** 52W Low **1.23 8.13%** Perf 3Y **-** Dividend Est. **-** EV/EBITDA **-** Sales past 3/5Y **- -** Gross Margin **-** Volatility **5.28% 11.46%** Perf 5Y **-** Dividend TTM **-** EV/Sales **-** EPS Y/Y TTM **-** Oper. Margin **-** ATR (14) **0.31** Perf 10Y **-** Dividend Ex-Date **-** Quick Ratio **-** Sales Y/Y TTM **-** Profit Margin **-** RSI (14) **34.67** Recom **-** Dividend Gr. 3/5Y **- -** Current Ratio **-** EPS Q/Q **-** SMA20 **-23.60%** Beta **-** Target Price **-** Payout **-** Debt/Eq **-** Sales Q/Q **-** SMA50 **-40.08%** Rel Volume **0.30** Prev Close **1.31** Employees **-** LT Debt/Eq **-** Earnings **-** SMA200 **-55.83%** Avg Volume **2.25M** Price **1.33** IPO **Apr 11, 2025** Option/Short **No / Yes** EPS/Sales Surpr. **- -** Trades **2,294** Volume **673,445** Change **1.53%**|

kienta99

I’ll say for your core conviction you should never sell For the moonshots, look at some technical indicator like ATR and see how volatile they are, place a trailing stop loss and never look at them again. Then you never have to worry when to sell

Coffeewin

Gradually scaling out and locking in gains on META. Very nice +8% port for the week. Will be deleveraging longs in general since NDX/SPX are both at 3+ ATR with $PCALL at lowest reading since April. Opening fresh new longs right now doesn't have a great R/R. Also end of September tends to be weaker

Dogethathoe

I can easily verify brother, input into your Chat GPt, wanting to trade using RSI, VWAP,EMA. On a 5 minute chart, with ATR, OBV, MACD, ADL, and how it can help you identify winning trades

Coffeewin

$PCALL is lowest it's been since April with major indexes at 3 ATR. Scaling out of META and AMZN to reduce risk into FOMC tomorrow

Dogethathoe

Stop asking AI stuff, Tell AI to work for you. RSI/VWAP/EMA All above 50. 5 minute charts Indicators MACD/RSI/ATR/OBV/ADL THREE AMIGOS ONLY AGREE ABOVE fifty to trade. If they do not agree find one that does and buy call options Set SL/TP -30%|+50% Go have fine When your profits hit, replenish capital Remaining profits invest high yield dividend with drip. Each trade rinse wash repeat, do this in a Roth account, or Mega Roth account as a contribution deposit to trade with and your tax free with every trade. Thank me later 🫡

abewiklund

Oh man, I don’t think there’s enough space to list my mistakes. For one, I tried too many strategies. Next I chased high volatility stocks for CSP’s. I was assigned many times. Writing calls on stocks I wanted to keep. So, I’ve changed. Smaller but more frequent CSP wins, look for delta under 20 and < 45 days to expiration. Lower ATR/volatility.

brucekeller

I just use the free version and then thinkorswim for when I want to get frisky with advanced screeners and indicators and whatnot. Finviz too for just quick charts to browse through real quick. Unsual volume and low ATR is my jam, but has to look good on the chart too.

Numerous_Season8124

Level 3 options - spreads and condors - Tasty Trade and Robinhood. Position sizing is managed by having a four-sleeve portfolio management strategy. First, I do volatility arbitrage on news events through the use of calendar spreads. Close them before the event to prevent major directional risk. I have an income generation sleeve that I run iron condors or credit spreads on. This is on 0dte or weeklies, with a few mmonthly contracts from time to time. I have a directional overlay that I purchase long options or debit spreads on. I usually use this on stocks at a major support level showing signs of being undervalued, with a rising RSI and ATR. Finally, I run a tail risk hedge of 20% of my capital. An easy way to do this is long puts 90 days out or long debit spreads 90 days out. The biggest challenge on a small account is bypassing the PDT rule. It is easy to bypass by opening wide condors or credit spreads on SPX or XSP 0dtes and letting them expire (this doesn’t count as a day trade because there is no closing trade.) The biggest thing here is knowing how to manage these types of trades, and using small position sizing to grow your account. Also, save your day trades for managing positions by using the XSP and SPX day trading trick on the income sleeve. Good luck and happy trading!

octopus_serenader

case was opened for public comments and there are 4000+. comments closed early July. case it still open and i'm sure they have a lot of work to do. [https://www.regulations.gov/document/ATR-2025-0002-0002/comment](https://www.regulations.gov/document/ATR-2025-0002-0002/comment)

WarmCalligrapher3006

that's like 3 ATR away .. lol, i'd get calls on that any given week and perhaps print

sharpetwo

You are right to be suspicious. Comparing ATR to implied vol is like comparing a yardstick to a compass — different units, different purpose. Pros do not look at ATR at all by the way. They compare realized volatility (annualized properly from returns) to implied and that spread, called the variance risk premium, is the basis of many strategies or at least positioning. If you want to level up from “income strategy crash courses,” here are a few nice and practical addition to your bookshelf: * Sinclair’s *Volatility Trading:* the best bridge from retail heuristics to professional vol thinking. * Sinclair’s *Positional Option Trading:* even better for the system-builder mindset, where you stop asking “which spread?” and start asking “what edge does the market give me?” This one is particularly useful to start looking at trading like a business. * Taleb’s *Dynamic Hedging* dense, dated, but still the trader’s manual. Not for everyone and if you had only one take away: always buy some very OTM options, and usually far in time, because the market is notoriously bad at predicting tail scenarios. Start calculating realized vol yourself, line it up against the term structure of implieds, and you will see why the “ATR vs IV” framing is a dead end. Once you see the VRP, you cannot unsee it.

hloodybell

Scale out/roll out. Have multiple price targets at key levels. Move SL to breakeven and up. Once a trade hits the first PT, there is no reason to let it go to red. Leave a runner or two. Watch ATR levels and market levels as the price moves.

Vivid-Avocado9342

I’ve backtested this exact thought using pinescript. Not sure what wall you’re hitting, but Claude can probably get your backtest compiling properly in tradingview for you. Ther only strategy I was able to get working somewhat profitably was using ATR bands to decide when to purchase the dips and placing bracket orders to lock in both up side and down side. Even the profitable strategy gets stopped out of the trade most of the time, but the few winners were able to make enough to compensate for those losses. It didn’t seem that solid to me honestly, but it did technically work with the right governing rules in place.

abewiklund

Not me. I had some shares, made a little and got out. ATR too high for me.

Beingol

Thanks for your advice! I used -25% stop loss on every option trades I entered, but I didn’t enforce it enough. 1.5ATR sounds like a good idea, I tried with ATR for swing trades earlier but it’s hard to keep track of the amount. So I made it simple to use percentage. Yes I do need a consistent strategy that proved effective!

LogOk5299

Unfortunately it’s very hard for people who have full time jobs to trade options. It doesn’t sound like you have an edge or a consistent strategy. This comes with time and tens of thousands of hours of chart reading. Keep your chin up and just focus on slowly investing in good names and perhaps swing trading shares with stop loss based on 1.5 daily ATR. If you don’t know what an ATR is, then again I would just kick back and enjoy your job and life. Trading consistently and profitably month after month takes the same energy as a full time job. Good traders can take a 25k account slowly and safely to 30k or 35k in a few months. But it takes time and patience. No 0 dte, and rarely does it mean you’re buying options. Instead these traders use shares because it’s easy to get out at breakeven due to the stop loss feature on these platforms. Take care

Worried-Scarcity-410

Leaps ITM is too expensive. I only buy Leaps ATM or OTM. The key is to look at ATR. If ATR is high, it will reach OTM price in no time. Just like UNH, it went up $30 in a day. If you bought $300 OTM a week ago, it already becomes ITM.

WickOfDeath

Warren Buffet looks at a monthly chart and says "look this is overbought, in two till three years we will see a correction. That guy plans for 5 years or 25. Not for a day or a week. And not even Copilot with "deep thinking" knows anything about stock indices... as an experienced trader I use the ATR on the daily or weekly but Copilot gives me 5000 points of ranges for a day's price. Could be 24K but also 21.5 or 26.5.

Crazybuttondot

Shs Outstand368.87MPerf Week-13.66%Market Cap4.06BForward P/E-EPS next Y-0.23Insider Trans-3.46%Shs Float360.91MPerf Month-10.13%Enterprise Value3.82BPEG-EPS next Q-0.09Inst Own42.12%Short Float33.75%Perf Quarter10.49%Income-188.52MP/S39.73EPS this Y109.62%Inst Trans20.14%Short Ratio3.23Perf Half Y-27.79%Sales102.23MP/B10.22EPS next Y-330.00%ROA-43.07%Short Interest121.82MPerf YTD-49.04%Book/sh0.99P/C16.52EPS next 5Y-ROE-68.22%52W High24.98 -59.53%Perf Year104.24%Cash/sh0.61P/FCF-EPS past 3/5Y-37.66% -ROIC-47.19%52W Low3.94 156.60%Perf 3Y166.75%Dividend Est.-EV/EBITDA-Sales past 3/5Y58.68% -Gross Margin34.35%Volatility7.01% 7.80%Perf 5Y-Dividend TTM-EV/Sales37.37EPS Y/Y TTM-42.58%Oper. Margin-132.17%ATR (14)0.82Perf 10Y-Dividend Ex-Date-Quick Ratio4.92Sales Y/Y TTM101.39%Profit Margin-184.41%RSI (14)40.92Recom2.00Dividend Gr. 3/5Y- -Current Ratio4.92EPS Q/Q368.04%SMA20-13.03%Beta2.77Target Price11.83Payout-Debt/Eq0.01Sales Q/Q151.24%SMA50-4.95%Rel Volume0.68Prev Close10.33Employees842LT Debt/Eq0.01EarningsAug 07 AMCSMA200-6.88%Avg Volume37.74M

TypeAMamma

QQQ and SPY has a smaller ATR than a few months ago, so I’m finding that ITM options work better in the current market. I aim for around a 60 Delta.

Electrikbill

ATR is average true range and I think Saty is the name of the creator of a specific version of an ATR indicator.

AlfrescoDog

My entries are whenever I notice a reversal. The stops are a proprietary formula that is similar to ATR, but they tighten up based on different EMAs.

Dizzy-Pressure5457

i've been trading for three months and my biggest challenge at the moment now that I have improved at executing my risk management is exit plans. I dont know where to take profit or exit. What im learning is using what if statements are helping me . So say I use FIB I will say I will take profit at x but if it moves back to this level I exit. Or if I use 15 min timeframe as an indication if candle moves down to 50 % and closes red I exit or if I use ATR if it moves from a breakout to middle band i'll exit. Journal, test your strategy and find what works for you. I will say that entering at a great level where even if you have a drop you're still in green is a big factor for your psychology. The drop on IXHL I was still in green and had conviction in a rebound, that meant instead of panic selling I saw it as a discount opportunity. Best of luck

KDPM-

Hi Steve, Thanks for sharing, I’m keen to get any thoughts you might have please regarding Australian company ATR (Astron Corp LTD) - Australian miner that has 51% ownership in the Donald Project that UUUU has an interest in. Thanks in advance, have a stellar week ahead mate! 😊

longshortdaytrade

You can try with previous daily lows (calls) and highs (puts) or previous daily close (put) or open (calls). When the market is moving faster replace with the 4h time frame. You can screen in or out with ATR or keltner channels.

SPaniardz

DNUT is setting up for a potentially powerful move today, supported by strong technical momentum, aggressive options flow, and bullish sentiment across the board. The recent price action shows a sharp bounce off support with rising acceleration and positive crossover in the True Strength Index, while the ATR indicates expanding volatility.

Lopsided-Honey6975

Combined with technical index optimization Moving Average (MA): set the stop loss below a certain moving average (such as the 20-day moving average) and adjust it dynamically with the moving average. Bollinger Band: Set the stop loss position on the lower rail (long position) or the upper rail (short position) of the Bollinger Band to adapt to the fluctuation. ATR (Average Real Volatility): Stop loss distance = current price-ATR× multiple (such as 2 times ATR), the greater the volatility, the wider the stop loss distance.

Equivalent-Badger439

Personally, I prefer to buy contracts at least near the 8 EMA or the point of control (VRVP) on whatever time frame I am analyzing. With OPEN at 5 ATR on multiple timeframes, I believe a pullback is imminent. The markets are unpredictable. OPEN could rise to $3.95 with only minor pullbacks of $0.25 each time it pauses, or it could drop to $1.70 by Monday at 4 pm. You never know for sure, but you definitely don't want to pay $1.20, because if OPEN opens where it is currently, those contracts won't be worth $0.89. You could end up losing significantly by the close, with your position down. In summary, make sure you understand the risks before you accept them. Good luck!