UPRO

nooneinparticular246

I had a fantastic year and all I did was buy the dip with UPRO (SPY x3 lev etf). Took a 100% profit.

zxc123zxc123

Vol decay, catastrophic loss the 1st time there is a bear market/recession that isn't like a month long, excessive leverage, and UPRO's prospectus LITERALLY saying it's not for long term holding due to vol decay and ONLY guaranteeing performance match on any timeline longer than a day. Not judging though. I also 2x and 3x leverage etfs so I belong here. I'm just saying most retards here don't know the risks nor care. My pussy ass bought UPRO on the 2022/2023 dips but sold out early 2024. Exited by BRZU Q1'25 before the massive run up. And still have my 2x SSO, 3x TNA, 2x UWM, and a few others.

AICHEngineer

Bro Leverage cost for a 3x LETF is ( EFFR + 0.4% ) × 1.1 swap exposure × 2 points of leverage Current EFFR is 3.64%, so barring further rate cuts, total return equity swaps cost 8.89% APY for UPRO or TQQQ, not 2.5%. This is separate from the 0.91% expense ratio. That being said, I use UPRO in a diversified portfolio of uncorrelated assets, but dont lowball the costs in your planning.

zxc123zxc123

Had some of my cash covered puts get executed like UPRO/TNA. Sold out like a bitch as soon as I had gains to get cash back again and sell more downside cash covered puts. Should have just kept the UPRO/TNA.

g-unit2

thank you, this is a great take. *past performance does not indicate future performance* with that said, it’s still hard to not look at the 5, 10 year returns of VOO vs UPRO and not see opportunity left on the table. for someone as young and secure as I am, I feel like i’m fortunate to be in a position to be able to risk 5% of my portfolio for some high potential upside. i’m already well into Coast FIRE with my current portfolio. if you have a second, curious to hear you poke some holes in this comment as well, thanks in advance.

the_humeister

I was -50% at one point on UPRO. Then I sold when I got to even. Should have held instead...

AICHEngineer

Im a huge fan, using a partial allocation to LETFs to increase exposure to the market to make room for uncorrelated diversifiers. Bonds, managed futures, gold. Uncorrelated assets offer the opportunity to rebalance on a fixed schedule like a target date fund but with more juice. I use UPRO, GDE, RSST to provide leverage, and add in ZROZ and AVDV and AVNV for long term treasury exposure and intl value exposure.

NotAnotherRebate

Man, it can drop a lot more than 30% and you have to be ok with that. The market can and will test your limits and beyond. I've bought UPRO and held for years. I currently have some positions that date back to 2021. I buy on large dips and wait for the eventual rebound and sell as it goes up. As it stands now I have over 600k in just profit that I let ride and harvest chunks of profits from it when the market stars feeling frothy. So for example, if it jumps up to 700k, I may end up selling 50-100k in chunks of 10k, locking in some profit. I take that profit and buy the SPY so that I'm always invested. When the markets shoot down start increasing my exposure in LETFs. It's a great tool for taking advantage of market swings. But you have to have balls of steel when that shits going down. As an example, I bought into the April tariff scare. It shot down more, so I bought more. Then it shot down more and I bought a little more. At this point I had over 1.7million in LETFS. Then it just kept going down another 10%, I panicked with losses of 1.2million at the lows and my ass stopped purchasing. As the market shot back up, I sold for a profit but I should have held it till the full rebound. I just could not trust what that Orange menace would do next and how the market would react to him. Luckily I was up over 1mill in profits earlier this month so its ended up well. In the end, I do believe in the markets and it's ability to recover and reach new highs. That's what helps me in having the conviction to hold onto something like UPRO. But the market will test your limits.

BallEnvironmental670

UPRO is my only vice

markpreston54

I disagree. as long as your expected return outpaces interest rate, your mean expected wealth increases, it is the median wealth and by extension, in economic terms, expected utility from wealth that may get hurt from leverage (or in laymen term, risking what you need for what you don't need when you over leverage). if you present the statement to real estate investor who invested in the for a long time, say 30 years, in practically all major city around the world, they will very likely disagree, if not laugh at you. If you buy and hold UPRO since inception, you would have outperformed SPY by quite a few despite being torched by 2008 or covid flash crash. Leverage using "smart debt" is not dumb

TheRealArmament

QQQ/VOO and UPRO cause I’m feeling spicy

teamyg

SPY will hit new high tomorrow. If you dunno want to buy, just get some UPRO. Makret-Makers' plan is so obvious, time to load up.

RSI-Watcher

Any index etf that is at an all time high proves you can hold and make money. Trade the dips, and when you're wrong, don't sell, just hold and wait. You'll eventually go green again. Granted, you won't make money like in the SMX run this week, but you won't lose either. Study a 50 year SPY or QQQ chart, it's dips, and trade UPRO or TQQQ. See how that works. But don't quit. Follow your rules. Remember, in every 1000% small cap runner, there's lots of losers and bag holders. So stay out.

Apprehensive-Mix4473

I had a strange idea to combine UPRO and XDTE with SPY puts purchased off the XDTE dividends as a hedge. I ran the numbers, how it would behave in drawdown, and realized; Ok, this is essentially just buying VOO. Oh well. Back to the drawring board.

Iunatic

Stop thinking so much about these things. Just buy 90% VOO and 10% UPRO and you'll probably outperform most of the regards here

w562d67Z

Didn't someone try this already with triple leveraged UPRO and TMF, which promptly blew up in 2022?

k0unitX

So UPRO with extra steps?

Dapper_Addition_3837

Solid aggressive tilt, but it’s too concentrated and has overlap/risk issues for a 7-12y horizon.Quick revised version (still very aggressive but cleaner): * VWCE/VWRL → 30% (keep broad world exposure, lower than before) * Nasdaq-100 (e.g. QDVE or UPRO if levered ok) → 35% (your main growth engine) * Emerging Markets (e.g. EIMI or EMIM) → 15% (good, bump a bit) * ASML → 5-7% (10% single stock is too much for 7y goal) * Biotech/AI biotech (SBIO or similar) → 8-10% * Bitcoin/ETH (spot ETF if available) → 5% max (volatility killer if it dumps 70%+ again) Total equity \~95-98%, BTC 5%. Expected return high, but drawdowns can easily hit -50% or worse.Key fixes: * Cut ASML to ≤7% (one Dutch fab delay = -30% fast) * Don’t double-count Nasdaq exposure (VWRL already has \~20-25% US tech) * Cap BTC at 5% – it’s a lottery ticket, not the core If your broker really sucks for ETFs, just go 50% Nasdaq-100 + 30% EM + 10% SBIO + 5-7% ASML + 5% BTC and call it a day. Still >90% equity, very aggressive, simpler. You’re fine with -60% drawdowns for a few years, right? If not, dial Nasdaq to 25-30%.

DesignerSea494

Ok. Ramp in hedges as your portfolio grows. KMLM, TLT, GLD. Then, when you approach your target; start siphoning high risk plays and leverage into VOO. My number is 2M an here’s how I’ll be allocated when I hit that: 5% speculative, 15% leveraged SPY (UPRO or similar), 50% hedge (TLT, KMLM, GLD, Cash, and 30% VOO.

DesignerSea494

So damned predictable. When WSB bearish, full-port UPRO. When bullish, shave profit. The realized gain this year has been insane.

DesignerSea494

I didn’t buy calls on Friday. I did buy UPRO tho.

KyOatey

So the SPXL or UPRO (3x S&P 500) would be better in that regard.

arctic_bull

You mean the daily rebalancing effect? Daily rebalancing hurts NAV when the price oscillates around a mid point, it actually helps when there’s directionality. So the UPRO 3X SPY has actually performed closer to 4X SPY long term because the S&P tends up. If you see a sustained move down I’d expect SQQQ to exceed its benchmark leverage target.

AffectionateLeek5854

TQQQ UPRO and SHNY . Tech , S&P 500, and gold for safety.

VotedOut

Your comments in this thread are a bubble indicator to me: * Large six-figure positions in UPRO an TQQQ when the S&P 500 valuation measures by CAPE ratio, Buffett Indicator, and Mean Reversion metrics are all at 1929/2000/2021 levels [(2 standard deviations above historical trend](http://currentmarketvaluation.com), which were all bubbles in the past that preceded crashes). Valuation-wise, there is almost no denying that the market is in a bubble. * "Not even Trump attempting to nuke the entire economy could bring it down 25%." A 25% market drawdown wouldn't even come close to bringing the market valuation down to the historical average line. It could go down much further than that. * A 50% market drawdown will be a killer for anyone who just went all-in lump sum any time semi-recently. A 50% market drawdown is definitely plausible when the market is this over-valued. And with so many more degenerates crowding into call options, leveraged ETFS, meme bubble stocks (crypto, NVDA, TSLA, PLTR), and going in big on every single dip/rip more than ever, that 25-50% market drawdown will be more like a 90%+ drawdown for most degenerates in reality. * You say that so many people are waiting for a crash as a buying opportunity that it's going to immediately be over-purchased and money will get pumped. But then in a follow-up comment you offer up evidence that too many people have already piled in already (Retail going from 10% of total equities trading volume in 2010 to approximately 25% by 2021, with recent estimates at 30% and 37% of daily trading volume). * Faulty logic: "We'll continue toward the moon because we have no where else to go." Here's where else we could possibly go: DOWN. * Famous last words: "And I fully believe we can't even crash anymore."

reichjef

Instead of just selling puts, you could try to wheel. Take some leveraged product where the IV is naturally higher like the TQQQ, or the UPRO. Buy the underlying, and start selling the calls a percentage above your current price you’re comfortable being called away at. Then, just work the weekly’s and collect premiums. And if you get a call away, just rebuy the next Monday at the best price you can get, and start the wheel up again. It’s a decent way to juice gains. So Monday, if the TQQQ begins at 106, buy it and look to sell the call at strike 116 or so at the same ratio of [100 shares:1 contract]. If you go two weeks out, Nov 28, you can probably sell the 116 for about $120 per. So if buy a 100 for $10,600 you can sell the 116 for $120 and get that money immediately. Your breakeven is now at 104.8 on the underlying and your max profit is 1000+the initial of $120 for a max finish of $1120. If it settles above 104.8 but below 116, you can let the call expire, and sell another one further out as you will keep the shares, and you’re still profitable. If it finishes below 104.8, you will take a loss, but, you will also keep the shares.

thesecondmarshmellow

Scenario 1 Of my invested amount, I hold about 30% to 40% in a triple levered etf vs my preferred index. So let’s say I start with a $100,000 account, with $40,000 in UPRO, and I’m benchmarking performance against VOO/SPY. If I make a $1,000 deposit, I buy $400 UPRO, and leave $600 cash. My overall performance most of the time matches the market, but I’m 60% cash. When the market goes down by more than 20%, I use all my cash to buy the index fund, VOO or SPY. This strategy outperformed by wide margins over the last decade, with zero risk of margin call, and the downside being that triple levered etfs will perform terribly if we see a decade with more down days than up days. Scenario 2 I have $1,000,000 in a portfolio margin account to start. I put it all in VOO. When the market goes down 10%, I use a box spread to buy $90,000 worth of VOO. When the market goes down 20%, I use a box spread to buy $80,000 worth of VOO. So on and so forth down to 50%, at which point my debt to equity ratio will be 70%. When the market returns to its starting point I sell all of the shares bought with borrowed money. So long as the market does not do a 1929 style crash and the time it takes to return to start is such that I surpass the rate to borrow in my box spreads (which for much of the last decade was less than 1%), I outperform the market. Both of these strategies answer your question and outperformed the market over the last decade, however I’d caution everyone that in the event that AI does not deliver on it’s promises and the non-AI economy continues to stagnate, the next decade will not be as rosy for investors as the last.

Waygzh

Bro I've got $500k in UPRO and TQQQ lol

alwayslucky7

A mix of TQQQ, SOXL, USD, UPRO, UDOW (10-20) And the rest in SPY, VOO, QQQ, QQQM, and maybe throw some into the leveraged google etf GOOX - i believe its called

k0unitX

You don't need options income, you need (at least some) leverage. SSO, UPRO, QLD, QQUP, BTGD, BEGS etc

circadiggmigration

You're using an enormous amount of leverage. Yes, maybe the nasdaq 100 will gap down tomorrow. That's entirely possible. But you have so much leverage that one of many things can go wrong even if you're right about the direction of the market*. You can get margin called. You are speculating on the underlying value of a highly leveraged stock. That means the IV is high. If it doesn't go your direction right away, you will be on the hook for IV crush. You paid a premium for the privilege. You could have made the same trade, with less risk and fees by just buying UPRO or buying options on QQQ. The more leverage and the more fees you pay, the more things have to go in your favor to not lose money.

darkslide3000

If you bought and hold UPRO for those five years you'd be at close to 300k now. F'king casual.

PassionCompassion

You're going to have a hard time quitting unless you strictly make ways to never touch options. You will have those urges to 'get rich quick' again, especially after seeing you lost more than $70k. The wisest shit to do right now is just throw your remaining money into investing in SPY or UPRO (2x leverage of SPY for more profiting, but if you can handle holding through market crashes). Or TQQQ (3x leverage of QQQ, but again, you must be willing to hold through market crashes and not panic sell). Keep working and funneling money into investing in those ETFs I've mentioned. You can do small-cap stocks as well, but you have to really make sure those will be valuable in the future. Eventually, you will get back your $70k. You're 25 so you have a long life ahead. There are those who are like 40-50 years old, yet gambled away their money. There are those who are 60-70 years old, yet still working. There are those who are 80 years old, yet heavily relies on different kinds of funding to get by each day.

AlternativeSignal908

Not to diminish the amazing result (28% annual returns), but for those of us investing in SPXL, UPRO, SSO, etc. today, I think it is worth noting that this success was largely due to investing when the levered ETF had crashed 70-80%. That's the time to go all. Otherwise, it's best to build a portfolio like 40% UPRO, 30% ZROZ, 30% GLDM and target returns that beat the S&P by just a couple percent annualized. Would be interested in OP and others' perspective, but the huge cajones was going all in on massive leverage when everyone though the world was ending. Having cajones today and thinking the result (without a hedged portfolio) will be the same in a decade or two is probably wrong. Wait for the crash and go hedged until then. Even then, worth noting OP suffered a 76% drawdown on a $930k balance in early 2020. He'd made enough from 2010 to 2020 in the levered position to still be ahead vs just having invested in SPY or VOO, but tough to watch $700k evaporate in a month. [https://testfol.io/?s=52fT0SdC39B](https://testfol.io/?s=52fT0SdC39B)

cheapdvds

I have maybe 30% on UPRO, been holding since even before covid happened. Will keep holding for the next 20 years, will trim some, if it ever to get to 100k, 150k and then 200k.

alwayslucky7

I bought a grand worth tqqq in 2016 for $4.72 avg a share and slowly added more- my total investment was $3760 ($5 a week) I sold it last week at $113 a share (389.7 shares) for a total of $44k The paperwork on the sale said the average that I made was 38.9 % a year for those ten years (the highest year being a gain of 91.4%, the lowest at 19.7%) When i bought it back then, people were warning me about the risks involved and truthfully I wish I didn't listen to them, i'd be fully retired and not just partially. My plan was to wait till the market lets a little air out of the ballon and rebuy in and basically hold for another ten years; if it sticks to its 30%+ average per year- i'll have the 600k I need to fully retire. Granted I have other stocks, but the amount of time and effort and stress that goes into all that truthfully isn't worth it for me- at least anymore. It used to be really fun. My leveraged nvidia of course has done well, and leveraged apple, google and tesla too- but I also have some major losses that brings my ten year average to 17.2%. By my math, if i did the reverse- mostly into TQQQ, UDOW, UPRO, SSO, GLD, TECL, SOXL, SHM, ect and the minority amount into leveraged blue chips- my net worth would've been about 200k higher. So my advice would be to start the way I did- and only use about 10% of your portfolio on letfs like this & if the chip and ai bubble continue to inflate then start adding 10% per year for those ten years. If you start at $1000 and max out your IRA (583 a month). If Tqqq sticks to its ten year average (42.3%) then you'll have close to 600k after 10 years. 3.5 million after 15 years and well over 20 million dollars after 20 years. Good luck gangster

zxc123zxc123

Nice. Highly regarded. *Nods in approval as a fellow UPRO degen* I sold out of my UPRO like a bitch in 2024. Luckily I just shifted to VOO/SSO while riding my UWM/TNA. Been selling UPRO puts but they never exercise. Do you plan on ever deleveraging?

Waygzh

Every time you highly regarded folk post about losses I buy more UPRO. https://i.imgur.com/snYPKem.png

SmokedGouda1234

You need a share as a cost basis like 100. Much less risk you can also buy into UPRO. When it keeps dropping, sell and then buy in at the lowest of lows and ride the wave back up. Only problem with tqqq is if the tech sector collapses like it did in 2000 but dips like april, 2022, and covid proved to be quite lucrative

arc_tracker123

I full ported into UPRO

DesignerSea494

If it were me, I’d just park it in UPRO and check back in 20 years.

AlwaysSilencedTruth

nah you need to max out any loan anyone is willing to give you, put it all into UPRO 0DTE out of the money options every Friday until you die

Then_North_6347

SPLG for low risk or UPRO for higher risk.

manofjacks

SPY would be the option ticker you'd want to trade options. Remember playing with options is also understanding the built in premium in the options. The markets can still go up yet the option alreadt has an implied movement built into its price that the markets are going up. You can always play with leverage etfs's like TQQQ or UPRO to get 3x SPY/QQQ

Then_North_6347

UPRO 143 shares

lledyl

Fn UPRO

lledyl

UPRO you cheating whore. I’m not taking you back maybe if you dip again.

MuchPaint6239

UPRO

arc_tracker123

Holding UPRO

Consistent_Panda5891

5x is really bad. I mean a small drop can make you loose everything, UPRO is the best. 4x leverage can have less return than 3x and so 5x will have less return in a long period.

DesignerSea494

Not sure where I said I was doing that, but ok. I run a barbell strategy involving UPRO balanced with hedges in gold, energy, health care, treasuries, and defense. With a modest allocation in speculative high-conviction stocks.

RealHornblower

"Buy the dip" is not wrong, but at least wait for a real dip. \~5% moves happen all the time for little or no reason and are not worth changing your allocation over. I've been mostly SPY, but shifted to more UPRO (3X SPY) during the April drop. Sold a bit too early, but still in SPY so not missing out on the uptrend. If we drop 15-20% I'll move a bit more back into UPRO. This is far from perfect but I'm not going to lever up based on the market being 5% below all time highs, at least give me a double digit decline first.

SpecialAd7075

Bought UPRO calls at close...

DesignerSea494

If you’re under 40: 50% UPRO, 20% GLD, 20% KMLM, 10% VIXY. Do that and chill.

jaavaa

Does gonna get fuckin roasted. I just bought in UPRO again. $350k. We're going to the moon.

CWB2208

Bought UPRO calls because I'm not a little bitch

MBlaizze

I am doing a slow taper out of the melt-up. On up days, I snip tiny profits. If there is a significant pullback, I buy in. If there is a MAJOR bear market pullback, I will buy UPRO and TQQQ with a portion of the dry powder

AICHEngineer

Ive only been levering the index up to make space in the port since April 2024. These are not statically held positions, they are rebalanced quarterly to maintain a target allocation. The main things im using are UPRO (3x SPY). The shares from that day are +88.7%, but have been rebalanced out of and into depending on what happened that quarter, like rebalancing out of UPRO on the ride up to early 2025, and rebalancing into it in april during the liberation crash. I use return stacked diversifiers to add in managed futures, gold, and bond exposure while maintaining at a minimum 100% equity exposure, but that equity exposure is higher at the moment because market conditions have favored it, particularly with low volatility being conducive to LETF performance. The sexiest are my smaller quantity of shares in UPRO bought April-10-2025 for for $58.16 are up 96.2%. Even funnier and completely contrary to your narrative (maybe youre a Plain Bagel viewer?) is 96 shares purchased on March-10th-2025 at a cost basis of $74.98 per share that are now up 52.19%, *despite* being bought literally at the worst time you could before the liberation day crash and eating a -37% drawdown in a high vol environment. Despite this, we are still up 53.3% vs SPY which did +20.9% in the same time, which is obviously and expectedly worse than 3x the notional over the period particularly because of high high volatility in april followed by low low volatility past that which is making up the difference.

Fun-Sundae4060

Most LETF strategies do come from HFEA, and you’re right that that strategy was crushed in 2022. Most new strategies now incorporate gold to help diversify more, some like mine incorporate managed futures. I actually add in BTC and ETH into the mix as well on the side of the leveraged equities taking away allocation from TQQQ or UPRO, they actually seem to reduce the volatility of the strategy significantly as well since it’s nonleveraged. But of course it’s pretty controversial here since people don’t like crypto. I find it as another diversifying tool with high expected returns right along equities and gold. With 200SMA it’s not exactly about the price action, but specifically targeting periods of bull markets and low volatility above the line. Below the line, market volatility is elevated and price action just simply isn’t as favorable. High volatility introduces higher drag on LETFs as well.

TrueCommunication440

The only cost associated with a leveraged ETF is the listed fee. Sure there can be volatility decay (or momentum upside) but that's different. Want to make your case that interest rates actually matter then it seems like you'd need a chart comparing fees (say for SSO, UPRO, SPXL, etc) and interest rates over a number of years.

weasler7

Kind of curious. What is the basis behind KMLM and ZROZ? FWIW, I tried a 1/3 TQQQ, 1/3 UPRO, 1/6 TLT, 1/6 BTAL leveraged ETF portfolio in my HSA and didn't see the same results as the backtest. Maybe I was really bad at executing, didn't sell in 2022, but chose to deleverage early this year. Don't regret doing that b/c I sleep better.

TrueCommunication440

Do you have any resource that shows the management fee of UPRO / SSO / SPXL / etc over time - something that would show if interest rates actually make an impact?

chris_ut

Just holding leverages products forever is a recipe for disaster. There are a lot of systems that try to avoid the massive drawdowns. I have my “passive” money 50% SPY and 50% UPRO for 1.5x leverage. I follow the 200 sma strategy so if SPY falls under the 200 sma I move the upro money into SPY to mitigate any massive drawdowns then when it returns over the 200 SMA I move back to UPRO

GemSeekr

Sell 95% and put the profits in UPRO

HedgeMoney

If you really were betting, you'd buy UPRO calls instead.

DesignerSea494

1000 shares, LFG. Ready to roll that shit right into UPRO on a 25% market slide.

No-Consequence-8768

You start out- 20yrs old, want to be courageous, want Growth, want risk(not afraid), etc.... I thought you were gonna say stuff like TECL, UPRO MSTY, FNGU etc.... Global stocks are aggressive>?

DesignerSea494

I’ve for 25k profit to allocate tomorrow. I can’t decide. Full-UPRO on the dip, more hedging in boomer shit, or just meme and pray.

DesignerSea494

Fuck me, I bought into UPRO below $60 and rode that wave to Valhalla. The prez on the tarmac said, “buy now and get fucking rich” so I did, even tho I can’t stand the bastard. Well, that was one dog whistle which paid off.

NUSWannabeSWE

When was the last time we had a -1% day At this rate I’ll buy UPRO on margin

SnackyMcGeeeeeeeee

Yah, been doing this with UPRO and AAPU past few months, kinda goated strategy from my experience.

Visible-Mastodon-277

Sold some TQQQ/UPRO. too much risk

AICHEngineer

Take on some leverage and hedge the drawdowns using alternate diversifiers. UPRO, GDE, RSST, GOVZ, plus something international.

Financial_Form_1312

If you want to be super aggressive, buy TQQQ and UPRO exclusively from now until you’re 30-35, then start diversifying.

PanhandleChuck1

Say no to UPRO

Then_North_6347

Sell and buy SPLG or UPRO.

musicandarts

Typically, the breakeven happens about 8% below. So, your estimate is correct. I have a much larger position on 3x leveraged S&P (UPRO). I will hold it at least until the mid term elections.

DesignerSea494

I threw 500k into UPRO recently. I was so happy about my decision, then I saw all the regards getting rich overnight on OPEN. Am I a Boomer now?

Apprehensive-Mix4473

I threw 500k into UPRO recently. I was so happy about my decision, then I saw all the regards getting rich overnight on OPEN. Am I a Boomer now?

DesignerSea494

I’m not full-porting UPRO, it’s just a sizable position.

DesignerSea494

Fuck this. I’m down 200k in a month on speculation. I’m moving 500k into UPRO in the morning. The administration wants the broad market to rise, at any cost.

Fun-Sundae4060

TQQQ and QLD UPRO and SSO ZROZ, EDV GLD and lower ER variants CTA, KMLM, and DBMF

NoFootball6808

I started investing in TQQQ and UPRO about 3 years ago. Recently sold most of TQQQ and moved that money to QQQ. What I realized is that, those leveraged ETFs are good when index already bitten down 10-15-20% vs investing at ATH. Whenever market going down, these levergaed ETF would lose alot more. Not sure I am explaining it correctly but TQQQ and QQQ doesn't go proportionally in long term.

AICHEngineer

In one day isnt even the problem. There are bona fide simulations of LETFs out there including all the costs and daily rebalance. In the GFC you drop from peak to trough -95.6% using UPRO in nominal terms. It takes over two years for it to happen. All the while youre dropping and dropping. At the lowest point, it takes 23.4x returns to recover from that drawdown, not including inflation. Many such cases.

Iunatic

90% SPY / 10% UPRO would outperform most people here on autopilot.

AlternativeSignal908

Check out this book. It was written in 2010 and is backed by academic research. The main point is that leverage when you're young may be appropriate and may actually reduce risk since it provides more diversification across time. # Lifecycle Investing: A New, Safe, and Audacious Way to Improve the Performance of Your Retirement Portfolio Ian Ayres and Barry Nalebuff In my experience, nakedly investing in leveraged index ETFs works until it doesn't. That is, you can have tremendous gains, but then give them all back. You need to have some portion of the portfolio that is a hedge and rebalance a couple times a year. Hedges are long treasuries (ZROZ), gold (GLDM) and potentially managed futures (CTA). Play around with different mixes on testfol.io. Really look closely at the 1970s or 2007/8 and consider your total leverage (amount of UPRO or SPUU) in the mix. It isn't going to be hard to run a leveraged portfolio in times like today. But imagine things going down and staying down for five years or longer. That will happen. It's guaranteed over your investing lifespan. Multiple times. Whatever portfolio you run, you need to believe in it strongly enough by doing the work so that you stick with it when the shit hits the fan. Which it will.

Fun-Sundae4060

Diversified LETFs are for long term holding. Single stock LETFs are for swing trading and shorter term plays. www.testfol.io Check returns versus regular ETFs on SSO, QLD, UPRO against stuff like SPY and QQQ. Bull runs far outpace the volatility decay and sideways losses.

No-Consequence-8768

Not sure why people would be 'Margined called'.? Very few people borrow on their equities. Thats Stupid! If people went 100% on TQQQ/UPRO etc... there is NO margin call.

UncouthMarvin

You'll understand next time UPRO does -75%

jaavaa

Basically the normie version of that, I'm jacking myself to the tits on VOO and UPRO

UncouthMarvin

55/45 UPRO TMF and chill

DitmCalls

Look at the premiums on leveraged ETFs, such as UPRO or TQQQ, substantially lower than SPY and similar behavior. You can buy several contracts for the price of one SPY contract.

jnas_19

The markets ability to climb every wall of worry is incredible, gives me that UPRO itch. Compare that to your average BOFA savings account APY of 0.01% or Treasuries losing money 24/7 and it really hits you.

jnas_19

100% UPRO?

bm211201

TQQQ/SQQQ SPXL/SPXS UPRO/SPXU. Sometimes 2x leveraged individual stock ETFs

Historical-Cost1444

Are UPRO options liquid enough to trade?

JoeBideyBop

I am 35 and know how you feel. I’d like to address you where you are and the interest in risk that you have. Anyone who comes here asking questions like this about options isn’t ready to trade them. If you were a baseball manager would you start a player who is asking you the rules of the game and hour before the first pitch? I doubt it. Yes, it is all very interesting and some people do have the time and money to make it worth their while. You don’t have that, and that’s ok. As others point out you’re hearing selection bias because we tend to give the big winners a lot of upvotes. It gives everyone else hope. The problem with options is you could select the right company at the wrong time and lose a lot of money. My cousin bought PLTR options when the company was trading around $30 a share but it was the wrong time. Those contracts expired before he the company matured and he lost all of that money. He did have shares as well but the options strategies were really heavy and have significantly carved out his returns. On the other side of the coin we had a prospective client who just held Apple stock for 40 years. No options. They were asking us about building a new house with the stock sale. If you’re interested in some leveraged exposure I don’t blame you. A lot of people are. That’s why 3x leveraged index funds exist like UPRO. Let a professional manage these complex leverage strategies for you and then you can have more time to focus on rebuilding your life + professional development. That’s my standard advice to anyone who asks about a risky strategy and you are no exception. We’re in a very similar financial position so I’m not saying this from a place of relative wealth like some others in the thread are.

Djov

Honestly has worked out pretty well for me. I have decent sized positions in UPRO and SSO that I've just let run for years (which is advised by almost nobody, including the products themselves lol) but my UPRO position is up like 100% in a time frame where VOO is up around 35ish so I can't complain. I'm sure I'll get humbled someday by UPRO, less so by SSO but it's survived COVID, the inflation concerns after, and the tarriff shitshow just fine so im just letting it run

weasler7

I tried a 3x leveraged portfolio with UPRO, TQQQ, and both TMF and BTAL as hedges based on several popular back tests. TMF got destroyed in 2022 as long duration bonds got fucked as the fed was raising rates. It never functioned well enough as a hedge (and I don’t think will in the future either). BTAL actually worked well. Glad it was in the portfolio. Backtests were skewed due to long periods of slow grind up post GFC. In fact, it’s the same period when the short vol trade (XIV) was very popular. I think it could work, but you have to have immense risk tolerance. I did not- deleveraged in Jan/Feb and just went into non leveraged indexes.

Good_Ride_2508

Both are not good for investing (buy,dca and hold) for long term due to volatility drag/decay and contango [https://www.reddit.com/r/TQQQ/comments/vnhoin/how\_does\_volatility\_drag\_apply\_to\_tqqq/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TQQQ/comments/vnhoin/how_does_volatility_drag_apply_to_tqqq/) They are only good for trading and short term play, but timing must be correct. You can day trade or swing trade with such 3x etfs. The 3x etfs like TQQQ or UPRO won't dissolve as they follow indexes, but every recession funds dissolve 3x ETFs at an inopportune time. Ai search gives: 3x leveraged ETFs face a high closure rate due to inherent risks like volatility drag and potential mandatory redemptions. The regulatory environment is also becoming more restrictive, further impacting the viability of these products. Therefore, investors should exercise extreme caution when considering 3x ETFs and are generally advised against using them for long-term investing.