CGT

Kie_ra

Sell all the garbage and use the loss to offset the CGT

Froz3n_Cornchip

Not sure where you’re from but yeah you pay CGT but that still doesn’t eat all your profit. Otherwise no one would invest in anything. You’re not wrong about timing and holding though.

Kie_ra

How do you deal with tax? Surely this can't work? if I touched my stack, I'd be paying CGT so massive that it makes absolutely no sense to even attempt this, not to mention the risk of timing it wrong Still convinced just holding is better 

Unusual-Piece-93

OP is clueless. Thinks he’s walking away with 26% profit later this year. By his calculations dollar will have lost 10% during the year. He’s still needs to pay CGT and exchange fees. I couldn’t be bothered doing calculations, but maybe he is $2000 up if his predictions come true and he sells this year. Good chance he gets it wrong and sells for a loss or waits much longer. Like others have said, if you need money back this year, don’t buy.

Short-Shopping3197

About 50% in a world index tracker ETF, 25% split between gold and Bitcoin, and 25% in a zero-risk national bond scheme as my emergency fund. In the UK the ETF, gold and bonds are all tax free, I’ll start drawing the BTC out from age 50 at my annual tax free CGT allowance.

Resident-Quality1513

You can cash in £3000 and not pay CGT (and not have to think about how much your gain is!) every year. As soon as your accumulated BTC starts putting on more than £3k/year that's the end. You have a passive income of £3k/year. Thanks very much HMRC. I would rather it was a bit more than that, but that's where we are.

GuildfordAI

Don't mess around and just use something like Summ to calculate the taxes due as it gets really complicated (for example making a BTC->BTC transfer between your wallets is not a taxable event, but the MINING FEE you pay may be subject to CGT if you held it for a long time). It obviously gets even more complicated if you're using an exchange that uses USD/EUR or other forex as that's another CGT start/end event to determine when withdrawing. Feel free to use my ref code so we both earn some dosh, [https://summ.com/?via=b0haquqv](https://summ.com/?via=b0haquqv) or just go to their site directly if you don't want the referral [https://summ.com](https://summ.com) I haven't tried the other tax systems but heard Koinly is good too.

dave5526

There is some bad advice on this thread. Capital Gains applies to investing, not trading. Trading falls under income tax. If you are buying and selling tokens over short periods for profit, and try to claim these are investments and only subject to CGT, HMRC will take a dim view of that if they ever look at it. How likely they are to pay attention is difficult to say, but with increased use of AI by HMRC to analyse submissions, I would not want to risk it. Also - it's almost certainly not worth it. Very few people manage to day trade successfully. Almost all who try would have been better off (financially and mentally) just investing that money in an Index fund, gold, BTC etc over a long period.

crunchyeyeball

That's not really how it works, at least not in the UK. Any sale of bitcoin counts as a *disposal*, and may be subject to CGT if the capital gain exceeds £3K: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-if-you-need-to-pay-tax-when-you-sell-cryptoassets#when-you-need-to-pay

crunchyeyeball

Depends on the total gain. In the UK, the first £3,000 of gains are tax-free. Any gains above that are subject to CGT (Capital Gains Tax). Only exceptions are ETNs held within an ISA.

-5H4Z4M-

This doesn't work in UK. Selling crypto into fiat triggers a Capital Gains Tax (CGT).

Any_Ice1084

unless youre running it like a business HMRC usually treats trading as CGT. staking and rewards are income tho, thats where ppl get tripped up

Big-Finding2976

Airdrops aren't necessarily subject to income tax. Stuff you receive in exchange for doing something, like staking or lending your assets, is treated as income but if you receive an unearned airdrop you can record it as a gift with a 0 cost basis and then just pay CGT on any gains when you sell it.

Threemonkeys123

Centralisation has already occurred in some ways (regulations, CRAF, CGT) but if you don’t sell you don’t lose. I plan on waiting until it will fund my retirement goals (20 years+ yet) and then I’ll cash it all out and emigrate to a tax haven, while I’m at it I’ll mace all my CC’s too! Hehe

parkway_parkway

From your comments is this what happened? You buy some coins for say 10k. They rise to 68k in the 24/25 year and then you swap those coins for some dog coin creating a CGT event. That means you have gains of 58k and a bill of 18% of that (if you're a lower rate tax payer). Then the dog coin crashes in value to 10k and you sell it in the 25/26 year creating a 58k loss for that year? Is that basically what happened? You definitely did a trade in 24/25 that realised the gain? As unfortunately I don't think you can carry the loss back. One option is to write a letter to HMRC and explain what happened and explain that the money is lost and you want to offset the loss backwards. They are most likely to say no, but the potential of saving 10k is worth it. You can carry the 58k loss forwards with you and offset it against future gains which is at least something.

Reception_Available

same shit, i still have to pay even with that shit low CGT of 3000 .

Amber_Sam

I don't have to pay CGT from bitcoin, yet still prefer to buy bitcoin without KYC.

Leithm

Did this happen before or after October the 30th 2024 which was budget day. Doesn't normally matter but they changed the CGT rate. Also you rate will depend on whether you are a higher or basic rate tax payer. If you are a basicc rate taxpayer and it was before October the 20th your CCGT rate might only be 10%.

FatFettle

So you can't carry back capital losses, meaning this year's position is moot. One method I know of to negate (by deferring it) a previous CGT liability is to use an Enterprise investment scheme (EIS), but that's something of an esoteric investment Effectively you invest the tax bill instead of paying the tax man, however if you ever sell the investment the gain is then realised in that tax year (with the option to defer it again). Obviously this isn't advice and may be totally unsuitable for you.

Reception_Available

Yes, 10.500 with that CGT 3000 already excluded.

FatFettle

That's subject to CGT, not income tax mate. I'm probably being a bit pedantic but it's important to be specific in tax matters. I take it your gains exceeded £3k for the tax year in question?

FatFettle

How did you create an income tax liability? I'm assuming you were staking cryptocurrencies. Losses will presumably be capital losses, subject to CGT so different tax treatment.

ObligationSea2667

late to this - but this achieves nothing if you either sell or swap another coin to tether in < 12 months and hold tether for 12 months. The second you swap to tether or sell whatever crypto you sold -> immediately taxable and no 50% CGT discount can be applied

Threemonkeys123

I wasn’t aware this could be done except through a mixing service (which carries its own risks - flagged up by exchanges, chance of loss, being classed as disposal triggering CGT etc) If anyone knows how to combine the UTXOs please let me know 🙏

Hit4Help

And even if you establish residency elsewhere you may still be liable for the CGT on the assets held while aquired in the home country. For example I couldn't leave the UK and go to tax haven to cash out any currently held funds. The UK would still wants it cut of 18%

alexkey

You do trigger a cgt event even in us, but if you sell your USDC for USD and to US bank account, the tax on that would be 0 since no gains. FYI Australia uses AUD, not USD, and exchange rate to USD is not fixed, so you do trigger CGT event and it will be either gain or loss depending on where the exchange rate goes. And any legitimate exchange reports transactions to ATO if you link it to AU bank account (or otherwise mark Australia as your place of residence).

alexkey

USDC has no special status. It is a cryptocurrency and therefore its disposal (changing to fiat) is a CGT event. You can easily google that yourself on ATO website.

Unusual-Piece-93

Re-read the ops question. They have just started buying bitcoin (newbie). Good idea to mine? **No** Better to just buy bitcoin with the money? **Yes** I was a newbie when I bought the miners 6 months ago, I am still learning. Whilst tax can make the equation better by claiming costs with KYC, CGT becomes worse (no discount for 12+ months held on mined BTC, at least in Aust). If you’re not KYC, you can’t claim electricity and machine depreciation against the cost of the BTC mined. CGT cost base would be zero if you ever try to sell for fiat on a KYC exchange. **The OPs question was surely about most cost effective**. In 4 months, my rewards reduced by 23% and getting sats that the miners cost back looked unlikely. Add to that the electricity cost and I would be well underwater. Rewards advertised are NOT guaranteed, they are more likely to go down every month. So I sold the miners and will DCA what I would have paid in Electricity. I was mining on a hosted platform to a mining pool and therefore not running a node. An efficient miner requires 3 phase power which most people don’t have at home. Consider repair costs and downtime not hashing. Look at the global hashrate always going up, rewards going down; except in a dip when mining for fiat becomes unprofitable as it’s cheaper to buy the sats on an exchange. Cost of miners has also gone down with BTC price, meaning I lost money on the miners. Once the halving happens, there will be more efficient ASICs available so the ones you bought now will be scrap metal in 28 months. Not profitable to mine with and cannot be used for anything more than an ugly door stop. If you want more sats, buy on exchange. If still interested in mining and securing the network, buy a lottery miner and run a node. IMO, the only way you make money from mining is if BTC hits new ATH, but you would still likely have more sats if you had spent the miner cost and electricity costs buying sats on exchange. Just my 2c worth from my experience.

Amber_Sam

>With BTC spending having to pay capital gains taxes, I'd hate to be your tax advisor. Who said I have to pay CGT? There are exceptions, countries with zero CGT out there. >Not to mention, every exchange operated in the US... It might surprise you but about **95% of the global population is living outside of the US**.

Rude_Adeptness_8772

CGT :(

crunchyeyeball

This is really something you need to talk to an accountant or the tax adviser about. I'm assuming you're just looking at CGT (Capital Gains Tax). The price in 2012/13 varied a lot, from ~£4 to ~£800, but in any case it would have been a tiny fraction of it's current value. As I understand it, if you can't (or prefer not to) provide proof of purchase, you could either just *estimate* its value when you received it based on the date & historic price data (& hope HMRC accepts that), or just use a *zero* cost basis. If you use a zero cost basis instead of the accurate price, you'll pay a little more tax, but the difference will be dwarfed by the gain (& therefore the CGT) anyway.

Professional-Bend-69

Do you think zero CGT is realistically where we’re headed?

Fancy-Snow7

In my country it's even more complicated. We are either taxed at CGT rates (17% of gains) or your marginal tax rate (up to 45%) depending on how long you held their bitcoin (3+ years for CGT normally). Keeping track of how long you hold each bitcoin if you buy monthly is a nightmare.

uniqueheadshape

We should be using Bitcoin as payment. Otherwise Bitcoin loses. Stack for savings. Stack for spending on Lightning. Keep a simple spreadsheet if your country sucks ass around CGT.

jandaba7

It's not theft but it is terrible tax policy, CGT on retail investment (crypto or otherwise) makes the country and everyone in it poorer.

Elendron

Reeling?! I'm over the flipping moon that Reeves didn't raise CGT again. I struggled to drop off the night before. I watched the whole budget with a thumping heart. As soon as the tax reform section was over I knew we were good. I was and still am so relieved. Bring on the the gains baby <3

VeryThicknLong

CGT has been pretty flexible over the course of my lifetime.

Kenbarlow78

This. CGT in Ireland is 33%. Not worth the stress. I’m just gonna keep accumulating till Btc gets to 1mil, nd then I’m done. All profit goin to my ETFs after that/im gonna go sit on a beach in Portugal for the rest of my life 🍹🏖️

slvbtc

Capital gains tax should be illegal. Most of an assets gain is just a function of the devaluation of the currency meaning CGT is taking something from you just for owning it when there was zero net gain. Do they subtract the inflation rate from your appreciation rate before taxing you? Nope. CGT is the most vile tax in existence.

justincharles78

Agreed but it depends on how confident you are to time the market. Take 20% loss straight away on your profits due to CGT. Now you need a bigger move to make that back.

The-maulted-One

Don’t forget your CGT, that should account for about 30% of it. Nice trades but if you buy back in all your doing is lowering your cost of entry.

Interesting_Loss_907

Only short v long term (> 1 year), and also based on income, but still, your point is correct. We pay 20% CGT on *long* term gains to the federal gov’t, then on top of that 20% most states charge CGT also. So where I live, I have to pay 30% capital gains tax *even if I held the asset long term*. And that’s after I paid > 40% in taxes on my income (fed+state+ss). It’s sickening.

cooltone

UK: It is and is subject to CGT rules.

ChrisWitcherOfWealth

hmmm Soooo The merchant deals with the CGT instead? Rather than the user? The user still has to hold usd?

ArugulaPotential366

Totally agree. I went down a whole borrow against rabbit whole and got a severe headache. Just sell what you need either monthly, quarterly, or annually and pay the damn CGT

lechuckswrinklybutt

That is not how CGT works. If you sell 10k worth of BTC in a place where CGT is 30%, you wouldn’t pay 3k in taxes (unless your cost basis was close to zero, which is unlikely). It’s in the name. You only pay tax on the gains. To keep it simple, let’s say you put 5k into BTC all at once, the price of BTC doubles, and then you sold it all in one go. Your gains are 5k so you pay 30% of that.

Threemonkeys123

Build as big a stack as possible, retire, draw any private pensions, max out all cards/loans, cash the bitcoin in and skip the country for a tax haven like Bulgaria or Czech and dodge the CGT 👍 That is, if you have a big enough stack by retirement, otherwise only draw £3000 per year (to avoid CGT) to supplement any other income. Thats my plan 👌

Amber_Sam

Buy bitcoin the same day, no gains, no CGT.

Kie_ra

Let's say hypothetically it reaches 10m. Why not take out BTC backed loan of say $1m Use some of the $1m to make repayments, use the rest for whatever floats your boat.  Take out another loan. Repay the previous loan.  Rinse and repeat.  Surely paying measly 9% interest on BTC loans beats paying massive CGT on sale. 

HedgehogGlad9505

I wonder why there's no wallet that automatically calculate CGT? Technically it's easy, you input your cost when loading the wallet, and every time you spend, it fetches real time price and do simple math. Or does CGT in US doesn't work that way?

crunchyeyeball

Diversification is fine. Diversification into the 26+ million "alts" is just gambling. The bulk of my savings are BTC, but I do hold some stocks, bonds, & gold, especially where there are tax benefits. If I find myself in need of quick cash, I don't want to be forced to sell bitcoin at a bad time, and possibly incur a large CGT bill.

Icy-Soup-7071

IMO Bitcoin isn't an ideal currency... A certain amount of inflation is necessary just from a distribution standard... Bitcoin is Hyper-deflationary because it can be lost and never recovered. This cripples a debt based society... You would have to move to a completely debt free society but then progress is massively stifled as you need to save in order to grow... Which ethically makes sense. Bitcoin is more of a symbol/representation for sounder money. I've always stood on the thought of equivalising CGT/Dividends and Trust taxes in-line with income taxes (I'm from the UK so my ideas are largely biased towards solutions for our tax system) if not extremely high above certain numbers and possibly even a wealth tax. COMBINED WITH. Radical idea but a currency burn to stabilize inflation. I mean a LITERAL BURN. Take the money off the 1% and literally burn it, its the only way a high tax on the top 1% wont result in consumer purchasing power decreasing. Ultimately any attempt to equivalise wealth and income distribution just leads to the working and middle class suffering... Unless you simultaneously improve their purchasing power. Stable currency whilst the rest of the world continues to inflate results in more foreign investment and cheaper consumer supply and trade. Its not fully thought out yet and I'm still playing with the thought perspective would love some discourse on this.

Kupo_Master

That’s exactly the point. Untraceable bitcoin will not be accepted by “licensed” exchanges. Remember the law will require you to declare all your bitcoin holdings; any undeclared holding will be automatically not easy to trade. Your untraceable will be converted into fiat but it will be illegitimate funds. Exactly the same as people who hold money off shore without declaring to avoid CGT or other taxes.

Hit4Help

If they are doing that then they can't also charge CGT ontop if needed to sell coin to cover the 1%

crunchyeyeball

May be tricky to manage capital gains tax if you need to file a return, since any spending of BTC will count as a disposal for tax purposes. Most of us will have a personal tax free allowance of £3K, so any annual spend covering gains above that will need to be filed in a tax return. If you spend enough to cross that threshold, or if you file a tax return for another reason (e.g. self-employed), you'll need to keep track of and report all those transactions, and pay CGT on any gains over £3K. Could get messy.

Kie_ra

Stacking is smart, what you're suggesting is downright retarded. I suggest you learn about CGT, utilising loans, and some principles of FIRE. Good on you for not having kids - your first investment should be a vasectomy.

DalehubCrypto

I call it making profit with a 50% CGT discount.

ColtAzayaka

Maybe someone can correct and clarify if I’m missing something here, but I see no reason why you couldn’t use your BTC holdings as collateral to secure a loan. Depending on the terms of the loan it might be more convenient and/or cheaper than directly purchasing fiat currency with BTC and later paying more fees to repurchase the BTC. Selling BTC for fiat is likely also tax-inefficient due to CGT. A loan also mitigates repricing risk, which might be worth considering given BTC’s volatility, but unless you need the money for a significant length of time that probably doesn't matter too much. You’re right, though. A lot of people talk about the current value of their investments as if it were realised profit rather than an open position.

Swimming_Sign_888

Because you can borrow against it if you need cash. Plus you wont activate CGT by doing that. Go and read a few books about money before coming here with your fucked up questions

Aussiehash

Keep in mind that Governments are constantly trying to spend more and to tax more, the recent superannuation legislation being an example, and the treat of taxing unrealised capital gains. There is also discussion about changing stamp duty and abolishing negative gearing and the CGT discount.

cosmicchitony

For specific tax calculations in Australia, you should consult with a qualified accountant who specializes in cryptocurrency, as your personal income and the timing of sales will drastically impact your liability. There are accountants out there who will give free consultations if you ask. Anyways a common strategy is to sell portions in different financial years to utilize the 50% CGT discount and potentially avoid pushing yourself into a higher tax bracket.

PTRBRIG

Bloody hell - so we're taxed twice? CGT, then the remaining is added to income tax, thus possibly increasing our tax bracket? So tim guessing the play would be to: 1) Avoid full CGT by waiting 1 year + 2) Only sell an amount per year that would put you slightly below the next bracket to avoid additional income tax? Thanks

Last_Explanation9105

CGT differs from income taxes in the context of any capital losses you may have (which you can not offset the income tax). So, you subtract capital losses from CGT, then apply 50% discount. From the tax brackets perspective, income and capital gains are in the same bucket (after CGT discounts, the remaining gains are added to your taxable income and taxed based on your total income tax rate).

PTRBRIG

Thanks for the reply, so I'm a touch confused because you said it doesn't apply to income tax but then said sell slowly to stay in a lower bracket? Can you pls explain that again for me? So if i stop all my DCA for a year (to make the recent deposits 50% CGT) Then I should probably start to DCA out? Small withdrawals? How would you go about it? Excuse my ignorance haha Thanks for the insight.

Last_Explanation9105

For ATO, BTC is an asset, and CGT applies, not income tax. Each buy has its own 12-month clock for the 50% CGT discount. So, use FIFO and sell slowly to stay in a lower bracket. Keep all the records (ATO gets a copy of the exchange data). Starter options can include borrowing, using BTC as a collateral, using non-KYC, SMSF, immigration, etc.

Head-End-5909

In the US, any sell/swap resulting in profit is a taxable event. The profit has been realized whether or not it’s moved to your bank as fiat. On top of that, you have to report your crypto holdings on tax forms each year. Here’s what a 1 minute search on the Internet yielded about the UK: ———— No, in the UK, leaving the fiat proceeds from a cryptocurrency sale on an exchange does not prevent it from being a taxable event. According to HMRC rules, selling crypto for fiat currency (like GBP) constitutes a “disposal” and triggers Capital Gains Tax (CGT) on any profit at the point of the sale itself, regardless of whether you withdraw the funds to your bank account or leave them on the platform.   The gain is considered realized upon disposal, based on the fair market value at that moment minus your allowable costs (e.g., acquisition price plus fees), and it’s aggregated with other gains for the tax year. This aligns with broader HMRC guidance treating crypto as capital assets, where the tax liability arises from the transaction, not from cashing out to traditional banking. For the 2024-2025 tax year, you’d need to report this via Self Assessment if your total gains exceed the £3,000 CGT allowance, with rates at 18% for basic-rate taxpayers or 24% for higher/additional-rate ones (up from prior years due to 2024 budget changes). Keep detailed records of each trade, as exchanges’ reports alone aren’t sufficient for HMRC compliance. If the sale involves crypto-to-crypto trades (e.g., BTC to stablecoin before fiat), each step could be a separate disposal, compounding the tax events—something worth double-checking in your scenario.  If your activities resemble trading rather than investing, HMRC might reclassify profits as income taxable at up to 45%, but that’s assessed case-by-case based on frequency and intent.

fairyflossmagpie

Plus CGT.

OkSeries5363

I'm not saying they get doubled taxed? I was the one who originally informed OP of the DTA with Portugal. The fact that a complex legal treaty is required to prevent double taxation proves that both the US and Sweden have a legal claim to tax the same income. If the US didn't tax its citizens abroad, the treaty wouldn't be necessary! Think of like this, the US citizenship based tax is the full price on the item. The DTA is a coupon that might reduce what you owe at the register, sometimes even to zero. But you absolutely still have to go to the checkout counter and show them the coupon, file your taxes. You can't just walk out of the store because you have a coupon in your pocket.  This is critical for capital gains. If US citizen lives in Portugal. If Portugals tax on a specific capital gain is 0% the US coupon ie the foreign tax credit is worth $0. The citizen will then owe the full US capital gains tax to the IRS.  Not living in the US for 6 months doesn't mean your US taxes go away or the obligation report. The treaty prevents paying tax twice on the same dollar but it does not prevent the US from taxing a dollar that the other country chose not to. Just to be clear the only real escape from US tax obligations is to renounce or relinquish your citizenship. But don't think of it as a simple tax dodge, the US can hit you with a large expatriation tax on the way out. For CGT it forces a deemed disposal which means paying all your unrealised capital gains on your global investments.

normnormno

If I sold at 126 and bought back at 105 I'd have 28% CGT to pay on it. Don't see the point.

JamesTiberious

Too wishy washy - If I’m going to taxed CGT on actual bitcoin without any protections/at my own risk, then I expect to be protected for an ETN within an ISA.

quazatron48k

It’s called day trading and be careful you can cover any CGT you might be amassing.

Satoshiman256

ISA is no CGT

SpareDesigner1

Gold and silver are my BTC. I can’t get direct exposure to BTC ETFs in a UK ISA, and I don’t want to be paying CGT if I don’t have to.

crunchyeyeball

If you're in the UK, you might also be aware that in a few days we're finally getting access to something akin to the bitcoin ETFs, which ought to be available within a tax-advantaged wrapper like an ISA, bypassing CGT: https://moneyweek.com/investments/bitcoin-crypto/which-platforms-offer-crypto-etns Much as I generally prefer self-custody, the thought of holding some in a tax-exempt wrapper too is awfully appealing. Just something to consider.

DaVirus

The only thing that would help a bit is flipping your cold storage to SIPP to use the CGT allowance when you get close to retirement.

normnormno

How about because everyone has the chance to build wealth and escape the rat race when CGT is lower, not just the already wealthy. Better question; Why would you want to abolish something just because it benefits someone else more than you?

Qu1nt3n

I don't. I would be in favour of CGT if it meant a significantly lower tax on labour, but guess what.. ;)

Haagen76

For 10% CGT !? That's really low.

kurt206

|Country|Crypto CGT Regime|Rates|Allowances / Reliefs|Notes vs Belgium (10% + €10k exempt)| |:-|:-|:-|:-|:-| |**Belgium (from 1 Jan 2026)**|Flat CGT on “financial assets” (incl. crypto)|**10%**|**€10k annual exemption** (carry forward €1k/year, max €15k); step-up basis at 31 Dec 2025; exit tax if emigrate|Competitive flat rate; long-term not exempt like DE/PT| |**Germany**|Private sale rule|0% if held ≥1 year; taxed at income tax rates (14–45%) if <1 year|€600 allowance (very small)|Much better for long-term; worse for short-term high earners| |**Portugal**|CGT if held <365 days|**28%**|Exempt if ≥1 year|Same as Germany: superior for long-term, worse for short-term| |**UK (from Apr 2025)**|CGT on crypto|**18% / 24%** depending on income|**£3k** allowance|Belgium’s 10% + €10k is lighter| |**France**|Flat tax on digital assets|**30%** (12.8% IT + 17.2% social)|€305 exemption|Belgium much lighter| |**Netherlands**|Wealth tax (Box 3) on deemed returns|Effective \~36%|No CGT allowance (based on deemed return)|Very different model; can be harsher than Belgium| |**Spain**|Savings income tax|**19–28%**|None (bands apply)|Belgium lighter across brackets| |**Italy**|CGT on crypto|**26%33%** (rising to in 2026)|€2,000 threshold (shifting rules)|Belgium far lighter| that would be a mistake - 10% is still better than most European countries. Here's chatGPTs list:

forest-moth

How much CGT did you pay back in your own country LOL

AggravatingTrade9388

Yes you could and it’s already at 3k for CGT purposes. One thing though is that it’s for gains only so if you bought it for say 10k and it’s now 15k the gain is 5k for cgt purposes and you pay tax on the remaining 2k - basically you can do more than 3k a year for that reason

Wide-Measurement9654

One reason for me personally investing in the ETF is to avoid CGT via a tax free ISA. But I am accumulating in cold storage for the long term.

Epileptic_Fridgeboy2

Worth keeping an eye on government policy regarding CGT in the meantime. In the UK for example there are rumours CGT may get reset to match Income Tax percentage, although if it does happen it could get repealed by a future government and go back down. So, depending on how much you potentially plan to use in retirement, it's worth at least reconciling yourself with the fact you may lose a hefty chunk of your gains in tax. I know there are some fancy ways of getting around this but not all of them are safe or practical for a lot of people. Crypto is only going to get increasingly regulated from here on in, so conservative estimates of future income are better than fanciful ones.

Primary-Pie-1662

You can make £3000 in capital gains without incurring a CGT liability. So you can sell more than £3000, as your original stake that made £3000 is not taxable, only the gain. So if you bought £3000 of BTC and sold for £6000, all of that is tax free.

Far_Discount_9024

I bought 10 Bitcoin in 2015 for $465 each . I still own them all today . I dont buy any more Bitcoins now . I do buy a lot of coinbase and micro strategy shares . Never thought of selling. I did a cost of how much taxes ( CGT) I wouid have pay if I sold my 10 bitcoins. £185,000 in taxes. That's will never happen. I know people who took bigger risks and bought a few years before me . Multi millionaire, Iam happy for them . To risky at the time for me . Happy with what I have 👍👍🙏🥂🥳😇

andasifbymagicthere

Its profit not withdrawn amount. You could sell £1,000,000 and not pay any CGT as long as you bought for £997,000. You could also sell off any poor holdings and write off the losses in the same way. So if your holding some junk but wanted to take profits out of others those losses could be offset to keep your profits under the £3k

babblefish111

As long as you are realising under £3k in overall capital gains then you don't need to declare anything or do anything. Definitely best to keep it under £3000 to avoid having to submit a tax self assessment every year. What a scam though - a few years ago the CGT allowance was £12000 Watch out for the budget in November because they could mess with it again.

dex2grigg

Yep that's what I do. Fuck paying a penny in CGT to this government

turboRock

any crypto transaction attracts CGT. It' not just at the "cash out to fiat" phase.

Fluid_Garden8512

>Recommend selling all on PayPal for cash and transferring those dollars to Strike or River to buy real Bitcoin 1. You can withdraw Bitcoin on PayPal 2. OP is up 60%. Selling to rebuy will mean a large CGT event

Nullius_123

If you live in Britain, HMRC will expect you to declare the capital gain and pay CGT accordingly, no matter where in the world your gain arises. The so-called non-dom arrangements might still apply if you are not a citizen and haven't been in Britain for long. Seek professional tax advice.

I-make-ada-spaghetti

The whole point of doing this is to avoid having to pay capital gains tax because if you sell the asset you pay CGT and you miss out on any gains the asset would have accrued. If you borrow against it you pay no tax but you do have to pay interest which is ok because it is less than CGT and the interest payments aren't all due within a year of disposing of the asset. You only need enough cashflow to pay the interest. You are sort of using inflation to eat away at the debt. You still owe the same dollar figure but that amount of money has less value at the loan maturity date, plus you still own the asset which has hopefully increased in value relative to inflation.

Podsly

True, but tax evasion does. And for crypto like foreX where all transactions are CGT events, that is by definition avoiding the tax unless they show the tax department the transactions thus nullifying the use of Tornado Cash.

Fragrant_Strain2023

Best way to do it anyway bro, avoid that CGT. This is exactly what the richest people in the world do 🤜👌

Hot_Philosopher3199

It was held in self storage through a self directed IRA. Now it gets unwound to a Traditional IRA through Fidelity. No CGT

Makunouchiipp0

So you’re hitting yourself with a CGT event? You know in kind (both ways) is a thing? And if it’s not yet available in your country it won’t be too far away

StealthExplorer

I would investigate Strike. Have used them, easy-peasy. Just make sure you connect with Revolut or Monzo accounts or you are at risk of your bank account being frozen, or at the least opening up a can of worms. Remember too to keep all details of the transaction as you are most likely liable for CGT when/if you dispose of the bitcoin.

Aussiehash

You would need to talk to your accountant about CGT liabilities to the ATO, even if you intend to permanently migrate overseas. You might also have to pay land tax if you have an Aussie home that is not your principal residence.

forest-moth

Sell the Bitcoin on an exchange or to someone wanting your coins and pay the owing CGT What’s the question?

Dettol-tasting-menu

Well done and congrats! Bitcoin in your cold wallet is freedom bitcoin, while bitcoin in your IBIT custodian (Coinbase) account is locked up bitcoin. You’re right if you want to free your jail cell coin you will have to 1) sell your IBIT, 2) wait for settlement and take profit (if any), 3) set aside CGT amount (ouch), 4) send cash from ETF broker account to bitcoin exchange, 5) wait for exchange deposit process, and then finally 6) buy real bitcoin. Since it needs to go through the whole tradfi banking process, it could take days, and market could move significantly during the fiat transit, and the CGT will eat into your total stack too. That’s the price to pay for the “convenience” of ETF. If I were in your shoes I would just leave the IBIT untouched, but only stack real sats from now on. Once the sats get locked up in ETF the effort required to free them again is high and often not worth the trouble, better stay away from ETF from the beginning, provided that you have the technical capacity of self custodying. You have definitely made the right decision of buying real bitcoin, let’s stack real sats from now on. Good luck!