Reddit Posts
UK ISA / SIPP - my findings on how to get proper Bitcoin exposure
trading212 restricted from buyin $IBIT. Help a UK stacker
Micro strategy is a great play - but mainly for UK investors....prove me wrong
MEXC (non-KYC exchange) is apparently no longer providing services to the USA
Crypto entrepreneur faces potential prosecution in Israel related to $290M scam: Report
UK residents, how do you "avoid" paying taxes on crypto gains using legal avenues?
So you work all your life pay taxes save up like a good boy follow all the rules and then get sick and you can’t cash your ISA in as it’s fixed. Even worse you die and the big institutions don’t allow access to your loved ones.
Crypto Stocks vs Cryptocurrency: Which is Better for Tax Efficiency and Gains?
How are we feeling about crypto? Compared to shares it’s not too bad really.
To the parents on this sub, do you invest into crypto for your kids?
The Debate on Crypto Stocks vs Cryptocurrency: Which is the Better Option for Tax Efficiency?
if I'm an 18 year old and have $5k in savings, is BTC a good place to start making an account of money for my future?
Blended Investors: What % of your Investment Portfolio Do You Put Into Crypto? (Moderate Risk Profile)
Crypto withdrawals into Stocks and Shares ISA.
Mentions
First off, don't listen to Saylor unless you are god-awful rich. He isn't spending his money, he is spending *other people's money* and cashing out the stock appreciation on it. Be happy he is pumping BTC, but don't take the guys advice. If it were me, I'd diversify. BTC is all about timing and if you don't have a house, that would be something I'd look at using some of those funds. VTI 50%, BTC 40%, Emergency Cash 10% -- START PUTTING FUNDS IN A TAX ADVANTAGED ACCOUNT! ROTH IRA, NISA, ISA, etc -- whatever the account preference in your country.
Our expectations should be much longer-term than this. But ~48k up to ~60k, I think is pretty healthy. Still glad my savings aren't in a 5% ISA.
Junior ISA not heard of that before, not sure if they have that in Australia but I will look into that or an equivalent, thank you, this is for her essentially so this seems like sound advice 😊
Not your keys, not your coin, for sure. Learn the difference between an exchange, wallet, cold wallet etc I think you should just go watch some basic videos on Bitcoin investing, like real beginner 101 stuff, just because this will answer most of your questions. As for "is it a good investment", obviously most people here think so and are holding. How you invest is appropriate to your age and wealth. If you are learning and getting in the game with less than $1k usd, anything is kind of okay you are really just learning, the gains are nice but trivial. So any app that lets you buy and sell is probably fine, including cash app. If you are an adult investing your income/wealth, yeh it might pay to understand what you want. Do you want to 'own' bitcoin? Then buy off a crypto exchange like Coinbase, Kraken or many more and store in a your own wallet, preferably an offline (cold) one. IF you just want to speculate on price 'profit', then lots of mainstream brokers/apps let you do this. There are also then tax implications to think about at that point. If you are going to buy and hold for many years, then perhaps you want that in some kind of regulated account depending on. where you live (i.e US 401k, UK ISA)... You know that alone could be worth >30% depending on where you live. If you really just think BTC go up, but you also have your fingers in many pies (traditional finance), then looking at ETFs or Microstrategy might really be what you want. So think about what band you are in (1k,10k,100k,1m), your ability to take risk(rich college student vs mortgage paying parent of 3), learn the basics ('cold wallet', 'bitcoin cycle', 'halving', 'shitcoins') and then 99% of the time you should do DCA (Dollar Cost Average (Buy over time)) into Bitcoin only.
Nice one Chris, thats interesting. I wonder if i can do this in the uk. Id add notes about Stocks & Shares ISA (Roth Ira) you cant buy bitcoin from this account... but you can buy Bitcoin Etf's and be exempt from capital gains up to 20k year. The account lets you withdraw any amount of bitcoin back into fiat, including gains into the account and pay no tax. You dont get to own bitcoin, as etf's are an iuo. So perhaps a 60% Bitcoin (youre stratergy) 40% Bitcoin etf combo
I have a friend that calls himself a crypto investor... He doesn't own *any* crypto directly. His portfolio is full of bitcoin miners. He works like this because he CBA to sort out a crypto wallet and doesn't like the risk of things going wrong. I guess for him he feels secure in the familiarity of stocks. I'm not sure that's the best approach and I think the technical barrier is easily resolved. In the UK you can get a stock and share ISA (you pay no tax on the capital gains). This *might* represent an opportunity to generate more profit. In the UK at least, most of the time it doesn't make sense to invest outside of your ISA allowance. Saying that, I've not checked the %gain in crypto Vs bitcoin miners (or if they are available within the ISA wrapper). This might be the real stinger... I imagine crypto gains are higher. You also have the risk of being a company. Stocks and shares can be linked to the demise of a company. It needs to complete filings, continue to operate and someone can fuck up. I don't think this operational risk is really true for crypto. Finally it depends on your personal beliefs around crypto. If you believe it's just hyped nonsense that will rip, maybe you don't need the crypto directly. If you believe that it will be a mainstream currency, then perhaps owning directly is the answer. Anyway. Just some things to consider!
Nice one Crab!, well done. Your folks must be proud of you getting on with things. Great stuff. Youre well on your way to wealth if you stick to your plans. Think in terms of 4yr cycles and reaccess as you go. Dont get distracted by shitcoins. Heres some things to consider. Heres a bank set up that i have, which might spark some ideas: 1. **Main Current Account:** Used for expenses (food, travel, entertainment) and monthly liabilities (rent, council tax, mobile etc). THEN Set up direct debits to transfer small amounts to other accounts you have made. You can use a credit card tied to this account to build up a credit history (demonstrate you can handle debt, useful for buying house etc), BUT use it only to buy food. Only ever spending 30% of the cards limit. Use direct debit so that you can pay off the card balance every month, without fail, this ensures youll be getting a good credit rating and history. 2. **Saver Account (Yearly Liabilities):** An account to send direct debits to, to save up throughout the year. Use this to eventually pay for “Yearly bills” outright. The knack of this is to find bills you can pay for yearly. That way you can get a discount on the things you were going to buy anyway (car insurance, MOT, gas, electric, subscriptions, website host ect). Involves Discipline however, think of this as “not my money, its theirs”. Build up savings here means you don’t have to worry when the bills come round, youll have money available, all about less stress. 3. **Saver Account (Bitcoin):** This account is specifically for Bitcoin purchases, so that you have a record of how much you are sending as regular payments (DCA) over to the exchange. Everything is in one place. I use Bitcoin AS my savings account now. Because I can always withdraw it back into my bank as shitfiat if I need to. Whilst it sits as Bitcoin, im gaining more yearly interest than if I had left it in the shitbank. Only invest in money your willing to lock away for 4 years or more. 4. **Additional account:** If you get a Stocks and Shares ISA, you cant fund Bitcoin purchases from this account as youll end up paying capital gains as soon as you withdraw it back into Fiat into this account. BUT you can invest in Bitcoin ETF's. You cant take self custody of an ETF as its an IOU managed by some company, but you dont have to pay taxes on the capital gains. Which means you can invest up to £20,000 into BTC ETF's per year from your Stocks & Shares ISA, and you can withdraw any amount (example like £300,000) at any time tax-free, including gains you made from your BTC ETFs. This is on top of your £5000 personal savings allowance. So what ive done is a 70% bitcoin, and 30% bitcoin etf holdings. But make your own choices. If we do choose to sell BTC to buy a house at some point with the profits for example, then this would just be a measure of the “True Value” of your work and energy - stored as a stable commodity (Bitcoin) - and converted back into something tangible. Instead of youre savings being suppressed and devalued by fiat printing, it wouldnt matter then at that point what the measure of the fiat price of the house is, youre paying it from your storage of your hard work and getting true value from it when you convert it back not fiat. Anyway i thought that you might find that interesting. I wrote this as well, you probably know this by now but it worth a read: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1bhzx3g/comment/kviye25/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1bhzx3g/comment/kviye25/) All the best Crab!, crack on!
If investing in Bitcoin, the Capital gains tax is exempt for first £3000 So say you have £5000 invested in Bitcoin. If after 4yrs it has risen to £7300 after hodl, its has gained £2300. So IF you sell all of it and withdraw to a fiat bank, it is under the £3000 exemption. So no capital gains needing to pay. Anything more than £3000 gains, gets taxed at 20% If you had £20,000 invested into bitcoin, and it grew to £32,000 in 4 yrs. That’s a 12,000 profit. Your first £3000 is exempt from capital gains, so IF you sold all of it, youd have to pay 20% on the remaining £11,000, which is £2200 tax . . . Lets compare to buying Blackrocks Bitcoin ETF funded through a Stocks & Shares ISA Blackrocks management fee is 0.12% (if under 5 billion lol) annually. The annual fee on £20,000 \* 0.12% = £6 So over that period of four years you’d be paying £29.46 .... (6+6.9+7.8+8.76) handling fee But because youve funded it from a Stocks & share ISA, IF you sold all of your Bitcoin ETFS the £12,000 gains you made from selling it back into fiat would be nothing. As you’re exempt for the first £20,000
Hi StoicLaddie. Just some thoughts Personally Bitcoin IS the pension fund, everything else around it is devaluing, its a store of your true value. Lump sum to begin with then DCA after that point. Unlike pension funds, you still have access to withdraw it back into Fiat if you need to. Once the money you accumilate on an exchange outways you need to project it, transfer over to self custody. (Example: when you hit £2000, spend £25 gas fee to secure it) Only invest as much as you are willing to lock up for 4yrs, after all your cost of living and necessities are taken care of. Budget for DCA. If you get a Stocks and Shares ISA, you cant fund Bitcoin purchases from this account as youll end up paying capital gains as soon as you withdraw it back into Fiat. BUT you can invest in Bitcoin ETF's which means you cant take self custody (its an IOU), but you dont have to pay taxes on the capital gains and can save upto 20k year, on top of your £5 personal savings allowance. Hope that helps
Not at this time. HMRC does not regard Bitcoin as safe and doesn't recognise it as either a currency or money when it comes to pensions. One ETP has just gone live but again, funds are not allowed to offer it. Can't buy it in a SIPP or ISA either. So you either maybe take a gamble and get exposure via MSTR (Microstrategy) which you can add to SIPPs and ISAs. MST has a large exposure to BTC but that doesn't guarantee the equity's performance. So best to read up on that first before making a decision. Otherwise you have to get a broker to invest in Wisdom Tree ETP for you or buy BTC yourself. Just again, be aware how HMRC treats Bitcoin from a tax perspective.
this has now progressed into: Today i received letters canceling my ISAs (Help to buy, which is no longer available so i cant move that), and my stocks and shares ISA all that were funder from wages on payday
i may have to do this, today i received letters canceling my ISAs (Hel to buy, which is no longer available so i cant move that), and my stocks and shares ISA all that were funder from wages on payday
DO NOT TRAVEL YOUNG. Here's the maths... If you can max out a 5% ISA (which is an extremely conservative investment strategy) you'll have £2k every other year to go travelling with... FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. Every year you spend money you delay this possibility. This can be achieved earlier if you're prepared to take riskier investment strategies, BTC, Commodities and medium-high risk S&S's. You could be in your Mid 20's and be travelling off your interest... Don't listen to all these old people that have done nothing with their lives because they blew all their money travelling in their 20's I went travelling in my 18-early 20's and have regretted it ever since. I never once regretted buying BTC or Gold and me and my SO now hustle for a year then travel for a year with our PTO paid entirely with interest. Our pay checks go towards maxing out other investment options that will pay for more luxuries down the line.
Me and my other half only use interest for luxuries. Joint ISA at 5% pays for our holiday every other year. My S&S's ISA pays for my personal luxuries. BTC and Gold for the long haul. I still have to work atm but am well on the way for my paycheck pretty much entirely going towards more BTC and Gold whilst paying down the house. 30yo M, 22yo F SO, we only make 55k a year between us after tax atm but we already have one ISA maxed and I had a 40% down payment on my first home from BTC 20/21 rally profits.
Curious which provider you use for your S&S ISA, for individual shares?
Dude... what are you even talking about... That chart is not what you think it is... You can't just pick random figures to try and make a point LMAO The 3 year returns are based on the price at that point in time vs 3 years prior... so yeah it was up 46% last year based on 3 years prior because it took a nose dive in 2021... You need to learn to read charts better mate... [10 year average](https://www.google.com/search?q=s%26p+10+year+average+return&sca_esv=edb26598d7aebd42&rlz=1C1CHBD_en-GBGB995GB995&sxsrf=ADLYWIK0m969HcsAjss77Zd16qtTGfrVNA%3A1716263148827&ei=7BhMZs6NMsK2hbIPoIiWmAE&oq=S%26P+10+year+average&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiE1MmUCAxMCB5ZWFyIGF2ZXJhZ2UqAggAMgsQABiABBiRAhiKBTIFEAAYgAQyBhAAGBYYHjIGEAAYFhgeMgYQABgWGB4yBhAAGBYYHjILEAAYgAQYhgMYigUyCxAAGIAEGIYDGIoFMgsQABiABBiGAxiKBTILEAAYgAQYhgMYigVIrDtQzQ9Y7TFwAXgBkAEAmAFjoAHiCqoBAjE5uAEDyAEA-AEBmAIUoALtC8ICBxAjGLADGCfCAgoQABiwAxjWBBhHwgINEAAYgAQYsAMYQxiKBcICDhAAGLADGOQCGNYE2AEBwgIZEC4YgAQYsAMY0QMYQxjHARjIAxiKBdgBAsICChAjGIAEGCcYigXCAgoQABiABBhDGIoFwgIQEC4YgAQY0QMYQxjHARiKBcICChAuGIAEGEMYigXCAhAQABiABBixAxhDGIMBGIoFwgIWEC4YgAQYsQMY0QMYQxiDARjHARiKBcICDRAAGIAEGLEDGEMYigXCAhUQABiABBixAxhDGIMBGIoFGEYY-gHCAiEQABiABBixAxhDGIMBGIoFGEYY-gEYlwUYjAUY3QTYAQPCAg4QABiABBiRAhixAxiKBcICChAAGIAEGBQYhwLCAggQABiABBiiBJgDAIgGAZAGEroGBggBEAEYCboGBggCEAEYCLoGBggDEAEYE5IHBDE4LjKgB4uZAQ&sclient=gws-wiz-serp) Gold is about 8.8% so in the same ballpark... Yeah my bad CIPH hasn't been that bad but cost of living is drastically worse... And my returns haven't been bad because I'm ALL-IN BTC and Gold... Bro I don't set the rates I shop around every year and haven't been able to get better than 5% on a fixed term limited withdrawal ISA since I had the funds to max it out....
Problem is even tax advantage accounts aren't keeping up with inflation these days... I have one limited withdrawal ISA that me and the SO have maxed out that comes in about 5% AER, it doubles as our emergency fund since we get 3 withdrawals a year... it pays for a holiday once every other year for QoL... Every other penny is in Gold and BTC... Nothing even comes close on a ten year time frame... nothing even comes close save maybe the S&P but I can't fathom propping up the monopoly for the sake of 2-3% higher than inflation year on year...
I've got tiny sell orders at various price points (105k, 127k etc.) to make overpayments on my mortgage or fill up my ISA for the year. It's an incredibly small % of my stash, which I continue to stack. It's also planned for navigating certain tax-free thresholds, investment limits and overpayment fees. It's not "taking profits" as fiat is dying... It's simply moving assets around to ensure the timeframe it takes fiat to croak doesn't affect me.
It's the only way at the moment as we are excluded from the bitcoin ETF market. So if you want the exposure in your SIPP or ISA, all you can do is add MSTR, Grayscale Future of Finance or maybe one of the tracker funds like XBT. So yeah for the tax break and exposure it's the best you can do for now.
1. **Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) Regulation**: ISA providers must be authorized and regulated by the FCA. This ensures that they adhere to strict standards regarding how they operate and manage client funds. 2. **Financial Services Compensation Scheme (FSCS)**: If an ISA provider goes bankrupt or fails, the FSCS protects consumers by compensating them up to £85,000 per financial institution. This covers cash ISAs and stocks and shares ISAs. 3. **Prudential Regulation Authority (PRA)**: Banks and building societies offering ISAs are also regulated by the PRA, which oversees the financial stability and soundness of financial firms. 4. **Client Money Rules**: For providers of stocks and shares ISAs, there are stringent client money rules in place, which require them to segregate client funds from their own funds. This helps protect investors' money in the event of the provider’s insolvency. Number 2 is probably the only relevant one to us, and I appreciate that £85k is not a lot, but at least we know exactly how much we are protected for. Considering that you can sell literally tax free, I'd personally invest with the threshold in mind to take advantage of the savings, and purchase the rest in a self custody way.
> ISA providers are probably safer than the average private key holder. They are "safer" because you don't even get the actual thing that you are looking for. It's like wanting to get a kitchen knife but instead receiving a picture of a knife. Yes, it's "safer" because you can't cut yourself, but you also don't have a knife. You just have a picture of it. If that's what you want, it's of course fine. Andreas explains it well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP5xdXj0Bp4
Who knows but it didn't go so well last time. My traditional investments dipped when the pandemic hit but quickly recovered and then they have risen steadily ever since. I opened an ISA (a UK tax free investment account) at the end of 2021 and put in £20k, the maximum amount. It's now sat at £28k. If I'd put that into bitcoin I would have seen it drop to £5k before eventually recovering to £19k or whatever today's value is. My traditional investment has given me a decent return given the UK has recovered slowly after the pandemic, suffered the fallout of leaving the EU and a war in Europe. Bitcoin would have lost me money. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for some BTC speculation and I buy in periodically but for me it's a fun speculative investment. I'm way off shifting my core savings into it. I expect my traditional investment to double in 5-10 years. No need to be greedy. If bitcoin goes 100x or whatever, fantastic. That will leave me very comfortable. If we're hoping it will double to 150k in the next year or two... thats a bit "meh". This bull run seems to have died out. Thankfully the price hasn't collapsed but we hardly soared to new territory. Briefly broke the ATH by a smidge. I think it's still too early for serious money to touch bitcoin. I get it. It can work. But slow and steady wins the race.
I had fun during COVID, I made my profit and backed out but left enough to play around with. Got bored lately with crypto and stopped getting involved. Now somewhat out of touch as far as what's what. Would rather maximise my return on what's left and move it all into my stocks ISA.
Hopeless? Hell, no! Crypto currency is a punt, it's a gamble, it's not a retirement plan. If you want to retire, take 10% of your monthly earnings and put it into a low-cost stocks and shares ISA/IRA every month. 20 years from now, you'll have a sizable chunk of money due to compounding interest. Cryptocurrency is not that. Don't treat it as such. These people are whales because they have the capital and investment-clout behind them to make a 50% upswing in price a valid target. Unfortunately, most of us don't. I've been in the crypto-sphere since 2017, just putting a couple of thousand in, in the middle of the bear market, and waiting until I've hit my very modest goals in the bull. I've made a sizeable chuck on that strategy. But I've never looked at it as anything other than supplementary income. My main investments have always been in something more reliable, like the S&P500. It's not as glamorous as the swanky crypto scene, but it's what will allow me to retire early.
I bet If you asked to take out a $9000 loan though they'd bump you to the front of that queue... Modern banking and financing is a massive joke. I keep just enough cash to pay my bills and have a 6 month cash reserve that I swap between Tax free ISA's at about 5% interest which pays for mine and the SO's holiday every other year... The fixed has a max 3 withdrawals yearly which is more than enough for emergencies. Every penny beyond that goes into BTC... the profits from each cycle go into the house/gold then the DCA begins again. Self custody will free us all from corrupt governments.
Just give me a fucking GBP ETF that I can buy in my ISA
The correct answer is both. I would call myself a maxi but at the same time during bull runs and periods of high volatility my portfolio allocation is usually around 50 - 75% BTC, I'll usually take some profit and start my DCA again each cycle but during the periods of low volatility and bearish sentiment I try to keep the split even, 30% BTC, 30% gold, 30% stocks and shares (ETF's), 10% cash reserve sometimes less I might have some of this in short fixed term ISA's and use the interest to pay for a holiday here and there... 1-2 year fixed, bringing the liquid down to about 5% sometimes... I'm in the UK and even though our economy is trash the pound sterling has traditionally always been quite strong... here's hoping we stop inflating closer to the dollar and Euro sometime soon...
No... If it drops you buy more... as little as possible whatever you can afford and you balance out your average... you keep doing this to bring your average down then if it goes up again your break-even is lower... You ride the waves for 4-5 years doing this and you'll have made more money than any ISA, Index fund, or pension scheme ever will...
Inflation is only good if you already own assets... If employers can't afford to keep up with inflation you're gonna have a workforce that can't afford to invest so only those who are 40+ and already have their bonds, ISA's pension funds etc... filled will benefit. WEALTH INEQUALITY is the largest problem facing us, not gender, not racism, not lefties or conservatives... We should all be refusing to vote, refusing to pay tax and revolting in the streets about this unless you want to end up living a scifi dystopian reality inside that dumb meta-fucks AI controlled VR (looking at you zuckerburgerface).
I both doubt and regret that. I have the majority of mine is an ISA. I started to DCA BTC from 40k in December and after the pump it already surpassed my annual return on the ISA with far less funds. I just wish I had balls to transfer it all into BTC when I knew I should have.
So, at the end of 2017 I dumped £100 in BTC and left it alone, haven't had the cash spare to 'invest' as much as I wanted to, plan was £100 pcm. However, I checked my BTC balance the other day after not paying any attention, and £600! That's a 500% ROI in 6 years. I also put £100 in a S&S ISA with Vanguard, FTSE Global All Cap back in 2022, and that sits at £125, so a ROI of 25%. Now I know the dates are different and you could say if I'd had invested in the FTSE Global at the same time, things would be different, but I think it's an interesting view
Gold has its place... My first ever investment was a 1oz Krugerrand, I still keep a hefty amount of gold, averages 10% a year 2\^5x returns is a decent piggy bank for retirement. I'm like 50% BTC at this point though If you don't include the house... 25% gold 25% a mixture of ISA's...
Nice, one of the few BTC related investments I seem to be allowed to hold in a tax advantaged ISA in the UK, so will look into whether they are a good buy.
I can second the kraken pro ability to do it. It can be done there. I put a small amount in to try it out and lost it all pretty quickly so it put me off. I also thought we weren't meant to be able in the UK and if that is correct then it might be a bit of a worry if you do well and then cash out and HMRC learn about it at tax time. Miners might also offer a little bit of leveraged gains. I'm not expert at all. Just recently been thinking about BTC and my ISA. To that end I bought some coinbase, Mstr and some clearspark shares to test the water.
That's not the right question the question should be what percentage is in Fiat and the answer should be loooowww... I keep 3 months income of cash available... every other penny is somewhere else... If I need money in a pinch I have Credit cards with at least another 9 months worth of income on their limit... this is plenty of time to move money around wherever I get a good price... whether thats ISA's, Gold, BTC... and pay off the credit...
tldr; Andreessen Horowitz (a16z) has released an open-source code for 'Jolt,' a zero-knowledge virtual machine (zkVM), marking its venture into deep tech research. Jolt aims to enhance blockchain scalability and privacy through cryptographic techniques, supporting RISC-V ISA and Rust programming language applications. It claims to be significantly faster than its nearest competitor, RISC Zero. While not specifically designed for Ethereum, a16z believes Jolt can improve zkEVMs and other blockchain applications. The firm's move into tech development is part of its strategy to contribute to the crypto space's advancement while maintaining its role as a leading investor. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.
My ISA provider has 2 blockchain ETFs. One has a large allocation to COIN.
MSTR in the ISA, pure form Bitcoin and wait for the financial services to mature around borrowing against at a reasonable LTValue. Miners present unnecessary additional risk and uncertainty consider mstr is a leveraged position. Coinbase will underperform mstr as they use convertible debt to buy dogshit. Alternatively buy bitcoin and just leave the UK.
Balls on this one, fair play. A more cautious person would diversify at least a coin or two (presuming not at a loss) in a stocks and shares ISA/investment account though just as a hedge. This is literally all your eggs and more in one single investment option
Ok thanks. MSTR I could have figured out, but didn't know the abbreviation. ISA is out of my jurisdiction. Anyway, holding shares of a company holding bitcoin doesn't make you owning bitcoin. Still 80% for me
MSTR - Microstrategy - owns over 1% of all Bitcoin that will ever exist. ISA - tax free wrapper for holding cash and investments in UK
I have no idea what MSTR and ISA are. So from my point of view, you have 80% of a coin and other things.
It’s in an ISA which is a tax free account in the UK. So no tax if I sell. On the other hand I would be obligated to pay tax if I sell my BTC. Which I don’t intend on doing in any case.
The MSTR in an ISA was originally ring fenced in case of a family/financial emergency which fortunately never transpired. Otherwise I would have put it into Bitcoin. But now it’s still there, the tax efficiency of it being in an ISA has become more appealing. The other issue with my cold storage is training up the wife to being able to access my cold storage. She’s not exactly interested and a bit of a technophobe so it’s a concern if I was to get hit by a bus tomorrow my coins are potentially lost. Current plan is to avoid busses and do a detailed video guide on using Bitcoin. Other issues around my cold storage BTC is that less than half is KYC. So not sure how easy the larger portion will be to off ramp… certainly not a straight forward estate planning situation
Studies have repeatedly demonstrated that DCA produces inferior results to lump sum investing. There are COUNTLESS papers on this and this is well understood in financially literate circles. That I got -3 while you got 26 shows that people around here are just financially illiterate FOMOers that don't even have a trading account or ISA/roth.
If you’re freaking out when Bitcoin is up 46% ytd then this probably isn’t for you. Get an ISA instead.
this was exactly my idea! it’s a great way for exposure to Bitcoin in an ISA without access to an ETF. Seriously though, the govt. needs to speed up a little. I feel like we’re ten steps behind the rest of the world on every legislation
I hold MSTR in my stocks and shares ISA for the tax wrapped btc exposure. Aslong as our backwards government keeps shunning crypto ill keep up my DCA with MSTR
Yes but I don’t think there’s any ISA product here in the UK that has crypto in it yet. Once that day comes I’ll be moving everything over!
But dividends stocks in a tax free ISA shouldn't have these issues right?
Monzo have good to me so far but I dont expect it to last. Just started DCAing into MSTR via ISA now. Backwards country
UK would be an ISA. I never thought about buying a bitcoin ETF within a tax wrapper before. It’s a good one.
and we dont have to pay broker fees or tax when in a ISA 🍻🤣
However it would be interesting to buy additional Bitcoin, you will lose the £2,000 incentive if you withdraw from your Lifetime ISA. When making a decision, carefully consider the risks and your financial objectives.
You'll lose more than the 2k bonus because the penalty is 25% of everything inside the ISA. Don't do it. Especially if you're using the LISA to buy a house. Bitcoin may give you higher expected returns, but with the higher volatility, it's not worth risking your housing deposit. If you want, add new money from outside your LISA to bitcoin.
Everyone is different. I guess I'm speaking for me personally. I'd downsize, take the equity, buy a motorhome and tour the world in it. That's ultimately my plan. To retire at 50. All being well, my crypto portfolio, ISA, pension and equity from the sale of my home will be enough to retire on. I appreciate that not everyone wants to live like this. I was in London yesterday and I saw people in their 60s, possibly 70s suited and booted. I felt sad, I really hope that isn't me. I figured most people want to keep their family home, and have a lifestyle they aren't prepared to give up. The nice cars on finance, the big family home with just them and their partner rattling around in it. Each to their own but I think £1m is plenty.
I introduced my friend to crypto last cycle. He put all his ISA (UK savings) into alts near ath then sold near the bottom. I feel bad but he doesn't blame me.
I loaded up at £16,000 BTC and like you, ran out of money. I have 12 months savings, income insurance and continue to DCA into my ISA monthly before anyone thinks I'm over exposed.
As for buying Bitcoin with minimal fees: It depends on how you plan to custody it. If you don't mind a company doing it, I would recommend buying FBTC in an ISA. If you want to own your own Bitcoin, the on-chain fee might be problematic for self custody, nearing £8/transaction today. Withdrawal via Kraken's Lightning Network is fee-free, but I'm not familiar enough with Lightning security to know that's the ideal long-term solution. Keeping Bitcoin on exchanges is indeed risky: MtGox, FTX, QuadrigaCX, etc. all collapsed on people who kept their funds on the exchanges
HMRC is UK, right? Have you ever thought of investing in Microstrategy by way of a stocks and shares ISA?
Thank you. I'll need to have another look. I use HL for my regular investment ISA and saw the option for American stocks for regular investment but gave up and didn't pursue it at all. Cheers. I'll definitely need to have a proper look. Much appreciated. 👍
Can you buy microstrategy for an ISA? I thought US shares weren't allowed. I'd be so happy to be wrong?
You may want to take a look at buying some Microstrategy and putting it into an ISA or SIPP.
Many institutions, eg pension funds, cannot buy Bitcoin direct. We also cannot buy Bitcoin through a tax free ISA. If the UK had Bitcoin ETFs, we could put it in our pensions / ISA accounts. That’s not possible.
The advisor I spoke to was actually aware of Bitcoin at the time (September 2010), they went into many reasons why it was likely a scam and that I'd be better putting my money into bonds or an ISA. I'm actually annoyed by how much they discouraged me about it.
The fact the alternative was to invest in the bank lol. High fees and shit products. If not Bitcoin something like an ISA/Roth IRA with vanguard would have been the move. High street / commercial banking is arguably the worst possible decision (financially).
Cash out, world ETF in an S&S ISA (not sure what the equivalent is in the US). Pretty much a guaranteed 12% per year. In 20 years you're looking at around $100k, give or take (probably safer to assume anywhere between $80k - $120k.
Living with family still, not having a costly lifestyle, and just working a full time job and saving every paycheck. It's doable, just unlikely for a 20 year old as it implies little to no social life, which definitely cuts down costs. But at that age, I'd recommend putting the majority of it into an index fund, like the S&P500, and make sure its in a non taxable account (Roth IRA in US? Or stocks and shares ISA in the UK, or whatever your countries equivalent is) and just leave that for a few decades while topping it up with each paycheck. The remainder, bitcoin and maybe ETH, depending on your personal tastes
There is no tax if there are no gains. Also the CGT allowance is no longer £12.300. Based on your lack of knowledge, I'd recommend sticking to ISA.
Out of interest, why are you bothering with “stable” coins? I’d rather put my money into a stocks and shares ISA (uk) if I was interested in a steady growth like 10%
If you put 10k into these different things, then walked away and lived your life, with no time spent on it, or worrying about it, here is what you’d have: Bitcoin: 13k S&P 500: 11.2k FTSE global all cap: 11.4K MSFT: 14k And in most of these etf/shares, there was a massive drop in 2022… so these returns are much worse than other time periods. Given your post and stress, I’d very much suggest putting your money in a tax wrapper (ISA in UK, IRA in USA) and investing in some sensible funds, and just living your life again. I’ve more than doubled my money without doing ANY short term trading.
I don’t know- I have a buddy that works at a large financial institution in US and he said they were legit looking at XRP, I believe as an alternative for swift etc. but when the whole SEC thing started I think it got tabled and likely permanently but who knows. What I bought of it is so low vs what I paid figured I would let it ride and see.. however now I’m thinking exchange for BTC and count the loss on my 2024 taxes. I’m tired of alts minus ETH and not because it’s technology is best but like BTC has first mover advantage. Best tech doesn’t often win over adoption (Betamax vs VHS, micro channel vs ISA / EISA bus, etc. there have been many better technologies in my life that did not make it).
Buy MSTR in a stocks and shares ISA instead :)
HMRC don't want anyone putting crypto into an ISA think of the tax loss. It's one reason they are slashing capital gains allowance....suddenly the plebs are making use of it, and they can't have that!
UK capital gains allowance is about to drop to £3k. It used to be high enough that no one really worried because who makes a fiver figure gain these days lol Depending on your personal tax rate you then pay up to 20% Now it's £3k allowance people could have to pay some tax, but only if you actually make a gain lol You have to pay on every transaction. So if you bought at 10k and then merely moved it to another wallet when it was at 20k our government would see that as a £10k gain and tax would be due. £3k allowance so potentially £1400 (20% of 7k) to pay just for moving it! For traditional investments we are allowed to shield £20k from tax each year in an ISA, a tax free savings account. This is more than enough for normal people. I think I'll stick to that thanks.
Premium bond (I have above average luck) stocks (ISA) and Vanguard.
You can buy relevant shares (such as coinbase or microstrategy ) in ISA or SIPP for some tax free correlated growth but with actual crypto the CGT limit is a nuisance. Even if your gains are within the limit, you still need to complete a tax return if you trade 4x the CGT limit.
Oh, f*** yes! Luna wiped me out in 2022. So, I took out a £6k loan in bear market just before the end of zero rates. Went all in on $INJ and $RNDR , it has turned out handsomely well 10x. .. I TP last summer to plough the gains into BTC miners and did 3x via ISA (tax-free account) which I'm still holding LT. I could have left it all in INJ as it has done 30x. But hey, I can't complain. Be careful thought.
Noone that I can find in the UK is offering any of the new US BTC spot ETFs for ISA or SIPP wrappers But that could change at any time I'm sure when they are allowed to do so they'll be shouting it from the roof tops
It's simple, they act as a tax free deriviative. For example, in the UK, you can put them in a tax free ISA or a Self Invested Private Pension.
I'm hoping Vanguard UK will give access to a BTC spot ETFs so I can move my ISA & pension to it I've a few other friends who are considering doing the same We can't be the only ones Even if not a crypto maxi, the average person could easily tolerate say 5% exposure into the crypto space and these BTC spot ETFs would be the easiest way for them to get it
That’s crazy. In Ireland it’s €1,200 per year, I shit you not. So the only way around the exemption is through an ISA or a pension for you then?
Sell under the capital gains limit each year and put against the mortgage. At the same time see if any isa providers allow you to buy bitcoin etf via ISA wrapper so you can enjoy tax free gains…
When you consider that you don't have costs for self custody (e.g. not buying a ledger) and the potential for favourable tax arrangements such as ISA, Roth IRA, it's not such a bad deal paying a bit of overhead for the ETF.
Am I right in thinking I can't get BTC ETFs in UK? Have to rely on proxies like MSTR, COIN and miners in my ISA account.
I got most of my stash tucked away into BTCETC in ISA and SIPP before the gate closed in December 2020 (all brokers banned them about a month before the FCA deadline of 6th January 2021)
Even if you are tech enabled enough to just buy Bitcoin itself and self custody there can still be a tax advantage to an ETF if you can buy it in whatever your country’s version of a Tax free investment account is eg a UK Stocks and Shares ISA.
It's tax efficient. The key is enabling it inside and ISA or pension or other tax advantaged wrapper
If/when we get this ETF, I think I'll put 2-5% of it into my ISA that I dca into at least once a month. Will be nice to get some profits off of BTC in a tax adv account. Just dunno on deciding how much of the allocation since I actually buy crypto directly.
Yeah, FCA aint having it yet though. MSTR probably best bet over the bull market for UK ISA/SIPP. Might be a bit held back in Q1 though.
If I can get them in my interest free ISA account then yes, I'm sure I will.
Tax advantages. No capital gains tax if it's held in whatever the American equivalent of a stocks & shares ISA is.
You have property which means your wealth is nicely split. For everyone else though I don’t suggest going all in on btc. I went in very heavy am happy with my position and am now looking to diversify any saving I make. Living in germany though which sucks as they don’t really have ISA account. I’m literally just waiting for the price of gold to dip below 2k then will just grab a handful. No other ideas really and I don’t wanna start trading with my money
To be honest, reading this post, I suggest you sell it and look up a nice safe Fund somewhere depending on where you live. In the UK it would be an Investment ISA
I think it’s not the correct way 1. You could optimise your tax by using Roth IRA / ISA. You don’t have to pick stocks. Just put all your money in to spy 500 or QQQ Index. Index exists for these reasons 2. When every thing is priced in BTC, 99% of portfolio with BTC makes sense. We do not live in that world now. Every time you convert BTC to fiat you have to pay capital gain tax and every time you buy BTC with fiat you will have to pay spread. You will pay to government each time you convert to and from fiat to BTC 3. Cashing out will depend upon your risk preference. 4. How are you managing your BTC custody ? What will happen when your BTC is lost ? Seed got stolen, forgot the key etc etc .. what will you do in that scenario ? Keeping all eggs in 1 basket is never a good solution
Not convinced this is a great idea. But to answer your question with an option. Could buy a crypto ETF via a trade account. Depending on country, trading 212, Robinhood, Webull. Could do it via tax effective wrapper if he has allowances left (eg. In UK S&S ISA with T212). For example in the UK we have access to VanEck ETFs via Trading212. Or as others have said, central crypto exchange to buy coins. Don’t respond to any PMs!
Wish we could buy crypto via ISA, hopefully one day!