Reddit Posts
UK ISA / SIPP - my findings on how to get proper Bitcoin exposure
trading212 restricted from buyin $IBIT. Help a UK stacker
Micro strategy is a great play - but mainly for UK investors....prove me wrong
MEXC (non-KYC exchange) is apparently no longer providing services to the USA
Crypto entrepreneur faces potential prosecution in Israel related to $290M scam: Report
UK residents, how do you "avoid" paying taxes on crypto gains using legal avenues?
So you work all your life pay taxes save up like a good boy follow all the rules and then get sick and you can’t cash your ISA in as it’s fixed. Even worse you die and the big institutions don’t allow access to your loved ones.
Crypto Stocks vs Cryptocurrency: Which is Better for Tax Efficiency and Gains?
How are we feeling about crypto? Compared to shares it’s not too bad really.
To the parents on this sub, do you invest into crypto for your kids?
The Debate on Crypto Stocks vs Cryptocurrency: Which is the Better Option for Tax Efficiency?
if I'm an 18 year old and have $5k in savings, is BTC a good place to start making an account of money for my future?
Blended Investors: What % of your Investment Portfolio Do You Put Into Crypto? (Moderate Risk Profile)
Crypto withdrawals into Stocks and Shares ISA.
Mentions
I agree with the sentiment, however having some exposure to vehicles such as $CEP/$XXI/$MSTR isn’t a bad idea if it means you have tax free exposure in an ISA or 401k. It’ll never be as good as owning sats, and it’s important to understand exactly what these companies offer, but exposure via other means isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
trying to find this info too. I use IBKR for my ISA and for IB1T it's telling me: "Restricted: Clients from your country cannot open positions in crypto-related products. Restricted: Must request Complex or Leveraged Exchange-Traded Product permissions for trading." I use Hargreaves Lansdown for my SIPP and IB1T is not even listed/available.
Why not both? Make it a competition of the assets! I have a cash ISA and an S&S ISA along with my Bitcoin stack in which I put the same amount of money each month. Interesting to see what it looks like in 5 years.
For anyone American who isn’t aware, the UK has a tax wrapper called an ISA that allows you to invest a certain amount every year with tax free profits. Currently the best (?) way to get bitcoin exposure in an ISA is to buy MSTR. A blackrock ETP will probably be popular!
MSTR is a good option for ISA’s
Will we be able to buy this for our SIPP and ISA?
Can we buy Bitcoin as part of our ISA already
I have both. My take is as follows: Most of the proper investment goes into proper brokerages. For me this is my SIPP, my ISA, and my brokerage account. The advantages are obvious: the money is pretty darn safe, you can buy and sell options, you can buy the equity with your Lombard and/or and you can have tax advantages in a wrapper. Plus, if you die the money does not disappear. The disadvantages: very much in theory, it can get confiscated. However, people make megabillions with shares and nobody confiscates them. 6102 is the only precedent, and ot me it's not enough to be worried (my brokerage is not in the US, either). But having your own cold wallet also has its disadvantages. If you start with 30-40k and then add, you might have an awful, awful lot of money depending on things not going badly. Yes, if you do all properly things will never go bad, but it's one of those things... If you drive properly you never have a car accident. Are you so sure you'll never have a car accident? I am now adding EUR1000/month on my cold wallet, and have total BTC exposure in the low hundreds of K. My plan is that by the time my cold wallet becomes a substantial amount of money I will be so "fit" that it will become second nature. But I don't even dream of putting 40k on my cold wallet now. Some people will tell you "not your keys, not your coin". I wonder how many of these people have ended up losing their keys, and losing the coins as a result. Besides, yes they \*are\* my coins, because I have a legal title to it.
Saylor owns both Class A (1 vote) and B shares (10 votes) and has a controlling (>51%) of voting power. If he wants to grow share count, it'll happen. Regardless, I understand that other public companies can do the same by printing shares out of thin air. The question was why buy MSTR if I want some Bitcoin over just buying Bitcoin directly. For me, I'm looking at it outside of a tax advantage account. I didn't know about UK not allowing the ETF in the ISA account so that makes sense for those in UK to purchase MSTR for some Bitcoin exposure.
> the dollar can be printed out of thin air forever. Wouldn't this also apply to MSTR shares Sure, but the same applies to shares in *any* company. So who gets to decide whether to print more shares? Whoever owns the company. Who owns the company? The shareholders. i.e. the shareholders might agree to create more shares (even though it dilutes their own holdings), but only if they think any money raised will be used to make the company more valuable (e.g. buying bitcoin at a favourable price). Saylor may be the public face of the company, but he still only owns <10% of MSTR. The majority is held by institutional investors like Vanguard & Blackrock. > If I want to invest in Bitcoin, wouldn't it be better to just buy Bitcoin or the Bitcoin ETF if I don't want to deal with cold storage? Sure. MSTR is, as you suggest, more of a leveraged play on bitcoin versus actual self custody or ETFs, but it does have some advantages - e.g. in the UK I can't hold BTC or the ETFs in a tax-advantaged wrapper (ISA), but I can hold equities like MSTR this way. > nothing is stopping the next company from copying MSTR Of course, but it's still a win for MSTR - if another company buys lots of BTC, it pushes the price up, making BTC, and hence MSTR, more valuable.
Do lots of research! To be fair, this subreddit is full of a lot of wise people. What you have to bare in mind with crypto and BTC, it is volatile, but for big gains upwards, there are equally big drops down, but this is the way it is engineered. It is also highly manipulated by the big players, they purposefully crash the market to scoop up panicked retail investors coins for cheap! I dare say a lot FOMO'd in at the ATH BTC top in December and many panic sold when it has dropped to 80k recently etc, the classic "Buy high and sell low", don't be that person! Buy and hold is one way to do well it seems, "stack the sats" as people say. Commit to buy regardless of the price, because in the future, it is going to hopefully be significantly higher in value than nowadays! DCA is what a lot do (Dollar Cost Average) and it doesn't harm to pick up more when you have spare funds available and the market is red or has been crashed by the big players. Buy when the blood is in the water, BTC is said not to be linked to normal markets, but it somewhat follows market sentiments and moves accordingly in my opinion. Understanding the fundamentals to Bitcoin and the reason it was created will ensure you have a better idea of what you are holding. A good book available from Amazon is "Bitcoin Explained Like I'm 5: A Simple Guide" I found it from this forum and bought it for my 8 year old son for Xmas, it is a book that is a nice read and explains the basic concepts of Bitcoin if you are 5 or 55! You just need to be aware of the risks of crypto or high risk assets, don't invest what you cannot lose and don't use money you may need in the future near term. I invest in to stocks and crypto around 10-15% of my monthly pay salary which allows me to pay my bills, but also invest in the future with spare money to enjoy life with. Do your own due diligence and make the decision if investing in BTC is right for you. I believe in it, but you need to find that belief yourself and not take advice from someone on a forum, but rather take it with a pinch of salt to make your own mind up on it! This is not financial advice, DYOR/DD always before investing in to anything! Watch videos on YouTube, but again, remember some YouTubers pump certain coins for their own gain (Altcoins more so than BTC). BTC is becoming more discussed between the average person! I get asked a lot by friends, family and work colleagues nowadays, it is clear the general population is starting to learn more, it shows we are early in to this financial tool despite many thinking they have "missed the boat". Large companies like MicroStrategy are stacking Bitcoin for the future as well as countries (USA BTC reserve etc). You can also invest through stocks such as MicroStrategy who are a leveraged play on BTC, this is an advantage for some, because they hold it in an ISA or ROTH IRA for a tax free wrapper exposure to Bitcoin. Also ETF's such as iBit provide the same advantage. I do hold MSTR stock, but in the interest of the Bitcoin subreddit, holding the actual asset is the safest thing, as you control your crypto (MSTR could in theory sell BTC and you cannot do anything about it - I don't think they will, but it is possible). Storing your Bitcoin is another thing to research, you can hold on an exchange like Coinbase or Binance, or you can transfer it to cold storage to protect your investment, there is so much to bare in mind and learn! Good luck! It is more complex than it seems and it is exciting to read and learn about. You can also invest small amounts to see how it works. It depends on your outlook, but unless you are a seasoned day trader, it is not about quick gains, but rather developing potential generational wealth over time. That's my opinion anyhow. All the best! loopy
If their stock is 3x the value of bitcoin, they do what Saylor did and sell stock hard and fast to get cash and buy bitcoin. They are getting bitcoin at a third of the price of their stock. They have to do that now to get bitcoin at a discount. In future the stock price may permanently settle to a more leisurely 1.5 multiplier of stock to bitcoin holdings value, but if bitcoin goes up then share price goes up and everyone is happy. If it gets to 2x-3x again, guess what, he can sell off some shares again and buy more bitcoin at a discount. Rinse repeat. The question is, where is the natural range? Nobody knows how to price the stock and so we get double volatility of bitcoin price swing and stock market price swings. Even if it matched at 1x their holdings, if you are a bitcoin believer it could still 10x in 5-10 years. And, assuming you would rather hold MSTR for tax advantages, you may not care about a 1 to 1 ration vs bitcoin and just want to ride the wave in a tax efficient manner (UK ISA for example)
Investing in the stock market doesn't generate growth, though. The only time that capital is generated for a company is when they initially float or if they dilute and offer new shares. Me trading a stock with you isn't doing anything for the underlying company. I'm happy to be corrected on this, though, if I'm wrong. I assume (in this instance) that you will only be able to invest in local markets, and they are hoping this will encourage more companies to list on their stock exchange. That is still the EU trying to influence and limit where they can put their money. I only have American shares in my stocks and shares ISA, and if Rachel from accounts trys to limit me to only British companies I'll close it down and put it all into Bitcoin. I'm English mate.
\>Always when they speak it sounds like they want to invest our money That is effectively what they're (and everyone else is) doing. Not through coercion, but incentives and regulation. Whether it's a British ISA or an American 401(k). They steer where money goes and does not go through tax wrappers, pension accounts, and any other preferential tax treatment that allows you to invest in some and not other things.
5%, 30% LISA, 40% ISA, 25% stocks and bonds
Mostly BTC, but I also hold mainly index funds in an ISA (tax-free). I try to max out my ISA allowance every year, with what's left going to a mix of premium bonds (also tax-free) and BTC.
So long as it is an amount you can afford without thinking too much about it, it could indeed be a very good investment. If you'd started 5 years ago, £50 a week would now be worth £44k. Used the [whatifbitcoin.org](http://whatifbitcoin.org) tool to get that figure. There are other investment vehicles which are considered the standard route to wealth which you may want to invest in at the same time, the returns are lower but have stood the test of time, i.e: a weekly investment in an sp500 index tracker, you can easily set this up in a trade212 ISA. I'd recommend the book 'Quit Like a Millionaire' by Kirsty Shen. The key take away to all these books, is you have a massive advantage if you start early, 2nd, it is important to invest in index funds because they have stood the test of time.
Got spare cash in my ISA to place on bitcoin miners for the un dip.
Crypto is no place for emotional people, and if this is what a dip day does to your mental state, you're better off just sticking with an ISA.
I live in UK so the equivalent to this would be an ISA. I am only 20 years old, so honestly am willing to risk more for the foreseeable future. I recently bought a house through 2 years of investing in stocks and i count this as my “smart/safe” investment.
It literally isn't. You can put your money in an ISA or whatever the US equivalent is and make more in interest than inflation is right now. You can invest in property, or the stock market, or gilts all of which will get you above inflation returns. Real money will always exist I can guarantee you that. Crypto will never replace banks and payment providers such as visa MasterCard and PayPal, it just won't happen. Even if it did, and some random crypto becomes the main currency - you think there won't be inflation anymore? You think nobody will sell out of them at currency back to real money? Life is competitive. It takes hard graft to get ahead - or grift, and that's what crypto is, stealing money from idiots. So I'm afraid your view is completely wrong. I hope it doesn't end up costing you too much. If your one of the grifters who makes a coin, shills it and dumps it then shame on you for being a prick.
I have MSTR, RIOT and MARA. My ISA doesnt have Bitcoin ETFs
What's the best way to get exposure to Bitcoin via a UK Stocks and Shares ISA? Is it only MicroStrategy?
I'm in a similar position. My dad has had £10k in an isa for ten years, it's made £10 interest in that time and lost at least 40% of its purchasing power. I warned him when covid hit that he needs to reinvest, I didn't even care if he moved to btc or something else, I just knew keeping it in a sterling ISA account is the worst place. I suggested mixing it up between gold, index funds, government bonds and bitcoin. He did invest some other savings into gold...but only because I hassled him into it....he is up now on that investment. But he refuses to touch the ISA, says he wants to leave it to me when he passes. I don't need his 10k and by the time he does pass it will be nearly worthless. I told him to just cash it in and spend it on himself. He just says "I don't trust Bitcoin" when asked why....he doesn't know why. He's never looked into it and bases it all on a feeling. You can't make people understand something they don't want to understand.
I bought Mstr through my stocks and shares isa with my bank and had to fill in an American application type of thing in order to get it, wasn’t much to fill in but was an a80 form or something… So probably possible through your banks ISA jf you have one I’ll look into it!
I'd disagree that it's being used as a *speculative* asset, it's being used as an *asset*, which is fine. Money is a way to transfer value from one person to another, so is bitcoin, it doesn't mean that I send my life savings every week. Compared to the amount of savings you have, how much as a percentage do you actually move about on a monthly basis? I bet it's not more than a few percent, and you likely keep your savings away from your daily spending account. Is my pension a speculative asset? Is my ISA? Most people treat these as some form of long term savings, which is what many of us do with bitcoin. I haven't take out money from my pension ever, and only once from my ISA, I only add to them monthly. I don't understand why people get upset that bitcoin isn't being used by everyone daily, it's there when I need it, and I have spent it on many occasions, I just choose not to because I have my wages paid in a FIAT currency that is much more readily accepted, my excess fiat is either saved in my ISA, or converted to bitcoin.
Whilst it's true that the 10% gains is reliable it is still not enough to keep up with the crazy inflation rate that the world has to put up with as well as debasement of fiat currencies. There is nothing more sad than seeing people forcing to sacrifice their 10% gains from their pensions, ISA, IRA etc to put food, rent/mortgages, utility bills etc on the table at the present time making ends meet resulting their retirement plan going to shit whilst watching the prices of products rising beyond comprehension. People cannot wait 50 years unfortunately and I don't blame them.
Come on Blackrock, get it in my tax free ISA please...
That sounds really good. Although I bet you wish you didn't have to wait till retirement to get access to it. We get something similar to the 401k with employer contributions here, generally they'll match what you put into your pension. I think the US's sound more generous, if your in the right company. The ISA's I referred to can be accessed whenever (t&c's on some). If your rich enough after paying the taxes... have at it!
you need to qualify for mifid professional client you cant buy bitcoin in an ISA except by buying bitcoin related companies which are prohibited to keep you tax free for instance MSTR premiums pay your % gains to HRMC
If it is indeed nonsense as you say, please link me to an ISA that you can buy bitcoin in.
See in the UK, we have ISA's. Where you can put £20k a year and either invest or interest on it. It's completely tax free, no dividends/capital gains/income. Every year, add another £20k. They only care about what you deposit into the ISA that year, not what it grows/gains. That's around $25k. Probably one of the best wealth building tools in the world really, for the average person.
Dude, take the lesson from your 30k loss. I can't believe that all of your savings are in crypto. That is crazy. Diversify. De-risk. Take 20k out of that shit now and put it into something less volatile. Get a stocks and shares ISA or something. A guaranteed 5-7% on 20k, plus the knowledge that you aren't gonna wake up tomorrow to 0 savings, is well worth it.
My dad told me the same thing and I ignored him. He's had his life savings in an ISA making 0% interest a year and lost around 25% of its purchasing power in a decade and he is considering cashing out to live on. Meanwhile if he put his money into btc when I first told him about it he would have about 300k now Last person I'd listen to for investment advice.
You are buying in at the top of a cycle - it's gone up massively due to fear of missing out, greed, and desperation of people struggling with inflation and feeling they have no control and are unable to achieve their goals financially. When it starts to tank, it will drop like a stone, and you will be waiting years for it to recover - most of these coins / tokens will go to zero and disappear, to be replaced by a load of new ones on the next cycle. My advice - sell it all and put your money in a proper financial institution, like an ISA in the UK or tax exempt account in the US. These can be straight cash or investment vehicles that allow you to invest in the stock market. Don't buy Tesla or any other individual stock that has done really well recently.
6 months income in FIAT limited withdrawal ISA. 1 months pay in cash acc. 5 oz of gold (bought my first krugerrand at 15 from 2/3 years of selling sweets at school) for sentimental reasons. EVERYTHING ELSE is split between BTC and my home. No pension everything in BTC.
If BTC is 100k, that's 500k, 3% of that is only 15k. Dreaming of you think you can just quit your job and live off that. I would keep working probably keep 1 or 2 BTC in cold storage then sell 20k a year to put into an ISA (ROTH in US) for retirement.
HMRC sees all! If you use a CEX, the exchange might report your sale to cash especially if this is not usual activity for you. Your bank might report unusual activity with an influx of cash or even block it until you fill in a form explaining where it all came from. After that, yes you can add to ISA or pensions to get a tax break, but one way or another it is very likely govt is going to find out.
I would putting most into a junior stocks and shares ISA. Index funds. Not into a savings account. After 10 years, you will see a lot greater returns doing it this way. Just make sure you educate them on money, or they’ll blow it all when they turn 18. And yes why not put a bit into bitcoin every month. I wouldn’t put all your money into it though
Apparently sp500 is average 10 % per year. If you invest $250 a month in 20 years you would have 150k tax free if from a ISA.
I’ve done this a bit with stocks in my ISA. Worked for a bit but then there would be a event I would miss and I would have been better off just holding the stock. Now I just Hodl bitcoin, stocks and index funds. Buy and forget till I need it or hopefully early retirement.
I got grief for suggesting a small allocation to bitcoin to a guy on an investing sub who was maxing out credit cards to try to fill his annual ISA allowance.
Though if we sell any of our crypto and make more than £3K in a year, we will owe 10 or 20% of it to HMRC before I can put any of it into an ISA...
It does matter, if you're saving less than £20k/year, the ISA is a big win when you come to withdrawal it. Above £20k and yes, a savings account is not gonna match inflation right now. You only get £3,000/year tax free crypto to fiat in the UK. You'd pay a lot of tax on a withdrawal for a house.
I'll be doing the same, mainly for tax reasons. I have an amount of BTC in a self-custody, but if I ever need to sell, capital gains tax would be a pain. I'm in the UK, and here we can't hold either bitcoin or the ETFs in a tax-advantaged wrapper (ISA/SIPP), but we *can* hold *equities* in such a wrapper. MSTR is the obvious one, but coingecko has a handy list of other players: https://www.coingecko.com/en/public-companies-bitcoin
Don't buy...put your fiat into a cash ISA and make 5% Then watch its value diminish by 10% each year due to inflation.
Some people may just not be knowledgeable enough to use self-custody, and for such people letting the likes of BlackRock secure it may be the safest option. E.g. I wouldn't trust my elderly parents to not fall victim to some phishing scam and give up their seed words. Hell, just hang around this sub for a while and you'll see people losing their seed to malware or fake websites/emails regularly. Aside from security though, ETFs can often be held inside a tax-advantaged wrapper (IRA/401K maybe?). I'm in the UK, and unable access the ETFs in our equivalent wrappers (ISA/SIPP), so I'm comfortable with BTC in self custody, but I may also add some MSTR/MARA for the tax advantages.
As a UK investor, I'm slowly moving out of my BTC holdings and buying more MSTR in my SIPP and ISA. I don't want to be giving away 18%-24% of my profits in CGT to this Labour Govt. I'd prefer to put the money in a BTC ETF but that's not possible for UK retail investors at the moment. So for me I'm going all in on MSTR, but being very vigilant to jump out if the BTC crashes for any reason. I will still keep a certain amount in BTC in the hope future govts decide to tax it as a currency, ie. 0% CGT
That's what I was thinking. As I would invest in one if could wrap it in ISA
There are no bitcoin etfs in the uk. Are you buying US ones in your ISA?
just a couple of points from someone in the UK: pros of etf are being able to wrap it in a tax stocks and shares account called an ISA which avoids tax on gains pros of bitcoin, you can instantly sell it and move it around without waiting on your broker to take the action, and you can easily trade out of hours
Congrats from UK where capital gains is 24% and ETF not allowed in ISA tax fee allowance or pension.
Yeah, I’m just jealous that I can’t get mine through a tax-free ISA in the UK 😭
They’re not talking to you because you sound insufferable. I don’t ’beg’ my renting friends to buy a property or recommend an ISA for them to start paying into… I also don’t force my crypto investments down their throat…
From the UK perspective, the big advantage is being able to hold MSTR in a tax-exempt wrapper (ISA or SIPP). I still hold most of my BTC in self-custody, but that attracts capital gains tax if I ever need to sell. The UK gov won't let us buy the ETFs (or equivalent) in such a wrapper, but US equities *are* allowed. It's not ideal, but it's the only tax-free option available as things stand.
Tax advantage account in non-US (MSTR is one of the options to invest in BTC proxy in ISA account other than miners)
No, I think its weird to shill investments to family or friends. I simply tell them what I have done, similar to how I tell them my pension contribution %'s and ISA's etc. People are adults, they can decide what to invest in themselves. BTC is still speculative despite how well it's done in reality. It could crash and burn tomorrow just like any stock in theory, why would I want that hanging over my head if family lose money. Educate and let them make decisions themselves.
That’s a risky strategy. Look at what Trump is doing, split what you have into a tax free trading account, in uk it’s called a trading ISA then go with a bitcoin company like microstrategy. This way if Trump rugs retail crypto, you haven’t lost it all
No. I'd like to be.... Let's face it my ISA gives me 2.75 tax free a year.. if I had it in bitcoin I'd have doubled it in the last three years .... As for taxes the government is at war with us. So they get the middle finger As for shares, they provide dividends that help pay for the bitcoin purchases. I don't even think about them. They're just there.... Back in the day a guy who worked for a swiss bank figured out how much they were worth and it really didn't bother me They're also my hodl forever thing..... I've never sold a share unless there's been a takeover.... I've thought about selling harder assets to put into Bitcoin.. One of my mentors says sell everything and get that into Bitcoin... He gets it....
Is a bank worth 100% of its cash and assets, or a multiple on what it can do with the money and influence in the future? Same for MSTR. They are becoming a bitcoin bank/institution, and the value is based on what people think they can do with their holdings (which should only really go up in value over the long term). Is 3x correct? Who knows, but they are the first to try this, and nobody can truly copy them, so people seem hopeful it is a winning strategy. And they are very clear on strategy, buy more bitcoin, never sell bitcoin. They are heading towards 4-5% of global supply ownership. If you are bullish on Bitcoin then you have to think they could be a juggernaut in the space in the future. Also, for me in the UK, any bitcoin profit has a 24% Capital Gains tax rate, so buying MSTR inside an ISA means any profit I get is exempt, so that inflates it immediately in worth for a lot of people.
Can you elaborate for a non US person please? I assume the IRA is a type of investing account with little to no gain tax (same as ISA in the UK). And is FBTC a Bitcoin ETF that you can buy via your IRA?? If that's the case, good shout! I'd do the same if only we have a BTC ETF in the UK :/
Swapping is the same as selling to cash and then buying the new coin with that cash... at least as far as the eyes of the law. Saying "that's impossible" or "that's unfair" won't matter. If your trade is a taxable event then you owe tax and you need to take that into account. It's no different with stocks (unless you have an ISA). Beware wash trades and day trading if you are new, don't understand tax and don't understand the consequences. If you make a big win, then trade it for something that's a big loss, you will still owe tax on that big win. YOU are responsible for your actions and the consequences.
Yeah I'm thinking of getting MSTR in an ISA , but certainly never to replace just buying BTC. I don't fully understand the MSTR thing and how they can survive the 2026/7 bear market if it is bad, I get the feel of a house of cards. Could be wrong though but I'd have to do some research to convince myself it isn't, whereas Bitcoin convinced me years ago and does not rely on leverage, borrowing, debt, smoke and mirrors etc, etc. BTW CGT is 24%, and that is only on your earnings over £51k (as well as a £3k allowance)
UK investors love MSTR also as we can put it in a pension (SIPP) and get up to 45% back and no capital gains. We can't invest in any BTC ETFs in any format (investment, ISA, pension SIPP) from the UK. I suspect there are other countries with similar rules.
You can hold it in tax advantages ISA's, which is nice. Small allocation isn't a bad idea, especially if you have stocks and shares in the first place. If you're gonna invest in a company and you're also a Bitcoiner, surely they'd be first on the list?
Thinking back, at the $18-$20k point I was buying as much as I could justify. I even thought about emptying my Stocks and Shares ISA and dumping it in, but at that point it was too much of a risk. If we go back to $50k after say, $200k, I'll think about it but probably still won't do it.
You've a few different types of ISA but you need an investment ISA in which you can buy funds or shares in individual companies on most big platforms like Hargreaves Lansdown. You just sign up then search for what you want to buy. Search MSTR and you should find MicroStrategy. Because it's a US firm you'll need to compete a W-8BEN form but after that you're good to go.
> Obviously miles may vary depending on your current jurisdiction and country Sure, but we're talking about the UK, and and ISA is what you'd use for tax free gains in the UK, and a reason to buy a BTC ETF. > but in general, you won't have gains if your bank defaults and the government doesn't decide to bail it out. Agree. Although personally I'd take this risk to avoid the 24% capital gains tax we have.
> there is no reason to buy a Bitcoin ETF over real Bitcoin. You can buy a Bitcoin ETF in an ISA where the gains will be tax free.
I'm quite new to this side of the world, but I have an ISA, but aren't ISAs a collection of stocks rather than individual like MicroStrategy is. How would I buy individual microstrategy stock in my ISA? Sorry for the basic question, any help would be great. Thank you
The UK is it's second largest crypto market in the world. The reason most people will be doing this is because the UK government are starting to hammer capital gains taxes, which is an issue for those with the best performing asset of the past decade and a half. Retail investors have a tax efficient investment account called an ISA.. Anything held within it is shielded from capital gains tax. It would be ideal if Bitcoin was exempt from taxation or there was a Bitcoin ETFs however the UK have blocked retail investors from them. So one workaround is simply to buy shares in MicroStrategy. It's currently the most/ only tax efficient pro-crypto move to make.
Or you could invest in something like this in your ISA: [https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/c/coinshares-xbt-provider-ab-publ-bitcoin-t](https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/c/coinshares-xbt-provider-ab-publ-bitcoin-t)
My thoughts are the same re MSTR into the ISA as the best proxy for BTC tax free holdings.
As a Brit we have a tax free savings wrapper (ISA) where you can buys shares, etf's and cash with an annual purchase limit of 20k gbp but as there is no BTC etf here we can't use it for that. However, if it existed I would be maxing that tax free allowance it would be stupid not to.
I use a cold wallet (Trezor) to store the vast majority of my assets, mainly as a point of principle (nyknyc). However, if my elderly relatives ever wanted to get into BTC, I'd have no problem suggesting more traditional finance options. I've seen how easily they can be duped into installing malware, and I'd feel more comfortable knowing the likes of Blackrock were securing their assets. Also, I live in the UK, and if I ever need to sell, *capital gains tax* comes into play, as with most countries. Since I have a deep loathing of paperwork, and an even deeper loathing of tax bills, the thought of holding BTC in a CGT-protected wrapper like an ISA or SIPP (maybe IRA or 401K in the US?) is very appealing. In the UK, I can't access the ETFs through an ISA, so I've been considering MSTR as the next best option. Not ideal, but if it means I can avoid CGT, I'll take it.
Or you could just buy MSTR in a Trading 212 ISA
> What's your plan when Labour wrecks CGT. Plan "A" is to curl up into a ball and rock back and forth for an extended period of time, followed by multiple expletive-laden rants regarding the competence and parentage of Starmer & Reeves. I'm not hopeful that plan "A" will bring forth a positive solution. Plan "B" will start to take shape in a couple of weeks, but may involve shifting focus towards holding MSTR in an ISA, while hoping for a better long term solution.
It's a bit of a balancing act, admittedly. I always keep my BTC spending below my CGT threshold (UK), but that's become trickier recently as the government has reduced the threshold. I also keep an emergency fund in premium bonds (tax-exempt). That gets used before I risk triggering CGT, and gets moved into an ISA at the start of each tax year. Monthly bills are still taken care of by direct debit, so technically it's whatever's left which gets DCA'd into bitcoin.
No way to get BTC into an ISA in the UK however… unlike S&P
Seeing as Labour are going to wipe out allowances like this in the budget I spread bet my crypto liabilities (I do hold actual BTC and others but I'm not planning on selling that) as this is classed as gambling in the UK it is tax free (for now) I also buy shares in my ISA which is also tax free (for now) You should ask about this sort of stuff after the budget as Labour are going to decimate CGT and a lot of other stuff.
Slightly mixed feelings. Got a load of Bitcoin but had to sell my Cleanspark to open a position in it on my ISA and it's gone up 10% since I sold :(
In the UK we can't buy any Bitcoin ETFs and the govt is likely to increase capital gains tax soon. Buying MSTR and holding it in an ISA or SIPP is looking increasingly attractive.
I buy when I can, and I also use Revolut spare change x5. Straight into Bitcoin. Sweep amounts every so often to cold wallets. Also max out ISA and SIPP every year on MSTR.
However much of a maximalist you are, I think diversification will always be sensible. Start with cash on hand, either in a high interest saving account or cash ISA (in the UK, not sure what the equivalent is elsewhere). This should be enough of an emergency fund that you don't have to liquidate any investment positions just because something bad happens (broken boiler, ill health, car repairs, etc.). After that, an investment ISA (or whatever product gives you access to index funds where you are) is a good way to diversify. Of course, a pension product that generates compound interest should always take priority, but I see that as an entirely separate thing to investments. How you split your investments between say BTC / a.n.other crypto / index funds is down to your personal judgement, but I think a solid emergency fund is an essential first as it protects you from having to cash out your investments during terrible market conditions because you left yourself no alternative.
I will have to look into that, surely if it hits your bank you owe tax? Is there a time period that you have for it to go into an ISA before having to pay tax ? Cheers
Maybe try the trading view one.ig looks okay but you should do some research. If it goes into your bank and straight to an ISA then no tax.
So you're saying to convert to gbp and send it to an ISA that is 20k a year tax free allowance. What of i have to send the crypto gains to my current account bank first and then onto the ISA ?
You can open an ISA with up to £20 grand and not pay tax. You can also pay it into your private pension. Done a lot of research on it.
There's also people in some other countries that can put MSTR in tax advantaged wrappers as it's a normal NASDAQ-listed stock (e.g. Nippon ISA), unlike direct BTC.
Living in the UK, so your situation might be different, but one benefit of MSTR is it can be purchased in an ISA or SIPP. These product wrappers don't attract capital gains.
I'd advise buying MSTR in an ISA so you don't have to pay CGT on profit.
Not me, not available in the UK. If they can be purchased within a tax exempt ISA wrapper in the future then sure I will. This allows people in the UK to pay no CGT on investments within the wrapper. Our new government is likely to increase CGT which is making owning bitcoin very unattractive here in the UK relative to traditional investments that can be bought tax free within the wrapper. And no, I'm not moving to El Salvador rofl
Just a shame we're on track for a 40% capital gains tax if rumours are to be believed (up from 20% and our cgt allowance has been nuked already) Given that we can invest in traditional funds tax free through our ISA wrapper bitcoin needs to see significant gains to win out. Bitcoin is Great but Great Britain is not lol Time to emigrate haha
I don’t think I could’ve put in much better myself find somebody who is willing to sell and there are actually more people than you would think but the majority seem to want to hold onto it every last little .000 of BTC thinking it is going to shoot up in value But they don’t seem to realise they are far too late for that train. Everybody boarded years ago and although it goes up occasionally every now and then it drops more than it increases if you want in bitcoin to make money I don’t think it’s worth it you’re better off actually buying shares in, digital currency legitimately through stocks and shares ISA’s
Can't hold direct BTC in an ISA. You could move to a country that doesn't tax cryptocurrency gains (e.g. in Germany they're tax free if held for at least a year. Portugal, Malta, and Switzerland are also options). Closest proxy to BTC that can be held in an ISA is probably MSTR shares.
No tax if in pension funds. Both stocks and crypto gains would be taxed under the same capital gains tax if held outside of a pension/ISA fund.
I can also sell my tracker fund at any time. My provider has liquidity and just sends me the money instantly. It's within a UK ISA wrapper too, so entirely tax free. I appreciate you can't do this with individual stocks, but most private investors shouldn't be in individual stocks imho.
In an ideal world, you really want diversification. But, it needs to be diversification that suits your circumstances. I have ‘X’ cash on hand for emergencies, ‘Y’ invested in BTC, ‘Z’ monthly into a long term, compound interest pension product, ‘A’ into an IISA. When I started investing in BTC, I had a target in mind for how much I wanted to own and sit on. I made some sacrifices to my ISA in the short term to make that happen, but once I hit that target; I started splitting between more BTC and IISA. I’m a huge advocate for BTC, but depending on your age, how much you have to invest, any short-medium term financial goals etc. the amount you allocate to it needs to be an informed decision you make based on your own circumstances, and just because you have money in BTC doesn’t mean you can’t also have money elsewhere.
Buy order of a few k at $50k hit today. Couldn't have been happier! MSTR bought at $1k also for the ISA. Happy for another sale to come by!
First off, don't listen to Saylor unless you are god-awful rich. He isn't spending his money, he is spending *other people's money* and cashing out the stock appreciation on it. Be happy he is pumping BTC, but don't take the guys advice. If it were me, I'd diversify. BTC is all about timing and if you don't have a house, that would be something I'd look at using some of those funds. VTI 50%, BTC 40%, Emergency Cash 10% -- START PUTTING FUNDS IN A TAX ADVANTAGED ACCOUNT! ROTH IRA, NISA, ISA, etc -- whatever the account preference in your country.