ETP

QwertzOne

I remember solo mining about 5 BTC, when it was still very early and it was easy only for few months, before my GPU was too slow to mine without pool, but unfortunately I was young and relatively poor, so I sold it once it was worth about $200. I would be eventually rich, if I'd just hold, but at the time I was happy with smartphone as a kid, because normally I'd not be able to afford it. However, while such rare opportunities occur very rarely, there are still various opportunities. Tomorrow I'm going to buy some 5x MAG7 ETP, hold it at least until September and see what will happen. Maybe current trend will hold and I'll double my starting capital.

ts_wrathchild

My crystal ball says that the first 3 cycles had diminishing returns because we essentially fully saturated the "innovators" leg of a standard technology adoption curve. If you're here today you're an innovator, NOT an early adopter. The early adopters are the folks who load up their portfolio with ETP's. We're just starting phase 2 out of 5. IMO, the next 3 cycles are in reverse (in terms of percentage gains): 2025 compares to 2017, 2029 compares to 2013, 2033 hyperbitcoinization begins. Trustmebro™

kirtash93

>The Bitcoin Macro ETP offers dynamic exposure to BTC and **USDC**, utilizing key macroeconomic factors to optimize Bitcoin exposure and enhance long-term risk management. Not a fan of USDC exposure.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; 3iQ, a leading digital asset manager, has applied to launch North America's first Solana-based exchange-traded product (ETP) on the Toronto Stock Exchange. This initiative aims to provide both institutional and retail investors with a regulated and convenient way to gain exposure to Solana (SOL), a rapidly growing blockchain platform known for its high transaction speeds and scalability. The introduction of a Solana ETP is seen as a significant step towards the broader adoption of cryptocurrency assets in traditional financial markets, offering a familiar investment vehicle to a wider range of investors. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

KuciMane

Solana getting an ETP and then ETF in Canada how many buy signals do y’all need lol

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; The Hashgraph Association has launched the first Valour Hedera (HBAR) Exchange Traded Product (ETP) at the Frankfurt Stock Exchange. This marks a significant development in the crypto financial products space, offering investors a new way to gain exposure to Hedera Hashgraph's HBAR token through a regulated financial instrument. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

Qu33ph

That’s incalculable due to bitcoin volatility. I believe the worldwide ETP and ETF adoption will drive a supply crunch. Causing 100Kish bitcoin. At that point I’d be making so much I could just plug them in anyway and do what you’re saying. But fun fact for net metering you must use within x amount of power in a 12 month Period that you can sell back. Essentially I’d have to pay to run them for a year to even qualify for the power I can produce. Their rules not mine!

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Digital asset investment products saw over $1 billion in weekly inflows, with Ethereum (ETH) funds attracting $35.5 million, marking its largest intake since March. This surge in inflows reduced the month-to-date outflows to $11 million. The total value of digital asset exchange-traded products (ETP) reached $98.5 billion, with a 28% increase in weekly ETP trading volumes to $13.6 billion. Bitcoin ETPs led the inflows with $1 billion, while short Bitcoin positions saw outflows of $4.3 million, indicating a more positive market sentiment. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

MachaMacMorrigan

Well . . . Looks a lot better in the morning! "**100% physically backed by Bitcoin** (BTC), the largest cryptoasset by market cap, the 21Shares Bitcoin Core ETP (CBTC) tracks the performance of BTC. CBTC investors gain exposure to BTC through the market's most cost-efficient ETP, featuring management fees of 0.21%." 21Shares web page

uncapchad

My paranoid self says he already knows but is choosing to advance govt agenda. The fear message must be driven home and is so well entrenched now that you don't see Bitcoin news except from this angle. Even ETF/ETP gets but a glancing mention in the Finance section, never a headline. Read some proposal docs of what govt plans to do next in building up cryptocurrency regulation. Some proposals have merit but the majority are about even greater control and restrictions. They want to keep it away from retail, with most of it classified as gambling, keeping the bits they like squarely under govt surveillance with only institutions having access.

uncapchad

Not at this time. HMRC does not regard Bitcoin as safe and doesn't recognise it as either a currency or money when it comes to pensions. One ETP has just gone live but again, funds are not allowed to offer it. Can't buy it in a SIPP or ISA either. So you either maybe take a gamble and get exposure via MSTR (Microstrategy) which you can add to SIPPs and ISAs. MST has a large exposure to BTC but that doesn't guarantee the equity's performance. So best to read up on that first before making a decision. Otherwise you have to get a broker to invest in Wisdom Tree ETP for you or buy BTC yourself. Just again, be aware how HMRC treats Bitcoin from a tax perspective.

BarryTheBaptistAU

ETP's are NOT ETF's. DO NOT CONFUSE THE 2.

Sandcracka-

What's an ETP?

icey1899

Isn’t the London stock exchange starting a spot BTC ETP soon?

zenethics

MSTR will continue to outperform this cycle. 1. There are many entities whose charter precludes them investing in Bitcoin directly; but MSTR has an operating business and is not an ETP, so they are allowed to buy them (I think they will). 2. MSTR does not charge a fee like the ETFs do. 3. MSTR is mildly leveraged (but not so much that they are at risk if there is a big selloff). 4. Some platforms, like Vanguard, do not allow their clients to buy the Bitcoin ETFs (but they do allow them to buy MSTR). 5. MSTR owns 1% of all the Bitcoin that will ever exist and they keep buying more. 6. Michael Saylor (the former CEO of MSTR who still directs their strategy) has taken an approach of creating new shares and selling them when the stock price is overvalued relative to their Bitcoin holdings. This has worked out very well so far. 7. Maybe the dominating factor - MSTR is one of the easiest ways for tradfi to get options exposure to BTC. This has _tons_ of knock-on effects because the people selling the options have to take positions to hedge.

rtreffer

ETF(US) or ETP/ETN(EU). You want an 18 year safeguard. That will cost you less than 10% over these years. Yes, this has all the downsides of a fund managing the asset. But there is a good chance it will be around when you aren't, and all questions around inheritance are solved.

SaneLad

Look at the discount to NAV for the two products. Not all crypto ETPs track the price of the cryptocurrency equally well. The reasons are (lack of) trust in the manager, lack of redemption facilities, lack of liquidity. Also, ETPs can have different expense ratios. A staking ETP is likely to carry higher management fees, eating up some of the staking rewards.

blue1_

The two ETP by 21shares (staking and non-staking) have basically identical performance

blue1_

The two ETP by 21shares (staking and non-staking) have basically identical performance

1001000010000100100

UK ETP coming may 29 :))

BuffaloBrain884

The SEC ultimately has to approve the BTC spot ETF because they already approved a futures ETF not because of Grayscale's ETP. The SEC had no legal grounds for approving a future ETF and rejecting a spot ETF. They SEC also approved an ETH future ETF. So I imagine a lawsuit against the SEC would have the same result, the court will force the SEC to approve tge spot ETF for ETH.

uncapchad

BTC was easy because SEC tried to stop Grayscale's ETP but they had approved 2 others so they weren't being consistent in their application of their laws. We have to wait for SEC to explicitly say No to ETH and then they can also take them to court

GoodSamoSamo

This is incorrect. By design, DDOS needs to cover the physical links of 1/3+ stake weighted nodes for the network to stop confirming blocks. Targeting a single leader would only delay that leader. Your claim is wrong. Also, don't really care about Cardano. It's very clear that the market is starting to see ADA going nowhere anytime soon. ADA has been around for 8 YEARS and has nothing to show for it. 1 TPS, relatively weak TVL, virtually no DeFi activity, no NFT presence, terrible DEX volume, virtually no stablecoins (not even USDT or USDC), no institutional interest (Grayscale just removed them from their institutional product list and Coinshare Fund Flows show virtually no interest in ADA ETP products), no serious investors or influencers in crypto support it or care about it, etc. It's (incorrectly) taking an "academic" approach instead of the standard technology approach of "ship and iterate." The list goes on and on. Cardano is a garbage chain that is run by a sociopath and has a VC arm that is in charge of making ecosystem investments to attract builders - which it has failed at horribly.

GoodSamoSamo

Hard for a chain like Cardano to face an outages when it has no block demand and does sub 2 TPS. Like I said, if your chain isn't facing growing pains, your chain isn't growing. That's exactly whats going on with Cardano. ADA been around for 8 years, nothing to show for it. 1 TPS, relatively weak TVL, virtually no DeFi activity, no NFT presence, terrible DEX volume, virtually no stablecoins (not even USDT or USDC), no institutional interest (Grayscale just removed them from their institutional product list and Coinshare Fund Flows show virtually no interest in ADA ETP products), no serious investors or influencers in crypto support it or care about it, etc. The list goes on and on. Cardano is a garbage chain that is run by a sociopath and has a VC arm that is in charge of making ecosystem investments to attract builders - which it has failed horribly.

GoodSamoSamo

Hard for a chain like Cardano to face an outages when it has no block demand and does sub 2 TPS. Like I said, if your chain isn't facing growing pains, your chain isn't growing. That's exactly whats going on with Cardano. ADA been around for 8 years, nothing to show for it. 1 TPS, relatively weak TVL, virtually no DeFi activity, no NFT presence, terrible DEX volume, virtually no stablecoins (not even USDT or USDC), no institutional interest (Grayscale just removed them from their institutional product list and Coinshare Fund Flows show virtually no interest in ADA ETP products), no serious investors or influencers in crypto support it or care about it, etc. The list goes on and on. Cardano is a garbage chain that is run by a sociopath and has a VC arm that is in charge of making ecosystem investments to attract builders - which it has failed horribly.

Dehyak

Ah so they’re day trading ETP’s.. 😝

GoodSamoSamo

did you not read what I said? ADA falls in that 2016-2018 camp. People shitting on it because it actually sucks and has no usage. ADA been around for 8 years, nothing to show for it. 1 TPS, relatively weak TVL, virtually no DeFi activity, no NFT presence, terrible DEX volume, virtually no stablecoins (not even USDT or USDC), no institutional interest (Grayscale just removed them from their institutional product list and Coinshare Fund Flows show virtually no interest in ADA ETP products), no serious investors or influencers in crypto support it or care about it, etc. The list goes on and on. Cardano is a garbage chain that is run by a sociopath and has a VC arm that is in charge of making ecosystem investments to attract builders - which it has failed horribly.

ammo_john

I believe you have an ETN or ETP for bitcoin as well in Scandinavia? MSTR sounds quite risky for his retirement checks. Definitely don't keep it on exchanges or Conbase.

handgrip_shingle

It's a newer and much cheaper alternative to the [21Shares Bitcoin ETP](https://21shares.com/product/abtc) which has $776M AUM. ETF providers usually create a new cheaper fund, instead of lowering the fees on an existing ones. With time more and more funds should flow to the cheaper one.

OpheliaBSnyder

We already have a Ripple ETP in Europe. The US process is really on a case by case basis. Every coin will require it's own process and approach.

HanyRashwan

1. 21Shares has had a Ripple XRP ETP in Europe since I believe \~2020 and we've published a lot of research about Ripple and think global payments in general have a lot of problems. 2. Generally love the idea of tokenization. ETFs themselves are just a wrapper that replaced another wrapper called mutual funds. So it's likely that ETFs themselves will be replaced by a superior technology and my guess is tokenization. One thing that I would mention is I don't think tokenizing something brings it liquidity; that's not how it works. So the assets I'm most bullish on with respect to tokenization are ones where they already have *a lot* of volume/liquidity but sit on inefficient or imperfect infrastructure. 3. Conceptually, yes. But given some of the scalability issues, I wouldn't bet on this happening anytime soon. But I hope we get there.

Marian_and_Qpa

There is an ETP for cardano, but it does not matter cause its cardano

LitecoinCash

False, Moreover, the proposed notes are also required to hold at least 90% of bitcoin in an offline depositary wallet or *“subject to arrangements that achieve an equivalent outcome to cold storage”* Notably, the application process for these bitcoin-backed ETNs will kick off in the second quarter of the year, with the exact launch date to be confirmed subsequently. So these will be spot, backed by real bitcoin just like spot ETP in US.

cheapballpointpen

IMO if Vanguard weren’t against the BTC ETPs they would be neutral and let clients trade them like other securities. Vanguard went out of their way to make an exception and block the ETPs. Then on a practical level, it’s inconvenient for their clients to need to move from Vanguard to another broker. Rhetorically, how is it helpful for Vanguard to deliberately block the ETPs so their clients need to fill out transfer forms to switch brokers? I agree with you they’ll come around and might even offer an ETP of their own seeing the numbers BlackRock and Fidelity are doing. If I’ve heard right, the big ETF managers don’t like each other and Vanguard is missing out. For now they’re the nocoiners of their industry.

ts_wrathchild

Larry Fink and the men he golfs with. These are the people who run the country. These are the same people who brought us Bitcoin ETP’s. There will be no Bitcoin ban in the US, which effectively rules out our allies banning it as well. It’s a great thought experiment, but ultimately has the same chances of happening as WWIII, and in that case you won’t care what happens to Bitcoin because you’ll be dead.

HumidMind

Yes, that is how a single asset ETP works. iSLV and iGLD as well. Underlying asset changes price, ETP buys or sells to mirror. I bought 10 shares of BLK Mar 5 as ex date for div...Bullish af long term in my IRA. (disclosure, i trade in out w/ FBTC as they self custody, as all our long term HODL should be.)

P_e_a_s_h_o_o_t_e_r

1. Franklin Bitcoin ETF (Until Aug. 2 or $10 Billion) 2. Bitwise Bitcoin ETP Trust (For 6 Months or $1 Billion) 3. ARK 21Shares Bitcoin ETF (For 6 Months or $1 Billion) 4. Fidelity Wise Origin Bitcoin Trust (Until July 31) 5. Valkyrie Bitcoin Fund (For 3 Months) 6. Invesco Galaxy Bitcoin ETF (For 6 Months or $5 Billion) 7. Wisdomtree Bitcoin Trust (For 6 Months or $1 Billion) 8. iShares Bitcoin Trust (For 12 Months or $5 Billion) VanEck Bitcoin Trust and Grayscale Bitcoin Trust were the only 2 that didn't waiver any fees. So instead of revolutionary, VanEck is late to the game.

antiwrappingpaper

I think you replied to the wrong person or you're having trouble differentiating the acronym ETP from ECB.

bars2021

I agree, it foolish to run analysis on the "Bitcoin went up this much, so we should expect bitcoin to move up x amount this time". There is zero analysis on the **why**? For example, did we expect global shutdown right in the middle of our last bill run? Probably had something to do with the poor 3x ATH if you ask me. Are we taking into account 12 ETP providers and the 3.5 billion in outflows each and every day? Did we all expect the 69,420 sell off and will that still impact price action with continuous outflows? Is there a risk of global recession impacting this bull run?

ts_wrathchild

The largest and most feared financial regulatory body on the planet, hailing from the country that prints and controls the money of the world, *spent a decade and millions of dollars* looking for a reason why citizens shouldn't be able to trade Bitcoin within a TradFi ETP. They came up with nothing. They grasped at straws for 10 years and finally capitulated. They had no choice but to allow it because it doesn't break any rules, and once this cat is out of the bag, there is no going back in. It's done. Over. Bitcoin is now part of the Traditional financial system, like it or not. This of course signaled to everyone else in the world that they can safely put their money in without commiting a crime, and the SEC will provide oversight needed to seal the deal. Make no mistake, the approval of the spot Bitcoin ETF was the most important thing to happen to the network since genesis block. The new era awaits. Anyone in before January of 2024 has stories to tell their grandchildren.

ts_wrathchild

That giant wall of capital we’ve all been hearing about for years - its point of entry has been unsealed. And yes, the US SEC approving a spot Bitcoin ETF was the signal around the world that this wall of money can confidently be deployed. No other ETP on offer in years past actually mattered. If you’ve done the work, none of this should shock you.

C01n_sh1LL

What evidence do you have which links specific Bitcoin ETP fund managers to mining companies and cryptocurrency exchanges? Which mining companies and which exchanges are involved? You made specific truth claims, and it seems you are unable to back them up with facts or evidence. Nothing in your background, as you've described it, would give you any special knowledge of the backroom insider deals you are describing.

Ajax_ZQN

I get it in the sense that the bitcoin UX is a little rough around the edges and an ETP gives you an easier on and off ramp to BTC price exposure. But to me, the fag of having to learn how to use unchained, or decoy wallets, or multisigs, or wills that include access plans, or a dead man switch is all insignificant compared to the benefits of self custody. You do you, though.

Zanti9

TLDR; The Ethereum (ETH) exchange-traded fund (ETF) market is valued at $5.7 billion, with Europe holding an 81% majority share, as per a report by CoinGecko. The XBT Ethereum Tracker One (COINETH) is the largest Ethereum ETF globally, with almost $3.5 billion in assets. Europe dominates with the top 10 ETFs, while Canada's CI Galaxy Ethereum ETF (ETHX) and Europe's 21Shares Ethereum Staking ETP (AETH) are notable. The US lags due to the SEC's reluctance in approving spot ETH ETFs. Globally, there are 27 active Ethereum ETFs, mainly concentrated in futures contracts. The market saw significant growth during the 2021 crypto bull market, with new launches continuing in 2022 and 2023, including the Halogen Shariah Ethereum Fund (HALSETH) in Malaysia in 2024.

mybfbf

Should’ve bought the ETP

handgrip_shingle

21Shares Bitcoin Core ETP - 0.21% TER

Holicron78

There seems to be some options, but depending your situation it might be good to wait a bit for the dust to settle about fees. [https://blockworks.co/news/european-bitcoin-etf-fee-war](https://blockworks.co/news/european-bitcoin-etf-fee-war) [ETC Group Physical Bitcoin](https://www.boerse-frankfurt.de/en/etf/de000a27z304-etc-issuance-gmbh-0-000) (BTCE) [WisdomTree Physical Bitcoin](https://www.boerse-frankfurt.de/en/etf/wisdomtree-physical-bitcoin) (WBIT) [CoinShares Physical Bitcoin](https://www.boerse-frankfurt.de/en/etf/coinshares-physical-bitcoin) (BITC) [Fidelity Physical Bitcoin ETP](https://www.boerse-frankfurt.de/en/etf/fidelity-physical-bitcoin-etp) (FBTC)

SuccotashComplete

Most ETP’s are approved for most common derivatives. Bitcoin ETFs have not yet been , but plans for it are in the works. That being said I’m sure it’s possible to write a one-off contract that mimics a put, call, etc you just can’t sell them at a brokerage.

ts_wrathchild

The US government confiscating Bitcoin tied to US ETP's would be *maybe* the greatest black swan event this asset could ever experience. The second they take possession of the coin and it's demonstrated that not only does the network still eat blocks without missing a beat, but owning the coin doesn't give you any power over the network, every sovereign nation in the world would race to fill their coffers with it. The game theory at play here within the network has Bitcoin winning in every scenario.

ricozuri

The SEC can be very creative in getting delays. They consider BTC a commodity, ETH a security. Approval of BTC ETF (actually an ETP) does not guarantee anything for ETH or any other alts.

Perfect_Ability_1190

DeFi Technologies' subsidiary, Valour Inc., announces a new product offering launching a physically backed Exchange Traded Product (ETP) the Valour HBAR Staking ETP in collaboration with The Hashgraph Association (THA) – a Swiss-based independent and non-profit organization focused on empowering a digital future for all by leveraging Hedera's eco-friendly distributed ledger technology (DLT) that is governed by the world's leading organizations. This comes on the heels of a recent collaboration between Valour Inc. and Bitcoin Suisse to demonstrate Valour's dedication to expanding physically backed digital asset products and broadening market accessibility for cryptocurrencies to institutional investors on traditional exchanges like XETRA.

CapableHair429

BTW….an ETP …..HAS TO be further classified as either an ETF, ETC, or ETN….so, which is Bitcoin ETF then? (Hint…it’s in the title of the Exchange-Traded product. “Bitcoin ETF” just because the announcement on the SEC.GOV website keeps on saying that Bitcoin was approved as a product, doesn’t mean what you think it means. A ETP HAS TO BE one of 3 things, either an ETF, ETC, or ETN. Reading comprehension my guy….try it.

CapableHair429

That is exactly what I said, ya weirdo. An ETF is an ETP, but there are 3 different designations to an ETP…1) ETCs, 2) ETFs, and 3) ETNs….so an ETP is not necessarily an ETC. The SEC did ABSOLUTELY approve Bitcoin as an ETF, which means it is ALSO an approved Traded PRODUCT. Reading Comprehension my guy…read twice if you have to, before you respond and make yourself look foolish. 😊

TheMormonAthiest

No, you have it reversed. ETFs are also ETPs but an ETP is not an ETF and does not have the consumer protections that an ETF has as defined by the Investment Company Act of 1940 and as such these Bitcoin ETPs do not adhere to the same standards as an ETF and do not offer the consumer protections of ETFs. https://www.sec.gov/investment/laws-and-rules

ttterrana

stupid fuking retail praying to be ripped off by yet another ETP....morons

TheMoonMoth

Yup! But a couple distinctions: - Fidelity mining is a positive for the overall ecosystem. Mining secures on chain transactions and tx history. - Coins they successfully mine will not be added to their ETP, so don't expect price changes if Fidelity mines a block.

benborko

I am hoping to find someone doing a "deep dive" on these ETFs. I called Fidelity to ask about their ETF, and how I could find out the NAV - how much BTC was in a share. The rep said something about since it was a single asset ETF it wasn't really an "ETF" and was more like a trust, or, an "ETP". He said that he couldn't tell me how much BTC was in a share. He said something about it was a combination of 4 other Bitcoin products, and that Fidelity custodied it's own BTC. I think it's early in the game, but given how much money these firms are hoping to make on this, I would have thought the rep could have explained it better...or, maybe it doesn't make much sense/isn't simple...if anyone has some good references about this, please let me know! Even though I have a Fidelity account and they are waiving their fees for 6 months, it made me want to get a different one, or at least diversify. I have some GBTC in my IRA that I want to convert to save on fees, despite the discount (which was kind of great, I bought some at $10/share) at least they told you exactly how much BTC was represented in a share, whereas Fidelity couldn't or wouldn't tell me.

ttterrana

ETP's as stated, are 99% treasuries and 1% BTC.....look it up....Hedgefunds are shorting BTC mining stocks and treasuries....Ken Griffin said retail will be supporting treasuries and low and behold.... Citadelvis shorting all Retail 2 billion investment in BTC ETP's.....

hoyeay

ETP means Exhange-Traded Product. Which includes ETFs and ETNs.

JamesKrahula

21Shares doesn't even have a LTC ETP in the EU from what I can tell, but they do have ETH, Staked ETH, Bitcoin Cash, Fantom, Ripple, Decentraland. Some of those I put ahead of LTC, some of those I don't. I like LTC, but it seems all but forgotten today.

Chunky_Chum

GBTC charges 1.5% fee. Rest of the ETP's are in the 0.25% range. Cheaper to hodl elsewhere.

apkatt

Yeah, I asked in another ETF thread a couple of weeks ago why everyone keeps referring to it as such, and not an ETP – which it technically is.

ricozuri

The problem is that grandpa and anyone else buying into these ETFs is that they are not actually getting any actual Bitcoin. When they sell their ETF shares they will only get USD via TradFi. These ETFs are actually what Gensler calls an ETP — an Exchange Traded Property. Similar to a gold ETF, where you don’t actually get some shiny physical gold when you sell, only cash. Certainly it will give people exposure to BTC price action. People who would otherwise never venture into the real Wild West of crypto, but it’s not real Bitcoin. What is real, is that the actual Bitcoin will be bought, held, and sold, not by individuals, but by the likes of Blackrock, Fidelity, Ark, et al.

CapableHair429

I think you are confusing ETP’s with ETC’s. ETC’s are not necessarily trades funds, but rather financial instruments which don’t necessarily have to have backing. ETP’s are the main set of trades instruments; of which ETF’s, ETN’s, and ETC’s are PART OF. If you want to think of it in terms of food. Steak (ETF’s) are red meat, chicken (ETN’s) are poultry, and fish (ETC’s) is seafood….however they are all protein (ETP’s) So….did the SEC approve Bitcoin as an ETP? Yes…absolutely. Did they approve Bitcoin as an ETF? Yes…absolutely. They approved Bitcoin as an ETF; which by natural logic means it is ALSO an ETP. https://leverageshares.com/en/insights/what-is-the-difference-between-etf-and-etp/#:~:text=ETPs%20are%20a%20broader%20category,are%20a%20subset%20of%20ETPs.

Still-Music-5515

I actually expected the price to drop after the ETP approval. So guess for once I was correct. Bitcoin will be bitcoin. To much hype leading up to approval.

AdeptnessForsaken606

Selling stocks to pay your taxes is a whole other discussion. There would still be some reason to sell in March if you need to pay taxes by the April deadline and have no cash reserves. This sounds like an amateur small timer mentality though. If you owe more than $1000 in investment income taxes/year you have to pay ETP payments every quarter or pay interest penalties on your tax. What you heard was people taking profits while they were in the money because they are scared that they may not be able to take profits later. Poor decision IMO. I would rather sell at a loss to pad my gains. This talk of the economy is silly. Late 2023 and 2024 are off to bang. As interest rates come down the market will explode to new highs in 2024. Bitcoin will follow suit and we have a halving in April which will mean miners won't be getting any profit selling under 70-80k.

HSuke

What's wrong with ETP? They're not ETFs.

xabc8910

Ironic you keep pointing out others’ errors while repeatedly referencing “ETP”s lol. Your point is very valid though

twoforty_

I thought they were an ETP?

HSuke

Plenty of stupid people. I mean OP doesn't even understand that **every Bitcoin ETP has a different share price** and isn't fixed to 50k sats. They can't fix the price to 50k sats due to ETP premiums, discounts, and inefficiencies during the creation/redemption process.

HSuke

OP didn't do due diligence. They aren't tied to 50K sats, and each ETP has a different price. It's a floating number that will change over time due to ETP premiums, discounts, and administrative inefficiencies.

ATLAB

An ETP was approved. 

Desiato2112

Pretty sure. From the Fidelity site today: *"What is the Fidelity® Wise Origin® Bitcoin Fund?* *The Fidelity® Wise Origin® Bitcoin Fund (FBTC) is an* ***exchange-traded product*** *that seeks to track the performance of bitcoin. FBTC provides investors with the opportunity to gain exposure to the price of bitcoin in a familiar investment structure that passively invests in bitcoin. As an exchange-traded product, investors can purchase the fund through multiple account types, including brokerage, trust, and tax-advantaged accounts."* *"All ETFs are part of a broader category called exchange-traded products (ETPs), which are listed on an exchange and can be bought and sold during market hours like a stock. ETFs, the most common type of ETP, are governed by the Investment Company Act of 1940 and are pooled investment opportunities that typically include baskets of stocks, bonds, and other asset groups based on fund objectives.* ***FBTC is similar to an ETF*** *since FBTC trades on an exchange,* ***however****,* ***FBTC is an ETP*** *that holds 100% bitcoin and does not invest in securities; therefore, it is not subject to the Investment Company Act of 1940."* https://www.fidelity.com/etfs/fbtc

ts_wrathchild

This sub I swear... An ETF is a subcategory product under the larger ETP designation umbrella. Google. Please.

HSuke

How does an ETP continue to profit if the price of BTC continues to go up, and people buy too quickly, forcing the fund to have to buy more at worse prices? For example, let's say the market price of Bitcoin is $45k right now and a whale buys too much BTC, forcing the fund to buy more BTC at $47k. Wouldn't they lose money on that difference? It's too much of a difference for management fees to cover.

Desiato2112

Because it's not an ETF. It's an ETP. ETFs are a very specific kind of ETP. Price will not track BTC directly. Unfortunately, Fidelity chose not to broadcast this very clearly.

Deep-Seaweed6172

You can’t buy the ETFs approved in the US since they are currently US only if I got it correctly. Even before yesterday there were several spot BTC ETPs available for purchase. Generally speaking it makes more sense to buy BTC directly instead of using an investment product like an ETF or ETP. These ETFs in the US just mean you can buy the ETF instead of BTC directly. It‘s price will change accordingly with real BTCs in your crypto wallet. The only real advantage for the ETFs is that institutional investors and large funds are not allowed to buy BTC directly. They are only allowed to invest through such products like ETFs. As an individual it‘s most of the times cheaper to buy BTC directly and store it in your wallet or (for a beginner) to store it on an exchange like Coinbase.

ts_wrathchild

An ETF (exchange traded fund) is an ETP (exchange traded product). ETP is a broad term covering a few different financial products, one of which is your standard ETF.

JeremyBF

ETP (exchange traded product) is a more general term that includes ETFs (ET fund) and ETNs (ET note).

JaxonFlaxonWaxon2

What’s the difference between an ETP and ETF?

Due-Doughnut-7913

The announcement said that ETPs are approved. It did not say ETFs are approved. I wonder if that's going to delay the roll out because ETFs are a type of ETP, and I think the announcement is confusing. I also think it's on purpose because there are no accidents on these kind of announcements.

Spry_Fly

"While we approved the listing and trading of certain spot bitcoin ETP shares today, we did not approve or endorse bitcoin. Investors should remain cautious about the myriad risks associated with bitcoin and products whose value is tied to crypto." Well, that's one way to end the statement.

LeHolyGranade

You realize that ETF is a ETP?

kettu1

ETP is the blanket term that covers all exchange-traded products. Exchange-traded funds (ETF) is just one type of ETP. Other example would be exchange-traded notes (ETN) and exchange-traded commodities (ETC). Basically all the spot bitcoin products offered will work in the same way as ETFs work, that's why people talk about them as spot bitcoin ETFs, but you could also call them spot bitcoin ETPs without making any notable difference in what you're talking about.

Dont_Waver

ETP stands for "Exchange Traded Products". An ETF is a type of ETP.

DontTellSmokey

An ETF is an ETP, no?

BlockMeReddit

The statement only talks about ETP's, but y'all been screaming about ETFs, what gives?

FairPayForEmployees

Not all world has access to US ETF. Mostly professional/institutional investors. In the EU the layman would need a UCITS version. It will come (and is there as an ETP in a worse packaging). It just takes some time until low-cost ETP come to the EU but from today, it's set in stone.

GodBlessYouNow

The SEC has approved the listing and trading of a number of spot bitcoin exchange-traded product (ETP) shares. This decision was influenced by recent court rulings and changes in circumstances. The approval is specific to ETPs holding bitcoin and does not indicate the Commission's stance on other crypto assets or non-compliant crypto market participants. The SEC emphasizes the need for investor caution given bitcoin's speculative nature and its use in illicit activities.

29da65cff1fa

man, fuck the last 2 paragraphs of his statement: >Though we’re merit neutral, I’d note that the underlying assets in the metals ETPs have consumer and industrial uses, while in contrast bitcoin is primarily a speculative, volatile asset that’s also used for illicit activity including ransomware,[4] money laundering,[5] sanction evasion,[6] and terrorist financing.[7] >While we approved the listing and trading of certain spot bitcoin ETP shares today, we did not approve or endorse bitcoin. Investors should remain cautious about the myriad risks associated with bitcoin and products whose value is tied to crypto.[8]

SpC0d3r

1. What Happened Before: The Commission, which is like a group of important financial decision-makers, used to say no to the idea of Bitcoin ETPs. ETPs are like baskets of investments that can be traded easily, and in this case, they’re filled with Bitcoin. The Grayscale Bitcoin Trust wanted to turn into an ETP, but they were also told no. 2. Change in Decision: Recently, a court said that the Commission didn’t explain well enough why they said no to Grayscale’s ETP. So, they had to rethink their decision. 3. New Decision: The Commission decided to say yes to Bitcoin ETPs now. They looked at new information and thought it was the right thing to do.

plasmalightwave

Gensler dissing crypto in his [statement](https://www.sec.gov/news/statement/gensler-statement-spot-bitcoin-011023) "Though we’re merit neutral, I’d note that the underlying assets in the metals ETPs have consumer and industrial uses, while in contrast bitcoin is primarily a speculative, volatile asset that’s also used for illicit activity including ransomware,\[4\] money laundering,\[5\] sanction evasion,\[6\] and terrorist financing.\[7\] While we approved the listing and trading of certain spot bitcoin ETP shares today, we did not approve or endorse bitcoin. Investors should remain cautious about the myriad risks associated with bitcoin and products whose value is tied to crypto"

DiamondPup

> While we approved the listing and trading of certain spot bitcoin ETP shares today, we did not approve or endorse bitcoin. Lol this fucking guy

Pasukaru0

>While we approved the listing and trading of certain spot bitcoin ETP shares today, we did not approve or endorse bitcoin. Investors should remain cautious about the myriad risks associated with bitcoin and products whose value is tied to crypto.

Pasukaru0

>While we approved the listing and trading of certain spot bitcoin ETP shares today, we did not approve or endorse bitcoin. Investors should remain cautious about the myriad risks associated with bitcoin and products whose value is tied to crypto.

Dipluz

Whats the difference between ETF and ETP?

someoneSomewhere2973

In Europe, VanEck has a crypto leaders ETP with roughly 26% BTC, 26% ETF, 21% SOL, 10% ADA, 7% AVAX, 4% MATIC, 4% LINK, 2% LTC. Any chance of something similar in the US in the near future?

Rare-Ad6648

didnt understand the half cause im new and lost hahah but WOW fr. sounds planned and smart, wish u the best. and like i said, i'm new to the bitcoin business so idk what the future brings but ig you just convinced me to hold long term (im from germany and investing through ETP in BTC) cause i have to admit that i may be someone who saw/sees fast money in BTC oops

apkatt

A bit off topic, but shouldn't it be called a Bitcoin ETP, as in Exchange Traded Product, rather than Fund?

Burning_Okra

Personally I do both. MicroStrategy is a nice stock that follows Bitcoin, I also do the Microstrategy ETP which let's me profit (or lose) more. I'll always be tempted to do stocks, I might as well do one which is a proxy for something I trust will go up. Then there's my wallet etc. too for BTC, and my few other coins, which i know is genuinely mine, and under my control. If someone does hack my wallet, at least I've still got MicroStrategy