VOO

mustachechap

Which etf do you think will outperform VOO over the next 10 years,

Kent556

Beginner to investing wants to trade options. Yikes. 🤦🏼‍♂️ OP, you are not going to beat the S&P500. Continue to accumulate more shares of VOO and don’t touch it.

oprah_2024

all depends on risk tolerance. For the intolerant, yep just do VOO. For those seeking outperformance, more risk is needed

stuporman86

It’s more even for YTD / last 6 months, VOO outperforming in last 6 months

Efficient-Shallot684

Your numbers are WRONG. VXUS and VOO are only up 11.5% ytd.

MYNAMEISDANBITCH

I dead ass don’t even worry about what to buy anymore, you can have some random anomaly like nvidia making your shit go hyperbolic but if you just put VOO and forget your gonna be good

No_Quantity8794

The best US ETF is the one you don’t trade. 70% VOO, 30% QQQ Create strong password, forget about account and come back 5 years later. Repeat once every 5 years.

AgitatorSupreme

My goal has been to average $300/day with $60,000 capital. Normally, this wouldnt be very hard to do, maybe some quick option scalping here and there. I had a good system down. But now, with the fucking war, the sinking economy, dickhead trump doing dickhead things, I am just slowly leaking an average $200-300 a day in losses that I just cannot seem to avoid. Even VOO has been a slow fuckin drain. I’ve been foolishly trying to sell it when it starts dropping and buy back at a lower price but I sell and it bounces back and then I quick buy back in, it goes up some but then drops even lower than where it was before I sold it. On friday I waited from the low price when it shot back up and missed almost the entire run. I have lost my risk tolerance. Im too hands on but if I do nothing it keeps selling off. Every so often I buy an SPX option because I used to be good at making a quick hundred bucks but now, i will spot a nice juicy trend either up or down; I will buy in and as soon as I do there is a sharp reversal of like 50 cents or more. If I wait for it to reverse again then it doesnt and I lose like $300. When I cut my losses THEN it immediately goes back my way and I would have come out ahead. This has been the most fucked up consistent trend ever - the odds that this happens has to be 90%+, no question over 80%.

FR0ZENS0L1D

It’s top holding is Meta. However, a better measurement is the sum of its parts, it’s sector weights are 24% financials, 15% energy, 14% industrials, 14% consumer discretionary, 12% info Tech, 7% communication services… VOO is 38.7% info tech, 9.5% communication service, 9.29% healthcare… Its performs well and does it differently than VOO.

mustachechap

VOO is up 13.4% YTD VXUS 14.3% Personally I think diversifying away from the US is a bad move for a 10-15year time horizon. You could have gotten lucky earlier this year and made a nice swing trade with some emerging market ETFs or euro ETFs, but the for either of those has past. Invest in the US economy and thank me in 15 years.

wwb_99

Real question is how big is the roth vs the new cash? If the roth is enough that you are in good shape for your retirement plan, I would definitely consider placing some more concentrated bets here. With $100k you can diversify enough to derisk this significantly. I would spread the buys over six months and aim at 4-5 positions to keep that diversity. Being long in the right things has paid astronomically better than being in the VOO.

sunburn74

Lol. Say that to the guys who are laughing all the way to the bank and the tons of literature on the topic. I think I even remember Aswath Dandoran saying adding leverage to low volatility assets is totally fine. The only problem with 2x leverage ETFs are you may have to sit through drawdowns. However if its something you can just file away and not look at for 10 years, they should do very very well assuming your underlying asset is a low volatility asset like VTI or VOO.

Assanater601

Holy victim mentality. You blew up 60 small accounts gambling? Just invest in VOO with those 60 small accounts and you won’t be poor.

HardlyDecent

re: disclaimer: So you want *bad* advice...? Weird, but ok. Choose something besides VTI/VOO/VT, set, and forget.

Azurebbit

Oh come one, we all know. We just don't want to do it, because surely, I can beat VOO?

Remarkable_Evening43

VOO

trix_is_for_kids

While missing out on $160k in gains if he had put that $80k in VOO 8 years ago

BluePuts

Yeah but I can’t cum from VOO

djangojingle

You’d have more than double this if you just put this in VOO 8 years ago. Absolute moron.

Phareswheel68

Fr, imagine he just put it in VOO. 166% return if he bought exactly 8 years ago and only in lump sum.

Any-Tennis4658

I did better than you, by over a million dollars, literally just buying VOO lmao. This forum, actually regarded.

tizzy62

Could have been in VOO sitting on a million without the tax burden

NvizoN

It depends on what you're doing. Are you trading or investing? In both cases, you need to take into account your risk tolerance. If it's low, don't buy stocks in a volatile market like AI or other tech, just buy an ETF like VOO or SPY and leave it. If you want to day trade: don't. Statistically, you won't make money. Otherwise, research the stock. See if you believe in what they're doing. See if they have good numbers. See if they make sense (looking at you, SpaceX).

Time_Accountant_9445

VOO

Harp-Note

90% of my money goes into VOO/VXUS and that extra bit goes into my account for options. Mostly do earnings, sometimes scalping. Earnings are more fun though. Add money once a week, and if I blow up the port, I try it again the week after. It's been a while, but I finally blew up the port again lol.

music_is_gud

Maybe we should just VOO and chill lol

Cruian

I can argue that VT is actually riskier than VOO is: smaller caps and emerging markets.

mdn845

Yes. But, if you so, keep it simple & boring. Things like VOO, VT, VTI, VXUS. That’s my advice. Or, maybe better yet, go to a financial advisor who’s a fiduciary & who will consult for a fixed or hourly fee. That’s another very good option.

trix_is_for_kids

Unpopular opinion but at 24 go 100% VOO, or VT if you want a little more ‘safety’

Shredded__

At 24, you have LOTS of time and can really focus on building up your capital as high as possible early. For now your goal is to get as much into VOO or VTI as possible. The more money now, the more compounding happens over time. Consider using some momentum ETFs to build up that capital faster. SPMO, XMMO, IDMO (international). Also be more diversified by adding some small-cap value with AVUV and AVDV (international). For high growth, tech: VGT and/or QQQM. And a little SOXQ for extra semiconductors if you like. I'm in my 40s and I still hold all of these ETFs and a few others and rebalance them often.

Shredded__

AVUV is on sale right now. It's a great mix along with VOO, SPMO, and XMMO. From my research, small cap value beats small cap momentum. So AVUV instead of XSMO.

nutsbonkers

What's up! I would love to direct your attention to Ben Felix youtube channel. Essentially, there's a lot to investing, but it doesn't have to be difficult. Those are excellent options, I would recommend either VT or VTI or VOO, and just keep it simple. 100% total market stock index funds have beat every other strategy including adding 10% international and small cap for 30 year time horizon. Just do _not_ panic sell if and when your money evaporates by 60%, it will come back. It might take a decade even, but you _cannot know_ and if you take the loss, you'll lose out on recovery and never recover without substantial increase in saving. So yeah, keep it simple, wouldn't even bother with diversification unless its like 10% and just reallyy want to.

Harp-Note

VOO and VXUS specifically 👆 🤓

Harp-Note

That's what VOO is for. :dance:

maddogisnextdoor

Okay puts on VOO then

jcpopm

Cherry picking time periods is literally what moves the market up or down every second. If you aren't interested in buying bonds that doesn't mean that there is not a sizable amount of investors that are, and there are plenty of people approaching retirement that are not "VOO and chill" anymore.

B35TR3GARD5

Yeah, VOO baby, be chill

YourChildhood5762

No longer beating VOO but not far behind. We'll see how it stands come November after the prophesied market correction.

0nismic

I was initially planning on doing VOO + VXUS + QQQM, but I keep seeing people say to just stick to VT or VXUS/VTI 🥲 There’s a lot of conflicting recommendations

saryiahan

VOO and chill

9554503312

\> Looking back, I was basically doing the exact opposite of what I should have been doing. In the long run, the opposite strategy would have also lagger VOO because like 99.999+ pct of the public, you don’t know how to pick stocks. Picking stocks is hard work. Buffet, Munger (rip), Graham (rip), Lynch, Danoff, Vinik, and Dworsky are stock pickers who did the hard work and beat the S&P500. You crack the code and become a great stock picker, but meanwhile you are giving up years matching the S&P500. Maybe put it all in VOO, and do pretend portfolios with your system in progress and then put some real money into it when you are confident it works

jcpopm

"I own VOO so I'm dIveRsiFiEd"

kuedhel

I think it is dependent on how far OP is before or after retirement. If OP is about to retire and the shit hits the fan, he need to have safe investment portfoleo. He will be able to sell bonds and live of the proceeds while the stocks part of portfoleo rebounds. If OP is far from retirement and has income and has emergency cash, then, VOO.

music_is_gud

Leave this sub and VOO and chill if you wanna protect your money

Status-Put8162

I remember when the VOO was 200

Low_Plastic363

I know, but every doomer since 2022 has sat out massive gains thinking they knew which straw would finally break the camel's back. And even if it breaks, I'm in AAPL, GOOG, and VOO long. It'll be fine.

pr0prfkt

You’re not learning the real lesson. You can pick “some stocks” but the majority should be VOO or QQQM and call it a day. And everything should be set to automatic buys. Sell only when you have some urgent expense to pay for. If your stock picks are not conducive to this, don’t buy them to begin with. If you sell for any reason other than having an urgent expense to pay for, you’re likely just timing markets or panic selling.

Severe-Weekend-6664

Your Roth's 165% is impressive, but check whether that's a smaller balance in higher-risk positions versus a larger, diversified advisor account. Compare the advisor's 8% against something like VOO over the same 5 years before you pull the trigger.

sharp315

bond yield vs equities yield is not even close. VOO is doing 17% on the last 12 months alone. NASDAQ is averaging 15.9% over the last 5 years. even a value ETF like VTV is averaging 13.7% over the last 5 years inclusive of the dividend yield. if you think markets are going to tank then sure buy bonds - but there is no evidence of that happening. in fact, we are basically in the strongest bull market we have ever seen.

greenpride32

>Also, I've repeatedly been told that the S&P 500 tends to outperform other bits of the market over time, so I guess I'm wondering: do bonds become a better buy than VOO-type stocks when interest rates hit some kind of inflection point? The several decades long CAGR for SP500 (which is the underlying index for VOO) is about 10.4% with dividends reinvested, and about 7% without. We haven't see sustained interest rates in that range for a good 35-40 years. Bonds "win" when the stock market is flat or down for an extended period of time. For example in the 2000's decade, often referred to as lost decade, bonds would have had a better return. But that doesn't tell the entire story. If you were young, not needing investment money, you'd of course have been far better off accumulating index funds at the low (compare that to past decade when you are always chasing the price higher and higher). So "bonds better" is just in small windows that you wouldn't really know without benefit of hindsight. Bonds never win because they "did better"; it's only by default if the market underperforms. SP500 has positive years about 75% of the time. Also keep in mind that not everybony is 100% VOO/SP500. Some have a more conservative mix, which pushes long term expected return to something below that 7% or 10.4%. In this case, a bond yield pushing 5-6% is more attractive to this group because they are getting their gains without any market risk. I think a younger person should be growth focused, but a person nearing or in retirement can't afford potential SP500 drawdowns and should have a more conservative mix.

SnS2500

\> I know it's a new fund VRGG follows the same index as the US etf VONG, which has been around over 16 years. VONG has done considerably better than VTI and VOO the past decade, but considerably worse the past year... and about exactly the same the past six months. So in terms of newness it does have a track record, on the other hand it only trades an average of 1400 shares a day so not very popular. If VTI is your model, and VOO performs about the same, why not go with VUAG or VUAA, which trade 200,000+ shares a day?

Shredded__

Because stocks go up and down so much, controlled swing trading the stock will make you more than just buying and holding. It also manages risk. Before you buy an individual stock of Company-A, already have a plan of when you're going to sell it. When it hits +20% sell 20% of the shares immediately. This ensures you're walking away with profit. Set a trailing-stop on the remaining shares at +10%. A) If the remaining shares suddenly drop from the +20% to +10%, they're gone, and again you profit. B) If the remaining shares continue to rise +30%, move your trailing-stop up to +20%. Move up the trailing stop as it rises. Do this until they sell. On individual stocks, you have to be emotionless when they sell, regardless if it jumps up from there. DO NOT chase it FOMO'ing. Always dump the profits into a long term index fund similar to VOO, VTI, SPYM, etc. If you like the Company-A, repeat this, watch the charts over the next several weeks/ months for a dip in price that lasts for over 1-2 weeks or so. Watch for the RSI to be around ~35 or lower and buy back in. You can also check the MACD and 50 & 100-day moving averages. This entry point might be higher than your original trade, but again the share price doesn't matter, because you're working with percentages. I always stick to big names like the Mag 7. Companies that I don't mind holding for awhile.

novqnity

Thats what I did with AMD before it dropped back down to the $400s, but with VOO. it took over two months for AMD to get pass my sell price of $549, and ofc its even higher now.

strange_username58

The core bond idea first. A bond is basically an IOU with fixed payments. When new Treasuries pay more, older bonds paying less look worse, so their prices fall until their yield matches. Price and yield move in opposite directions, always. That is the whole seesaw. Why rising Treasury yields tend to push stocks down, through three channels: - Future profits get discounted more. A stock is worth the present value of its future earnings. When the safe rate rises, the discount rate rises, so those future dollars are worth less today. Growth stocks with earnings far in the future get hit hardest, which is why you hear "higher rates hurt tech." - Bonds become tougher competition. If a 10-year Treasury pays 2%, many investors will accept stock risk to earn more. If it pays 5% with no credit risk, some money rotates toward the sure thing. That rotation compresses what people will pay per dollar of earnings, so P/E ratios shrink even if earnings are fine. - Borrowing gets pricier. Companies refinance debt at higher cost, mortgages and credit cards bite consumers, spending slows, and expected earnings growth softens. On your "institutions want to keep the market healthy" point: they do want returns, but they cannot vote against arithmetic. A pension fund still has to discount future cash at the going rate, and it still compares a 5% risk-free yield against risky stocks. No amount of cheerleading overrides that math. Now the inflection point idea. There is no magic rate where bonds suddenly beat stocks. What matters is relative value and your time horizon. People sometimes compare the S&P 500's earnings yield (roughly the inverse of its P/E) against the 10-year Treasury yield. When Treasuries pay a lot relative to that, stocks look expensive by comparison, and expected stock returns over the next decade tend to be lower. But "tend to" is doing heavy lifting here. Rate timing is notoriously unreliable, and 2022 was a great warning: rates rose fast and both stocks and bonds fell, because existing bonds lost value too. On the S&P 500 outperforming: US large caps have had a terrific run, especially the last 10 to 15 years, which is why it feels like a law of nature. Over very long stretches stocks have beaten bonds, but not every stretch. There were whole decades where bonds kept up or won, and long periods where international stocks beat US stocks. That is the case for holding VXUS alongside VOO: diversification, not a prediction. Should a 36-year-old divert some investing money to bonds? I cannot answer that for you personally, but here is the framework most educators use. At your age with decades ahead, many investors hold mostly stocks because they are chasing long-term growth and can ride out volatility. Bonds are usually added to dampen the ride and to fund nearer-term goals, not to boost returns. Useful questions: how would you feel watching your portfolio drop 30 to 50% and staying invested, do you have an emergency fund and high-interest debt handled, and is any of this money needed within five years? Common bond building blocks people learn about are total US bond market funds, intermediate Treasuries, and TIPS or I Bonds for inflation protection, each with different tradeoffs around duration and inflation risk.

antagonist-ak

You need two more zeroes on that account before you even think about an advisor and even then it is a maybe. Ditch him and put it in VOO.

jcpopm

The "VOO and chill" crowd in shambles thinking tbey are diversified.

kdknitro

Man im.glad im not the only one that feels this way. I have a brokerage through truist and between lack luster performance during Covid and just continuing bad performance i feel I want to manage my own brokerage and get rid of the management fees and taxes I pay on capital gains... its just hard for me to make that leap. I know I could put it into VOO and let it ride and probably do better. I feel like thats what these companies bank on if the fear of loosing money.

saryiahan

VOO and chill

MarlonMcCree20

Well good thing the top 7 stocks are in VOO. And cool, stay out of the market if your risk tolerance says to do so.

MiddleAgedSponger

Strip out top 7 stocks out of VOO, then adjust for inflation and the market doesn't look as good. The market is being held up by the AI bubble. I have no idea when the bubble will finish inflating or pop, but like every other market mania back to tulips. The overbuild and mania will end, margins will get compressed, and the deflation won't be pretty.

MarlonMcCree20

People were saying that when he first took office. VOO was at $540 and it's at $707 now. The market will crash eventually, but the question is when. How high will it go before it crashes? That's why it's dangerous to get out of the market if you're relatively young. Close to retirement? Shit, I don't want anything to do with this market lol.

MarlonMcCree20

> the bubble will pop, give it a year max. I've been hearing this for a while. The market will crash eventually and you're going to say how right you were, but lets put it to the test. VOO is currently at $708 right now. Let's see what it gets to when it crashes. People were saying the same thing during elections.

JohnnyTreemain

wtf are you talking about. VOO is up 12% YTD

Low_Plastic363

Sold a bunch of CSPs for next Friday on GOOG, AAPL, PANW, CRWD, and VOO. If I'm going to be cash gang, I might as well collect some premium on stuff I'd be fine owning anyway.

Huge-Onion-6916

Because you will underperform VOO. Also 5% bond when real inflation is 10% may be a losing bet.

Maleficent_While2653

Using inflation to pay the debt is just another way of defaulting on the debt. VOO or VT are the real safe haven assets at this point. BTW, 5% yields are historically still pretty low. The bond market can still demand much more, and they probably will.

daygo449

Yeah. If you did index funds, you would have out performed what he managed. Honestly, I probably wouldn’t get an advisor until I hit around half a million. I would definitely get rid of them, look at something like VOO, and a bunch of other index funds to look at. Theres other funds people would suggest, but doing a mix of 60-80% in the S&P 500 and then looking at an international fin or some other mix will probably serve you well.

Electrical_Panda_326

Because that type of subs aren't really needed for 95% of people. VOO or some World Index and chill.

Barbie_and_KenM

What is even the point of this sub when this is the top answer to every single thread? Just shut the sub down at this point. There is no fruitful discussion besides "buy VOO".

NoPatient876

100k is chump change and you should be able to handle that. Put it into a VOO/VTI/VT and leave it alone. Generally speaking, advisor/management fees eat away at any outperformance that they manage achieve. But when they underperform the market, or when the market is down, you’re still paying fees on top of that

CalebVanPoneisen

Lmao 8% over 5 years is laughable. You lose to inflation alone. If you’d have just invested in VOO and reinvested all the dividends you’d be up 80%.

visionarymind

I think that it’s pretty insane that a phone costs more than two shares of VOO 😐

leaning_on_a_wheel

Buy VOO instead of this random assortment

SavorySushi88

Chat I think I may throw in the towel and just VOO and chill, I’m tired boss

95castles

$VOO

Harp-Note

Um, well, she's actually broke. Broker than me, and that's saying something (I cosplay as poor on here, most of my investment money goes into VOO. Don't tell!)

throwawayawayayayay

I tend to wait too long and then sell around 50%-60% down from peak. Ultimately that's why I opt to invest in VT/VTI/VOO instead, so that I can avoid having to dwell on making those kinds of decisions and feeling hindsight regret over having sold either too early or too late. Example: bought $5k of SQ (now XYZ) at $14, held through its high of around $275 and eventually sold around $120. I knew it was overpriced at $275 but got greedy thinking crypto speculation could drive it up more. Missed out on an extra $50k gain as a result.

Burning-Gundam

I lost money doing options, but not to this level. Now I stick to VOO and buy weekly fractional shares. I rarely look at the market now.

milkplantation

Yeah, nothing AI generated there. You know there are tools to check these things before you make yourself look silly, right? If you invested your emergency fund in the SP500 in March 2007, two years later at the bottom in March 2009 you would be down -26%. If you lump summed your emergency fund into VOO two years ago in September 2004 (+34.5%) and we saw a similar '08 style downturn, you would be down -22%. Now consider if you put that in short term treasuries, you would be up +9% for a staggering +31% difference. So, yeah. You're 0/2 here, mate. ;)

Puzzleheaded_Sun_146

VOO and chill. You’ve done a great job but relax from trading.. you lost your girl you lost a job you got other things to worry abt so take your mind off trading. VOO and chill forever. I read the little book of common sense investing, and it’s convinced me to not stress about trading because if you put your money in an index fund forever for 30+ years you will end up making a multi millions+ with time and no work required compared to trading everyday for 30+ years, fighting the market and becoming consumed and combating stress from highs and lows. Meanwhile the person who invested solely in an index fund has his money and is chilling. VOO and legit just chill.. That’s how I really see it though, if anyone has any advice on that please share 🙏🏼 But I feel bad for you bro keep your head up

ShotPay1291

Ig you are right. I will stick to the good old VOO and VXUS.

RevolutionCivil8049

VOO vs VTI isn't a concentration argument, those two track each other almost tick for tick. The real gap there is small caps dragging, not concentration paying off. Show me VT vs IOO with the exact dates and whether dividends are included, because that comparison flips depending on where you start.

HighFreqHustler

Start using etf like VOO and if you want more aggressive spmo, no options.

ShotPay1291

No just a colleague telling me how individual tech stocks had gained so much earlier this week and that he wouldn't do VOO and chill 

MediclePhysicist

There is a little bit of macroeconomics going on behind the scene here contributing to why things are down. We just got data showing inflation is higher than our government would like. In order to curb that, the fed raises interest rates which increases borrowing costs. Higher borrowing costs means people and companies are not taking out loans to buy houses or cars or expand. This causes prices to stop increasing in price so quickly, thus fighting inflation, but also means it's a not so booming economy. The data came out today which is why most sectors dropped. It will recover. I think VOO should dwarf your individual stock picks 80:20 or 90:10 as a general rule. However if your are in the first several years of your investment journey you can afford a little more risk, think 50:50 but then as you go, more should go into VOO. Some people do all VOO

Sufficient_Put4775

Just invest in VOO, it’s not fucking complicated https://preview.redd.it/5oovmnd68drh1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=91498aaa1fc664fdbfb087851ca2526431b657a3

Infamous_Ad8730

Actually "some" is, but most is in VT and VOO.

yuiop300

All you needed to do was to keep buying more in 2022 and HOLD. Peak of 2022 until now it’s still 71%. Just stop whatever you were doing and buy VOO and bag hold that.

Nervous-Tangerine638

Based on 6 months of living expenses. For me its $10k savings and $10k checking. I have 2 mortgages (1 rental) and a sizable portfolio. I invest passively through my 401k and I buy $150 VOO every week. If I go over 20k, I usually just buy more VOO or VXUS.

rumpler117

On individual stocks, I usually like to sell a portion equal to my initial investment +25-50% (depending on how risky it seems to me), then invest that amount in VTI or VOO.

kdizzle619

Brother, stop trading options. Just accumulate ETFs like VOO and hold until you retire. No point in trying to fix this problem by gambling more. Just start new and be consistent.

pk_12345

I hope you are not buying VTI or VOO or qqq. 

patentlypleasant

You are genuinely a gambling addict and need to just set up automatic transfers and investments into VOO and then delete your access from there

ShotPay1291

Btw I have been VOOing and chilling but once in a while will get FOMO. Today is one of those days. VOO and chill still valid, eh? 

Rational_Disconnect

VOO is up 76% over the past 5 years lmao

Three-Off-The-Tee

Bro, head up. Stay out of the casino. Put your money in an ETF like VOO and be a gentleman. Kind regards regard.

PurpleCableNetworker

If you just did VOO and chill you would have nearly doubled your money.

pr0prfkt

Sell asset when you have something urgent to pay for. If you pick things that need to be timed, you probably picked wrong to begin with. Spend less than you earn, have emergency fund, auto invest, don’t panic sell, do this forever. This is the power of VOO and chill. Harder to be sanguine with stock picks. Best of luck.

CG_throwback

You don’t want to hear this but VOO and chill. If it’s any consolation I wish I lost only 50k on my lifetime and that amount taught me enough to stop doing the mistakes I do. Words like make it back and so close to break even. Admit that you didn’t know what you were doing and that you will do better. Get a tattoo of this. When strangers lose money they are stupid when I lose money I have bad luck. If you don’t understand the sentence you losing money had nothing to do with luck. Sorry about your downfall I hope you get your health in order. Take a break. Until you’re ready to buy VOO and chill don’t come back. As we all love saying. No crying in the casino.

No_Resolution8762

I was in a similar position to you a few years ago. I was 100% on VOO. After studying bitcoin for months, I shifted 25% to it. Given your long time horizon, I recommend studying about bitcoin. But only invest in it after doing your due diligence and having strong conviction.