UST

CointestAdmin

#Bitcoin Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by bkcrypt0 which won 1st place in the Bitcoin Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > # Bitcoin is failing its original mission, and institutional interest is going to make things worse. > > **Background** > > Satoshi Nakamoto was a financial revolutionary out to counter the fiat money presses that destroy a currency's value with inflation (looking at you Turkey and the U.S.) The method—create a currency with a fixed supply, mined liked gold to make it scarce, and digitally transferable anywhere in the world between any parties. > > **Lack of Stability** > > Bitcoin can't be used as a global currency to replace fiat and eliminate politicized money printing because it has to hold its value steady over time. > > Why? > > People work for dollars, euros, yen, or yuan because there is relative stability in their paychecks from week to week. Their food, rent/mortgage, clothing, energy costs are also relatively stable (inflation is the cost for using that particular currency, but it beats a 50% drop in value over the course of a few months, and most inflation around the world isn't as bad as Turkey or Venezuela.) > > Imagine being paid a flat 1BTC / year for a particular job. But you live in the U.S. and the value of that BTC just dropped over the course of the year by 50%. Your lease is fixed over 12 months. Your food costs are the same or maybe even higher. Not only do you still get hit with local inflation, your buying power just dropped by half. > > This is why over $155B\* have flowed into stable coins like USDT, USDC, BUSD, UST, and DAI) > > **Lack of Accountability** > > The relatively anonymous transfer of value between parties was supposed to be a positive aspect of bitcoin. Your money, so do what you want with it. The problem is, there are a lot of other people that also want anonymity — human traffickers, dangerous drug smugglers, crime syndicates, tax evaders. Sure they can also use USD (and most of them do), but they are also traceable if they enter the global financial system. > > Making it easier for criminals to evade authorities makes everyone less safe. And sure, no one likes to pay taxes, but consider the alternative. Roads, schools, social services, some hospitals, police and fire departments, they all rely on taxes. > > **Lack of security** > > Unlike gold, which is pretty much indestructible, Bitcoin holdings depend on keeping seed phrases secure. If there were a house fire a gold bar might melt, but it can be reformed. A hardware wallet will be destroyed and any seed phrases stored on paper will be gone. That's part of gold's appeal as a store of value. > > Also, were there to be an internet outage in any widespread way, Bitcoin is useless as a transaction currency (part of the appeal of physical paper money and metal coins.) While unlikely, this scenario speaks to the lack of overall security in Bitcoin as a means of exchange (it has other benefits like cryptographic security, but its lack of physicality poses problems with public perception, and practical uses.) > > **Acts like fiat, moves like fiat . . .** > > Bitcoin remains highly correlated to traditional finance markets (two recent readings were the highest they've been -- see link below) and doesn't exactly act as a hedge against inflation when it plummets in the face of, well, high inflation. > > What this shows is that big money is controlling Bitcoin (and by association the rest of crypto) by reacting in the same risk-off reaction when inflation flares up. > > It goes something like this: > > * When inflation rises, the Fed tightens money supply to slow things down. > * Big money flees from riskier assets like company stock (they likely won't be as profitable in a high inflation world) > * Stock prices drop \[and here's the problem\] > * Money does not flow INTO crypto as a hedge against this risk, it also flees. > > **Conclusion** > > Fighting fiat money printing excesses was never going to be easy, but as with most revolutions, unintended consequences often derail the original vision. > > For one, government policies can avert the worst of political impulses. That doesn't require a wholesale financial market revolution. > > U.S. inflation has also been remarkably low for well over two decades. It was a once in a century global pandemic that forced a massive print run of dollars. > > Bitcoin has also become just another a plaything for the rich, a commodity to be bought and sold for profit rather than the antidote to centralized money creation. And because even larger stacks of fiat are on the sidelines waiting to jump in, volatility is going to get even worse with big swings as fund managers chase and take profits. > > None of this means Bitcoin has no value in global finance. It just means it isn't going to serve the purpose as originally intended. > > \------------------ > > * For Bitcoin correlation to stocks see: [https://seekingalpha.com/news/3784018-how-does-bitcoin-correlate-with-us-dollar-stocks-other-asset-classes](https://seekingalpha.com/news/3784018-how-does-bitcoin-correlate-with-us-dollar-stocks-other-asset-classes) > * Stablecoin totals for the five mentioned above were calculated on 1/11/21 from CoinMarketCap - [https://coinmarketcap.com/](https://coinmarketcap.com/) ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2lpo/top_10_bitcoin_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Bitcoin) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/uvunu3/britains_crypto_list_heres_who_to_watch/).

7101334

So I havent really been following the fine details of the LUNA meltdown I had a non-negligible amount of UST before the depeg and sold at 4% loss. I never held LUNA. Is there any reason (airdrops to UST holders, some tiny portion of LUNA 2.0 that I can immediately sell as a shitcoin) to keep the Terra Station app installed on my phone?

tendiesfortwo

> It was not too long ago that someone posted they were going to be aggressively shorting UST Link?

CointestAdmin

#Bitcoin Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by bkcrypt0 which won 1st place in the Bitcoin Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > # Bitcoin is failing its original mission, and institutional interest is going to make things worse. > > **Background** > > Satoshi Nakamoto was a financial revolutionary out to counter the fiat money presses that destroy a currency's value with inflation (looking at you Turkey and the U.S.) The method—create a currency with a fixed supply, mined liked gold to make it scarce, and digitally transferable anywhere in the world between any parties. > > **Lack of Stability** > > Bitcoin can't be used as a global currency to replace fiat and eliminate politicized money printing because it has to hold its value steady over time. > > Why? > > People work for dollars, euros, yen, or yuan because there is relative stability in their paychecks from week to week. Their food, rent/mortgage, clothing, energy costs are also relatively stable (inflation is the cost for using that particular currency, but it beats a 50% drop in value over the course of a few months, and most inflation around the world isn't as bad as Turkey or Venezuela.) > > Imagine being paid a flat 1BTC / year for a particular job. But you live in the U.S. and the value of that BTC just dropped over the course of the year by 50%. Your lease is fixed over 12 months. Your food costs are the same or maybe even higher. Not only do you still get hit with local inflation, your buying power just dropped by half. > > This is why over $155B\* have flowed into stable coins like USDT, USDC, BUSD, UST, and DAI) > > **Lack of Accountability** > > The relatively anonymous transfer of value between parties was supposed to be a positive aspect of bitcoin. Your money, so do what you want with it. The problem is, there are a lot of other people that also want anonymity — human traffickers, dangerous drug smugglers, crime syndicates, tax evaders. Sure they can also use USD (and most of them do), but they are also traceable if they enter the global financial system. > > Making it easier for criminals to evade authorities makes everyone less safe. And sure, no one likes to pay taxes, but consider the alternative. Roads, schools, social services, some hospitals, police and fire departments, they all rely on taxes. > > **Lack of security** > > Unlike gold, which is pretty much indestructible, Bitcoin holdings depend on keeping seed phrases secure. If there were a house fire a gold bar might melt, but it can be reformed. A hardware wallet will be destroyed and any seed phrases stored on paper will be gone. That's part of gold's appeal as a store of value. > > Also, were there to be an internet outage in any widespread way, Bitcoin is useless as a transaction currency (part of the appeal of physical paper money and metal coins.) While unlikely, this scenario speaks to the lack of overall security in Bitcoin as a means of exchange (it has other benefits like cryptographic security, but its lack of physicality poses problems with public perception, and practical uses.) > > **Acts like fiat, moves like fiat . . .** > > Bitcoin remains highly correlated to traditional finance markets (two recent readings were the highest they've been -- see link below) and doesn't exactly act as a hedge against inflation when it plummets in the face of, well, high inflation. > > What this shows is that big money is controlling Bitcoin (and by association the rest of crypto) by reacting in the same risk-off reaction when inflation flares up. > > It goes something like this: > > * When inflation rises, the Fed tightens money supply to slow things down. > * Big money flees from riskier assets like company stock (they likely won't be as profitable in a high inflation world) > * Stock prices drop \[and here's the problem\] > * Money does not flow INTO crypto as a hedge against this risk, it also flees. > > **Conclusion** > > Fighting fiat money printing excesses was never going to be easy, but as with most revolutions, unintended consequences often derail the original vision. > > For one, government policies can avert the worst of political impulses. That doesn't require a wholesale financial market revolution. > > U.S. inflation has also been remarkably low for well over two decades. It was a once in a century global pandemic that forced a massive print run of dollars. > > Bitcoin has also become just another a plaything for the rich, a commodity to be bought and sold for profit rather than the antidote to centralized money creation. And because even larger stacks of fiat are on the sidelines waiting to jump in, volatility is going to get even worse with big swings as fund managers chase and take profits. > > None of this means Bitcoin has no value in global finance. It just means it isn't going to serve the purpose as originally intended. > > \------------------ > > * For Bitcoin correlation to stocks see: [https://seekingalpha.com/news/3784018-how-does-bitcoin-correlate-with-us-dollar-stocks-other-asset-classes](https://seekingalpha.com/news/3784018-how-does-bitcoin-correlate-with-us-dollar-stocks-other-asset-classes) > * Stablecoin totals for the five mentioned above were calculated on 1/11/21 from CoinMarketCap - [https://coinmarketcap.com/](https://coinmarketcap.com/) ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2lpo/top_10_bitcoin_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Bitcoin) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/uvunu3/britains_crypto_list_heres_who_to_watch/).

DMugre

Yo, why don't people mention FRAX that much? I mean, that thing keeps pegged even though there's a bear market going on and it being similar to UST functionally.

20seh

I'm not sure. Took UST out of Anchor the 5th. Moved to Kucoin and converted on the 8th (no loss really). If I read correctly I only get UST if it was on Anchor (aUST) on the 7th. And I'm not expecting anything from the 2 LUNA or the 99998 I bought later on, haha.

CointestAdmin

#Terra Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by idevcg which won 1st place in the Terra Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > Terra's entire value proposition is being propped up by its stablecoin UST, and in particular, the Anchor protocol, which has been giving out a pretty stable return of 19.5-20.5% APR so far. > > Because of how high its promise of returns is (and not on a shitcoin whose value fluctuates wildly, the value is pegged to USD for Anchor/UST), it managed to attract a huge amount of capital into the ecosystem. > > But how would Terra fare when Anchor can no longer offer such a high rate of return, or worse, if the entire system collapses? > > After all, UST is just an algorithmic stablecoin; there's nothing special about it that cannot be replicated by other platforms and smart contracts. If there was no risk, why don't all the other L1s also create a similar system to Anchor UST and offer 20% APR? > > In reality, Anchor UST currently works almost like a sort of a ponzi. > > [to quote](https://twitter.com/0xhamz/status/1506372692005593090?s=21): > > When UST per LUNA is less than LUNA mkt price -- the system is insolvent > > UST liabilities equate to 45% of the current circulating LUNA market cap > > With rapid UST adoption --- this rising floor is a vector of vulnerability. > > UST are deposits that are redeemable for LUNA tokens > > The LUNA ecosystem pays depositors to come into the ecosystem > > LUNA is paying depositors the 19.5% APY on Anchor > > But depositors are not creating organic value for LUNA > > LUNA benefits from UST adoption via swap and other usage fees > > LUNA has a 6.7% stake rate > > Borrow at 19.5% and return 6.7% won't last forever > > > /quote > > edit: Additionally, Terra is planning to buy over 10 billion dollars of bitcoin; where will those funds come from? Will they be forced to sell Terra Luna to fund this purchase? If so, what effect will that sell pressure have on the price of Luna? ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2mzj/top_10_terra_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive##wiki_terra.28luna.29) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/uvunu3/britains_crypto_list_heres_who_to_watch/).

arBettor

I wish it would take only one more instance for people to understand. Canadian trucker donors and the entire country of Russia were recently targeted by political power being exerted on them via the financial system. But sceptics are missing the forest for the trees: all I hear is correlations, Tether, UST, & CBDCs. I'm afraid one more bail in won't move the needle for most people.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; DeFi insurance protocol InsurAce says it was well within its rights to reduce the claims period for people affected by the Terra USD (UST) depeg event from 15 days to seven days. It added it has already processed nearly all 173 submitted claims and will pay out $11 million. The move was controversial in the crypto community. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*

InsignificantOcelot

That’s sensible, but arguing for both FUD pieces isn’t inconsistent. Printed USDT could be unbacked and create liabilities in excess of their assets. Creating a shaky foundation. Redemptions spiking could be an early sign of a run, which could eventually knock the thing down. Not dissimilar to how UST had a spike in outflows with only minor peg effects a couple days before shit really hit the fan. https://www.nansen.ai/research/on-chain-forensics-demystifying-terrausd-de-peg

gotbeefpudding

I got in at 6 dollars and held it until 95 but then I made the mistake of keeping my gains in UST. Lol

CointestAdmin

#Terra Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by idevcg which won 1st place in the Terra Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > Terra's entire value proposition is being propped up by its stablecoin UST, and in particular, the Anchor protocol, which has been giving out a pretty stable return of 19.5-20.5% APR so far. > > Because of how high its promise of returns is (and not on a shitcoin whose value fluctuates wildly, the value is pegged to USD for Anchor/UST), it managed to attract a huge amount of capital into the ecosystem. > > But how would Terra fare when Anchor can no longer offer such a high rate of return, or worse, if the entire system collapses? > > After all, UST is just an algorithmic stablecoin; there's nothing special about it that cannot be replicated by other platforms and smart contracts. If there was no risk, why don't all the other L1s also create a similar system to Anchor UST and offer 20% APR? > > In reality, Anchor UST currently works almost like a sort of a ponzi. > > [to quote](https://twitter.com/0xhamz/status/1506372692005593090?s=21): > > When UST per LUNA is less than LUNA mkt price -- the system is insolvent > > UST liabilities equate to 45% of the current circulating LUNA market cap > > With rapid UST adoption --- this rising floor is a vector of vulnerability. > > UST are deposits that are redeemable for LUNA tokens > > The LUNA ecosystem pays depositors to come into the ecosystem > > LUNA is paying depositors the 19.5% APY on Anchor > > But depositors are not creating organic value for LUNA > > LUNA benefits from UST adoption via swap and other usage fees > > LUNA has a 6.7% stake rate > > Borrow at 19.5% and return 6.7% won't last forever > > > /quote > > edit: Additionally, Terra is planning to buy over 10 billion dollars of bitcoin; where will those funds come from? Will they be forced to sell Terra Luna to fund this purchase? If so, what effect will that sell pressure have on the price of Luna? ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2mzj/top_10_terra_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive##wiki_terra.28luna.29) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/uvunu3/britains_crypto_list_heres_who_to_watch/).

CointestAdmin

#Terra Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by jeff406 which won 2nd place in the Terra Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > Terra is built as a modular blockchain within the [Cosmos](https://cosmos.network/ecosystem/apps) ecosystem, which means it exists alongside several other great DeFi platforms. > > First and foremost, Terra is providing decentralized stablecoins at a time when we need it most. The threat of a [Tether collapse](https://www.wired.com/story/why-tethers-collapse-would-be-bad-for-cryptocurrencies/) is as prevalent as ever, and TerraUSD (UST)--one of Terra's decentralized stablecoin offerings--is serving as a crucial component in the risk-management process. In fact, major cryptocurrency exchange [Kucoin has been increasing the amount of UST pairs available](https://www.kucoin.com/news/en-ust-market-to-add-new-trading-pairs), enabling their users to wean off USDT while still making all the necessary trades. > > Another reason that traders may struggle to kick Tether to the curb is the desire for stablecoin yield-farming. Luckily, Terra's [Anchor Protocol](https://www.anchorprotocol.com/) allows users to earn 19.6% APY on their TerraUSD tokens, "powered by staking returns from multiple Proof of Stake blockchains." Users are also able to borrow TerraUSD by bonding assets such as ATOM, DOT, or ETH. > > Additionally, [Mirror Protocol](https://mirrorprotocol.app/#/trade) allows users to gain exposure to synthetic securities without the hurdles of traditional brokerages. > > Terra's ecosystem of financial tools provide a decentralized, 1:1 replacement for modern financial services. Beyond the stability that TerraUSD brings as a replacement to Tether, Terra's services can truly bring the benefits of modern financial products to unbanked individuals across the globe. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2mwy/top_10_terra_proarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive##wiki_terra.28luna.29) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

Living-Vegetable3389

I think everyone would be scared crapless to leave their stables as UST if a 2.0 version comes out, before the crash there were people going in at 0.6 on FB when it first crashed, I left a comment on saying it is not an investment if stable coin depegs and why would anyone invest in something like this which has a limit at 1

Connect-Current-80

No jail. He must be shot. Taken down. That would make an example for the new/old scammers. I understand why we would want him to suffer in jail, but let's be real; he stolen the money, so his jail be like a nice bedroom for some months/years. He needs to be taken down. I haven't lost anything in Luna/UST, quite the contriary, I earned from shorts. But this man needs to be taken down. Hate me all you like for this barbaric statement, but people died because of him. ​ This guy must be buried.

Y0rin

Jesus guys I know you hate Luna, but this is just bullshit. He is talking about TFL, his company, that holds quite a large amount of Luna and worked on the first projects on terra. He wants terra to be decentralized, but it can't be decentralized with a company owning a large part of the funds and development. The kill switch he talks about is a switch to burn all of TFLs assets, when the company is no longer needed, making Luna/UST decentralized. TL:DR , this has NOTHING to do with what eventually happened to Luna

Fresh-Chemical-9084

Devs of individual projects that were built on Terra, not the ones who designed UST

CointestAdmin

#Terra Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by idevcg which won 1st place in the Terra Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > Terra's entire value proposition is being propped up by its stablecoin UST, and in particular, the Anchor protocol, which has been giving out a pretty stable return of 19.5-20.5% APR so far. > > Because of how high its promise of returns is (and not on a shitcoin whose value fluctuates wildly, the value is pegged to USD for Anchor/UST), it managed to attract a huge amount of capital into the ecosystem. > > But how would Terra fare when Anchor can no longer offer such a high rate of return, or worse, if the entire system collapses? > > After all, UST is just an algorithmic stablecoin; there's nothing special about it that cannot be replicated by other platforms and smart contracts. If there was no risk, why don't all the other L1s also create a similar system to Anchor UST and offer 20% APR? > > In reality, Anchor UST currently works almost like a sort of a ponzi. > > [to quote](https://twitter.com/0xhamz/status/1506372692005593090?s=21): > > When UST per LUNA is less than LUNA mkt price -- the system is insolvent > > UST liabilities equate to 45% of the current circulating LUNA market cap > > With rapid UST adoption --- this rising floor is a vector of vulnerability. > > UST are deposits that are redeemable for LUNA tokens > > The LUNA ecosystem pays depositors to come into the ecosystem > > LUNA is paying depositors the 19.5% APY on Anchor > > But depositors are not creating organic value for LUNA > > LUNA benefits from UST adoption via swap and other usage fees > > LUNA has a 6.7% stake rate > > Borrow at 19.5% and return 6.7% won't last forever > > > /quote > > edit: Additionally, Terra is planning to buy over 10 billion dollars of bitcoin; where will those funds come from? Will they be forced to sell Terra Luna to fund this purchase? If so, what effect will that sell pressure have on the price of Luna? ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2mzj/top_10_terra_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive##wiki_terra.28luna.29) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/uvunu3/britains_crypto_list_heres_who_to_watch/).

CointestAdmin

#Terra Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by jeff406 which won 2nd place in the Terra Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > Terra is built as a modular blockchain within the [Cosmos](https://cosmos.network/ecosystem/apps) ecosystem, which means it exists alongside several other great DeFi platforms. > > First and foremost, Terra is providing decentralized stablecoins at a time when we need it most. The threat of a [Tether collapse](https://www.wired.com/story/why-tethers-collapse-would-be-bad-for-cryptocurrencies/) is as prevalent as ever, and TerraUSD (UST)--one of Terra's decentralized stablecoin offerings--is serving as a crucial component in the risk-management process. In fact, major cryptocurrency exchange [Kucoin has been increasing the amount of UST pairs available](https://www.kucoin.com/news/en-ust-market-to-add-new-trading-pairs), enabling their users to wean off USDT while still making all the necessary trades. > > Another reason that traders may struggle to kick Tether to the curb is the desire for stablecoin yield-farming. Luckily, Terra's [Anchor Protocol](https://www.anchorprotocol.com/) allows users to earn 19.6% APY on their TerraUSD tokens, "powered by staking returns from multiple Proof of Stake blockchains." Users are also able to borrow TerraUSD by bonding assets such as ATOM, DOT, or ETH. > > Additionally, [Mirror Protocol](https://mirrorprotocol.app/#/trade) allows users to gain exposure to synthetic securities without the hurdles of traditional brokerages. > > Terra's ecosystem of financial tools provide a decentralized, 1:1 replacement for modern financial services. Beyond the stability that TerraUSD brings as a replacement to Tether, Terra's services can truly bring the benefits of modern financial products to unbanked individuals across the globe. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2mwy/top_10_terra_proarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive##wiki_terra.28luna.29) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

Zeerats

I think UST might not make it...

CointestAdmin

#Terra Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by idevcg which won 1st place in the Terra Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > Terra's entire value proposition is being propped up by its stablecoin UST, and in particular, the Anchor protocol, which has been giving out a pretty stable return of 19.5-20.5% APR so far. > > Because of how high its promise of returns is (and not on a shitcoin whose value fluctuates wildly, the value is pegged to USD for Anchor/UST), it managed to attract a huge amount of capital into the ecosystem. > > But how would Terra fare when Anchor can no longer offer such a high rate of return, or worse, if the entire system collapses? > > After all, UST is just an algorithmic stablecoin; there's nothing special about it that cannot be replicated by other platforms and smart contracts. If there was no risk, why don't all the other L1s also create a similar system to Anchor UST and offer 20% APR? > > In reality, Anchor UST currently works almost like a sort of a ponzi. > > [to quote](https://twitter.com/0xhamz/status/1506372692005593090?s=21): > > When UST per LUNA is less than LUNA mkt price -- the system is insolvent > > UST liabilities equate to 45% of the current circulating LUNA market cap > > With rapid UST adoption --- this rising floor is a vector of vulnerability. > > UST are deposits that are redeemable for LUNA tokens > > The LUNA ecosystem pays depositors to come into the ecosystem > > LUNA is paying depositors the 19.5% APY on Anchor > > But depositors are not creating organic value for LUNA > > LUNA benefits from UST adoption via swap and other usage fees > > LUNA has a 6.7% stake rate > > Borrow at 19.5% and return 6.7% won't last forever > > > /quote > > edit: Additionally, Terra is planning to buy over 10 billion dollars of bitcoin; where will those funds come from? Will they be forced to sell Terra Luna to fund this purchase? If so, what effect will that sell pressure have on the price of Luna? ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2mzj/top_10_terra_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive##wiki_terra.28luna.29) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/uvunu3/britains_crypto_list_heres_who_to_watch/).

CointestAdmin

#Terra Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by jeff406 which won 2nd place in the Terra Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > Terra is built as a modular blockchain within the [Cosmos](https://cosmos.network/ecosystem/apps) ecosystem, which means it exists alongside several other great DeFi platforms. > > First and foremost, Terra is providing decentralized stablecoins at a time when we need it most. The threat of a [Tether collapse](https://www.wired.com/story/why-tethers-collapse-would-be-bad-for-cryptocurrencies/) is as prevalent as ever, and TerraUSD (UST)--one of Terra's decentralized stablecoin offerings--is serving as a crucial component in the risk-management process. In fact, major cryptocurrency exchange [Kucoin has been increasing the amount of UST pairs available](https://www.kucoin.com/news/en-ust-market-to-add-new-trading-pairs), enabling their users to wean off USDT while still making all the necessary trades. > > Another reason that traders may struggle to kick Tether to the curb is the desire for stablecoin yield-farming. Luckily, Terra's [Anchor Protocol](https://www.anchorprotocol.com/) allows users to earn 19.6% APY on their TerraUSD tokens, "powered by staking returns from multiple Proof of Stake blockchains." Users are also able to borrow TerraUSD by bonding assets such as ATOM, DOT, or ETH. > > Additionally, [Mirror Protocol](https://mirrorprotocol.app/#/trade) allows users to gain exposure to synthetic securities without the hurdles of traditional brokerages. > > Terra's ecosystem of financial tools provide a decentralized, 1:1 replacement for modern financial services. Beyond the stability that TerraUSD brings as a replacement to Tether, Terra's services can truly bring the benefits of modern financial products to unbanked individuals across the globe. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2mwy/top_10_terra_proarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive##wiki_terra.28luna.29) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

ArtyHobo

Snapshot just got taken after the vote closed on 27 so UST holders have to transfer their UST to Luna 2.0 if they want to receive whatever pitiful reimbursement they'll get for their not so stable coins

NorthNode22

Would be interesting to see some analysis on those who did not buy in to LUNA and UST. Why did they decide to avoid these tokens and protocols like Anchor?

CointestAdmin

#Terra Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by idevcg which won 1st place in the Terra Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > Terra's entire value proposition is being propped up by its stablecoin UST, and in particular, the Anchor protocol, which has been giving out a pretty stable return of 19.5-20.5% APR so far. > > Because of how high its promise of returns is (and not on a shitcoin whose value fluctuates wildly, the value is pegged to USD for Anchor/UST), it managed to attract a huge amount of capital into the ecosystem. > > But how would Terra fare when Anchor can no longer offer such a high rate of return, or worse, if the entire system collapses? > > After all, UST is just an algorithmic stablecoin; there's nothing special about it that cannot be replicated by other platforms and smart contracts. If there was no risk, why don't all the other L1s also create a similar system to Anchor UST and offer 20% APR? > > In reality, Anchor UST currently works almost like a sort of a ponzi. > > [to quote](https://twitter.com/0xhamz/status/1506372692005593090?s=21): > > When UST per LUNA is less than LUNA mkt price -- the system is insolvent > > UST liabilities equate to 45% of the current circulating LUNA market cap > > With rapid UST adoption --- this rising floor is a vector of vulnerability. > > UST are deposits that are redeemable for LUNA tokens > > The LUNA ecosystem pays depositors to come into the ecosystem > > LUNA is paying depositors the 19.5% APY on Anchor > > But depositors are not creating organic value for LUNA > > LUNA benefits from UST adoption via swap and other usage fees > > LUNA has a 6.7% stake rate > > Borrow at 19.5% and return 6.7% won't last forever > > > /quote > > edit: Additionally, Terra is planning to buy over 10 billion dollars of bitcoin; where will those funds come from? Will they be forced to sell Terra Luna to fund this purchase? If so, what effect will that sell pressure have on the price of Luna? ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2mzj/top_10_terra_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive##wiki_terra.28luna.29) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/uvunu3/britains_crypto_list_heres_who_to_watch/).

CointestAdmin

#Terra Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by jeff406 which won 2nd place in the Terra Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > Terra is built as a modular blockchain within the [Cosmos](https://cosmos.network/ecosystem/apps) ecosystem, which means it exists alongside several other great DeFi platforms. > > First and foremost, Terra is providing decentralized stablecoins at a time when we need it most. The threat of a [Tether collapse](https://www.wired.com/story/why-tethers-collapse-would-be-bad-for-cryptocurrencies/) is as prevalent as ever, and TerraUSD (UST)--one of Terra's decentralized stablecoin offerings--is serving as a crucial component in the risk-management process. In fact, major cryptocurrency exchange [Kucoin has been increasing the amount of UST pairs available](https://www.kucoin.com/news/en-ust-market-to-add-new-trading-pairs), enabling their users to wean off USDT while still making all the necessary trades. > > Another reason that traders may struggle to kick Tether to the curb is the desire for stablecoin yield-farming. Luckily, Terra's [Anchor Protocol](https://www.anchorprotocol.com/) allows users to earn 19.6% APY on their TerraUSD tokens, "powered by staking returns from multiple Proof of Stake blockchains." Users are also able to borrow TerraUSD by bonding assets such as ATOM, DOT, or ETH. > > Additionally, [Mirror Protocol](https://mirrorprotocol.app/#/trade) allows users to gain exposure to synthetic securities without the hurdles of traditional brokerages. > > Terra's ecosystem of financial tools provide a decentralized, 1:1 replacement for modern financial services. Beyond the stability that TerraUSD brings as a replacement to Tether, Terra's services can truly bring the benefits of modern financial products to unbanked individuals across the globe. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2mwy/top_10_terra_proarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive##wiki_terra.28luna.29) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

CointestAdmin

#Terra Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by idevcg which won 1st place in the Terra Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > Terra's entire value proposition is being propped up by its stablecoin UST, and in particular, the Anchor protocol, which has been giving out a pretty stable return of 19.5-20.5% APR so far. > > Because of how high its promise of returns is (and not on a shitcoin whose value fluctuates wildly, the value is pegged to USD for Anchor/UST), it managed to attract a huge amount of capital into the ecosystem. > > But how would Terra fare when Anchor can no longer offer such a high rate of return, or worse, if the entire system collapses? > > After all, UST is just an algorithmic stablecoin; there's nothing special about it that cannot be replicated by other platforms and smart contracts. If there was no risk, why don't all the other L1s also create a similar system to Anchor UST and offer 20% APR? > > In reality, Anchor UST currently works almost like a sort of a ponzi. > > [to quote](https://twitter.com/0xhamz/status/1506372692005593090?s=21): > > When UST per LUNA is less than LUNA mkt price -- the system is insolvent > > UST liabilities equate to 45% of the current circulating LUNA market cap > > With rapid UST adoption --- this rising floor is a vector of vulnerability. > > UST are deposits that are redeemable for LUNA tokens > > The LUNA ecosystem pays depositors to come into the ecosystem > > LUNA is paying depositors the 19.5% APY on Anchor > > But depositors are not creating organic value for LUNA > > LUNA benefits from UST adoption via swap and other usage fees > > LUNA has a 6.7% stake rate > > Borrow at 19.5% and return 6.7% won't last forever > > > /quote > > edit: Additionally, Terra is planning to buy over 10 billion dollars of bitcoin; where will those funds come from? Will they be forced to sell Terra Luna to fund this purchase? If so, what effect will that sell pressure have on the price of Luna? ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2mzj/top_10_terra_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive##wiki_terra.28luna.29) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/uvunu3/britains_crypto_list_heres_who_to_watch/).

CointestAdmin

#Bitcoin Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by bkcrypt0 which won 1st place in the Bitcoin Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > # Bitcoin is failing its original mission, and institutional interest is going to make things worse. > > **Background** > > Satoshi Nakamoto was a financial revolutionary out to counter the fiat money presses that destroy a currency's value with inflation (looking at you Turkey and the U.S.) The method—create a currency with a fixed supply, mined liked gold to make it scarce, and digitally transferable anywhere in the world between any parties. > > **Lack of Stability** > > Bitcoin can't be used as a global currency to replace fiat and eliminate politicized money printing because it has to hold its value steady over time. > > Why? > > People work for dollars, euros, yen, or yuan because there is relative stability in their paychecks from week to week. Their food, rent/mortgage, clothing, energy costs are also relatively stable (inflation is the cost for using that particular currency, but it beats a 50% drop in value over the course of a few months, and most inflation around the world isn't as bad as Turkey or Venezuela.) > > Imagine being paid a flat 1BTC / year for a particular job. But you live in the U.S. and the value of that BTC just dropped over the course of the year by 50%. Your lease is fixed over 12 months. Your food costs are the same or maybe even higher. Not only do you still get hit with local inflation, your buying power just dropped by half. > > This is why over $155B\* have flowed into stable coins like USDT, USDC, BUSD, UST, and DAI) > > **Lack of Accountability** > > The relatively anonymous transfer of value between parties was supposed to be a positive aspect of bitcoin. Your money, so do what you want with it. The problem is, there are a lot of other people that also want anonymity — human traffickers, dangerous drug smugglers, crime syndicates, tax evaders. Sure they can also use USD (and most of them do), but they are also traceable if they enter the global financial system. > > Making it easier for criminals to evade authorities makes everyone less safe. And sure, no one likes to pay taxes, but consider the alternative. Roads, schools, social services, some hospitals, police and fire departments, they all rely on taxes. > > **Lack of security** > > Unlike gold, which is pretty much indestructible, Bitcoin holdings depend on keeping seed phrases secure. If there were a house fire a gold bar might melt, but it can be reformed. A hardware wallet will be destroyed and any seed phrases stored on paper will be gone. That's part of gold's appeal as a store of value. > > Also, were there to be an internet outage in any widespread way, Bitcoin is useless as a transaction currency (part of the appeal of physical paper money and metal coins.) While unlikely, this scenario speaks to the lack of overall security in Bitcoin as a means of exchange (it has other benefits like cryptographic security, but its lack of physicality poses problems with public perception, and practical uses.) > > **Acts like fiat, moves like fiat . . .** > > Bitcoin remains highly correlated to traditional finance markets (two recent readings were the highest they've been -- see link below) and doesn't exactly act as a hedge against inflation when it plummets in the face of, well, high inflation. > > What this shows is that big money is controlling Bitcoin (and by association the rest of crypto) by reacting in the same risk-off reaction when inflation flares up. > > It goes something like this: > > * When inflation rises, the Fed tightens money supply to slow things down. > * Big money flees from riskier assets like company stock (they likely won't be as profitable in a high inflation world) > * Stock prices drop \[and here's the problem\] > * Money does not flow INTO crypto as a hedge against this risk, it also flees. > > **Conclusion** > > Fighting fiat money printing excesses was never going to be easy, but as with most revolutions, unintended consequences often derail the original vision. > > For one, government policies can avert the worst of political impulses. That doesn't require a wholesale financial market revolution. > > U.S. inflation has also been remarkably low for well over two decades. It was a once in a century global pandemic that forced a massive print run of dollars. > > Bitcoin has also become just another a plaything for the rich, a commodity to be bought and sold for profit rather than the antidote to centralized money creation. And because even larger stacks of fiat are on the sidelines waiting to jump in, volatility is going to get even worse with big swings as fund managers chase and take profits. > > None of this means Bitcoin has no value in global finance. It just means it isn't going to serve the purpose as originally intended. > > \------------------ > > * For Bitcoin correlation to stocks see: [https://seekingalpha.com/news/3784018-how-does-bitcoin-correlate-with-us-dollar-stocks-other-asset-classes](https://seekingalpha.com/news/3784018-how-does-bitcoin-correlate-with-us-dollar-stocks-other-asset-classes) > * Stablecoin totals for the five mentioned above were calculated on 1/11/21 from CoinMarketCap - [https://coinmarketcap.com/](https://coinmarketcap.com/) ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2lpo/top_10_bitcoin_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Bitcoin) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/uvunu3/britains_crypto_list_heres_who_to_watch/).

deusson

UST

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Nansen's research team has compiled an in-depth report on the UST de-peg, using on-chain evidence to dispel the myth of a single malicious attacker on Terra. A small number of players identified vulnerabilities early into the de-pegging process and moved to exploit these by withdrawing UST funds from the Anchor protocol and swapping significant amounts of UST to other stablecoins in Curve's liquidity pools. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*

The-Alcoholic-Seal

Unstable like UST?

Lee911123

Just a few months ago you had people shilling Anchor and UST, they’ve been very silent since. I’m also salty they talked shit about Yieldly (on Algo), since that was actually a legit staking platform.

kopisiutaidaily

Everyone should know it’s 20% because the founder boosted it with funds. Actual apy is around 8-12% depending on transaction volume. It was a marketing strategy to boost adoption of UST so that when exchanges starts listing pairs, people can use it like any other stablecoin but sadly we did not reach that stage.

ArtyHobo

So UST holders can bridge it over to luna 2.0 for the airdrop

Hank___Scorpio

These are the kind of posts that the naysayers look back on and say we fucking told you so when the SOL bagholders are shocked that nobody warned them and their investment went tits up. It was not too long ago that someone posted they were going to be aggressively shorting UST because they were convinced it would fail. They were downvoted into oblivion.

AdGlittering4282

What the fuck UST is still doing on binance us? This is a fucking clown shit show. Fuck. Fucking CZ.

Nooku

Each trade consist if a person selling, and a person buying. I'm curious who these people are who've been buying up UST from 0.15 all the way down to 0.03

outrider567

UST just continues to drop to new lows, only .03 now

DrunknSatoshi

UST doing UST thangs on the 24h

Full-Sound-6269

They will make UST 2.0 when there is enough capital in Luna 2.0, to rug pull it all again.

ioWxss6_bot

UST seems to be slowly dropping down.

big--if-true

You know Celsius is bankrupt from the UST / LUNA losses they had, when blockstream starts telling you to give them your money: https://twitter.com/adam3us/status/1529961209256083456

CointestAdmin

#Terra Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by idevcg which won 1st place in the Terra Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > Terra's entire value proposition is being propped up by its stablecoin UST, and in particular, the Anchor protocol, which has been giving out a pretty stable return of 19.5-20.5% APR so far. > > Because of how high its promise of returns is (and not on a shitcoin whose value fluctuates wildly, the value is pegged to USD for Anchor/UST), it managed to attract a huge amount of capital into the ecosystem. > > But how would Terra fare when Anchor can no longer offer such a high rate of return, or worse, if the entire system collapses? > > After all, UST is just an algorithmic stablecoin; there's nothing special about it that cannot be replicated by other platforms and smart contracts. If there was no risk, why don't all the other L1s also create a similar system to Anchor UST and offer 20% APR? > > In reality, Anchor UST currently works almost like a sort of a ponzi. > > [to quote](https://twitter.com/0xhamz/status/1506372692005593090?s=21): > > When UST per LUNA is less than LUNA mkt price -- the system is insolvent > > UST liabilities equate to 45% of the current circulating LUNA market cap > > With rapid UST adoption --- this rising floor is a vector of vulnerability. > > UST are deposits that are redeemable for LUNA tokens > > The LUNA ecosystem pays depositors to come into the ecosystem > > LUNA is paying depositors the 19.5% APY on Anchor > > But depositors are not creating organic value for LUNA > > LUNA benefits from UST adoption via swap and other usage fees > > LUNA has a 6.7% stake rate > > Borrow at 19.5% and return 6.7% won't last forever > > > /quote > > edit: Additionally, Terra is planning to buy over 10 billion dollars of bitcoin; where will those funds come from? Will they be forced to sell Terra Luna to fund this purchase? If so, what effect will that sell pressure have on the price of Luna? ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2mzj/top_10_terra_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive##wiki_terra.28luna.29) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/uvunu3/britains_crypto_list_heres_who_to_watch/).

CointestAdmin

#Terra Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by jeff406 which won 2nd place in the Terra Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > Terra is built as a modular blockchain within the [Cosmos](https://cosmos.network/ecosystem/apps) ecosystem, which means it exists alongside several other great DeFi platforms. > > First and foremost, Terra is providing decentralized stablecoins at a time when we need it most. The threat of a [Tether collapse](https://www.wired.com/story/why-tethers-collapse-would-be-bad-for-cryptocurrencies/) is as prevalent as ever, and TerraUSD (UST)--one of Terra's decentralized stablecoin offerings--is serving as a crucial component in the risk-management process. In fact, major cryptocurrency exchange [Kucoin has been increasing the amount of UST pairs available](https://www.kucoin.com/news/en-ust-market-to-add-new-trading-pairs), enabling their users to wean off USDT while still making all the necessary trades. > > Another reason that traders may struggle to kick Tether to the curb is the desire for stablecoin yield-farming. Luckily, Terra's [Anchor Protocol](https://www.anchorprotocol.com/) allows users to earn 19.6% APY on their TerraUSD tokens, "powered by staking returns from multiple Proof of Stake blockchains." Users are also able to borrow TerraUSD by bonding assets such as ATOM, DOT, or ETH. > > Additionally, [Mirror Protocol](https://mirrorprotocol.app/#/trade) allows users to gain exposure to synthetic securities without the hurdles of traditional brokerages. > > Terra's ecosystem of financial tools provide a decentralized, 1:1 replacement for modern financial services. Beyond the stability that TerraUSD brings as a replacement to Tether, Terra's services can truly bring the benefits of modern financial products to unbanked individuals across the globe. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2mwy/top_10_terra_proarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive##wiki_terra.28luna.29) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

FacundoGabrielGuzman

Losing money is not that bad after all, once you get UST to. What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.

_Unpunctual_

Haven’t most major projects already made plans to move onto different block chains? Why would anyone go back? I completely agree. What does Luna without the UST shit bring to the table? Nothing new, the stablecoin scam was the big “tech”. Who would you bet on for building out better tech, luna or cosmos? This type of failure shouldn’t be revived, it’s a mistake.

Stankoman

To be fair. BTC was 300k UST last week. So give them some credit.

throwawayLouisa

If only there were a USD 2.0 for the UST 2.0 to shadow, so that it wasn't such obvious copycat bullshit.

MediumAdhesiveness5

​ Update by u/This_is_VOYA >[https://twitter.com/thisisvoya/status/1529799738626826242](https://twitter.com/thisisvoya/status/1529799738626826242) > > \- a 2 minute explainer of what happened. Long story short; demand for UST drives up Luna price, which was artificially created via their 'golden promise' of 20% returns for their stablecoin. Once the demand and trust fades away, the whole thing collapses. LunaV2 may end up in a last hype bubble in order for the ones that lost big to recoup some of their losses. Act with caution.

Classic_Wonder_5803

Bitcoin (BTC) fell below $30,000, sinking to $26,597, as the TerraUSD (UST) stablecoin crashed far below its $1 peg, applying more downward pressure on the overall market. But fear not: The cryptocurrency market won't crash to zero, Sam Bankman-Fried told Fortune

leopardoo

Last chance to buy UST above 0.00000000001

Fit-Boomer

Such as the UST stablecoin?

Ghost_Lagoon

On coingecko UST (now USTC) is at 0.035

porcus-deus

Nothing stops them from adding UST 2.0 when they are able to implement a solid system. Meanwhile people can gamble

RandomRomanianUser

UST got a 10x jump to 50 cents today, wtf happened?

RiceDogo

Binance made an announcement regarding what is next. I made a post about it but it's still waiting for approval, I hope it comes through. Here's the link to the announcement already: [https://www.binance.com/en/support/announcement/c52fa3c686be4b2b9d5df50de15847ec](https://www.binance.com/en/support/announcement/c52fa3c686be4b2b9d5df50de15847ec) The only ones that won't get an airdrop from Binance are the below and I quote: \- "LUNA (old) and UST (old) borrowed from Margin or Crypto Loans, or LUNA (old) and UST (old) transferred to Spot accounts from these accounts, will not qualify to receive tokens from the airdrop." \- "U.S. persons, entities, and sanctioned countries are not eligible to receive this airdrop. For more information, please refer to Binance Terms of Use." Just something I really wanted to point out because it just came to me, in case the date shown when the announcement was posted beneath the title is in fact UTC, I can conclude 2 things. The announcement was posted on 2022-05-26 at 14:54 (UTC?) btw. ​ 1. The suspension of withdrawals and deposits of Luna (old) and UST (old) should have been done by the exchange 1h. before the announcement on the same day at 14:00 (UTC), which doesn't make sense. You didn't even have the chance to get your Luna or/and UST off the exchange in case you wanted to after you've read the announcement on the exchange itself. 2. The suspension of spot trading pairs and the canceling of all pending spot orders, for Luna/Busd and UST/Busd, would be canceled on the same day at 15:00 (UTC). This meant that you only had 6min. after the announcement to trade your Luna or/and UST for BUSD if you wanted after you've read the announcement on the exchange itself. ​ Now you have to wait until 2022-05-30 if you want to do these things. They really didn't give that much choice haha.

CointestAdmin

#Terra Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by idevcg which won 1st place in the Terra Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > Terra's entire value proposition is being propped up by its stablecoin UST, and in particular, the Anchor protocol, which has been giving out a pretty stable return of 19.5-20.5% APR so far. > > Because of how high its promise of returns is (and not on a shitcoin whose value fluctuates wildly, the value is pegged to USD for Anchor/UST), it managed to attract a huge amount of capital into the ecosystem. > > But how would Terra fare when Anchor can no longer offer such a high rate of return, or worse, if the entire system collapses? > > After all, UST is just an algorithmic stablecoin; there's nothing special about it that cannot be replicated by other platforms and smart contracts. If there was no risk, why don't all the other L1s also create a similar system to Anchor UST and offer 20% APR? > > In reality, Anchor UST currently works almost like a sort of a ponzi. > > [to quote](https://twitter.com/0xhamz/status/1506372692005593090?s=21): > > When UST per LUNA is less than LUNA mkt price -- the system is insolvent > > UST liabilities equate to 45% of the current circulating LUNA market cap > > With rapid UST adoption --- this rising floor is a vector of vulnerability. > > UST are deposits that are redeemable for LUNA tokens > > The LUNA ecosystem pays depositors to come into the ecosystem > > LUNA is paying depositors the 19.5% APY on Anchor > > But depositors are not creating organic value for LUNA > > LUNA benefits from UST adoption via swap and other usage fees > > LUNA has a 6.7% stake rate > > Borrow at 19.5% and return 6.7% won't last forever > > > /quote > > edit: Additionally, Terra is planning to buy over 10 billion dollars of bitcoin; where will those funds come from? Will they be forced to sell Terra Luna to fund this purchase? If so, what effect will that sell pressure have on the price of Luna? ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2mzj/top_10_terra_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive##wiki_terra.28luna.29) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/uvunu3/britains_crypto_list_heres_who_to_watch/).

CointestAdmin

#Terra Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by idevcg which won 3rd place in the Terra Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > Terra Luna's UST has surpassed makerDAO's DAI as the largest (by marketcap) algorithmic stablecoin, despite the fact that DAI has been around for much longer. > > Do Kwon, Terra's founder has recently announced that Terra plans to buy [11 billion dollars worth of bitcoin](https://cryptosnewss.com/terra-ust-buys-125-million-worth-of-btc-out-of-11-2-billion-planned-to-acquire-in-three-month-period/) in the next 3 months, to further diversify the backing of UST to make sure that UST can continue to maintain it's peg to the USD. > > The Anchor protocol, which is an essential part of the Terra ecosystem, offers an unprecedented 19.5-20.5% APR on UST. It has run smoothly for over a year without any problems, unlike many other stablecoins promising high returns but ended up rugpulling. > > [According to Electric Capital](https://youtu.be/_ZKsunlK7sA?t=4628), from December 2020 to December 2021, Terra is no.1 in the fastest growing ecosystems, in terms of growth of full time developers, at 313%. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2mwy/top_10_terra_proarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive##wiki_terra.28luna.29) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

mangopie220

Shib is still the top 20 coins. Luna and UST are dead and people still gambling on them. Are we maturing now lol

Bucksaway03

Am I reading that if I invested into UST after December I'll get an airdrop to the amount I lost over the span of 24 months?

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Ethereum co-founder Vitalik Buterin has shared two thought experiments on how to evaluate whether an algo-stablecoin is sustainable. The comments were sparked by the multi-billion dollar losses caused by the collapse of Terra (LUNA) and its algo stablecoin TerraUSD (UST). He highlighted that the increased scrutiny placed on crypto and DeFi since the Terra crash is “highly welcome,” but he warned against writing off all *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*

Osemka8

Don't care what people say. They end up doing the exact opposite. LUNA has shown incredible gains through it's inception. Sure, credibility is gone, but the projects will migrate to the new chain. If price rises after the initial dump, people will forget what happened and they'll be asking themselves "what if?", chasing potential moonshot. UST is gone and LUNA cannot rug the same again. Only if devs pull out the liquidity ot smtng, but Do will face a sea of new trouble as I'm sure other projects will come after him if the chain dies in that way. I'm betting on a comeback. Not to the same level, but the potential of gains to be made is there.

MaximumSandwich5

Guy's desperate. The LFG lost billions if it's true what they said about selling their BTC reserves for UST. Also, seriously, who would trust and invest in anything terra-related after that mess?

frstrtd_ndrd_dvlpr

so uhh UST 2.0 then?

XnoonefromnowhereX

I sold my soul to Milhouse for 5 UST.

Jeromechillin

I genuinely felt bad for Luna/UST holders because they lost alot of money. But if you go back to Do Kwan after he screwed already then that's some serious case of Stockholm.

CointestAdmin

#Algorand Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by idevcg which won 1st place in the Algorand Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > **Tech Specs**: > > - Algorand provides a "solution"^1 for the infamous "blockchain trilemma"; that you can never have security, decentralization and scalability all in a single blockchain. > > - Currently supports 1000 TPS and will be supporting 10,000 TPS in the next 6 months, as well as being able to support 46,000 TPS in the future if needed. Furthermore, co-chains will allow Algorand to essentially scale infinitely. Fees are also far lower than most competitors like Ethereum, Polygon, Avalanche, etc. > > - Algorand is Carbon negative; because of its unique consensus algorithm, Algorand expends far less energy than most other chains, and the Algorand foundation buys carbon credits to make the chain net carbon negative. > > ^1 Technically, Algorand does not "solve" the blockchain trilemma, because a true solution would require completely decoupling the three variables so that they become completely uncorrelated. What Algorand does, however, is increase the amount of all three variables, as compared to other blockchains. So as an analogy, you can only buy so many apples and oranges with $10; if you buy more oranges, you will have to buy less apples and vice versa. But with Algorand, it's as if you're starting with $20, so you can buy more of both apples and oranges. > > ------------------------------------------ > > **Founder**: > > - Founded by Silvio Micali, a professor at MIT who has received the Turing award, which is like the nobel prize equivalent for cryptography. He co-invented zero-knowledge proofs and pseudorandom functions, two of the most important concepts used by virtually all blockchains today. > > ------------------------------------------ > > **Unique Value Proposition:** > > - Because of the founder's ties with MIT, Algorand has support from some of the most important technical institutions in the world. > > - The Chairman of the SEC, Gary Gensler, taught a blockchain course back in 2018 at MIT, giving Algorand connections that no other chains have. > > - Algorand is focused on governments and large institutions, and has a huge advantage as a candidate blockchain for countries to develop CBDCs on because of the connections mentioned above. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > **Ecosystem:** > > - While Algorand's current non-institutional eco-system lags behind many of its competitors in terms of TVL in DeFi, as well as total volume in NFT marketplaces, Algorand is quickly starting to catch up with launch of AlgoFi, a decentralized lending protocol with its own native algorithmic stablecoin, as well as Tinyman, a native DEX for Algorand in the past few months, and many more DEXs like AlgoDex, Wagmiswap and Humbleswap just to name a few are coming in the next couple of months. Additionally, AlgoGard, an algorithmic stablecoin with high yield much like UST and the Anchor protocol for Terra is coming; and as we've seen from Anchor and Abracadabra.money, similar protocols have created a huge amount of TVL and upside for the L1 chains they are built on. > > - Borderless Capital has raised $500M in funding to invest in Algorand based start-ups. Hivemind Capital, which raised $1.5B in funding for crypto-related investments has chosen Algorand as its first blockchain partner to invest in. > > - The Algorand Foundation has created a $300 Million dollar Viridis fund to support the ecosystem. > > Disclosure: I hold a very significant portion of my portfolio in Algos. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/qk4y7z/coin_inquiries_round_algorand_proarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Algorand) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

CointestAdmin

#Bitcoin Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by bkcrypt0 which won 1st place in the Bitcoin Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > # Bitcoin is failing its original mission, and institutional interest is going to make things worse. > > **Background** > > Satoshi Nakamoto was a financial revolutionary out to counter the fiat money presses that destroy a currency's value with inflation (looking at you Turkey and the U.S.) The method—create a currency with a fixed supply, mined liked gold to make it scarce, and digitally transferable anywhere in the world between any parties. > > **Lack of Stability** > > Bitcoin can't be used as a global currency to replace fiat and eliminate politicized money printing because it has to hold its value steady over time. > > Why? > > People work for dollars, euros, yen, or yuan because there is relative stability in their paychecks from week to week. Their food, rent/mortgage, clothing, energy costs are also relatively stable (inflation is the cost for using that particular currency, but it beats a 50% drop in value over the course of a few months, and most inflation around the world isn't as bad as Turkey or Venezuela.) > > Imagine being paid a flat 1BTC / year for a particular job. But you live in the U.S. and the value of that BTC just dropped over the course of the year by 50%. Your lease is fixed over 12 months. Your food costs are the same or maybe even higher. Not only do you still get hit with local inflation, your buying power just dropped by half. > > This is why over $155B\* have flowed into stable coins like USDT, USDC, BUSD, UST, and DAI) > > **Lack of Accountability** > > The relatively anonymous transfer of value between parties was supposed to be a positive aspect of bitcoin. Your money, so do what you want with it. The problem is, there are a lot of other people that also want anonymity — human traffickers, dangerous drug smugglers, crime syndicates, tax evaders. Sure they can also use USD (and most of them do), but they are also traceable if they enter the global financial system. > > Making it easier for criminals to evade authorities makes everyone less safe. And sure, no one likes to pay taxes, but consider the alternative. Roads, schools, social services, some hospitals, police and fire departments, they all rely on taxes. > > **Lack of security** > > Unlike gold, which is pretty much indestructible, Bitcoin holdings depend on keeping seed phrases secure. If there were a house fire a gold bar might melt, but it can be reformed. A hardware wallet will be destroyed and any seed phrases stored on paper will be gone. That's part of gold's appeal as a store of value. > > Also, were there to be an internet outage in any widespread way, Bitcoin is useless as a transaction currency (part of the appeal of physical paper money and metal coins.) While unlikely, this scenario speaks to the lack of overall security in Bitcoin as a means of exchange (it has other benefits like cryptographic security, but its lack of physicality poses problems with public perception, and practical uses.) > > **Acts like fiat, moves like fiat . . .** > > Bitcoin remains highly correlated to traditional finance markets (two recent readings were the highest they've been -- see link below) and doesn't exactly act as a hedge against inflation when it plummets in the face of, well, high inflation. > > What this shows is that big money is controlling Bitcoin (and by association the rest of crypto) by reacting in the same risk-off reaction when inflation flares up. > > It goes something like this: > > * When inflation rises, the Fed tightens money supply to slow things down. > * Big money flees from riskier assets like company stock (they likely won't be as profitable in a high inflation world) > * Stock prices drop \[and here's the problem\] > * Money does not flow INTO crypto as a hedge against this risk, it also flees. > > **Conclusion** > > Fighting fiat money printing excesses was never going to be easy, but as with most revolutions, unintended consequences often derail the original vision. > > For one, government policies can avert the worst of political impulses. That doesn't require a wholesale financial market revolution. > > U.S. inflation has also been remarkably low for well over two decades. It was a once in a century global pandemic that forced a massive print run of dollars. > > Bitcoin has also become just another a plaything for the rich, a commodity to be bought and sold for profit rather than the antidote to centralized money creation. And because even larger stacks of fiat are on the sidelines waiting to jump in, volatility is going to get even worse with big swings as fund managers chase and take profits. > > None of this means Bitcoin has no value in global finance. It just means it isn't going to serve the purpose as originally intended. > > \------------------ > > * For Bitcoin correlation to stocks see: [https://seekingalpha.com/news/3784018-how-does-bitcoin-correlate-with-us-dollar-stocks-other-asset-classes](https://seekingalpha.com/news/3784018-how-does-bitcoin-correlate-with-us-dollar-stocks-other-asset-classes) > * Stablecoin totals for the five mentioned above were calculated on 1/11/21 from CoinMarketCap - [https://coinmarketcap.com/](https://coinmarketcap.com/) ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2lpo/top_10_bitcoin_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Bitcoin) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/uvunu3/britains_crypto_list_heres_who_to_watch/).

CrowdGoesWildWoooo

One important thing to consider the selling point of LUNA has been its Stablecoin ecosystem. Now it doesn’t work that means that LUNA as an ecosystem is pointless. The majority of LUNA ecosystem were working around anchor or UST, removing that from equation means removed majority of the defi options and reduce it to nothing other than PoS value transfer protocol.

greatfunawesometime

Tether is the true stablecoin because it keeps itself afloat by the same methods as the USD lol. I avoid it whenever possible but I seriously doubt it succumbs to the same fate as UST.

lowgskillet

UST down 69% on the day

bigshooTer39

Wondering the same thing. I was providing liquidity in a UST/usdc pool on pangolin. Forgot about it. Then it was too late. Still holding bc I saw the same thing a week or two ago

UcharsiU

>Confidently wrong - that’s what you are. Ok. I've got few words describing what you are but I'll keep it to myself. >UST was NOT a collateralized coin, it was an algorithmic coin. LUNA was NOT used as a collateral for it, but burned or minted to keep the peg. UST and luna were just good example i provided so maybe even most stubborn mined could grasp the idea of what us wrong with calling something backed when it isn't. Collateralized is not backed either due to natural volatility of the asset and general definition. >Algo stables are known to have a death spiral vulnerability. IRON and FRAX and DEI are other examples of algo stables. >DAI and MIM are examples of overcollateralized stables. Nicely unnecessary lecture but at least you make an effort. >USDC and BUSD are collateralized stables with collateral being actual dollars. Not fully, not proven and that makes it unbacked. >Go read a bit before you go around acting like a smartass. I'm much smarter than you. Go buy some Luna.

therealdivs1210

Confidently wrong - that’s what you are. UST was NOT a collateralized coin, it was an algorithmic coin. LUNA was NOT used as a collateral for it, but burned or minted to keep rhe peg. Algo stables are known to have a death spiral vulnerability. IRON and FRAX and DEI are other examples of algo stables. DAI and MIM are examples of overcollateralized stables. USDC and BUSD are collateralized stables with collateral being actual dollars. Go read a bit before you ho around acting like a smartass.

PBandJ_maniac

isnt UST already pegged to the peso?

GoldenRain99

That's not true, as there was a record breaking amount of capital invested into crypto projects in Q1, and most of those projects aren't centered around LUNA and UST, the investors aren't going anywhere. For your average person, there is little reason they'd be interested in investing into any market, when a recession seems imminent.

CreepToeCurrentSea

With Luna and UST I became an inverse gazillionaire.

FancyCoolHwhip

Damn, but we are all in deep red. Who could have predicted a war and UST/LUNA fall

Longjumping-Tie7445

Regardless of whether anything malicious occurred, LUNA faced a *very reasonable* stress test and failed miserably. It could have been on purpose. If so, it was pretty damned easy to destroy UST/LUNA. It could have not been on purpose. If so, it was pretty damned easy to destroy UST/LUNA. The thing is, Bitcoin has had people trying to hack it and even destroy it, manipulate it, profit off it through nefarious ways for a very, very, *very* long time. All blockchains will. Deal with it or die and let Darwinian Evolution decide who gets to continue on.

WhiskeyTangoTrotfox

Well, at least with this one we don’t have to wonder if the algorithm will blow the whole damn thing up like UST.  Then again, maybe the Fed just decides to yank the rug out on their own. Daddy Fed does loves to throw a wrench in things.

ccw12333

So i think this is now confirm that LUNA will never gonna die, still seeing him along with UST in the top 5. That is show the people are not actually here for the tech, in the end we are here for money.

Wilder54321

UST on Coinbase is down 55%. *I didn’t even know it had another 55% to lose lol!*

CyberMatrix87

Well if BTC/UST really went from $40k to $700K in a few days, why not. Just mint your coin it a meme and you’re set. People make their money by getting in at .00001 and then selling when it drops zeros.

Orange1155

UST final day before delisting and snapshot. ALL IN.

DragonFireKai

The VCs took a fucking beating on UST. Jump capital's crypto division is being considered for dissolution because the beating they took on LUNA. Galaxy Digital got fucked as well, along with Three Arrows. The story you've got is, quite frankly, wrong, and I say this as someone who's been arguing against UST and LUNA since I watched Iron.finance go down in flames. Here's the thing, UST went live around the same time as IRON did. They pursued similar market space and design. When IRON went down and lit $2 billion on fire in the process, Terra took notes, and made changes to try and mitigate the risk. There was a theory that a strategic reserve would allow them to keep a dip from turning into a spiral. Turns out they were wrong. Further complicating things is the fact that you can't just turn off an ecosystem the size of what Terra was at the time. A billion dollar ecosystem tries to liquidate, and it's going to be worth substantially less than a billion by the end of the process. So if you think you've got an idea for how to not fail the way those other guys failed, and you've got the choice of trying to implement that idea, or quit and light hundreds of millions of dollars on fire in the process, most people try something to keep the ship from sinking.

Surfif456

How did UST rugpull a 2nd time? Down almost 60% today

Gary_FucKing

I was talking about UST lol.

imperator285

Nobody tell him about UST

CointestAdmin

#Bitcoin Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by bkcrypt0 which won 1st place in the Bitcoin Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > # Bitcoin is failing its original mission, and institutional interest is going to make things worse. > > **Background** > > Satoshi Nakamoto was a financial revolutionary out to counter the fiat money presses that destroy a currency's value with inflation (looking at you Turkey and the U.S.) The method—create a currency with a fixed supply, mined liked gold to make it scarce, and digitally transferable anywhere in the world between any parties. > > **Lack of Stability** > > Bitcoin can't be used as a global currency to replace fiat and eliminate politicized money printing because it has to hold its value steady over time. > > Why? > > People work for dollars, euros, yen, or yuan because there is relative stability in their paychecks from week to week. Their food, rent/mortgage, clothing, energy costs are also relatively stable (inflation is the cost for using that particular currency, but it beats a 50% drop in value over the course of a few months, and most inflation around the world isn't as bad as Turkey or Venezuela.) > > Imagine being paid a flat 1BTC / year for a particular job. But you live in the U.S. and the value of that BTC just dropped over the course of the year by 50%. Your lease is fixed over 12 months. Your food costs are the same or maybe even higher. Not only do you still get hit with local inflation, your buying power just dropped by half. > > This is why over $155B\* have flowed into stable coins like USDT, USDC, BUSD, UST, and DAI) > > **Lack of Accountability** > > The relatively anonymous transfer of value between parties was supposed to be a positive aspect of bitcoin. Your money, so do what you want with it. The problem is, there are a lot of other people that also want anonymity — human traffickers, dangerous drug smugglers, crime syndicates, tax evaders. Sure they can also use USD (and most of them do), but they are also traceable if they enter the global financial system. > > Making it easier for criminals to evade authorities makes everyone less safe. And sure, no one likes to pay taxes, but consider the alternative. Roads, schools, social services, some hospitals, police and fire departments, they all rely on taxes. > > **Lack of security** > > Unlike gold, which is pretty much indestructible, Bitcoin holdings depend on keeping seed phrases secure. If there were a house fire a gold bar might melt, but it can be reformed. A hardware wallet will be destroyed and any seed phrases stored on paper will be gone. That's part of gold's appeal as a store of value. > > Also, were there to be an internet outage in any widespread way, Bitcoin is useless as a transaction currency (part of the appeal of physical paper money and metal coins.) While unlikely, this scenario speaks to the lack of overall security in Bitcoin as a means of exchange (it has other benefits like cryptographic security, but its lack of physicality poses problems with public perception, and practical uses.) > > **Acts like fiat, moves like fiat . . .** > > Bitcoin remains highly correlated to traditional finance markets (two recent readings were the highest they've been -- see link below) and doesn't exactly act as a hedge against inflation when it plummets in the face of, well, high inflation. > > What this shows is that big money is controlling Bitcoin (and by association the rest of crypto) by reacting in the same risk-off reaction when inflation flares up. > > It goes something like this: > > * When inflation rises, the Fed tightens money supply to slow things down. > * Big money flees from riskier assets like company stock (they likely won't be as profitable in a high inflation world) > * Stock prices drop \[and here's the problem\] > * Money does not flow INTO crypto as a hedge against this risk, it also flees. > > **Conclusion** > > Fighting fiat money printing excesses was never going to be easy, but as with most revolutions, unintended consequences often derail the original vision. > > For one, government policies can avert the worst of political impulses. That doesn't require a wholesale financial market revolution. > > U.S. inflation has also been remarkably low for well over two decades. It was a once in a century global pandemic that forced a massive print run of dollars. > > Bitcoin has also become just another a plaything for the rich, a commodity to be bought and sold for profit rather than the antidote to centralized money creation. And because even larger stacks of fiat are on the sidelines waiting to jump in, volatility is going to get even worse with big swings as fund managers chase and take profits. > > None of this means Bitcoin has no value in global finance. It just means it isn't going to serve the purpose as originally intended. > > \------------------ > > * For Bitcoin correlation to stocks see: [https://seekingalpha.com/news/3784018-how-does-bitcoin-correlate-with-us-dollar-stocks-other-asset-classes](https://seekingalpha.com/news/3784018-how-does-bitcoin-correlate-with-us-dollar-stocks-other-asset-classes) > * Stablecoin totals for the five mentioned above were calculated on 1/11/21 from CoinMarketCap - [https://coinmarketcap.com/](https://coinmarketcap.com/) ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2lpo/top_10_bitcoin_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Bitcoin) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/uvunu3/britains_crypto_list_heres_who_to_watch/).

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Lyrebird has proposed a fractional reserve method for the USDL stablecoin and new incentive structures to combat an algorithmic protocol collapse. In May 2022, a protocol Lyrebird was modeled after, Terra, suffered a “death spiral” in the face of rapidly decreasing demand for its UST stablecoin. The team believes it can incentivize token holders to delay USDL redemptions in times of extreme stress. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*

DragonFireKai

It was actually the opposite of a ponzi. Ponzi schemes take money from new investors, and use it to pay old investors. Anchor used investments from older investors to attract new users. It's much more akin to a flawed tech startup. You know the companies, the ones that are "it's X, but for Y!" and some moron who invested $1,000 in Napster and somehow got out with a mil gives them $250k, even if their X is Uber, and their Y is Pogo Sticks. UST was "A stablecoin, but tor bull markets!"

kiefferbp

It looks like holding Shen would actually be riskier than holding Luna. At least for Luna you could trade $1 of Luna for $1 of UST and vice-versa; however, you can only trade Shen for ADA as long as there is 4x+ collateral. This is better for owners of Djed, but Shen holders will take an insane amount of risk.

CointestAdmin

#Bitcoin Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by bkcrypt0 which won 1st place in the Bitcoin Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > # Bitcoin is failing its original mission, and institutional interest is going to make things worse. > > **Background** > > Satoshi Nakamoto was a financial revolutionary out to counter the fiat money presses that destroy a currency's value with inflation (looking at you Turkey and the U.S.) The method—create a currency with a fixed supply, mined liked gold to make it scarce, and digitally transferable anywhere in the world between any parties. > > **Lack of Stability** > > Bitcoin can't be used as a global currency to replace fiat and eliminate politicized money printing because it has to hold its value steady over time. > > Why? > > People work for dollars, euros, yen, or yuan because there is relative stability in their paychecks from week to week. Their food, rent/mortgage, clothing, energy costs are also relatively stable (inflation is the cost for using that particular currency, but it beats a 50% drop in value over the course of a few months, and most inflation around the world isn't as bad as Turkey or Venezuela.) > > Imagine being paid a flat 1BTC / year for a particular job. But you live in the U.S. and the value of that BTC just dropped over the course of the year by 50%. Your lease is fixed over 12 months. Your food costs are the same or maybe even higher. Not only do you still get hit with local inflation, your buying power just dropped by half. > > This is why over $155B\* have flowed into stable coins like USDT, USDC, BUSD, UST, and DAI) > > **Lack of Accountability** > > The relatively anonymous transfer of value between parties was supposed to be a positive aspect of bitcoin. Your money, so do what you want with it. The problem is, there are a lot of other people that also want anonymity — human traffickers, dangerous drug smugglers, crime syndicates, tax evaders. Sure they can also use USD (and most of them do), but they are also traceable if they enter the global financial system. > > Making it easier for criminals to evade authorities makes everyone less safe. And sure, no one likes to pay taxes, but consider the alternative. Roads, schools, social services, some hospitals, police and fire departments, they all rely on taxes. > > **Lack of security** > > Unlike gold, which is pretty much indestructible, Bitcoin holdings depend on keeping seed phrases secure. If there were a house fire a gold bar might melt, but it can be reformed. A hardware wallet will be destroyed and any seed phrases stored on paper will be gone. That's part of gold's appeal as a store of value. > > Also, were there to be an internet outage in any widespread way, Bitcoin is useless as a transaction currency (part of the appeal of physical paper money and metal coins.) While unlikely, this scenario speaks to the lack of overall security in Bitcoin as a means of exchange (it has other benefits like cryptographic security, but its lack of physicality poses problems with public perception, and practical uses.) > > **Acts like fiat, moves like fiat . . .** > > Bitcoin remains highly correlated to traditional finance markets (two recent readings were the highest they've been -- see link below) and doesn't exactly act as a hedge against inflation when it plummets in the face of, well, high inflation. > > What this shows is that big money is controlling Bitcoin (and by association the rest of crypto) by reacting in the same risk-off reaction when inflation flares up. > > It goes something like this: > > * When inflation rises, the Fed tightens money supply to slow things down. > * Big money flees from riskier assets like company stock (they likely won't be as profitable in a high inflation world) > * Stock prices drop \[and here's the problem\] > * Money does not flow INTO crypto as a hedge against this risk, it also flees. > > **Conclusion** > > Fighting fiat money printing excesses was never going to be easy, but as with most revolutions, unintended consequences often derail the original vision. > > For one, government policies can avert the worst of political impulses. That doesn't require a wholesale financial market revolution. > > U.S. inflation has also been remarkably low for well over two decades. It was a once in a century global pandemic that forced a massive print run of dollars. > > Bitcoin has also become just another a plaything for the rich, a commodity to be bought and sold for profit rather than the antidote to centralized money creation. And because even larger stacks of fiat are on the sidelines waiting to jump in, volatility is going to get even worse with big swings as fund managers chase and take profits. > > None of this means Bitcoin has no value in global finance. It just means it isn't going to serve the purpose as originally intended. > > \------------------ > > * For Bitcoin correlation to stocks see: [https://seekingalpha.com/news/3784018-how-does-bitcoin-correlate-with-us-dollar-stocks-other-asset-classes](https://seekingalpha.com/news/3784018-how-does-bitcoin-correlate-with-us-dollar-stocks-other-asset-classes) > * Stablecoin totals for the five mentioned above were calculated on 1/11/21 from CoinMarketCap - [https://coinmarketcap.com/](https://coinmarketcap.com/) ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2lpo/top_10_bitcoin_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Bitcoin) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/uvunu3/britains_crypto_list_heres_who_to_watch/).

ddbnkm

Because people that hele UST and ‘got scammed’, in your words, perhaps also wanted to sell. If all exchanges delisted the tokens, no one could get an out anymore. It sounds like you bought LUNA/UST on ‘the dip’ and got wrecked, and now blame Binance…

big--if-true

People were using Eth as collateral for borrowing UST then lending the UST for interest. UST and Luna collapsed so theres a huge eth selloff and no more demand. Basically eth got pumped by UST/Anchor ponzi.

big--if-true

People were using Eth as collateral for borrowing UST then lending the UST for interest. UST and Luna collapsed so theres a huge eth selloff and no more demand. Basically eth got pumped by UST/Anchor ponzi.

Mathie7

didn’t require money pouring into it. That wasn’t the mechanism. Collapsed because the value of UST got too big relative to LUNA because kwonboy pushed stupid partnerships like the MIM degen box that introduced leverage.

outrider567

UST crashing again, down to.049

outrider567

UST is crashing again, just got down to .049

Frosty-Cone

Yes and UST is backed by Do Kwon’s word, which we all know is gold. So technically it’s backed by gold.