VTI

CollegeStudnt

> VTI and literally any other US company is a little redundant Respectfully disagree; VTI/SPY are purely cap weighted U.S. market beta vehicles, an individual U.S. company has unsystematic (company-specific) risk which will, in most cases, result in a completely different set of risk and return expectations and substantially different behavior than broad market beta. It’s only redundant in the sense you could say they belong to the same (very) broad asset class, but not in the sense that it would be duplicative from a risk/return perspective. Using market beta + individual names (core/satellite) is a common way to under/outperform the benchmark exposure. To answer OP’s question though, yea, VTI/SPY are going to have almost identical return profiles, agree with deepfield that you should just use the cheapest. Diversify by cap weighting/factor/sector etc. if you want to stay with ETFs and, as deepfield also correctly notes: diversify your risk exposure and build in protection if appropriate. My $0.02

Beer-N-Chicken

I'd just put it all on VTI, it has a lower expense ratio and has smaller companies included as well. If you really want the large cap focus I'd get VOO since it has a lower expense ratio than SPY. Most people just use SPY for the liquidity.

faireducash

I’m a long term investor. Could really care less about the next two weeks, no offense. But I’ll buy VTI many times over the next two weeks. Good luck!

guachi01

FTEC is the FIDELITY MSCI INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY INDEX ETF It holds 350+ Information Technology stocks. Just about anything and everything out there. FTEC is 100% IT. VTI isn't really tech focused. It's only 28% IT. QQQ is 51% tech. If you really want a focus in tech, look at FTEC.

dacalo

You underperformed broad index ETF like VTI and SPY.

AP9384629344432

Fun fact: Lockheed outperforms VTI if you go back to 1995. More recently, not so much.

Anonymoose2021

And high dividend stocks will create an unnecessary tax cost when in the accumulation phase. Optimizing total return rather than dividend yield is typically the better choice, with the small disadvantage of having to sell small fractions of your holdings in retirement. You still come out ahead of where you would be by going for high dividend stocks. Compare the long term results of dividend focused ETFs like SCHD with total market ETFs like VTI and SCHB and you will see total market ETFs win, even including the effect of reinvested dividends and assuming zero tax cost on dividends.

geniusrafaelus

Im watching VTI and the movements its going to make for the next 2 weeks. Im a tad bit worried about how the US will handle its current inflation. 😅

Both-Ad-7757

100% VTI. You’re 21, you have more than enough time for compounding interest to work it’s magic

reptargodzilla2

By investing in both, you’re effectively overweighting the top 500 stocks in terms of market cap (since they’re present in both). But, if you want the S&P 500 in addition to VTI, use VOO instead of SPY—same shit, lower fees.

Possibility-Perfect

VTI and VOO accomplishes both with less fees. (Ish)

charlieandoreo

In a taxable account I would invest in VOO or VTI and if you want international I would buy VXUS. Keep it simple no bonds in taxable unless you have a high income then invest in munis. That is all you need in a taxable.

garrettf04

VTI or VTSAX and just keep buying. Don't worry about the market fluctuations, just buy as much as you can on a regular basis.

jobfedron132

Spread?? Why dont you start off by buying a leap? You can buy VTI 2023/2024 LEAP. SPY is a bit expensive. VTI tracks the total market index. It wont be quick money but you get the benefit of leverage. Once your profit target is reached, then just roll the options for a higher strike rate and keep the profit. You can buy ITM leaps and keep selling calls.

carsonthecarsinogen

Anyone’s guess if it will outperform VTI but longterm this stock only goes up

hanes9120

What is the formula for deciding the best amount of money to save? I'm assuming there is some advised calculation based on monthly expenses and how much u save? 2-3months is a short timeframe, I'm used to hearing 6-12 months. Does take amount of expenses into account? I'm asking bc I currently have like 40k sitting in my checking readily available. I have expenses that I pay for my family of 3 and house mortgage. I would say my necessary expenses probably come to around 3-4k a month including mortgage. Should I only be holding onto max 15k cash and invest rest? As for what I have invested, I max out my Roth and 401k contributions (and so does wife). I also have another 25k in stocks/ETFs. Should I put more in to really reap the benefits 5-10 years from now? I only invest in stocks I trust and play long, such as Microsoft, Nvidia, apple, and ETFs like VTI SPY and QQQ. Don't really have a financial goal for my investments other than just want my money working for me. I opted to have my house property taxes not in escrow so I can invest it rather than sit in escrow and do nothing. So optimally I would like to see growth that it in 5-10 years it would cover a few property tax payments I guess. Thanks I'm advance

Mcgase_8

SPY is an S&P 500 index fund, VTI is a Total Market index, so by holding VTI you get every holding in SPY plus some mid-cap and small-cap exposure

LowRound6481

So many people have 0 idea how to invest, let alone how to do it properly. My friend was so excited to steer investing this year he bought 10k of VTI, which is greet, except it was in a taxable account and he’s funded $0 ever in an IRA or 401k. He’s also mid 30s. Retirement is going to be rough for a lot of people.

Seabound117

DIA, VTI, VOO, SPY, anything not solely Nasdaq related until the interest rate fear passes.

apooroldinvestor

With 30 years? It'll do better than VTI my friend. Just my opinion.

6pt022x10tothe23

> but if want a different ratio then I need to do VTI + VXUS. VT is ~60 VTI and ~40 VXUS. If you want a different ratio, then play around with those two.

InkognitoV

Buy VTI

68_Bullitt

> I did massive tax loss harvesting of VTI in March 2020. Damn! Good move selling at the bottom. May I ask when you bought back in--assuming you did?

PleasantAnomaly

Not sure this is a good idea. Because options are for later buying or selling VOO just like stocks. And I know for sure you can't just buy VOO or VTI from the EU with IBKR, cause MIFIID régulations.

mtcwby

Because people aren't very good at finances and even worse at delayed gratification. I always assumed my parents knew more because my dad invested but there's been a couple times they've done stuff that didn't make financial sense. Mom is technically a millionaire at 83 on a career as a teacher but that's mostly because she's frugal and dad did invest well for what they had. Just helped my son's GF start a small brokerage account into VTI with a little bit each week. My son has taken it to heart and has about 32k invested as a 19 year old. If he keeps it up he has a good chance at being a millionaire early even without inheritance.

AP9384629344432

I also starting to prefer VTI over VOO, but isn't VTI actually more volatile due to the small caps?

6pt022x10tothe23

VTI and chill.

tdm121

yes. long term investor don't care what the market is doing day to day. Even "Bob" the worst market timer in the history of mankind still somehow made money. (https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2014/02/worlds-worst-market-timer/ )....make a plan: set it and forget it. It is time in the market and not timing the market. Also, I wouldn't put 50% in QQQ: I suppose you can but it is more risky. Maybe a smaller percentage to "tilt"??I would suggest VTI/VTSAX over VOO/VFIAX or whatever Fidelity/Schwab equivalent of total market index -performance chasing can be deadly to one's portfolio. ie. ARKK: it has very good return over 5 year period: but most of the money was poured in when it was high. I believe most money invest in ARKK has lost money...

RandolphE6

Kinda. Their performance is almost identical because of the weightings. Everything in SPY is in VTI. But there's nothing inherently wrong with owning both.

SHOCK_VALUE_USERNAME

I'm working towards building up 100 shares of SPY just so I can sell covered calls on it. VTI options have less liquidity, have 5 point-wide strikes, and trade in 5 cent increments. Not nearly as easily to trade options on.

HealerWarrior

Yes. 80% of VTI is SPY. But you also have daily buys in Robinhood so I don’t expect much better.

PseudoNomPseudo

Funny, I do this. I guess it’s just to have a little mid/low cap exposure. VTI and VOO though, not SPY. I guess it depends how well you think low cap will do. It’s a little redundant I guess, but I just don’t like how much low cap may drag things down over the next little while

deepfield67

VTI and literally any other US company is a little redundant but as long as you're aware of this and OK with it I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. VTI is already weighted towards the S&P, so you're just doubly weighted towards those 500 companies. If you think they're going to do well, and they most likely will, then I see no problem. In the interest of diversification, you may want to consider international, fixed income, or some non-equity play, as well.

MXC-GuyLedouche

Common is like 6 months of living expenses. Rent, groceries, standard car expenses, etc... In savings and the rest into investing (401k, IRA, traditional brokerage) I'm 30 but feel like my life changes alot, not just the settle down type so I like to keep more like a year worth of savings. If your life is more stable and you're settled down then 3-6 months savings might be perfect. Since you're nervous keep it simple and put it all into a total market index like VTI, even if we have a huge crash don't pull out (this is why you have savings) and if you can put even more in. When you feel nervous just zoom out and look at the trend. Also don't look at the balance all the time. Have auto deposits set up and only look once a year or once every five years etc

makaros622

That’s a good plan. Instead of VOO look at VTI. Safer bet.

SapphireEmerald

VUSA/IUSA for s&p 500 and VWRL for ‘VTI’.

DesertAlpine

Yet the five year numbers show VTI is the lowest return of the three major market ETFs listed above, even with VOO “missing out” on tesla for so many years. Obviously 5 years is a small window. Of my automated investing, 10% goes into VTI. Admittedly, my automated cash flow system MAY be overly complicated, lol, but I was seeking a certain overall ratio of Large/Mid/Small cap, US/Foreign, Growth/Dividend, as well as slight sector overweight adjusted annually. The end result: My complicated automated system has under-performed the S&P benchmark by about 2% the last two years running, lol. The automated side is just half my stock portfolio, though. I’ve still outperformed the benchmark years running from high conviction single stock over-weighting, although I know and trust the data on indexing, which is why I implemented the automated system a couple years ago to help my portfolio start going more in that direction. If I calculate the TIME I’ve spent analyzing/thinking/picking....then have I TRULY outperformed the benchmark with my high convictions? What’s the opportunity cost of so much time? I fully automated my children’s brokerages, although I do give each portfolio a single stock pick each year so they learn also the fun side of investing.

inscrutabledesiguy

> For index funds try to avoid overlap; VOO and VTI are basically the same, so pick one and ignore the other. A common pattern is a 2/3 fund portfolio: US market (VOO or VTI), international markets, bonds. I personally don’t do bonds (with the negative real returns this is just less liquid cash…) or international but it’s common so felt to point out. Got it. Leaning towards VTI+VXUS+maybe 5-10% QQQ > only real risk is US solving the education cost… sadly feel this is low risk…. My concern is that in 20years college education is going to lose its value. If you can learn programming, ML, AI on your own and get a fair shot a job or being an entrepreneur, then maybe that + a community college (to build up social skills) might be enough vs spending all those $$$$$ > I have fidelity and you can auto invest, it’s just super clunky…. You have them pull X from your bank on fixed dates (why no bi-weekly?) the. The next day put in each stock/etf (think you need to setup for each…). Also DRIP (dividend reinvestment) isn’t on by default so sadly have to enable per stock!!! Got it. Thanks!

faireducash

Would sell it all and buy VTI

inscrutabledesiguy

Thanks for the advice and i am leaning toward what you mentioned VTI+VXUS + maybe 10% QQQ (and stay away from individual picks). I need to find the fidelity equivalents of VTI and VXUS now (not sure if it needs to be that way and maybe i can just buy vanguard ETFs in fidelity account) > set it and forget it: and spend the time with the people you love and do things you love to do. Amen. That's the goal.

bobdevnul

I had to look up RRSP. That's a Canadian thing. I don't know anything about Canadian investing, but will ask: What are the loads and fees on the funds your advisor is recommending? If it is like US advisors, there is a \~6% front end load and an elevated annual expense of about 1%. That is an instant 7% loss for the first year the instant you buy them, then a 1% drag on growth every year. If you can buy no-load, low expense, broad market index funds on your own, like US VTI, VXUS, BND or some Canadian equivalent you don't need an advisor and their outrageous fees. It is a well proven fact that advisors don't have any special knowledge of what will perform best. Advisors do serve a purpose to assist those clueless about investing to do something better than bank savings accounts and CDs. If you are not clueless, you don't need them. Good luck

inscrutabledesiguy

Got it so if i want 60/40 split between US and ROW I can just pick VT but if want a different ratio then I need to do VTI + something else.

y0ung-Buck

I actually didn’t mention the S&P 500. The “broad market” in which the statistics were derived would be consistent with an ETF like VTI that encompasses almost all of the US equity market. The statistics I mentioned would be very similar, but not identical, if you were wanting to compare them to an S&P 500 fund.

Daffy-089

There’s no VTI equivalent you can buy in Europe though

Acrobatic_Can_365

I would buy VTI over VOO. Vanguard did an analysis and concluded that VTI was a bit better than VOO , so all vanguard employees get their 401k contributed and matched into VTI by default now. VTI covers some mid and small cap and it beats out VOO when nasdaq or dow is up with the market or doing better than S&P. If you had VTI in 2000 you would have had some exposure to big lockout tech winners like tesla, zoom, square and so on. But not with VOO

Acrobatic_Can_365

When nasdaq or dow does well, VTI beats out VOO. Usually one or both of them go up with s&p. VtI is more diverse and cover more up and coming techs

DesertAlpine

What makes you say that? VTI fell nearly 33% during the covid flash crash, whereas VOO fell just over 32% and QQQ fell only 28%. Meanwhile, the 5 year total returns are: - VTI - 101% - VOO - 105% - QQQ - 208%

Majesticpork

Inflation is 7% so you lose money by not investing. Imagine you had 100k 30 years ago. You could have bought a house but now it won't be enough for a down payment. It's the same thing with your money. It's worth something now but if you don't do anything then by the time you are 50 then it will be close to worthless. Just buy VTI and forget about it. Save money. Don't spend on things you don't need. Save about 2-3months of budget and invest the rest.

Proudfoots2

Much of the seminal literature on investing stresses that financial advisors cannot beat the market. For this reason, they recommend index funds such as VTI or VOO.

zdiddy987

Curious why VTI and buy VTSAX? No fees?

llfruge7

I don’t mean to sound like a jerk, but it’s true. The same went for me last year. I had some meme stocks that I bought because they were hyped up a lot. I was down on nearly all of those but I was up on my smarter picks, such as MSFT, AAPL, VTI, etc. Best advice I can give you is if you don’t know much about a company, don’t invest in it until you do. I don’t know much about how to do a technical analysis of a company or what all the financials mean just yet, so I stick with an ETF and companies that have a proven track record that is innovative. I took a loss on some of my others but I’ve also recouped a lot by transitioning into blue chips for the most part. Good luck out there!

Brawndo_or_Water

I just threw an additional 250K in VTI, VOO and QQQ last week, Holding that as long as I can. You can consider it a big DCA as I usually do a few big tranches one or twice a year. Not stressed about it. Don't ask why both VOO and VTI I just like it like that.

AP9384629344432

Anyone have both SCHD/VTI in a tax-free account? What proportion do you use?

BeenBink

You should put at least 80% of your money into ETFs like VOO or VTI. These track the S&P 500 and the entire US stock market. You shouldn’t listen to the people on here for individual stock picks. ETF’s and Index Funds are the best bet for a beginner. They’re the best bet for everyone imo. I’d also recommend using fidelity if you’re not already

HiReturns

I did massive tax loss harvesting of VTI in March 2020. Your tax loss harvesting opportunities will not be as often as with individual stocks, but major crashes will create opportunities. On a practical basis, I find that TLH of broad market indexes typically only happens during major crashes, so I typically am simultaneously doing tax loss harvesting, and also buying extra replacement ETF to rebalance my 80/20 stock/bond. The easiest way is to buy an extra 10% of the replacement ETaf.

HiReturns

You can immediately buy a similar, but not substantially identical ETF. VTI, ITOT, and SCHB follow different indexes so you can sell one at a loss and immediate,y buy another without triggering wash family rules. Since they are all total stock market indexes they track each other very closely.

HiReturns

The better way to do TLH is to sell VTI and immediately buy ITOT, which is also a total US market ETF, but follows an index from a different index provider. SCHB is a third similar but not "substantially identical" ETF. Since those ETFs are not substantially identical selling one and buying another cannot generate a wash sale. Since they are similar, selling one and buying the other leaves your portfolio basically the same.

Jayhawker23

You’re not investing enough money to warrant picking individual stocks. Just buy a good ETF. I’m personally fond of QQQ but the VOO and VTI you mentioned are solid, too.

4leafplover

If you have VTI only you’d have to wait 30 days before re-investing. Not the end of the world, but you may miss out on a quick rebound.

sevseg_decoder

Before I’d do this I’d consider finding yourself a play for the rate hikes. For example I’ve taken my tiny MAIN position and turned it into a fairly sizable hedge against rates hiking since the first covid bill got announced, and now I’m much less worried about the effects of rates rising or VTI going flat, and if none of the above happens (impossible) then I’ll let this hedge add to my investment sizes in other growth picks through its dividend

Vast_Cricket

If it was 2021 I will say go for it. Your 85% pot in VTI or VOO will not return that stellar. Banking analysts think this year it will print >7%. That will also affect your tech stock 2022 return. You should include a MSCi quality etf more diversified. 400 etc. FAANG used to drive up VOO price, In 2022 due to rotation the smaller mid cap may stand out. I will also you look at consumer staple sector more. With high inflation it will be harder to borrow which will keep tech sector lower profile.

D1NK4Life

This is why I’m VTI till I die.

Saddened_Umbreon

this as well. plus, reddit is a hivemind so it's less of DD and moreso whatever the current trend or hivemind majority says. if you go on r/investing, you'll see people talk about how you are best in ETFs like VTI. r/stocks will tell you to put it in some random stock or something r/dividends will tell you how dividends are the best and why you should buy QYLD and downvote you for saying otherwise. every sub is its own hivemind and you won't get any real advice. it's like going to an apple store and asking them what phone you should buy, and coming out surprised when you get recommended an iPhone.

Blade3colorado

I have almost zero concern on what your parents did (see below). Essentially, this is an extremely short time frame (12/7/21) and it is concurrent with the recent downturn in the market. Expense ratio is high though. I would probably consider VOO or VTI for their expense ratios, but dollars to donuts - they are down too in the same period.

Blade3colorado

Get rid of the financial advisor. Per your portfolio, he's giving you dogshit advice . . . moreover, he's probably "churning" your account to pad his fees, i.e., what Samomac97 said below is spot on regarding this dude and VTI. Me? I didn't touch individual stocks until I had at least $10k accumulated in funds. I am no brainiac, but I did retire early years ago and have amassed a small fortune investing in equities and real estate.

Blade3colorado

The good news? You have a great attitude and want to learn. Furthermore, it looks like you have a total of $500 invested . . . The bad news? They're all dog shit stocks. As others have said, sell everything and start over, but this time, invest in an ETF, such as VTI or VOO. You probably are NOT going to pay attention to this advice, i.e., you'll go out and try your hand at other individual stocks again. Big mistake. There are zero "get rich quick" schemes available, e.g., options carry a 94% failure rate. Similarly, investing such a small amount on a few equities as you've done, exponentially increases the risk of failure . . . thus my recommendation that you buy an ETF. I say the aforementioned because I know - I retired early years ago after a successful career. Concurrent with that, I invested wisely - no individual stocks until I had amassed $10k plus in ETF and mutual funds . . . Today, I have $1 million plus in cash; coupled with $4 million in various investments, including real estate. Most of the successful investors here have done the same or are on the same track. Good luck going forward!

ORS823

If you only have VTI, you buy and hold, there's no tax loss harvesting. Tax loss harvesting only occurs when you have losses.

sevseg_decoder

Just out of curiosity, and this assumes you are 100% VTI overall and don’t have some more accounts with stocks, why bother being here?

makaros622

VTI is safer

zonestarx

I’m all in on VTI, and I pump it every chance I get even in 2022. It’s a 25-30 year hold. I’ll be fine and so will you.

natcaox

First congrats on opening an retirement account at your age. Second from what I looked up it’s a leveraged FANG etf. There has been a tech pullback recently and this is a leveraged etf meaning you feel it worse. However it should come back and you have time. My concern is the expense ratio at .95%. That’s kinda high and will eat profits in the future. I would look at diversifying into other etf like total market and a and P. VTI and VOO are cheap to own. Also if you like tech maybe QQQ for that exposure Hope this helps. .

gattaca1usa

Im doing the same thing because I can inly contribute $6000max in Roth Ira and I split VTI/QQQM each and I fell like I can contribute more to them and if I need to withdraw it as a las resort I can in my brokerage account

geniusrafaelus

VOO, VTI, TSLA, and AAPL. Currently considering about 5 more. Hey, if it turns out I'm wrong and you short it and win, congratulations!!

NinjaKeyLime

70% VTI 30% Water etfs FIW/AQWA. The water etfs were down a lot so I had to buy

Severe-Turn1604

I'm rolling with QQQM, VTI and VYM. Might add VOO in the future

No_Indication996

Sounds fine to me. I am doing something similar. My 401k is not an ETF, but closely mirrors some big ones. I’m investing in VTI on my own so I can withdraw it in mid life for my own reasons sans penalties. Only reason I would say not to do it is because you’re probably getting a company march for your Roth I assume? So buying the same stocks out of that plan is devaluing your cash a a bit. You can’t take it out though so that’s the decision really is how much you need/want that money pre retirement.

geniusrafaelus

First, thank you for giving such solid advice. Ive read most recommending to derisk through ETFs. Im leaning towards keeping all positions open and any new money i put in will go into ETFs. Ive been reading up on VOO and VTI so far. Considering SPY and QQQ as well. Many thanks sir.

geniusrafaelus

Yeah VOO and VTI have been the most common references I've been given. Thank you for the advice.

the_snook

But this simply did not happen in Feb/March 2020. In the months surrounding the COVID crash, [VTI and BND were negatively correlated](https://www.buyupside.com/alphavantagelive/stockcorrelationcomputeavmonth.php?symbol1=VTI&symbol2=BND&start_month=11&start_year=2019&end_month=06&end_year=2020&submit=Calculate+Coefficient).

DrSuperHappyFace

Guess no one told him not to put too many eggs in one basket 🥚 🥚 🧺 🥚 #VTI

Grundle_Monster

Average into VTI over the next 3 months.

Supreme_Mediocrity

If you read the actual disclosure (linked inside your link) you'd see the "smoking gun" is a mutual fund (Matthews Pacific Tiger Fund) makes up 15% of his equity holdings (he also has a good chunk of bonds), and even that fund is less than 50% China AND Hong Kong. People who invest in VTI probably have a similar exposure to China. This is the biggest reach I've ever seen... Reflect on your news sources.

humbletradesman

VTI

MinnesotaPower

Someone posted last week with a portfolio that was just MSFT, AAPL, NVDA, VTI, and BTC. I've been trying to think of a portfolio that could beat it ever since, and have not been able to.

LeadershipShoddy5721

Sell them all and buy 10% btc and 90 % ETF index fund like VTI or VUG

The_Marcus_Aurelius

?? VTI's er is 0.03, which is lower than VTSAX at 0.04 I've just been using VTI mainly because Fidelity charges $50 to purchase the mutual fund version

FluffyP4ndas99

What I would recommend depending on age is a portfolio of 10% FAANG stocks, 20% HFEA(look it up its not a ticker) 35% VOO and 35% VTI, this will (hopefully) be fairly safe and stable, with some positions to grow faster as well

ekaqu1028

Sounds reasonable! For index funds try to avoid overlap; VOO and VTI are basically the same, so pick one and ignore the other. A common pattern is a 2/3 fund portfolio: US market (VOO or VTI), international markets, bonds. I personally don’t do bonds (with the negative real returns this is just less liquid cash…) or international but it’s common so felt to point out. 529 is good so you are ready when your kid gets older. If you have other kids can also change the account to them if they need the money more; only real risk is US solving the education cost… sadly feel this is low risk…. I have fidelity and you can auto invest, it’s just super clunky…. You have them pull X from your bank on fixed dates (why no bi-weekly?) the. The next day put in each stock/etf (think you need to setup for each…). Also DRIP (dividend reinvestment) isn’t on by default so sadly have to enable per stock!!!

harrison_wintergreen

MSFT because the fundamentals are stronger. Nvidia is crazy overvalued. Microsoft is just a little overvalued. but if you already have an S&P 500 index, Russell 1000 index or VTI/total market fund, you've already got a lot in Microsoft.