VTI

dontforgetpants

Thank you for sharing basically the only useful and actionable advice in this entire comment section. What do you mean by saying that SpaceX’s unusually small float is a game? Is it a gamble for them in some way? Also, will VTI and VOO definitely add SpaceX? Is there a way to find out for sure which index funds it will be added to, preferably in advance of them being added? Sorry these are such basic/beginner questions, I am very new to investing. I am looking, to the extent it is possible, to never hold SpaceX stock even in an index fund. Elon ruined the lives of many people I care about and derailed my career along the way, so I am willing to personally forego money and flexibility to not directly enrich him further. :(

throwaway815795

You can just switch to s and p index, VOO ot VTI and then wait for a good pick.

therealjerseytom

> Nobody's getting to retire early by investing in VTI. Lol I'm 41. The performance of VTI (or whatever your favorite stand-in for US market) over the time span I've been employed has been absolutely tremendous. Someone around my age who has been steadily and seriously saving and investing this whole time can absolutely be in position for early retirement. Even if it's all just VTI.

AirForceDocta

Not gonna lie, Bitcoin bros have been shitting on the SPY/VTI crowd. I feel comfortable with 70% VTI/SPY, and 30% VTIAX (international) and just letting it roll. Most of the guys I know that talk about Bitcoin all the time have shit for brains and no future thought process behind the next year. (I am NOT saying this is you!).

intelligentx5

VOO is driven by like 7 stocks, the rest is down double digits. I would go VTI/VXUS split maybe 70/30

Cryp2nyted

VOO is all large caps, if you think some small caps will do better in the long run you can also put some in VTI which also has large caps but also small caps for broader exposure.

GomaN1717

You absolutely cannot retire solely on VTI in 10 years. Are you high?

Training-Rip6463

Nobody's getting to retire early by investing in VTI. Lol

aceman97

VTI. As many dollars as you can manage every single year.

Jak1493

I see. Now it’s a matter of weither I want some protection doing VTI and vxus or just VTI for more return?

Rude_Pirate9078

Alright you sophisticated group of well intentioned strangers, have at it. Below are my asset allocations and thesis for my positions. For context I am planning to run this strategy for 20 years before moving into a glide path for retirement. Asset Allocation ​30% VTI (Broad US Market) ​35% VXUS (Broad International) ​15% AVUV (Avantis US Small-Cap Value) ​15% AVDV (Avantis Int'l Small-Cap Value) ​5% IBIT (iShares Bitcoin Trust) ​Thesis -​S&P 500 Concentration & Valuation Risk: The S&P 500 is top-heavy and expensive, with the Shiller CAPE ratio sitting around 40x. The index is dominated by mega-cap tech names, making it vulnerable to a flat or negative decade if multiples compress. Keeping VTI at 30% maintains broad U.S. market exposure while cutting back on this specific top-heavy risk (and SPCX IPO). -​Global Value and Profitability Overweight: Excluding crypto, the equity split is exactly 50/50 domestic and international. This setup captures the valuation discounts outside the U.S., where multiples are lower. Allocating 30% combined to AVUV and AVDV captures the size and value premiums, while Avantis's fundamental screens filter out unprofitable companies. This provides better immediate earnings yields in a higher-interest-rate environment. -​Sized Crypto Allocation for Total Return: IBIT is set at a 5% target. Bitcoin's high volatility means a small allocation can noticeably drive overall returns during a major market cycle, but the position size is restricted so that a severe crypto drawdown won't derail the core portfolio. What do you think?

betarhoalphadelta

Exposure to international stocks protects you from a more US-led downturn/recession. For some people that extra protection is worth forgoing returns. Just as for people nearing retirement, they often move from higher-risk equities into lower-risk bonds. It's about safety vs returns. Diversification in general is all about protection. Think of it this way. Let's say you think the fast food industry is worth investing in. So you invest in Wendy's. If Wendy's releases some new menu item that completely blows their same store sales out of the water and they suddenly make great revenue and steal market share from the rest of the fast food industry, you win big. However if Wendy's has a major supply chain E. Coli outbreak and kills a few people and gets sued and a large number of people stop going to their restaurants, you lose big. However, if you instead invest in a fast food ETF (which doesn't exist, but EATZ is a dedicated restaurant/foodservice ETF according to google), you get exposure to the entire fast food industry. Wendy's, McD's, Burger King, Taco Bell, etc etc etc. Now you don't get the upside reward of a single company doing well, but you don't get the downside risk of a single company doing poorly either. Investing in VTI is basically investing in the entirety of US publicly-traded companies. That's spreading your risk across the entire US economy, insulating you from the effects of any single company failing.

CompleteReality50

Vanguard TDF invests 50% in Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund. VTI is just the ETF equivalent of the same fund. So that’s why I mentioned VTI. With your logic, no one can ever invest in a TDF because anything can change at any point in the future. For that matter, you can’t even invest in any index fund because technically the underlying index could change the rules at any time. You have to do your own direct indexing.

CrayonUpMyNose

> don’t *really* invest in *right now* That's two phrases (my italics) in the same sentence saying "don't pay attention to what I say".  VTI is one of many funds and came to your head apropos of - nothing, apparently? Target date funds have always and will continue to mix different investment classes. Any softening of the rules to the detriment of investors is an unacceptable capitulation. I see a lot of loud "oh don't worry, it's only 0.1%" voices suddenly "totally organically" pop up telling the world that this is, like, totally fine.  Are we supposed to wait for this scam to happen a hundred more times, so that those same voices can tell us "it's now too late to do anything about it, just accept your losses"?

DarkVoid42

VTI+VXUS. nothing else.

GMVexst

There's no reason to underperform the market when you can buy the market. VT or VTI and chill

Jak1493

Hm I see. So why would someone go for diversity instead of just VTI for the potential growth? And why is it often said to diversify your portfolio?

WeakEstablishment686

I was looking for a comment like this. Are you fully allocated only to individual stocks? If so, you could just keep letting these run (especially Google) and just DCA into a combo of VTI or VOO and VXUS. My only worry with someone in their 30s is if you project 30 years out will some of these companies die out. Unlikely that multiple do and overweight your winners, but that risk exists and an ETF will naturally shield you from that.

betarhoalphadelta

Simple... VTI+VXUS does, as you state, trade some diversity for lower growth. This is a risk profile question. I'm comfortable with VTI only (and would probably be comfortable with VOO only) and trading for the potential growth. So the "core" of my holdings are VTI. That's my passive investing. Individual stocks beyond that? If you don't know what you're investing in, and why, and just doing it because people are telling you to? I wouldn't touch it. That's just gambling. It's practically blackjack, in that the odds of beating the "house", i.e. the indexes, is <50%. If you want to invest in individual stocks beyond the indexes, it takes research, formulating a thesis, and a lot of work. It's still gambling, but it's more like poker--someone who is actually talented enough can, on average, win more than they lose. But like poker, there are plenty of bad beats out there waiting to happen. Based on the limited context of your post? I'd go VTI or VTI+VXUS, and avoid individual stocks for now.

CompleteReality50

But that’s the NASDAQ100 index which Vanguard TDFs don’t really invest in right now. For VTI, they use float-adjusted market cap weighting afaik.

betarhoalphadelta

"Buy and hold" isn't for individual stocks. "Buy and hold" is for things like broad indexes / mutual funds. An S&P 500 index fund is something you buy and hold. You're already diversified, and you're just betting on the long-term growth of the economy. It's designed to be passive investing. Individual stocks, you buy when you have built a thesis that the company is worth owning, and sell when you decide that thesis has changed and it's not worth owning. That might end-up being a long-term hold. It might not. But it takes thought and research. It's active investing. IMHO, especially based on your other comment replies saying things like the below, I think your strategy is more luck than skill: >That’s the problem, I don’t have a thesis and fundamental to follow. The truth is that you have WAY too many stocks to develop a thesis on all of them, especially if you're working a full time job and trying to also do things outside of your work as most early-30s people do. You're heavy in tech, which has been good, but you're benefiting from high exposure to a sector rather than, IMHO, sound trading strategy. Even your funds (HLAL/SPUS) are heavily in tech. You likely would have done similar just throwing all your money in QQQ. If you want to develop as an investor, I'd suggest paring a bunch of this down and reinvesting them into index funds. You can do things like VOO (S&P 500) or VTI (whole US market) or QQQ (Nasdaq so tech-heavy), or even HLAL/SPUS if you have religious reasons you want those types of funds. Then, with a smaller portion of your overall investment pool, start actually figuring out how to evaluate individual companies. Work with no more than 3-5 companies. Develop a thesis on the company, a reason for investing. Before every investment part of your thesis should be the question "what would cause me to exit this investment in the future?" so you know when to spot a stock that no longer fits your thesis. IMHO that's the next step if you want to be an active "investor". And if that sounds like too much work? Just invest in the indexes and let it compound. For most people, that ends up with higher returns anyway 😉

Over-Computer-6464

The SPY/VOO is not a clear cut case. The IRS has never made a statement about what is "substantially identical" with ETFs. Many claim that VOO and SPY, although they track the same index, do not have identical holdings and therefore will not create wash sales if selling one at a loss and immediately buying the other. This is an open question. There are many more that claim that you can swap between similar ETFs that track indexes from different index providers. There are 3 or 4 major index providers. So for example, there are VTI, ITOT, and SCHB that are in total US stock market index ETFs, but technically they follow different indexes. Companies like Betterment and Wealthfront have published white papers on how they use similar, but not substantially identical, ETFs like this to tax loss harvest. The IRS has not approved, but neither have they objected.

IHadTacosYesterday

I retired last December. I'm slowly selling out of my individual stocks and building a dry powder position, but eventually I will put a bunch of the dry powder into VTI, VOO, etc.

ChrisDeP-51

Same. My portfolio was 90% RKLB so when it hit 100 I trimmed about 10k and parked it into VTI. Still holding a ton of RKLB tho.

Few-Lengthiness-2286

I’m in VOO, SOXX, and VTI mostly and am up 26% YTD. I’d say that’s pretty good and really easy investing

CornOnTheKnobs

This is a massive overreaction for the majority of popular funds that use float adjusted market cap. This considers only the shares available to the public. This is like 99.97% for Microsoft, for example, but only 3 or 4% for SpaceX. This means something like $70-$110 of SpaceX exposure per $100,000 invested for VTI/VTSAX. The whole point of index funds is that they handle exactly this kind of situation automatically.

JRcred

I would mainly do VTI. You’ll probably outperform yourself doing single stocks and a lot of other investors. I would sell TSLA, particularly if you’re up. It’s getting more mature now and priced for perfection like your Tesla will not just be a robotaxi, but mine bitcoin, and create energy while driving so you can sell it back to the grid and Tesla gets a cut of that. I’m skeptical of bitcoin. I think now during a pullback, you could buy and sell when it goes up and put profits back into VTI. UEC has a good thesis with need for energy going up much more than normal. They’re also not profitable that this point, which makes them very risky. How much would you pay for someone to lose money for you with the hope that they’d bring you a lot of money in the future? Once investors have a change in sentiment with unprofitable companies, they can go way down real fast.

ND8D

So dump VTI for VOO, got it

jcsehak

There is a cure, it’s at r/bogleheads. I learned the hard way betting into GME. Us plebes can give our money to billionaires at the casino or we can ride their coattails by DCAing into VTI (or VOO or VT or whatever you prefer).

Dash2in1

VOO follows the S&P 500. For the moment you could continue with that, until they change their policy to also fast track spaceX. VTI follows the CRSP total market index which has fast tracked it, so steer clear of that if you don't want that.

Acrobatic-Song-3151

No, Russell is right behind them and all these total mkt indexes will buy it faster than the Nasdaq. VTI will buy on day #5 and keep coming back as the float grows.  Spy is changing their rules too. Profitability no longer required. 

Viperia26

I've just switched to invest in ETF like VEA, VTI, and IEMG. Almost 5 months in and its +10%, could be higher if it weren't for my Indonesian Mutual Fund dragging down my portfolio (its -24%)

Exquisite-Load8654

Agreed. I’m a VTI guy but VOO is just as desirable.

brock2063

Tbh I'd avoid the QQQ because it's one of the funds that'll include SpaceX earlier than normal. I'd do VTI. Even if Vanguard includes it early it'll be a small position.

interbingung

I'm not concerned. VTI and chill. 

_galaga_

No problem! You’re almost there already with your VTI/VFAIX but seeing how other folks slice fund proportions up might be helpful to you. Perhaps add international (VXUS), or later on in life add bonds, that sorta thing.

Evilbred

VTI

KoiWalker

my girl puts her money in VTI and i called her a pussy

Vilgan

I'm pretty frustrated by this as someone that owns a chunk of index funds. I'm taking the following steps: 1) Rotated my 403B (teacher) to use funds that match the S&P, so that I at least have 6 months before it buys in. 2) Replacing VTI and ITOT with DFAU in my Roth and Reg IRA accounts. Sadly, I can't really touch my VTI in my taxable accounts without paying huge capital gains so that's not worth messing with. I don't mind own SpaceX eventually once the market determines a realistic price (altho will still be inflated due to Musk effect). I just have no desire to be part of an index that is buying in around the IPO.

taplar

You should be able to invest in VTI or VOO in the HSA. ?

betarhoalphadelta

Yep. I had a car (bought 2014 used in 2017, paid off and planned to keep several more years) die on me at the beginning of the year. I bought a CPO Acura and was planning to pay cash, but then saw they were offering 1.9% on CPO in Feb when I bought it... That's practically free money. VTI (which is what I put the proceeds I was planning to use of another sale into) is up about 10% in the same timeframe.

betarhoalphadelta

Agree with you. Buying used cars >>> buying new. Buying cash >>> taking on debt. I'm older and more established in my career (and make more money) so I'm not buying a used high-mile shitbox no matter what. But I don't buy new cars and would prefer to pay cash if possible compared to most used car interest rates. HOWEVER, there can be caveats. * In cases where you can buy new and get 0% interest, that may be a better option than buying a late-model low-mile used car where you're spending 4.9% (or whatever) on interest. * In cases where you get a smokin' finance deal, it can make sense to borrow. My 2014 Ford Flex died earlier this year, and I bought a 2025 Acura RDX on CPO. I was going to pay cash for it... Until I realized Acura would give me 1.9% APR financing. That's practically free money. I can make more (3.75%) leaving my money in savings at my broker--and more importantly, long-term can make more keeping it in VTI--than pulling it out to buy for cash. Remember, only Sith deal in absolutes. Buying used and paying cash is USUALLY the smartest decision. But sometimes opportunities arise that are exceptions.

swallowthesun5

Hi everyone, question for HSA investing: From a previous employer, my wife qualified for an HSA account. By the time she left there was $1200 in the account. Her new job as well as mine offered FSAs so instead of using that $1200 I put it into a total market for a while. Since this account can't be added to anymore, I took a swing at RKLB @ $16 and bought 107 shares. So now its sitting at $15K in the HSA account. What is the best way deal with HSA gains? I'd like to secure what has worked so far but also need it to grow in the market since I can't add to it. I'm pretty much a novice if it isn't obvious. Any other investments are typcial VTI, VOO etc. I'm not a 'ROCKET LAB TO THE MOON' guy, just someone who took a swing, so the investment wasn't really based on DD, and even if it was my DD wouldn't be very effective. Thanks for any advice

WeeklySignalLog01

practically.... VTI otherwise, SNDK, MU, LITE, WDC, STX

detsl

VTI

Adventurous_Paint349

Move 500k into S&P 500 or VTI and gamble with the rest

GameOfThrownaws

You're a child so I'll go a little easy here. Keeping a bit of one stock instead of dumping it all and buying all of another stock is not "diversifying". You didn't learn anything useful, because this is not some replicable situation that you'll be equipped to understand, discern, and handle better next time. This was all completely random. What you actually learned is what it feels like to gamble and win. And that is *not* a good thing to learn. That's a feeling that has ruined a lot of peoples' lives before you. People smarter than you, people dumber than you. It's an extremely powerful, primal part of the human brain. You're not going to listen to me because you're 16 and I'm some random asshole on the internet, but I'm going to say it anyway: stop doing this immediately. Take your $1100, put it in VTI, and don't think about it again. If you want to generate free money from investing, then go get a job, and dump a few hundred more dollars into VTI every couple of weeks while you still live at home and have no rent or bills. It won't be fast, it won't be sexy, you won't be the wolf of wallstreet and get to bang Margot Robbie. But one day you'll be 32 years old and you'll be absolutely insanely ahead of all your peers because you learned how to invest correctly when you were 16. Now go ahead and ignore all that and go buy more AI stocks because you definitely know better.

Vlisa

Like losing money to inflation? Like why not just throw everything into VTI or even like a traditional 60/40 port at that point?

Spirited-Manner9674

VTI.

Holiday_Tradition639

Nice take profits when it’s worth screenshotting, I’ve went semi safe into VTI and VXUS for good world spread

Dismal-Squash-2222

Your decision also depends on how much money we are talking about. If it's only a few thousand or even a hundred thousand, that's not very much and it might be worth the risk to let it ride. What is your income? That's another factor as well. if your profits are in the millions or high hundreds, then yeah, take the profits, because that money invested in the VTI will compound very quickly and be life changing. So you can transfer the profits, or at least part of them, somewhere safe.

therealjerseytom

> Missing a hot sector? If you have VOO or VTI you have all the sectors, dude. This looks like just buying a bunch of stuff without any sort of specific goal or plan.

HaileyMay

Your diversification is lower than it looks because VTI, VFIAX, the C Fund, and a large cap index fund are all heavily overlapping. That said, at 35 with a pension, a solid cash reserve, and over $190k in broad index funds, I'd be more focused on increasing contributions than adding complexity. The portfolio itself doesn't strike me as risky so much as very concentrated in US large caps.

Double_Suggestion385

VTI is bordline boomer retirement holdings. If you are under 45 you should have most of your holdings in QQQ.

FinallyArt

You're not showing any money market funds, If that means you have little cash I would take some profits tomorrow and go 25% t-bill / money market. With five more years those index funds should be fine though I'd shift a lot into VTI or something equally conservative when closer to retirement.

Bartholomew_Butkus

VTI ad VYM may be your answer.

Enough-Fondant-4232

Thank you! (And thank you for putting up with a bit of bragging on my part.) "VTI is the ticker symbol for the **Vanguard Total Stock Market ETF"** Good advice. I have my money at Schwab. I will see if they have something simular.

pao_zinho

You’re heavily exposed to some high risk stocks at your age. I would go SP500 or maybe even something with more equal weighting like VTI. Congrats on the big gains 

Survivor301

Watched VTI sit in my roth and return nothing for months. Sold all of it 2 weeks ago and bought NBIS, DRAM, ASTS, and a few others, already up over 10k in a few weeks.

TechIsTheFuture26

That's not true at all. Don't be a dumbass, invest in good tech, and VTI fucking blows. I wasted YEARS in that bullshit.

Wisesize

VTI is for my Roth. I have another portfolio that strictly options/gambling. You can do both!

JohnathanTaylor

Chase the money and you'll likely never retire. VTI rules, don't let the comparison to be the thief of joy

pain474

Every fucking day I watch these stocks in disbelief, how they are all up like 300% this year or more and I just sit there with my stupid VTI portfolio when I could've retired 10 years earlier

wampum

I’ll be a forced buyer when it’s included in the broad based ETFs, but the overall impact should be negligible since I’m mostly sleepy VTI Fortunately, SpaceX is projected to carry only 0.07%–0.11% weight in the CRSP Total Market index (VTI) due to float-adjustment. The index weight is limited by the low public float, not the headline market cap

OpenGuard1993

It’s why I diversified to VTI and DFUS. DFUS is a good hold for the forced buying reason.

Luxferro

As long as you're a long time investor don't be scared about down periods. Those are the best times to buy at lower prices. You being down scared you from investing when you should have looked at it as a better time to invest more. Over time the whole market index goes up. Zoom out on VTI and you'll see.

Cloud2987

I’m the opposite, I went from individual stocks to mainly ETFs. I currently have VTI, QQQM (ETFs) AMZN, META, GOOG (MEGA CAP), and TSLA and RKLB (Speculative). I didn’t do that well chasing individual stocks, so I still closer to sure things.

insbordnat

1. you're assuming a fully amortizing loan, which typically with some track record/relationship (especially at 60% LTV) you're IO. If fully amortizing is the play, there's no reason you wouldn't lever to 80%. You'd also be doing 2-3 refis at that time (assuming fully amortizing) resetting LTV to 80% each time. 2. no real estate loans are 20 year amort, they're all 30 or 15. Thus your monthly amort is wrong even if you assume fully amortizing. That alone is a massive difference. under your metrics with 30 year amort that's $2177 net profit annually (Y1), which is a 7.6% current yield vs. the 1% from VTI. Talking current yield, not annualized returns - see below for the "annualized" returns. Thus, when all is said and done (in year 20) for a 130k investment using all of your assumptions (no refi in these): * 718k VTI, 8.8% IRR, MOIC 5.5x * 960k 60% LTV, 10.1% IRR, MOIC 6.7x * 1.7mm 80% LTV, 13.4% IRR, MOIC 12.3x The massive difference is coming from the higher current yield and future reinvestment. 1-2% reinvestment on current income on broad index funds doesn't nearly match the future benefit.

8370U

70% into VTI and 30% into VXUS.. Set auto deposits and auto investments at that ratio.

bbawdhellyeah

My DCA into VTI SCHG and VXUS at $500/week lol

JRshoe1997

Defense like ABT and NOC. Market is way too hot right now. Still doing weekly buys of VTI though.

DarkVoid42

VXUS+VTI. go find another hobby.

Downtown_Extension_6

Hey, sounds like you're in a great spot — $14k in profit on a diversified portfolio is solid. The "cash on the sidelines" anxiety is real and very common. I built **ProspectAI** (https://prospect-ai.moisesprat.dev) specifically for situations like yours. It's a multi-agent AI pipeline that does in \~2 minutes what would take hours manually:   1. **Scans Reddit + financial forums** to find the stocks retail investors are actually talking about (not just what Wall Street pushes)   2. **Runs 13+ technical indicators** (RSI, MACD, Bollinger Bands, ATR, etc.) to assess momentum and entry timing   3. **Grades fundamentals** — P/E, margins, FCF, revenue growth — so you're not buying hype   4. **Generates a composite score** (0–100) weighing sentiment, momentum, and fundamentals   5. **Produces a portfolio allocation** with specific entry zones, stop-losses, and take-profit targets   For your situation — $25k in cash, already holding VTI/QQQ/VXUS as your core — ProspectAI would identify *which sectors or individual stocks* are showing strong momentum right now with favorable risk/reward setups, and give you concrete entry prices rather than "just do it" or "wait." It's sector-specific: Technology, Semiconductors, Healthcare, Finance, Energy, Consumer, Industrials, Real Estate, Utilities. You tell it the sector, it does the research, and an adversarial critic agent challenges the recommendations before you see them.     The pipeline runs end-to-end in under 2 minutes and gives you actionable positions with entry/stop/target — not just vibes.

fakieTreFlip

VTI and chill. Don't bother trying to stock pick or time the market, that's all just gambling, not investing

mathaiser

I had MU from 80 to 92 down to 68 with the “memory” chip longterm play in mind. After a few years of holding, I gave up when it finally went to 83-84 above my entry. If only I was patient. I just went full pull on VTI and said slow and steady is fine with me. But I’m having severe FOMO and missed opportunity right now. I think the rotation into commodities is next. Shit is about to get even more expensive for the common man. Steel, wood, oil, etc. but I don’t know anything.

Pretend-Ad-9504

In my area, right now, you could not buy a turnkey property (assuming 60% LTV) and be able to charge enough for rent to not be operating at an annual loss, especially if you’re in a higher tax bracket already and not doing RE full time, which is presumably the case for most people investing in real estate. You’re not going to get into it if you don’t already have a stable income. EXAMPLE (from my area): • Property price: $325,000 • 60% LTV = $195,000 financed, $130,000 DP • 6.5% / 20 years = $1,454/month (~$17,448/yr) —————— In my area market, you could reasonably expect to collect $2400/month — max — more than likely it’d be $2200, but let’s assume a best case for this example. And let’s actually take all reasonable expenses into account. Annual rent collected: $28,800 Vacancy (5%): -$1,440 Property management (9%): -$2,592 Property tax (est. 1.2%): -$3,900 Insurance: -$1,500 Maintenance reserve (remember roof?): -$2,400 Effective net income: $16,968 Mortgage payment: -$17,448 Net cash flow: -$480/yr ————————— Now, let’s say you can depreciate $260,000. Maybe there’s a big tax advantage?? Net annual rental income: $16,968 Mortgage interest (yr 1 est.): -$12,480 Depreciation: -$9,455 Taxable rental income/loss: -$4,967 (paper loss) ————————- Because most passive RE investors are in a higher income bracket, it’s considered passive income —- so passive losses can’t offset ordinary income. So, losses like this won’t materialize really until the property sells. —————————- Now, this same $130,000 invested in something like VTI or VOO would generate $9000/annual on average. And it’s 100% liquid, well diversified, not tied to one local economy, and involves zero local assholes. You can also invest more into a fund without worrying about who will be available to fix its toilets. VTI also isn’t at risk of a squirrel eating a hole in the siding so rain water pours in over 12 months and ruins two-stories of sheathing. —————————- For me personally, someone in a higher income bracket, RE seems like such a massive headache. In the end, with all the “advantages”, even if RE is barely ahead of VTI, what a pain to get to almost the same result. I would much rather spend time on other endeavors, than fighting with materials and people.

youskippedLegDay

Am I okay or should I diversify?? I started investing in 2019 and I didn’t really know what I was doing (still don’t lol). I’m a 35 year old, living in North Carolina. Here’s what I currently have, any advice is greatly appreciated!! Vanguard money market (HYSA)- $51,427 Vanguard Brokerage - VTI $90,882 vanguard Roth IRA - VFIAX $74,882 Employer 401k - NC Large Cap index fund - $18,488 Roth TSP - C fund $7647 Here’s more info about me if that helps. I’m married and we have a 3yr old. I’m a state employee, making just under $69k, 13 years of time in service. I no longer contribute to the employer 401k because there is no match, I am required to contribute to the pension plan though. I’m no longer in the military, so I do not contribute to the TSP either. Wife works part time and has $55k in her Roth IRA and $32k in her old employer’s 401k. I can safely begin contributing around $1500 per month towards investments, I’m just not sure what I should begin to invest in.

anteatertrashbin

VTI. end of story for me…. sorry so boring…

derprondo

Anyone that held past late 2024 goofed bigly. I sold all mine at $98k, put it all in VTI, and VTI is up 26% since then. If I had held the BTC I’d be down 25%.

insbordnat

Sure, mortgage rates are 6.5% now, but they weren't over the past 20 years (was actually 4.8%). To be conservative I used 6% factoring in rental use etc. Even going back to 2000 it was 5.2%. That massive gain in VTI wasn't from high interest rates...if you think VTI would have returned what it did with interest rates at a steady 6-6.5%, without QE, without rates being at historic lows, earnings are coming down and terminal values are picking up 150-300bps = values are shifting and we're not seeing 11% TSR, more like 8-9% or lower. On yields...let's math it out - unlevered, you're buying at a 6 cap, so definitionally you're starting at 6%, which grows over time as rent increases, offset by capex/LCs/etc. you have about a 2% average spread vs. debt over the term, and debt/equity \~1.5x assuming a 60% LTV (60/40). 6%+(2%\*(1.5)) = 9% levered yield...

anarchy_pizza

Yep i recently gave in and started following what I thought was horrendous advice and I’m green on all of it. Selling and into VTI with the profits until the next regarded tips come out.

InjuryEmbarrassed532

Anything you need for the house in the next 5 years should be mostly in treasuries, money market or CD accounts. Put everything else into VTI, don’t listen to the stock picking nut jobs here.

insbordnat

Factoring in all of that plus the benefit of real estate being a leverage play, you're ahead in RE. You missed another thing: you're getting 9-11% levered yields annually vs. the \~1-2% you're getting on VTI. That's after lease commission every 2 years, your capex, and other improvements/repairs. Reinvest that into VTI if you want to be conservative, or you roll that into your next property. Income growth alone (just throwing into VTI) and you have $1mm, plus another $1mm on the house appreciation assuming you're investing $250k at 60% LTV ($625k house, 6% cap, 4.3% growth, 6% debt cost). You're getting decent benefits from depreciation writeoffs every year that you're only getting hit with recapture in Y20. You're sitting then on a 7-8x MOIC vs. the \~6x for VTI (both tax effected). Take leverage up to 70% and you're at a \~9x multiple. Never mind you then 1031 that and defer taxes even more, or indefinitely. Index funds are great for people that like you said are "doing literally nothing". But you also have zero chance of outperforming every other person, you're really just keeping up with inflation plus making a small risk premium. You're also way overblowing the other perils, those are pretty minor risks that I have exposure for outside of tenant credit. I've been in real estate a long time, and yeah, if you're not having it managed and you're taking on PM yourself, sure, you may get the odd call from time to time. I'm also not renting to shitty tenants.

ski-dad

Legitimately curious what people think the evil plan is - Musk sells and just puts his proceeds in what? VTI and chill?

Valuable-Analyst-464

I was basically 95% equities my whole investing career. I read up on bonds and made the mistake of diversifying with them at too young an age. I am not sure what’s in your brokerage and what’s in the HYSA…maybe locking too much away. Before reallocating in the taxable account, maybe reset your retirement accounts. I would say VT or 75/25 (VOO or VTI)/VXUS.

gnetc

Just put it in a diversified ETF like VTI or VT, Dimensional has good funds as well that are great. If you don’t plan on touching the money for the next 20 years a correction isn’t really going to matter.

Pretend-Ad-9504

If you invested $250,000 in a rental and held it for 20 years, the rental would appreciate ~2%-5% annually, if the tenants didn’t destroy the home and if the neighborhood didn’t go to shit. You would most certainly be liable for at least 1 roof ($20,000), 1 HVAC overhaul ($8000), and 1 set of new kitchen appliances ($5000). Odds are, the interior will need to be painted twice, and the floors/carpeting redone at least twice, depending on the floors. This is outside of the unknowns (potential water damage, foundation issues, etc). You will most likely need to find new tenants at least 10 times. You will most likely find yourself in court at least once. After 20 years, you may be able to sell the house for between $500,000 - $750,000. If you invested $250,000 in VTI and held it for 20 years, you would have between $1,100,000 - $1,600,000. And you did literally nothing along the way.

Vlisa

AI DCA’s into VTI/VOO. Beats 95% of its users previous gains.

DoinIt4DaShorteez

I don't know about cost effectiveness, if you are comparing VTI to a mutual fund that had the same portoflio, it would come down to fees. The ability to be able to buy or sell during market hours, and be able to immediately use the sales proceeds to buy something else gives the ETF the advantage IMO. If you are investing in VTI on a regular basis, market vs limit is really not going to be of any consequence. You're going to get filled at the Ask which is normally going to be a penny or two. Who cares, what are you going to do, babysit a limit order at the Bid to save a penny?

Vlisa

Watch it just DCA into VOO/VTI.

Illustrious-Option-9

Doesn't have to be VOO. Can be VTI.

derprondo

I was just looking at my kids’ college fund account that’s all VTI and funded by selling all my BTC in late 2024, it’s up 26% and if I had held the BTC I’d be down 25% instead.

KeySwing3

So how should we be investing then? Is there something better than just holding and dcaing into VTI?

Mzungufarmer

My favorite part about real estate has been the leverage. When I was an E5 in the air force I was able to put 0 down on a 4 plex and then a total of 90k down on two duplexes and a triplex. That was back in 2015, sold the 2 duplexes and triplex a couple years back 2.5x what I paid for. The quadplex i put 0 down on was worth 350k at the time and is now valued over 1 million. And thats not mentioning all the rent I brought in throughout the years. If I just invested 90k in VTI, it would be worth what 400k now?

dynamic-burrito

Why do I leave my money in VTI

InvisibleEar

I'm 50/50 VTI/VXUS equivalents 😈

LegitosaurusRex

I literally had $16k in student loans (-16k Net Worth) 10 years ago after college… now I have $2.6 million mostly just sitting in VTI and VXUS. I buy a contract here and there for fun. Income has mostly been around $200k-$375k. Pay my own rent cause I'm not a poor. Drive a 2016 Honda civic coupe and like it. Boom. $2.6 million.

Mouse0022

and its unlikely an index like VOO and VTI won't bounce back up. By the time you get the signal to get back in the market, you already missed the bounce. Just put the money in, DCA, and wait it out. Another way to look at it, if you see a big drop and you're seeing losses in VOO/VTI, then that just means it's a time to buy more. Buy and hold. Do not sell.

Mouse0022

Buy SMH or SOXX. and just hold. If you buy any individual stocks, can't really go wrong with GOOGL, NVDA, and AAPL. Besides that, VTI and VXUS and chill. Know your risk tolerance. Don't go big into anything speculative. Look at it like lottery tickets, put in as much as you can handle if it went to $0. Don't put in more than you can handle losing. One thing to remember on a red day is that you only lose if you sell. Sometimes you just have to hold onto the ride and ride it out. Don't be a perpetual bear.

Alwaysfavoriteasian

I started with "VTI or die" and my brother stock picks. He kept telling me pltr will go parabolic and I thought, yea ok bud. It made me change my mind. Hold what I have in index and stock pick only things I research and companies that have proven their fundamentals over and over. Last year it worked so well! This year I just feel so dumb and I'm way behind even the s and p. It's killer.