VTI

Far-Doctor3527

TLDR: VT and chill Hello, responding here because I am also unhappy that my passive funds will buy SpaceX. I have decided to not take any action regarding the SpaceX IPO, and accepting that my funds will buy it even though this IPO seems like an obvious grift. I am not trying to convince you to take action or not take action, just explaining my reasoning because this IPO has made me worry about my portfolio and maybe this will be helpful to you in your own decision. First let's understand what types of funds could be affected by the IPO: \- Total world market funds (VT and the like). These track the total world's equities market, which is roughly $154 trillion in market cap. \- Total US market funds (FSKAX, FZEROX, VTI, VTSAX, and the like). These track the total US equities market, which is roughly $77 trillion in market cap. \- S&P 500 funds (FXAIX, VOO, and the like). These track the largest 500 companies in the US by market cap, which total to about $62 trillion. Note that this is about 80% of the total market. \- S&P 100 funds / Mega cap funds (FGRTX, QQQ, and the like). These track roughly the top 100 companies in the US, totaling roughly $55 trillion. Note that this is roughly 70% of the total market, and roughly 89% of the S&P 500 \- Large cap funds (FNILX, FSPGX, and the like). These are functionally equivalent to the S&P 500 so I will not add anything here, they may be slightly larger or smaller percent of the total market than the S&P 500 depending on holdings. \- Mid cap, small cap, and international funds: unaffected The first thing you want to think about is: what are you invested in? You don't have to go super granular but most passive investors have their investments in some version of the above funds. Are you more of a total market person, or more S&P 100? It doesn't matter which one you are, but take a look at your portfolio and understand what you are invested in. Now let's assume SpaceX does IPO at $2 trillion and let's look at how the SpaceX IPO affects the broad categories: \- Total World Market Funds: 2 / 154 = 1.2% of the total world market \- Total US Market Funds: 2 / 77 = 2.6% of the total US market \- S&P 500 and other large caps: 2 / 62 = 3.2% of the S&P 500 \- S&P 100 and other mega caps: 2 / 55 = 3.6% of the S&P 100 Now let's assume that the worst case happens: SpaceX IPOs at 2 trillion, and then the price goes literally to 0. If you are mostly in total market funds, your portfolio would go down by 2.6%. If you are mostly in large cap funds, your portfolio would go down by 3.2%. If you are mostly in mega caps, your portfolio would go down by 3.6%. But let's be realistic, even with this IPO likely being an Elon grift, do we really think this is going to 0? I don't. Maybe it loses 50% of its price, maybe 80%, I don't know. But it's a real company with real revenue (though small revenue compared to its huge valuation), so it's not going to 0. I'm not going to redo all the calcs but just for example, assuming it goes down by 50% and you are mostly in S&P 500 funds, your portfolio would go down by 1.6%. But here is the biggest consideration: 100% of SpaceX is not going to be publicly tradable. We don't know exactly what the percent it is going to be but likely only like 5%. This means that the indexes will only track 5% of SpaceX's market cap. So assuming SpaceX IPOs at 2 trillion and goes down by 50% and you are mostly in S&P 500 funds, your portfolio would go down by (2 \* .05)/62 = .16%. To be clear, this is like a fifth of a percent, which is inconsequential, the market moves more than this on a daily basis. Another point: I don't know what is going to happen in the future: I don't know if SpaceX's price will actually shoot up for whatever reason, so as an uninformed person, I think actively shorting SpaceX is not a good idea. Remember the famous quote "the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent". I am a regular person and don't have any privileged information about what is going on with SpaceX so I think shorting it would be equally risky to shorting any other company that doesn't have a high-profile controversial figurehead as Elon Musk, which is something I wouldn't do (and likely something other passive investors wouldn't do either). At the end of the day, passive investors get to benefit from all of the companies in the market without having to do the work of researching and understanding each business, and making bets about which one will go up or down. We have benefitted from all the other great businesses that have continued to skyrocket without having to use a second of time to evaluate them. If you want to take action against the SpaceX IPO that is totally ok, but you could be introducing complexity to your portfolio, and spending your valuable time thinking about how to hedge against something that will impact your portfolio less than regular daily market fluctuations. Again, not trying to convince you one way or another, and to reiterate, I am not happy that I will be buying into this IPO passively because I do think it is a grift, but by looking at the actual numbers I have decided that this is not consequential. So to summarize all of this information, even though I am more of a Fidelity stan than Vanguard, "VT and chill".

username10983

From what I understand, S&P total market (tracked by ITOT or XTOT in Canada) and CRSP total market (tracked by VTI or VUN in Canada) indexes use free float cap weighting. If a company goes public with a low float like 5%, even if the total company has a huge market cap, the effective cap in the index funds will be much lower. Now this doesn't fully avoid the company, but it does lessen the weight significantly over using the full market cap. You can look up the index methodologies on the index providers homepages.

shortvol_trader

The logic is sound and this is actually one of the cleanest applications of CSPs — you genuinely want the shares, you have a defined cost basis target, and SGOV covers you while you wait. The math works. The one thing you're partially missing: your 16.5% annualized assumes continuous assignment avoidance and redeployment at similar premium levels. In practice VTI's IV compresses during bull runs — the same $355 strike might only pay $1.50 in 3 months if volatility drops, which changes your annualized yield significantly. The other consideration is the California tax treatment on options premium. Short-term gains on collected premium are taxed as ordinary income in CA, not at the LTCG rate. Your 35% reserve for taxes on the underlying may need to be higher on the premium portion depending on your bracket. The scenario where this hurts most is a slow grind up in VTI — you keep collecting 1% monthly while VTI appreciates 2-3% monthly, and you never get assigned but also never participate in the gains. The opportunity cost compounds quietly. Otherwise this is a well-reasoned strategy for your specific situation. The fact that assignment is genuinely acceptable to you is the key variable that makes it work.

A_Guy_Trading

How to avoid the bullshit that is SpaceX: Buy these 3 as your long port: 60% VTI 25% SCHG 15% SCHD Set it and forget it forever. For the short port, just full port shorting it and then add all the profit to your long port.

A_Guy_Trading

you can just hold VTI. VTI will only hold .11% at most, and even a total collapse of spacex would drag VTI down .03% AT WORST. It's insignificant.

D3AtHpAcIt0

That’s a funny allocation, good contender for the annual VTI award of miniature holdings. I got a similar one, one singular share of BAC that I bought when I first made my brokerage account. The 30 cent dividends are nice at least

EvictionSpecialist

I dunno man..if I was 60, I’d still be in VTI and VOO.

rackemronnie7

Appreciate the link. The real challenge is funds like VTI adjusting for free float, but with SpaceX's tiny 3-5% public float, the index exposure stays manageable regardless.

InvestingNerd2020

I'm not a fan of overplaying my hand in sector ETFs. However, making it 30% of your portfolio is fine. Example in a taxable brokerage account: \- 70% VTI or SCHB \- 30% SOXX. Could be replaced with FTEC or QQQ.

pandadogunited

AVUS is a total market fund and VOO isn't. You should be comparing it to a total market passive fund like VTI, which it has outperformed.

Pure4Choice

Funds that pay dividends (VTI, VOO, etc)

Various_Couple_764

IF your growth investor Using growth index funds there is one group of energy companes that are not included in your growth index funds. Master Limited Partnershps (MLPs) VTI should have hen but doesn't. Some may be big enough fro S& P500 but still they are not there. Why MLPs generate K1 tax forms which means this complicates the funds taxes and thus increases expenses. But that said MLP also pay a higher dividend than most companes and and some have growth. Soif you OWN VTI or other growth index you might consider adding theseA ETF or CEF that holds these companes. I hav EMO 9% yeild. Note since the fund has to handle and pay any tax related to the K1 tax forms. So you don't have to. There are many funds that invest in MLP. MPLs gernallly own oil and gas pipelines and some oil and gas refinereses.

Standard-Top-5942

The worse thing about America is how profit focused everything is (companies, work schedules, healthcare). It's like that more than any place in the world probably. This makes the stock market I think a decent bet for the long term. That, and the fact that the S&P 500 gets like most of their profits from abroad, makes me a 100% S&P investor (or 100% VTI).

wandererarkhamknight

One thing these articles conveniently fail to mention is what is the approximate % of VOO, VTI they will be. Because if they mention it, the article will be big nothing burger!

harpers25

Dear lord, stop getting your entire worldview from Reddit comments. Many index funds have always had fast entry, including VT / VTI. SpaceX will be less than 1% of these kinds of funds. It's still float weighted.

The-zKR0N0S

SpaceX will become ~0.15% of VTI. It doesn’t really matter.

ReformedBlackPerson

The double real issue is that VTI is float adjusted and SpaceX is only floating 5% from what I’ve heard, so it’d only be like 0.05 or 0.1% of VTI which IMO is not enough to make me want to dump it before the IPO.

Technical-Fly-6835

Just check performance of VTI over last 5 years. It tracks sp500. So if top 500 companies are doing well then VTI is up. If they all are doing poorly then we have bigger problems.

Agreeable-Bee-3449

Not a financial advisor but I like to do a core + satellite approach. Where the bulk of my money is in a broad index etf (like VOO or VTI, VXUS, VT etc) and then I supplement that with more risky individual investments. My satellite rn is GOOG, MSFT, MU and RKLB

the__storm

Yep, NASDAQ is not the only one affected - CRSP (tracked by VTI and many other Vanguard funds) changed their rules earlier this year: https://www.crsp.org/crsp-market-indexes-changes-to-float-shares-investability-screen/

BottleMedium881

At 30, I’d keep it boring. In taxable, VTI is usually a great core because it gives you the whole US market and is tax-efficient. VOO is fine too, but holding both doesn’t add much since they overlap heavily. Since your Roth is already 80/20 US/international, you could mirror that with VTI + VXUS in taxable and focus on consistency, low costs, and not tinkering.

fec2245

Based on the small free-float it's going to be something like 0.15% of an index like VTI. There's far to much consternation about this, it isn't going to have a noticable effect even if it drops in half over the first year.

grandpa2390

I bought Nvidia because everyone wanted Nvidia, and then when the Crypto coins started taking off I saw, everyone wanted Nvidia. and then AI was starting to happen and everyone wanted Nvidia. so much that an entire country was not allowed to buy the best chips. so I just kept adding to my position. I didn't buy enough to become a millionaire, mind you And as Nvidia succeeded, I had enough conviction in the industry to buy other names like MU and AMD. Not enough to become a millionaire. But enough that it has allowed me to beat VTI and VOO had I bought that instead.

otterbarks

You need to look in the fund's prospectus, and see what benchmark index methodology they're using. Again using VTI as a convenient example just because I was digging through it recently (for this same reason), this is what their documents say: "The Fund’s Target Index, the CRSP US Total Market Index, **is a float-adjusted market cap weighted index**."

otterbarks

Avoid QQQ(M), since the Nasdaq-100 significantly changed their rules in a way that exposes you to more SpaceX. Outside of that, most other index funds (VTI, etc.) are free-float adjusted. One of the games SpaceX is playing is they're structured with an unusually small float (just 3-5%), which surprisingly offers some protection because those funds will automatically scale down their investment in SpaceX to match. At 5% they'll treat it as a $50B to $100B company, instead of $1.5T. See: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Bogleheads/comments/1tkxhpl/protecting\_ourselves\_from\_spacex\_ipo/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bogleheads/comments/1tkxhpl/protecting_ourselves_from_spacex_ipo/)

trix_is_for_kids

What’s your age/ time horizon? If it’s 20+ years I’d go 80/20 VOO/ VXUS. Could go 80/20 VTI/VXUS for more exposure/ safety or just 100% VTI. But if your timeframe is 20+ I’d suggest the more aggressive approach.

Informal-Lime6396

I'm of the opinion that 30 is young, and target date funds and bonds have no place in your 30-year retirement portfolio. I used https://www.etfrc.com/funds/overlap.php VOO and VTI are basically almost the same. Overlap: 88% by weight, 497 # of overlapping holdings I argue for replacing the target date fund and bond allocations for some sector ETF like VGT and SMH/SOXX. As you near retirement, you can rebalance tax free towards bonds and a more Boglehead-like portfolio. But while you're in your prime earning years, I think you can stomach the volatility for bigger returns.

TradeWithTheWind48

I can wholeheartedly say, Dub is full of lag. I invested $2,000 into 3 different high-performing portfolios and while the first few months were in the green, I ended up in the red by 15% after 6 months. Once I started seeing the red, and delays on my trade copies vs when the creator shared their trade, I knew it was time to get out. I even spent $90 on their premium plan before they reformatted it. Not worth it, I've made more by being boring and investing into VTI.

Icy-Sheepherder-7595

I'm working with much less capital than you but I've been struggling with the same emotional selling and poor timing. I keep trying to tell myself it is what it is and it's a lesson pretty much every investor has to learn at some point. Nobody's line ever just goes straight up. I recently took a $7k loss on LULU after finally deciding I was done with it after holding and averaging down for almost 2 years, then I see it starting to move up again although the value is still way off its highs, I sold MELI a few weeks ago and again that's going back up, sold out of half my UNH position at the bottom and lost a little money despite knowing I bought in really cheap and probably could've held it all, I made $4k instead of the $10k I should have had I held. The thing is though you have to move on once you sell a stock. Beating yourself up and, I'm guilty of it, I made a similar post in the value investing sub about how over the last few years I traded like $300k just to barely break even, but beating yourself up and dwelling does no good for your mental health or investing strategy it will only cause you to keep losing money. Not financial advice in the slightest but I think if you let go of META and MSFT you'll find yourself feeling sad again once they go back up. MSFT is my largest position so far and I'm not selling until it at least doubles which could take time but I don't think as much as the projections are showing. If it drops below my entry price of just under $400 again I'm loading the boat. It's the one stock I have 100% conviction in right now they'll never go away, corporate America runs on their products I wouldn't bet against that at all. META is riskier but I hold that too although much less. Earnings are good, no reason the stock should stay this low for long. I would just close the app and hold and see where things go if I were you. And also it sounds like you already have about $400-500k liquid net worth so you're already ahead of most people, if you're smart and can get a handle on the emotional aspect which is just as important as the technical analysis side of investing, you can make that money compound quickly. No need to be chasing anything too risky like options when you have that much to lose. If anything sell your current positions after you're in the green and throw it in VOO/VTI/VXUS/VTSAX take your pick at whatever low cost index fund and then just never sell. That's the beauty of index investing, if it goes down it just means you can buy more cheaper, unlike individual stocks where your gambling it all on horse to win it all but with indexes they pretty much always go up in the long term. Even buying at the top of the market you're still guaranteed to come out profitable unless a nuclear war breaks out or something of that magnitude.

wandererarkhamknight

More like 0.7% of QQQ. Lower for VOO, VTI and VT, in that order.

Skizm

VTI and chill

golf_234

You should really start looking at 10, 20 50 100, and 200EMA to determine if you are buying in a bull or bear trend long term and short term, and if you are buying way too high in a bull run (i.e. way above the 10 or 8EMA in an increasing market, which can still be a mistake) sound like you have picked stocks pretty well, but with really bad timing and not paying attention to fundamentals. Also should check PE and PE/G for every stock you buy as well as news and projections, etc. I like using gemini for consensus price targets and trajectories as well. More fundamentals!!! And have the lion's share of your funds in tried and true things like VOO, VT, VTI, and so on.

Remarkable_Cheek4295

VTI or VOO and chill.

RunsaberSR

Just follow the money really. Billionaires, governments etc are shoveling money into tech/infrastructure. Me too. And I'll keep doing it until i see the money leaving or going elsewhere. If you want an entry, sit on your $ and wait for SPY/QQQ to hit the 200day EMA again on the daily chart after some "event". Then start scaling into something "safe", VOO, SCHD, VTI, QQQ/SPY etc to start out (OR SOXL, DRAM...i REALLY like CHPY). And just hold it. And keep adding. Then you wait. Then you're rich. 👍

Carbon-Base

Beans, lentils and legumes are essentially VOO, VXUS and VTI.

zer1223

>Why this matters? Forcing quick inclusion means all passive index and benchmarking strategies will trigger systematic buy to hold to index weights which is something like 4%.  Which passive funds track the nasdaq? The big funds that I'm aware of are VTI, VOO and their non-etf equivalents. All of which don't track the nasdaq 

kb8242

You could also just get VTI instead of small mid and large separately. 2% WM probably won’t effect your portfolio much but then again why wouldn’t you want $WM in your portfolio.

laz62972arulian

I'm weighing between Cash vs. Equity at a very large Private Company I recently received an offer from Stripe (\~$159B valuation) and have the option to take my equity package (\~$80K/year) entirely in cash or as stock. This isn't a traditional 4-year RSU grant with a fixed strike price. Instead, the grant resets to FMV each year. So if the stock is at $65 in Year 1 and $85 in Year 2, my Year 2 grant is priced at $85. I capture year-over-year appreciation, but I have no long-term compounding upside from a single grant. Given this structure, does taking stock over cash still make sense? The way I see it, the stock only beats cash if Stripe continues to meaningfully appreciate each year, and at a $159B valuation, I'm skeptical there's much runway left before a plateau. I don't see them IPO'ing in the near future, but they offer liquidation events twice a year, so I'm not worried about liquidation. What I'm weighing: * Stock upside is capped to annual increments, not long-term compounding * $159B is already a massive valuation for a private company * The conventional wisdom is to take cash and put it in VOO/VTI * But if Stripe does continue to grow, there could be short-term gains Stripe's business varies with transaction volume, so the business's success correlates with market performance.

zangor

SPCX is bout to go really poorly or so good that it will end up a 5.3% holding in VTI.

OGS_7619

most people recommend diversifying both beyond top 500 large-cap in US, to include med-cap and small-cap in US, as well as buying international (emergent markets). So instead of ETF like VOO or SPY that only tracks S&P, you may want to get VTI or FSKAX that tracks total US market, as well as international market, VXUS or FTIHX. Most people go with cap weight of about 60 US to 40 ex-US, but it depends on whether you are in US or elsewhere (then you may tilt towards home country due to exchange rates) and whether you want to increase US allocation because of personal beliefs. International underperformed S&P (and S&P has been lately dominated by top 7 companies) until about a year or so ago, when international has been outperforming S&P. There are periods when small cap or mid-cap outperform large-cap, and most of the time bottom 450 S&P companies outperform top 50, so over time it will all averages out - stay diversified.

simplyty_206

Don’t need both VOO and VTI. Pick one and chill

Flo_Evans

Sell some individual holdings off and buy VTI and chill.

EveryPassage

Yeah but I don't see the VTI index making that change, (there is no incentive for them too).

pants_full_of_pants

You already won. Don't risk pants down in the coming bubble burst. Put 5% trailing stops on everything and as they sell off put it into VT, or VTI+AVGV+(SCHD/SGOV) depending on risk tolerance. Delete the app and only reinstall it once a month to make those trades. I mean full port Tractor Supply calls or whatever.

RecommendationDie

80% VTI 20% SCHD Contribute as much and as often as you can.

Reachin4ThoseGrapes

VOO and SPY move almost identically for what it's worth. Greater exposure on either is a good call in a bull market is you're looking at ETFs rather than individual stocks. Both have returned about 26.6% over a 1yr timespan (obviously that fluctuates year to year depending on market conditions). Personally I think holding VOO, VTI and VUG simultaneously in a taxable account is too much overlap. Consider picking just one. For reference, VUG is just rolling together holdings of various stocks you are already currently holding (presently I believe VUG is 11-12% AAPL, 8-9% MSFT, 5% AMZN; largest holding is NVDA)

blitzzerg

Depends on your retirement fund no? If you are only using funds that track NASDAQ then yes. But I would assume that the majority of people have something more diversified like VTI which tracks the "CRSP US Total Market Index"

Normal_Ant_4612

If you’re investing just make sure you have a plan. Are you saving this for retirement? Consider a Roth or other tax-advantaged account. If not, what’s your timeline? The more time the better. A lot of investing subs on Reddit will just tell you VTI or VOO and chill. Which not a bad recommendation and a time-tested strategy. Personally I keep my ETFs in my retirement account and individual names in a taxable account. But that’s just a personal preference. If you’re adding an individual name to a long term account, you want to know why you believe in the company and why you like it at its current valuation. Timing is somewhat more important with individual stocks over the long term compared to ETFs like SPY, VOO, VTI, etc - in which the most common strategy is just to DCA. If you’re going to build a long term portfolio of individual stocks then diversification is also definitely a good idea. There’s a lot of resources out there, I’ve personally learned a lot from “Stock Market Live Trading Fraternity” on YT. He’s definitely not your normal stock channel and it’s not all long term focused but that is the primary focus of the channel.

Emotional-Power-7242

VOO is DOW, the methodology is antiquated compared to VTI.

Emotional-Power-7242

Sure but there's no shenanigans. VTI will accurarely represent the US market, as is intended.

wandererarkhamknight

Even if SpaceX lose half of their value, it will be a mere noise in VOO and VTI.

BeuTaude588

if the goal is capital preservation with better yield, SGOV or a short-duration treasury fund is the right answer, not equities. VTI solves a different problem where you are willing to see the value drop 30% temporarily. clarify the horizon first. if this money might be needed in 2-3 years, stay in something treasury-like

Emotional-Power-7242

Literally just buy VTI. SPCX is going to come in at like 0.2% of the index.

bklynparklover

I have 5% of my investment account in individual stocks, the rest is in various index funds (mostly VTI). I buy small amounts of stocks that appeal to me for whatever reason (usually because I think they will make money), and I enjoy buying, selling, and monitoring them. The gains are usually good, although I've bought a few I regret. Overall, index funds have been more consistent, and I consider them a much safer bet.

InvestingNerd2020

Individual stocks: - Google (GOOGL) - NVIDIA (NVDA) This is due to their EPS, market dominance, cult fans, and P/E ratio. Basket of stocks in an ETF wrapper: - VTI or SCHB - FTEC or VGT

spidey9113

Put money in SPY, VOO, QQQ, and/or VTI and check back in a decade. I rarely invest in individual stocks. I will day trade options but that takes time to learn and very risky, so I only use a small portion of my money for that. Even as an Econ PhD, options are very tricky.

pain474

just buy VTI, this is not for you

sf_cycle

If you want to invest, just do that. Like someone else said, go with an ETF like VT, VTI, VOO, whatever if you’re not confident picking out stocks. Most people suck at it, and those that don’t are often just lucky. If you mean you’re trying to time the market like OP with stocks, there’s nothing to understand. The market is a casino as they say. But long term it tends to rise.

vinylbond

VTI is good but it’s US only. Throw in VEU (rest of the world) and you’re golden. In time you can start adding short term bonds but it may be too early for that. Don’t sell the dips. Keep invested. Keep investing. Best times to buy is when there is blood on the street. Good luck.

ATPsynthase12

55 and nearing retirement? 50% VTI, 25% VXUS, 25% bonds Young with several decades to grow? Literally just do VTI and VXUS. Even if you don’t add a dime to it, the conpound interest alone will create generational wealth without needing to performance chase.

xLordTommyy

VTI is good to isn’t it

xLordTommyy

Like I said I just started a couple days ago but I heard VTI or VOO for long term in Roth is the way to go so I picked VTI and I’m just gonna keep putting money into it then the individual I’m just investing little bits into stocks

Historical_Low4458

I didn't even need to read the whole thing to figure out it was AI. Comparing VOO to RSP is like comparing SCHD to VTI. They're different instruments for different investing strategies. Nobody is investing in RSP trying to beat SPY.

xLordTommyy

VTI is good to isn’t it?

BeuTaude588

if the tax-advantaged space is maxed, excess goes in a total market ETF on autopilot. VTI for US, VT for global. low expense ratio, dividend reinvested, and you mostly stop thinking about it. the only adjustment is making sure bonds are in the tax-sheltered space, not the taxable brokerage account

Ashley_4661

You're fine Individual tech is only 10% total, and SCHB mirrors VTI anyway Your mega cap exposure is actually super reasonable 👍

PuppiesAndPixels

VTI, VOO, RKLB, NVDA, AMD, NBIS, UMC, ASTS, SIVR. Up 74% in the last 6 months. No options.

brother7

SPAXX is for savers, stocks are for investors. Having said that, I discourage owning individual stocks. The safer way to own stocks is through ETFs, and one of the safer ETFs is the Vanguard Total Stock Market ETF (VTI). But since you already own VOO, that's just as good. If you have earned income, I suggest you have a parent help you open a Roth IRA for Youth at Fidelity. It's the most tax-efficient way to invest for your future retirement.

FrickinLazerBeams

Buy VOO or VTI, then stop looking at the app for a year.

FINomad

Both of those routes sound awful to me. SCHD is for people that don't understand dividends. Here's a video to help you understand what dividends are and aren't (spoiler: they aren't free money): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5j9v9dfinQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5j9v9dfinQ) Nearly all of the stocks in SCHD and VPU are already in VTI (use the link in my comment above to see the overlap), so all you're trying to do is tilt your portfolio to something you don't understand. I would go with VTI + VXUS or simply VT.

Blockchain_Batman

Someone who is tired of working their body to its limits six days a week and wants to learn investing so they never have to do it forever has just described the exact origin story of every serious long term investor who ever built genuine wealth, and the most important thing to understand before buying a single stock is that the stock market is not a faster version of working six days a week, it is the system that makes your money work six days a week while you sleep, eat, rest, and recover, which means the first investment that will change your life is not a stock pick but a consistent monthly contribution to a broad index fund like VTI or VOO that you add to automatically and never touch regardless of what the market does on any given day.

NateRT

A lot depends on your age and where you are in life. If you’re younger, I’d invest more in the market (VTI and such) and just let it ride. Time is your friend. If you may need the money sooner for whatever reason, I’d keep whatever I need soon in HYSA or SGOV. I’m in my 40s and I am 70% in the market. My wife and I both work and we make enough to live off one of our incomes if needed. I have hedges with bitcoin and gold and we own a rental property in addition to our house, so it feels pretty secure. Do some more self evaluation and you’ll probably get a good idea of what balance to have.

Various_Couple_764

With a growth index fund most of the gowth in the first 15years comes from your money deposit into 401k or Roth. There is a limit to hw much ou deposit. and that deposit limit limits the size of the account. Growth index funds don't include BDCs or MLPs businesses. Even VTI which is advertises as the total US stock market doesn't have them. SO You can add PBDC 9% yield, and EMO 9%. And these com\[panies are required to pay ou most of there income as dividends. So the yield is higher than most stock that are not required to pay dividends. If you include these funds in your portfolio the reliable dividend from these companes will continue to come in and you can use the income to add to other funds in your portfolio. In addition debt opbligations such as credit fund, CLO fundsare not stocks but funds investing in these assets also pay very good yield So i also hav ARDC 9%, CLOZ 8%, and JAAA 5.5%. Utility and infrastructure funds are also stable dividend fund and I have UTF 7% yield and UTG 6.4%.

altaz1

The 3-6-9 Rule of Thumb: 3 Months: Ideal if you are single or have a dual-income household with highly secure employment. 6 Months: Recommended if you have dependents, a single-income household, or work in an industry with fluctuating demand. 9-12 Months: Best if you are self-employed, an independent contractor, or have highly specialized, hard-to-replace skills. I would recommend paying off your loans (kind of depends on the interest rate here) then maxing out ur Roth IRA contributions($7,500) a year. As far as stocks go it’s safer and easier to buy ETFs but individual stocks are riskier/higher upside but I feel are not as risky as some say as long as you’re not too concentrated and buying penny stocks or low cap pre revenue stocks. If you have a longer time span I prefer VTI but some prefer QQQ. Personally if I listened to my own rules I’d prob do something similar to 50% VTI 30% VOO 5% SMH 15% individual stocks. Obviously it depends on ur risk and appetite. Before people say VTI and VOO are too much overlap I don’t mind having a little extra weight in tech/large caps.

Jagged_Tide

VTI

kirlandwater

> while putting less money into SPAXX but still most of it, but I’m wondering if the risk is worth it as if let’s say the market crashes right before I’m planning to start my business I wouldn’t have time to let the market recover You’ve got the most pressing issue understood, which is great. Personally I think your 75/25 split is good, maybe expand to VTI over VOO for a touch of broader diversification, without sacrificing much if any growth. Though you’ll want to taper down every year from 25% stocks to 0% and keep it all in SPAXX or something similar for the above reason. For something this “short” term, I would park all of it in SPAXX, but I also don’t want to ever think about the account possibly losing value when I’ll need it just around the corner. However, only 25% you’ve still got a solid amount of growth and taken a lot of the risk off the table. The most important thing you can do is contribute every month as much as you can and you’ll be fine no matter what you choose

Brilliant-Fee-4994

This was very helpful. Probably the most helpful explanation so far. I’m also deciding between VTI vs. SCHG, and I don’t plan on doing both for the exact reason you mentioned above. If you had to choose one of the routes below, which would you personally go with long term? 1) VTI, SCHD, VPU, and VXUS 2) SCHG, SCHD, VPU, VXUS, and AVUV

SirGlass

Multiple people have told you just buy standard index funds like VTI or VOO, add in bonds like BND if you do not want the full risk of 100% equities. What mix is up to you and your risk tolerance. High risk go like 100% QQQ Moderate risk do something like 60% VTI / 40% BND If you want to touch some of it before 59.5 put it in a taxable account . If you need money sell some of your holdings when you need money.

DinkandDrunk

If the market is stressing you out, maybe just buy VTI/VTO/equivalent and chill?

SirGlass

>: I am not liquid and my quality of life is suffering for it You can sell any ETF at any time. Covered call ETF are not "More liquid" than any other ETF. I never insulted you , if you are willing to give up upside for more steady gains the most straightforward way to do this is a equity/bond mix Like 70% VTI / 30% BND or something like that. Re balance quarterly . If you need liquidity just sell some of your holdings

point_of_you

1.25% is too high of a fee I recently spoke with a money manager guy who shat all over my portfolio and proposed a bunch of random shit like this too at a 1.00% fee... with that much money you are probably better off minimizing risk and fees with a Vanguard fund like VOO/VTI/VTSAX and your annual fee becomes 0.04% Only thing I have on that list is CEG and it's been a turd for me but I'm still throwing a little money at it... Also thinking about starting a position on Chipotle CMG soon lol

LuciusQ2020

ChatGPT: I’d tell him: his instinct is good, but his execution is messy. He should stop picking random stocks for the kids and build a simple household system. Priority order Priority What he should do Why 1 Keep a real emergency fund: probably 3–6 months of expenses Mortgage + two car payments + kids = fragile household. Investing before cash buffer is fake discipline. 2 Buy enough term life insurance and probably disability insurance He has kids and a spouse. This matters more than Apple stock. 3 Kill high-interest car debt if rates are high A 7–10% guaranteed debt payoff beats most “maybe” investments. 4 Use the 401(k), even with no match No match is annoying, but tax shelter still matters. The 2026 employee 401(k) limit is $24,500.  5 Max IRA/Roth IRA if eligible The 2026 IRA contribution limit is $7,500 under age 50.  6 For kids, prefer 529 before UTMA if education is the goal A 529 is designed for qualified education expenses; UTMA is legally the kid’s money and can create tax/aid complications.  7 Buy broad index funds, not “pieces of Apple” The kids don’t need stock picking. They need compounding. What I’d change immediately For the kids’ accounts, I would not build $1,000 of VOO and then start buying Apple. That is beginner overconfidence. Just use VOO, VTI, or a low-cost total U.S. / global index fund. Apple is already a huge part of the S&P 500 Index, so buying Apple separately is doubling down without a real thesis. For the IRA, I’d question FHAOX hard. If that is Fidelity Advisor Health Care Fund Class A, it is a sector bet and likely has higher expenses than a plain index fund. A 37-year-old building retirement should probably use something boring like a total-market index fund, S&P 500 Index fund, or target-date index fund unless he understands why he wants a healthcare tilt. For the 401(k), even with no match, he should likely contribute more than he is currently planning. His idea of $157/week gets him around $8,164/year, which is decent, but not close to the limit. If cash flow allows, he should raise it gradually: maybe increase by 1–2 percentage points every few months. For the UTMA, he needs to understand the trap: the money legally belongs to the child, and investment income above certain levels can trigger kiddie-tax rules. For 2026, the Internal Revenue Service says a child’s unearned income above $2,700 may be subject to kiddie tax.  My actual suggested setup Account Suggested investment His 401(k) Lowest-cost S&P 500 Index / total-market index / target-date index option His IRA Same: low-cost broad index, not sector fund as the core Wife’s IRA Same if she has earned income and eligibility Kids’ 529 Age-based index portfolio or VOO/VTI-like option if available Kids’ UTMA Keep it simple: VOO/VTI; don’t stock-pick Random NOK / Netflix Irrelevant unless position size is meaningful; don’t let old COVID trades drive the plan The hard truth He is thinking about this like: “What stocks should I buy?” He should be thinking: “What household balance sheet am I building?” The win is not NOK, Netflix, Apple, or healthcare funds. The win is: 1. no consumer-debt drag, 2. tax-advantaged investing every month, 3. broad low-cost equity exposure, 4. insurance protection, 5. time. That is how a blue-collar family realistically builds wealth. Not by trying to outsmart the market with $25 child-account stock picks. The core principle is still: buy understandable, durable ownership at sensible cost, not random ticker fragments. 

neonam11

Either you have millions and millions invested, or you are doing something very strange, because when I plug into Morningstar for the return of $10,000 invested in VTI and VOO from 1/1/2020 to 5/19/2026, the returns are $24,972.52 for VOO and $24,083.03. So yea, OP, I don’t believe your post.

Cruian

I disagree. VTI is clearly riskier because while it holds more companies, those extra holdings are in a riskier area of the market than the safer area that VOO is in. VTI is essentially VOO + VXF combined into one. VXF is riskier than VOO. VTI should have the weighted average risk of VOO + VXF, right? If we give VOO a risk of let's say 4 (higher number = more risk in this), and VXF a 6, VTI should come in at a 4.x.

SnS2500

\> The point is that it DOES make a difference, despite what everyone says. VOO is up 176.2% the past six years. VTI is up 169.7%, so it does make a difference, but if you are going to focus on the opportunity cost of mega-cap tech growth, this difference is not where to look. XLK is up 283% in that time span. SMH is up 731%. You can't turn back the clock. If you are sure you learned a lesson, then consider it money well spent to now be able to confidently adopt a path you like better going forward.

Shoddy_Ad7511

No. VTI is clearly less risky because of more diversification

Cruian

No. VTI is already the "both": it fully includes VOO inside. By weight, the VOO part of VTI is currently over 80% (maybe even 85%) last I saw. Think of VTI as being VOO + VXF combined into one at market cap weight.

Loquater

If you want a serious answer, it's a fiduciary decision to only allow mutual funds in your 401(k) and it's probably a good one on the plan sponsor's part. What everyone is trying to convey is that comparing VOO and VTI and thinking "if only I was in the other fund, my gains would be X instead of Y!" is a fools errand. There's no way to ever know, so just buy the entire market and live your life as if this doesn't matter. Do you have any questions about 401(k)'s or tax efficiency?

GandhiMSF

From a very brief look, it appears that VTI outperformed VOO from September 2010 to September 2016. That was the first 6 year period I compared the two (just because September 2010 is when VOO was created). Since it only took a very brief look to find such a period, I’d imagine there are several similar periods that could be identified as well.

Cruian

A key point here though is that both VOO and VTI can claim to be riskier: * VOO has less holdings * The extra holdings VTI has are in a riskier area of the market than what VOO holds

Cruian

>lower risk, It may be lower risk in that it has more holdings, not or can be argued that VTI is riskier than VOO because of what those holdings are: smaller caps (which are riskier than large).

OldGoneMild89

Since starting to invest, I split pretty equally between the two. There is a difference, but nothing I'm going to stress over, even though, yeah, it would have been thousands 😐. One of those hindsight things, really. VFIAX (essentially VOO) is up 123.87% VTI is up 112.83%

Cruian

The double drop of the 2000 decade resulted in small beating large (VTI beating VOO).

Zealousideal-Link-24

Six years is not long on the scale of retirement savings and many would argue that the S&P is overvalued. So to take advantage of the current situation you would have to sell right before the correction and purchase right after the correction. No one is capable of timing the market in that way. One day when the S&P tanks because it is less diversified than the total market you will appreciate VTI.

Cruian

We have data that goes back longer than that. Since 2010 has largely been US and large cap and growth favoring, but even favored factors (if we dive into factor investing research) have seen nearly 20 years out of the spotlight at points. VTI would have beat VOO for 2000-2009 by a good amount: https://testfol.io/?s=jKWvh1BwkB6

LifeForm8449

Because it’s called VOO and chill not VTI and chill. Big difference (literally).

LuciusQ2020

I was banned from Bogleheads for saying VOO is better than VTI because at least companies owned by VOO are profitable. The macroeconomics is super important when buying these index funds. My view is that the world will have two dominant economies: US and China, if China sticks to its reforms. The rest of the world has either committed political suicide or been completely ignorant of what is going on. So personally, I stick to the US stocks. VOO or QQQ would be my choice.

Standard-Top-5942

sure, but the comparison between VTI and VOO is very common and often discussed.

User299651

Yes and I loaded up both times. I want even more. Everything is too overvalued. $200 VTI would be a dream! 

United_Weight3580

Choosing VTI over Bitcoin has also cost you about $100,000 over the past 6 years. What's your point?