VTI
Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund ETF Shares
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Question: How do passive index funds like VTI, VOO, SPY, ETC., work?
Where would you put surprise inheritance money
Best Way to Diversify Brokerage vs Roth IRA?
Choosing Between Lump Sum and Weekly DCA VTI
40% of Stocks Experience Catastrophic Losses, and the Best Performers Suffer -69% Drawdowns on Average
19-year-old college student looking to invest for the long term. What would you buy in 2026?
39M tech PM. My RSUs quietly became 55% of net worth and I didn't notice till last week
I invested $6000 for the first time in February and I'm down 22%
VOO is $5 billion away from becoming the first ETF to hit $1 trillion
Sold $HOOD, took profits, and re-entered. Do you believe in Robinhood long term?
60 VTI/ 30 VXUS/10 VMFXX. Should I (33) rebalance to include bonds?
Too much of my portfolio is from RSUs - how would you diversify?
I spent 6 years trying to beat the market. Mostly I just learned how hard that is.
Critique the direction of my 14yo son’s Roth IRA we started this year
How does this mixture look for my 14yo son’s Roth IRA?
New to investing, not sure if im doin it right
AI is disruptive. Individual companies have never been more volatile. What’s the argument to not just buy indexes?
What about VYM? That seems pretty immune to the shenanigans of the tech bros. You can't fake dividends.
Paying 1.86% at Ameriprise and thinking about simplifying. Is that fee still reasonable?
What $10k invested in 8 major indices would be worth today *PART 2*
What $10k invested in 8 major indices in 2011 would be worth today
Bullish thesis for SPCX into the summer
Bullish SPCX Mechanical and Macro Thesis in the next month
Donor Advised Fund (DAF) asset allocation, crypto?
Aggressive Roth IRA at 18 – What Would You Change?
Spacex, OpenAI, and Anthropic IPOs are investment opportunities and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise
used to dread rebalancing day, now it runs overnight
PSA: Don't be a bag holder for SpaceX and AI companies
Investing Opinions for Recent Grad with little student debt
Built my first Roth IRA portfolio in my 20's - here's my 6 ETF allocation and the reasoning behind each pick
place for stock picks that are not used for calls or puts? Higher risk growth picks?
Funds like VT that don't have the typical index problems
Choosing VTI over VOO has cost me about $44,000.00 over the past 6 years
Small business owner here, looking for investing advice from people further ahead than me
27M, with a little over 100K on bank MMA Account, what next?
feels crazy to buy stocks that are over 4x higher than when i first invested, not sure what to do
Is there a downside of using CSPs to acquire ETFs I want to hold long term?
Roth or Brokerage for individual holdings - what is best?
If someone is worth one million dollars, how much $VOO and $VTI should they own? What if they're worth *two* million; how much then?
Is holding energy ETFs or individual stocks worth it?
Edward Jones advisor wants me to invest with him instead of on my own.
You can do it! You can always recover! VTI & chill + buying dips
VTI averaging 20% per year; am I looking at this correctly?
Any recommendations or input on my portfolio structure?
Help me re-balance my portfolio: 31F, single, hoping to buy a home in VHCOL area in near future but also work as little as possible?
Mentions
But this requires VTI as a whole to go down (meaning the market as a whole is down), whereas direct indexing you can still harvest when the market is up.
sad VTI went from 0.02 to 0.03 :(
I'm going to give you some adult advice before letting you into the casino. What you should do is build up an emergency fund of 6 months of expenses not to be touched unless it's truly an emergency. Then invest enough to get your 401k match. Then max out your Roth IRA. Then invest a set amount of money every paycheck into a boring ETF or set of 1-3 ETFs (personally I'm 70% into VTI and 30% into VXUS). Really your 401k and IRA should be the same ETFs or something similar. After that find some play money and have fun in here.
Hey dudes. My coworker told me to come here to discuss $VTI and chill.
How about take half and put it into a VTI or VOO?
u/teh_herper last 100k in my trading account lmao im not a maniac i have 1.7M in VTI
Since when did VTI become a top holding?
You can still use funds. VTI and VOO for example. They track different indexes so it won’t trigger a wash sale but the correlation for gain/loss is like 99%. So if you own VTI and it’s down and you want to tax loss harvest, just flip it to VOO. 31 days later you can move it back to VTI if you like but in the meantime you’ll have essentially the same return in that 31 day period but now have a tax loss on the books.
If you want to not look at your portfolio everyday, buy VOO and VTI. If you do, GOOG MSFT AAPL.
QQQ and VTI didn't really have a choice. QQQ is the top 100 nasdaq listed companies. And VTI is total market. The S&P Global, which creates the S&P 500 index, has discretion over the companies that add. Also they have a rule about companies needing to demonstrate 4 quarters of GAAP profitability before beinh considered for index inclusion.
> 40% allocation to bond ETFs like BND and TLT moved in positive correlation with the stock market in 2022. Depending on your composition, the drawdown in that bond allocation even exceeded the broad stock market downturn. A few things: * No one should have 40% in bonds. Not even retired individuals. * If you look at Total Return, instead of "BND" stock chart it still did better than VTI. [Check this out.](https://totalrealreturns.com/n/VTI,BND) 2022 was a ~20% loss for VTI while a ~13% loss for BND. However if you look at 2008, the story was different. But you're right, bonds expose you to interest rate risk, which in the COVID days was actually significantly worse than anything recent-ish.
So you buy VOO and revisit VTI after 30 days.
But no I don’t not want to mess with the IRS. From what it looks like with VTI and VXUS I really don’t neeeeeeeed to tax harvest. It seems like a big hassle for me since I’m wanting to put in 150 a week for 30 years and not worry about the account or touch it besides maybe rebalancing.
So let’s say VTI is down 2000 and my Vxus is up 5000, I could sell my VTI and put that into VOO for 30 days or whatever the window is and once I file my taxes I can sell my VOO and put that back into VTI so I would be doing 5000-2000 which is 3000 I would have to pay taxes on?
VOO is more diversified across different sectors than QQQ is by a long ways. That said, QQQ is probably fine. So is VTI, or VFINX, or VFIAX, or or or or or. For best results, pick something rules based with greater than 28 companies spread across as many sectors and investment strategies as possible. I don't know why the number 28, but I am pretty sure I heard it thrown around in theory circles before.
\>And I guess if This is right, what’s the day that you need to sell your fund for it to count as a loss. For the loss sale to not be a wash sale you have to sell it more than thirty days after any previous purchase of a substantially identical security\* and not buy a substantially identical security within 30 days of the loss sale. The previous and subsequent purchase applies across all of your accounts. Your broker will catch it in the same account. They have no way to know about what happened in accounts elsewhere. As a practical matter the IRS won't know about wash sales across accounts. They only get info about security sales, not purchases. They would only catch it in a deep audit. It is not advisable to do this. I don't play catch-me-if-you-can with the IRS. The IRS has not clearly defined exactly what substantially identical means. We know from experience that brokers will not flag wash sales of securities with different CUSIPs. You can trade between two S&P500 funds without getting flagged for wash sales. It is probably ok because they have different managers, tracking error, and index sampling that makes them not identical enough. I personally would not do that, because, again, I don't play catch-me-if-you-can with the IRS. Trading between VTI and ITOT or VXUS and IXUS should be fine even though they are both total market funds. They follow different indexes. \*The wash sale rules apply to any type of investment, not just securities.
> if it’s down I would sell vti for an equivalent fund (ITOT) 30 days before tax day and let that sit in there until my taxes are filed and then sell that fund back for VTI Not quite, on several fronts. Really doesn't have anything to do with tax day. And you want to avoid two funds that are "substantially identical" tracking the same index. A good TLH companion to VTI would be VOO, since they are highly-correlated *separate* indexes. On any given day you could sell VTI for a loss, *and immediately buy into VOO*, and you've effectively bought into "the same thing" (close enough) at a lower cost basis while banking a loss. The thing is it's not magic. It's more like shuffling your tax burden around rather than eliminating it (unless you happy to be in a 0% LTCG bracket, in which case you can do some good stuff). By buying back in at a lower cost basis, it means there will be more gains at some point down the road when you sell that new position. But it can be very handy in rebalancing taxable portfolios, if nothing else. It also really helps to have regular influx of new $$ to work out long term. Otherwise if you just buy in with a pile of money and don't add to it, over a long enough time period all of those positions will likely be gains.
I just put a set amount in every month. I have VTI and VXUS. My only risky stocks are Hovr Aduro and Air Joule Technologies. I no longer add more shares of these. If they take off great, if not well I'm not losing alot of money. I learned some extremely harsh lessons from Crypto!! LOL
When people talk about Tax Loss Harvesting, it's a lot more useful to do if you are manually indexing (manually buying stocks that are part of an index). Morgan Stanley basically tried to convince me to use them as an advisor over VT/VTI because I can do direct indexing, which lets me Tax Loss Harvest by selling individual positions, which you wouldn't be able to do if you had VT/VTI, since it's a single fund. Say you are holding the equivalent of VT, but the specific individual stocks (complicated portfolio). The one benefit of this is that if you ever wanted to sell some VT, even if it grew by 100% you can still probably find some stocks in there that fell and sell them off to offset your gains, extracting cash without owing any debt. Now this fundamentally changes the composition of your "index", and you'll have to re-allocate to make up the difference if you truly want to track the index. But the trick is still there. You can't really do that by holding big funds.
just use VTI/VOO and dont bother about any of this nonsense.
I believe wash-sales are when you buy the same or equal again within 30 days. So selling VTI and buying SPY, you should be clear of wash-sale. Also, selling VTI and then buying VTI again 31 days later, and you are also clear of wash-sale.
Not quite. What you are looking for is let’s say you own VTI. That’s a total market fund. Let’s say it drops 10% and you want to tax loss harvest. You would sell VTI and buy a fund like VOO at the same time. While they are highly correlated, they are not tracking the same index so it is generally agreed this would not trigger a wash sale. Your performance would be fairly similar, but you would now have a taxable loss to carry for any future gains.
Same here - I still buy VTI in my fun account along with Nividia.
I rebalanced last week after consolidating all my IRAs and one Roth. FWIW, both times when the transfer of assets happened, there was a dip in the market because of the Iran war and the assets were sold right before the small dip (we are talking like 4% S&P 500) and I just bought in on the dip and prices came back up and are even hire today (could go down tomorrow or next week or next month, no one knows) Ended up rebalancing: 45% Total US stock Market 25% Total International 15% Small Cap Value 15% Bond index fund. (I might lower this to 10% since I have way too much cash on hand and in t-bills in my brokerage). The reason why I rebalanced now though is because I received an inheritance and also I'm heavy MAG 7 in my brokerage account via META, MSFT, APPL plus index funds (VTI and QQQ and VOO (I know I know, they hold the same shit basically) and I can't rebalance without tax implications. Depending on how old you are and when you need the money, if you are a decade away or more from needing the money, then you are spending more mental energy sitting on the sidelines with that 25%. 25% on the sidelines is not going to move the needle IMO so you might as well rebalance now, and not have to worry about all the shit going on in the world. The whole purpose of asset allocation and diversifying is to help you get on with your life.
Good luck; I’ll continue to DCA in VTI until I retire
VTI is my biggest position and I love it
You are right, people that hold QQQ, VTI and others own some SPCX. But at least SPY had some balls and rejected the fast track.
VTI/VXUS and chill but also a side hustle with some nuclear stocks
some VTI, VXUS, maybe nuclear as a small portion as my next gamble
According to Google Finance: >[VTI](https://www.google.com/finance/beta/quote/VTI:NYSEARCA?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjL96CRnIiWAxUmgf0HHczfGc4Q3ecFKAN6BAgcEAQ&window=YTD) >[VXUS](https://www.google.com/finance/beta/quote/VXUS:NASDAQ?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjtnq-WnIiWAxVG_7sIHRDdI8wQ3ecFKAN6BAgcEAQ&window=YTD) How many times do we have to teach you this lesson old man?
Literally on Google type VTI and go to YTD. There should not be any confusion about this as it’s black on white. All my apps show the same number.
*Safest* is HYSA or US Treasuries. But it could depend on the agreed upon definition of "safest" and "investment". To me, those aren't investments, but rather they are places to keep cash safe. For an actual investment, I'd say a low-cost total market or world market index fund. VT & VTI would be examples.
[VTI](https://i.imgur.com/2kpcZMD.jpeg) [VXUS](https://i.imgur.com/ktfZQ6B.jpeg) You were saying?
I don't own VTI but it's 26% YTD, 21% CAGR the past 3Y, 15% CAGR the past 10Y. Meanwhile "time in the market" people have gotten all the gains. Wtf are you talking about lmao
Idk what charts you're looking at, but YTD as of writing: >VTI - 13.80% >VXUS - 14.69% This does not include dividends either which VXUS exceeds VTI.
Holy crap that's a lot. How about equal Parts VTI, SPMO and SCHD. It's a barbell approach between SPMO and SCHD and you've got a nice baseline in VTI. It's all US equities, so you go as they go. It equates to about a beta of 1.0 with an opportunity to advantage of tech's outsized momentum.
VTI > VXUS year to date. Back to business as usual?
Clearly the concern was that SPCX inclusion was going to drag QQQ and broad market index funds like VTI don't play dumb now.
guys should i only be buying VTI in my roth ira
VTI 381 what the hell
It's set up for a rug but I am just fully into VTI who cares anymore
Either 100% VTI and chill or else just YOLO it on 0DTE calls on SpaceX
60% voo 40% VTI and chillllllll
VTI, VOO, UST bonds - 750k, 200k in mag 7, 50k into ONDS RKLB ASTS
SCHG/SCHD is a much superior combo. No "income" ETF that will slow your total return over the years. But at your age you should be considering a VTI/VXUS combo instead.
Park that shit in VOO/VTI and enjoy the gains instead of losing 100k
Checking all my positions, what’s closest to ATH 🤔 Boring ass VTI which makes up 70% of my port
It's in $VTI and $VOO. Not like I can ask vanguard to remove it
If the money wont be for an immediate use for you or your family (when you pass). I think you should go long VTI or VOO and try to get maximum gains over a long term. I don't know the age of the family your leaving it for but say you are leaving it for a 30 year old niece or something along those lines. I think you should be aggressive with the money. Best case would be to make a trust with an aggressive portfolio and when that 30 yr old takes control of the money it more than likely will be a bigger lump of money than if you put it into bonds.
For the specific pairs you named, the differences are smaller than the discussion suggests. VOO versus VTI is large cap versus total market, and since total market is roughly 80% large cap by weight they track closely. FZROX versus VTI is a fee and portability question rather than a strategy one: zero expense ratio, but Fidelity proprietary, so you cannot transfer it in kind to another brokerage. If you ever leave Fidelity in a taxable account, you sell and realise gains. The more useful frame is that diversification is not the number of funds, it's what they hold. VOO plus VTI plus FZROX is one bet held three ways. The actual diversification decision is US versus international, and how much. On whether global still earns its place after a long US run: https://8figures.com/blog/portfolio-allocations/global-diversification-does-it-still-make-sense
You are currently a failure and not meant for this. Take 3% of your Uber earnings and put into VTI. Work that percentage up as you find a way to make more money.
Hello VTI 370 my old friend 🥰
Open an account at Schwab or some other broker. Toss all 15k into some low fee index or total market ETF like VOO, VTI, etc. Tick the option to reinvest dividends, and just let it sit. The S&P 500 has a very good chance of beating any CD or treasury investment option in the 2 years you'll be gone.
I will just buy more VTI.
Why put this completely arbitrary restriction on yourself ? You know you do not need to place an arbitrary box around yourself then decide your investments from this random restriction? Its like someone asking "Hey I only want to eat two things for the rest of my life what two things should I eat?" Well the answer is don't place this weird arbitrary restriction on yourself However the answer is just broad index funds, just do VT or VTI
Put your trades in a spreadsheet. Put QQQ and VTI price from the time you bought as well (or whatever etf you want to track) Same when you sell. Compare.
You can also day trade with shares? That's why the much higher volume is relevant. If you're just looking to passively invest in an index then yes VOO's lower cost is preferable (although you should be investing in a total market like VTI instead of just the S&P 500).
Yeah… you’re right. Going to sell half and throw it into VOO/VTI. Brutal half of the year for me but my god did this make up for it. Uncle Sam will probably fuck me.
I work in substance abuse treatment. I just had a game changing idea. I’m going to open up a inpatient rehab for traders where you can only buy VTI or VOO for 30-60 days. And exposure therapy were your forced to watch people trade 0tde QQQ options. 💰
\> This isn't true at all, as taking the longer view shows that it is horribly unreliable to judge future winners off what is ahead at any given point in time. Your same methodology done 5 years ago would have resulted in the completely opposite conclusion than what you're saying at the start of this comment chain even when using the same start date. I agree but it's hard to convey unless we are jumping into a call for a debate. I am not saying to ignore old data. We are both jumping into graphs from different time frames to demonstrate and I love that. This is the best approach, be data driven. My point in not weighting it as heavily is more along the lines of - if you are looking at data from 30 years ago, they are using an entirely different tech base and market compared to data from 10 and 5 years ago. There is no scenario where I would invest in a stock without reviewing the 30+ year data. But I would also be looking at the modern scenario to see what changes. Right now, in the past 5 years, we can say tech stocks have grown exponential compared to everything else for example. The old historical data isn't going to reflect these opportunities, risks, or realities. You would need to be reviewing current trends to make a decision to take advantage of that growth. You would also need to have the ability to see when the market will snap back in line. That is all recent data that you have to weight now, over historical data. We may or may not be in a AI bubble right now. Our investment decisions have to be weighed heavily by this current data. \> They don't need to go out of business to simply under perform. Correct. But if they drop, because they are currently driving the market, the entire market drops. However, these options are likely to avoid going out of business, which means they will recover. If you are near retirement, I agree this isn't the best option. But, these stocks are likely to stay and recover. \> Try again: Most of the 2010-2021 period had VTI beating VOO. Look at the graph and see the VOO line underneath the VTI one at plenty of points in that time frame. If we change the graph to show that time frame 2010-2021 [https://testfol.io/?s=8MTzu5mZX26](https://testfol.io/?s=8MTzu5mZX26) We have a .13% difference on CAGR. We have under $1000 difference for the money used which is like 1.3% difference right? Again, not saying your wrong. just the performance most of the time is close enough to make no difference. The cumulative return has a bigger differential in favor of VTI 321% vs 315% but again the graph is near touching with the 1000 dollar difference. I upped the amount a few times to see where there is a significant difference and you do start seeing it when you hit 200K IMO with a 10K difference. I started expanding the time frames (Back in time, so ignoring the recent VOO spike and keeping it to 2021). **You are 100% correct. I am wrong. VTI seems to be winning in most time frames if you ignore recent data.** So the question is whether VOO will keep it's out performance up which is reliant on tech which both VOO and VTI have but VTI has less. \> There's plenty of times where market favor is with smaller caps, not in the S&P 500. As the links here show, long term smaller caps have beaten large 100% agree. My only small cap concern when giving investment advice is I think it is more volatile so it is harder for people. There are small cap out performance cycles. For slightly advanced investors, I'd honestly prefer people split between large, medium and caps as opposed to trying to do sector investing. \> Only because of the November 2021 through current period. My graphs show plenty of other times where a long term winner could have been called VTI, not VOO. What makes the leader today the guaranteed winner going forward the next 20 years when the leader in October 2021 was different after nearly 20 years? I agree you cannot guarantee VOO will continue with it's current lead differential. VOO currently has a streak which might very well be temporary. It will crash hard when tech stocks crash with its current holdings.
I said unless you have a data point. Glad you do. I am fine with being proven wrong. My graphs and links were the VOO VS VTI part of the conversation. We will also run into a phase at some point where active managers might beat the passive indexes because they can predict and make profits off of the known changes different passive funds might make to rebalance or add new stocks to their holdings.
Bro that wasn’t shit lmao. I’m talking an actual correction, not chickenshit lol. I want VTI back under $300 again.
Passive investing is the way. You aren’t Warren buffet, just buy VTI
remember when i said if god got me out of this mess ill stick to VTI and never touch single stocks again? i lied im gonna be rich
I did stocks first and made some decent money actually but now I do mostly VTI and SGOV. The return is big even though the percent is smaller because the port has grown substantially. Just dont do penny stocks or technical trading those are stupid. Buy stuff you know about.
>Also while it is good to go as far back as possible for data, you do not always want to weigh that old data to heavily This isn't true at all, as taking the longer view shows that it is horribly unreliable to judge future winners off what is ahead at any given point in time. Your same methodology done 5 years ago would have resulted in the completely opposite conclusion than what you're saying at the start of this comment chain even when using the same start date. >A few stocks are carrying the overall market and they are not at risk of going out of business. They don't need to go out of business to simply under perform. >VOO performs the same as VTI at worst. Not necessarily. While the market cap weighing should keep them, close, it can't be guaranteed that VOO ends up on top over any given future time span as my link above shows. >Yes, it did barely beat it that one year. Try again: Most of the 2010-2021 period had VTI beating VOO. Look at the graph and see the VOO line underneath the VTI one at plenty of points in that time frame. >You don't invest for a 1 year slight out performance. You are looking for performance 20 years down the line. My graph did show a nearly 20 year period where the winner would have been VTI, not VOO. 1 year of "slight out performance" wouldn't have canceled out the lead VOO built in the 90s to be strong enough to last through the S&P 500's under performance of the 2000-2010 decade (https://testfol.io/?s=cd5unIyuFP6), swing into the lead for most of the 2010-2020 decade (https://testfol.io/?s=d78mCGd0XF9 - look not at the end value but rather the line graph and see how often the blue was above the red). >Both our graphs show that VOO wins long term. Only because of the November 2021 through current period. My graphs show plenty of other times where a long term winner could have been called VTI, not VOO. What makes the leader today the guaranteed winner going forward the next 20 years when the leader in October 2021 was different after nearly 20 years? >VTI has more dead weight, there is no way getting around that mathematically. Most stocks everywhere aren't worth investing in, the difficulty is finding tomorrow's winners. There's plenty of times where market favor is with smaller caps, not in the S&P 500. As the links here show, long term smaller caps have beaten large: Factor investing starting points: * https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/factor-investing.asp * https://www.fidelity.com/bin-public/060_www_fidelity_com/documents/fidelity/fidelity-overview-of-factor-investing.pdf (PDF) * https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-black-hole-of-investing/ Notice in the last link the small blend beat large blend by over 2 whole percentage points in CAGR after 80+ years? >VTI only will have higher performance chances during a recession This is false. https://www.callan.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Classic-Periodic-Table.pdf (PDF) or the archived version if that doesn't work: http://web.archive.org/web/20201205183933/https://www.callan.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Classic-Periodic-Table.pdf (PDF) (Archived copies from Archive.org's Wayback Machine) 2003, 2004, 2006, 2009, 2010, 2012, 2013, and 2016 all showed both large and small caps in the US rising with small beating large (that's 8 out of 20). Let's remove any that were negative for at least the S&P 500 and it becomes 8/15, that's now over half the time in rising market situations. >The data also shows SPMO beats both of them which is what I mentioned I use instead so Factor investing is very different than using broad coverage funds and isn't a strategy for everyone. Even favored factors can and have had some periods of under performance in ways not everyone can tolerate (example from earlier today:L https://www.reddit.com/r/portfolios/comments/1vb4fgg/is_this_still_a_good_investment/).
I vote for VOO. Or something a little broader: SCHX/K/B or VTI. Go back to basics an you will weather any crash just fine. Over concentrate on space themes and the market may leave you behind.
I agree that my own link only shows recent out pacing. However, prior to that they are essentially even. Also while it is good to go as far back as possible for data, you do not always want to weigh that old data to heavily. Good information for sure. It is also a question of how much times have changed though. Unless there is serious reform/change even if a recession happens the same structure is in place for the past 30 years. A few stocks are carrying the overall market and they are not at risk of going out of business. VOO performs the same as VTI at worst. Your link is also good but I don't think it disproves what I said. You are calling out that "even as recently as 2021 VTI beat VOO " Yes, it did barely beat it that one year. But the total number still comes out to VOO winning because the following years VOO recovered and out performed. You don't invest for a 1 year slight out performance. You are looking for performance 20 years down the line. Both our graphs show that VOO wins long term. VTI has more dead weight, there is no way getting around that mathematically. VTI only will have higher performance chances during a recession. We have more bull markets than we do bear markets. The math doesn't support it there either. The data also shows SPMO beats both of them which is what I mentioned I use instead so... Feel free to keep using VTI if you want. You are entitled to your own opinions and beliefs. I'm going to stick with never recommending VTI if there are options that are just as safe with better chances to outperform. I'd also talk about QQQ but I am expecting a harder market crash soon. We will see if AI can pull a big win.
VOO is very young (2010). Using the investor tier mutual fund versions can provide data back to the early 90s. https://testfol.io/?s=8MTzu5mZX26 Uses the creation of VTSMX in 1992 and shows even as recently as 2021 VTI beating VOO and that the same was true for a large part of the 2010 decade (despite having been below VOO at basically the start of that decade). With a 1992 start date, all of the VOO over performance only started in late 2021.
There have been cycles for sure. Cycles where small cap beats large cap. Cycles where VTI beats Voo. Also cycles where international outperforms the USA. But the most recent couple of decades, I believe Voo has out performed. They are close enough to be almost irrelevant though. Same issue as VGT, market weight balancing makes the holdings very similar. Unless you have a specific point or data point. I'll admit I don't have anything on hand right now but I was going off research I did a while ago and the graph matches up. [https://stockanalysis.com/etf/compare/voo-vs-vti/?r=MAX](https://stockanalysis.com/etf/compare/voo-vs-vti/?r=MAX)
The average investor just throws everything in VTI/VOO/etc... they are doing just fine. It's only the degenerate gamblers who are down 10%.
>Also wondering when I should get out of VGT because I wanted to be a little aggressive while I'm still young. Sector bets are a form of uncompensated risk, which I would not consider aggressive. An uncompensated risk is one that doesn't bring higher expected long term returns. It should be avoided whenever possible. Compensated vs uncompensated risk: * https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/uncompensated-risk/ >An uncompensated risk is a risk that you can diversify against. * https://www.northerntrust.com/middle-east/insights-research/2024/wealth-management/compensated-portfolio-risk or if that doesn't work, the archive link: https://web.archive.org/web/20260107205255/https://www.northerntrust.com/middle-east/insights-research/2024/wealth-management/compensated-portfolio-risk >But not all risks are compensated with an expected return premium. * https://www.pwlcapital.com/is-investing-risky-yes-and-no/ (Bold mine) >Uncompensated risk is very different; it is the risk specific to an individual company, **sector,** or country. Even long term, the winners can come from far more boring areas. Tech revolutions: * https://www.pwlcapital.com/investing-technological-revolutions/ * https://www.morningstar.com/stocks/you-might-think-industry-growth-drives-stock-returns-heres-why-youd-be-wrong >50% VOO, 30% VGT, 15% VXUS, 5% NASA Why so low on ex-US? Why skip the US extended market? >Should I double dip with possibly 70% VOO 30% VXUS in the Roth, or switch to something like VTI in the Roth? I'm a total market style person, so I'd be using VTI or equivalents over VOO everywhere. Personally, 30% ex-US is my "floor" so I'd be compensating for the taxable being underweight ex-Us by having extra in the IRA (unless I was able to correct that easily).
>VTI has no point. Similar to bonds, they will be safe during a recession, but at all other times, VOO would out perform. Every 1 year we spend in a recession, we have 5-10 growth years. It doesn't math out. And if you are not retiring, VOO will recover better within a few years. VTI has spent plenty of times above VOO, even long term and in good times. Looking towards factor investing research, small caps have tended to beat large in the long run.
Something to lead with every post on here really - The average top performing investors are dead people. You want to set it up where you set it and forget it. That means making things simple. Not too many stocks. Avoid overlap. Diversify a bit. Roth is good. Fill that first every time. After that, it depends on your plan. Do you want to retire early? Going FIRE changes all the picks. While young, I am personally of the opinion of zero bonds. You don't need those until you are 1-2 years out from retirement, if at all. **VTI** has no point. Similar to bonds, they will be safe during a recession, but at all other times, **VOO** would out perform. Every 1 year we spend in a recession, we have 5-10 growth years. It doesn't math out. And if you are not retiring, **VOO** will recover better within a few years. **Traditional brokerage** should be safe growth ETF's unless you are planning on **FIRE**. You get taxed on dividends and cannot sell/rotate without tax penalties if you wanted to attempt that. So whatever you stick in there, generally its something you never need to sell or collect dividends on until you are 60+. So it is best to do growth ETF's. FIRE changes things a bit in the brokerage since you stop working before all the traditional retirement programs come in to support you and you would not have access to your Roth. **Roth** you *can* get a bit wild on since its fine to sell as long as you leave the money in the Roth. Not saying you should but it is safer to play around in. So you can be more risky there. I would still recommend focusing on Growth/value ETF's. Later there is no penalty to sell it all and shift into other options. I personally prefer **SPMO** to **VOO**. Grows a bit faster, if there is a drop, it drops a bit more but the graphs I looked at say **SPMO** does outperform/recovers fine. In either case, **keep in mind there is a lot of overlap** between them and **VGT** so those are not exactly diversified choices. **VOO** and **VGT** overlap by about **71% by weight** and share 36% of their holdings by number of stocks. Investing in **VOO** and **VGT** is almost investing in the same thing. (**VTI** is in the same boat btw, lots of fund overlap. No point selecting it to have a different option from **VOO**). **I would currently count VOO, VGT, and VTI, as all the same thing. Pick one of them**. **VOO** and **VTI** will rebalance if tech stocks crash. Slightly smaller profit margin, a bit more safety. **VGT** can't rebalance because its tech only. **VGT** will have a better upside if tech does not crash but has a higher risk. I personally don't see NASA going up without a major tech breakthrough. We need asteroid mining before we get mass space adoption. All the money is in AI right now and we only got real space investment to one up people during the cold war. No other countries are trying to do anything cool in space so right now its all about - do we think launching more satellites will be enough to drag the stock price up. For me the Roth is- 70% SPMO 8%- individual stocks to play with. 20% VXUS - increased it from 10% as international stuff is happening which will require growth or they fall apart. 2% bit coin - I think its a scam but the scam has lasted a long time semi successfully so far so I am getting the ETF versions with a stop loss instead of directly investing. Brokerage- 90% SPMO 10% random stuff from when I was new to investing that I haven't sold because they seem to be doing okay. It's very boring. I don't see a reason to change it until i'm 10 years out from retirement.
It really depends on what accounts these are in. If you are in an investment account where you aren't going to have to realize the capital gains, I would slowly sell it until its under 20% of your total investment and throw it into an VXUS, VTI or some broad index. If this is a cash account (where you will have to pay taxes) on any gains. I'd probably leave it unless you want to spend money. There is a lot of risk to holding one asset, but Apple has been safe for a long time.
In my Roth IRA, I do 70% VTI / 10% VXUS / 20% SCHG ….. and my wife does 70% VOO / 10% VXUS / 20% VGT in hers. Over 15 years, that’s done great for us. Pretty much the same setup in our brokerage accounts and Roth 401k’s
For your Roth just go with VTI to get some mid and small cap exposure and call it a day.
did you see my other comment? what happens when VTI takes a 15%-20% dip when I am in retirement and then I am forced to sell my holdings at a loss to pay living expenses? I am well aware that broad market funds appreciate in value more than dividend funds, but I am asking what you think should happen when those broad market funds happen to be in a downturn and I still have living costs to pay.
Is this a taxable account? Do not use Fidelity's zero fee funds in a taxable account. If you ever leave Fidelity they cannot be transferred. Just do VTI/VXUS split or 100% VT. If it's a retirement account like an IRA, FZROX and FZILX are all you need. FZILX replaces the Intl fund you listed, and everything between those that you listed are not worth it. It reduces your diversification for a higher expense ratio.
For the benefit of folks reading this who might not be familiar with Fidelity funds, this basically works out within a minor rounding error of 80% VTI and 20% VXUS. Or in other words a totally reasonable, non-controversial portfolio for an aggressive 38 year old investor.
It's a trad 401k and a Roth IRA yes. Just 100% VTI equivalents the whole time.
So you know about VTI but actively choose to ignore them. Sounds pretty dumb to me
It would be pretty dumb of you to shrug off VTI/VOO and then question if you should invest in SCHD, dividend funds, or individual stocks. Pretty damn dumb.
That's why you don't pick stocks, just get the broadest non-overlapping ETFs. Why QQQ, when you could VOO? Why VOO, when you could VTI? Why VTI, when you could VT?
Go run some backtests of dividend oriented portfolios. They come out worse than the broad market indexes ETFs like VTI.
I started unloading my long held VTI this week, wish I’d done it faster now
NOK, hydrogen energies, VTI. Port was down 17% in the last few weeks. The writing was on the wall that this is now a confirmed downtrend so I decided to get out and re-enter when things look more appealing
The best strategy is to invest in VOO, VTI, or VT and hold for a long period of time. The strategy is so good, that it is guaranteed to make you money and outperforms 85% of financial advisors who spend their life studying the market.