IP

maria_la_guerta

> If you don't have revenue, you can't pay back the credit. Not at all true. Patents, IP, Real Estate, investments, etc. None of these are considered revenue streams yet factor in heavily to a company's valuation. It is not a "pile of crap" to state that there's more to a business valuation than revenue, it's a simple fact.

Next_Instruction_528

SpaceX's dominance isn't one thing — it's a compounding stack of advantages that has widened into a structural moat most of the aerospace industry still hasn't reckoned with honestly. --- **Vertical integration at a scale no one else attempted** The traditional aerospace model outsources everything. Lockheed, Boeing, ULA — they're essentially systems integrators sitting atop enormous supplier webs. SpaceX manufactures roughly 70-80% of its hardware in-house: engines, avionics, composite structures, the grid fins, the software stack. This means iteration cycles that would take a traditional contractor 18 months happen in weeks. When they identify a failure mode, they own the fix. No supplier negotiation, no contractual change orders, no IP walls between subsystems. The Merlin engine was designed and built internally from near-scratch. So was Raptor — an engine running full-flow staged combustion, a thermodynamic cycle so demanding that the Soviets abandoned it and no Western engine had ever achieved it before Raptor flew. --- **Reusability as a genuine paradigm shift, not a PR talking point** Before Falcon 9, the industry consensus — backed by actual engineers at NASA and ULA — was that reusable rockets were theoretically possible but economically dubious because refurbishment costs would eat the savings. SpaceX proved that wrong by actually doing it, iterating until the refurbishment cost dropped to near-trivial. Falcon 9 boosters have now flown 20+ times routinely. The economics are transformative: an expendable Falcon 9 launch was already cheaper than a Delta IV Medium. A reused booster on a reused fairing compresses that further. ULA's Vulcan, Ariane 6, and ISRO's current generation are still partially or fully expendable. SpaceX is essentially operating on a different cost curve entirely. --- **Raptor and Starship represent a genuine generational leap** Raptor is the highest chamber-pressure engine ever flown — running above 300 bar, full-flow staged combustion, methane-fueled. The performance ceiling is substantially higher than Merlin, Vulcan's BE-4, or RS-25. Methalox was also a deliberate long-game bet: methane is producible on Mars via Sabatier reaction from CO₂ and subsurface ice, which makes Starship the first rocket architecture designed with interplanetary self-sufficiency as a first-order constraint rather than an afterthought. Starship itself, if it reaches operational status, makes everything else in development look incremental. 100+ metric tons to LEO fully reusable — compared to Falcon Heavy's ~64t expendable — changes the economics of what you can deploy to orbit. Large space stations, point-to-point Earth transport, genuine Mars missions without orbital assembly: these stop being multi-decade fantasies and become near-term engineering problems. --- **Cadence as competitive moat** In 2023, SpaceX conducted more orbital launches than every other nation and company on Earth combined. Launch cadence matters because every flight is a data point. Their telemetry and failure analysis pipeline is running at a rate that compresses learning timelines by an order of magnitude versus any competitor. When Starship had its first integrated flight test failures, SpaceX iterated faster between attempts than NASA takes to convene review boards. The "move fast" ethos is real but it's backed by the vertical integration — they can actually implement the changes they identify. **Institutional culture as structural advantage** This is harder to quantify but real. SpaceX recruits from the tail of the engineering distribution and runs on a culture of extreme ownership and rapid iteration that traditional aerospace contractors — constrained by cost-plus government contracts that actively disincentivize efficiency — literally cannot replicate without structural reform. Cost-plus contracting rewards complexity and delays; fixed-price contracts reward speed and cost control. SpaceX built its culture around the latter before it was mandatory. The talent density compounds the technical advantages.

FortheredditLOLz

Adobe took every opportunity to f\*ck their core customer base at every single turn, sentence, email and conversation. Which has now eroded their literal growth. I can’t wait for them to fail, so someone buys up their IP and open sources it.

Case17

If the costs go up 10x, i still think we’d pay for it. But we might control it more tightly. I do agree that at some point it doesn’t make sense, but right now the cost is minuscule. Yesterday I did a comprehensive IP survey in my space, and created a strategy and next steps. I put in 1h active time on my end. It helps significantly that i know the right questions to ask, so it’s not just blind AI use. I need to follow up with maybe 8h of patent reading and analysis. Without AI, this would have been a full time project taking a few weeks, and my brain getting overwhelmed by trying to keep track of details. AI is an enabling capability, and to me, the cost/benefit ratio is currently minuscule when compared to traditional methods. I asked Claude to estimate the total cost in tokens converted to $. About $25. I’d easily pay $250 for that; i wouldn’t think, i”d just go do. And if the AI task failed for some reason, i wouldn’t even be bothered by that cost. . I’d even pay $2500 for that, but might think carefully before executing. You have to consider not just the time saved, but the speed; competition lives and dies on speed. I wouldn’t pay $25,000. That’s too expensive. But i will add that all of that analysis was done in Claude Max mode with me repeatedly asking for more detail. Save money by lowering Max to High, etc… That’s the best I can personally say for myself and my company. I can certainly see how the cost will be a non-starter for consumers; Sonnet or other low usage models will be fine for them.

mattawara

Fine, I’ll bite… their product families: Creative cloud - everyone’s already focused on this. Also threatened by good ol fiver. Document cloud - native OS capabilities are eating this all day, and Docusign is doing the last mile. Experience Cloud - giant fucking turd of a platform. Only in use because of shady deals. Ai makes the integration easier which makes the al la carte approach more feasible for large corps. Still some good IP, but the structure is falling apart at the seams.

Rock_or_Rol

Circular financing, oligopoly semiconductor pricing, poorly reported semi depreciation, insane inflation levels amidst increasing buildout financing, increasing semi and open source LLM competition after the US spent decades dropping manufacturing for service and IP Totally sustainable

maria_la_guerta

> Only income should factor into the valuation. The valuation is estimated future income. The What? No. Patents. IP. Real estate. Investments. etc. So many stores of value that can contribute to a valuation. Which is exactly why this 'cost makes no sense.

Nearby_Persimmon_649

No other company has their IP and their track record. Not even the US guvmint developed a reusable rocket that can land like it does. I understand if you hate Elon Musk but the company has a moat.

atcgriffin

Sorry if my math was wrong. I was saying just the physical property and IP would be worth over 14B. And how long till twitter and xai contribute to share value in your eyes?

No-eat-eat

Yes! Conversations were casual at first, then they started asking for pictures. They traced my IP!! Found my socials. And spammed my DMs

DarthJDP

the rug pull doesnt happen until the NASDAQ includes spaceX. It might keep climbing up. Look at how initial coin offerings go, it doesnt always get pulled immediately after it opens. Sometimes they keep the charade going for a while. Also, Musk has the full might of the US government and military behind him. He can simply remove competition from open AI and anthropic. Anthropic already took down mythos and fable so the government can look through it and Musk can distill those models. So it might be a viable business eventually by taking out the competitors and stealing their IP.

jakderrida

\>>NASA had reusable rockets 70 years ago. To be clear, 3rd parties used by NASA had IP on them. One thing the Elon-worshipping cult I've had to remind them of is that even the Apollo mission to the moon involved over 93% of expenditures going to 3rd parties. Somehow, nobody knows that.

lifeisaonewaytrain

I think their vision is more where they own all the IP and corporations and 99% of people receive a small amount maybe $500/mo a month for spending money. They might do a food bank for free food, and then people could receive less per month and then spend the $500/mo spending money on existing corporations and brands. This way the established corporations that are on top now will always stay on top. This might be part of the reason why the billionaires have gotten into politics.

NotAnotherRebate

I bought 100 share of the IP. Whatever single stock I buy tanks soon after. I'm doing my part. I'm sure it will drop like a flaming rocket right before I'm allowed to sell those shares.

Short_Log_42069

**$AMPG — shorts piled 33% of the float into a stock breaking a 5-YEAR base and I'm holding 100 ITM calls like a fistful of lottery tickets 🚀** **Position or ban: 100x Oct 17 '26 $5C, avg $3.36, \~$39K notional. Yes that's real. No I will not be taking questions from anyone who bought SOFI at $25.** **The company (yes there's an actual company):** AmpliTech. 23-year-old radio shop from Long Island that spent two decades quietly making amplifiers so cold they run at 4 Kelvin for literal quantum computers, then said "screw it" and built the **only US-made O-RAN certified 64T64R massive MIMO 5G radio.** That word salad means: every carrier on earth that doesn't want Huawei or a Samsung monopoly has exactly one American option, and it's this $200M company with 47 employees. Revenue $9.5M → $25.2M (+165%), Q1 +48.6%, 48% margins, $20M backlog, $18M cash, ZERO debt, guiding $50M+. Shipping to a Tier-1 North American carrier that's named in actual SEC filings. I checked. I read them. My wife left anyway. **The setup:** June 8 PR drops → +27% → smashes through the old 52wk high → smashes through the 2024 quantum-pump high → now in blue sky for the first time since 2021. $5 to $9.30 in SIX sessions on 10x average volume. Stock has a bell on my phone like a cow in the Alps. **Now the degen part 🌶️**: my broker says short interest is** 7.29M shares. The float is 22M. That's 33% OF THE FLOAT SHORT**. And it TRIPLED on the way UP. These geniuses are shorting a breakout in a stock where one 8-K — one purchase order from the carrier they're ALREADY shipping to — turns the exit into a clown car door. 4-5 days to cover. We've seen this movie. I have the popcorn and October expiry. **The part the rocket emojis won't tell you (read it, regard):** shorts aren't suicidal, they're playing dilution. \~9M rights convert at $5/$6 — that's 36% more shares, first wave lands **July 18.** Management dilutes like it's a religious obligation — they top-ticked their own chart with an offering in 2021 TO THE DAY. CFO and COO both sold in the $5s last month. And this whole leg ran on a PR that contained zero — ZERO — new orders. This is a knife fight between squeeze fuel and a paper printer. I'm just here with leverage and a calendar. **The calendar:** rights expiry 7/18 (company pockets \~$22M, overhang clears). 5G IP deal closing due this quarter or next. Q2 earnings mid-Aug where the COO already promised revenue "definitely much higher" than Q1. My Octobers outlive ALL of it. That's the whole trade — I paid \~$0.15 of time premium. It's stock with 2.4x leverage for people whose risk manager is a Magic 8 Ball. **Exit plan (yes I have one, I'm degenerate not stupid):** ⅓ off near $9, ⅓ near $10, runners through earnings. Daily close under $5 = thesis dead, I take the L and post it. Closed today \~$8.49. TL;DR: real revenue, only-American-vendor moat, third of the float short, 5-year breakout, 5 months of dated catalysts — vs guaranteed July dilution from management that has never once seen a candle they wouldn't sell into. 🚀🚀 *Not financial advice. Positions shown. My exit liquidity could be YOU.*

Dry-Interaction-1246

Yes, exactly, plus NASA IP that went into it.

the_mammynun

You have to look at the long term, global opportunity. No cannabis brand of the future is going to set up massive grows and ship all over the world.  Two of the best examples in the industry are Wyld and Grøn, and even Wana pre-Canopy. These brands are present in every legal market of the US, and Canada because they focus solely on brand partnerships with growers and invest all their capex into the CPG aspect. In no time, these brands will be present in Europe, and in every legal market worldwide. And not just whatever they can produce themselves.. their brand power will enable them to sign contracts with the biggest and best local growers. Why? Because their products sell.  I'm not saying Auxly can't do it, but I'm saying right now a lot of their capex is tied up in inefficient grow ops. That's because Canada doesn't currently import and that's their core market. I get it. But looking ahead they'll have to think bigger. They've got a great start with the vape tech since that IP is a bit harder to replicate. But this is going to be a long road and a very competitive one.

Lilmjk

Also: Der CRA, NIS-2 und DORA sind eine Steilvorlage für QNX und übrigens auch SecuSmart. Btw 275 mio Autos sind QNX basiert. Die neuen Generationen auf QNX 8.0. Das heißt mehr Einnahmen. Durch die ISO-Zertifizierungen bzw. TÜV Rheinland bzw. BSI-Komform und NATO restricted, haben die schon einen Markt. NVIDIA setzt im igx3 auf QNX Dann haben wir da: NXP, Intel, AMD, Qualcomm, Texas Instruments, ARM, Apex.ai um auch auf ROS2 nutzbar zu sein, Renesans QNX ist secured by design. Die Marktposition ist ziemlich gut. ABI research hat QNX als overall leader im Robotic bereich ernannt.  Man kann sich auch gerne den CIBC-fireside Chat aus Mai anschauen. Oder die Baird Konferenz aus Juni. Tim Foote erwähnt mehrmals, dass BB und QNX nun wieder eine "growth company" ist. Naja, aber das ist nur ein Ausschnitt des Gesamtbildes. BMW "neue Klasse" oder den Leapmotor D19 noch nicht erwähnt. Oder den TKMS Deal oder den mit The IP Company oder den J&J AI heartbeatpump deal usw., bzw. ALLOY KORE in zusammenarbeit mit Vector, welches gerade von Mercedes eingearbeitet wird. Nur meine 2 cent zu dem ganzen. Oder wir schauen halt auf das BlackBerry von 2013. Kann ja jeder machen wie er möchte.

writeonfinance

Shareholders got wiped out, RKLB got the assets/IP.

Pulga_Atomica

Yeah but does Tesla have AI IP that can create kiddie porn on demand?

Frosty_Promise8050

They are knee deep in another Clippy situation with AI. I have friends who work there, and they are a sinking ship. Lost at sea. They have too much IP to disappear entirely, but they are going to really, really try.

writeonfinance

RKLB got the IP and assets, shareholders were wiped out: [https://candlewoodpartners.com/mynaric-ag-announcement/](https://candlewoodpartners.com/mynaric-ag-announcement/)

oh_man_ohjeez

Coming in late, but you're hitting the nail on the head. I've financed a portfolio of bloom fuel cells before. O&M is a nightmare. Their fuel cells require near constant maintenance to maintain anything close to their contracted output and efficiency factors. Bloom is the only company able to perform maintenance on their systems because of their IP. In order to be financeable, you need an extra (expensive) insurance product or some sort of IP lockbox agreement that gives you their IP in the event of a contractual uncured default (their systems stop producing the way that they should). Given that only Bloom can perform maintenance, I'm high skeptical that they can scale effectively to be able to meet this GW-level buildout demand. With that said, it's a timing thing. Theres probably another 1-3 years of runway before we see any sort of material adverse effect on their financials, which means a lot of room to grow. Really hard to short the right now.

Ordinary-Conflict404

sigh.. again NOKIA never made their own chip; Marvell has been Nokia's primary custom ASIC partner for the ReefShark chipset family used in 5G baseband/RAN compute. Broadcom supplies merchant silicon (StrataXGS/Trident-class switch-routing chips and some DSP/PHY components) used in Nokia's IP/optical networking and parts of its mobile transport and switching infrastructure. 1. Operators have not yet monetizing 5G - do you think they'll spend on the costly NVIDIA chips as they are asking for demonstrration on the value revenure generation. even if they spend then NOkia is a beneficiary:Nokia's AirScale portfolio is being adapted to run on Nvidia's ARC/Grace platforms as an *option alongside* its custom silicon, not instead of it. Nokia gets to sell into hyperscaler-adjacent telco deployments (AI factories, edge AI, private 5G/6G for enterprise) where Nvidia's brand pulls budget toward Nokia hardware. 2. **The photonics/optical angle is** ***more*** **exposed to upside, not downside.** If AI-RAN drives more compute to the network edge and more east-west/AI-cluster traffic through telco infrastructure, that's incremental demand for the optical interconnect layer — directly benefiting Nokia's Infinera/photonics business (San Jose fab, co-packaged optics positioning). Nvidia's Spectrum-X and AI networking pushes are *creating* the optical bandwidth demand that Nokia's photonics arm is positioned to capture.

HailNana

No, it's not. They just forced foreign companies to parnter up with locals so that it doesn't make the same mistakes like most other countries where the big conglomorates made all the profit and took it back home. Yes, IP theft happened, but not enough to justify that it's solely based on that.

_AntiSaint_

Have you seen then the margins generated by semiconductor, memory, and storage companies? It’s insane. Like 70%+. Profitability is the last thing I’m concerned about there. As far as actual AI goes… it’s not a cash flow play. It’s an IP play with cash burn utilized to increase market share which will (eventually) be used to bludgeon other models into acquisition and consolidation. I doubt we have more than 2-3 core AI models in 2 years time. The companies with a balance sheet and access to capital will be acquiring lesser models or models in deep financial problems. I’m not a fortune teller, but my personal thesis is that GOOGL, AMZN, and one of MSFT and/or META will be entirely running the AI show in 2-3 years time.

shtoops

OpenAI isn’t a random VC-backed startup. It’s arguably Microsoft’s most important strategic partner. “Anthropic buys OpenAI’s IP for pennies” scenario is pure regardium. Microsoft will be the one to pick up the pieces.

thisisintheway

I think the answer is - being first to market isn’t always great. You front load a ton of R&D for other companies to build upon, as well as learn from your failures. The reason OpenAI would cease to exist isn’t because there can only be one AI, it’s because OpenAI became insolvent and Anthropic or Musk buys the IP for pennies

Overflow0X

I'm not going for lower, or same. I liked the job, the coworkers, the stuff were were working on was exciting (a lot of new IP). The layoff happened because of people on a whole other continent, completely divorced from reality.

cat-from-the-future

Sell man, AI is going to completely disrupt apps, SaaS business already lost trillions in valuation on the public markets…someone is offering you 25x sales on something that will easily become obsolete with AI is a gift. Just make sure you’re not selling any IP unique to those apps that could be valuable elsewhere. Is there any kind of data you collected, patent, or anything that someone might otherwise be offering you this much for your apps.

GuyFieriFrostedTips

Why didn’t Batman just sue Edward Nygma for IP theft? Gotham’s civil docket was probably full up…

TheKingInTheNorth

The deal was done before they owned the IP, they certainly didn’t have the control you’re implying.

FacetNo6

They own the IP now, so they definitely had a say in the development and narrative. No company would give a carte blanche to a game studio that's building a game with their IP.

beardedsandflea

I've mentioned this several times in the past couple years on various value trading subreddits and posts and I'm always met with crickets. People are going to buy GTA6. It's going to break sales records. Again. And Take Two does a ton of online content and support for their IP. My cost average is at about $190 and my target price is $300 by the end of 2027; and that seems perfectly reasonable to me.

InevitableAd2436

There’s premium to be unlocked if they’re ever acquired as well. They’re the biggest US game studio with cultural IP that hasn’t been acquired yet.

iknewaguytwice

I’d like to know what he specifically can be attributed to delivering that is more impressive than penicillin, the microcontroller, the World Wide Web, the Jet engine, the mobile phone, the first lunar landing, TCP/IP, the printer, smoke detector, lithium ion battery, sewing machine, power steering, or sliced bread.

ArtOfTheCardsNJ

Great day to be a Nintendo investor. IMO $40-50 billion enterprise value is crazy low for them, I bought all the way down to $10.50. Theme parks, movies, trading cards, apparel...component costs being high is such a shortsighted outlook. Another generation is growing up with their IP.

ShadowLiberal

I mean I'm pretty sure that people tried something like that before to get around IP laws for digital piracy. If I remember right either the military or a law enforcement agency boarded their vessel and shut it down. Nobody took their claim of being an independent nation seriously.

OrbitronFactory

Agreed, their IPs appear to be timeless. The Mario Galaxy movie just pushed past 1 billion at the box office which is a testament to this; I feel like this step into the film industry really does mark a broadening into the full spectrum of the entertainment sector and will further bolster their IP recognition for future generations 

InfiniteLicks

What makes you say that? None of the AI companies were held accountable for copyright infringement or IP theft before.

imoutohunter

I’m don’t agree it’s overdone. I think the fact that Google is bypassing Broadcom IP is underplayed. Google is working directly with TSMC and buying discrete IP blocks from MediaTek to reduce their costs. The days of Broadcom earning 60% margins on their Google business is over.

EngRookie

eyyy someone else sees how criminally undervalued NTDOY is😁! if the next 2 movies are a moderate success NTDOY will finally get reevaulated based on an entertainment and IP driven basis and not solely a cyclical hardware basis

Wavertron

Buy China robot Yet to train as useful worker in your widget company Realise it's not very advanced, train it as office cleaner. Robot eavesdrops on all your business conversations and IP, reports to CCP Go bankrupt Train robot to go find a new job so you won't be homeless soon Robot leaves and never returns 3 months later, you see the same robot on TV working for a new Chinese owned widget company.

gianmk

teach me what? i dont have asts or spacex. You could be right that asts is not worth 40b, or it could be worth 100 trillions based off their tech IP, literally could not give a shit. What factual is that they are worth nearly 40b as of this moment and i can tell you it matter a whole lot. Getting a loan with 40b valuation is a whole lot easier than 40m valuation.

Primary_Olive_5444

IBM has cpu stuff/IP as well. I think we can agree, data Center CPU is dominated by x86 and ARM. Broadcom isn’t really there. Whilst accelerated compute, Nvidia gpu and Broadcom TPU. In networking, is Nvidia mellanox and Broadcom tomahawk. And IBM holds tonnes of filed IP, whether you can hit the jackpot in that stack of IP depends on the ability of your engineers, foresight and some luck.

beerion

They just have to outlast everyone else. I don't think they need to reach AGI. They just need to offer enough of a marginally better product that customers choose them. More customers mean more revenue, which means more capital for compute, which means they can expand the performance gap between them and rest of the pack. If this doesn't play out, and there's no winner in the next couple of years, this will be just like the airline industry - capital intensive, commodity product. The fact that anyone with some capital can spin up a model, and the fact that it doesn't seem like there's much IP differentiation - every model seems to be very similar in terms of both training style and data access - leads me to think it'll be the latter (i.e., airlines). So that's the question. Will OpenAI vs Anthropic vs Gemini = Camry vs Accord vs Civic?

itsprodiggi

Netflix should have staying power but it needs growth. They would have had so much damn good IP if they got Warner bros

Present_Comb7630

Just as another point to hammer my personal opinion home: the entirety of Nintendo is valued at 60 billion USD; hardware, IP, personal game store, hardcore fan base, full microtransaction profits. I'm not saying Rockstar doesn't have great IP, microtransactions/subscriptions, retention etc. but they are a studio first, not an entire ecosystem.

ButtExterminator

All china can do is steal others’ IP

SlavaUkrayne

Deepseek guaranteed is stolen IP like everything else tech centric China has made. Even then, if you believe chinas $6mil number, I have a bridge to sell you That being said, I think AI stocks are overbought, there will be a dot-com-bubble sized pullback at some point. Doesn’t change the fact in 10 years AI will run nearly everything we do

Maakus

In simple terms - they design the thing that makes all of the ai processors talk to each other. They also can integrate this directly on the processor, eliminating the need for a lot of copper. They were underpriced/flat for a few months after they bought a AI centric optical company last year. Conservatively on cash flow I see their price at 300 dollars in a year .Mid - 350 dollars a year from now, High - 375. That all said cash flow will change real quick if Google/Meta/AMD require their unique IP and make orders within the year then it'll be a trillion dollar company. That probably won't happen but Broadcom might not meet optical interconnect needs.

21Rollie

Can’t wait for the big companies to fail. Idk what the value proposition even is? Okay you spent $10B training a new model, you want to charge now to make $100B in profit on it. But here comes DeepSeek or some other open source provider, they’ll distill on your model and get 99% of the way there. You complain about it not being fair but all LLMs are built on monumental levels of IP theft, AI generated shit isn’t copyrightable, and good luck enforcing it if it were. Big companies are just throwing money at them because they’re wined and dined by those snake oil salesmen all the time, but eventually it’ll hit the bottom line. If these cheap MFs struggle to say, pay everybody $50/month phone reimbursement, there’s no way they’re gonna swallow $500+/month for every user. And if they expect us to be tweaking and optimizing to get the most efficient token usage ever, where exactly is the time saving they promised?

Argothaught

Hmmm… at first I thought, “wait, what!?” but I think this is actually not a "regarded" question at all. It’s a good observation, especially for a new investor. It seems arbitrary, right? Like folks bidding up cryptocurrency on hopium with nothing anchoring it except demand. With stocks, you essentially own part of a company, regardless of the number of shares. Price discovery has to be based on something. Usually this happens through peoples perspective and sentiment about the company’s future outlook. There’s inherent value there, whether through free cash flow or basic assets (real estate, IP, cash reserves, etc.), etc. With that understanding, the price gets shaped by daily trading and by how investors position themselves, including through options. Options don’t set the price, but they do reflect expectations and can amplify short‑term moves. All of this is based on how people view the company’s current state in relation to its future value. Folks can only ignore fundamentals for so long, usually. But there’s also a host of metrics by which a company’s performance is measured, and these vary across industries. With the abundance of information these days, you’re usually too late or too unaware to get an edge. Things don’t usually move arbitrarily as much as it may seem at first. You just might be missing the details, whether that’s a major contract being canceled or signed, a miss on guidance, or some industry‑specific metric that matters a lot, etc.

harrison_wintergreen

I wouldn't touch Chinese stocks intentially. They might be possible to avoid entirely in some international/global ETFs, but I wouldn't seek them out. It's a totalitarian Communist dictatorship with zero respect for property rights including IP, international accounting standards or basic human rights. IDK why you're restricting yourself to tech stocks, there are good companies all over the world. CGXU is up ~20% this year with a good mix across sectors, for one example.

Iwubinvesting

Yes. It's publicly available information. You just assumed they would want to spin it off, It was a subsidiary to sell 26% of 4 of their IP to Tecent which can be bought later on. Tencent valued the subsidiary at 5billion dollars valuation for that essentially IP backed loan. That's not including rest of Ubisoft IPs. IP is worth what you pay for. Lord of the Rings has fallen off since Lord of The Rings initial theatrical release and the show isn't highly profitable. Total LOTR games sold are like 30m copies all combined. Total AC game sales are 230m all combines. So no, LOTR isn't worth more than all Ubisoft IPs combined. AC is still relevant and people generally pay more to play video games than to watch something. Also, The video game industry is actually much bigger than the movie industry now.

SuspiciousFatCat

Have you got any proof they still own any of the IP's ? last I heard they moved those to a separate corporation assuming so they can spin it off free of the liabilities since its the only valuable part of the business. Also not sure if they are worth anywhere near what you think they are, didn't the Lord of the rings right sell for like 400million? surely Lord of the rings is worth more than all of Ubisoft's IP's put together no?

Few-Chemist-3463

China and stealing IP… they would never

JustinPooDough

I hold shares of Google, and wouldn't bet against them, but... When they say all their data center capacity is allocated, I believe that's mostly AI companies that are allocating that space. IF the current AI narrative fades, I believe we could see a very strong swing downward for GOOGL. That being said, IMO, GOOGL is the best hedge on AI right now. Even if AI rerates lower and we realize that LLM's have hit a scaling wall and agents won't replace white collar (which I believe to be the case - at least from an economic standpoint), GOOGL is a good bet because they **will** survive and likely sweep up the IP of the companies that go under. Same with MSFT. I'm actually fairly confident that either one of or both of OpenAI and Anthropic will be gone in the next 5 years at the very most, and GOOGL, AMZN, and MSFT will likely be the vultures picking at their carcases \*\*cough\*\* IP. **Edit:** I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that this is exactly why Berkshire Hathaway just took such a position in GOOGL. Whether AI wins or loses, GOOGL is going to benefit.

NsRhea

As a gamer I hope they go bankrupt. They dug their grave with literal golden IPs. As an investor I also hope they go bankrupt. They dug their grave and the IP would be handled better by anyone not banned ubisoft or Activision blizzard.

GamermanRPGKing

Ubisoft is all but done for, the Black Flag remake is one of the "smash glass if fire" options they have. It's not even because of middling games that I say they're done for, but how they have been cancelling projects like the Prince of Persia remake. They don't have a real direction and most of their IP is exhausted. Tencent involvement is obviously a red flag but, Ubisoft has been doing the same things for too long and refusing to change anything up.

TehBuckets

As far as I am aware they have no big game in the pipeline for a good while (fact check me on this). Furthermore as you mentioned they are burning cash, consolodating the company and have already made a deal with tencent where they moved a couple of IP’s out to a new company owned by both Ubisoft and Tencent. Horrible management and everything else means that likely for years there is not gonna be a big comeback either. Decent games aren’t gonna cut it they need to release something big and rob a bank to come back from this imo.

AdventurousFinish681

Having amazing IP but not knowing how to leverage for value is like having a 10 inch dick and taking a vow of celibacy

roflator

Yes the pokemon IP is higtly fluctuant and not a reliable IP at all. You are right

Adjective-Noun-nnnn

I've been thinking of it like the self driving car hype. Remember the self driving car hype, guys? Every truck and cab driver in the country was supposed to be unemployed by last year according to the hype artist con men. Did that come true? Are there Waymos operating in every city on Earth? Are they doing so with no human supervision? Huh gee I guess the edge cases were numerous, difficult, and unacceptable. Now look at ChatBots and LLMs. A lot of progress made quickly. Hype clowns telling us it will lead to mass unemployment in every profession. Take a deep breath. They're neat but they're not *revolutionary* and they take a lot of resources--electricity, water, infrastructure, stolen IP, reddit slop, and of course silicon--to run. Is it worth it? We won't know until companies are actually paying--paying full price for what it actually costs so the AI companies can profit and pay back their VC investors.

Ghostman-on-3rd

Nintendo is a bargain. Memory is notorious for going through boom bust cycles. It is definitely a hedge against chips, as when (not if) prices come down, Nintendo's margins will improve. This will likely happen after they raise prices, which they announced for later this year. NO DEBT. CASH COW. Incredible IP. Stock price in the basement below 200 week moving averages. Our parents played Nintendo, we played nintendo, our kids play nintendo, their kids will play nintendo. This one you could buy, disappear on island and come back in 20 years be happy. Whats not to love. Dont over think it.

eetsumkaus

Google is a leader as is Quantinuum. The thing is, even with all these technological developments in the past few years, the field is still in such a state that no one group can take full benefit of their research as a product. So the ultimate benefactor of one company's development may be someone else. Most everyone in the field, including the VC-funded startups, is doing something closer to basic research than industrial R&D simply because most people just won't believe you if you keep too many details tucked away under IP walls. Microsoft's recent majorana claims come to mind. People immediately found their claim of a majorana qubit non-credible due to how many details they kept close to the vest.

Iwubinvesting

Ubisoft unironically. Watch the hate you get everytime you talk about it. The sentiment is highly negative to beyond any levels. The companys IP is worth 4 to 5 billion while the company is worth 700m.

Mustathmir

Nokia's three AI pillars: 1. Optical networks (progress visible already now) 2. IP networks (will start growing from Q2) 3. AI-RAN + related software (the long-term bet)

GoldGlove2720

The OpenAI IP is this year. Trying to do the same thing that happened to SPCE

Mustathmir

AI & Cloud orders grew 67% in Q1 compared to the 2025 quarterly average. And this growth without the order growth in IP networks the CEO has signalled will start this quarter thanks to hyperscaler design wins in Q1. AI & Cloud orders are now growing massively but they will be visible in sales only 12-18 months later in Optical Networks and soomewhat sooner in IP Networks. Thus the transformation is happenoing, but not yet visible in sales: AI & Cloud orders are the early indicator to follow. Additionally, by end of 2026 Nokia will open its InP chip fab which will increase that capacity by about 20x. As the idea is not to sell those components externally as a merchant, that points to massive expected internal demand as part of Nokia's optical products. And finally, we have the AI-RAN story only beginning, this was why NVIDIA invested $1B in Nokia last year.

Sir_Fragles

$VRRM CEO reset is actually bullish af. Interim dude is transformation + legal, aka exactly who you want after Avis: contracts, customers, cost cuts, IP, execution. Board basically put the fixer in the chair. This thing already prints cash, has gov contracts cooking, MOSAIC savings coming, and now they got a guy whose whole job is to tighten the machine. Second growth phase loading imo.

HeftyCompetition9218

What looks concerning is that while LLMs have certainly captured many of our imaginations in terms of engagement with ChatGPT initially, or making cool images in a few minutes, coding using Claude, or recklessly messing with OpenClaw etc, I think a lot of this was created using GANs. That’s really neat but it’s not AGI. It’s cool in how useful it can be but a company is better off training its own on its own product and not handing over any previous IP to any of the hyperscalers that frankly, are highly vulnerable I think, to being integrated into the US government should that fancy take hold.

eetsumkaus

I'm in the space. Do NOT put money on QC stocks unless you have an appetite for rolling the dice. The technology isn't settled yet and just about everyone is making a play for IP creation. Quantinuum is one of the leaders but doesn't mean a whole lot at this stage.

ClarkFable

And no regulator on earth will let that happen.  They also don’t own the right IP to be competitive at the upper end

statisticalmean

I don’t really buy this whole narrative, which is going to get me downvoted here. Obviously we are all just talking out of our asses when we predict what people are thinking, or what the price of any given stock is going to do. But, a few points I’d make / arguments I think are worth addressing * The whole “they’re changing the rules just for Elon” is only half true in my opinion. Yes, they are changing the rules. But traditionally IPOs happened when companies are much smaller. SpaceX is already a megacap before going public. That straight up was not a thing in the past. The rules they’re “breaking” weren’t designed for this scenario. Companies stay private longer, and get capital from private sources much more today than they used to. Also, I’m sure they’ll do the same thing for Anthropic and OpenAI when their IPOs come. So the “just for Elon” idea doesn’t hold water. They’re changing the rules because it makes zero sense to apply them to these already-massive companies that weren’t anticipated when the rules were made. * The average person’s 401k being “exit liquidity” argument just doesn’t make sense. This isn’t a meme coin rug pull where the owner sells 100% of his coins in one fell swoop on the market. Only a small fraction of the company is being sold publicly. If the stock is a dud that hurts nobody more than it hurts Elon… he owns the rest of the shares… he doesn’t want them to be worthless… obviously. There is also no “exit” to speak of, so how anything could be described as “exit liquidity” is just plain stupid. Elon is not “exiting” SpaceX. He certainly plans to keep running the company for years and years to come. Possibly (probably) decades to come. * The narrative that “SpaceX is super unprofitable and will never make money to justify its valuation” is not as obvious as people seem to think. Clearly, someone thinks SpaceX will succeed. These are majorly big financial institutions investing major amounts of capital into this company. These people are not morons who throw tens of billions around Willy-nilly at whatever company. Starlink as a business segment is extremely profitable, and makes more than enough money to keep the entire company afloat in the short term. The “unprofitably” comes from the newly-acquired AI business segment which is just getting started. I’d say that Starlink has a pretty big moat considering you need to build an entire SpaceX before you could even try to launch a competitor. * SpaceX’s thesis that the bottleneck in the AI race is physical, not digital (paraphrasing their S1 filing), is probably true. And nobody is better positioned to address that aspect than SpaceX. Call Elon whatever you want, disagree with his politics, whatever. He’s a crazy good engineer. And he’s a crazy good manager of crazy good engineers that work for him. I mean they literally build fucking space rockets and land them and launch them again. There’s no company on earth that’s better suiting to build gigawatt-scale data centers. That’s why the only two in existence were built by SpaceX. The first was built in ~4 months by retrofitting a warehouse. The second was built from the ground up in ~3 months. For reference, data centers 10% of the size usually take like 2 years to build. Oh, and SpaceX does it SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than everyone else. * SpaceX just leased some of their compute to Anthropic for 1.25 BILLION PER MONTH. For 3 years. And that’s only going to increase. And that increase will not be linear. Especially since (as noted above) nobody else is capable (smart enough) to build compute at the scale and cost SpaceX/xAI has proven to. * Grok’s lagging behind other frontier models isn’t necessarily going to stay that way. It might, I’ll admit. Even in that scenario, being the physical atoms that the truly good frontier models and tools (Anthropic, Cursor) run on is already a win. With the immense compute capabilities at the disposal of SpaceX, Grok has a genuine path at becoming competitive. * SpaceX synergies with Elon’s other businesses is a very valuable intangible. The engineering human capital at Tesla, the data at Tesla, the IP at Tesla, the information (valuable training data) of the extremely popular social media website X, the internal access to data from Starlink, etc. These are not small advantages. * The combination of SpaceX going public and being the only compute-unconstrained player in the AI game will create a serious tailwind for Grok to improve and compete with frontier models. The stock-based-compensation that can be thrown at high-level engineers can bring in serious talent. And, serious talent that physically cannot do their work without the necessary compute infrastructure will have literally nowhere else to go but SpaceX to continue pushing the envelope.

MKD8595

I work with CAT equipment. 80% of their business is hoarding IP. They don’t actually build shit, their subsidiaries and contractors do. They won’t send a drawing because THAT’S what their value is built on. People here would know that if they had a fuckin clue lol. But sure, automated moon robots n shit.

Boring_Painting2957

fuk your puts fuk your rug pull we gapping up SPCE SPACE IP ELON

King_Chron

it was cool once upon a time, more like a utility company now with subscription model based and their maps/ multiple dispo menu was once cutting edge... not so much anymore. better for smaller players to pay their fees for direct exposure but their IP has lost a lot of meaningful value this day in age imo

natecoin23

Bought puts from the casino, IP bust here we come!

Thereian

The SMMT results got, for lack of a better word, torn apart by a speaker at ASCO. Lots of pre-readout blinding. Only 7% of patients were women. Trial exclusions remove a substantial amount (half ish?) of US lung cancer population. People aged over 65 or 70 saw no benefit (can’t remember which cutoff), which is a larger proportion of US patients as well. Prediction that OS curve separation will converge in a US population based on the above. Not to mention China data integrity and IP risks.

PolarizingKabal

Those of us old enough to remember the dot com bubble. Warren Buffett was mocked at the time for not investing in it. Because he said he didn't understand it. Turned out a lot of their value came from IP and non-tangable assets. Was basically what they valued their IPs at. Not what the market was actually willing to spend on it. AI reminds me a lot of this.

earthbender06

exactly, this price doesnt hold up till IPÒ

Low-Win-6691

There's no fanboyism here. how do you explain Apple's chips outperforming the competition for the past 10 years? there's a lot more to it than just buying some IP

Adii2311

Yeah well, first off "should i buy the dip monday" this can seriously backfire also. Dont make assumptions about the market, because it can humble you fast. Now your second point, theres a growing consensus among hyperscalers to make their own custom silicon and cut into nvdas super high premiums. They are planning to use synopsys IP and agentengineer tools to speedrun this. Whether they get there is another question but their definitely is the intention. This is on the 5 year horizon. Even if you were right about the thesis, are you saying itll dip monday and just keep going up for 5Y?

weHaveThoughts

All of the space stocks and companies will do well. $RKLB, $SPCE, $FLY, $ASTS. Companies don’t want to put all their eggs in one basket and hand over proprietary IP to Musk, they will go with alternate providers for their rocket trips.

mortymotron

This is an underestimated issue in the GenAI space. Producers of memes and small-audience content aren’t going to care about whether there are potential copyright issues with the AI image or video generation models they use. And to be fair, that’s probably rational for all but the most egregiously abusive people. But the the highly professionalized producers of mass market content do care, and will care. Adobe is aware of and highly sensitive to that. It’s no coincidence that Adobe markets Firefly based in part on the fact that Firefly is trained on content that Adobe either owns (including by recent acquisition) or has licensed for the purpose. The lawsuits are still working their way through the courts, and there will be more to come. But it appears the prevailing view in the worlds of copyright of professionalized media is that courts will likely take a dim view, legally, of producing generative AI works using models that were trained on unlicensed content. Big picture, that genie silly going back in the bottle. But in the world of mass market media—to whom Adobe primarily caters—they aren’t going to take their chances on getting sued for literally every penny they earn off GenAI content that might later turn out to be treated as infringing. That’s why Adobe has gone out of its way to scoop up the IP that’s being used to train its models. Whether that and other things are enough to take a bullish view on ADBE is another matter. Despite its recent beatdown by the market, I’m still ambivalent. ADBE has a lot of issues right now, mostly self-inflicted (Geschke must be rolling in his grave). But on the GenAI front, it’s naive to assume that Adobe isn’t keenly aware of and working to position itself as best in can with respect to what’s going on in that space.

lordvulguuszildrohar

China is super interesting. They are basically open source humanity. Granted with some huge humanitarian shittiness. But putting that giant elephant aside for the moment. I can see them beating the breaks out of everyone else as they don’t even bother really with IP rights. Which helps for data.

lordvulguuszildrohar

I don’t think it will quickly though. Distilling maybe along with home grown. But that’s still at current ai. Frontier models are awesome but also are expensive and will need profits at some point to continue growth. But the game is removing data producing humans. Which diminishes quality data. So it’ll cycle down for a while. And now people are very much protecting their IP so it’s not infinite data. It’s getting closer to model collapse every time they do layoffs. They jumped the gun and should have stayed silent while they refined. Now it’s a free for all that is producing diminishing returns re quality. Error is still very high and needs likes of human intervention to have useful product. Even Gen Ai for images has a “sameness” quality that is concerning.

Rock_or_Rol

Not to your point, but I agree. I consider it more of a hedge than a bet. The US shifted its economy from a manufacturing one to a service/IP one. If LLMs can do half of what they promised, we are cooked if we aren’t on the bleeding edge. China’s supply chain dominance is at least a decade ahead of our own if we aggressively tried to reclaim that ground. All we’d have left is oil, the military and finance. The last two are waning alongside our heavily subsidized ag. We’d be the new USSR if we lose that tech advantage. If LLMs suck and remain forever plateaud, we still have our driving sectors for a bit longer

Weird-King6449

The point most AI proponents seem not to understand is that "bubble" doensn't mean "enthusiasm over the new thing", it means "overexcitement over the new thing" or in other terms, putting the cart before the horses. The dotcom bubble happened because people thought the internet would become the end-all-be-all of commerce and to some degree it did, but twenty years later and in very different ways than they thought it would, so those early companies and infrastructure into which rivers of money were poured aren't largely the same ones that eventually came on stage and reaped the benefits. Why? Precisely because the latecomers got into it as the actual shape of the internet was becoming visible and were able to either create tailored products, or scoop up for pennies on the dollar the assets and IP of floundering companies who overburdened themselves too early and weren't able to survive long enough for their products to be profitable and widely distributable. I believe this is what is happening right now: companies are throwing literal trillions of dollars into projects that have no clear shape in the hope they'll be the forerunners of the future, but the truth is that AI is still a formless entity the eventual role of which in our lives is still really unfathomable. So far it's composed mostly of annoying, mostly useless copilots on phones and computers, chatbots that can't give a clear answer to most questions, and spam ads in all flavors. Hardly doubt that Claude and similar are going to have such a seismic impact on the industry at large in the short term. Long term, I can give the benefit of the doubt. And as a corollary to that I'd say, why would I take the risk of paying hundreds of dollars now for stock of a company that will take at least a decade to actually grow into its breeches? Or even worse, why would I take a position in something that is very liable to crash to zero next week because some other startup comes up with a trendier AI? I know that a lot of people are going to make a lot of money buying, holding and selling the hype, but as someone whose main source of income is my job, my first investment is my time, which I sell for money, which I manage in a way so that thirty years down the line I won't have to sell my house to pay for my groceries and this means that my risk tolerance has a certain limit. Tech used to be an investment into the future and innovation, right now it feels one step above betting on horses. I leave it to the professionals.

Swimming_Finance_452

This is a wild take but honestly kinda galaxy brain. If Nintendo ever leans into “personalized encrypted IP” plus cloud or quantum compute, they basically turn every console into a glorified key and own the whole stack. Also if AI bootlegs really do get stuck in uncanny valley forever, blue chip IP becomes even more valuable since it is the only stuff that still feels “real” to consumers.

ParabolicMotion

Reddit themselves are deleting posts and comments. I hope these regards know that they're gonna end up with their IP addresses getting sent to law enforcement.

ParabolicMotion

I seriously hope you're using a VPN or proxy because this post is illegal af and Reddit discloses IP addresses when there's a warrant.

Teripid

Exactly. They aren't selling what is effectively IP. They're raking a percentage or two average on what they sell to consumers.

PinkySwearNotABot

can't they just can by IP? why would they not sell the hardware, but instead sell the software access?

Temporary-Basil-3030

IP trolls.

I_Fart_In_Trams

I’m not saying we will sniff 2021 valuations, but this stock has plenty of headroom. The company will actually have value if it proceeds with the planned launch in Q4. Also, it’s not like they have zero IP.

KimJongSoros

Other than “Space is Cool/Space is the Future”, idk how they ever plan to justify their valuation. A very small and unique client base (mostly countries and really just a handful of private businesses) even need to put anything in space. Mars/Lunar exploration isn’t inherently profitable. Even Starlink now has competition and isn’t exactly ground breaking on its own, nor is it that widely adopted. Sure they can license out their patents/IP to third parties since their R&D is literally ground breaking…but that doesn’t equate to a multi trillion dollar valuation. What’s the vision here? Other than hype?

augustus331

No, you're not saying much of anything at all by that. Design universities teach Adobe. Decades worth of design content were made on Adobe-native file formats not transferable outside the ecosystem. Creative professionals have built their entire **career** on Adobe products and have the muscle memory to go along with it. You cannot be hired as a creative professional without deep knowledge of Adobe products. And AI-risk? Adobe is the **only one** that offers AI capacity with IP-indemnified content which is the **only** thing that matters to enterprises which is the vast majority of it customer base because if you use copyrighted data for your AI you'll get sued and ***expensive*** campaigns will have to be withdrawn and remade completely.

augustus331

You're following retail-investing narratives and it just isn't true. Consumers hate them, enterprises use them and the whole **global** digital design industry revolves around proficiency in Adobe products. Design universities teach Adobe. Decades worth of design content were made on Adobe-native file formats not transferable outside the ecosystem. They are the **only ones** that offer AI capacity with IP-indemnified content which is the **only** thing that matters to enterprises which is the vast majority of it customer base. Let Canva have the amateur designers and consumers. Adobe owns the segment in the design industry where there's willingness to pay.