IP

PkmnTraderAsh

Pray tell, where did I say data was stored in China? [All lies I guess. .](https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/16/24132315/tiktok-bytedance-project-texas-china-silo) [Oracle the company selling data surveillance to China?](https://theintercept.com/2021/02/18/oracle-china-police-surveillance/) >In practice, the data was less walled off than TikTok led users and politicians to believe, *Fortune* reports. Evan Turner, who worked at TikTok as a data scientist between April and September of 2022, described a “stealth chain of command” in which he was reassigned — on paper — to a manager in Seattle but continued reporting to executives in China. Every two weeks or so, Turner would email spreadsheets with data on hundreds of thousands of US users to ByteDance workers in Beijing, he told *Fortune*. The spreadsheets included users’ names, email addresses, IP addresses, and geographic and demographic information and was used to determine how to develop TikTok’s algorithm to encourage users to be more active on the app, he said. >But it’s become even more rich now that the Intercept reports that Oracle actually [has a lucrative business helping repressive law enforcement in China](https://theintercept.com/2021/02/18/oracle-china-police-surveillance/) do surveillance work. The long story is absolutely full of totally shocking — but somehow not surprising — details. It starts off by noting that Oracle hosted a presentation on its own website, literally describing how it helped police in Liaoning province better sort through all of the surveillance data they collected

Ok_Marzipan_3326

Traditional car manufacturers are catching up. Long term it makes sense to invest in them. Tesla is overpriced imo. Chinese brands are the challenge, but their penetration outside of China is not guaranteed. Because of infrastructure in emerging markets and retaliatory (IP theft, state backing) protectionism in advanced.

kurzalevski

Infinite Reality Acquires The Drone Racing League For $250M $NBST btw how does this work out : The $250 million acquisition bolsters iR's capabilities and IP, and boosts its valuation to $3.5 billion.

manicdee33

> Elon originally joined Tesla as an investor and the chairman of the board 7 months after it was founded Define "founded". That's the issue here. Tarpenning and Eberhard had filed the papers of incorporation, but they had not put enough money into it to do anything. Musk, Wright and Straubel joined after that and brought with them the money and expertise needed to realise the dreams that Tarpenning and Eberhard had of commercialising AC Propulsion's "TZero". Their first product was the Roadster, and by the time the Model S came out there was nothing of AC Propulsion's IP left in the design. So at what point was Telsa "founded": when it was an incorporated entity with no money and no business plan, when it actually developed a product and started selling it, or at some point in between after they had money and formed a business plan and started to work on building the company?

Rebelcr7

Yeah that makes sense, they don’t even get paid hourly so it’s wishful to think they own IP or trademark

Sapriste

Is Twitter even making money? I'm sure the IP and brand aren't worth that much. Note we are having this conversation on Reddit ;).... Because I won't use Twitter. Twitter content has to be rolled into other platforms like Hannibal Lecter with the mouth guard on.

nodesign89

Great point, his threat to take teslas IP to another business venture should have been grounds for termination

MrF_lawblog

Lol this post would make more sense if you said they need to become a battery, IP, and software company and license it out to all other EV makers.... But even then, that would be a drastic and most likely failed strategy.

NotBillNyeScienceGuy

I get it. But my point is that TSLA isn’t a traditional car company. I’m not trying to say Tesla is going to be exploding tomorrow. I’m trying to say that 1) value is made up and 2) there’s untapped public opinion that Tesla has that’s overlooked by people focused on the cars. Tesla could start selling their electric motors and batteries, assembly lines, etc at any point to other car manufacturers. I mention SpaceX because it’s private and highly valuable and many resources are shared between Tesla and SpaceX. (Think engineers and IP)

No_Communication8613

I bought shares pre market without triple verifying information. The patent # list on X is 2018215090 That patent is for Manna Nutritional Group. AgriGrowth acquired Manna in 2022 so that tracks https://www.globenewswire.com/en/news-release/2022/05/18/2446081/0/en/AgriFORCE-Growing-Systems-Completes-Acquisition-of-Food-Production-Processing-IP-from-Manna-Nutritional-Group-MNG.html I was not able to verify the legal status of this new patent. The previous patent approval was on the AgriGrowth website. The current patent is not listed there. It's possible I actually bought in before the news hit. Please let me know if a third source verifies patent has been approved. All I found was the info below. HIGH FIBER, HIGH PROTEIN, LOW CARBOHYDRATE FLOUR, SWEETENED LIQUID, SWEETENERS, CEREALS, AND METHODS FOR PRODUCTION THEREOF ApplicationPublication/Patent Number: US20230031973A1 Publication Date: 2023-02-02 Application Number: US17/963,690 Filing Date: 2022-10-11 Inventor： Naccarato, David Clayton Gordon, Stuart Gray Assignee: Manna Nutritional Group LLC IPC: A23L11/70 Abstract: A technique for processing ancient, heritage and modern wheat, grains, seeds, beans, legumes, tuber and root vegetables create baking flours suitable for human consumption. The initial ingredient is incubated to initiate germination and activate internal enzymes and nutrient production for useful enzymes, proteins and nutrients. Germination is terminated and the product wet-milled to fracture or shear the outer hull, exposing the inner grain. The product is mixed with water at varying temperatures during which amylase is added. The mixture is incubated to facilitate saccharification of starches into sugars by the amylase enzymes. The mixture is pasteurized to denature the amylases and the mash pressed and/or strained to separate the liquid and solids. The solid phase is dried and milled into higher fiber, high protein, low carbohydrate flour. The liquid is carbohydrate-rich with substantial fiber, protein and other nutrients dissolved in the solution.

Front_Expression_892

Mission Master SP is also an interesting toy that is being investigated by Japan right now. But the biggest problem with traditional democracy bringing platforms is not only costs and complexity of production, it's the IP that can be copied if the platforms are captured. We need drones that not only cheap to produce, but also drones with open design to make capturing them valueless. Something like cheap Chinese drones with a grenade strapped with blue tape.

DickRiculous

China always makes a fuss. It’s part of the autocrat playbook. You sling mud at everyone else while gaining incremental advantages while everyone is distracted by your finger pointing. Russia, China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and North Korea all practice this doctrine, as did a certain recent criminal president. They’re leaning into the fact that they have autocratic and complete control within their own borders, but the US operates on capitalism and freedom, and so they are weaponizing the USA’s own strengths to use against the US in a form of economic warfare. Just look at all of the IP theft by China. Many of the hacker and online troll-farm/mass propaganda groups perpetrating ransomware attacks and cyber attacks on critical infrastructure have ties to these state actors. In their countries they can lock down the internet. The US won’t do that. It puts the US at a disadvantage in an era where everyone has a smartphone in their pocket and groups can push one narrative or news article or force a global catastrophe to distract the public, then everyone’s phones ding with something polarizing and inflammatory. We can’t stay present or focus on the problems that are most prescient in our own back yards because we’re too busy worrying about what’s going on halfway around the world, and half of the populace is eating up some form of informational garbage or another. Everyone thinks they’re the smartest person in the room, but I’ll quote a certain comedian here: “Think about how dumb the average person you know is. Then, recognize that half of them are dumber than that.” Now I’m off on a tangent. I love Reddit but giving everyone and their mom a soapbox, a megaphone, and a sense of righteous indignation is not good for society.

Todsrache

While it isn't 'usual,' it isn't unusual either. Especially since pre-split TSLA that's only 6-7k shares. and at IP price of $16, that's not an unreasonable amount of money to have invested if you really believe in the electric car technology.

Yeshavesome420

If the courts weren't losing credibility at an alarming rate, I would support nearly every law being reviewed by a higher court. The truth is tech has been allowed to operate relatively unregulated for decades now because of the complexities of the industry. Our lawmakers don't have the technical knowledge (and sometimes desire) to write cohesive laws to protect citizens from predatory business practices. The only reason this law is moving forward is the relationship with a foreign entity. In reality, we should go after Facebook, Twitter, and everyone else with just as much enthusiasm. These companies have little to no fear that they will be punished for disinformation, unethical business practices, data theft, selling data to hostile foreign entities etc, etc. I hope this law and the subsequent Supreme Court case sets a precedence that affects the industry as a whole and potentially what we allow when it comes to foreign companies operating in the United States. Regarding the press, we should be returning to policies in line with the fairness doctrine to ensure accurate reporting and the elimination of disinformation. I don't necessarily believe that foreign businesses should be banned outright. However, bytedance has been clear that they won't allow their algorithms and IP to be inspected or monitored, and unfortunately, that has consequences. The question is, should the rights of a foreign business be defended in matters of national security? I suppose that's up to the courts to decide.

TheModeratorWrangler

Or we simply sanction their goods too because it’s not just US dollars they want. They want our IP. Look up the semiconductor war of East / West Germany to get it.

the_sound_of_a_cork

Can countries just confiscate American developed IP?

Draiko

It's not a boogie man, it's a genuine threat. China has been biting the hand that feeds for years via espionage, IP theft, supporting enemies, attacking allies, etc...

beyerch

Yeah but Elon's problem isn't IP theft, it's piss poor decision making. Hell, his batteries *ARE* Chinese.... If China wanted to, they could put Tesla out of business tomorrow.

Sneagle47

If Elon musk didn't have so many mental disorders we'd already have vine, I'm like 90% sure Twitter owned the IP. Just seems senile that nobody's even attempted to compete for short form content.

gnocchicotti

Sometimes economies do work when your sole supplier is charging 85-90% gross margins. Also a major reason AWS developed Graviton when dependent on Intel. Besides all these "custom" designs rely on outsourced manufactuong and heavy use of licensed IP, they're not truly an "in-house" product, more of a hybrid.

Agreeable_Ice_4774

There are a lot more problems than just the cost. R&D takes time. BTW, NVDA is running at 80% margin - you can technically estimate a breakeven point assuming another company can build the same IP by spending the same amount as nvidia. The numbers stop making sense pretty fast in the near term (next 2-3 years). I think we'll get some specialized workloads on these chips, but majority of capital spend is already locked in. I think this is what some people miss - NVDA is sold out for the next couple of years, they won't need to do a lot to maintain these margins for the coming 8 quarters.

John_mcgee2

I still remember years ago Apple pulled some manufacturing from China because they were stealing IP and musk moved in at the same time. Now musk is losing market to China. Any company that thinks their IP is safe there is nuts. Gotta hand it over when you arrive in that country

Abysswalker794

I think. Nintendo as a company is massively undervalued and underrated in general. It a fantastically lead business and the only thing which could disrupt their business are themselves, with a flop like the WiiU. But as they seem to go the Handheld only route in the future (with TV compatibility) I can’t see another flop like this again. Their IP are massive and they are just starting taking advantage of it outside of gaming. I think the future looks very very bright.

rx915

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little shit? Ill have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and Ive been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and Im the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. Youre fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and thats just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little clever comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldnt, you didnt, and now youre paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. Youre fucking dead, kiddo.

rx915

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little shit? Ill have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and Ive been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and Im the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. Youre fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and thats just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little clever comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldnt, you didnt, and now youre paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. Youre fucking dead, kiddo.

GeoLogic23

OGI just invested in a hemp extract company. Obviously they already have the CWEB connection too. https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20240326681362/en/Organigram-Invests-in-U.S.-Based-Open-Book-Extracts-Representing-Inaugural-Jupiter-Investment Tilray has talked about CBD and Delta 9 recently, saying they will have to be into it. Both CBD and D9 beverages make perfect sense given their legality, and ability to be sold nationwide. Jones Soda recently partnered with Tilray and just released Delta 9 beverages. Cann is the most popular cannabis beverage. It is hemp derived, and has long been associated with MedMen/HEXO. Snoop just released a Delta 9 beverage (Do It Fluid). ACB and CRON have shared minor cannabinoid biosynthesis IP together recently. Part of the final order on CBD, etc will be categorizing synthetically produced CBD the same as natural, as long as it's <0.1% THC. https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/aurora-and-22nd-century-group-license-foundational-biosynthesis-ip-to-cronos-group-301444681.html Might explain why both ACB and CRON both pulled out of their hemp derived CBD companies right after last year's DEA supply chain conference. This would also explain why CRON still lobbies mostly just for CBD in the US. https://lda.senate.gov/filings/public/filing/263e53bf-9401-4224-b740-2dd6acdcdbba/print/ You also have BAT and CRON (Btomorrow Ventures and Gotham Green) teaming up to fund Trait Biosciences. Trait has been working on water soluble cannabinoid tech since 2017. BAT and Gotham closed on financing for them in late 2023. They claimed they were ready to launch their product finally in the first quarter of 2024. This coincides perfectly with the expected final order on the 2018 Farm Bill that is currently supposed to be finished sometime in April (4/00/24). https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/trait-biosciences-closes-on-financing-led-by-bats-btomorrow-ventures-and-gotham-green-partners-and-advances-commercialization-of-unique-water-soluble-cannabinoids-301953852.html

chewbaccashotlast

I literally do not understand why Netflix has a higher market cap than Disney considering the assets and IP associated to Disney. Netflix being literally 30% higher is mind boggling to me. Does that mean Disney is undervalued, Netflix is overvalued, both, or something else? The only real answer is that the market will do what it wants with it. Interesting but Disney is barely up over the last year and is down over the last 5. And their P/E is still quite high so idk

hairychinesekid0

Fuselage IP65 rated lol

clearlybraindead

Objectively speaking, the US lifted a billion Chinese out of poverty and in return, they made IP theft a state program and started bullying all of our other friends in the area. Man, Kissinger really did suck at his job, or maybe he was stuck on a China that Mao had already killed.

clearlybraindead

>Dude that's a *Chinese* company filing lawsuit *against* Apple claiming Apple infringed on *their* patent lol. It's the opposite. And the IP in question was Siri, and Apple *lost*. So what happened was a Chinese company sued Apple over a bullshit IP case, and won. Why? Who knows, but probably not the judge. And if a broken court system doesn't give them enough, then they'll just upgrade to straight up [espionage](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/07/11/ex-apple-engineer-arrested-on-his-way-to-china-charged-with-stealing-companys-autonomous-car-secrets/). >I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but you were speaking in a blanket way, and at the end of the day our own companies decided the risk is worth the reward. I am using blanket language because the IP-for-access strategy isn't limited to Apple. You just brought them up. A lot of our businesses didn't know better. We only really started investing in China in the early 2000s and we were naive to think that a bunch of socialists were trustworthy. They only really started getting wise in the 2010s. Now, it's all about derisking and containing our Chinese supply chains as much as possible. >Which is why blanket ban is dumb as fuck. I never suggested a blanket ban. Just offer them the same environment they give us. Force them to give up their source codes and put backdoors in everything, put SEC agents on the boards of their US businesses, and never let them invest in infrastructure without partnering with a US business that can take over.

cookingboy

> You can literally just Google examples of American businesses getting screwed out of IP. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but you were speaking in a blanket way, and at the end of the day our own companies decided the risk is worth the reward. >Even apple, this was the first thing that came up. Dude that's a *Chinese* company filing lawsuit *against* Apple claiming Apple infringed on *their* patent lol. It's the opposite. >Yeah our conservatives are dumb Yeah totally. Like if relationship between the two countries really goes down the drain we can nationalize their factories and investment and they can nationalize ours. Allowing them to own properties and business interest here and investing in the U.S. is holding *leverage* against them. We should absolutely allow them to build factories in the U.S. (as long as they adhere to our labor and environment practices), it would be good for *our* economy, our workers, and let us be on even footing in terms of business leverage. Which is why blanket ban is dumb as fuck.

clearlybraindead

>??? What IP did Apple or Tesla lose? You can literally just Google examples of American businesses getting screwed out of IP. Even apple, [this](https://www.wsj.com/articles/apple-faces-1-4-billion-lawsuit-by-chinese-ai-firm-in-siri-patent-fight-11596436018) was the first thing that came up. If you really don't think China has an IP problem, you're either a troll or an idiot. >But when CATL and Ford tried to do a joint venture in Michigan (so we can "steal" their IP), the politicians freaked out because "China bad!" Yeah our conservatives are dumb. Missed opportunity for some MAD-style shenanigans with our businesses in China.

cookingboy

>If you come in big, you just lose all your IP if it's worth anything. ??? What IP did Apple or Tesla lose? >generally in the same way our businesses get to participate in China. What IP did Tesla or Apple make public? Did they sell to Chinese businesses first? >Require them to partner with our businesses so that we can take over their supply chains when we squeeze them out. If we are just talking about joint ventures like how GM does in China, they have no problem with it. But when CATL and Ford tried to do a joint venture in Michigan (so we can "steal" their IP), the politicians freaked out because "China bad!": https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-lawmakers-demand-documents-ford-battery-partnership-with-catl-2023-09-27/

clearlybraindead

China didn't kick out any businesses just as we didn't kick out ByteDance. The environment is just so hostile that it's functionally impossible to grow a medium sized business in China. If you come in small, you lose your IP and you'll get stripped for parts. If you come in big, you just lose all your IP if it's worth anything. >So at the end of the day you are advocating that we do not allow Chinese companies access to American market yet they should give us access to their market, in the name of “playing fair”. Oh we should absolutely let them in, but generally in the same way our businesses get to participate in China. Require them to make their IP public or sell it to an American business first before they get to participate in our market. Require them to partner with our businesses so that we can take over their supply chains when we squeeze them out.

clearlybraindead

We profit from unreliable and untrustworthy countries all the time. It doesn't mean it isn't a mistake when we do. Europe made billions off Russian gas, but boy are they paying for it now. China basically made it a national strategy to get American businesses invested, force them to give up IP and internal edges, outcompete them in their own product lines, then kick them out of the country. It's just taken on more mechanical precision and regularity since post 2008. China doesn't care about free trade and we should stop pretending like they do. TikTok needs to be the new standard. Chinese businesses should have to divest and reincorporate as American ones to keep doing business here.

St_BobbyBarbarian

China wants free trade for its exports, but puts up obstacles and IP theft chances for those that operate inside of China/export to China 

Extension-Temporary4

To be fair, their products were/are garbage at premium price points that couldn’t be justified. Rivian makes an amazing product, at a reasonable price point, but will that be enough? Candidly, I have my doubts. Elon was able to save Tesla, but Elon is also not human and was operating in a very different environment under very different financial circumstances. Point is, there’s a small chance Rivian succeeds, and if they do, the payoff will probably be pretty substantial given their IP.

greytoc

I have no idea. I am not in the gaming business. There are lawyers out there that handle gaming IP, you may want to talk with one of them.

Big-Today6819

Love you support stealing of IP from other companies?

thedmob

What is this interesting? MedMen failed miserably in the US. Why do you think there is any value in that IP for Germany?

defnotIW42

Okay. Thats interesting. Simon already grabbed himself the medmen IP and apparently he is going to do „something“ with it in Germany? Alrighty

SuzyCreamcheezies

Pablo Zuanic and Irwin Simon interview. [https://twitter.com/i/spaces/1yoJMwMzLeRKQ](https://twitter.com/i/spaces/1yoJMwMzLeRKQ) Not too many new revelations, but a few interesting points. 1. Irwin thinks that USA will allow medical imports on par with international markets. I'm sure this opinion will ruffle a few feathers. 2. They have a number of non-alcoholic (beer, spirits, emerge, water) products in the works. 3. They own the worldwide IP for MedMen, with plans for Germany. They also seem ready to use the USA MedMen assets when permissible, although who knows what form that would take.

SuzyCreamcheezies

Not much was said that hasn't already been said before. A few key points that stood out: 1. Irwin is of the **opinion** that USA will allow medical imports upon schedule 3, as is the case with other international medical markets. (emphasis mine) 2. Tilray looks to have a bevy of non-alcoholic beverages planned for the near term (beer, water, energy, etc.). 3. Tilray owns the worldwide IP for MedMen, with plans in the works for Germany. 4. Irwin thinks the Canadian budget is being released April 26 (it's April 16). Lol.

Ok_Ability1345

They have to clean up the middle management especially directors. Awful execution. They have great IP teams and great architecture as well. But nothing comes out early due to foundry or management style.

CelticCladdagh

That’s blatantly wrong. Disney+ is so popular with young children. Moana and Frozen are some of the most frequently played movies for kids. I do believe that some of their older IP has lost luxury though

chewbaccashotlast

I don’t think all the big movers is winner, winner, chicken, dinner. I think the market loves to inverse the common sense or sentiment and I also think certain stocks have really hard targets. $4.50/share EPS is really high. They could still miss and report really good guidance even if it’s bullshit and run up. CVNA is doing well despite being a terrible company that moderates used car sales to really shitty loans and can’t make money during the biggest boom of the used car industry in recent memory. My litmus test is this - Disney seems fairly priced or even should be closer to $100 and its market cap is less than Netflix. How in the actual F could all that IP and assets and overall breadth of coverage be worth less than a single streaming platform that could literally go away in under 3 years? Not saying they will, but they offer nothing that sets them apart from other streaming services other than they were first to market and to expand to every household.

the_TIGEEER

>Laughing, wouldn't it be better if you just said that the Chinese are not entitled to have their own position land China should not think of the Chinese first, but the Americans first? What's the point? Whaat? What are you talking about. I think your Translation app is not working correctly I recommend Chat GPT. >Unfortunately, we in China have our own interests and we only selectively co-operate with other countries when we have common interests. We are not dependent on you.The People's Republic of China didn't succumb to the Soviet Union in the 1950's (which gave us the second largest country in the world, China), and it won't succumb to the United States now. Why would you have to be dependent? Does it to you mean to have your own interests that you are anti USA for no reason because why can Japan S Korea and most of Europe be ok by bying on tje sode of the USA and China can't? >Don't you Americans only look at strength? I think it's ridiculous, what ability do you have to make China submit? Why woul I want to submit achian what? Wjat are you talking about? I never said that wtf your translation app must be worlimg wrong. >Also, with your mouth anyone can. Whaaat? > >Who the fuck started the trade war against China first? Who the fuck fucked up US-China relations first? Are you Americans three years old? I alleardy talked about this remember? The part where you stole our IP's for 50 years.. and espiomage and all that? ...

dancness

Everyone looks at depreciation expense and says sheesh. But these are bought and paid for assets. Meanwhile they are creating more IP to sell as part of normal business operations. At some point their expenses will decrease and they’ll start turning a profit. The real metric for success is 1. Positive EPS and 2. Positive FCF

TankComfortable8085

Lol. The american industrial revolution happened because some american workig in Britain memorised blueprijt schematics from hsi workplace and rebuilt it in America. IP theft had been happenening for centuries. Everyone does it. Actually, The europeans stealing gunpowder snd paper from China should be considered IP Theft too

polaarbear

They don't care about stealing IP. They poached a bunch of people who were employed by TSMC and Taiwan raided a bunch of Chinese companies to crack down on it. They didn't hire away a bunch of Intel and AMD employees, those people are Americans with little incentive to go live and work in China.  Having engineers to make litho machines doesn't mean you know how to lay out the dies for manufacturing, and Intel and AMD definitely aren't handing over engineering documentation to China.

FarrisAT

China already has multiple domestic CPUs and GPUs. It’s the issue of adopting the smart design in Ryzen and Nvidia Pascal into the designs… without violating IP and getting sanctioned into oblivion, which is the crux of the matter If Zhaoxin Loongsoon for example gets sanctioned, they’ll then adopt the Ryzen design pieces which are optimized. But this also means no US or European designer will ever share with China again. It’s a dumb short termist policy to blatantly steal IP.

Evening_Feedback_472

You literally said it yourself was trump not American ? They started this trade war shit. Now live with it. Again government shouldnt intervene with that shit. Individual companies have choices they full well know their IP will be robbed and keep expanding in China so what does that tell you ?

JakeTappersCat

Damn Rivian is .97x book value. 5B net cash and 8.9B valuation. The same analyst who gave nvidia a 3 trillion dollar price target gave a $4 price target on RIVN. According to BofA, Rivian's IP, factory and tech is worth negative six billion dollars (-$6B). That is some quality analysis!

katebushthought

That’s happened before, several times. They always dig themselves out. Because it’s Disney — a brand that millions of people are absolutely obsessed with. There’s not a single person on this planet who hasn’t been exposed to Disney IP in some way or another. If Disney were going under, people would raise money to save it… I guarantee it.

SnooLentils3298

they either go bankrupt or back to $20+ imo. 80% chance bankrupt. Amzn only bought them for their IP/designs.

jrex035

>America literally started it Started what exactly? The trade wars began under Trump back in 2018, but it wasn't until Biden that the US started sanctioning the chip industry/market in China. But its not like the trade war came out of nowhere, China has been pursuing unfair trade practices, enforcing steep tariffs, stealing IP, etc for decades now. The US has only recently started to retaliate.

jrex035

>While the West is showing itself to be an unreliable supplier, China is showing the opposite. Except of course that this is complete nonsense and shows you have no understanding about how China operates in the real world. Yknow, like Chinese state subsidized companies overproducing goods in order to dump them in the markets of other countries to destroy their domestic industries (which can't hope to compete with these practices) while China throws up huge tarrifs on most imported goods, the Chinese government making foreign companies jump through hoops to gain access to the Chinese market where they're often forced to share IP, operate at a disadvantage (often with higher taxes and more bureaucratic red tape), massive Chinese fishing fleets illegally fishing in other countries EEZ with the tacit approval of the government, etc. The US is far from perfect, but it doesn't do literally any of that, and fights to ensure global maritime trade lanes stay open (something China does literally nothing to assist with) and that international trade is as easy and safe as possible.

mingy

Why wouldn't they steal IP? They try to buy western companies, license western technology, buy western tools and are prohibited from doing so. Do you expect them to let the US dictate their industrial strategy?

griffith_odon

And yet Chinese companies have been trying to steal IP data. If they don't want to design anything around US technology, work on their own from scratch.

rbtcattail

There is also no way the DoD allows one of their largest contractors to risk having their IP enter bankruptcy.

LiberalAspergers

There is some IP of value. Even shut down, someone will buy them just for the patents.

Present_Particular84

i’m going to find ur IP and cum in ur mouf

king_tchilla

How do the IP companies play into this? anybody know?

sonofalando

If you setup a VPN server at your house and use dynamic dns to allow to resolve to your public IP you can route your remote traffic through your house gateway so the service sees your traffic originate from your public IP. Takes a bit of technical legwork but it’s doable.

Screwyball

Because their name, IP and customer list got bought at liquidation sale by overstock (now rebranded to Beyond inc)?

Own_Description7633

Tesla fans and investors have brought coping to a new dimension. Tesla just can’t make good cars yet. That takes decades of IP and experience. Now the 0-60 shenanigans have cooled off, it’s the robotaxis and utter shit full self driving (supervised lmao) that fuels relentless hope under degenerate gamblers and ikea interior folks

aka0007

I am a bear on Rivian. I just don't think the R1S or R1T are viable vehicles as is. The cost to make them is too expensive and the demand for them at the current price levels is insufficient. In a few years from now as batteries improve and get cheaper and EV supply chains improve the R1S and R1T might make more sense, but now it is an impossible vehicle. Frankly the cost and capabilities of EV's as a whole right now make them all a challenging vehicle to build and sell at a profit. That Tesla was able to pull this off, is nothing short of a miracle (or at least a lot of pieces working out for them at the right time). Without getting into the numbers, I think Rivian is stuck in a money pit where they cannot stop producing vehicles and yet every vehicle they produce causes them to lose more money. Development of a new vehicle is just going to drive up costs in the short-term, not save them. I think very likely before long they go bankrupt or come might close to it. Maybe in bankruptcy someone will buy out their IP and production lines and be able to figure out how to make their cars profitably, but doubt Rivian figures it out themselves.

FirstStoptheBleed

Chinese EV; also known as a knockoff Tesla built with misunderstood stolen IP. Allegedly.

Exact_Macaroon6673

It’s not like they had another option and chose to manufacture in China. If US companies don’t manufacture in China they won’t be competitive at scale. The challenge is finding a place on earth where goods can be manufactured at low cost, while protecting IP. Spoiler it doesn’t exist yet.

LonelyDocument1891

Didn’t he purposely put TSLA IP public in order to enhance the ecosystem of electric cars?

Uberslaughter

Export lol China straight up steals IP

Any-Ad-446

See what happens if you crash with a phone as a video camera or when its underwater for a few minutes.A IP68 is the basic level for water and dust protection on a phone..

WhySoUnSirious

Building an IP where other companies want to come and pay rivian for their processes/builds, building any relevant charging network (they are paying royalities to Tesla for theirs lol) , building any kind of actual autonomous driving unit team (they can’t afford the software engineering talent), building any kind of mobile servicing unit for maintantence and repair Building anything that even has global reach. No one outside of America is getting one lol. What a joke. Their domestic infrastructure is also laughable. Imagine actually believing this leadership team has what it takes to build a profitable company.

Kennzahl

You're talking about a Chapter 11 or equivalent. If Google (read: all shareholders) decide to pay off all their employees, debt, sell the core business to a (or multiple) competitors alongside all the user data, IP etc. You'd have a sum pretty close to the current market cap, if the market valued Google correctly.

erulabs

All I know is what instance types are most cost effective on AWS. I run one cpu sometimes at home. At work I auto scale up to 5000. The order is AMD->ARM (graviton) ->Intel. Nvidia stands apart as most training frameworks my developers want to use only run on nvidia chips. AMD is the only company that has a chance to own the IP behind AI chips besides nvidia which already does, hence the market caps.

Jeff__Skilling

Pretend you're Michael Lewis. Which sounds like a better lifestyle: (1) Being the best selling writer of financial non-fiction in the world, with your current library of IP just shitting free cash flow from book sales + royalties from all the movies your books inevitably get turned into or (2) Running a hedge fund probably somewhere between $500mm - $1.0bn in AUM, which would entail having to constantly be on the road fund raising / networking with current and potential LPs + constantly being on top of the market every single day and reallocating capital accordingly + having all of your LPs turn tail and pulling out capital at the first sign of distress, since most are probably pretty wary of sinking capital into an alternative investment vehicle actively managed by someone who hasn't sat on a trading desk since the 80s Sure, option 2 has the potential for insane wealth creation......but its also one of the most competitive industries on planet earth, and every ***if you do everything right*** the market can turn against you for no reason at all (remember, you can't hedge away systemic risk) -- plus there's the risk that reporting on financial news == ability to consistently beat the market Option 1 is ***by far*** the better choice if you ask me...

Swimming-Profile9069

This dude is only successful because he bought other people’s good ideas. Imagine if instead of buying Twitter ($44B) to unironically complain about predatory immigrants he had instead bought GM ($50B.) With GMs IP and infrastructure he could have easily scaled Tesla to a place where it would have exceeded deliveries instead of falling short. Additionally, just throw Tesla tech in a Hummer shell and that would be the cyber truck everyone really wanted rather than the abomination he made. That’s how you get to $2K/share.

OddToba

They need to license out the phrase “the Uber of _______”, probably their most profitable IP.

FullCopy

Elon decided to manufacture in China for short term gain. They have cheap labor but are very good at copying IP. Now, he’s got competition on the low and mid tier. Luxury? Well Porsche, Mercedes and Audi have nice offerings. Also, their cars don’t look like electric Saturns.

AccomplishedClub6

I was wrong about many high flying pandemic stocks. But I’m glad I was right about Roku and didn’t touch this with a ten foot stick. A company that has very little moat and no useful IP, plus a physical device you have to buy to watch TV when you can just stream stuff? No thanks.

kestrel808

All they do is license their IP, with ARMv9 being the most recent and profitable. Eventually open source RISC is going to eat their market share, but that's probably at least a couple of years away.

Ymca667

He's still not wrong, likely a decent amount of other ICs on your motherboard and other things you plug into it are made by intel or have intel IP in them. People love to pretend intel = CPU, when they are a 100k+ employee company with a huge amount of market segments. They're one of the biggest icebergs the consumer never really gets to see 95% of.

Pokerhobo

You're completely missing the point that ARM is successful partly because their IP is so cheap. If they start charging more, the industry will move onto a different architecture. In fact, it's much easier to do this now than ever before. Once most software had made the transition to supporting ARM32 and ARM64 from x86 and x64, it's now just a matter essentially of recompiling to a different architecture. MIPS may make a comeback if people start leaving ARM. Apple has shown how easily they switched from PowerPC to Intel to ARM. ARM as a company currently doesn't have a growth story because they are cheap and ubiquitous. if they try to change that, they will go the way of Intel.

Connect_Builder_2215

Exactly. Intel owns x86 basically and probably gets some royalties, which is really weird. Nvidia builds on synopsis IP it's weird stuff. In the end as an outsider it's hard to decipher where the highest value should lie. But owning IP is probably the least of it, even tho synopsis case I do think they bring a lot of design to the Nvidia table as well. Nvidia would suck without them probably.

jonscrambler

ARM processor/IP is popular because it’s cheap, they don’t have pricing power.

fredandlunchbox

People are still focused on the old disney model: can they sell movie tickets with the IP that has carried them for 12-15 years?  That model isn’t going to be the ATM that it has been, for them or anyone else, in the second half of the 21st century. If they want to be positioned as players in that new media landscape, they’ll need to adapt. That means streaming. That means gaming. And that means experiences. They’re establishing those foundations now, and 20 years from now, it’ll seem like a smart but obvious move and people will wonder why more entertainment companies weren’t doing the same.     Netflix knows they’re competing with gaming and they’ve expressed an interest in physical experiences as well: they want to be Disney as much as Disney wants to compete with netflix. I’d watch for them to make a big play for a gaming company.   

Ill-Independence-658

Irony of Russia abiding by IP license is wonderful

NoPause9609

It’s less than 1% of my portfolio as previously stated elsewhere and my investment timeline is “patient capital”.  A fall from peak markets in 2021 is nearly as meaningless to me as how an entire entertainment IP performs.  Sorry you’re so triggered by every tiny up and down in your “investments” that you think losing money makes a business “broke.” $300 million spend on a annual profit of $30 billion is 1% you dumb fucking bootlicker. $30 billion is double the profit your ketamine boyfriend made at Tesla.  If you need investment advice, maybe invest in grammarly as a tool, or take the time to read more.  You write and use logic like someone who still needs their Mum’s help to change panties.  Ciao bitch. 

RefuseMaterial5639

This company is just a spinoff of Xperi technologies, which was was a conglomerate of a bunch of acquisitions, including of TiVo. It seems like basically as a tax loophole, Xperi put ownership of all of its IP(e.g. here's the DBI tech mentioned in the Adeia 10-K [https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/news/moores-law-xperi-new-die-to-wafer-bonding-technology-ic-package/](https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/news/moores-law-xperi-new-die-to-wafer-bonding-technology-ic-package/)) under Adeia and split into two companies. It basically lets them return capital to shareholders without them paying taxes on it as a dividend or distribution. Adeia consists of 130 employees total, so I highly doubt they have enough people to actually be performing any sort of R&D on semiconductors. A large part of their revenue appears to come from patents for internet based television outside of the US, which probably originally came from their merger with TiVo. IMO stay away

fishermansfriend01

Some of the actually good titles they've released: 2 Spongebob Games, Remake and a new game. Snowrunner Valheim Satisfactory Songs Of Conquest Goat Simulator Deep Rock Galactic Ride 4 Alone in the Dark Expeditions Rome Darksiders 3 They also have the LOTR IP and owns the biggest tabletop game publisher in the world Asmodee. Asmodee have the pokemon card market in the EU so there's that and their new Starwars Cardgame that's sold out. Just hyping! It's a pretty interesting company and I've been holding since 2018.

Silvatungdevil

A great illustration of the state of Disney is Star Wars. Disney buying the Star Wars IP is possibly the business deal of the century. $4 billion for a money printer. They have proceeded to shit all over it since then. The only thing that will save Star Wars at this point is to get rid of Kathleen Kennedy and give complete creative control to Dave Filoni. I know that has "supposedly" happened but I have a real hard time believing it has happened in practice because some of the newer stuff I am seeing come out of Lucasfilm is still the same old shit.

Beast0045

Well everyone but tesla (outside maybe BYD) missed the first serious adoption phase. So now they will all not be ready nor will they have any IP, processes, supply chains, engineers, etc etc for the next wave of buyers….

somethingesque

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.

memeteam1993

"Woke" or not, the movie and cable businesses are in permanent decline. ESPN has been bad for them and they are constantly trying to offload it. Streaming is not as economically profitable even if they can somehow prove to be successful at it. Plus the fuck rate is plummeting, so their audience actually is, and will only become more so, man-children. Star Wars and Marvel are the cash cows for this demographic, but they've pretty much squeezed all the cash they can out of those (The Marvels tanked). I haven't seen anything from them that suggests they are capable of organically creating the next big IP. Basically IMO the stock was way oversold and this is a dead cat bounce but I wouldn't want to be long here. Still has an above-market multiple based on boomer perception of a brand value that isn't worth that much anymore. Parks/hotels/cruises are ok but why own the rest of this shitty media biz when you could buy MAR or some cruise line if you really wanted to.

Tripondisdic

I mean they’re probably fine let’s be real. The reason they are stalling is because they’ve abandoned the principles their company was founded on; they’ve stopped pushing the boundary of entertainment and are instead choosing to recycle old IP’s and use cookie cutter plots to new IP. Hopefully soon someone will remember what made disney great in the first place; Id rather they take risks and fuck up occasionally rather than always choosing the safe route

JehovasFinesse

It doesn’t adjust based on bank accounts but address and location. Even a prepaid forex card with an Indian currency might work for you if you tried but your IP address will raise red flags since you’ll never be in India and will forget VPNs or they won’t work and you might get banned.

IntolerantModerate

Disney is in a very weird spot in it's IP cycle. Star Wars is out to pasture until they are ready for a remake. Marvel universe is too tired and needs new a break. Half their old stuff needs a redo because it makes fun of Jews, blacks, Italians, Chinese, etc. And the parks are so crowded nobody wants to go.

Rockhardsimian

Woah I misunderstood the first sentence of the second paragraph and I changed how I understood your whole comment. My mistake , I very much agree with what you are saying. Where are the Muppet parody movies? Where’s Winnie the Pooh? They are seriously neglecting a lot of their IP. I felt similarly about Warner Brothers with Looney Toons. Though recently they’ve been making more LT content.

DarkLordKohan

Shit opinion. Disney is stacked with IP, merchandising, content for advertisers cozy up for the next 50 years of replay value, expensive parks and a couple years of covid flops is nothing. Everyone knew the name of the streaming game was to shotgun out content to fill out the library. Now millions of parents can watch Bluey, then Taylor Swift then clone wars. Share price is not the company.

eightslipsandagully

In one sense, Andor wasn't super "Star Wars"-y. But I loved it and it was a breath of fresh air for the IP. I realise that Disney are so ruthless that will just keep pushing out generic shit but a small part of me holds out hope they will start making *some* really gritty, complex shows.