IP

Hail_Zeus

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.

Remarkable-Hall-9478

Immigration is the most recent symptom of the same root problem and it’s undermining our ability to solve ANY of the problems discussed in this thread It merely adds to the economic pressure and drains the nation of even more resources, disrupts generational growth, and crippled our IP-heavy tech development industries. The social liberal idea of giving every melanated human on earth a visa and a subsidized $500k home loan is much closer to insanity than  policy, and it has contributed largely to this. The mass immigration is merely a downstream symptom of the core problem the country faces, though it does create an economically damaging positive feedback loop.

3BlindProphets

I’m Gujarati you twat my family has made a killing exporting tech jobs back home. I’m in c stores, housing dev, commercial plazas, and 70% of my profit goes back home to build infrastructure. India is 100% ready to steal your IP. Hell, I’ve found American products and sent them to my uncles in industrial manufacturing to make knock offs. You sound exhaustingly poor and very unwilling to make money. Congrats you’ve made it easier for me, an Indian American to rob you instead of a Chinese American lol. When will you Christian beasts of burden wake up to your Zionist masters? Shit I want Kashmir so bad and even I can see what they do to yall. Tragic.

SilentBeetle

Like, Vietnam and China are pretty close but China still dumps goods and is constantly using shows of force in Vietnam's sovereign waters. Respectful my ass. Reliable my ass. Better? Only if you consider IP theft and barring foreign companies in your markets then I guess you're right. What kool-aid have you been drinking if you think China is Better, more reliable and more respectful by any stretch of the imagination?

reddituil

Actually you can achieve a permanent free trial by switching your IP address, if what you said is correct, then there may be a significant number of zombie accounts

Few_Performance4264

This 100%. The customers are not coming back, and that’s grassroots consumer mentality the world-over. The kicker comes later. This will be the norm over the next two decades, not months or years. You can’t overstate the negative impression the world has about these tariffs/threats. Countries are being threatened and the tariffs represent the tangible actions of those threats. This is what the world is reacting to. If you don’t see the parallels between this superpower and other former superpowers ratcheting the threats against culturally similar neighbours, then you really aren’t paying attention and don’t understand what’s about to come. It starts with perishable consumables then moves along to more durable goods. Following goods come services. Banking. Military. Insurance. Tech. The last 4 are huge. Trillion dollar military RFQs with American designs specifically written out. Physical and digital infrastructure tech being replaced with regional IP. Insurance and banking strategically replaced with local underwriters, ownership and management. The economy is running on Christmas/birthday money right now. The market is down now only in speculative terms. It will tumble further once the data catches up. It will fall again once it’s viewed as partially failed. Following that, YOY declines as the longest term purchases and leases from gov and big tech divest and diversify, in pursuit of stability and safety.

jshmoe866

It’s a long term hold with strong support in the lower ranges so risk of bankruptcy is not as high as where the stock is trading. The debt is a challenge but they have time to restructure. Money and time are just the reality of building new state-of-the-art chip fabs. They already have the experience and IP

Field_Sweeper

They will feel more pain that we will, TRUST me on this. We would have to move mfg BACK here, not start over, they would lose business, we would simply lose some products. Or some would go up, many of which can be bought elswhere, just sometimes for more. But you know what, fuck china because every fucking thing from that country is a scam in some way, cheap or built poorly, SURE some things are "ok" but even their buildings will use fake ass steal rebar causing a collapse (yeah, look it up) China doesn't give a fuck about anyone else, the off hours IP theft and knock offs etc. Good fucking riddance.

Durantye

First let me quote something for you: >one of Second, that is what reddit pretended to care about pre-2025. Countries are absolutely livid with China for baiting countries into setting up manufacturing with them and then legalizing IP theft when everyone was already there.

dickcheesess

>You do realize China's refusal to respect IP is one of the primary drivers of the rest of the world hating them, right? Actually no, I did not. I thought it was the censorship, human rights violations and territorial disputes. Silly me.

Durantye

Your solution for China is to steal intellectual property on an even grander scale than they already do? You do realize China's refusal to respect IP is one of the primary drivers of the rest of the world hating them, right? This would be China all but threatening to steal everything from countries that cross them and something tells me the other countries aren't going to enjoy that threat.

triton420

You are correct about IP. The people using manufacturing in China were aware of the IP issue, but they still chose to base their manufacturing in China. That is on the US companies and their greed, not China.

Crazy_Donkies

We both lose. 10mm is 1% of their population. Maybe 2% of their workforce? I think it's reasonable to expect we lose 2% of our workforce as well. 2% of our shipping, retail, and warehousing jobs. Plus the loss to small businesses. All with higher salaries than the manufacturers in China. Don't know this math, but I think we're both losing. Disclaimer: I'm not defending China - they are IP thieves. However, there's a better way to do all of this.

Anatoly_Cannoli

China has not seized anything past its own historic border territories. The US imported transatlantic slaves from Africa to establish its economy, murdered the natives on the US continent, spent 200 years stealing IP from Europe to improve its technology, has military bases all over the world to support its global hegemony and has historically bombed the shit out of nations halfway across the world to establish favorable trade. How do you think we got Hawaii, Guam, and Puerto Rico? but China is the imperialist?

SilentBeetle

They're a bully calling the bully, a bully. 9 dash line, transshipment, IP theft, currency manipulation, debt trap development. I could go on.

theTallBoy

They own the dollar. One of the main reasons for the dollar still being as strong is from debt purchases. Trump and his gaggle of morons think that China cares? They can cripple the US in a multitude of ways. Deregulation and bullshit IP laws sent the entire US economy overseas. Then, to make sure the overproduced garbage could be purchased, they bought up debt to keep the dollar strong. I'm a fucking idiot and I know this.

Vix_Satis01

and why would they? china doesnt need us. they'll just steal the IP and make it themselves if they need it.

I_am_-c

Taking a balanced look at it: Should it be a surprise that China, with exceptionally low labor rates, virtually no environmental concerns limiting their access to minerals and other raw materials, zero international respect for IP, huge subsidies and payments to Chinese companies, and impenetrable barriers for foreign entities to own local business... should it be a surprise that they want to ensure their fully advantaged companies also get a benefit of free trade? Trump's idea of using tarriffs as a bargaining tool is pretty short-sighted given that the carrot:stick thing doesn't work as well when the stick has barbs at both ends and more and more countries are figuring out that the US doesn't really have the appetite to implement the tariffs... especially given China's position as the manufacturer of over 30% of the world's goods. But, should a single country be the world's factory? Is everyone ok basically outsourcing their pollution, their poor labor practices? Should IP have zero protection? Are we fine with full industries being 'bought' by a country thru a combination of all of the above (Battery and EV)? China is fighting this because they have to fight this. Honestly Trump over played his hand, but global free trade is and always was just a way to hide all the ugly bits of greed. Hide the environmental disasters, the labor abuse, the stealing, screwing the small guy and paying the big guy. But rather than actually evaluate the discussion on merit, it's way more popular to just say that Trump is bad so now China is good... go China, go Xi, tariffs bad, free trade good.

Mindless_Ad5500

Look. Trump messed up hard in every imaginable way when trying to implement these tariffs. However, other counties also know that China is a bad actor in its own rights when it comes to trade. Corruption, stealing of IP, not allowing competition in its country…. The world knows it will only have to deal with Trump for these 4 years. Presidents come and go. Unfortunately, this is the hand that has been dealt to us and the world for now. This will pass. With some pain unfortunately.

betadonkey

The US government retains significant IP rights over ASML technology and many critical vendors are based in the US. They don’t have a choice.

betadonkey

The US government retains significant IP rights over ASML technology and many critical vendors are based in the US. They don’t have a choice.

Shot_One_9124

This is reaching. Heavily. China steals all the countries it works with and does trade with Intellectual Property and reverse engineers it for cheap. They then put tons of foreign businesses, all across the world, where the technology IP was created.. out of business. They have no guarantee's for trade protections at all. I can't tell you how many stories of someone attempting to purchase wholesale goods that never make it to the port but 16K USD goes missing. They want a war with Taiwan so they can control the worlds chip foundaries and make everyone else bow at their boots. They constantly attack india when india has not provoked them. They struggle to feed their people in certain regions. Tofu Dreg construction has literal cities crumbling. The youth population are extremely disenchanted by the low wage high stress job market. The 1 child law made it so there's not enough young people to prop up the older generations anymore. China injected more than 35% of its currency reserves when the Tariff's were announced to stop the stock market from effectively plunging. I work in wholesale with Chinese counterparts and almost every single one of my wholesalers has lost 80% of their volume and cannot sustain this business practice for long. More than one person I work with lost over 40k USD (For a Chinese citizen this is insane on a way bigger level.) in the stock market. The current regime is being questioned. You forget how little the world actually gets to look into what China is doing and going through. Believing a press conference isn't reality. These statements I laid out before you are the realities. I work with their factories and wholesalers. I have a direct line. I don't love Trump either. But you're smoking COPIUM.

Shot_One_9124

This is reaching. Heavily. China steals all the countries it works with and does trade with Intellectual Property and reverse engineers it for cheap. They then put tons of foreign businesses, all across the world, where the technology IP was created.. out of business. They have no guarantee's for trade protections at all. I can't tell you how many stories of someone attempting to purchase wholesale goods that never make it to the port but 16K USD goes missing. They want a war with Taiwan so they can control the worlds chip foundaries and make everyone else bow at their boots. They constantly attack india when india has not provoked them. They struggle to feed their people in certain regions. Tofu Dreg construction has literal cities crumbling. The youth population are extremely disenchanted by the low wage high stress job market. The 1 child law made it so there's not enough young people to prop up the older generations anymore. China injected more than 35% of its currency reserves when the Tariff's were announced to stop the stock market from effectively plunging. I work in wholesale with Chinese counterparts and almost every single one of my wholesalers has lost 80% of their volume and cannot sustain this business practice for long. More than one person I work with lost over 40k USD (For a Chinese citizen this is insane on a way bigger level.) in the stock market. The current regime is being questioned. You forget how little the world actually gets to look into what China is doing and going through. Believing a press conference isn't reality. These statements I laid out before you are the realities. I work with their factories and wholesalers. I have a direct line.

PloppyPants9000

Well, you would think that law makers are lawyers... you know, the people who actually know the law? But you also do want a healthy dose of diversity in congress so that everyone has good representation and there is some degree of subject matter expertise and competence in fields they're supposed to govern -- it's embarrassing to see congress members grilling tech companies on basic IT stuff. Like, cmon, you don't even know what an IP address is? How can you be trusted to regulate the industry effectively then?

MadRussian387

Coming from a dictatorship that steals IP, puts its people in concentration camps, socially rates people and won’t let them leave the country if the score does not meet communism party “expectations”, coerces nations into giving up their natural resources as a payment for providing humanitarian aid, etc. No folks, US government may be unreasonable, but XI and his goodies are straight up evil.

jerpear

I think there is a world where the upside of China heavily outperforms all of those economies, which is where I'd argue we're accurately pricing in China's risks, but not rewards. Is there a possibility that China completely dominates the world's high margin manufacturing and takes a significant chunk of the services industry? Absolutely. Some of the most telling indicators are the high margin ship manufacturing that's changing from SK to CN, CNC machine manufacturing is now dominated by China, as are most 14nm+ fabs. Even things like aviation, optics and robotics will soon have significant Chinese competitors. Most countries you mentioned each has significant potential that we're pricing in, but significant downsides too. India is much less developed than China, infrastructure struggles, caste issues and corruption MUCH more severe than China's at the moment. India also struggles a lot with innovation and technology. China forced IP transfers, India much less so, and has a much less existential need to be technologically independent, somewhat limiting its potential. Vietnam has geographical and resource limitations. Vietnamese bureaucracy is also pretty convoluted and difficult to navigate. Mexico has a lot of internal instability, and while being next to the US has a lot of benefits, it comes with its own downsides as well. None of those countries you mentioned is as far developed, as advanced technologically, as stable politically (maybe Vietnam, but that's very debatable) and very importantly, as ambitious as how China envisions itself in the upcoming 2 decades. As you said, maybe one of those countries will become the provider of cheap labour and manufacturing, but that's a role that China is actively looking to move past, and lead in technological advancements, precision manufacturing and productivity efficiency. Those upsides, if they're successful (big if), are consistently being under valued, probably because of the negative effects they'll have on the European and in particular, American economies.

Anticipointment

The CCP has been stealing IP, using child and slave labor to keep costs low, manipulating its currency, and falsely claiming developing nation status with the WTO and the U.S. is the bully for wanting reciprocal trade deals? Hahaha What a crock of shit 😂

Alone-Supermarket-98

Ummm...no, they dont. The US doesnt import food, energy, and essentials from China. It would be nice to have an open and free trade arrangement, but it would also be nice to not have china impose protectionist trade barriers to US imports, theft of expensive IP and R&D, government subsidized exports that perpetuates massive uneconomic overcapacity, and currency manipulation. But it would also be nice not to have a china that openly supports an aggressor like russia as it murders hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians, that doesnt try to unilaterally annex tens of thousands of Square miles of International waters, that doesnt bully neighboring countries in order to exploit their natural resources, and who isnt the largest repressor of basic human rights in the world, but we cant have everything, can we?

tuthegreat

So you saying chinese people only know how to steal IP and copy cat?

Bloomien

Can’t lie. The way China has been operating has been dead wrong. Stealing IP and counterfeiting, kicking original IP owners out of their own market, now LEGALIZING IP THEFT (what kind of country legalizes theft????)—so many immoral and unethical things to push China to the forefront by any means necessary. But this was not the way to go about it. You gotta coax the beast into its place. Now, it seems that it may be too late turn back on this road. It’s sink or swim now

howtobealover

Just curious, What do u mean “even the playing field?” Also, Can u be specific in the international trade advantages youd like to see working in favor of USA? I think this is at center of the mission. Id like to see US invest in American core strengths and IP to empower what USA is already great at and enhancing it. Not trying to force being good at something from 100 years ago. Mayb invest in innovation, at state and local levels. Plan a future that doesn’t depend on what China does/doesnt do, China does fd up stuff no doubt. America too. No nation perfect. But diff strategies call for diff measures.

Antique-Resort6160

Why is it heroic for China to try to maintain their advantages in trade but shitty for the US to try to even the playing field? Why can't the US use the same protections China has to reduce a giant trade deficit?  Aside from stealing IP, i guess.

MountainDadwBeard

I think it's more about the American market than the Chinese one. American companies are dumping every penny into top GPUs. They avoid Huawei because Huawei has backdoors so the Chinese can download all their intellectual property. If Huawei chips ever became significantly more competitive, the AI race would necessitate considering risking buying Huawei to win the race vs knowing the Chinese would steal all their IP. It's not a position anyone wants to be in

Sad_Sorbet_9078

Upvoted you but it's debatable. Who are they going to steal their IP from? They need SiC more than us.

WunkerWanker

Does it benefit the US? Then it's fine. Does it not benefit the US? Then it's bad. It's totally fine by me that China steals US IP. US is doing everything it can to stop China from advancing. Export restrictions on chips, seizing TikTok. Now the crazy tariffs. The US is the worst of the two evils. More competition is better for the consumer.

Prestigious-Duck-189

Besides, they’re not working on any in-house sales or marketing operations. It’s pretty common in this industry to develop a drug and sell or license out the IP to big pharma right after final data comes in. Basically where SLS will be any moment now. Getting a drug past final FDA approval ánd rolling it out commercially is really a Big Pharma game.

NegativeSemicolon

Huawei is really, really good at stealing IP and ripping off tech. If they use their expertise to copy nvidia that would be monumentally bad (for nvidia).

Decent-Photograph391

Stealing other’s IP… you mean like the US stealing IP of European countries years ago? https://www.history.com/articles/industrial-revolution-spies-europe *”Long before the United States began accusing other countries of stealing ideas, the U.S. government encouraged intellectual piracy to catch up with England’s technological advances.” “Lowell was hardly the first American to pilfer British intellectual property. The Founding Fathers not only tolerated intellectual piracy, they actively encouraged it.”*

Master_Tourist1904

So you justify stealing by claiming we also stole? Never mind that isn’t the case, but no point in arguing about it. My point is, the CCP engage in government funded IP theft, which is wrong, regardless of how they might try to justify it.

WantedtoRetireEarly

No doubt that the Chinese are involved in massive IP theft. But this kind of thing is not new. The US when it was a young country stole lots of English IP and inventions to create the first mills in this country. Agree that China does it on a whole different scale and is much more of a threat. More than two centuries ago, the young United States, an agrarian backwater lacking in skilled workers, held a different view of other nations’ trade secrets: They were, it seemed, up for grabs. In 2012, having surveyed the sordid history of U.S. industrial espionage, the journal Foreign Policy called America “the China of the 19th century. “Only after becoming the leading industrial power did it become a champion of intellectual-property protections,” said Andreas, author of “Smuggler Nation: How Illicit Trade Made America.” [https://apnews.com/general-news-b40414d22f2248428ce11ff36b88dc53](https://apnews.com/general-news-b40414d22f2248428ce11ff36b88dc53)

ElektroThrow

That’s false. For the peaceful 90s and 2000s, the US had an average import tariff of 1.5%. China had 5%. For DECADES, China has been unfair to the rest of the world in trade. A company cannot set up in China without being hand held and IP stolen by the CCP.

Jellym9s

There's a rumor going around Jensen wants to create a JV in China... Clearly Jensen realizes that the AI bubble train only keeps chugging while the growth appears infinite. And this only happens if Nvidia can dominate the Chinese market. Huawei coming out with this Chip, Trump going harder than Biden on restricting Nvidia, and the trade war are certainly not helping, so Jensen has to "make a deal with the devil", since a Chinese JV will allow them to keep a top spot but it also means that China will probably get Nvidia IP and designs... which I don't think the US will allow. So, Nvidia is in check and probably 2 moves away from mate. The other thing is that Nvidia was priced for a monopoly. If China creates a duopoly, Nvidia can't hold their lofty expectations of being the king anymore. And since people are leveraged on Nvidia and bought a ton at the top, people are nervous about being caught holding the bag. News flash, you already are and have been.

Master_Tourist1904

Amazing what you can do when you get a head start by stealing other’s IP.

Cruezin

Cree has great IP. Shitty management after shitty management, but the tech is real. It's a good long term buy imo. As for today who tf knows. Earnings isn't for a couple weeks.

Warhawk_1

The thing you have to remember is that the consensus shift in the west about the decline of the USA is a new thing. Originally even as just a year ago the consensus prognosis generally was that the USA would stop being a global hyperpower, but it would be balanced by China's demographic issues in a kind of slow convergence over the next 20 years. This was premised on the USA intelligently using its seat as the core of financial flows to make trade and IP and alliance competition based on some variation of non-China vs China. Even in China, there was post-COVID a feeling that this was the likely outcome, and it was why there serious consideration of "invading Taiwan while they can". The tariff war has re-aligned consensus in that the USA is accelerating its pulling of its own kill switch. So instead of a slow decline from hyperpower to superpower it will be quick, and the reordering of deals will also be worse. The Chinese progress in chips and the increased embargoes from the West are also now appearing to create a situation where they've accomplished what CCP planners failed to do for 40 years in creating a native born chip industry while IP designers in the west are locked out from the money in the Chinese market necessary to stay competitive for R&D. I think it's very telling that if you pay attention to serious Chinese nationalist circles they've significantly decreased advocating for invading Taiwan bc the view has started to become that Taiwan will on its own choose to integrate with the mainland in the future because there's no other realistic option without a credible US security guarantee and Taiwan's economy being tightly integrated with the mainland I'm not saying I agree with the accelerated decline view mind you. But it's what people are thinking that they are often too polite to say.

ThinkingOfTheOldDays

china ignoring WTO accession agreement, stealing global IP, preventing most influential US firms from operating there, and backstopping Russia's war in Ukraine amounts to them starting this shit, imho.

ThatsAllFolksAgain

To be fair, China has been ripping off America in different ways including unfair trading and IP theft. So technically they are the aggressors. But, the way trump is dealing with them has been utterly stupid. It’s like your enemy just nicked you and in retaliation you chop off your arm and slowly bleed to death.

Cruezin

I swear no one gets China is not just stealing IP, THEY ARE CREATING IT TOO.

therealjerseytom

I think it's important to have a delineation between "AI" in the sense of like, literally some form of intelligence, and machine learning with big data and the associated analytics. A ChatGBT prompt of "make me a picture of a samurai cat eating sushi" is superficial bullshit. All of that crap is a fart in the wind. In industry, crunching terabytes, or petabytes of data with neural networks to advance your sector or your company's IP has been a real thing for at least 15-20 years.

GustavoTC

Again, yeah it's different. So the analysis needs some nuance on this. China isn't a free for all like you said, there would be consequences for massive changes in ownership, but in general the government decides which fights to pick (to preserve the public image and narrative). No country could function if everyone is unsure that they'd have a home tomorrow, it's your misunderstanding of their regime and society. Similarly, the US IP rights isn't a good reference, they are frequently misused and manipulated. How much has the whole AI field infringed on IP? Just look at how so many industries use it to kill any competition. Especially for pharmaceutical companies, they hate the lax regulations in India or Brazil which aid in the fabrication of generics for pennies on the dollars, and lobby the US government to force their IP laws worldwide

--SlumLord--

To address your post. Yes, it's possible the US loses its spot as the global reserve currency and all the pros and cons that entails, but who would take their position? China? Their manipulation makes the US look like a pure free market, everyone knows they are the biggest currency manipulator and steal foreign IP for fun it seems. Their "innovation" is a race to the bottom of copycatting foreign IP and making it with slave labor. They also are in the middle of a government made real estate crisis. EU? They have been on an economic downturn for decades now and have serious demographic issues. Their open borders policies that flooded the block with religious extremists will lead to more and more instability. Japan? Aging population, economic stagnation etc The reality is there is no one else that can succeed the US as the global reserve currency, and thus become the new leader of the current global order. Now it is entirely possible that globalization ceases to exist and we head for a more nationalistic environment. In which I would argue the US has a head start since it is sparking this change and has the world's most advanced military.

userlivewire

It’s really an unfair playing field considering China doesn’t have to abide by the same IP laws everyone else does.

Mod-Quad

I wonder what sort of IP Chevrolet had that warranted a give it up or get out scenario? Their Piano Black paint formulation??

Employee28064212

\^\^THIS right here is why I initially couldn't bring myself to invest. The mod system, permanent bans in subs, and IP bans (wtf)...Like, I just can't get on board with that level of micromanagement. BUT...then I see how engaged the user base is with relation to how the site functions and how valuable tech of any kind has become and Reddit appears to an actual tech company vs. blogging platform.

Professional_Oil3057

A whole lot of "economists" last week, now a while bunch of manufacturing experts. Maybe just stop spouting shit you don't understand? Manufacturers have beef trying to get out of China for years. They are getting expensive, shipping is a pain IP theft is a problem, cccp is increasingly hostile to foreign business. This is the kick in the pants a LOT of companies will use to pull corner manufacturing in favor of, Sri Lanka, Phillipines, Vietnam, Cambodia etc. This hurts China a LOT right as the beginning of their demographic decline is starting. China will get desperate and do something stupid, like invade Taiwan

HOT-DAM-DOG

KULR is very interesting. Energy storage is going to be exponentially important moving forward. Their sales are down but in 2024 but they made up for that in increased contract revenue and started getting a million from IP. They also cut costs, though I am a bit worried they also reduced R&D spend which is crucial for their industry, probably just a natural decline and not actually cutting of R&D (I hope). Definitely adding this one to my list of high growth stocks. Thanks for the suggestions!

paper_plains

So much this. He’s a good actor and does crazy ass stunts. And he does original IP (for movies) sci-fi that’s solid af like Oblivion, Edge of Tomorrow, and Minority Report. Hell, his War of the Worlds remake is hugely underrated.

jredful

Chevrolet did the same thing. Until China demanded that Chevy share all their IP with their Chinese partner.

SULT_4321

YIKES NOW TRUTHSOCIAL HAS MY IP ADDRESS!!! You shoulda warned me!

BruhGamer548

"In a social media post on Sunday, Trump listed eight types of what he called "non-tariff cheating": currency manipulation; VATs that act as tariffs and export subsidies; dumping below cost; export and other government subsidies; protective agricultural standards, such as no genetically engineered corn in the EU; protective technical standards; counterfeiting, piracy, and IP theft worth over one trillion dollars a year; and transshipping to evade tariffs. He mentioned the Japanese test as an example of protective technical standards. During his first term in 2018, Trump alleged that in a Japanese test of foreign vehicles, a bowling ball is dropped on the hood of a car from a height of 20 feet. The president insisted that if the hood dents a little bit, the car does not qualify. He said the way Americans are treated is "horrible." The White House press secretary at that time said the next day that Trump was obviously "joking." A US fact-checking organization concluded the claim was false." Source: https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20250421_10/

cpeytonusa

There is a real possibility that Trump’s purpose with the tariffs is geopolitical rather than economic. In a 2020 speech Xi declared a “people’s war” against the United States. I guarantee that Trump is aware of that speech and what has transpired since then. That term has a specific meaning for the CCP. A people’s war means the alignment of all of China’s resources towards the destruction of the United States. Fentanyl, anti American propaganda on TikTok, promoting class warfare on social media, espionage, IP theft, domination of supply chains, and other forms of attack on the fabric of American society are all aspects of the people’s war. The strongest card the US government has to play is access to its consumers. The greatest vulnerability of China is its dependence on trade surpluses with the outside world. If the US simply blocked imports from China the Chinese would still have significant export surpluses with the outside world. Trump is aware that it would be a very lengthy process to persuade the world to stop trading with China diplomatically. It would be akin to herding cats. Tariffs represent a coercive tool to shock our trading partners into choosing between access to the American consumer or having there domestic industries destroyed by Chinese imports. Tariffs are a blunt force tool, but that likely appeals to Trump.

SizzleBird

A tired, boring take from 2005 that demonstrates just how out of touch most folk are with the current global situation. Yes, Chinese companies benefitted from international companies knowingly sharing their IP as they moved manufacturing there — which was always understood when those companies agreed to cheaply outsource. Since that point decades ago Chinese tech, education，infrastructure and scientific development in key industries has been rapidly outpacing the US and Europe, not to mention major investment from the Chinese government in advanced tech. Chinese industry tech development is highly competitive within China alone, and producing and selling products fully domestically within China is as easy as ever — what exactly is the US innovating on *today* that China can’t compete with?

jsm2008

The problem in this formula is that, while China is truly awful, his main beef is with American companies who have shipped production to China. Trump needs to be sitting down with individual industries in America and saying “what can we do to bring your production back to the USA?”  There are a lot of places we can “win” against China -  1. IP laws MUST be enforced because China stealing other countries inventions and using slave labor to take over the market for them has ruined economies across the world.  2. China should have to follow similar ethics to other major countries. There is a real discrepancy in the way Chinese companies handle employment and it leads to other countries having no way to compete.  3. The inability for Americans to handle business themselves in China is not reasonable. Why do Chinese corporations have huge shares in American companies, freely open offices here, etc. but American companies can’t even own the majority of share in China? This leads to American companies essentially sending blueprints to China then buying the produced goods back from them.  Honestly we are probably better off to boycott China on many fronts. Long-term this is not bad for the world if we would have been smarter and gotten EU, Canada, etc. on our side to be firm with China.  The problem is that Trump’s economic fight is largely with the companies themselves and not China. And the fight was lost 30 years ago when American production was shut down and sold off to slave labor countries. We are now spoiled on slave-produced goods that we still complain are too expensive. 

Maxcharged

Really? because it’s one of 2 things people have said recently when China comes up. Tech bros whining that “they stole me IP” and MBA’s pretending they don’t know China had a planned economy. I’m so tired of the “no fair, China cheated” mentality. It’s pure copium. Western corporations made a purely profit driven decision to move manufacturing to China, knowing their IP would be copied, it wasn’t theft, that’s the deal they signed for cheap manufacturing. Anyone executive claiming “we’d never have gone to China if we knew it was like this” is lying to you. They’re literally just fuming that their golden goose is cooked and they may have to downsize to 6 summer homes instead. You can’t exploit a foreign labor force for profit, then act shocked and betrayed when that country doesn’t let its people keep being exploited for the profits of foreign corporations.

iChinguChing

The U.S. used IP “piracy,” reverse engineering, and lax IP enforcement as a national growth strategy during its rise—just as Britain, France, and Germany had done in their own earlier industrializations. This history is often overlooked in the current discussions about IP, trade, and economic competition.

alkevarsky

Most American manufacturing jobs were killed by automation. They are not coming back. Plus I have no desire to pay 3-5x price, just so that someone could be subsidized to make something in US. Crack down on the Chinese stealing US IP, fine. Protect the patents. But if someone cannot have competitive manufacturing in the US with these protections, it is their problem.

JOAEPB

China builds its companies with the stolen IP from US companies that’s the issue no one is talking about

pornographic_realism

Acting like the US hasn't been profoundly ruining copyright and IP law for decades at the behest of their business partners.

Apprehensive_Bit2685

They are shielding their public from the majority of everything. Take X for example, they post shit thats supposed to be dunking on America like their high speed rail shit and X is banned in China so clearly it’s only meant for us to see. Clearly designed as propaganda, especially since their high speed rail system is stolen IP from Japan, and since they couldn’t figure out the wheel design, are known to have very shaky train rides and can’t go near top speed

Yawning_Creep

If 18A is all it's supposed to be.. it's possible for intel to recover as it is by far the most innovative process out there that is nearing HVM. Personally I don't work on 18A but I know quite a few people that do. Obviously transistor performance and yield data is super high IP so I won't comment on that. I've seen so much go wrong in the last 10 years that I'm pessimistic but hanging on and from later in the year I'll be heading to the fab 4/5 days per week for no apparent reason ( if I don't get fired in the next QTR).

Mofo_mango

>because of the IP theft that’s been prevalent over the years. At least be honest and just say you don’t like China.

floo82

Bot from gyina... IP bans when?

Always_find_a_way24

The U.S. consumer represents 1/3 of all global exports purchased. At least be honest and just say you don’t like the U.S.. You are doing no one any favors by pretending what’s going on isn’t crucial to global economies. To be sure, the U.S will be hurt also. But acting like the U.S. is just going to fail while the world moves on is absurd lacks a serious understanding of the situation. On the flip side Trump can’t just redesign the U.S. economy before the next congressional election. That’s absurd as well. The U.S. probably should be less reliant on imports in areas of pharmaceuticals and other strategically important things. This could be said for several western nations. But who gives a crap where the T.V. gets made. It would be better to lessen dependence on China specifically because of the IP theft that’s been prevalent over the years. But acting like we’re just going to cut ties is stupid and bad for both countries.

StochasticDecay

IP theft. They’ve stolen IP from hundreds if not thousands of businesses and then effectively run them out of business. We, and the rest of the world, should put pressure on this to universally abide by IP laws.

rithsleeper

My perspective is the framing of this statement is really wrong. It’s going to be more about a level playing field. Listening to Chamath and Kevin O’Leary seems to clarify things. It’s more about the fact our American companies can’t do business fairly in china (or other countries). I’m convinced this is less about other countries and just about china. We can’t litigate stolen IP, china has massive tariffs on a lot of our goods, they require a lot of times for our businesses that do do business in china to have a Chinese partner that owns majority share, etc. if we are truly a partner why is china putting their finger (more like hand) on the scale. This really put a lot of perspective in layman’s terms. Also from a super successful businessman who understands the system. https://youtu.be/EmDt_zAlL8E?si=tIqUcWK2HlDNz6fl

Europefan02

You’re okay with China stealing IP from US companies? The company I work for sued a Chinese company for IP theft and won $$$$.

AppMtb

Trade deficits in goods do hurt. Manufacturing has the best knock on economic benefits over services/tech (ie $1 in manufactured goods added additional X amount in additional manufacturing/servicesThere’s a reason China is aggressively chasing some of the last few industries they don’t dominate like airframe/ gas turbine manufacturing and semiconductor using corporate espionage and IP theft, and it ain’t because they want to be a good trading partner

Europefan02

Trade with China is not an equal terms as they manipulate their currency, steal IP, etc..

JIMMY_RUSTLING_9000

Describe how IP theft has made your life worse in detail

jredful

Japan at some point is going to turn the corner on their demographic crunch. Plus they are a global leader in automation because of their demographic crunch and many nations will need to lean on them for that IP for their own upcoming demographic crunch. Also, Japan lined itself originally in the first Trump administration to be a key ally going forward. It would have made sense to assume they would have been safer than most countries.

rithsleeper

Did you live through covid?! What about all the IP they constantly steal? That’s pretty much chinas go to move is lying. They don’t even deny it either, it’s just “the way it is”.

elite_haxor1337

Oh man. I'm prob the worst person to ask cuz I just think we're all fucked at this point. I think we've all heard the story of an innovative American company getting bought by private equity and gutted. I've worked for two. Actually, the word "gutted" doesn't even begin to describe it. One single person gets "wealthy" and the IP is gone forever.

aristo87

That's great in peacetime and when your strategic partner is a trusted ally. GL with your IP and software when the shells start dropping.

Accomplished-Pace207

They didn't stole. They require the IP if companies want to use China's labour force. And the companies willingly accepted. The reporter is right. This is not stealth, it's just business.

MudKing1234

I read a paper from the Obama administration that said China was suppose to be our manual labor and we were suppose to be the intellectual property holder and inventor. But that relationship didn’t really work because China stole all the IP

AccountantDirect9470

For sure. China wipes its ass with IP laws. Among other things. The problem with Trump’s strategy, is that it is ill advised. It is invading Russia in the spring thinking it will be over before winter. Trump is also tariffing everyone, which now started people not valuing the trade with America. America got its status, not by being the strongest military, but by how it used that military. The relative peace solidified its standing and earned trust. That trust made America the center of the economic world. So Trump has turned people away from America and has strengthened China’s standing. 400 million people, 99% of them making less money, their dollar going shorter, paying more for products than other nations, does not complete with the 7 plus billion person market remaining.

ImplementEvening1068

here is a hint 104% tariffs on China are not enough. I'm advocating 400%. I do business with China. They don't play by the rules. They've been in the WTO for decades. They have never abided by any of the rules they agreed to when they came in for decades. They cheat, they steal, they steal IP. I can't litigate in their courts. They take product, technology, they steal it, they manufacture it and sell it back here. Nobody has taken on China yet, not the Europeans, no administration for decades. As someone who actually does business there, I've had enough. I speak for millions of Americans who have IP that have been stolen by the Chinese. 400% tariffs tomorrow morning!

Dorgamund

Nah. There are a myriad of reasons to invade Taiwan if you think about it. Economic, Political, and Military. From an economic standpoint, you have the chips. Sure, hard power invasion will see it destroyed, likely by Taiwan itself. But consider, that is not a bad thing. The Taiwanese chips are under the thumb of the US, who is already using political power to deny China access to the best quality chips. Seeing TSMC destroyed could very well level the playing field, since neither China nor the US have the greatest chipmaking skill or capacity. The US has the IP, China has the production, and China might be willing to gamble that it can peel away enough Taiwanese engineers to boost it's capacity, so it can make enough chips to undercut the US, and then can deny access rather than the other way around. Politically of course, Taiwan is an ongoing thorn in the side of China. It is in fact, very much like Cuba is to the US, with the added dynamic that it was taken over by the other side in their civil war. The US still has a deeply irrational hatred for Cuba, and punishes them to this day, and gets internal political unity by appeasing the Cuban bloc in Florida for it's troubles. Retaking Taiwan can be a very useful goal. And most importantly, militarily, Taiwan is deeply important to the region. In US, and US ally hands, it is an unsinkable aircraft carrier, and a dagger pointed at the throat of all of China's most populous cities. And it serves as a powerful naval base to keep China in check, and support logistics for the US if things go that way. In Chinese hands though, the dagger is removed, and that naval logistics allows them to project power much further into the Pacific, which was historically the domain of the US for some time now. I need you to understand that if you were Xi Jinping, you would be stupid to not want Taiwan. And depending on how various circumstances involving economics and chips supply, internal strife, and military capability change, the value of hard power versus soft power will fluctuate, and an invasion may at some points be preferable to a soft takeover.

Prudent-Landscape-70

Then long term it doesn't matter. They won't be able to steal as much IP either. I never saw the point in trading with China in the first place. They've been clear they're the enemy of the US and all that trade has done is feed their war machine.

monti1979

Uhhh… I was referring to the trade deficit, which happened well before Biden was president and was caused by US companies actively moving manufacturing from the US to China training the Chinese with their IP. That is why we buy so much from China. 100% the fault of American corporations and the American public that demanded dirt cheap products.

SilentBeetle

On top of being absolute shit heads when it comes to IP theft and basically declaring the South China Sea is theirs. Going as far as ramming boats in the region and using water cannons on fishing vessels.

careyectr

Actually, it is how it works—at least partially. Multinational corporations like PepsiCo have historically used strategies like ‘transfer pricing’ and ‘intellectual property licensing’ to shift profits to low-tax jurisdictions like Ireland. By assigning IP rights or syrup production to an Irish subsidiary, they can charge the U.S. entity inflated prices, effectively moving profits overseas and reducing their U.S. tax liability. It’s not about where the syrup is physically made—it’s about where the profits are booked. If you’re going to laugh, at least learn how corporate tax arbitrage actually works.

transient_eternity

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.

Zealousideal_Look275

We produce dollars/financing, IP and services. 

xXImSoUniqueXx

> China has won, the question is, if we actually vote Republicans out of the house and senate in 2 years, will China talk again? Why would they come to us to “talk again”? We’re entirely dependent on China. It’s us who will have to go to them from a place of weakness to talk terms. As you already put it, China won and Americans are celebrating. Which means the working class will continue having their wages suppressed for profit as we’re forced to compete with cheap Chinese labor. We will be dependent on china for strategic resources, which they will cut off when they invade Taiwan. China will continue stealing American IP, and so on.

friendly_gentleman

Can you help me understand why you feel this way? China has openly said they're challenging us for global hegemony. Why would we want to give this up? Our pension funds fund their companies (who don't comply with GAAP or any of our rules), we buy their products, we let them steal our IP, we ignore their corporate espionage. China's wealth was transferred from the American middle class. I don't know if you agree but I feel blessed to be American and I love this country, it's people, and our allies. Because of this country I feel like I have struggled little. My bounty and blessings are enormous. I'm more than willing to break my back, literally or figuratively, to ensure my children's children enjoy Pax Americana as well. Part of ensuring would seem to be to curb the rise of China. The common response seems to be "well yeah but we should do it differently!". Okay, how? China walks all over us and people like you take it like a bitch.

AvariceAndApocalypse

The way the US is going about this is giving power to China. We were the adults in the room who played by the rules while China stole IP and jobs from other countries. Now, China will be seen as the world economic leader as it has a perceived less political risk, and it does what it can to increase trade (of course to its own benefit but usually mutually beneficial) rather than stunt it.

pseudonym-161

Sounds like America needs to do better at protecting its IP.

ezlook7

China not caring about IP or trademarks, is what’s killing American businesses. Any product that sells, they rip off then flood our market with.

getpesty

Hold your ground trump! This is why we elected you, things will get worse before they get better. That’s a negation tactic by target. Nice try comrade. The Chinese have manipulated their currency and stolen our IP for decades we need Tj reign them in. So many small businesses have failed.