VISA

Entropista

Jack said that 100 dollars sent to a merchant was 100 dollar recived and he compared this to VISA/MC where 100 dollars sent was recived as 97.5 dollars. Here: https://youtu.be/dD2-T7TX2rk?t=1353 That to me was dishonest of Jack.

Entropista

\#1 *"Alice is debited $100 from her bank account"* \- Yes you are correct there \#2 *"$100 worth of Bitcoin is bought, then sent over EU over lightning network."* \- No, its not "bought" as I understand it. It´s "converted" to Bitcoin by Strike partners (NYDIG and/or other partner) \#3 "*$100 worth of Bitcoin is bought, then sent over EU over lightning network."* No, it is not "sold", it is "converted" back to fiat by Strike partners (NYDIG and/or other partner) in that country. You can see Ross Stevens (CEO of NYDIG) explaining some of the parts of it here: [https://youtu.be/B2I0FB2Wn50?t=2605](https://youtu.be/B2I0FB2Wn50?t=2605) As mentioned above by somebody. Transfers between banks are slow (takes up to 5 days). By using Lightning you do not have to transfer between banks. I am not sure, but for this to work I guess NYDIG has to have account in a bank in each supported country and that the Strike users credited fiat will have that in the same bank as the NYDIG (or what partner is used) has in that country. Does this make sense? I am just thinking out loud how the mechanics has to be... \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* A bit of topic: When you pay a merchent with Strike, it is not "for free" as Mallers have stated on Bitcoin Conferences. Its "free" for the user, but the merchant has to pay 1% fee (a fee that the users will pay for by higher prices on goods). It is still better than VISA/AMEX/MasterCard since their fees are 1.5% to 3.5% (or even higher?).

jarikuusisto

VISA and Mastercard just work. Bitcoin does not.

klanh

They don't want to cover anything, what the hell are you people snorting to think this way? What VISA wants is to accept profit few % every time someone wants to the convenience of paying for gas in non-native coin. Meaning they are going to essentially buy your stablecoins at a favorable rate. It's not charity, it's a business, and if you think about it it's a business that's very similar to what VISA does in the world of fiat currencies. Taking a cut for convenience.

alwayswatchyoursix

What if this allows them to create a way for merchants to accept tokens as payment? For example, VISA starts issuing wallets/cards of some kind that customers can tie to a regular wallet or load with tokens somehow. When you use it at a merchant who is signed up for whatever service VISA offers, you pay with whatever tokens you have. The VISA system then has VISA paying the gas fees for the transaction. And VISA makes money off of it like they normally do, by charging the merchant fees. Just spitballing here, but that's kinda what it sounds like it is headed towards. Obviously this is just a rough idea and somewhere at VISA is a file with far more details than I can come up with.

Electrical_Potato_21

What VISA is doing is very exciting. For crypto payments to become mainstream it needs to be super simple to use, and have no added fees for the end user. Normal people don't care about decentralisation, they just want to buy their goods easy and cheap.

bemyking

Hope VISA and MasterCard do more to bring this!

Particular_Put5007

Exactly VISA doesn’t need blockchain for this, they have everything in their control and they won’t let that go

Killertimme

Why would VISA do that though?

OsChMoScH

If they don't have their own wallets and use VISA, it will be pretty much useless. You don't need a blockchain for that.

igadjeed

> why they can still use VISA You'll notice the Visa transactions are outside Australia

chance_waters

I donno man, in some other countries where this has happened they never scored a new partner. I'd love to know why, and also why they can still use VISA

CointestMod

#Nano Pro-Arguments Below is a Nano pro-argument written by Shippior. > Nano, which has recently adjusted its ticker to XNO is a DAG based, fee-less blockchain. > > Some fun facts that do not have to do anything with being a pro-argument: > > * Nano has been 100% distributed using faucets. Some follow-up facts about the faucet can be found in this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/nanocurrency/comments/h7fmge/the_nano_faucet_distribution_visualized_and/) > * Nano used to be called Raiblocks. [Rai stones](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones) were very large boulders used by the Yap inhabitants in Micronesia as a currency. The stones could not be physically moved but they changed ownership in exchange for goods. By mutual agreement the ownership of a stone was decided. > * The distribution of nano was supposedly 400 million. However after distributing 133 million the faucet failed and this amount was now the market cap. The [logo of nano](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Nano_logo.png) reminds of this market cap as it consists of 1 dot, 3 dots, 3 dots. > > The big advantage of Nano is that it is fee-less. Every transaction on the blockchain is transferred for 0 XNO. Therefore the crypto is ideal for micro-payments, whereas for many blockchain these kind of transactions are very costly due to the transaction fee that is required for sending these amounts is greater than the micro payment. Therefore it is the ideal candidate for use for in-game purchases, paying for ad removal online or simply paying back that round of beers your friend got at the bar. > > Inherent at having zero fees is the issue that the people that secure the network do not get a financial incentive as there are no mining or staking rewards for validators. The idea for Nano is that running a node in the long term will save a validator costs instead of earning rewards. As the transactions are free the only cost for receiving transactions is running a validator node. With enough scale the saved costs of not having to pay VISA will outnumber the costs of running a node. > > With V23.0 having been released lately the Nano Development Foundation (which did receive any portion at the fair launch of XNO, contrary to many projects where the team receives up to 50% of all coins) has been focusing on both V24.0 which will provide a permanent solution for the spam attacks that the network endured early 2021 but also start a marketing campaign for the adoption of Nano. The team said that they will only start to market the product once they think it is (close to) finished. > > This marketing campaign has already provided several interesting results. First of all it has been adopted by 2miners. 2miners allows their participants to pay-out their mining rewards from mining ETH in nano, thereby by-passing the high ETH gas fees. > > Nex to that they have anounced a partnership with [FlowHub](https://twitter.com/nano/status/1460650892194160650). FlowHub is said to look into using Nano within their supply chains to save on expenditures. Also Kappture, which provides point of sale devices, has proofed to be interested in [nano](https://twitter.com/Kappture1/status/1473969560294416386). The in-game micropayments that I have mentioned before in this post are also currently investigated by [Poki](https://twitter.com/nano/status/1409509248971726860) a platform used by 30 million users. > > So all in all it seems like nano is finally being used for what it was meant to be and many more people are seeing it's strenghts. Now all nano needs is a Coinbase listing... ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Nano) to find submissions for other topics.

Johnny_SkullTek

I've literally spent a few years relying on it day-to-day at this point. Not day-trading to turn a profit- but doing things like spend and replace with BTC (usually going through a crypto debit VISA card to let me pay anywhere). Or doing things like locking crypto is as collateral to smart contracts to borrow USDC I can use for investments. For an experimental year or so, I took all income as crypto, then used DeFi to borrow stablecoins against the value to cover all my bills, business, and living expenses (usually spending those stablecoins with crypto debit cards that offered cyrpto cashback). At the peak of things, you could borrow USDC at under 3% APR, then spend the USDC via a Coinbase + Crypto.com debit card for something like a combined 7% instant cashback in crypto.

CointestMod

#Nano Pro-Arguments Below is a Nano pro-argument written by Shippior. > Nano, which has recently adjusted its ticker to XNO is a DAG based, fee-less blockchain. > > Some fun facts that do not have to do anything with being a pro-argument: > > * Nano has been 100% distributed using faucets. Some follow-up facts about the faucet can be found in this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/nanocurrency/comments/h7fmge/the_nano_faucet_distribution_visualized_and/) > * Nano used to be called Raiblocks. [Rai stones](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones) were very large boulders used by the Yap inhabitants in Micronesia as a currency. The stones could not be physically moved but they changed ownership in exchange for goods. By mutual agreement the ownership of a stone was decided. > * The distribution of nano was supposedly 400 million. However after distributing 133 million the faucet failed and this amount was now the market cap. The [logo of nano](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Nano_logo.png) reminds of this market cap as it consists of 1 dot, 3 dots, 3 dots. > > The big advantage of Nano is that it is fee-less. Every transaction on the blockchain is transferred for 0 XNO. Therefore the crypto is ideal for micro-payments, whereas for many blockchain these kind of transactions are very costly due to the transaction fee that is required for sending these amounts is greater than the micro payment. Therefore it is the ideal candidate for use for in-game purchases, paying for ad removal online or simply paying back that round of beers your friend got at the bar. > > Inherent at having zero fees is the issue that the people that secure the network do not get a financial incentive as there are no mining or staking rewards for validators. The idea for Nano is that running a node in the long term will save a validator costs instead of earning rewards. As the transactions are free the only cost for receiving transactions is running a validator node. With enough scale the saved costs of not having to pay VISA will outnumber the costs of running a node. > > With V23.0 having been released lately the Nano Development Foundation (which did receive any portion at the fair launch of XNO, contrary to many projects where the team receives up to 50% of all coins) has been focusing on both V24.0 which will provide a permanent solution for the spam attacks that the network endured early 2021 but also start a marketing campaign for the adoption of Nano. The team said that they will only start to market the product once they think it is (close to) finished. > > This marketing campaign has already provided several interesting results. First of all it has been adopted by 2miners. 2miners allows their participants to pay-out their mining rewards from mining ETH in nano, thereby by-passing the high ETH gas fees. > > Nex to that they have anounced a partnership with [FlowHub](https://twitter.com/nano/status/1460650892194160650). FlowHub is said to look into using Nano within their supply chains to save on expenditures. Also Kappture, which provides point of sale devices, has proofed to be interested in [nano](https://twitter.com/Kappture1/status/1473969560294416386). The in-game micropayments that I have mentioned before in this post are also currently investigated by [Poki](https://twitter.com/nano/status/1409509248971726860) a platform used by 30 million users. > > So all in all it seems like nano is finally being used for what it was meant to be and many more people are seeing it's strenghts. Now all nano needs is a Coinbase listing... ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Nano) to find submissions for other topics.

Andrew5329

> Wtf are they gonna get from asking that question? Mostly, a chance to tell you that the IRS does not accept payment of back taxes in the form of VISA prepaid gift cards. Most scam victims are too obstinate to see common sense, but at least then the bank can point and say they told you so.

shadowmage666

Mass adoption is when people are using crypto and don’t know they are using it, like gift cards they buy at CVS that run on a blockchain for example. The customer buys a gift card, merchant loads a value, they give it as a gift. Recipient uses it to pay for something. Let’s say it runs on Ampera for example. They have no clue that the database behind it is ETH and not like posgreSQL or some older DB tech. That consumer doesn’t care to know how VISA works for example, they just want to use it. That will be cryptos mass adoption

rankinrez

Nobody said the internet sucked back then. People thought it was amazing we could send files and emails around the world. Yes it was slow; but we’d nothing to compare it to! Bitcoin, LN etc are trying to enter an existing, mature market (currency/payments). People can already buy things instantly with digital cash via contactless, or online through VISA etc. Given those exist and everyone already uses them it’s hard to think folks will switch. It’s like if you had todays broadband; then came along offering a “dial-up” like experience and expected people to switch cos the “kinks will be ironed out one day”. At the very least they’re gonna wait till you pull that off and not switch now.

HaveRewengey

Binance are looking at enabling LN for their exchange, and I think others will follow suit. LN will become the transactions network to allow BTC to scale, and BTC will only be used to transact huge amounts that require that extra security. Much like the current system works - VISA vs Bank Settlements.

Iksf

If bitcoin cant handle some shitcoiners how is it supposed to displace VISA?

Giga79

>I am a very big proponent of using BTC as an actual standard and hoping the community will build more projects as forks https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/charts/pools I think forking Bitcoin is a bad idea, I called it *suicide* earlier. Any new POW blockchain shouldn't be mined using ASICs if you want it to be 'for the people'. Your average person doesn't have access to $10,000+ specialized hardware (that becomes almost immediately obsolete). https://www.bitmainshop.net/antminer-s19xp-hyd-255th.html This ASIC is $12,000 and can mint about $6,000 of BTC a year (assuming very cheap electricity and using today's price). It is the most profitable ASIC on the market today. Most of these are running to secure BTC right now. Because ASICs are specialized an RTX 3080 GPU everyday people *might* have laying around can only mint about $180 a year of BTC. 12 everyday people with $12K invested in GPUs will mint >$2000 for every $6000 a rich ASIC owner is able to mint of this 'for the people' coin. An even richer miner pays wholesale electric costs (or *owns* the energy source), gets first production on ASICs before difficulty adjustments, and some are receiving carbon rebates allowing them to operate at a loss longer. All this making you with your *1* $12K ASIC much less competetive. --- The issue with this is always going to be profitability. That incentive is what has people spend massive amounts of fiat to secure POW blockchains. BTC mints 900 BTC each day, @$30,000 that's $30M created and sold every day. People are incentivized to spend *up to* $30M doing *whatever* for that fresh mint. Following from this to control 51% of the network would cost no more than $15M per day. It doesn't matter *what* the POW is, only how profitable it is. Everybody can *buy their way* into POW. If your new network's incentive is $200 it will cost $101 to control. If you're spending 0.9 BTC for every 1 BTC you mint then you are in business mining, this is what you do. The issue here is if a new network pops up or a new opportunity that becomes more profitable to do than minting BTC - using the same hardware. If you can spend 0.9 BTC and generate 1.1 BTC by first shorting then erasing an entire new blockchains history, this is what you do instead - then you go back to mining BTC. This is what happened to Bitcoin SV, or to any of the others that had some value to extract. When you use your new SHA256 blockchain you have this hanging over your head always. POW is never 100% finalized, it is only ever probabilistic. Someone can always broadcast a chain that's 20 blocks longer than yours but that also reorgs or erases the previous 50 blocks. When you use Bitcoin you don't consider a transaction '*probably* good' until 6 confirmations, after 1 full hour. Ravencoin transactions *probably* can't be erased after 9 1/2 days and this after the huge migration from ETH miners. If the profitability incentives change for any reason these probabilities can change dramatically. Someone could pay BTC pools in BTC for every fork they attack, motivating people to move from EGcoin and into this malicious BTC pool for faster ROI. It just so happens that Bitcoin is the most profitable SHA256 coin to mine today, by far. This means practically all available SHA256 hashrate globally is directed towards Bitcoin. *So much* that you probably can't buy your way into that much hardware. Except Bitcoin's block subsidy is temporary. It's designed to exponentially drop off to 0 and for *fees* to replace all of miners incentive, so they still spend as much fiat securing POW. This is very speculative if fees will replace 900 BTC, and in the future if there's ever a slow period in the economy or for BTC's blockspace it will mean miner incentives will be volitile, cut immediately and harshly, reducing security and making it much harder for BTC's demand to recover compared to miners working for a steady income. Miners are spending up to $27M securing Bitcoin today for a $27M reward @$30,000. Next year overnight they will be spending up to $27M for a $13.5M reward.. If Bitcoin fails to 2x in price each 4 years forever (it's not possible) then at some point the network will become *maximally saturated* with miners. There isn't enough reward for them all after a halving so a capitulation event occurs. The miner spending 0.9 BTC for every 0.5 reward will disconnect, reducing the mining difficulty and hashrate, allowing the more 'efficient' (rich) miner spending 0.5 BTC to be rewarded say 0.6 BTC under this easier difficulty. After this next halving @$30,000 BTC will be secured with *up to* $13.5M and so it will cost no more than $6.75M to 51% it, the same time there's suddenly ~$10M of hashrate that can't profit by mining BTC honestly... Bitcoin hasn't faced this issue because so far its price has doubled each halving, pushing this fringe group of now ex miners into obscurity before they're able to collude. If the price of BTC ever stays the same or doesn't *double* (even as it's going $1 trillion per coin to $2 trillion) within a 4-8 year period, it becomes exponentially easier for ex miners or ASIC shareholders to collude. Worst case over 51% of ASICs become hooked up to permissioned energy grids and overnight become hardly are or not profitable, then offered more money out of market to do something malicious using this hardware - why I hate the trend of *industrialized* mining. If it's too expensive to attack BTC today just wait 12-24 years and it will cost a fraction of a fraction. But your coin will face this issue on day1. An inefficient mining company just booted off the BTC network, or any who see an opportunity, is going to do everything they can for their ROI. Your grassroutes network may have grown to 2,000 GPU nodes (practically what ETH had) but if it is a Bitcoin fork ~300 ASICs will be able to come uninvited and immediately control 51% of the network. Your network needs to be ASIC resistant so small BTC pools aren't able to centralize and control it, but then it *can't be* a fork of BTC as long as BTC is more profitable. Any person who buys a $12,000 ASIC today with a 2 year ROI mining BTC is screwed. Next halving their ROI is suddenly ~infinite as the cost for electricity won't even cover the new block reward without some wild speculation involved. If BTC hit $50,000 they'd go from making $6,000 to $1,000 a year with 6 years to ROI not accounting for the next halving or their ASIC becoming obsolete after a couple years as new ones increase the hashrate at the same cost. These people will be coming for your network. Bitcoin POW isn't ideal. It's self centralizing. Today *2* pools control 51% of its hashrate. Each time you use the network you're trusting two entities won't do anything malicious. It's hardly trustless anymore, and the barrier of entry to mint your own BTC now is so extreme. It made much more sense when anyone with energy was able to mint this new currency. --- I think a better approach would be using Bitcoin as a settlement layer for other valuable networks. Nothing like Lightning Network, more like the Rollups/L2 Ethereum roadmap. Bitcoin blockspace is so ludicrously secure (absolutely most secure network in the world) that it makes no sense to use it to transact our low value on. It could instead be used to authenticate VISA's ledger with or Apple's store or *something* that's today reliant on government and broken banking systems to operate. All of these entities pay massive sums for a fraction of the security Bitcoin has, in an ideal world they could they pay miners a smaller sum for the increased security they offer and as users we'd inherit all of BTCs trust assumptions across all these networks. Even better if instead of having 10,000+ new L1s emerge to fulfill every possible use case, if Bitcoin's base layer were fitted to secure these novel blockchains with instead. We don't need people using a blockchain that *goes offline* in 2023, or using forks that have 10 day settlement periods. If Solana were deployed *inside of* Bitcoin and it went offline people could use their vanilla Bitcoin address to move their SOL around. Any fork of BTC could inherit the same 6 conf settlement time. It would dramatically benefit the whole crypto space, and a blockchain like Solana will pay a lot more for secure blockspace than any individual benefiting BTC's very speculative endgame security model. I'm closely following progress with Zero Knowledge proofs being implemented on Bitcoin. These in theory would allow you to run a program from any another network then trustlessly execute the output on Bitcoin. This would enable the use of native $BTC on every ZK compatible network, to use BTC in any Ethereum dApp. Most BTC in circulation is wBTC iirc and that is extremely far from ideal, from a user's perspective and for the Bitcoin network (nobody's paying miners!). I imagine Bitcoin will end up with an L2/Rollup of its own some day via ZK tech. It will start to look more like Ethereum if that's the case, which may be very contentious and lead to another miner split (reducing security to now both networks), considering Ordinals are doing the same. The more seperate from the base layer, the less like the base layer a *layer* has to behave. There are L3 chains on Ethereum which have replaced the EVM with novel machines, in OP Craft they replaced it with Minecraft's *game engine* putting the physics, game assets, cloud locations, *everything* on-chain. This enabled people to build new clients with different GUI that read the same core logic, the same way there are many multiple ETH node clients, one person could be playing Minecraft and the other playing Stardew Valley but each playing in the same world together. L3s are very promising proof of concept and will do well to drive demand for secure blockspace. It could fulfill every use case a fork would but retain security, and not be in direct *competition* with Bitcoin.

PreacherCoach

Real world usage in the western world will be a huge fight as it directly challenges the inherent value of Fiat. The issue is really connecting where the real world value is and how it is superior than what is currently available, not preferable but superior. Yes security, and efficiency of moving money between parties is likely to be understood as having intrinsic value. So how does it compete with larger corporations like VISA, Swift or the existing banking system and commercial transaction system? Why should it be adopted by everyone beyond 'Inreally like it' or 'I believe in this so very much' So far, that case has not been made solidly yet. As a security there is way more promise because the wider audience -everyone not involved in crypto right now - kind of gets that. It is the Wild West right now, and that is a huge issue to growth and mainstream adoption.

sayamemangdemikian

>So i was sending some bitcoin and fee was 7$, much higher than the usual 1$, i set the fee to 3$, and thought it’d be fine. Its been multiple days now,and it hasn’t transferred. You should never set lower than the suggested. >And looking at the bitcoin average fee now, its upwards in about 30$ which is insane >I heard that there’s something going on right now thats taking up all the network thus causing the very high average fees. Yea, they are experimenting (not sure if this the right word) to add somekind of L2, nft on top of bitcoin. It will be normalized soon, cos of the high fees. But lets see. >I was wondering though, if you all want crypto to become the standard currency worldwide as the dominating one, then how will all the traffic that that would bring not cause the same, or worse network traffic of now and cause insanely high fees that will end up making it worse than normal currency? You are talking about reserve currency. You see, USD is world reserve currency right now, but it doesnt mean for day-to-day tx in kenya, dubai, jakarta they gonna use USD. They will still use local. And do you know how much "fee" I need to pay to use USD outside US? Huge (The fee is conversion rate btw) Btw, you know VISA has fees too, right? But USD is still reserve currency worldwide despite the high cost to use it, because it is strong in maintaining it's value. Backed by a superpower country. >Also i know there are cryptos with no fees and are near instant, but why didn’t those become the norm / most popular and instead bitcoin is? decentralization. Which leads to ultimate security and freedom. - security, i can be sure that if I hold USD1billion in BTC, it will stay there. No one can hack the system for the last 15 yrs. (They can still hack your pc though, educate yourself on hardware wallet.) -- a rough agent need to control 51% of nodes.. this so almost impossible since btc is very decentralized and getting harder everyday - freedom: more and more people/business accept btc. And basically you can easily convert btc-fiat. For corporations & countries this is big thing too: Russia is being sanctioned and basically stopped doing business with USD. So what would they use to do business with india? Ruble? India doent want it. Rupee? Russia doesnt want it. Gold? who gonna store it? (They cant use bank of london/ swiss/ the fed due to sanction). Bitcoin? Yup. Everyone fine with it. And not just russia. African / asian / south american countries also took notes that your access to USD can be blocked at anytime. --- Tldr: if you hold a huge amount, you can tolerate "high fees", but you can not tolerate security. BTC is the main choice (then ETH)

DerpJungler

Wasn't my first but I can relate. Their staked VISA cards were too good to be true...

NickDerpkins

Everything aside, ETH as a tender basically just had 74% of the costs go towards movement for a transaction. That is the unattractive part. People can buy what they want but having to (more so choosing to but still) pay 74% in gas fees for the 2nd biggest crypto. If VISA charged 7.4%, one tenth of that dumb transaction, for certain purposes we would lose our fucking minds.

PenaltyFickle5699

Yeah, I'm sure the banks are kicking themselves for not adopting crypto sooner. I know i am. But crypto has indeed evolved a lot. We got major banks, VISA, Paypal, lots og big names stepping in.

Giga79

>It looks like yet another payment system like AMEX/VISA/MASTERCARD with an alien currency. I like the idea, but: > >1. What are the incentives for sellers to adopt this system? AMEX/VISA/MasterCard charge merchants ~2% + $0.10 for every sale. Their fee could be >$0.10 by using public blockchain infrastructure instead. Merchants pass this cost onto consumers, so a seller accepting crypto is able to offer discounts and be more competetive, or keep the extra profit. It depends on how much money avoiding the middle man saves. Some middle men do nothing and charge a lot, some do a lot and charge nothing. I feel like credit card merchants offer a lot as middlemen by offering insurance and strong consumer protection. PayPal on the other hand has very dismal (merchant) protection and extremely high fees, it could easily be replaced by blockchain infrastructure. >2. The selling portion is decentralized. Yet questions remain. Besides face-to-face trading, can you trust a decentralized retailing website(which you have no idea who is responsible and where) to sell products? They may very much likely eat away your money and walk away or simply give you fake products. Consumer protection is hugely needed in the digital space. I don't think I would blindly send a one-way payment for something I couldn't afford to lose.. VISA/MASTERCARD are both working on integrating blockchain (Ethereum) infrastructure into their own systems now, probably AMEX as well. They say it's cheaper than their old infrastructure, so they're doing it to save themselves money and to be more competetive. Visa is building quite a lot on Ethereum as a result. Tools no one has made before that Visa will need to run their network, like [reoccurring on-chain payments for bills](https://usa.visa.com/solutions/crypto/auto-payments-for-self-custodial-wallets.html), or full account abstraction ie managing your decentralized Ethereum wallet from your Visa account. As Ethereum goes through its next scaling upgrade by the end of the Summer these tools should be ready for release, as their cost to execute will be reduced some 100x from today (from $0.10+ to $0.001+) These credit merchants are using blockchain to eliminate *their* middle man fees, saving us money. This also enabling simple crypto payments to sellers already hooked into VISA/MC's infrastructure. Soon consumers will have a choice to pay using their crypto wallet, pay in crypto/credit +2% for VISA insurance, or pay through bank or cash. In a lot of instances I'd opt to go through VISA for their consumer protection, but for a coffee or anything not substantial I'd rather save *my* money and take the risk my coffee doesn't arrive. If I'm at a garage sale or farmers market or the digital equivilant they aren't going to accept VISA or debit so crypto will still be used for realworld payments here and there. In those instances the seller can know immediately if they received a counterfeit so they have strong protection (so are more willing to accept crypto for payment) even if the buyer may not have protection in this instance. I'm not sure there's a way to build a decentralized or trustless system that you need to be able to *call someone* for a refund occasionally. Visa using blockchain to reduce their costs seems like a good middle ground to be in for the current state of the tech.

zjplab

It looks like yet another payment system like AMEX/VISA/MASTERCARD with an alien currency. I like the idea, but: 1. What are the incentives for sellers to adopt this system? 2. The selling portion is decentralized. Yet questions remain. Besides face-to-face trading, can you trust a decentralized retailing website(which you have no idea who is responsible and where) to sell products? They may very much likely eat away your money and walk away or simply give you fake products.

Puzzleheaded-Bed155

Anyone else having this issue with their Chase bank account and Crypto.com? My VISA debit works perfectly fine for buying, but I simply cannot withdraw. It's maddening. My ACH withdrawal has been rejected twice and it's barely $200.00. I just want my money and to close my account. How the hell am I to ever get that money out if I keep on getting rejected?

mnkbstard

CB support is fucked up in my experience. i hope i'll never need to contact them on some serious issue. when i tried to get their VISA card in 2021 something on their side went wrong. after more than a year and occasional mails with different agents and support tiers i finally gave up until they completely revamped card infrastructure at the end of 2022 and i was able to order one in 5mins. also contacted them a couple of months ago for an arbitrum deposit not showing up, it ended up in a useless 6hrs mail session while on nightshift at work because they weren't even aware of deposit issues on Arbitrum network. i noticed it on status page during mail exchange and asked to close the ticket. a day later they were still sending mails asking about the case

Golgoin

I mean, of course everything was a bit in chaos after the layoffs in june for a couple of month, but they've really got back on track after that and are doing very good work lately. Getting more and more licences across europe, launching new regulated products (leverage for example), new white-label-partners like N26, Mambu and now VISA to offer their solutions to the industry.

Goldbaerig

Sure, adoption for payments is already happening with VISA, Mastercard, PayPal and Venmo We are still early and it takes time - the blockchains aren't highly specialized at this point.

rainforestguru

They're probably also trying to integrate a stable coin like VISA is.

mnkbstard

i just read a couple of months old letter from an accounting studio that supposedly verified balance reconciliation of token pool and development fund related to a cryptocurrency rewards program / VISA card. this letter has an handwritten signature "*accounting studio name* professional services LLP". i'd expect the see name of the head accountant or person in charge, and not the whole studio name as a signature. this kind of stuff that can be found around some projects minting their cryptocurrency tokens is hilarious.

GenghisBanned

> Bitcoin failed as a peer-to-peer currency due to massive price volatility, high transaction fees, slow transaction times and the fact that people want to HODL it (Gresham's Law). None of those are true. If btc is 0.1% of your revenue volatility will only affect that 0.1%. Transactions fees and times are solved on L2 orders of magnitude efficiently that VISA. Even on L1 for an international shipping that takes days a 10 minutes confirmation is nothing. It hasn't succeeded yet because of the dollar's network effect. Number of hodlers is ATH, hashrate is ATH, price is almost ATH. The next step for network growth is ACTUAL merchant adoption. Maximalists like myself are willing to spend bitcoin, but if we can't we'll just reduce our expenses and save it until we can. This is the current bottleneck.

fan_of_hakiksexydays

What's even bigger, is that there are now DEXes who let you on-ramp and off-ramp on a credit card. Which means, you can on-ramp and off-ramp with fiat, with no KYC. Because it's any card that uses the VISA network. So you can load up a prepaid card, which lets you put whatever name you want (because it can be the name of a gift recipient), and any address you want.

life762

1. Blame VISA and Mastercard. I'm surprised that Strike ate those fees for as long as they did. 2. Plaid sucks. If you have a payroll job, direct deposit might be a better alternative.

furbess

OK, that's great. But binance and most crypto cards are issued by VISA or Mastercard. The vendor isn't receiving crypto when you use it, they receive fiat which your crypto gets converted into when you use the card. Behind the scenes, VISA/Mastercard use a number of banks to actually make the payment using payment rails like SWIFT/ACH. So your point is pretty much invalid.

benmck90

Having VISA on board is such a huge win for the crypto market in general. They're probably one of the biggest players in terms of making offboarding (crypto to fiat) more accessable/easier.

Vorph36

I believe the analogy is wrong, but I can understand VISA and MC investing in crypto. There is a lot of potential on the solutions provided in the space for them to adopt, use and offer better services.

MindTheMindForMind

I agree with you, but my point is: this value made by banks infrastructure (partially true, in fact banks are at the service of providers like VISA and Mastercard) is proportional to the profit that banking system is making these days? This is the point.

MindTheMindForMind

I would say that it’s not precisely like VISA or Mastercard, but in fact MATIC is more centralized than some other projects for sure, i see MATIC like a middle way beetween centralized and decentralized.

compugasm

This is important news that the bitcoin haters need to look at. While this isn't actual bitcoin platform development, it is an access point. So while you're all shitting on how much energy bitcoin uses, just keep in mind that behind your back, VISA is onboarding people to cryptocurrency, and by extension, bitcoin.

sarfian

Even VISA who has a higher TPS than current best performing blockchains is embracing crypto. We are still in the red but I know that it is a great sign for more bigger green candles

ExtensionNoise9000

Yes I understand, but I fail to see how this is good for crypto. How it functions is that you make a payment with VISA card while holding your crypto in their custodial wallet. They make a traditional credit card transaction with the merchant and deduct crypto of the same value from your “wallet”/account. There’s no self-ownership, permissionlessness, irreversibility, decentralization etc. At that point might as well just use the credit card and avoid the crypto aspect all together.

Vorph36

Little by little but VISA doing good moves.

urbanhikers

Two years ago, VISA bought $150,000 crypto punk and it was only for corporate collection. But at that time, it triggered NFT market rush. What is VISA now up to.

Cartosys

According [to google](https://www.google.com/search?q=HOW+MUCH+ENERGY+DOES+THE+VISA+NETWORK+USE&oq=HOW+MUCH+ENERGY+DOES+THE+VISA+NETWORK+USE&aqs=chrome..69i57.5345j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8): "1 VISA transaction consumes about 1.5 Wh of electricity on average. The average energy use per Bitcoin transaction is 2258 kWh. A BTC transaction requires roughly 1.5 million times the same amount of electrical energy; enough to power a single US household for 2.5 months" ​ TL;DR Bitcoin uses stupid amounts of energy compared to ANY financial network.

thinkingperson

Yeah, I can see that happening. In fact, VISA had a recent announcement regarding eth? Anything similar for BTC yet? [https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldelcastillo/2022/12/19/visa-proposal-would-bring-ethereum-users-one-step-closer-to-being-their-own-bank/?sh=7140cb6b21b5](https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldelcastillo/2022/12/19/visa-proposal-would-bring-ethereum-users-one-step-closer-to-being-their-own-bank/?sh=7140cb6b21b5)

jesus0815

How? How exactly do you KYC my personal BlueWallet Lightning wallet? And why would anybody use Lightning when its main usecase, doing fast, small, anonymous transactions like with cash would be obsolete if he already has VISA, Mastercard, Cash App, Google Pay, Apple Pay and Paypal?

Giga79

Yes! That is the purpose of L2's, kinda, is to make L3s and L4s on. They're basically the same as Ethereum after all and that's precisely what it does.. L3s are typically called the app layer. Coinbase's new L2 *BASE* is really an L3 built on Optimism, for example. L3s are composable with all other L3s in the ecosystem and their respective L2, so it will build for a much better UX. Base will even support Solana dApps along with Ethereum, something an L2 couldn't do well. Also look into OPCraft, someone put the Minecraft game engine on their L3 in place of the Ethereum Virtual Machine. Here's what that looks like in an infograph! https://files.stlouisfed.org/files/htdocs/publications/images/uploads/2021/Sch21Q2Fig2_20210205034338.jpg Here's some further reading: https://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/review/2021/02/05/decentralized-finance-on-blockchain-and-smart-contract-based-financial-markets Application layers (L3s) will be huge. VISA is even working on their own on the Starknet L2, to replace some of their payment infrascture with and to build new utilities for us in crypto. Also since I'm replying directly, it's worth mentioning (again) in this post that L2 congestion will likely never be a concern except maybe *spam*, which we will need novel ways to deal with (or every L2 will soon look like the BSC). This is because EIP4844 aka protodanksharding aka BLOBS will allegedly increase L2 throughput from a few hundred transactions per second today to ~100,000... VISA runs their whole US network using 1500 TPS for reference. 100,000 TPS will enable all kinds of complexity never thought possible (OPcraft already wowed me).

eddi3f

I see where you’re coming from but there are many reasons why the extra on ramping fees I’ll be paying don’t bother me in the slightest. Improving bitcoins circular economy is a critical reason that I’m more than happy to pay a few extra fees for. In an ideal bitcoin word where everyone does the same then the price would be much higher and the fees get negated in the long run. In theory anyway. Due to the fees VISA and Mastercard already take from transactions. I also believe bitcoin will price everything slightly cheaper than fiat if it doesn’t do so already so again, in the long run those fees won’t ever cross my mind. I also from time to spend way more money on far worse things than small fees Coinbase, binance and Swan charge me to onboard to Bitcoin. I spent about £11 at KFC yesterday and regretted it, for example lol. We’re still very much in the bootstrapping stage of bitcoin and there is still a lot of work to do before it’s globally adopted.

Giga79

Look into smart wallets. They're smart contracts, so can be programmed in numerous ways. One way is social recovery. Social recovery wallets have a MFA that can be used to retrieve your funds, or to reset your seed phrase. Typically people will do 2/3 using two of their devices plus *customer support*, so if they lose their device they can ping for help and with support are able to reset their wallet. Some people do 5/7 using 5 devices they own and no customer support, or using family/friends as recovery agents. Technically with this setup you don't need to manage a seed phrase at all (email+password would be sufficient). With eip4337 aka account abstraction on the horizon smart wallets will be able to interact with other smart wallets in very exciting ways (your VISA account might turn into an ETH wallet some day without you knowing, eg). The tech isn't ready IMO until blockchains can scale a bit more (for Ethereum this hopefully means Q3 this year, EIP4844 will reduce L2 fees by 30-100x). It will be ready when deploying a complex wallet like this doesn't cost a lot of money.. or *today* if you don't mind the gas fees to set one up.

PositiveUse

It doesn’t matter. As soon as you want to cash out, use your crypto to pay for real stuff (which is still going through traditional finance like VISA) transactions towards „central“ entities are regulated, wallets to be KYCed and in some cases reported to state authorities. Do whatever you want on the chain, but as soon as you want to use your magic money, they want to track every step of it.

Dranzell

Then you have to pay the CEx and the gas fee. Doesn't sound too different from VISA.

Electrical_Potato_21

I think the first way we'll see it is indirectly, as tech for settlement, like what Mastercard and VISA are working on. Direct payment in crypto is a bigger question though. In the US it really depends on what happens with USD.

SCHPOOKMEISTER

You can already do this. If you have a Coinbase VISA card, you can choose Bitcoin as a funding option and spend your Bitcoin just as if it was funded with USD. There are zero fees but you still have to consider the spread.

Minimum-Cheetah

But remember it reduces the power of large financial institutions because you don’t need them to make payments on your behalf or hold deposits. As much power as the government gains from CBDS, the large financial institutions lose. I wouldn’t expect VISA/AMEX/Mastercard to go down without a serious fight. It’s not just crypto vs. CBDCs, but also other financial custodians.

Giga79

>Even in this subreddit alone this statement is very controversial. > >Who is saying that btc and eth are meant to be settlement layers? It seems like that would be in the whitepaper, if that was the case. The idea was introduced the same time ETH dropped its sharding roadmap for danksharding, when it became apparent the chain couldn't really scale for users but can for rollups. It's why the consensus layer is now seperate from the execution layer. It's not really a technological idea for the roadmap, more a natural consequence of having limited but very secure/decentralized blockspace. I think Polkadot and Cosmos are meant to function as settlement layers, too. Here's further reading into ETH's design, using the base layer for settlement (2021) - https://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/review/2021/02/05/decentralized-finance-on-blockchain-and-smart-contract-based-financial-markets https://files.stlouisfed.org/files/htdocs/publications/images/uploads/2021/Sch21Q2Fig2_20210205034338.jpg https://ethereum-magicians.org/t/a-rollup-centric-ethereum-roadmap/4698/2 >Regarding visa and Mastercard…isn’t the entire purpose of this whole scheme to have permissionless trustless and immutable finance? A major credit card company re introduces those 3 concepts. It depends on who the consumer is. In this case, VISA is a business owner using decentralized ledgers to save themselves costs - these are permissionless systems, and nobody is forced to use VISA either. They are simply a blockspace consumer like you or I. There are decentralized ways to achieve the same thing via rollups (simpme batching of tx's), but since Visa is actually doing this I thought it'd make the point clear what direction things are heading in. As a user to Visa it gives you Ethereum settlement guarantees, and total control over your finances. I'm able to take my Reddit avatar outside of Reddit and use it however I please, for example, so it benefits me as a user that Reddit deployed them on-chain the same way it will benefit me as a Visa cardholder if I can use their service on-chain. >So yeah, you have a big beautiful immutable settlement layer but globbed on top of that is permissioned trust based mutable credit card companies. It's better than having a thousand not connected and insecure new L1s that are totally centralized. If you're using a blockspace compressor/resaler/rollup and they censor you denying you settlement, since you're inside of Ethereum still you can just hire another rollup or pay for the L1 computer to get you from place to place, your assets never leave the chain - you're simply giving permission to an entity to move them, not custody them. It's the best idea after 100 failed attempts, and a lot better than Plasma chains or sharding wound have been for UX or security. The ETH thesis is basically that rollups will be the #1 blockspace consumer one day, as they're the only entity who can really pay *any* gas fee and still be in profit. It may be controversial, but so were $500 gas fees, what can one do..

Potential-Coat-7233

> BTC and ETH are meant to be settlement layers. It makes more sense for an entity like VISA to use ETH and pay the fees, to secure your transaction with 1000 others at the same time. Even in this subreddit alone this statement is very controversial. Who is saying that btc and eth are meant to be settlement layers? It seems like that would be in the whitepaper, if that was the case. Regarding visa and Mastercard…isn’t the entire purpose of this whole scheme to have permissionless trustless and immutable finance? A major credit card company re introduces those 3 concepts. So yeah, you have a big beautiful immutable settlement layer but globbed on top of that is permissioned trust based mutable credit card companies.

Giga79

BTC and ETH are meant to be *settlement layers*. It makes more sense for an entity like VISA to use ETH and pay the fees, to secure your transaction with 1000 others at the same time. Due to how finate decentralized blockspace is, it doesn't make a lot of sense for 1000 people to pay *1000x more* to secure their transactions independently, there's really no benefit if the aim is mere settlement. Reddit was able to mint 10000s of NFTs using Ethereum as a settlement layer, *without* paying for ETH gas/blockspace. They batch minted everything, and it probably saved millions of dollars compared to if they had each user mint 1:1 from Ethereum themselves. The same logic would apply to a payment-layer, fees could be batched so many ways they can effectively be abstracted away - some L2's don't even charge a gas fee today, already.

MichaelAischmann

Remind me how many % VISA, Mastercard & AMEX take from every purchase?

majorpickle01

I'm certain ETH will flip BTC but i'm not brave enough to give a timescale aha. VISA is currently already looking into using Ethereum as part of it's payment rails and [puts out reports](https://usa.visa.com/solutions/crypto.html#3) on ETH already, if you want to know which way the wind is blowing.

Aggravating_Seesaw21

The Bomb will come when we get the news: "VISA+ now add BTC, AVAX and Polygon network for your P2P transfers"

jhung713

VISA isn't operating a charity so there *must be* hidden fees somewhere

frankbalzan

VISA+ … question is who has access to this? But if a mover like VISA is implementing this, it does mean continued expansion and adopton. 😊↗️🔝

OneThatNoseOne

Yeah. In a way, the visual process of all the fees in front of you at least reminds you of the cost you are paying. With stuff like banks and credit card, for one task they just take a whole lumps sum of 3-4 sets of fees all at once and you're none the wiser. Only when you open up your account again do you see your losses. Most people don't even know their banks charge something like a 1-1.5% fee to use their credit card for any non-local transaction(including online) and another 1% charge by VISA/MC. Any easy 3% less unnoticed, plus whatever spread they make on forex rates if non-local currency.

Explodicle

If I said the Dollar VISA network, would you remind everyone that VISA is not the dollar?

FldLima

*Companies like Tesla and MicroStrategy have already invested billions of dollars in Bitcoin, while major financial institutions like JPMorgan, PayPal, VISA and Goldman Sachs are now offering crypto-related products to their clients.* Slowly, we will have more big names into the game. Crypto future looking good despite the bear market.

majorpickle01

The best real life example I can give is VISA or MASTERCARD. When you go to the shops, you use one of their cards to transfer money from your bank, to the bank of the shop owner. VISA and MASTERCARD essentially are facilitating this exchange via their payment rails, and charge a small fee for the privilege. When you go to the cryptoshop, you use your wallet and sign a transaction to send the crypto to the shops crypto wallet. Essentially, validators fill the same role as VISA and MASTERCARD - they include your requested send in a block, and you pay them for the privilege in the form of a transaction fee. This isn't a perfect analogy - there's additional rewards for the validator via issuance (basically everyone collectively pays a small fee per block via inflation) but it's pretty apt. If you like, rather than private payment rails like VISA or MASTERCARD, your blockchain is a decentralized payment rails. Staking is, depending on the protocol you are using, giving power to allow a validator to transact (ADA, DOT) or is yourself giving collateral as a security deposit to promise that you will validate honestly yourself (ETH, I believe also ADA if self staked.) It's exactly the same for non POS chains really - for example Bitcoin you need to spent money to get hash to build blocks on the chain - it's just a different consensus mechanism. The difference is because the token isn't required to be chosen to power the decentralized payment rail, it doesn't pay a native APY. SIDENOTE: Those really high yield staking services usually aren't staking, they are lending platforms. It is possible to get outsized rewards for actual staking though, if you are doing it as a service for other people and get subsidized with some rewards (see Rocket Pool Staked Eth for an example)

GodfatherOfficial

Only a matter of time before crypto transactions is 15x than VISA globally...

coinjaf

You're misunderstanding me. Pos already has competition from 50 year old tech that can do better than it and be more honest about it (imagine that... honest banks). So it being "better" than Bitcoin while ignoring Bitcoins goal means absolutely nothing > why couldn't you just use a sql database then Banks do. VISA does. Paypal does. Any sane centralized system would. > blockchain i guess A blockchain is a deliberate huge inefficiency that Bitcoin has to take to reach its goal of decentralization. Do away with that goal (with or without being honest about it) and you might as well throw away all the other required inefficiencies as well. No need anymore for p2p or mempools or fee market or all the other nonsense. It's also absolutely trivial for an SQL database to produce some hashes that chain blocks of records together. So no need to give up on that, if so desired.

coinjaf

"Confirming" in bitcoin means something completely different. Something no shitcoin nor SQL database nor VISA can ever do. So, no, it's not "better than bitcoin" at all. There is no upside between shittier than 50 year old existing tech and Bitcoin. Parrot scammers.

coinjaf

IOW it's actually extremely bad at "confirming a lot of transactions", compared to other and older centralized solutions like any random SQL database or VISA. Don't parrot scammers.

sora_imperial

It's mostly speculation, I'd guess. Most people are highly optimistic that XRP will hold against SEC. I'm a bit on the fence about them: on one hand, I haven't sold my very small XRP bag and my sorta modest XLM bag. I've always desliked XRP, because I don't really like its utility (I mean, it kinda wants to replace VISA - and that's a very tough mission to achieve, when I can settle a centralised payment in two seconds), but I actually liked XLM back in 2020. I've all my optimism and now I'm just in to see what will come of it.

Status_Floor1746

Fold actually has only operated in the US up until now and have worked with partners like VISA to do everything by the book and have protection against regulators!

Oyete

Yea, the key is the technology. If the patent ends up being registered they would need to find another way or pay, no idea. The question here is who will get there first. But I agree, both VISA and MC have the power and the resources at the moment.

Oyete

It acts like a swap, the same as Pancakeswap (for example). About the commission, I will try to explain myself but my English kinda sucks when I need to explain crypto-related stuff since it's something I don't fully dominate. They have to pay 1€. The buyer will pay the equivalent of that euro and 0,01€ + fees. The store will get 1.01€, Waynance will get 0.01€ and the other 0.01€ will go to the person that took the company to Waynance. It is a bit more expensive (or not even more expensive), but it has its advantages. The companies won't have to pay the bank for the account maintenance, and VISA/Mastercard won't be taking their cut either. Also, the commerce can decide to not earn that 0.01€. Another possibility is to give a % of the total paid amount back to the customer in a coin created for the company. The clients could stack them and pay with them the following time they visit the same store (or a store that belongs to the same company). This would help stores get clients back. Example: you go out to a pub and you have 10 beers of one 1€ each. From each beer, the client gets 0.10 BARCOIN. They would get the eleventh beer for free.

juanadov

If VISA and Mastercard pick it up as a standardised option then I can see it happening. Otherwise I’m not sure it will ever happen.

atomicdomb

In South Africa, one of the largest grocery store chains (which also stocks a lot of household products like toilet paper, cleaning supplies, general hardware etc.) accepts BTC Lightning network payments and it's beautiful! I can now pay my groceries with BTC for less fees than I pay with VISA/Mastercard. What's even better is that a lot of the time my BTC appreciates compared to our local currency (after I DCA from my salary) which means if I put BTC into my LN wallet and then pay for groceries over the course of the month I get more out of my cash then if I used the local fiat! It's sad to me that first world countries are this far behind us, we barely have electricity everywhere in the country but we still managed to have Lightning PoS lol

0xataki

This might ironically help crypto - you’re creating a faster on-ramp. Just like VISA instant transfer for Coinbase

zoomercoomer9000

The network can only handle a few transactions per second, meaning it cannot replace payment systems we use in stores. Bitcoin TPS: 4 VISA TPS: 24,000 There is a layer 2 solution to address this issue called Lightning Network, but this currently suffers with problems in liquidity and infrastructure.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Swiss startup Centi launched a stablecoin pegged to the Swiss franc on March 21. Centi Franc Stablecoin (CCHF) will be backed by a Swiss bank guarantee. The CCHF coin will serve as the basis for Centi's blockchain-based Global Payment Network. The company claims processing payment through its network is 90% cheaper than established rivals like Paypal and VISA. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*

incubus4282

**Sociologically** Crypto doesn't address the root problem about what's wrong with banking. The problem with the traditional financial system isn't the data storage solution of choice. Greedy and moral-free individuals will always find a way to cheat others and that is even more likely the case when your system has a lot of automation, anonymity, and transaction irreversibility built into it. Bank executives are seldom humanitarians, but with crypto, the majority of leaders seem to be criminal crooks; SBF, Justin Sun, Zhu Zu, Alex Machinski, John Karony, Do Kwon, etc **Technologically** More than 14 years after the bitcoin blockchain went live, all blockchains are still shit at their job of providing a safe, scallable, and decentralised transaction system. If it is not decentralised, there is no point of going with a blockchain instead of just a plain vanilla SQL database. And the blockchains that claim to be decentralised, (a) often aren't really. Bitcoin only has 5 devs that can push code to the bitcoin core code and the top 2 mining pools control >50% of the hash rate. and/or (b) then subsequently fail at scalability. Bitcoin could theoretically do 7 transactions per second while VISA does something like 7000 transactions per second already in practice.

Hofnars

It's to easy for anyone that knows any of my wallets to see what I am spending my money on. It's akin to VISA or MC making my transactions public.

Regular_Chapter_788

>Dude this was super easy and much easier than normal transaction via VISA or similar. It was a Friday evening and I guess norm VISA oversea transaction would have taken much longer. That doesn't make much sense. Unless you are the seller and want the sale to be settled, but that wouldn't have stopped a seller from shipping the item to you. Also you now have no recourse or protection in case something goes wrong and are at the mercy of the seller if item is damaged, gets lost or in a few months dies.

kirtash93

I am pretty sure that Mastercard and VISA will have a lot to propose in this topic. I believe that they will just add somehow a feature to be able to pay directly an easily with crypto in a transparent way for business. For example: A business accepts crypto BUT they only want fiat. Well, the customer will use their crypto and Mastercard or Visa in the background will convert that crypto to fiat and send it to the business. Win-win strategy. No taxes drama for the business.

sasquatchfrown

Agreed. The fact the big players like VISA and Mastercard are really looking into how this can help them in the future says a lot. Ultimately, it’s blockchain that’s important to them more than crypto. Crypto is transitory to them but blockchain tech is the golden ticket.

juanadov

For anyone not aware, Plaid are a terrible company that VISA were going to buy for over $5b but decided not to after seeing the bullshit they were pulling. They used consumers’ banking login credentials to gather and distribute detailed financial data without prior consent. So fuck Plaid anyway.

juanadov

It'll take a big change in the crypto wallet industry. Currently you need to accept 500 transactions per day to "play" Defira and Defi Kingdoms. If we can get rid of that annotyance we're already a step forward. Supposedly that's in the works with VISA so we shall soon see.

jabeleta

BTC is a peer to peer payment system, fully encrypted and transparent. nowadays when we buy something online, you pay -> banks/VISA/MASTERCARD do their things -> other receive the money. With Bitcoin we don't need banks anymore, i send you money directly and we have privacy as well because we can generate several address to receive payments within the same wallet, so nobody can track your wallet. Amazing isn't it?!

anonymouscitizen2

Competitors to VISA exist. There are independent banks. There are choices. Although our choices erode daily they still exist. A CBDC will be issued directly at the FED and with one click you can be excommunicated from the entire economy, no backups. Or you can be taxed at a higher rate due to your consumption or your money can expire. CBDC is far more dystopian than the current system allows, and if cash is taken away its game over. You will have social credit scores tied to your consumption and movement habits which will immediately impact your money. This is just the surface of what can be done.

WanderingKing

How’s that different than when the US tells VISA to not do business with as an example, marijuanna dispensaries? It seems like the US already has that control, an except for cash, cards already track where you used it, what you bought, when you bought it, ect. Not saying I agree or disagree, but it seems pikes it’s already the case

rootpl

He's just an old man yelling at the sun. Besides, we are already using FIAT in digital form, it's like he never heard about VISA or MasterCard.

Funnellboi

Absolutely not, but IMO it will become a very good alternative... Youll be able to keep your funds in wallets and have cards like VISA or Mastercard etc to just spend your crypto, people will get the option at their jobs to be paid via fiat or BTC etc... It wont ever replace the banking system IMO, but a lot of people, especially the younger generations coming through, will use it over fiat... IMO.

VeludoVeludo

Nowadays VISA is on board with crypto. Money turns all tables quickly.

3DprintRC

Bitcoin's blockchain is the base layer of the currency. You don't use the base layer for USD to buy milk and bread because the payments would take a day to go through. You use VISA or other quick and temporary solutions that are settled periodically. You can do this today in some cases with Bitcoin and payment layers, but it will be really easy when for example banks create payment layers for Bitcoin connected to cards or apps.

littlehodlboy

How many transactions do you do daily with the federal reserve? Lightning is a decentralized network. I'm not convinced that we won't need payment services like VISA in a bitcoin world, but that doesn't mean that bitcoin is any less valuable as an idea.

EvaUnit343

I never got the lightning network hype. If you are gonna do txns off the chain does that not defeat the purpose of BTC? It’s far less secure. At that point how is it any different than services like VISA/MA?

EvaUnit343

I don’t understand the lighting network hopium around BTC. You are doing things off chain might as well use a service like VISA/MA at that point. Defeats the purpose. Also at the end of the day no appreciable population is using this shit lol they are just speculating on it with fiat. And you know this.