EVM

002_timmy

* Are there any updates regarding V3 Liquidity qualifying for monthly Cone Lore drop? There's trouble with determining v3 holders across everything. If someone can figure out how to determine it and who to reward, we'd be able to continue this. * Will BitCone ever bridge to other chains to increase exposure to the broader market? (ie. projects like Midnight) Bridging cross chain can be complicated and for smaller projects I don't see the added utility. For now, we prefer to stay on EVM chains, but that doesn't mean we will always be this way. If it makes sense in the future and adds value to the project, we will explore cross chain bridges. * What things are needed for a successful CEX listing? Primarily money. However, certain exchanges give discounts if the project is popular enough and drives volume to their platform. We've been quoted prices previously anywhere from $30K to $250K, but if we pay that type of price we'd want to make sure it'd drive value for our community. Projects like Moons did not pay a single listing fee to get on MEXC, [Gate.io](https://Gate.io), [Crypto.com](https://Crypto.com), or Kraken, and if can save our treasury funds for initiatives that better help our community, that's what we will do. * Isn't r/MushroomPlanet also a partner? You're right. I missed them. They aren't on rccmarketcap yet since we just rolled it out to them. Edited the post now!

GrixM

>Ethereum’s model has a large attack surface. With Solidity it’s easier to write smart contracts but it also opens up far too much. Which is why there’s so many hacks. Solidity is not part of Ethereum. It is merely one of several programming languages that can be used to write for the EVM. In fact, that flexibility is just more evidence of its strong and decentralized foundation, you are not bound to any one method of writing dapps. It's not like Cardano is infallible there either, plenty of exploits in Cardano dapps have been found over the years. The main reason there are so much more in Ethereum is that it is a much more popular chain and thus there is more contracts with potential exploits out there, and more financial incentive for hackers to find them.

Jutin34

Yea I meant that the radix engine has a similar function as the EVM: its the execution environment of the network. I know they are very different apart from that though, which is why radix is able to bring the innovation it does to the table.

CointestMod

#Ethereum Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by excalilbug which won 1st place in the Ethereum Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > Ethereum has been one of the top coins for more than 6 years now. And there are several reasons why it’s so popular: > > ​ > > * **Reliability** > > Launched in 2016, Ethereum has been very reliable. Some networks (e.g. Solana) had more issues in single week than Ethereum in all its history. The only issues I can remember is of course the [famous hack](https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2020/09/17/the-55m-hack-that-almost-brought-ethereum-down/) (it was in the beginning of ETH) that led to the creation of ETH Classic and the network congestion in 2017 caused by… [internet cats](https://consensys.net/blog/news/the-inside-story-of-the-cryptokitties-congestion-crisis/). What else could it be, right? > > Other than that ETH remained very stable and trustworthy. It had no downtimes and new partners were joining the network which led to the next pro of Ethereum: > > ​ > > * **Adoption** > > One of the biggest advantages of Ethereum is its widespread adoption. It had the first mover advantage and it used it pretty well. Today the [Ethereum Enterprise Alliance](https://entethalliance.org/eea-members/) includes dozens of members, among them such big names as JP Morgan, Ernst & Young or Microsoft > > Every regular visitor to r/cryptocurrency is also probably aware that Reddit chose Ethereum for their community points program. Currently Moons run on one of Ethereum layer 2 protocols called Arbitrum Nova > > Also worth mentioning is the fact that the [total value locked on Ethereum network is almost 60% of all chains](https://defillama.com/chains) and almost 6 times more than its biggest competitors, Tron and Binance chains (both “just” 10%) > > ​ > > * **Advantages of PoW -> PoS transition** > > Transition from PoW to PoS of course has some disadvantages (the rich get richer) but it’s hard to deny that there are also some advantages. And probably the biggest one is the energy usage decrease. The [energy used by Ethereum is now almost 100% lower](https://blog.ethereum.org/2021/05/18/country-power-no-more) than when it was a PoW coin > > The other advantage of recent updates is the fact that ETH is now deflationary. After the implementation of EIP-1559 ETH now burns a fraction of the gas fees per transaction (so there are some positive sides to high fees too – more ETH is burned :P). [This year, in less than 3 months, more than 66,000 ETH was burned](https://finbold.com/ethereum-supply-drops-by-66000-eth-in-2023-making-it-deflationary/) > > And it’s not the end. Soon, on 12 April 2023, ETH will have another upgrade called Shanghai-Capella (Shapella). One of its improvements is [EVM Object Format](https://sensoriumxr.com/articles/375). It will separate code from data. It should make the network easier to use and it will reduce gas fees > > ​ > > * **Layer 2 solutions** > > One of the biggest problems of Ethereum are high gas fees. But thanks to a very active community and smart develoeprs this problem is circumvented. Layer 2 protocols have very low fees while utilizing the benefits of Ethereum blockchain. They decrease data traffic by redirecting it offchain > > Those layer 2 solutions are so popular that Arbitrum has 4th largest total value locked in it and Polygon and optimism are 5th and 6th respectively! ([https://defillama.com/chains](https://defillama.com/chains)) ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/100p71b/top_coins_ethereum_proarguments_january_2023/) to be taken to the original topic-thread for this argument or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Ethereum) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

GrinbeardTheCunning

the radix engine is actually not an EVM. very explicitly not. they don't have smart contracts as such, it's very different. source: I'm a software developer who learned about both that being said: building on Radix is amazing so far (just started)

Kill_It_With_Coffee

Honestly Ergo has continued to build throughout the entire bear market. Rosen Bridge has created a bridge between Ergo and Cardano and is currently in the stages of building a BTC and EVM bridge. That, alongside building an entire Defi ecosystem with solid principles, lending, mixer, NFT'S, and a good DEX, Ergo is a hard one to sleep on.

Jutin34

A grant project has recently opened from a project you probably haven't heard of yet: Radix https://www.radixdlt.com/blog/radix-booster-grants-apply-now Highly recommend checking them out. They launched smart contracts 5 months ago, and on the innovation side I've seen nothing like what they offer: They have their own version of the EVM called the Radix Engine with the concept of assets built into it. Building on radix using scrypto (smart contract language) becomes a breeze. (Ask ANY dev that has experience on evm & radix) On top of that, since the network knows what tokens are, it can give you a 100% guarantee on the output of a transaction. No more blindsigning! It packages it nicely into a overview you'd expect to see when doing transactions on web3. Below is a random recent example of what it looks like. Note: These are not specially selected tokens to be displaced so nicely. EVERY token/nft on the network gets the same treatment: https://twitter.com/tmoth36/status/1757428546430185937

bstr156

If you want full EVM-equivalence that's fast with super low tx cost, probably the Rollux rollup is the best bet. It's based on Optimism Bedrock but way cheaper. Instead of settling to the Ethereum L1 it utilizes a data availability protocol that anchors it to Bitcoin's mining network which is pretty interesting especially for those with doubts about PoS long-term security. costs like $0.00001 or something to do a DEX swap. 2 second block time. Long story short, the fees are so low because the settlement layer is merge-mined with Bitcoin (has about 60% of Bitcoin's hashrate supporting it) which enables a lot of block subsidy flexibility due to basically being zero-cost for Bitcoin miners to mine alongside BTC. As far as adoption, it's fairly new and does not have a Rollux token yet, but uses a different L1 native coin for gas. That means not much media coverage because no VCs holding a new token (crypto media is all pay-for-play). Will probably get way more exposure once a Rollux token is released, which far as I know is on the way.

adentistnamedpete

You'll get a lot of recommendations and it's going to be very challenging to sift through blockchains that are more flash than substance (or hype during this current cycle). Imo there is a ton of noise out there. I'd probably say you have 2 main things to evaluate: 1) Trifecta (speed, security, decentralization). 2) Future outlook (is the blockchain sustainable or is it in risk of being replaced/irrelevant due to competition). I'd strongly consider a lesser known but incredibly tech forward project called Syscoin. It's been around for a long time (OG in the crypto world) that has been adapting and is finally at a point where the tech is finished/usable (not a testnet). It's a pretty complex project but once you wrap your head around the benefits, it's amazing that more people don't know about it / choose to build on it. L1 layer (UTXO) merge mined with bitcoin (you're getting POW futureproofing, btc security) with L2 Rollups (EVM) with incredibly high speeds, low cost, etc. The more important part is it is absolutely futureproofed (L3, zkrollups, etc). There isn't a better modular tech project out there for the short term building AND for long term building.

josmaate

Thanks for the link, solid charting tool. For me it’s all about profit, if ethereum and the relevant EVM’s die (I doubt it) I will happily follow the money to brighter pastures. Eth mainnet is a settlement layer, unless you have insider or have a solid fund to play with. Luckily, I have both. Most people are better off using L1’s and L2’s, in which the fee issue becomes non-existent. The chain I use the most depends literally on the day, I really have no particular ‘maxi’ status, apart from an unfortunate stint on fantom where I roundtripped 6 figure returns. You should hop around the chains a bit more rather than maintaining cardano maxi status; but cardano is clearly less of a ghost chain than I originally thought. So consider my view changed.

iamjide91

Lumibit in particular is integrating Scroll's scaling solution to build a Layer 2 rollup network for Bitcoin, offering full EVM equivalence and BTC-native account abstraction. At least, that I know for sure.

QualifiedUser

Most EVM based ones are. Altcoins is a very broad term that literally applies to anything not Bitcoin. Though humorously I wonder what Bitcoin Maxis call BRC-20 tokens. But yeah most EVM based altcoins can be found on most major L2s. If it sounds confusing it is. The complexity will get better with time though.

99Beers

ETHs scaling solution is to use another blockchain. That's why I use SOL. The ETH blockchains (L1 and L2) still suffer from sequential processing of the EVM AND because of that, global fees. If BASE or ARB or OPT or <Insert Name> take off, so will the fees on chain.

robeewankenobee

The EVM received more Non VC funding , that's right ... Not narrative nor emotions, i couldn't care less if SoL makes it to the top 1 ... i won't buy it, i didn't buy BTC for that matter, but it's hilarious when you're making the claims about Cardano (or with Cardano as an example) , i'm using Cardano for a few years now, and guess what ... no down time :) , that's a hard one to overcome i see , for SoL.

Old_Dreams

Ah I see. You can’t tell the difference between trading volume and value moved onchain. Same story as always. Throw in the VC argument while the EVM ecosystem received infinitely more funding while disregarding any positive data on competing chains as ‘made up’. Narrative/emotion driven arguments as per usual. Get a messari subscription so you can actually back up your arguments and find out whats actually happening.

Dry_Advice_4963

The AggLayer tech does sounds really cool. If other EVM chains integrate the prover does that mean they would need to use Polygon's token to send transactions or is there a way for them to use their own native token?

jekpopulous2

People here really don't understand how big of a deal the new prover is... with Agglayer you'll be able to access dapps on any Polygon CDK chain (Polygon v2, zkEVM, IMX, CANTO, MANTA, etc...) without bridging or switching networks. It unites all the liquidity. Even crazier part is that any EVM chain can integrate the prover and why wouldn't they? A sidechain with 20M TVL can simply integrate the Polygon's prover and become a zk-validium with immediate access to billions in liquidity... they no longer have to convince users to bridge to their chains. Chains can use their own consensus and DA (Celestia or whatever) and remain independent while all state data is verified by L1 Ethereum. Polygon 2.0 is an absolute game changer.

CointestMod

#Polygon Pro-Arguments Below is a Polygon pro-argument written by a deleted user. > ####**High Efficiency** > > **Very Fast network** > > The main benefit of using the Polygon PoS network is that it's an Ethereum scaling solution that provides much faster and cheaper transactions. > > * **High Throughput**: Current throughput is 350 TPS for 21k gas transfers and ~150 for ERC-20 tokens. It can go faster as a [7200 TPS test with 122 validators has shown](https://cryptoslate.com/matic-testnet-just-powered-ethereum-eth-to-7200-tps-dapps-next/), but Polygon decided to keep the limit at 30M gas per block to combat spam and storage bloat. > * **Fast Block Times**: It has very-fast [2-second average block times](https://polygonscan.com/chart/blocktime). Though due to its finality being probabilistic and high chance of reorgs, you would want to wait ~32 blocks or 1 minute before assuming finality. > > **Lower Fees than L2** > > * Fees are extremely cheap, so much that [validators have been colluding to set the priority fee at 30 Gwei](https://cryptoslate.com/polygon-matic-to-raise-gas-fee-to-30-gwei-to-prevent-spam-transactions/) to combat spam ever since [Polygon co-founder Sandeep's recommendation for it in Oct 2021](https://forum.polygon.technology/t/recommended-min-gas-price-setting/7604). > * Even with the artificially-inflated fees, Polygon transfer fees still only cost $0.001 while competing L2 rollup transfer fees are usually 10x to 100x more expensive in the [$0.02 to $0.20 range](https://l2fees.info/). > * A lot of games like Decentraland and The Sandbox moved to Polygon because they are able to airdrop NFTs to thousands of players at negligible costs. > > ####**Benefits from a synergistic relationship with Ethereum** > > There is a lot of overlap between the Ethereum and Polygon communities, and they both benefit from it. > > While Polygon is technically a sidechain, it helps offload a lot of traffic off Ethereum L1 and thus helps scale it. Thus, it's filling in the same role as an L2. > > * Polygon copies a lot of Ethereum's code and updates. For example, Polygon's London update for EIP-1559 is copied from Ethereum's London update. > * Nearly any wallet that works for Ethereum also works for Polygon. > * Polygon and Ethereum both use EVM for smart contracts, so it's easy for Ethereum's large number of devs to work on Polygon. Their blockchain explorers are also almost identical, so it's easy to audit transactions between them. > * Polygon's Bor block producer layer runs a version of Geth (the Go implementation of Ethereum), so they share similar consensus clients. > * Polygon generates hundreds of thousands of dollars of transactions fees for Ethereum through [MATIC Token transfers](https://etherscan.io/token/0x7d1afa7b718fb893db30a3abc0cfc608aacfebb0), [PoS Bridge transfers](https://etherscan.io/address/0xa0c68c638235ee32657e8f720a23cec1bfc77c77), and their [Root Chain Proxy](https://etherscan.io/address/0x86e4dc95c7fbdbf52e33d563bbdb00823894c287) checkpoints every 30-45 minutes. > * Ethereum provides security for Polygon PoS through [their checkpoints](https://wiki.polygon.technology/docs/pos/heimdall/checkpoint/), which are necessary as Polygon bridge proofs. MATIC tokens are also [staked on the Ethereum network](https://wiki.polygon.technology/docs/faq/staking-faq/). > > ####**High TVL and app support** > > * **Top 10**: Polygon's TVL has declined greatly in the bear market [to $1.2B](https://defillama.com/chains), but it's still enough to hang onto its Top 10 spot. Its market cap is also still in the [top 10 at $10B](https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/polygon). > * **Many dApps** like OpenSea, AAVE, Curve, and Uniswap support Polygon. **Reddit's Collectible Avatars** launched on Polygon PoS, which gave it a lot of social media publicity. > * **CEX support**: Most of the largest CEXs like Binance, Coinbase, and Kraken now support the Polygon network for withdrawals. > * **Metaverse**: The 2 largest metaverse games, Decentraland and The Sandbox uses Polygon for their player item NFTs. > > ####**Upcoming Polygon zkEVM** > > The whole Ethereum community is very excited for zkEVMs. > > Polygon was the first to launch a [public zkEVM testnet](https://polygon.technology/blog/polygon-zkevm-public-testnet-the-next-chapter-for-ethereum) in Oct 2022. They already have a [mainnet launch date of March 27, 2023](https://polygon.technology/blog/to-ethereum-with-love-announcing-polygon-zkevm-mainnet-beta-on-march-27th), and everyone is looking forward to it. > > #####**Nakamoto Coefficient is increasing** > > Polygon has a [limit of 100 validators](https://wiki.polygon.technology/docs/maintain/validate/validator-responsibilities/). While this is still quite low, it actually has a bigger Nakamoto Coefficient than both Bitcoin and Ethereum. The more important thing is that it's increasing. Only several months ago, it only took 5 validators to reach 50% stake of the network. Now it has increased to [7 staking validators](https://polygonscan.com/stat/miner?range=14&blocktype=blocks) of MATIC. You can track the identities of the validators, and they all seem to be distinct organizations. > > This is partially thanks to how its [staking website](https://staking.polygon.technology/validators) encourages delegates to stake with smaller validators. Validators with large stakes are hidden on the website while only the smaller ones are shown. There is also a message at the top saying: "To distribute power on the network, please delegate to other top performing validators." > > ####**Great user experience** > > I personally complain a lot about Polygon's centralization and lack of transparency. But I still use Polygon PoS more than any other network. > > Ultimately what matters to me is that it is fast, cheap, has a huge amount of dApps, has good CEX adoption, and has a great blockchain explorer. And those combined lead to a great user experience. > > For new users who don't have MATIC gas tokens, there is a [Polygon Wallet Suite](https://wallet.polygon.technology/polygon/gas-swap) where you can use meta transactions to convert bridged ETH to MATIC without first needing MATIC. > > ####**Long-term Economic Sustainability** > > - The MATIC token is used for staking, and those rewards come from both a token pool and from transaction fee. The [1.2B token pool allocated to Validator Rewards is expected to run out in 2023](https://docs.polygon.technology/docs/maintain/validator/rewards/), after which there will be no more supply inflation. Fifth year validator rewards from the 12% pre-allocated supply will total $150M. After the 5th year, validators are meant to survive on transaction fees alone. > - Currently, [transaction Fees generate $70M annually, with $40M of it burned](https://tokenterminal.com/terminal/projects/polygon). This equates to $300K per validator annually. That's more than enough to run a validator annually. So besides Ethereum, this is one of the few networks with an economically-sustainable security model without inflation. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Polygon) to find submissions for other topics.

MaxSmart1981

from what i've read it's a decentralized L1 that has 'chain-agnostic interoperability built-in (EVM-compatible, cosmos/ibc, btc, doge, tron)' (from CMC). it's built on the cosmos sdk and tendermint pbft consensus engine, operates on pos foundation. supposedly devs can already pass messages between different chains. seems like if they can deliver - which is a big if - on their roadmap, they would definitely get some attention.

MrMoustacheMan

Kraken is moving next week towards unified EVM deposits and we are confirming with them there will be no issues to deposit Moons via Arb One: https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/simplifying-ethereum-ecosystem-based-deposits?lid=g0je7z8misug

99Beers

L2s are necessary because ETH couldn’t solve its problems with scaling. SOL is still faster and cheaper than the L2s with the benefit of not fragmenting users and liquidity. The EVM still faces issues with global fee markets causing gas prices to 100-1000x in high demand.

Django_McFly

It's more like... people learn to ~~swim~~ not drown while wearing a floatie and decide they know enough to go deep sea diving with no supervision. You're not going to get scammed if you just buy BTC or ETH. You're not going to get scammed if you stick to Uniswap, Aave, Compound, etc. People don't know what "EVM" means and can't even big picture ELI5 version explain how a blockchain works but decide they have the knowledge to deep dive into no name dexes and manually adding tokens.

faniadeepokn

It's an EVM-based Layer 1 which gives developers secure decentralized access to high-integrity data from other chains and the internet, it's known as the blockchain for data.

CointestMod

#Polygon Pro-Arguments Below is a Polygon pro-argument written by Chysce. > Polygon is a blockchain built on top of ethereum and it addresses the well-known [scalability issue](https://education.district0x.io/general-topics/ethereum-scaling/introduction-to-ethereum-scaling/) of Ethereum. Polygon is also EVM (Ethereum Virtual Machine) compatible which allows them to benefit from Ethereum's security. > > **>> Layer 2 solution - zkEVM Rollup** > > By using Layer 2 technology, Polygon enables faster and cheaper transactions compared to the Ethereum blockchain. This makes it a more practical choice for everyday transactions. The fact that zkEVM is EVM compatible allows seamless migration of Ethereum dApps to Polygon without the need for any code rewriting. > > **>> Partnerships and ecosystem** > > Polygon shines in terms of partnerships with both web 2 and web 3 companies and a number of NFT collections. Impressive list of partnerships can be found [here](https://www.blockchain-council.org/blockchain/polygon-technology-top-10-partnerships-depicting-the-rise-of-layer-2-ethereum-scaling-solution/) (Adidas, Starbucks, Meta, Reddit, Hamilton Lane, Magic Eden etc.). > > Polygon has an aggressive business development model. They have successfully brought in all types of web 3 participants into one [ecosystem](https://polygon.technology/ecosystem). > > **>> Current usage** > > * In terms of daily transactions [polygon (3 million)](https://polygonscan.com/chart/tx)has overtaken [ethereum (1 million)](https://etherscan.io/chart/tx). > * In terms of NFT Sales on Polygon is at a [3rd place](https://chainparrot.com/nft-trade-volume-by-chain-24s.html) just behind Ethereum and Solana. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Polygon) to find submissions for other topics.

CointestMod

#Ethereum Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by excalilbug which won 1st place in the Ethereum Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > Ethereum has been one of the top coins for more than 6 years now. And there are several reasons why it’s so popular: > > &#x200B; > > * **Reliability** > > Launched in 2016, Ethereum has been very reliable. Some networks (e.g. Solana) had more issues in single week than Ethereum in all its history. The only issues I can remember is of course the [famous hack](https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2020/09/17/the-55m-hack-that-almost-brought-ethereum-down/) (it was in the beginning of ETH) that led to the creation of ETH Classic and the network congestion in 2017 caused by… [internet cats](https://consensys.net/blog/news/the-inside-story-of-the-cryptokitties-congestion-crisis/). What else could it be, right? > > Other than that ETH remained very stable and trustworthy. It had no downtimes and new partners were joining the network which led to the next pro of Ethereum: > > &#x200B; > > * **Adoption** > > One of the biggest advantages of Ethereum is its widespread adoption. It had the first mover advantage and it used it pretty well. Today the [Ethereum Enterprise Alliance](https://entethalliance.org/eea-members/) includes dozens of members, among them such big names as JP Morgan, Ernst & Young or Microsoft > > Every regular visitor to r/cryptocurrency is also probably aware that Reddit chose Ethereum for their community points program. Currently Moons run on one of Ethereum layer 2 protocols called Arbitrum Nova > > Also worth mentioning is the fact that the [total value locked on Ethereum network is almost 60% of all chains](https://defillama.com/chains) and almost 6 times more than its biggest competitors, Tron and Binance chains (both “just” 10%) > > &#x200B; > > * **Advantages of PoW -> PoS transition** > > Transition from PoW to PoS of course has some disadvantages (the rich get richer) but it’s hard to deny that there are also some advantages. And probably the biggest one is the energy usage decrease. The [energy used by Ethereum is now almost 100% lower](https://blog.ethereum.org/2021/05/18/country-power-no-more) than when it was a PoW coin > > The other advantage of recent updates is the fact that ETH is now deflationary. After the implementation of EIP-1559 ETH now burns a fraction of the gas fees per transaction (so there are some positive sides to high fees too – more ETH is burned :P). [This year, in less than 3 months, more than 66,000 ETH was burned](https://finbold.com/ethereum-supply-drops-by-66000-eth-in-2023-making-it-deflationary/) > > And it’s not the end. Soon, on 12 April 2023, ETH will have another upgrade called Shanghai-Capella (Shapella). One of its improvements is [EVM Object Format](https://sensoriumxr.com/articles/375). It will separate code from data. It should make the network easier to use and it will reduce gas fees > > &#x200B; > > * **Layer 2 solutions** > > One of the biggest problems of Ethereum are high gas fees. But thanks to a very active community and smart develoeprs this problem is circumvented. Layer 2 protocols have very low fees while utilizing the benefits of Ethereum blockchain. They decrease data traffic by redirecting it offchain > > Those layer 2 solutions are so popular that Arbitrum has 4th largest total value locked in it and Polygon and optimism are 5th and 6th respectively! ([https://defillama.com/chains](https://defillama.com/chains)) ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/100p71b/top_coins_ethereum_proarguments_january_2023/) to be taken to the original topic-thread for this argument or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Ethereum) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Polygon Labs has released a 'Type 1 prover,' a technological advancement that allows networks compatible with Ethereum's EVM standard to become layer-2 networks using zero-knowledge proofs and connect to Polygon's ecosystem. This release is seen as a milestone set by Ethereum co-founder Vitalik Buterin for layer-2 networks to be nearly equivalent to main blockchains like Ethereum. The Type 1 prover is more efficient than the previously used Type 2 prover and is part of Polygon's 2.0 roadmap, focusing on interconnectedness and zero-knowledge cryptography. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

99Beers

The question I've asked myself is this, which is worse ETH fees or SOL outages. And to me, ETH fees are 100x worse than SOL outages. At one point ETH was my largest portfolio holding. I experimented in the ecosystem in the bear market because I was priced out in the bull market. The worst attributes of ETH, namely the global fee markets still persist in most of the L2s. That is why the hot topic right now is data availability and how to parallelize the EVM through novel solutions proposed by Celestia and Eigen. SOL was the first chain to have local fee markets and parallelization. That's what made it 100x the performance of ETH mainnet. Me, I'm not convinced a few dozen bridges and data compression to ETH are the solution.

SirBuscus

For people who want the instant settlement of crypto without the risk of losing everything by connecting to the wrong website, there are custodial wallets and services. For simple buy/sell/transfer transactions this should be very straightforward to accomplish, especially once we have EVM chains with low transaction fees being accepted at retailers.

OneRobotBoii

Thanks for the link. I’ll go through the paper but from their summary, a few assumptions raise some flags. > The consensus protocols were tested in a permissioned environment. In a permissioned environment, an EVM can process magnitude more tx than ETH mainnet. > Under a condition of partial or full asynchrony, the network will eventually revert to a state of synchrony > Messages will eventually arrive at their destination, but may require retransmission. I hope the paper covers the how. > Sybil resistance is not in the scope of the paper as it is a different problem domain to consensus. Addressing Sybil is not required to prove the soundness and robustness of a consensus protocol and would complicate the paper and blur its focus. Furthermore it is common not to do so in academic papers which are focussed on the problem of consensus. This is probably the biggest concern.

Spacesider

The full list of protocol changes are as follows: EIP-1153: Transient storage opcodes EIP-4788: Beacon block root in the EVM EIP-4844: Shard Blob Transactions EIP-5656: MCOPY - Memory copying instruction EIP-6780: SELFDESTRUCT only in same transaction EIP-7044: Perpetually Valid Signed Voluntary Exits EIP-7045: Increase Max Attestation Inclusion Slot EIP-7514: Add Max Epoch Churn Limit EIP-7516: BLOBBASEFEE opcode Source - https://blog.ethereum.org/2024/01/24/sepolia-holesky-dencun

Itslittlealexhorn

I think you're exaggerating calling it more insidious than HFT. At least with the EVM it's all out there. Sure a lot of users are clueless about the inner workings, but that applies to both HFT and MEV. It's a flaw for sure and ETH devs have always called it that, but as long as you allow block proposers to build their own blocks you simply cannot prevent it. Flashbots et al themselves are more of a solution than part of the problem, they're doing the heavy lifting of MEV and thus allow node operators with limited resources to stay in the game, preserving decentralization. I don't see any evidence that Flashbot is bribing eth development to preserve MEV. If that was actually happening it would be a huge deal.

krakrakra

Unfortunatelly, those that could work on it are compromised or hired by Flashbots et al. this is a huge business now, it's unfortunate, and certainly more insidious than WallStreet's HFTs. It's not just buy and sell with EVM, it's an infinite amount of combinations of actions. Put newbies or just unaware people are getting milked all the time. Pretty disgraceful for the "revolution of finance". WallStreet would bribe all the parties if they could have such power, but in ETH's case you just need a handful of devs and influencers.

HSuke

**ELI5**: It allows for rollup data to be stored in a temporary space that is deleted periodically and cheaper because it is not stored permanently. This leads to lower rollup fees (but not mainnet fees). It follows the vision that most Ethereum activity should be moved to rollups. **More info**: https://ethereum.org/roadmap/danksharding#what-is-protodanksharding > Right now, rollups are limited in how cheap they can make user transactions by the fact that they post their transactions in CALLDATA. This is expensive because it is processed by all Ethereum nodes and lives on chain forever, even though rollups only need the data for a short time. Proto-Danksharding introduces [temporary] data blobs that can be sent and attached to blocks. The data in these blobs is not accessible to the EVM and is automatically deleted after a fixed time period (1-3 months). **This means rollups can send their data much more cheaply and pass the savings on to end users in the form of cheaper transactions.**

CointestMod

#Ethereum Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by excalilbug which won 1st place in the Ethereum Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > Ethereum has been one of the top coins for more than 6 years now. And there are several reasons why it’s so popular: > > &#x200B; > > * **Reliability** > > Launched in 2016, Ethereum has been very reliable. Some networks (e.g. Solana) had more issues in single week than Ethereum in all its history. The only issues I can remember is of course the [famous hack](https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2020/09/17/the-55m-hack-that-almost-brought-ethereum-down/) (it was in the beginning of ETH) that led to the creation of ETH Classic and the network congestion in 2017 caused by… [internet cats](https://consensys.net/blog/news/the-inside-story-of-the-cryptokitties-congestion-crisis/). What else could it be, right? > > Other than that ETH remained very stable and trustworthy. It had no downtimes and new partners were joining the network which led to the next pro of Ethereum: > > &#x200B; > > * **Adoption** > > One of the biggest advantages of Ethereum is its widespread adoption. It had the first mover advantage and it used it pretty well. Today the [Ethereum Enterprise Alliance](https://entethalliance.org/eea-members/) includes dozens of members, among them such big names as JP Morgan, Ernst & Young or Microsoft > > Every regular visitor to r/cryptocurrency is also probably aware that Reddit chose Ethereum for their community points program. Currently Moons run on one of Ethereum layer 2 protocols called Arbitrum Nova > > Also worth mentioning is the fact that the [total value locked on Ethereum network is almost 60% of all chains](https://defillama.com/chains) and almost 6 times more than its biggest competitors, Tron and Binance chains (both “just” 10%) > > &#x200B; > > * **Advantages of PoW -> PoS transition** > > Transition from PoW to PoS of course has some disadvantages (the rich get richer) but it’s hard to deny that there are also some advantages. And probably the biggest one is the energy usage decrease. The [energy used by Ethereum is now almost 100% lower](https://blog.ethereum.org/2021/05/18/country-power-no-more) than when it was a PoW coin > > The other advantage of recent updates is the fact that ETH is now deflationary. After the implementation of EIP-1559 ETH now burns a fraction of the gas fees per transaction (so there are some positive sides to high fees too – more ETH is burned :P). [This year, in less than 3 months, more than 66,000 ETH was burned](https://finbold.com/ethereum-supply-drops-by-66000-eth-in-2023-making-it-deflationary/) > > And it’s not the end. Soon, on 12 April 2023, ETH will have another upgrade called Shanghai-Capella (Shapella). One of its improvements is [EVM Object Format](https://sensoriumxr.com/articles/375). It will separate code from data. It should make the network easier to use and it will reduce gas fees > > &#x200B; > > * **Layer 2 solutions** > > One of the biggest problems of Ethereum are high gas fees. But thanks to a very active community and smart develoeprs this problem is circumvented. Layer 2 protocols have very low fees while utilizing the benefits of Ethereum blockchain. They decrease data traffic by redirecting it offchain > > Those layer 2 solutions are so popular that Arbitrum has 4th largest total value locked in it and Polygon and optimism are 5th and 6th respectively! ([https://defillama.com/chains](https://defillama.com/chains)) ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/100p71b/top_coins_ethereum_proarguments_january_2023/) to be taken to the original topic-thread for this argument or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Ethereum) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

Normann1000

Depends what kind of LP you are. EVM and similar "defi" you probably only lose money but market making on atomic swap dexs or providing liquidity to Verus AMM is profitable.

IPerduMyUsername

Technically it's an important one. Practically it was unusable during that period of time so in most usecases that does constitute being "down". Either way, Solana is doing incredibly well for such a young Blockchain, they've learnt and corrected for their mistakes. It's the only non-EVM Blockchain out there worth even considering at this point.

WingChungGuruKhabib

\> wrapping in another contract would allow you see there was X amount of coin in the protocol. This is true ye, but you would not know if these privacy wrapped coins appear in just 1 wallet or if its just a lot of wallets from different people. I'm sure it isn't impossible to find out, just saying this new privacy mechanism adds a layer of complexity to most EVM projects moving forward as every existing or new project can make use of this wrapping feature on every EVM single chain.

GoodSamoSamo

What does that have to do with anything? What matters in a PoS system is how many node operators that, together, control more than one third (33.33%) of all stake on the network. Not the distribution of tokens, which changes with time. At one point, only a few BTC miners had 100% of circulating supply. https://nakaflow.io Also, Tezos was able to conduct an ICO (unlike Solana) because of when they launched. New protocols, even the newest EVM L2s, have to raise via VC. Crowdfunding days are over. Also, ICO or not, all these tokens correct in excess of 90% in a bear market.

Embarrassed-Wish-800

They are. Take a look at QANplatform. They have released their private blockchain, test net due anytime now. They are using CRYSTALS Dilithium as their primary post quantum algorithm and this was chosen before Nist recommended it. QVM - smart contracts can be built in any programming language that runs on a Linux kernel. (welcome all software developers) Quantum resistant blockchain. Xlink which cross signs transactions with post quantum algorithms EVM compatible meaning any other chain or dApp that is built on ETH can migrate to Qanplatforms quantum resistant chain. Fixed transaction fees so organisations can build and use blockchain without un predictable fees. Hybrid - private and public chain with super high TPS Also this - Led by H.E. Sheikh Mansoor Bin Khalifa Al-Thani, a prominent member of Qatar’s ruling family, MBK Holding unveiled its strategic investment of $15 million in QANplatform, an emerging technology startup based in the United Kingdom.

cryptolipto

Zero knowledge proofs are one of the most sought after products in cryptography. I’m telling you there’s a zero knowledge EVM in production. And then you say you don’t know what’s so interesting about that. Have fun with your Dino coin

losh11

> Polygon is going 15 million transactions PER DAY No. Pologon had around 2M txs per day from 2022 until last month. Then suddenly there seems to be an inorganic spike. The avg txs per day is around 7m. Litecoin on the other hand has around 1 million txs per day, considerably less. But it has a transacted value of around $1-2bn per day. What about Polygon? > Charlie dumped his entire bag of litecoin at the peak in 2017. The project is basically abandoned compared to what you call VC backed polygon. Charlie barely had any Litecoin. He has coins that he fairly mined himself, as there was no premine/ICO. Charlie continues to be involved daily in development, and so do the team. In fact last year we launched MWEB, which adds significant fungibility and privacy to Litecoin. This has been the biggest change to Litecoin since launch. However one of Litecoin’s biggest failures has been to market new features and developments. And one of the big reasons is because we don’t have ICO or VC money to do that. Everything is pretty much grassroots. > ZK EVM, which is by far the most interesting tech in crypto right now Now that’s just an opinion stated as fact. There’s actually a few different smart contract technologies that’s being developed for LTC like Litecoin Computer, which has many improvements compared against EVM. Atomic Swaps are still in development for cross chain compatibility, and there’s been people building DEXes also. Idk what’s so unique or interesting about zkEVM?

cryptolipto

Gratz. Polygon is going 15 million transactions PER DAY Charlie dumped his entire bag of litecoin at the peak in 2017. The project is basically abandoned compared to what you call VC backed polygon. Call it what you want, they are onboarding huge projects every day to their ZK EVM, which is by far the most interesting tech in crypto right now People who thing some rando coin is going to be used as money are delusional. If anything, it’ll be a low cost stablecoin

jekpopulous2

The biggest deterrent to using DeFi on Solana is that you can’t see the source code for dapps… so there’s no way to verify that the code being executed is the same code posted on Github. For this reason most whales depositing 6-8 figures into protocols tend to stick with EVM dapps where the contract data can be verified independently. I suspect both Solana and ETH rollups will continue to grow rapidly with Solana dominating the NFT/GameFi sector and rollups absorbing most of the DeFi liquidity.

2070FUTURENOWWHUURT

worth pointing out that solana used to be an absolute crash fest, more than any other chain the critics were justified but the thing is, solana tech apparently improved those who noticed the lack of crashes and re-adjusted their outlook had an opportunity that's why I have a big bag of NEON, the parallelised EVM that runs on Solana. it isn't that this sub is wrong - it's a multitude of opinions, it's just that people accept consensus opinions (which can be right) and then are too lazy or inept to update their judgements when new information arises that is how you get an edge in the market, don't be lazy and research new information for yourself, continually update your opinions, crypto is too dynamic and new to have concrete opinions on anything

Fataltc2002

Dude please stop lmao. This is why this sub never makes a dime. Algorand will never take ETH's position. Only one that stands a chance is Solana solely because it has ripped the dex activity from it (i degen for a living, on chain is ded for ETH). Solana however sucks in terms of dapp development (and lacks the friendliness of EVM ... for now) and contract/programs are quite basic rn.

jawni

Most other chains are just EVM offshoots and the ones that aren't(Cosmos eco, Move chains like APT/SUI, etc), don't offer the same UX that Solana does or they don't offer the same dapps/liquidity/infrastucture that Solana does

GoodSamoSamo

Solana continues to become more and more decentralized with time, which is far far easier than becoming scalable with time. If we use an objective measure of decentralization like Nakamoto coefficient, you'll find SOL is far more decentralized than most L1s and certainly WAY more decentralized than EVM L2s (all of which have centralized sequencers... about and centralized as it gets). Also, the point is that unless you were around before 2018, you cannot raise money for a new chain via public crowdfunding. You have to go the VC route. Plain and simple.

Thermostcool

Nope you just know nothing about Solana. Its the only L1 that is not based on EVM its a novel take on Blockchain.

KlearCat

> Retail shitting on SOL and other coins (like every other EVM L2 or new L1) is done by literally 50 IQ people who somehow have this notion in their head that VC money = bad. This is wrong. I don't think VC money is bad. I'm just not looking to invest in a centralized VC coin as I don't see value in them. I don't think they will be valuable in the future. I see value in decentralization. Now....I may be wrong and centralized coins like Solana do appreciate and become large in the future. I've been wrong many times when investing. But you doing this whole "They just think VC money is bad" is totally missing the point. > Even L1s or projects funded by ICO retraced in excess of 90% in the bear market. It doesn't matter if VC money or retail, you cannot escape the downside volatility that comes with crypto.ICO days are done. I stay away from ICO coins too. I think those will also not retain value. > You need VC money to fund innovation and progress. Without it, this industry would never get anywhere. > People who fade chains for being funded by VC capital are going to underperform massively in this next cycle and subsequent ones too. Absolutely disagree that you need VC money in this context. VC money can, for instance, fund companies who use a decentralized blockchain. But I don't think it's needed for the actual running of centralized blockchains. I think it's clear right now that big players are choosing non-VC backed decentralized blockchains. I guess we will see who is right or wrong in 5 years.

GoodSamoSamo

Retail shitting on SOL and other coins (like every other EVM L2 or new L1) is done by literally 50 IQ people who somehow have this notion in their head that VC money = bad. All money is green, everyone who invests wants to make a return, if the opportunity presents itself to dump, people will. Even L1s or projects funded by ICO retraced in excess of 90% in the bear market. It doesn't matter if VC money or retail, you cannot escape the downside volatility that comes with crypto.ICO days are done. You need VC money to fund innovation and progress. Without it, this industry would never get anywhere. People who fade chains for being funded by VC capital are going to underperform massively in this next cycle and subsequent ones too.

DC600A

**Oasis Network (ROSE):** Solving the blockchain privacy paradox. It is the first and only confidential EVM in production that can be used as both L1 (Sapphire) and L2 (OPL) to enable customizable, configurable privacy. Impact in responsible AI, account abstraction frameworks, and new-gen use cases like SocialFi and on-chain ads while making the usual web3 utility contributions through confidential voting/secret ballots in DAOs, confidential game logic and secret state in web3 gaming, confidential auctions/sealed bids for NFT marketplace, etc. It also provides privacy for cross-ecosystem partnerships like with Crust Files (Polkadot) and Oraichain (Cosmos).

Character-Dot-4078

I dont claim anything from EVM chains like juno, too easy for scams, anyone can just set up a token for anything with no chain.

ConfidentPollution3

Anyone else loading up on NEON EVM? First parallel EVM running directly on SOL. The sky is the limit.

K0nk3y

Most EVM chains use the same address as Ethereum. So when you have an address on Ethereum, you will automatically have that address on i.e. Avalanche, Polygon, BSC and many more. The only thing needed to be done is change the network on the wallet.

K0nk3y

Exactly, and even if it was on another EVM chain, you can still just change the network to that chain on your wallet(most EVM chains use the same address as Ethereum) and transfer it back. ERC20 is just a technical standard which was implemented after Ethereum was launched. Actually ETH gets wrapped to the ERC20 standard as well to be able to trade it for other ERC20 tokens. That said, Circle probably uses an internal wallet infrastructure for their customers, it's not like they set up a new wallet for each customer, they just use addresses that are derived from same wallet(or maybe even abstracted in a smart contract). So basically it's always possible to return the ETH, but because a lot of steps need to be taken manually they just don't do it( also for security reasons)

MoneroArbo

I'm pretty sure some chains like to pad the numbers by stuffing non-economic transactions, especially VC funded chains, but regardless I don't think it's worthwhile to compare EVM or similar smart contract chains to purely monetary chains. Ethereum does 2-3x the transaction count of Bitcoin, and with Ethereum fees I think most of those have to be economic in nature, but most of them are token swaps or various smart chain shenanigans that don't exist on BTC, LTC, et cetera

Ok-Western-5799

Privacy - Railgun Project (RAIL) - Leading privacy protocol on Ethereum and other EVM chains AI - Fetch\_ai (FET) - Making waves since Q3. Has shown its massive potential. Gaming (NAKA) - Amazing game play with impressive market place and massive adoption Supply Chain - VeChain (VET) - As you have mentioned.

CointestMod

#Hedera Con-Arguments Below is a Hedera con-argument written by a deleted user. > Hedera Hashgraph is Delware Limited Liability Company. > > **It's also a Directed Acyclic Graph DLT that uses a leaderless asynchronous BFT algorithm with virtual voting.** This is the same as Fantom, which is also a a Directed Acyclic Graph DLT that uses a leaderless asynchronous BFT algorithm with virtual elections. The main difference between the two is that Hedera is governed by a permissioned Council of 26 (up to 39) while Fantom is mostly decentralized. > > Hedera has [3-5 second deterministic finality](https://hedera.com/hbar), which is noticeably slower than Fantom's 2-second finality, but is still very fast. > > Hedera was launched in 2019 as a centralized DLT targeting institutional and enterprise companies. It is not meant for the retail sector and has almost no DeFi activity. > > ##Semi-Centralized Proof-of-Authority DLT > > - Hedera uses **Proof-of-Authority** (PoA). It has [semi-centralized governance](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/core-concepts/hashgraph-consensus-algorithms) controlled by the 26 (up to 39) members of the governing council, made up of [publicly-known companies](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/mainnet-nodes), and the 7 board of directors. The council each control their own permissioned validator used for consensus. > - New members of the [council are approved by majority vote](https://files.hedera.com/Hedera_COUNCIL-OVERVIEW_2022_JUNE.pdf), and existing ones may be removed by 2/3 vote. Council members can serve 3-9 years consecutively before they have to take a 3-year break. > - There are barely any public details about the staking power of any of the nodes. There is also a Nothing-at-Stake issue because there is no slashing or economic punishments. They may get kicked kicked off the council for misbehaving, but there's no economic disincentive. > - The code was proprietary software that no one was allowed to fork, and it was closed source up until 2022. > - Its nodes have extremely [high enterprise-level requirements](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/mainnet-nodes/node-requirements). 5 TB NVMe drives, a $10K NVIDIA Telsa V100 GPU, a 1 Gbps sustained network, Google Cloud Compute Engine VM. These specs are so high that they completely outclass Solana validator requirements. > - Every node has a dedicated GCP IP address, making Google Cloud Platform a possible a single point failure for outages. > > Hedera is designed to be controlled by a conglomerate. Hedera supporters truly believe that is still considered decentralized because they do not believe it's likely publicly-known companies will collude and misbehave. I do not think that design fits well with the crypto community, but acknolwedge that there is a niche community that embraces Proof-of-Authority. > > ##Untrustworthy documentation > > * Much of Hedera's documentation isn't based on the current state of Hedera Hashgraph, but on its ideal state. > * It says it has [a fully decentralized governing body](https://hedera.com/prescription)", which is misleading since they use a 26-member pre-authorized Governing Council. > * It calls itself a "[proof-of-stake public distributed ledger](https://hedera.com/learning/hedera-hashgraph/what-is-hedera-hashgraph)", but it's actually controlled by the governing council and uses Proof-of-Authority. The public hasn't been able to stake (other than the questionable "proxy staking") on it since Hedera's launch 3 years ago. > * For comparison, VeChain is more decentralized than Hedera Hashgraph with its 101 authority nodes and [publicly-available data on their nodes](https://vechainstats.com/authority-nodes/). But at least VeChain is honest about being Proof-of-Authority and even calls itself a [compromise between centralization and decentralization](https://docs.vechain.org/thor/learn/proof-of-authority.html) in their documentation. > * **Real Throughput**: 10K TPS is extremely misleading because it doesn't take into account EVM smart contracts. It published those metrics in 2019, when the smart contact throughput [was 10 TPS](https://ercwl.medium.com/hedera-hashgraph-time-for-some-fud-9e6653c11525), and that was the throughput for Hedera up until Smart Contracts 2.0 released in early 2022. > * Unfortunately, there are no good real estimations for max throughput because Hedera lacks dApps and is a ghost town. It's not congested and regularly sees 5-30 TPS without dApps, so it doesn't get pushed to its limits. With the introduction of Hedera Token Service, Hedera has now somewhat caught up to the misleading documentation it had for 3 years. HTS has an upper limit of 10K TPS, but not everything is going to use it, and [smart contract transactions are throttled at 350 TPS](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet). Some actions, like TopicCreate and AccountCreate transactions on Hedera are down to 2-5 TPS. We don't know what a real performance is going to look like until Hedera builds up its DeFi presence. What we do know is that it's going to be well below 10K TPS and that it was dishonest with throughput documentation prior this year. > > > ##Horrible Tokenomics > > - There is 38% expected supply inflation in 2022, 50% inflation in 2023, and a [whopping 83% inflation in 2024](https://messari.io/asset/hedera-hashgraph/profile/supply-schedule). I'm very skeptical that the retail sector investing in Hedera is aware of how quickly the circulating supply is increasing and has priced that in. > - Only 42% of the supply has currently been released, guaranteeing high inflation for years down the line > - Hedera very likely passes the Howey Test and would be considered a security asset. It is controlled by a council of 26 companies with a large investment of staked HBAR. Holders of HBAR have an expectation of profit derived from the work of Hedera Hashgraph. > - Nearly [50% of the supply](https://messari.io/asset/hedera-hashgraph/profile/supply-schedule) has gone to employees and the foundation. The majority of the rest (40%) is going to the Hedera Treasury. > - The tokenomics a lot like a giant cash grab ICO that will have years of high inflation. That's extremely scary for a retail investor. > - The 50B token maximum should not be trusted at all and likely will not hold. Those validator nodes that control governance are not cheap and will not run themselves freely once the supply limit is reached. By putting an arbitrarily-high supply, they've simply pushed governance change for tokenomics to be dealt with in the future. > > ##Other > > - DeFi is practically non-existent on Hedera, not surprising since it was built centralized. According to both DefiLlama and DappRadar, Hedera has only one notable DeFi project: Stader. Hedera's [total DeFi TVL of $40M](https://defillama.com/chain/Hedera) is less than 1000x smaller than [Ethereum's](https://defillama.com/chains) and 25x smaller than the nearly-identical Fantom's, which has over 100 DeFi projects on it. > - Hedera uses a [predictable fee schedule](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/fees). Token transfers are very cheap at $0.0001. Smart contracts gas fees are considerably more expensive at $0.05 to $1. That's actually really expensive for a 25-node centralized service, but the high fees aren't too surprising because it uses EVM, which is known to be inefficient. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_hedera) to find submissions for other topics.

DC600A

I am really psyched about Oasis Network (ROSE) for the privacy aspect because they have the only confidential EVM in production that can be used in both L1 (Sapphire) and L2 (OPL) and it opens up smart, customizable, configurable privacy. Oasis's privacy solutions and technologies directly impact responsible AI, account abstraction frameworks, and even new-gen use cases like SocialFi. A great application of smart privacy in AI for Defi is the Ocean Predictoor dApp and its [data farming](https://oasisprotocol.org/blog/oasis-ocean-predictoor-data-farming) initiative.

jawni

Most of the use of Avalanche is on the C-chain, which is just an EVM subnet and suffers from the same congestion and high fees that ETH suffers from.

pink_tshirt

So I work with EVM chains. I'd say my livelihood depends on it. But I just tried Solana (yolo memecoins) and holy shit its so much smoother. The TX was almost instant.

Aceandmorty

As someone already mentioned, bc the EVM doesn't natively understand/recognize tokens, wallets can't either. It's the same reason why you have to manually import certain tokens in order for their balance to show up.

StolenApe

They’re talking about signing transactions to interact with smart contracts. It’s usually how they get drained. They sign a transaction to modify the smart contract to give someone else the ability to spend their tokens. Then scammers just take them. To always sign a transaction, it’s just that with Bitcoin it happens when you press send. EVM chains require transactions for everything you do on chain, so you’re often signing transactions that aren’t specifically for sending tokens.

Aceandmorty

Unfortunately this type of scam is inherent with erc20 style tokens since the EVM doesn't understand what tokens are, wallets can't inform users what will happen when you sign a tx.

WingChungGuruKhabib

Look into illumineX \- First Private DEX on any EVM \- Supports 20+ EVMs at launch \- does confidential cross chain swaps \- MEV free swaps. \- Allows for wrapping of tokens into private tokens. \- fully compliant. \- Native BTC - EVM swaps in near future. \- Hasnt launched yet, will launch at the end of the year/early January.

CointestMod

#Polygon Pro-Arguments Below is a Polygon pro-argument written by Shippior. > [Polygon](https://polygon.technology/)(Ticker: [MATIC](https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/polygon)) is an Ethereum Virtual Machine ([EVM](https://ethereum.org/en/developers/docs/evm/)). It is a sidechain from Ethereum for the solving the scaling problem that Ethereum has by offering faster and more cheap transactions by offering transaction to settle on the Polygon chain and to be later settled on the Ethereum chain. It was created in 2017 by an Indian based team as the Matic network and was later rebranded to Polygon. > > Polygon has a maximum supply of 10 billion tokens. The [total breakdown](https://www.coinbase.com/institutional/research-insights/research/tokenomics-review/polygon-matic-scaling-solutions#:~:text=Polygon's%20token%20MATIC%20is%20primarily,validator%20nodes%20to%20earn%20rewards.) of this supply is 19% Initial exchange offering, 16% to the team, 4% to advisors, 12% to staking rewards, 21.86% to the foundation and 23.33% for future investments in the ecosystem. This shows that there is a lot of funds available for development of the blockchain. This is also seen in the number of developers that chose to work on Polygon. The number of developers working on Polygon has grown to over 1100, which is 16x more than in [2018](https://twitter.com/theweb3sharma/status/1615592481047080961). > > Contrary to other blockchains, polygon is not just one blockchain but a number of blockchains under one hood, each of them focused on a different application. This allows Polygon to compete on several (almost all markets at the same time). It has prominent applications for DeFi, NFTs and [web3 gaming](https://techcrunch.com/2023/03/20/polygon-and-immutable-partner-to-help-onboard-more-gamers-and-developers-into-web3/). For instance it is at the moment a [very populair chain for NFTs] > (https://ambcrypto.com/polygons-nft-space-is-booming-as-trade-count-surges-thanks-to/) and many projects from other chains want to migrate to Polygon. At the moment it has roughly the same volume as [Solana, but both are still dwarfed by the NFT volume of ETH.]( > https://dune.com/rchen8/opensea) > > The most well-known DEXs on the Polygon chain are [Uniswap](https://app.uniswap.org/#/swap), [Quickswap](https://quickswap.exchange/#/) and [1Inch](https://app.1inch.io/#/137/simple/swap/MATIC/DAI). These are all very high profile DEXs. Because Polygon is based on Solidity, just like Ethereum, it is easy to implement it on a DEX that was originally built for Ethereum. This also helps the Polygon chain in general as contract or updates that are developped for Ethereum can be implemented with very little effort. Even if that was a problem, Polygon has currently the fastest growing [number of developers](https://dailyhodl.com/2023/01/19/polygon-cosmos-and-two-ethereum-rivals-have-surged-over-400-in-one-metric-says-crypto-firm/#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20report%2C%20Polygon,2%2C000%20and%20Solana%20about%202%2C250.). > > > Polygon has impressed several multinationals to host their web3 introductions. Starbucks has hosted their rewards program called [Starbucks Odyssey program](https://odyssey.starbucks.com/) on the chain. Reddit has chosen Polygon chain to host their [Avatar NFTs](https://decrypt.co/112783/reddit-nfts-surge-as-polygon-based-avatars-reach-millions-of-new-users) which has seen a large influx of new wallets for MATIC. > > Due to all the hype for MATIC it continues to grow. More than [11 million active wallets](https://polygon.technology/blog/polygon-insights-for-2022) were present in Q4 2022, an increase of 115% compared to Q4 2021. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Polygon) to find submissions for other topics.

PENGUINSflyGOOD

eh I mean you can argue that the EVM is fundamentally not secure compared to different implementations that offer formal verification of the code.

MaximumStudent1839

>ARB and ZKSync did, funnily enough both ARB and ZKsync were not able to handle the load of insccriptions and stopped producing blocks while avax remains running You are right. EVM sucks balls.

Rough_Data_6015

yea it does, but what's the point? Now I can go use a bridge to swap my tokens between 2 EVM chains and use the same dapps with slightly different UX. It doesn't solve any problems, the C-Chain will just be as congested as Eth when it gets the same amount of traffic.

CointestMod

#Polygon Pro-Arguments Below is a Polygon pro-argument written by Shippior. > [Polygon](https://polygon.technology/)(Ticker: [MATIC](https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/polygon)) is an Ethereum Virtual Machine ([EVM](https://ethereum.org/en/developers/docs/evm/)). It is a sidechain from Ethereum for the solving the scaling problem that Ethereum has by offering faster and more cheap transactions by offering transaction to settle on the Polygon chain and to be later settled on the Ethereum chain. It was created in 2017 by an Indian based team as the Matic network and was later rebranded to Polygon. > > Polygon has a maximum supply of 10 billion tokens. The [total breakdown](https://www.coinbase.com/institutional/research-insights/research/tokenomics-review/polygon-matic-scaling-solutions#:~:text=Polygon's%20token%20MATIC%20is%20primarily,validator%20nodes%20to%20earn%20rewards.) of this supply is 19% Initial exchange offering, 16% to the team, 4% to advisors, 12% to staking rewards, 21.86% to the foundation and 23.33% for future investments in the ecosystem. This shows that there is a lot of funds available for development of the blockchain. This is also seen in the number of developers that chose to work on Polygon. The number of developers working on Polygon has grown to over 1100, which is 16x more than in [2018](https://twitter.com/theweb3sharma/status/1615592481047080961). > > Contrary to other blockchains, polygon is not just one blockchain but a number of blockchains under one hood, each of them focused on a different application. This allows Polygon to compete on several (almost all markets at the same time). It has prominent applications for DeFi, NFTs and [web3 gaming](https://techcrunch.com/2023/03/20/polygon-and-immutable-partner-to-help-onboard-more-gamers-and-developers-into-web3/). For instance it is at the moment a [very populair chain for NFTs] > (https://ambcrypto.com/polygons-nft-space-is-booming-as-trade-count-surges-thanks-to/) and many projects from other chains want to migrate to Polygon. At the moment it has roughly the same volume as [Solana, but both are still dwarfed by the NFT volume of ETH.]( > https://dune.com/rchen8/opensea) > > The most well-known DEXs on the Polygon chain are [Uniswap](https://app.uniswap.org/#/swap), [Quickswap](https://quickswap.exchange/#/) and [1Inch](https://app.1inch.io/#/137/simple/swap/MATIC/DAI). These are all very high profile DEXs. Because Polygon is based on Solidity, just like Ethereum, it is easy to implement it on a DEX that was originally built for Ethereum. This also helps the Polygon chain in general as contract or updates that are developped for Ethereum can be implemented with very little effort. Even if that was a problem, Polygon has currently the fastest growing [number of developers](https://dailyhodl.com/2023/01/19/polygon-cosmos-and-two-ethereum-rivals-have-surged-over-400-in-one-metric-says-crypto-firm/#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20report%2C%20Polygon,2%2C000%20and%20Solana%20about%202%2C250.). > > > Polygon has impressed several multinationals to host their web3 introductions. Starbucks has hosted their rewards program called [Starbucks Odyssey program](https://odyssey.starbucks.com/) on the chain. Reddit has chosen Polygon chain to host their [Avatar NFTs](https://decrypt.co/112783/reddit-nfts-surge-as-polygon-based-avatars-reach-millions-of-new-users) which has seen a large influx of new wallets for MATIC. > > Due to all the hype for MATIC it continues to grow. More than [11 million active wallets](https://polygon.technology/blog/polygon-insights-for-2022) were present in Q4 2022, an increase of 115% compared to Q4 2021. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Polygon) to find submissions for other topics.

MaximumStudent1839

That is a huge misconception. EVM devs have huge stickiness to ETH ecosystem. And it is mainly ETH native devs who understand EVM. This is why "non-ETH aligned" EVMs don't get to attract devs. Web 2 vets know it is a shit VM. Web 3 devs get sucked by ETH liquidity. Only the low talent copy-and-pasta tend to land on non-ETH EVMs. This is why, the successful non-ETH chains will be the ones that don't use EVMs. They will have dev and community stickiness.

CointestMod

#Polygon Pro-Arguments Below is a Polygon pro-argument written by Shippior. > [Polygon](https://polygon.technology/)(Ticker: [MATIC](https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/polygon)) is an Ethereum Virtual Machine ([EVM](https://ethereum.org/en/developers/docs/evm/)). It is a sidechain from Ethereum for the solving the scaling problem that Ethereum has by offering faster and more cheap transactions by offering transaction to settle on the Polygon chain and to be later settled on the Ethereum chain. It was created in 2017 by an Indian based team as the Matic network and was later rebranded to Polygon. > > Polygon has a maximum supply of 10 billion tokens. The [total breakdown](https://www.coinbase.com/institutional/research-insights/research/tokenomics-review/polygon-matic-scaling-solutions#:~:text=Polygon's%20token%20MATIC%20is%20primarily,validator%20nodes%20to%20earn%20rewards.) of this supply is 19% Initial exchange offering, 16% to the team, 4% to advisors, 12% to staking rewards, 21.86% to the foundation and 23.33% for future investments in the ecosystem. This shows that there is a lot of funds available for development of the blockchain. This is also seen in the number of developers that chose to work on Polygon. The number of developers working on Polygon has grown to over 1100, which is 16x more than in [2018](https://twitter.com/theweb3sharma/status/1615592481047080961). > > Contrary to other blockchains, polygon is not just one blockchain but a number of blockchains under one hood, each of them focused on a different application. This allows Polygon to compete on several (almost all markets at the same time). It has prominent applications for DeFi, NFTs and [web3 gaming](https://techcrunch.com/2023/03/20/polygon-and-immutable-partner-to-help-onboard-more-gamers-and-developers-into-web3/). For instance it is at the moment a [very populair chain for NFTs] > (https://ambcrypto.com/polygons-nft-space-is-booming-as-trade-count-surges-thanks-to/) and many projects from other chains want to migrate to Polygon. At the moment it has roughly the same volume as [Solana, but both are still dwarfed by the NFT volume of ETH.]( > https://dune.com/rchen8/opensea) > > The most well-known DEXs on the Polygon chain are [Uniswap](https://app.uniswap.org/#/swap), [Quickswap](https://quickswap.exchange/#/) and [1Inch](https://app.1inch.io/#/137/simple/swap/MATIC/DAI). These are all very high profile DEXs. Because Polygon is based on Solidity, just like Ethereum, it is easy to implement it on a DEX that was originally built for Ethereum. This also helps the Polygon chain in general as contract or updates that are developped for Ethereum can be implemented with very little effort. Even if that was a problem, Polygon has currently the fastest growing [number of developers](https://dailyhodl.com/2023/01/19/polygon-cosmos-and-two-ethereum-rivals-have-surged-over-400-in-one-metric-says-crypto-firm/#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20report%2C%20Polygon,2%2C000%20and%20Solana%20about%202%2C250.). > > > Polygon has impressed several multinationals to host their web3 introductions. Starbucks has hosted their rewards program called [Starbucks Odyssey program](https://odyssey.starbucks.com/) on the chain. Reddit has chosen Polygon chain to host their [Avatar NFTs](https://decrypt.co/112783/reddit-nfts-surge-as-polygon-based-avatars-reach-millions-of-new-users) which has seen a large influx of new wallets for MATIC. > > Due to all the hype for MATIC it continues to grow. More than [11 million active wallets](https://polygon.technology/blog/polygon-insights-for-2022) were present in Q4 2022, an increase of 115% compared to Q4 2021. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Polygon) to find submissions for other topics.

AVAX_DeFI

You can use your own custom VM on a subnet if you don’t like the EVM. Incoming comments calling me a shill lol

Strawberry_666

\+1 on Monero! As much as I like BTC and EVM chains, Monero fits the definition of true digital money. It should be in everyone pf.

Rough_Data_6015

What else should I expect from devs that use a copy of the EVM instead of building something new? Question devs that use EVM clones, they are using shortcuts to bring something to market for a reason.