See More CryptosHome

LN

LINK

Show Trading View Graph

Mentions (24Hr)

7

-30.00% Today

Reddit Posts

r/BitcoinSee Post

Paying with LN NFC in Europe

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! May 19, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

Someone made OnlyFiles on LN network

r/BitcoinSee Post

I've made a simple app to sell your files for LN-BTC

r/BitcoinSee Post

1000 sats for free for first 5 comments

r/BitcoinSee Post

Financial Times futurology vs Bitcoin LN present reality (pic shows total amount of BTC forwarded by a small LN node the last 10 months)

r/BitcoinSee Post

Seeding BTC transactions now with nLockTime to be mined later in the century. Trivial fees today could be massive miner bounties when blocks start hitting in say 2070?

r/BitcoinSee Post

Don't get confuse. We are in ATH -> Hashrate = ATH, 1Yr+ HODL wave = ATH, LN capacity = ATH

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! May 12, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

SLP376 Evan Kaloudis – Zeus: Self Sovereign LN Wallet

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! May 05, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

Best DCA Exchange?

r/BitcoinSee Post

Panama bitcoin bill. Are zero taxes better than legal tender?

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! April 28, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

All we need is merchants and easy POS, particularly for small business.

r/BitcoinSee Post

Tightrope by @instabot42 ~ for automatically rebalancing LN channels within a trusted/authenticated sub-network.

r/BitcoinSee Post

Proposing that Super PAC's, all fundraising, charities, and municipalities with BTC on their balance sheets simply provide the public with their Xpub/Zpub? Mallardshead 6102

r/BitcoinSee Post

The "PayDay problem" in a hyperbitcoinized world

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! April 21, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

Clarification on the Lightning network

r/BitcoinSee Post

lightening network censorship, is it possible?

r/CryptoCurrencySee Post

Bitcoin is about to change the game (cont.)

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! April 14, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

Lighting and BaNk CoNtRoL

r/CryptoCurrencySee Post

Bitcoin is about to change the game again, and some folks are missing it.

r/BitcoinSee Post

The price is falling, so talk of manipulation and fractional reserve is increasing proportionately. There is no manipulation.

r/BitcoinSee Post

I have an umbrel Bitcoin LN full node - how to add blinky LEDs to show what it does?

r/BitcoinSee Post

Grading the 2022 Bitcoin Conference. Unpopular opinions.

r/BitcoinSee Post

Roughly how liquid would an e-commerce giant like Target need their Lightning channel to be?

r/BitcoinSee Post

Yes, BitPay sucks, but it's a very good sign then EVEN THEY just integrated LN. Bitcoin's LN is exploding in adoption worldwide.

r/BitcoinSee Post

Exactly when/how will LN integration work with all those retailers?

r/CryptoCurrencySee Post

Rene Pickhardt: I may be operationally blind here but theLN is - as of now - UNRELIABLE by design

r/BitcoinSee Post

Correlation between Lightning adoption and bitcoin price.

r/BitcoinSee Post

Lemme see if I got this straight. If we buy goods from these retailers using a self custodied LN wallet, there won't be any way for it to be pegged as a taxable event linked to us, no? Similar to purchasing anonymously w cash? So, in a way, did Jack Mallers workaround btc not being legal tender?

r/BitcoinSee Post

This year these many stores will accept Bitcoin/dollar payments running on LN.

r/BitcoinSee Post

Marques Brownlee (among others) is making louder noises about YouTube's apparent inability to deal with spam comments. Is this an opportunity for Bitcoin.

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! April 07, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

BTC lightning network payment system

r/BitcoinSee Post

Bitcoin, LN scaling, potential future use cases

r/BitcoinSee Post

Kraken integrated the LN! Their customers can now instantly deposit and withdraw bitcoin with nearly no fees through the Lightning Network.

r/BitcoinSee Post

Which part of a Lightning Payment Request indicates the destination LN Node ?

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! March 31, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/CryptoCurrencySee Post

(Bitcoin LN-Strike integration?) "Apple working on first-party financial services under codename 'Breakout' |The project would propel Apple deeper into the financial services world, building on a lineup that already includes the Apple Card, peer-to-peer Apple Pay payments, and the Wallet app".

r/BitcoinSee Post

(Bitcoin LN-Strike integration?) "Apple working on first-party financial services under codename 'Breakout' |The project would propel Apple deeper into the financial services world, building on a lineup that already includes the Apple Card, peer-to-peer Apple Pay payments, and the Wallet app".

r/CryptoCurrencySee Post

I have Biaheza Course [2022 TikTok Update], Anton Kraly (2021), Helium 10 Elite (2022), Dan Vas (2021), Amazing Selling Machine 12 (2021), Ecom Elites 2.0, Gabriel St Germain, Iman Gadzi, and 1000+ courses. I can sell you my whole course collection (30 Terabytes) of courses for $20 PayPal!

r/BitcoinSee Post

Bullshit-Posts as an indicator for a pump

r/CryptoCurrencySee Post

Decred News Update - On-Chain Voting Underway, dcrd 1.7.1, LN Upgrades, Subsidy Change

r/BitcoinSee Post

Jack Mallers tweet hints at Whole Foods, Starbucks and several others accepting payments via LN using Strike.

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! March 24, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

BIP21 is necessary to reach widespread adoption

r/BitcoinSee Post

Bitcoin Monthly with black coffee and BQA about the LN point of sale system from Ben Arc, Unchained capital data leak and the wasabi compliance nightmare

r/BitcoinSee Post

How to help others use btc?

r/BitcoinSee Post

Lightning network adoption

r/CryptoCurrencySee Post

Cardano grows in important stats

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! March 17, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

A problem I see with bitcoin

r/BitcoinSee Post

Quo vadis Bitpay?

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! March 10, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/CryptoCurrencySee Post

Six months have come and gone. The Implementation of the Bitcoin Law in El Salvador is not going well...

r/BitcoinSee Post

yes

r/BitcoinSee Post

Secure your keys - When it's good and, especially, when it's not

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! March 03, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

I need to send my friend a 100, how do I do this cheapest?

r/BitcoinSee Post

Strike App Converted my BTC to USD w/o Consent

r/BitcoinSee Post

Helping out some friends affected by situation in Ukraine

r/BitcoinSee Post

Beware Eclair Wallet

r/CryptoCurrencySee Post

Beware Eclair Wallet

r/BitcoinSee Post

Everyone says we need easy and cheap markets for non-KYC BTC... So I have done this.

r/BitcoinSee Post

New professional FUD going around about how miners could be ordered to DoS attack Russia by refusing valid transactions. 🤡

r/BitcoinSee Post

Everyone says we need easy and cheap markets for non-KYC BTC... So I have done this.

r/CryptoCurrencySee Post

Any wallets/exchanges on LN that also use SegWit?

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! February 24, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/CryptoCurrencySee Post

Earn Bitcoin - Make Money with OXBTC [Learn & Earn Cryptocurrencies, and start crypto mining]

r/BitcoinSee Post

Why Kraken is the most underrated Bitcoin exchange

r/BitcoinSee Post

metrics other than price

r/BitcoinSee Post

How to CORRECTLY fundraise for counter-government protests

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! February 17, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

Cash app activating lightning is the biggest game changer. It is the tipping point. Exponentially accelerating adoption begins now.

r/CryptoCurrencySee Post

Anybody else growing increasingly tired and frustrated with the traditional finance system?

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! February 10, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network! ⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

Report on my findings from BISQ and DD on non-KYC bitcoin sold at a premium to KYC bitcoin

r/BitcoinSee Post

Hey yall, I built a full node! This video is a walkthrough for newbs by a newb on how to build a bitcoin/LN node and get it set it up with umbrel. The process is surprisingly easy... Hope yall find it useful; cheers!

r/CryptoCurrencySee Post

It hit me like a lightning bolt: Bitcoin is truly egalitarian and a universal solution. Watch billionaires get equally excited as me and my poor friends in a 3rd world country for buying a taco with Bitcoin using LN.

r/BitcoinSee Post

It hit me like a lightning bolt: Bitcoin is truly egalitarian and a universal solution. Watch billionaires get equally excited as me and my poor friends in a 3rd world country for buying a taco with Bitcoin using LN.

r/BitcoinSee Post

Do I need two devices to run a BTC and a LN node?

r/BitcoinSee Post

LN and numerous small payouts

r/BitcoinSee Post

El Salvador Libertad! 🌋 And no, these are NOT just bonds.

r/CryptoCurrencySee Post

TIL that even Bitcoin has a higher TVL than Cardano

r/CryptoCurrencySee Post

TIL that Bitcoin has a higher TVL than Cardano

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! February 03, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

I'm new to Bitcoin and really want to use it but have a few questions...

r/CryptoCurrencySee Post

Bitcoin is the best cryptocurrency.

r/BitcoinSee Post

Bitcoin + Blood = LN growth

r/BitcoinSee Post

The next frontier: Custody will be permanently solved with OP_CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY and sub-dermal (injectible) NFC wallets

r/BitcoinSee Post

I’m willing to spend btc iff I can easily convert my newly earned fiat into btc without taking a huge spread and transaction fee.

r/BitcoinSee Post

How to you keep sales honest with the Lightning network?

r/CryptoCurrencySee Post

Is Bitcoin really going to maintain its status as digital gold?

r/CryptoCurrencySee Post

Anyone in favor of digital gold on Ethereum as opposed to Bitcoin?

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! January 27, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

Mentions

Doing the same. I have my hodl stash I don't touch, but I also have a LN node with Bitcoin to spend and I try to use that whenever I can.

Mentions:#LN

Yeah, as I said, the same shitty scaling approach as BTC. LN is over engineered ruby goldberg nightmare machine. Have you seen how many semi custodial solutions there are? Basically every wallet have invented some shitty super complicated custodial workaround to open channels.

Mentions:#BTC#LN

For every bitcoin maxi calling for the death of shitcoins via securities law, there's an ESG treehugger calling for the outright ban of PoW. The best approach is to fight tooth and nail for the entire industry. Shitcoin regulation IS a slippery slope and at the very least, protocols built on LN will become subject to retarded laws and hamper their growth.

Mentions:#ESG#LN

It's cool man, I'm more than open to discussion about coins that have potential to actually be used and spent. Yep, BTC, BTCLN and ETH are dead payment gateways on my stores these days. My coin of choice is BCH. BCH and LTC are the most spent coins with me in 2022, but I don't like the LTC project much, it's a carbon copy of BTC and if it ever got a huge price increase, they would also move over to LN/sidechains.. it works well now and has 4x the capacity by design than BTC but ultimately it would have the same fate if popular and expensive. Also the community don;t seem intereset much in merhcnat opinions or views. XMR is my second choice, but it is kinda clunky, with the bonus of great privacy.. running an XMR node uses a huge amount of resources compared to other coins, and without using a third party payment processor it is much harder to integrate as a payment option on a store. When selling legal products it's kinda overkill IMHO.

Just reading your first link, it's obviously NOT true. They're alleging Strike doesn't use the LN, or even BTC, at all!! They're saying that it's all on an SQL backend, yadda yadda.... and the BTC cannot be withdrawn, and therefore it cannot be traced. Except, for the fact that, it \*can\* be traced!! You can buy some BTC on Strike and then withdraw it to a BTC wallet on the main chain FOR FREE!!! I'll have to stop there, as that was already a huge waste of time. Thanks for that.

Mentions:#LN#BTC#FREE

Maybe. I've actually been considering removing BTC and BTC LN options from my existing stores, and no longer add it to new projects, because since 2017 barely anybody spends it with me, in 2022 it's only around 5% of my total crypto income, even with an LN option. In the main bitcoin sub the majority of people are not interested in spending it any longer, but <2017 it was actually the only coin I had listed as a crypto option. but as long as all these coins have at least some value, even if it is below £0.01, it is still useful to me and any other merchants. Coins I'm currently accepting are BTC, BTCLN, BCH, LTC, DASH, XMR, DOGE, ETH and VTC. ETH is also useless now as p2p cash but around 2018 a lot of people were spending it with me.

LN is just as decentralized as Bitcoin, plus it allows for both throughput \*and\* privacy, as only the sending & receiving nodes know who the sender & recipient are. PoW is great for a First Layer. Smart Contracts & coffee money don't \*need\* to be on the 1st Layer, and in fact, it's better if they aren't. Layers, layers, layers. Bitcoin is just the FIRST Layer.

Mentions:#LN

LN is a red herring, almost all solutions and services on it a custodial

Mentions:#LN

>If you use bitcoin to pay for a $3 coffee, for example, but that same share of bitcoin is worth $30 a week later, you would have lost $27 on a $3 transaction. I laughed so hard when I read that. This may have to be the worst illustration of why Bitcoin is bad as a currency. That may have been one of the dumbest thing I've seen someone write. Seriously, who do they hire to write this stuff? There's so many better argument about Bitcoin not being that great for everyday payment. Like sometimes fees being high, network being slow if you don't use things like LN. This sounds like something written by someone who has no understanding about basic budget. If I get paid in Bitcoin, or I'm sitting on a monthly Bitcoin budget, just because the value of Bitcoin goes up the next month, doesn't mean that I should stop paying for my rent, and stop buying food. I have to pay for my rent, bills, and food either way. No matter the form of payment. It's already in my budget. If I have money left I can invest, then yea, I should hang on to it and reap the benefits. But if I was gonna buy that coffee either way, the fact that I didn't put those $3 into Tesla a couple years ago instead of buying that coffee at the time, doesn't mean I lost $20 lol. Where is this guy's article telling everyone they should have bought stocks instead of buying their coffee.

Mentions:#LN

Eww.... Are you familiar with the throughput of BTC over the LN versus BCH ?

Mentions:#BTC#LN#BCH

This might be good for something like OpenSea yes. It's deadly for everything else though because as a security, shareholders/tokenholders have legal ownership. The easy money that DAO's, devs, and VC's are accustomed to goes away. Oversight is amplified. The space is going to lose quite a bit of talent which goes to where the money is, which I believe will be the applications and real businesses built over the LN. Then there's the issue that the facade of *decentralization* is gone. Blockchain technology really has zero value without this. They are slow, expensive, and difficult to maintain things. Centralization makes things hyper fast, cheap, and efficient.

Mentions:#DAO#LN

I never said ETH or alts were unusable abroad or even the US, I'm just saying they require stablecoins and robust exchange support to give them value. Bitcoin was born long before exchanges and stablecoins. So when the rest of the world uses these unregistered securities, I'm not certain they'll be worth much. And if they're not worth a whole lot, lose their liquidity, and won't pump, devs leave, DAO's weaken, security erodes, and protocols go zombie. Rat kings take things over. Everyone packs up like gypsies and goes to where the money is. Most recently that's been NFT jpegs. Before that it was DeFi middleware. Before that it was ICO vaporware. You'd assume that next it would be web3 or the meta verse, but when those terms are vaporware themselves... Eventually they all end up developing on the LN because that will be where the money is.

Mentions:#ETH#DAO#LN

I've used the LN at plenty of point-of-service terminals in the real world and it's quite fast. Plenty of work yet to do though. Still too many failed payments that have to get re-tried. More nodes, liquidity, and solutions like Pickhardt Payments will solve this. Still not living in a Taproot world either. Quite young. It's all coming together though. Amazing to see.

Mentions:#LN

And what did that do besides Schnorr? BCH had Schnorr for 1,2? years already. And how many tps does BTC have no after Taproot? They rely on LN to scale and that is objectively a big mess.

Mentions:#BCH#BTC#LN

Lightning Network: speed of light, .0004¢, instant settlement. Try untethering your head from 2019. All those mainstream talking points are well behind us. We're already at the point we have offline payments with LNURL. And have NFC LN debit cards proliferating that can be synced to non-custodial wallets. Try keeping up. When your unregistered securities conspire to remove you of your paper value, bitcoin will be waiting. You'll be using it and won't even know.

Mentions:#LN

They already are, because of the robust shitcoin market. You're reiterating my point. Bitcoin isn't particularly profitable for them by comparison. I'd suggest you read Coinbase's 10-k's. This is partly why many refuse to integrate the LN, it erodes their BTC margins FURTHER. Then there's the issue of regulation. Most will be designated securities (SEC chair just met with FTC on Wed and said just that), and reiterated BTC is NOT a security. They're meeting with exchanges already and preparing them. So like I said, there is bitcoin, then there is crypto. One is a scam going to effectively zero, the other is separating money from State.

Mentions:#LN#BTC#FTC

An overabundance of free non-custodial wallets--too many to list. Free e-commerce software and payment processors like BTCPayserver. Networks like the LN which make transactions effectively free (.0004¢ average). Node software applications. Multisig setups. LN debit cards (NFC) like Boltcard or Satscard, mining pools, DEX's, submarine swaps... Bitcoin the network is now starting to unleash its open source fucking hell on the world where the technology surrounding it trends towards its cost of production as information--which is close to ZERO, or trends towards product proliferation, both of which are a race to the bottom basically. This makes it inclusive for the entire planet. Block is working on an open source ASIC, and an open source DEX, and most hardware wallets have open source software. I'd say yes, bitcoin is inevitable, because people haven't figured out yet that mining, the part of the network tethered to the physical world, will do the same for energy. It's posts like this that start to bring out my confidence and feed my decent into Dark Maximalism against those who would stand in bitcoin's way. I've avoided 4chan heretofore though.

Mentions:#LN#DEX#ZERO

No problem, if you'd like reading about LN the first few chapters of [the part 1 of Mastering Lightning Network](https://github.com/lnbook/lnbook#part-1) are pretty accessible to everyone and the book is free/open-source.

Mentions:#LN

Without shitcoins what do an exchange's profits look like? With the LN fully implemented, what do an exchange's bitcoin margins look like? Exchanges don't have a business without all the shitcoin staking, validators, endless trading fees, backdoor deals, and stablecoin grease. Bitcoin is open source hell for exchanges, because over time, the technology surrounding bitcoin trends towards its cost of production as information--which is close to zero. We now have an overabundance of free non-custodial wallets, multisig, the LN, node software, free e-commerce platforms like BTCPayserver. We're now getting LN debit cards (NFC) all over like Bolt Card and Satscard, etc. This doesn't help exchanges and their partners, because it's a race to zero. Mining will eventually do the same with energy imo.

Mentions:#LN

Bitcoin as a world reserve asset dear u/Salt-Traffic59 means it'll be used by governments, businesses, and charities as much as it will by individuals. There will be plenty of centralized entities trying to exploit it, Block however, looks to set an early precedent for them all with open source everything (ASIC, Hard Wallet, DEX, etc). This is really important, like the battle for the internet once it started catching on in the late 80s. Unfortunately though, Cisco, Microsoft, et al, drew first blood, and decided software licenses and protected IP were better than open source. Bitcoin is a little different of course, but what's cool about it is that the technology surrounding it will always trend towards its cost of production as information--which is close to zero. That's how we get an over abundance of free software wallets, the LN, etc. So trying to build a shareholder environment around BTC doesn't actually work over the longterm, unless you are actively providing value for the network (mining, silicon, energy, hardware wallets, node software, nodes, DEX, etc), instead of trying to exploit the deflation of the money. I think Jack and Block are important. What say you about this argument?

Mentions:#DEX#LN#BTC

Yeah this is known as "slashing" in PoS. But it is not just a matter between two nodes like it is on LN. So as I said it is kinda similar as you can get punished for not behaving as expected, but it stops there for the comparison, Bitcoin's blockchain remains the source of immutable truth for every Bitcoin node, no matter how much fund they "allocate" on LN.

Mentions:#LN

At the scale of a channel between two people you could draw some parallels, I suppose you mean the "slashing" of funds for bad actors in PoS. But really the parties just rely the Bitcoin blockchain to check if the channel is still open and their history of states to know the current liquidity in a channel. This is why having a reliable Bitcoin node for your LN node is important. LN nodes gossip those payment channels with each other to have a graph of the LN around them in order to have an idea where they can/should route payments when needed.

Mentions:#LN

Both parties in a LN channel update its balances (on each side) and have at each step a transaction they can broadcast on Bitcoin to close the channel if the want. They usually won't do it as it's cheaper to keep transacting on LN, but this mutual "check" makes it that previous states won't be broadcasted. If they do broadcast an old state to close the channel, the other party can broadcast a punishment transaction (proving a more recent state exists, signed by both parties) on Bitcoin too and get the whole balance back. This kind of "threat" on both ends keeps everyone honest in general. (All of this assume the current channel mechanism known as Poon-Dryja channel, other mechanism will eventually be implemented)

Mentions:#LN

Just FYI, AFAIK Muun wallet is not a real lightning wallet (such as Phoenix or Breez). Muun is actually an on-chain wallet that does instant submarine swaps to do LN transactions. So you coins in Muun are already on-chain, not in a LN channel.

Mentions:#LN

As a vendor, we don't use lightning network because you need to do 1 of the following 1) trust someone with your coins / payment processing 2) know how to build payment processing solution yourself. Most non-custodial BTC payment processing solutions monitor the Block explorer and update your POS system, without touching your coins. Since there is no block explorer for LN, you have to trust someone or be a developer yourself. If you know of a non-custodial lightning network solution for Woocommerce, I'm open to it though

Mentions:#BTC#POS#LN

Woosh you've missed my entire point. It doesn't make sense to compare BCH to VISA without comparing BCH to the blockchain VISA is using..... Of course VISA is permissioned. The tech VISA is using **isn't** permissioned, non custodial, or even centralized. If you want to compare BCH to *a business* of course one is custodial and the other isn't. You can't do the same things using both though so it's a dumb thing to compare. It's like saying my garage sale is going to overtake Amazon because I don't ask for a login, like what that's not what we're talking about. If you're purposing BCH can overtake VISA then at least compare the tech not *your* access to it. Comparing tech it's cheaper and faster to use Ethereum than BCH. If you want access to cheap payments *without a physical card* (ie no longer competing with VISA) you would use an L2 instead. **If BCH has physical cards and can compete with VISA in a noncustodial way I'd like to hear it. ** What do you have to 'give up' to use an L2? Let's pick a real one, Arbitirium as an example, because I agree with you LN is wack. Same trust and security assumptions only now my data is compressed, I've given *nothing* up to save 99% on fees. The L2 is paying the L1 for blockspace so as fees grow larger (necessary for a sustainable security budget without inflation) individual fees shrink smaller. POS doesn't *scale* Ethereum. It reduces the *energy consumption* required to maintain security and not a thing more. L2's scale Ethereum and run on POW currently. BCH takes 3000 or 9000 block confirmations to settle because of how unsecure it is. That's like a 1-2 month wait to move from a CEX to wallet.. It's not realistic to use in almost any circumstance *especially* for payments. I don't know why comparing it to VISA was even purposed - if you're going to do that at least be honest with a direct comparison.

You're just spreading FUD without much of an understanding of LN capabilities. Why do you assume that OP didn't set this deli up responsibly?

Mentions:#FUD#LN#OP

It's a hard one for me with LTC, on one hand I like it right now as it is massively used as a payment coin and is about 40% of my crypto income currently, at the start of 2018 it was about 90% of my crypto income for a while but at that point I only had BTC, ETH, and BCH added.. BCH was so new, most people knew of LTC and used that mostly. but last year BCH caught up with it and they are almost neck to neck for what people pay me in now. What I don't like about LTC is it follows the same development plan as BTC, which includes LN. For now we don't need it, but many years down the line, if the price gets much higher, the fees will become too much, they are already quite a bit higher than BCH, and instead of trying to scale on chain, they will just start using LN which I'm not a massive fan of (though do have it as an option for BTC), but hardly anybody uses it and I need to run an extra server just to accept it. Also I don't really like the community much, it seems to be populated more by investor types that want to see the price rise loads, rather than being mainly focused in peer to peer cash use. It's hard work being a merchant that accepts many coins, very few communities value my opinion and I get a lot of toxicity towards me because I'm not "all in" on one coin. The only communities where I really fit in are BCH and XMR sadly.

I've been running a BTCPay server for a few years. There is an invoicing and record keeping component to the software. You can also link to an exchange and automate conversion to fiat at the time of the sale. You should look into LN more instead of just saying it doesn't work.

Mentions:#LN

How could you do this if your coins are already in your HW wallet? Can you back them out, then back in, with LN and Muun (or other LM wallet) and get sane results? Would you also need a new hw wallet and seed?

Mentions:#LN

Avoiding KYC to on ramp is very difficult at best if not near impossible. Even when it can be done such as with local bitcoins (I think local bitcoins do kyc now though) or similar sites or with BTC ATMs you are usually paying a premium for your coins. The best thing you can do is have a KYCd on ramp (I'm from Europe so I use swissborg) and mix your txs onchain with multiple wallets or put your coins on LN then transfer to a secondary wallet and remove them from LN onto your main wallet. Also check out [kycnot.me](http://kycnot.me) if you're determined to find a non kyc onramp.

Mentions:#BTC#LN

It is true that LN isn't explicitly centralized, but due to its features it will tend to be centralized in practice. The cost to onboard means that large entities (banks and large corporations) will have incentive to provide custodial wallets and people will choose that over the hassle and expense of using their own wallets. Imagine the scenario where you try to buy something from Walmart (for example) when you don't yet have a wallet. You can download a wallet to your phone, being unsure if it is safe and costing you around $5 just to create your account, or you can use the WalmartWallet for free. You know the WalmartWallet will work just fine with Walmart and likely anyone else and you can trust that if anything goes wrong you can at least eventually get some help. This sort of thing will be compounded by eventual transaction fees (small as they may be) for routing, and highly connected nodes will tend to get preferred. Think about what sort of entities will already have a ton of monetary connection - banks, large corporations, etc. Those of us who understand why cryptocurrency was invented will prefer a little cost and hassle to get freedom, but the masses don't know and don't care. They'll just go with whatever is easy, and the banksters will offer that. And that is my thesis as to why LN is centralizing.

Mentions:#LN

Yes this enough unless you are operating outside the law (laundering for a cartel, moving hacked funds, avoiding sanctions). In that case you'll need a lot more (your own node, LN submarine swap, conjoin, then DEX).

Mentions:#LN#DEX

No, Taproot addresses make transactions on L1 and L2 indistinguishable, which is not the case currently. When it is, you can see how ridiculously hard things get because now you have two layers exporting one another strengths to work through, more volume, and who knows what type of submarine swaps, coinjoins, DLC's, and utxo sharing that increase the data set exponentially. Then the more people that use the LN and channels makes it worse for blockchain forensics. The cost of blockchain forensics (required by insurance as much as governments) on exchanges will become quite expensive, less effective, and the more exchanges try to encroach, the more robust the open source machine becomes, spitting out better non-custodial solutions. Point is, that in a circular economy where enough goods and services are sold in bitcoin so exchanges are no longer necessary, the vector of attack for blockchain forensics (exchange KYC), combined with billions joining the network, and the LN, hardens the privacy considerably.

Mentions:#DLC#LN

An FYI: Block is the most important centralized ally in the bitcoin space that we have. Full stop. I believe they already possess the absolute best do-it-all financial app in the world (CashApp) by a mile, which has all the licenses, a massive network effect, is bitcoin only in the crypto space, integrated the LN before anyone, have stocks and partial stocks you can buy/send, include a bank account, have Cashtags, tax software. Rumor is they'll integrate with Square by levering BTCPayserver, LNURL, hard wallets, third party NFC debit cards (like Bolt Card), along with an \[optional\] mining pool for their open-source ASIC, will design their own app for nodes, and have a secret project that TBD is working on. This is a company I want to own shares in, trust, and I believe deserves the full backing of the bitcoin community, from maxi to pleb.

Mentions:#LN

Yes it is. Don't listen to what others tell you. The burden of proof (legally) to prove those utxo's belong to you is impossible without access to an xpub on a device you own, or direct access to the wallet itself. This is why it usually takes years to find and charge hackers, even after they've \[foolishly\] used a KYC exchange; but they didn't have the LN at the time which is incredibly private. When we live in a Taproot world, blockchain forensics won't be nearly as effective.

Mentions:#LN

The number of people who are sleeping on or purpose fully ignoring Lightning is staggering. I can't believe how many idiotic comments I've seen on BTC scaling/# of transactions that completely leave out LN. LN is a complete game changer it's own right. Just being able to build on lightning is huge. You can't build something on the visa/Mc network. You might be able to accept it but actually building on it is completely different. People don't get that triple layer accounting is the biggest accounting (the world runs on ledgers) innovation in thousands of years. People don't get that instant settlement is huge. When you swipe your card it can be a month before the vendor gets it's money normally. And has 2-3% of the sale taken out of it. People don't understand how big cutting out all the middlemen and ignoring jurisdictional red tape is. Western Union has to get banking licensing/legal teams and so on for every last country it operates in. Anyone wondering about LN and btc as money should check out Jack Mallers at the BTC 2022 conference explaining how sending money and settlement traditionally works.

Mentions:#BTC#LN

Everything you mentioned is custodial. Flexa - custodial Strike - custodial Visa - of course custodial >People can use L2 on either to send payments cheaper than a BCH transaction without giving up custody. L2s have their use case but you also give something up if you rely on them. LN for example is a mess, almost all wallets are semi or fully custodial to work around the problems. ETH will go PoS to scale, which has its own drawbacks so I do not consider it for sound money. That is the reason why Big blockers forked. There is nothing like self custodial on chain PoW transaction. And BCH is king in that category.

Mentions:#BCH#LN#ETH

Finally unsubbed from /r/cryptocurrency. The amount of people that hate and have 0 knowledge of bitcoin is crazy. They forgot what started it all. They really think amp is going to replace the LN, meanwhile it got dropped by like a dozen companies. A lot of them remind me of buttcoiners in that when they lay out the flaws in bitcoin they conveniently forget about LN, probably because it would negate their whole argument. Someone made a thread yesterday in r/cc asking why buttcoiners love to see us lose money and the buttcoiners took it as an invitation to comment and regurgitate their buttcoin talking points.....and the idiots in r/cc ate it up lol. All the buttcoiners had +200 upvotes and everyone in the sub was agreeing with them. I've never seen such weak willed spineless cowards in my entire life. So yea I unsubbed because I know that shit will never fly here. The only investment I will ever spend money on in my entire life from here on out is bitcoin.

Mentions:#LN

They are using strike, so there aren't any for the deli. It sounds like they will instantly convert to fiat and simply use LN as a way to transmit value for virtually no fee.

Mentions:#LN

In it's current state and price range yes it is. This wouldn't be the case if it got big though with a high price, take a look at how the fees and scaling system works. But can confirm, even with LN option, it is used more than BTC on my stores in 2022. BCH and XMR are the best options, DASH is not bad either... a lot of people pay me in LTC though it has the same path plan as BTC and is only good in it's current low price state without needing a side chain, though still 4x better than BTC... If privacy is not a concern BCH wins hands down, next XMR if privacy is needed.

lmaoo back at you. Divide it all you want, still doesn't work as a currency. LN? What are you referring to? Lightning Network? Good luck.

Mentions:#LN

I love this. I’m still confused about business taxes and Bitcoin tho. How does this work? Anyone own a small business and is running the LN?

Mentions:#LN

lmaoo. I hope you know the world can run on 1 bitcoin because it's divisible by eight decimal places, LN can divide it even more.

Mentions:#LN

Noob, have you ever heard about LN?

Mentions:#LN

Exactly. Lightning, no thanks. LN is still, after all those years, barely working. I prefer onchain any time.

Mentions:#LN

Did you recommend an exchange that supports deposits via LN?

Mentions:#LN

Also the whole point of coinjoin and wasabi is to privatize long term holdings and use Bitcoin p2p, not to go back to an exchange with those SATs. Keep em private after you pay SATs you make them private. Then put them to use or burry them into lightning network liquidity. Completely breaking the chain after a while when you close the LN channel.

Mentions:#LN

LN already onion routes by default, and signature aggregation makes it cheaper to mix coins than to not.

Mentions:#LN

But LN is throttled by the on/off ramp. Imagine a super simple scenario where each person only does two transactions to the layer 1 chain. Creating one channel then some day closing one channel (this would imply there is one mega node in the middle that acts as a connected node, connecting everyone.) It would take about a year for 100,000,000 people to get into LN with the layer 1 doing nothing else but opening and closing channels. It is like building a 100,000 lane free way that has a single on/off ramp that is a one lane wide. The scenario I built also effectively has a single player everyone must work with, so is insanely centralised and they could charge massive fees to use them to connect unlinked pairs. So obviously, people are going to open more than one channel, also, people would need to do more layer 1 interaction if they want to top up their accounts.

Mentions:#LN

I highly recommend you to read at least Part 1 of [Mastering the Lightning Network](https://github.com/lnbook/lnbook). It's a not too much technical explanation of the LN and I think it could answer all your questions.

Mentions:#LN

Am i able to receive a payment trhough LN if im on a watch only electrum wallet? Or it only works if im online on a not watch only?

Mentions:#LN

There is a centralized element to LN. However, it's very distributed. Run by individuals. And not a centralized entity, like visa. Due to the layer 1 decentralized nature. Anyone can invent a new and better LN. It's very likely we will se many competing layer 2 and 3 tech built on the Bitcoin blockchain.

Mentions:#LN

>I can already send bitcoin around the word instantly and for practically 0 fees you can trade all the principals that BTC was built on to do this with a centralized service like stripe or LN yes. >Ripple (and thus XRP) can be sued. Bitcoin cannot Ripple =/= XRP. If I sue bitmain, am I suing BTC? clearly not yet you apply the same incorrect logic to Ripple and XRP.

Mentions:#BTC#LN#XRP

He said he estimated it was 2000 ppm (0.2%), so 120,000 sats. Definitely could be done cheaper on chain, but still pretty damn cheap for that size of a transaction. This is much bigger than you think. LN currently relies a lot on higher fee mega-routers to have the liquidity available even for smaller payments. I see payments fail to route through my smaller low-fee node every day in the 500k-1m sat range. If payments are able to split up and find multiple smaller cheaper routes it will reduce fees for the payment and reduce our reliance on these larger centralized hubs. They may even have to consider bringing their fees down in order to compete.

Mentions:#LN

Fees will always be basically free. It'll always be a race to the bottom. This is why Coinbase and legacy payment systems despise the LN. There are also plenty of Maxi's like myself who set their node's routing fees to ZERO.

Mentions:#LN#ZERO

The point is that L2 is greatly improving the per-transaction efficiency, not that the total energy usage is lower with LN

Mentions:#LN

Just got Strike too with LN so... trying to use it for paying friends back etc or when I take their money disc golfing

Mentions:#LN

I see. TBH I don't follow BTC dev much these days, it's basically a dead coin as far as I'm concerned. Hardly anybody spends it with me now days even with an LN option, I'm at the point now where I'm not adding it to new projects and will probably start removing it from older projects as well soon. I feel like I'm being hypocritical now supporting a coin that fucked me over after promoting it for so many years, and have given it another half a decades chance, with no signs of anything improving as far as people actually spending it much again. BTC/LN is only around 5% of my total crypto income now and I need to run a whole extra server to accept LN, yet it is the least used payment method on my projects. The signalling via pool for Taproot wasn't for BTC, it was for a software fork of Bitcoin Core called Vertcoin, we actually had it activated before BTC. It's not really a project I'm invested in though TBH, it was just a good live testnet for me learning how to setup a pool, I have enough hashrate on my own to find many blocks on that chain.

Mentions:#BTC#LN

Now this is the shit we need! Huge! Expanded LN transaction size makes LN significantly more usable for payments….payments you’d traditionally need ‘BaNk ApProVAl’ before sending.

Mentions:#LN

I wonder if eventually fees would pay as much as a reasonable bank deposit interest? I can see people risking their BTC on nodes now to contribute to the development/liquidity of the network but if the LN is going to be used for payments, people will need to keep most of their BTC on the LN to keep it liquid and avoid future base layer access delays. Will people will be incentivised to "deposit" their BTC on nodes and get returns that are propotionate to the risk? I have an Umbrel node with LN and haven't set up funded channels yet but admittedly have not put much time into it.

Mentions:#BTC#LN

I'd be interested in the fees. They must've paid a lot for that payment. Fees on LN are always proportional to the amount sent and are variable quite a lot. Therefore, any larger amounts are much cheaper on-chain, where the fee is fixed. So, technologically it's great progress, but I doubt its practical application.

Mentions:#LN

That is rapidly changing. The largest Point of Sale retailer just announced it integrated LN (shopify also announced it same day as a tiny sidenote)side note. Meaning walmart, home depot, chipotle, safeway, and nearly every chain you can think of will shortly be accepting btc. Also other countries are ahead of the US as far as payment acceptance. The amount of announcements for acceptance has been staggering in the last year if you are paying attention.

Mentions:#LN

That is rapidly changing. The largest Point of Sale retailer just announced it integrated LN (shopify also announced it same day as a tiny sidenote)side note. Meaning walmart, home depot, chipotle, safeway, and nearly every chain you can think of will shortly be accepting btc. Also other countries are ahead of the US as far as payment acceptance.

Mentions:#LN

tldr; CoinCorner's Bolt Card allows Bitcoin enthusiasts to pay for goods and services using contactless technology. A data analyst at CoinCorner took the card on a trial run on the Isle of Man, a British Crown dependency in the Irish Sea. In total, he paid for 20 breakfasts, lunches, drinks and snacks using the LN. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*

Mentions:#LN#DYOR

I mean this is for situations when you don't want to use yor phone. Otherwise you could directly scan the QR code of the LN invoice.

Mentions:#LN

I was wondering this too. What if you could connect the card to your LN wallet on your phone and when you scan the card a popup appears on your phone stating the sats being moved that you approve with one touch? Seems like you could quickly verify the payment details and void scanning/messing around with a phone app which so many people seem to have trouble with.

Mentions:#LN

Woah. I was just commenting the other day about how we need something to carry around and make LN payments easy that isn't a smartphone.

Mentions:#LN

Totally, I'm not saying we need to scale on chain now, or that we are certain to need to do it at any point in my lifetime, I just don't feel it's quite right to say (not that you directly did, but others certainly have) that LN solves all problems. Even if just China alone use LN, and nobody else uses bitcoin at all, there is only enough onchain capacity for everyone to open OR close 1.2 LN channels per year *assuming maximum batching*, which lets face it, isn't realistic. It might be 100 years before we reach that level of utilisation, but at some point we (hopefully) will reach it, and we need to be aware there's a good chance we will need to scale on chain capacity at some point. We totally have other priorities right now, I mean tx fees are really (probably unhealthily) low recently anyway, I just think there will come a time where we need to do something to scale the onchain capacity. Dynamic blocksizes would indeed make sense.

Mentions:#LN

So I have couple questions. Is the card just a 2FA for a lightning wallet or is the card the wallet itself? How decentralised is LN channel in the app? Or do you connect your own node or something? Does the app let you store both fiat and BTC? Can any merchant accept this or will they need to go out of their way to set up something to accept payments from the card?

Mentions:#LN#BTC

Ah I see, well if everyone ran a node and opened as many channels as they could to people not organisations that would help I think. But yes as I don't want to/can't provide large amounts of liquidity on multiple channels this will have to do for now. As far as I know routing through the LN goes via the most optimal path so no one can force traffic though their node or block traffic through it, but I might be wrong there? Maybe this is a shit apology but in the very early days of bitcoin it must have been secured through a very small number of miners, so each of them had more of a capacity to act maliciously, however it grew as no one can stop anyone else securing the network. Hopefully the more LN nodes that are run with many channels it will be more decentralised? Layer 2 solutions all seem to sway towards centralisation or direct channels. Decentralisation is slow, centralised systems are fast, I don't want to compromise in between , I'd love a very fast completely decentralised protocol but we ain't there yet. I'm not clever enough to know how it will be achieved but anyone can propose a way of doing it if they create one.

Mentions:#LN

If it hasn’t already happened, some very smart people will figure out a non-custodial way of getting new users into LN without having to perform on-chain transactions.

Mentions:#LN

I immediately checked it out - because I want to be able to use BTC / LN conveniently IRL . However I found an absolute paucity of info on locations where it can be used (unless you live on the Isle of Man - I don't). I realise this is not your problem as it needs merchant demand pull. However if/when you integrate in common Payment terminals I will be buying very soon. Will strike get to Europe before you do that - who knows ? Game on

Mentions:#BTC#LN

>satoshidisk.com That one is not LN I think.

Mentions:#LN

Do it then. Why is nobody using smart contracts on bitcoin? Where are the developers? Where are the dapps? It's been years...... Not a single dapp? Is there ANYTHING at all being built on Bitcoin? I'd love to know.. Where is the Bitcoin LN DEX? I thought lightning network was fast? People still haven't figured out how to build a Dex yet? Or have I just never heard of it?

Mentions:#LN#DEX

Doesn't BTC + LN solve the problem? How is revisiting the blockwars an improvement?

Mentions:#BTC#LN

Then you've never used LN lol

Mentions:#LN

We're already there with BTC/LN. The exchanges and their customers can go broke trying.

Mentions:#BTC#LN

I see this blooming a new version of Only fans: BTC LN edition.

Mentions:#BTC#LN

Good point!! You obviously don't put your retirement on the LN, but even a weekly or monthly spending limit on a LN card line this should still have some extra layer of security.

Mentions:#LN

But aren't the miners from L1 still operating, with or without the LN?

Mentions:#LN

That's why this comparison between LN and Visa isn't wrong.

Mentions:#LN

And LN is a higher layer on top of BTCs financial system. LN doesnt solve the energy consumption of the base layer's security needs. Just like Visa doesnt solve the problems of the underlying banking system. They both just increase convenience for end users while brushing past the problems of layer 1.

Mentions:#LN

Using LN is as simple as using an app on your phone.

Mentions:#LN

Lot of nefarious stuff and bad actors on Reddit. I really like the idea of paying sats via LN to participate in social media. It would create a cost for all the disinformation / shills / trolls and I’d gladly pay a few dollars a month to clean up the trash from forums.

Mentions:#LN

I mean, I've used Bitcoin when it was like $300, I know how it works. I just don't think it can possibly be competitive (especially on efficiency). Like, let's say BTC+LN becomes basically like WeChat in China as far as payments go, at every store you can scan a QR and press a button, super easy. All a competitor has to do in order to beat BTC's fees and processing time is rent a server cluster. The user experience can be identical. Basically VISA but with less prudes at the helm, and maybe if they're fancy they'll use zero-knowledge crypto. Maybe in the future we figure out nuclear fusion and have a ton of use-it-or-lose-it energy, at that point the energy tradeoffs are probably fine and worthwhile.

Mentions: