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Just an inspiration for the Halloween this year. Any paper wallet, BoltCard, OpenDime, SatsCard, etc. will do. Don't forget to leave some instructions and a link to an open source, NON custodial LN wallet.

r/BitcoinSee Post

How can I convert Bitcoin on Lightning Network to mainnet?

r/BitcoinSee Post

The problem with Bitcoin == throughput.

r/BitcoinSee Post

Bitcoin Conference Amsterdam ticket

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! September 29, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

Bitcoin Optech Newsletter #219: LN fee ratecards, testing soft forks on signet, CLN v0.12.1, Bitcoin Core v24.0rc1

r/BitcoinSee Post

(how) Can a BTC/LN company apply the travel rule?

Selling my avatar for 1 BTC

r/BitcoinSee Post

Lightning Network’s Biggest Flaws

r/BitcoinSee Post

Free sats on LN arcadecity

r/BitcoinSee Post

Using Lightning Question

r/BitcoinSee Post

1 Bit = 1 Buck

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! September 22, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

Will BTC showed in my non-LN wallet as well if I receive with a LN-compatible wallet using the same recover phase(private key)?

r/BitcoinSee Post

The content monetization via LN wave is here - Marty Bent

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! September 15, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

Forefront of BTC & LN acceptance for an online store?

r/BitcoinSee Post

Bitcoin Paywall with LN in React

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! September 08, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

Is lightning network Geography specific? Is there any advantage for a LN operator to run a node in a country that has very less number of nodes?

r/BitcoinSee Post

What are the best sources to stay up to date with the building of Bitcoin?

r/BitcoinSee Post

You can now stack sats on LN while listening to any podcast you want.

r/CryptoCurrencySee Post

Nike is now selling their physical shoes with accompanying tokens on-chain. The implications from this going forward will be massive.

r/CryptoCurrencySee Post

Nike is now selling their physical shoes with accompanying NFTs on-chain. The implications from this going forward will be massive.

r/BitcoinSee Post

Meet the New Boss, Same As the Old Boss

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! September 01, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

What stops LN from eventually becoming centralized?

r/BitcoinSee Post

Running Lightning on Dappnode

r/CryptoCurrencySee Post

Is the Lightning Network overly complex compared to other scaling solutions?

r/BitcoinSee Post

Looking for a free way of exchanging between onchain and LN (BTC)?. I found it.

r/CryptoCurrencySee Post

Looking for a free way of exchanging between onchain and LN (BTC)? Spoiler: I found it.

r/BitcoinSee Post

BTC-LN vs VISA

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! August 25, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! August 18, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

I'm thinking of running a LN node but I can't seem to find a good source on tax implications of running a node. I find a lot of stuff on how transactions should be taxed, which is as uncertain as it can be. So anyone actively running a node, is tax accounting pretty easy for running a node?

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! August 11, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

LN Bitcoin now accepted in multiple locations across Boracay, Philippines!

r/BitcoinSee Post

LN fee increases?

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! August 04, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

Lightning Network competitor?

r/BitcoinSee Post

Concerns with Lightning Network

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! July 28, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

Can we lower the minrelaytxfee parameter now?

r/BitcoinSee Post

Do you think Bitcoin will replace cloud computing? Surely the hashrate has more computing power than Google's cloud computing service. I also read layer 3 RGB Protocol will make it happen

r/BitcoinSee Post

Reality feat. Jack Mallers: merchants realize a 99.67% cost savings on transactions when using LN + Strike’s API & merchants get instant access to dollars where they have to wait 15-30 days when using legacy intermediaries… the bitcoin stack will absorb all payment networks in time.

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! July 21, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

Already reading Bitcoin Magazine? Get paid for it!

r/BitcoinSee Post

Bachelor Thesis Help (Lightning Network). Please Share sources/knowledge. Thank you

r/BitcoinSee Post

I'm not a complete newbie but someone set me straight with wallets

r/BitcoinSee Post

LN is amazing.

r/BitcoinSee Post

LN fixes this: "UK lawmakers tell Visa and Mastercard to justify fee rises" | Reuters

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! July 14, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

Questions about using Bitcoin / Lightning Network for everyday purchases across many different merchants

r/BitcoinSee Post

How does lightning work fees-wise?

r/CryptoCurrencySee Post

Lightning Network input ⚡⚡⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

SLP391 Ben Carman – Bitcoin Privacy, Surveillance, LN Vortex, P2P & Austin BitDevs

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! July 07, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

OpenNode has been seriously busy helping integrate and utilize LN

r/BitcoinSee Post

Strike payments and tax implications

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! June 30, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

Real world Use seems closer then imagined as digital currency.

r/BitcoinSee Post

Please help me with these counter arguments of lightning network.

r/BitcoinSee Post

Hashrate drops mempool get bigger?

r/CryptoCurrencySee Post

How will Bitcoin scale?

r/BitcoinSee Post

Overcoming status quo bias (or why Bitcoin will win in the long term)

r/BitcoinSee Post

Concerns and critics on the lightning network.

r/CryptoCurrencySee Post

Industrial Money

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! June 23, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

Best Bitcoin dashboards

r/BitcoinSee Post

Accepting BTC as Payment for In-Person Sales

r/BitcoinSee Post

How can the Lightning Network be used to pay for stuff if every payment creates a taxable event?

r/CryptoCurrencySee Post

Here's why Bitcoin hasn't seen mass adoption.

r/BitcoinSee Post

OPINION: The Lightning Network will be the future of DeFi 'yield farming' for BTC.

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! June 16, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

LNP/BP Association release RGB Core beta v0.7

r/BitcoinSee Post

BTC up, BTC down bitcoin network still working

r/BitcoinSee Post

Two questions about lighting network and how it can be used to actually be efficient for real world transactions.

r/BitcoinSee Post

The Average non-crypto Normie thinks 1 Sat is 1 Bitcoin. Mind Blown O_o

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! June 09, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

List of big things to forward to before the next bitcoin halving. You must accumulate now.

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! June 02, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

How Many HODLers here run a BTC / LN node?

r/BitcoinSee Post

Tor update 0.4.7—the first stable version of Tor with support for congestion control—finally after years of work. Effects on the Bitcoin network layers.

r/BitcoinSee Post

Fat Protocol Thesis 🧩

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! May 26, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

Finland 🇫🇮 is adopting bitcoin and Lightning ⚡ one business at a time thanks to LN-Kassa, a special Lightning consultancy and Breez Point-of-Sale.

r/BitcoinSee Post

The true costs of using the Lightning Network? How BTC scales.

r/BitcoinSee Post

Paying with LN NFC in Europe

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! May 19, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/CryptoCurrencySee Post

Someone made OnlyFiles on LN network

r/BitcoinSee Post

I've made a simple app to sell your files for LN-BTC

r/BitcoinSee Post

1000 sats for free for first 5 comments

r/BitcoinSee Post

Financial Times futurology vs Bitcoin LN present reality (pic shows total amount of BTC forwarded by a small LN node the last 10 months)

r/BitcoinSee Post

Seeding BTC transactions now with nLockTime to be mined later in the century. Trivial fees today could be massive miner bounties when blocks start hitting in say 2070?

r/BitcoinSee Post

Don't get confuse. We are in ATH -> Hashrate = ATH, 1Yr+ HODL wave = ATH, LN capacity = ATH

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! May 12, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

SLP376 Evan Kaloudis – Zeus: Self Sovereign LN Wallet

r/BitcoinSee Post

⚡ Lightning Thursday! May 05, 2022: Explore the Lightning Network!⚡

r/BitcoinSee Post

Best DCA Exchange?

r/BitcoinSee Post

Panama bitcoin bill. Are zero taxes better than legal tender?

Mentions

Nah, or rather I would say that it used to be used for the Darknet in the early days, but Bitcoin is alot less private than projects like XMR (XMR is used on the dark web now way more than Bitcoin). Crypto has seen some normalization in everyday life, but I think adoption still needs a bit of work when it comes to making it easy for people to use crypto in their everyday lives And nah, the $1 transfer in the example wouldn't take 1-3 days. The way Bitcoin works is that there's miners who help to secure the network by mining blocks. Transactions are sent to blocks and once a block has enough confirmations, then it shows up in your wallet. Depending on the mempool of Bitcoin, it can take anywhere from a few min to an hour or two. There's also a layer 2 scaling protocol called Lightning Network which helps Bitcoin to scale faster (most transactions finish way quicker when using LN). Outside of Bitcoin, lots of other coins are very fast for transferring funds w/ most projects in the top 100 capable of transferring funds between wallets in less than 30 seconds (XLM for example takes on average 5-10 seconds, and fees are extremely low)

Mentions:#XMR#LN#XLM

Evasive troll! Post again when you can refute the fact that 3 million El Salvadoreans have received the $30 bonus for opening a LN wallet. Silence!

Mentions:#LN

>Yes, LN transactions are private. [Nope.](https://github.com/lnbook/lnbook/blob/develop/16_security_privacy_ln.asciidoc) >Mixing was good enough for silk road. "Was", I agree. >Not true You've mentioned XMR being a poor store of value. It would be strange to use Bitcoin to define the effectiveness of it being a SoV - as what would the SoV for Bitcoin itself be? It can't be Bitcoin obviously, as you'd be talking 1 BTC = 1 BTC; which is obviously ridiculous. Comparing both assets to USD/EUR/GBP or Gold or even stocks - both BTC and XMR are holding around the same value in relation to their ATHs. Furthermore, in your reasoning using the XMR/BTC pair - you are using an ATH set in 2018 (which would still not be a 90% drop, it is barely 75%). However, why not look at lows? Because if you bought XMR around the lows in 2015 versus buying Bitcoin around the same lows - you'd have made 800%. And I am talking sats here! In other words, 1 BTC invested in XMR in 2015 would be 8 BTC today. Thus, your reasoning is unfortunately quite flawed.

Mentions:#LN#XMR#BTC

Yes, LN transactions are private. Mixing was good enough for silk road. You have a point with the Stigma thing. But using Bitcoin in general carries less stigma. Not true about how much they have dropped in relation to each other. Monero is down about 90% vs Bitcoin from its sats ATG.

Mentions:#LN#ATG

what if you do multiple transfers kinda like LN (example: A wants to give 0.1 to B, so A gives 0.05 to C, C gives 0.02 to D, A gives 0.02 to D, A gives 0.03 to E, C gives 0.03 to E, D gives 0.04 to B, E gives 0.06 to B)

Mentions:#LN

New Zealand could adopt The Bitcoin Standard via LN in just two days. Lets do this Jacinda!

Mentions:#LN

[https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2021/10/07/in-el-salvador-more-people-have-bitcoin-wallets-than-traditional-bank-accounts/?sh=5ebbdf5720b5](https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2021/10/07/in-el-salvador-more-people-have-bitcoin-wallets-than-traditional-bank-accounts/?sh=5ebbdf5720b5) That's at least 3 million LN in El Salvador.

Mentions:#LN

Not nonsense at all. Fact. Millions of El Salvadoreans have claimed the $30 bonus payment by opening a LN wallet. Fact. By bundling how many more transactions can be included in one block? You dont know do you Einstein...but bundling much reduces the data needed / transaction so bundling could well enable 10000-20000 transactions/block enabling 100000 plus LN/hour.

Mentions:#LN

> But by bundling one transaction can open thousands of LN wallets You repeated yourself, and apparently have no clue what a byte is Keep on squawking

Mentions:#LN

Bigger transactions mean fewer transactions per block. But by bundling one transaction can open thousands of LN wallets. Millions of El Salvadoreans now have LN wallets and yes there is an element of PR to the exercise but also a huge element of demonstrating that nationwide enabling of MoE capacity is possible where the government is not owned by the bankers cartel. NZ government is still appearing subservient to the bankers cartel and a higher ratio of NZs GDP is sent to the US majority shareholders who own NZs main banks. There are clear parallels between military and monetary structures- NZ and the 5Eyes network are subservient monetarily and militarily to the USD banking cartel.

Mentions:#LN

A Lightning channel needs to be opened with an on-chain transaction, and closed with an on-chain transaction. Even if the only on-chain transactions were for Lightning, and most Lightning channels remain open for 3 years, Bitcoin only supports about 1 million channels. It's always too small to be a country-level currency > If thousands of LN wallets are enabled via single bundled BTC transactions You're confused. Bitcoin doesn't have a transaction limit per block. It has a byte limit. Bigger transactions mean fewer transactions per block. The space saved by processing multiple channels in a transaction might allow for 1.5 million channels > El Salvador has done Bitcoin isn't used as a currency in El Salvador any more than it is in New Zealand. El Salvador's strategy was a PR stunt, to enable the government to borrow by selling Bitcoin bonds. The bond sale was canceled because there are no buyers

Mentions:#LN#BTC

'Bitcoin is a system of 50,000 volunteer nodes, and is limited to blocks smaller than 1.7MB, and 144 blocks per day. Anybody who thinks it has the capacity to be a country-level currency is a fool' Even with batching on the main blockchain and Lightning Network? If thousands of LN wallets are enabled via single bundled BTC transactions surely large nation states could adopt LN based monetary system just as El Salvador has done?

Mentions:#MB#LN#BTC

rereading this post and I noticed that you misunderstand what electricity is used for: 'how can you justify that more energy consumption for the same task = better?' I'd suggest to learn what mining actually does and how, starting maybe with what a hash function does. cheap dirty btc is a disproved fud, or please point me to 4k dirty crime ridden btc, I'll make both of us rich. You are dead wrong on what LN is, it doesn't lose many properties of btc, only one and even that is mitigated.

Mentions:#LN

your previous points were addressed even in this thread (privacy, fungibility, LN), and now you seem more concerned about energy use. Keep in mind that there are a lot of academic studies on this topic, and majority is complete bs citing another bs study based on methodology that shows the academics have no idea what they are talking about (i.e. miner lifecycle). There is no such thing as independent source, and I wouldn't listen to someone who never used bitcoin. here's a recent paper from Lopp: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4125499 I would also suggest to check out Jason Lowery and Alex Gladstein, couldn't find any recent paper on the topic but they have interviews on yt discussing all of your concerns.

Mentions:#LN

You repeat but you're talking about two different things. And it's not "in seconds" for LN, it's instantly. Atomically. You either paid or you didn't, and the other receiver knows about that.

Mentions:#LN

Alone the energy consumption is a big downside from economic and technical standpoint, how can you justify that more energy consumption for the same task = better? There is not a single field where such logic is being applied, and BTC won't be a magical exception from it. Unless you come up with some ideological reasoning that you value that there is actual resource being spend, that's fine, but we don't discuss personal beliefs here. Also, "what about bank system" is not a valid argument, they run world economy on it, BTC does not and there is no guarantee it ever will. Another one is privacy. Mixers aren't a good solution because you don't know what kind of BTC you receive from it. Why? Because actually 1BTC is not = 1 BTC. Crime tainted BTC are less valuable and a risk , freshly minted BTC with no history are more expensive. And as a business owner you really don't want that your transactions are visible. Such things are a deal breaker. And no, lightning network or any L2 doesn't fully solve it, you are already on another network and lose many good properties of BTC. Not mentioning all L2 solutions are user experience killers. Is that all disapproved fud? Tell me that when BTC and LN makes, let's say, 5% of worlds financial transaction. Till then, you have something to prove, not the skeptics.

Mentions:#BTC#LN

Congrats on the move, it's never too late. ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Don't listen crypto influencers, please. Most of them get paid to promote shitcoins. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick and read this short guide, please: Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, nor next week. Statistically, it's less than four years from now. Anyone who bought Bitcoin at any point in the past and held it for 4+ years is in profit. **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least first year**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding garbage tokens just because someone on YT told them to. Going DCA is probably the best approach, IMHO. Bitcoin to me, is a savings account. If I have some spare cash, I exchange it for SATs. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. If there's a 10% drop in the price since my last buy, I usually double my buy. This [DCA calculator](https://dcabtc.com/) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. Now, don't buy a fake Bitcoin at etoro or similar, get the real thing. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. A few good wallet choices: [https://blockstream.com/green/](https://blockstream.com/green/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial (although, Lightning is custodial!) [https://www.wasabiwallet.io/](https://www.wasabiwallet.io/) \- Excellent privacy, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. Lightning wallets to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for very small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix [https://breez.technology](https://breez.technology/) \- Breez - excellent POS for small business owners as well as integrated Bitrefill or LN Pizza [https://muun.com/](https://muun.com/) \- Muun, simple and elegant LN wallet Hardware Wallets (to store larger amounts): [https://trezor.io/](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. [https://coldcardwallet.com/](https://coldcardwallet.com/) \- ColdCaard is currently the safest and most recommended here. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend as not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, etc. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different than the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey.

I don't know that lightning will be bigger long term. There are a lot of challenges to overcome vs a coin like Nano that enables no onboarding, no offboarding, no fees, no channel capacity limits, no channel liquidity issues, no routing issues, no watchtowers, no online requirements, etc LN is a useful improvement to Bitcoin in many ways, but it also still has a lot of issues that need to be addressed. I see it as just a matter of time where the need for decentralized currency will grow and simplicity will win out.

Mentions:#LN

We can use LN, fees are really low. And of course we can meet in person, so I can prove you the ticket.

Mentions:#LN

The LN transaction settles in seconds, closing a channel takes minutes. Impossible indeed.

Mentions:#LN

I love how insecure Bitcoiners are about Nano. I don't blame them though, Nano is instant, feeless and eco-friendly on L1. That must be terrifying to anyone who supports LN.

Mentions:#LN

Yeah LN is going to become centralized for sure, its inevitable.

Mentions:#LN

Why discuss the comment? The point is... From a matter of First Principles, Bitcoin *has* the best design, based on social consensus. EVERY other alt coin is actually just a Bitcoin supporter who couldn't reach social consensus. It was agreed that PoW > PoS. It was agreed that small blocks are better than large blocks. It was agreed that 10 min block times are better than 1 min block times. It was agreed that throughout MUST happen on a 2nd Layer, which is why LN is the best solution to replace Visa, Mastercard, & the other global payment processors. It was agreed that contracts (beyond simply timelocks), don't need to waste space on the main chain. Decentralization requires selective info, not ALL info. Yadda, yadda. From the ground up, there's no better solution. What *seems* like better solutions (i.e. - faster solutions) are actually sacrificing the security, stability, defrosting, & trustlessness of the largest PoW system. LN handles those concerns while inheriting the security of BTC's main chain. Time will tell, of course. But BTC was and still is the most amazing invention of the Third Millennium A.D. People still don't understand, and that's fine, but there's a reason that more and more countries are adopting it as legal tender, reference currency, etc. A damn good reason -- it CANNOT be debased.

Mentions:#LN#BTC

>There are times when you have to realize that when you are trying to support something or work for something that cannot feasibly be done. Indeed, and I wonder when Lightning Network supporters finally come to that conclusion. LN is insecure at its core, doesn't actually scale, and is fundamentally inefficient. But let's, instead of focusing on the tech and how crypto could actually change the world, focus on market cap comparisons in a market where DOGE is worth $8 billion and TRON $5.6 billion. /s

Mentions:#LN#DOGE

No. Scaling happens via L2, which is much more than LN. Block size is untouchable.

Mentions:#LN

> you can't ask for a person to input personal information of every payment they make That's true, and it's not true. If you're using a custodial company, you're going to have to supply the name of the other party for every transaction. If that's inconvenient, use Lightning as it was designed - person to person > how much does this stifle innovation? It inhibits profit seeking corporations, which is a good thing, because (especially in Lightning) they're a centralizing force > Are crypto service companies blocked right now by this? No, it's not in law yet. It will soon be law in Europe, which may be one reason Strike doesn't operate in Europe --- To clarify. There are two levels of travel rule, and different implementation progress from country to country The travel rule announced in 2020 applies to transactions between exchanges. Your exchange shares your personal information with the other exchange (without telling you). This is in law in Europe and the USA, not yet implemented in all exchanges in the USA, and not implemented at all where the two exchanges are in different countries, due to a conflict between the USA version of the travel rule and the Europe privacy rules The **extended** travel rule announced in 2021 requires an exchange to ask the customer to provide name and address of the other party when receiving a deposit into an exchange account or when withdrawing from an exchange account. For practical reasons, the exchange is unable to verify whether the details are correct. One proposal mentioned that exchanges should impose some restriction on customers whom they suspect are providing false other party details The extended travel rule appears not to be in force anywhere yet, because there are no complaints about having to provide other party details > How does Strike allow to send your dollars through LN instantly and for free, to any LN invoice, when the travel rule is mandatory? Two extra fields on a form - other party name, other party address

Mentions:#LN

>lnmarkets.com Wow. How am I just hearing about this now? That sign in via LN was seamless.

Mentions:#LN

The most exciting thing I have seen recently is fedimint. It's under development right now and it's absolutely scary how perfect it fits into the Bitcoin/LN ecosystem and addresses a lot of the remaining problems. "What Bitcoin Did" Episode that explains what the tech is all about: https://youtu.be/7AN2C53X\_D0 This is the fist time that I have a clear picture how Bitcoin will scale to billions of people. I'm more bullish than ever

Mentions:#LN

The last big upgrade of Bitcoin was Taproot. But Bitcoin doesn't upgrade often, it doesn't have too, as it works great as is. Most development is happening on top of it, like wallets becoming better, or LN and things built on LN. Interesting project is Teleport (CoinSwap implementation). If it goes well, this will offer great privacy for everyday bitcoin transactions. Also interesting project is Pickhardt payments, which improves liquidity of LN.

Mentions:#LN

Those are the exact points made in the video posted. Compares bitcoin to gold and fed wire, which are final settlement mechanisms of base layer money - like bitcoin. Then compares Visa to LN.

Mentions:#LN

Getting complex here, but you could wire up an ir sensor or mechanical switch that would trigger when a coin goes in, have a piece of software pick up that event and then submit a transaction from your source wallet to their piggy bank wallet, all while updating a LCD screen on the piggy bank? 10ish minutes later their balance updates, or immediate if you choose to use LN wallets.

Mentions:#LCD#LN

#Lightning Network Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Blendzi0r which won 1st place in the Lightning Network Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > # What is Lightning Network and why is it needed? > > Lightning Network is a layer 2 protocol (just like e.g. Optimistic Rollups are layer 2 solutions for ETH) designed to solve scalability problem. Scalability, to put it simply, is how many transactions per second (TPS) can be performed. As of now, Bitcoin is not scalable, meaning it can perform very few transactions compared not only to PayPal or Visa, but also to many other cryptocurrencies. This results in high fees and delayed transactions. Lightning Network is supposed to solve Bitcoin’s scalability problem. > > # What are Lightning Network’s cons? > > Lightning Network does not really solve the scalability problem > > The main downside of Lightning Network is the fact that it does not solve the problem it is supposed to solve. In order to use LN, you have to set up (fund) a payment channel and to do that, you have to make an on-chain transaction. Then you can make as many transactions on LN as you want but there are several problems: > > 1) Bitcoin’s (and other cryptocurrencies') **volatility** – due to fluctuations in BTCs price, most people do not hold their Bitcoins for too long in payment channels on LN. Most people move them back and forth. This means that there are still many transactions made on the blockchain since the opening and closing of payment channel takes place on the blockchain. > > Rakes Sharma from Investopedia gives another example of problems associated with Bitcoin’s volatility and the use of LN: > > *For example, let's say a company has to pay an invoice to their supplier of bitcoin. Typically, suppliers give their clients time to pay, such as 30 days. If bitcoin's price has increased by 10% during the 30 day period, the business has to come up with another 10% worth of fiat currency or another cryptocurrency to convert to Bitcoin and pay the invoice to pay the supplier. This exchange risk exists because the business might be paid by their customers in a fiat currency and not Bitcoin. The exchange risk also exists for consumer transactions since the salary or wages for most individuals are not paid in Bitcoin, leading to transactions being converted from a fiat currency to Bitcoin.* > > 2) **No incentive to keep your BTC on LN** – the transactions on LN are very cheap, therefore the commissions you make by serving as a node (intermediary in transactions between agents who do not have direct connection) are also very low. > > 3) **Nodes are required to stay online** – to make and validate transactions on LN, you have to use your private key. This is not only inconvenient but also puts the user at risk of his/her device (on which the private keys are stored) being exposed. > > 4) **Going offline poses a risk** – nodes are required to stay online probably because going offline may cause a lot of problems. If one of the participants of a payment channel decides to close it while the other one is absent, this user might successfully steal the amount of BTC held on that channel if the other participant does not react in time. > > 5) The above also makes **malicious attacks on the network** possible – someone might create multiple channels and close them all at once, creating a huge congestion since closing a channel is an on-chain transaction. This congestion, in turn, would make it impossible for other participants of those channels to react in time and withdraw their funds. > > 6) Although transactions made on LN are not public, nodes can see who they received the payment from and who they passed the payment to. There are also “watchtower” nodes that can monitor the whole network for fraud. This combined with inconveniences of maintaining a node as a regular user, **might make LN centralized**: big players will be happy to maintain multiple nodes 24/7 even if it isn't that profitable in exchange for the information on transactions that people make. They would also be able to put a lot of funds on their payment channels making them more practical (the transaction amount on LN is limited by the amount of BTC held in payment channels/nodes - see point 8). > > 7) It has been years since LN was completed (2017) and **it still is not popular** among the great majority of Bitcoin holders. As of now, not even 0.5% of BTC is “locked” on LN. And if the network is not used, it will never solve the scalability problem. > > 8) Payment channels need to have an equal or larger amount of BTC from that being send by someone. And since sometimes the payment has to go through several payment channels, **it makes large transactions very complicated**. If someone wanted to send e.g. 1 BTC, each payment channel that this transaction would go through has to hold at least 1 BTC. > > 9) Another problem with transactions going via multiple payment channels/nodes is the fact that **each node takes a commission**. So it might turn out that some transactions are not really that cheap. > > 10) Bugs in the code are still being found today and some people say that LN should still be in a testing phase. > > ^(Sources:) > > ^(https://lightning.network/lightning-network-paper.pdf) > > ^(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning\\Network) > > ^(https://www.investopedia.com/tech/bitcoin-lightning-network-problems/) > > ^(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3cQNpOR\\a0) > > ^(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCSfoiD8wUA) > > ^(https://www.reuters.com/business/el-salvadors-bitcoin-beach-town-digital-divide-slows-uptake-2021-06-14/) > > ^(https://www.wired.com/story/the-lightning-network-could-make-bitcoin-faster-and-cheaper/) > > ^(https://cointelegraph.com/lightning-network-101/altcoins-with-lightning-network-support) > > ^(https://blockchainsimplified.com/blog/bitcoin-lightning-network-vs-ethereum-plasma/) ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfom7t/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_lightning_network/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Lightning_Network) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/xp0c4c/daily_general_discussion_september_27_2022_gmt0/).

Mentions:#ETH#LN#BTC

#Lightning Network Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by roberthonker which won 2nd place in the Lightning Network Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > **Taken from u\/FrogsDoBeCool's submission from last round** > > # The lightning network, completing transactions lightning fast > > Disclaimer: I own bitcoin, and use it as a way to invest my money, although I do not move money on the lightning network! > > > > The lightning network is a peer-to-peer network that is built upon bitcoin. The lightning network basically uses bitcoin to give cheap and fast transactions for bitcoin. Something interesting to me that basically, no one talks about is that the lightning network is customizable towards multiple coins… Litecoin is the second coin that supports the lightning network. Although I believe this is pretty useless, (litecoin fees are already pretty low) it doesn’t remove the fact that a $0.50\~ transaction fee can become near $0. Some say the transaction fee is “about as large as an atom”. The transaction speeds of the Lightning network is just simply not important, it’s fast enough so that if the whole world were using the LN network we may have a few seconds of delay in any given transaction. The fees also are about nothing, $0. To be honest, I am excited over this network, it allows not only anonymity, feeless transactions, scalability, but a solution to a foundation bitcoin built, a foundation that became a problem in itself for its low tps, bad fees, and scalability. > > > > The lightning network to work basically sets up a channel that connects the network from the sender and receiver. The lightning networks uses multi-signature transactions to confirm a lightning channel. Time locks are also used, which is a way to stop transactions from instantly being executed. Time locks are most commonly used when there’s a lot of demand for bitcoin transactions, and not enough blocks being confirmed. When a payment channel is opened, the multi-signature feature of bitcoin builds addresses that only allow those addresses to move money between each other if both signatures are confirmed. The lightning network includes the local and remote balances, the local balance is your balance, the remote is the other party involved. REFUNDS ACTUALLY EXIST ON LIGHTNING. They are limited in time, but they exist, reversible transactions exist. Refunds from what I know though are only used when a payment channel is set up and party A puts bitcoin into the channel, and party B ghosts party A. Usually, you need both parties to confirm a transaction (moving bitcoin from the payment channel back into the bitcoin network itself) but if party B ghosts party A for a few days, you can refund. > > > > The transactions when completed should be boxed up and put into a block on the chain. If there are three or more parties then the transaction shows the first and last transaction “A pays B 5 btc, B pays C 5btc” the transaction on chain would be “A pays C 5 btc”. Unconfirmed transactions are also a life saver. Technically, you can send 5 btc to party B and party B never accepts the transaction, and party A never refunds it. Party B can at any time confirm the transaction then and own the bitcoin. I can’t wait to see how people will use this feature to basically just stop confirming transactions on the blockchain, but still, have bitcoin moving around. Full anonymity. Bitcoin has a limited amount of transactions that can fit inside a block, this is why you pay higher when more people want to move Bitcoin around, more demand, limited supply, and unlike other side chains like polygon on ethereum the lightning network is, well, a network, not a chain. > > > > [src 1](https://lightning.network/lightning-network-paper.pdf) > > [src 2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCSfoiD8wUA) > > [src 3](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXT9iq__V8c) > > ​ > > edit: 8/30/21, remade and reworked arguement ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfolqr/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_lightning_network/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Lightning_Network) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

Mentions:#LN

RGB on LN sounded promising. There's also Impervious Browser and other apps that also run on LN. Doubt you'll see any of that stuff on the BIPS page...

Mentions:#LN

use it to sign in to lnmarkets.com to check out authentication via LN. it blew my mind.

Mentions:#LN

UX of LN is making crazy progress and is already very close to being there. check out phoenix wallet.

Mentions:#LN

>You should only put a small amount in lightning anyways. See it like your wallet, you wouldn't carry your life savings in cash with you all the time, right? I agree, and if you follow this logic (LN as hot wallet only), you might as well use a custodial LN wallet instead of your own LN node. I guess LN nodes are and will mostly be run by wallet providers or other service providers, and not by simple users. Even a technical guy running their own LN node and providing it aaS to friends and family, is not really useful. Just use muun/wallet of satoshi/bluewallet with their professional nodes... Again, as a hot wallet.

Mentions:#LN

Yeah they could have easily launched pouch from a company owned tablet and then he could have scanned that. Also, I don't think he had to copy and paste the LN address. I've seen where you tap the QR code and the phone asks which app you want to open the link with and you pick your Bitcoin wallet.

Mentions:#LN

Congrats on the move, it's never too late. ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Don't listen crypto influencers, please. Most of them get paid to promote shitcoins. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick and read this short guide, please: Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, nor next week. Statistically, it's less than four years from now. Anyone who bought Bitcoin at any point in the past and held it for 4+ years is in profit. **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least first year**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding garbage tokens just because someone on YT told them to. Going DCA is probably the best approach, IMHO. Bitcoin to me, is a savings account. If I have some spare cash, I exchange it for SATs. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. If there's a 10% drop in the price since my last buy, I usually double my buy. This [DCA calculator](https://dcabtc.com/) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. Now, don't buy a fake Bitcoin at etoro or similar, get the real thing. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. A few good wallet choices: [https://blockstream.com/green/](https://blockstream.com/green/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial (although, Lightning is custodial!) [https://www.wasabiwallet.io/](https://www.wasabiwallet.io/) \- Excellent privacy, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. Lightning wallets to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for very small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix [https://breez.technology](https://breez.technology/) \- Breez - excellent POS for small business owners as well as integrated Bitrefill or LN Pizza [https://muun.com/](https://muun.com/) \- Muun, simple and elegant LN wallet Hardware Wallets (to store larger amounts): [https://trezor.io/](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. [https://coldcardwallet.com/](https://coldcardwallet.com/) \- ColdCaard is currently the safest and most recommended here. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend as not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, etc. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different than the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey.

Trust cannot be created from thin air. Two tokens of different unit maintaining cost shall not pretend to be each other. Human factors will invade the gap eventually. Now you can estimate how much unit cost of an on-chain PoW token and its LN token.

Mentions:#LN

Well, I haven't downvoted you despite your rudeness. It was just a friendly reminder that this place is more pleasant to be on when people are civil. As for your opinion on Bitcoin, you could be right. My take is that you'll be wrong for a number of reasons. 1) Bitcoin is using more and more green energy. 2) LN has faults but overall is scaling up regarding transaction time. 3) Bitcoin does not need to be everything at once. Being a place to park money as a hedge against inflation is enough, and it works great for that. 4) It's the only cryptocurrency that has been kind of sheltered from "security" comments by the SEC. Regulation is likely on the way. There are other reasons that point to you possibly being wrong, but those are a few. Time will tell. I will say that your stringent confidence is probably misplaced. You should know how wrong everyone can be in this space.

Mentions:#LN

Whats the name of the app for LN?

Mentions:#LN

> You again! FO with an immediate opening comment on the messenger and not on their message. > Time will tell Meaningless > the lightning network resolved the scaling issues No it didn't. It allowed a mechanism to book unsettled L2 IOUs in a far less secure system than the L1, which can't be settled more than once per lifetime of everyone on the planet > I mean, $100m in 8 months taking 2% of the remittance market is a pretty good start It's absolutely pathetic, given that the dictator promised remittances as one of the key benefits for his country dependent for 23% of GDP on remittances for 360,000 households. > How's nano doing for adoption for remittances compared to LN? Nano hasn't got someone imprisoning 2% of the adult population and constantly nagging the remaining free population to use it and accept it legal mandate. Nor has it got a dictator bribing users with $30 of their own money. Nor has it got a charlatan lying to users that he's offering them a "wallet" to put it into (which is not a wallet at all, but a banking app.) So GTFO with your smarmy attempted dig (even though it's great to see which currency you're most afraid of.)

Mentions:#FO#LN#GTFO

A merchant could receive a paymwnt via lightning and choose if he wants to keep it on the LN network, move it to the main layer or convert it to some other currency. This way payments are almost without fees and instant and can be scaled infinite. Payments should be done via lightning except if its a large and you dont care about 8 cent fee. Bitcoin is thr settlement layer and Lightning the payments.

Mentions:#LN

That's a theory which has existed since it's conception, but all LN maps out there show that in practice, it's quite the opposite and now we have a lot more nodes, of similar category sizes. Either way, as I've explained, even if it were true, even if at some point we had a single big node processing most, it doesn't matter at all, since the potential problems would be easily and organically solved. About LN being custodial, that was true a while ago, and so was for Android wallets until SVP clients were created. Just like now we don't need to run a full node to have a Bitcoin wallet in our phone, we don't need to run an LN node to perform non-custodial tx in LN (IE:Phoenix wallet or Eclair before that), it's still not a formalized standard (at least AFAIK) but more proposals are being worked on. I do recommend people run their own nodes, they can do it in their phones as they require minimal overhead (unlike actual nodes), and just use a Lighthouse in case they fear they may be offline for a while. The problem is that there is no one click solution right now that would do all of that for you.

Mentions:#LN

You can't have a centralized payment processor in LN. Routing nodes are no authority of any kind or are not managed by a single entity or in a single place, that's what would having a centralized payment processor would mean. When you send a transaction, is your node which decides which route the payment should take. It doesn't matter if there is a huge payment processor, if there is a more efficient route that your node can find, it will send it that way. If a single payment processor gets too big and starts amassing too many tx and too much value, is trivial for anyone else to offer a new routing node offering slightly better conditions and steal their profit until a new equilibrium optimal for the end user is reached.

Mentions:#LN

> I send LN invoice for 1000 Sats (about a $10 Lyft ride, for Sat price of $.20) If a sat is $0.2 then 1000 sats costs $200. > I ask to be paid in Sats at the rate of 100 Sats / 1 Bit per approximate dollar value. So you get paid in, (100sats/100sats)/ 1dollar What is a 1/dollar in real terms because I know what a dollar is but not a "one divided by dollar". You don't make any sense.

Mentions:#LN

I often wonder if the various "Bitcoin Accepted Here" merchants are actually using LN, or are expecting people to pay onchain.

Mentions:#LN

That's a solid answer. What gave it priority over similar projects like XMR, XLM, or BTC(with LN or privacy options) itself? I'd assume CEX availability/speed?

I think the real question to ask is how many were done with people running their own LN node, and how many were done via a centralised payment processor.

Mentions:#LN

> Is it bad to just say I don’t care? No, you're entitled to care about it as much as you want, but misrepresenting Bitcoin or misrepresenting the limitations of banks is not "not caring". > No one actually uses bitcoin. Even if it was just speculation on exchanges your statement would be wrong. But Bitcoin on-chain and LN show usage outside of exchanges, so it's even more inaccurate. You can certainly claim that not enough people to your taste use Bitcoin as a currency for it to be relevant... but if it's your criticism of it, why does it matter to you? Let them transact with it, just like they let your transact with USD or which ever fiat money you use. > Once you have people actually using bitcoin constantly. Then maybe I’ll hop on board more on it. And you'll be welcome to use it if it happens! Better yet, nobody will force you to use it by design, something unfortunately can't unfortunately about fiat.

Mentions:#LN

Do you have anything cold storage in the LN for the next 50 years?

Mentions:#LN

Lol it was a joke referring to the time it stopped working properly literally for months. Bitcoin's 30-60 mins is orders of magnitude better than swift which can take weeks, and that's all that matters with the speed and scalability of LN. And I'm very impressed with your boldness if you actually transferred a $50k transaction on such an unreliable and unproven network...

Mentions:#LN

Ofc it's bridged, BTC cannot leave the Bitcoin network so you will always get a wrapped version of BTC on LN.

Mentions:#BTC#LN

As a small addition - in a very important way they do. If you can only hold then Bitcoin would be worthless. It has value because presumably you are able to sell it if and when you want to. If you hold your BTC in self-storage (as you should) and want to send it to someone, or to an exchange, or open a LN channel, transaction fees definitely affect that. If you have $500 worth of Bitcoin and transaction fees are $1000 you might as well see your coins as lost. I believe this is already the case and has been for very small dust amounts, but this should only become more and more relevant.

Mentions:#BTC#LN

My motives are that I want decentralized digital money, a store of value and medium of exchange. If we can fix Bitcoin, or Ethereum, or any other crypto to accomplish that, I'll be very happy. However, I find it unlikely that that happens because chains ossify over time and change seems difficult. I'm therefore more optimistic about chains that have are currently smaller but have solved these issues at the start. That being said, what layer 2 do you see as promising? Reason I ask is that LN is usually brought up and if so, I ignore it being it's insecure, doesn't actually scale well, and does not fix any of the underlying issues in Bitcoin, including the centralization over time and the decreasing security.

Mentions:#LN

Been in crypto since 2014 and never owned BTC because even then it was obviously legacy tech with no serious ability or desire to improve/upgrade. Shitting on other project who try to do what Bitcoin refuses to do is absolutely insulting to the thousands of smart people who are pushing hard to make crypto something that can actually work at scale, for the betterment of humanity, LN is centralized nonsense, it works only if you break what Bitcoin stands for - pointless.

Mentions:#BTC#LN

Muun Wallet....fund on chain, spend/receive on LN

Mentions:#LN

U can use L2 solutions for everything else and just the consensus/validation (not even this is necessary) on L1 where incentives will be beside the point ... like in Eth case, you basically use more the de-fi environment that's running through the EVM than you use Eth for anything, if something, i avoid using Eth the most for obvious reasons, higher fees than other chains , but the de-fi sphere is the most developed. Just by using the decentralised finance options offerd/matured on different Networks can you really start to understand the technological scope and possibilities at hand ... The fact that the block production is centralised to a few entities makes no difference if the process cannot be corrupted ... Btc will suffice to only be used as a consensus layer while the execution layer will happen on different other chains/options. The biggest hindrance today for Btc , and what will make it a retrograde chain by comparison to the industry's standards, is the cult minded user base and maxis/devs , because the most part of the price is made up by entities who hold and add 0 development or contribution to the use of the chain, because atm , there's really not much you can do except use it as a trading pair ... tps is way better on other chains, it lacks SC capabilities beside, Rootstock, Liquid, Stacks, Lightning, and RBG, of which LN basically only takes tps load and RGB is a collection of protocols that provides smart contracts for Bitcoin and the Lightning Network. BTC needs development/usage , your worries are beside the point because the incentive will become beside the point as everything will move on second and third layers.

LN actually removes transaction fees from L1 though, it actually makes OPs point stronger, even if people did want to use it for real things.

Mentions:#LN

LN doesn't pay L1 fees though, so it doesn't challenge OPs point. It actually makes things worse if most users stay on LN and do no transactions on L1. >RGBP Irrelevant unless bitcoin L1 can scale to benefit from higher transaction fees throughput.

Mentions:#LN

What's the difference between bridging BTC to the LN instead of bridging it to let's say Ethereum?

Mentions:#BTC#LN

A post full of false arguments… no name a few bitcoin with LN so far is the best option for payments compared to other projects, and wait till RGBP full release and we will see what other projects are needed apart from bitcoin, when it’s going to do everything that all the blockchains try to do just bitcoin will do that in the way it’s supposed to-decentralised, secure and scalable manner

Mentions:#LN

Right now on-chain is gonna be processed for 1 sat/vbyte. On the other hand, to start getting into Lightning Muun wallet is a good start. You fund the wallet by doing an onchain trx and after that you can move your funds via lightning. But don't be irritated by the first LN transaction having high fees. That's how muun finances the channel management, I guess. After that it always cost 0 zero. Or at least next to zero. Just give it a try. (Remember to do the backup steps, in the first place step two and three. It's no problem to skip the first step though).

Mentions:#LN

We don't know that, it's only contains actually the on chain data only. There could be more data, I mean some people use LN and that settles on the base chain as well.

Mentions:#LN

Govs can and will regulate this and just say that if you participate in LN or BTC as a node, you need some kind of stupid money license.

Mentions:#LN#BTC

That's why the LN exists, more people should be looking to use it.

Mentions:#LN

This is an exceptionally good article and emphasis points that extremely important but are rarely even brought up even in this sub, let alone in the media. > Integration speed/cost: Anyone in the world can become members of these emerging payment networks in the span of a few hours, using equipment that costs a few hundred dollars. A lot of people completely underestimate the importance of this point. It's basically only possible for big companies with a lot of capital to cut trough months or years of regulatory paperwork to onboard to the legacy financial system. With Bitcoin/LN, everyone in their garage will be able to do so without having to ask anyone. If you ask yourself who the Amazon, Google and Facebook of Crypto are, it's the companies that will build their businesses on this rails, not the rails itself. The amount of innovation this can potentially spawn is insane, and every country trying to outlaw this technology will make sure they lose all the brain power in that space to other countries that don't > Developer communities: Open, permissionless protocols have huge developer communities, which compounds the speed of their ecosystem development and network effects. It's basically what happened to Linux all over again. Basically if everyone creates their own thing they each have to bear 100% of the development and maintenance cost. But if even two companies start to corporate on an open source project, they collectively profit from advancements both of them contribute, and as more and more join it will eclipse what a single company can compete with by magnitudes. Banks, or their future replacements will either join or get wiped out trying to compete against something they have no chance beating.

Mentions:#LN

This is an exceptionally good article and emphasis points that extremely important but are rarely even brought up even in this community, let alone in the media. > Integration speed/cost: Anyone in the world can become members of these emerging payment networks in the span of a few hours, using equipment that costs a few hundred dollars. People completely underestimate this point. It's basically only possible for big companies with a lot of capital to cut trough months or years of regulatory paperwork to onboard to the legacy financial system. With Bitcoin/LN, everyone in their garage will be able to do so without having to ask anyone. If you ask yourself who the Amazon, Google and Facebook of Crypto are, it's the companies that will build their businesses on this rails, not rails itself. The amount of innovation this can potentially spawn is insane, and every country trying to outlaw this technology will make sure they lose all the brain power in that space to other countries that don't > Developer communities: Open, permissionless protocols have huge developer communities, which compounds the speed of their ecosystem development and network effects. It's basically what happened to Linux all over again. And if you now say "I'm not using Linux" stfu, yes you are, there are probably more devices in your household running Linux than any other operating system you are aware of. And so does the whole internet. Basically if everyone creates their own thing they each have to bear 100% of the development and maintenance cost. But if even two companies start to corporate on an open source they collectively profit from advancements both of them contribute, and as more and more join it will eclipse what a single company can compete with by magnitudes. Banks, or their future replacements will either join or get wiped out trying to compete against the rest of the world that collaborates on the new global monetary network.

Mentions:#LN

I always said LN would become a centralized shit-show, this demonstrates how its going to happen.

Mentions:#LN

I use XMR / XLM and a few other alts to move $ around or buy stuff on the interwebs, but I rarely use BTC (confirmations are slow on average when you aren't using LN). I use Eth and BSB to mess around in their ecosystems+i've been messing with a few other platforms lately I still use credit / cash for everyday transactions though such as paying my bills and rent+buying food, clothes, household items and whatnot

There's no withdrawal fee on strike and also it supports LN big time.

Mentions:#LN

You don't know the what an IOU is then and neither do you how force closing works on LN, it bears an ususal 2 weeks long grace period in which you can claim the whole balance of your counterparty in the Poon Dryja scheme. That's in one more ways not how IOU works. And considering how bad faith you are here and the way you spammed answered in different threads just to waste my time, I won't even waste more of it answering elsewhere. It's not like you've raised an good point in your other answers anyways, just old FUD that has been debunked many times. Thanks for displaying to everyone how bad faith you are by employing such a weak tactics... really pathetic.

Mentions:#LN#FUD

> Transaction fees are insufficient incentive. They already were demonstrably sufficient at some point, users did pay more than the subsidy in the past. > Transactions cannot move to layer 2 because that 99% still needs to settle their IOUs, even if only on their deathbed. Please educate yourself about LN and the many ways to onboard at a very low cost. Furthermore nothing prevents someone to inherit an IOU... but they're not even an IOU, an IOU is just a promise on paper, an HTLC/PTLC are valid Bitcoin transactions anyone can broadcast to settle them on-chain, it's more than just a promise.

Mentions:#LN

So I understand you are a fan of LN but these justifications don't work for literally billions of people in the world. We can definitely do better imo

Mentions:#LN

Who do you believe you are trusting on LN?

Mentions:#LN

Yeah but I definitely want to keep it trustless so LN is out for me

Mentions:#LN

>> It simply can work, by increasing the block period. > >Anything can "work" by waiting longer. I have a cure for cancer that works on that principle: I just wait until you are dead. Increasing the block period now that we have LN has very small negative consequences. It does save the life of the patient, a _meaningfully useful_ cure. I'm not trying to make a semantics argument so I apologize if it came across that way. >unless you have FTL travel in your back pocket, you can certainly see how the problem of distance make it clear that local activity on mars is going to need a lot more frequent cycle time than shipments to and from alpha centauri which arrive 100,000 years after shipment. We're talking about two separate scales here. Forking to support solar system trade is much more immediate and clear cut than forking to support interstellar trade for unknown distances. Alpha centauri is "only" 5 LY away. I can easily imagine a financial system that takes years to solve blocks for the overall money supply, and relies on sidechains for on-world commerce. >A good starting point for what constitutes a reasonable market should at least consider the lifetime of market participants, and no, I do not think that is a false assertion. I honestly don't see anything unreasonable about this at all. Those lifetimes might even be longer by then. We will be very different, socially and maybe physically, by the time we're trading between stars. > Data can in fact be scarce, and while not fungible, if it is the singular and only thing you can trade its also unpricable in any other terms than exactly what data is being traded. Why not? Call bitcoin "data credits" if needed. > Further more it has the property that when sold or traded it stay in the possession of the seller as well as the buyer. This makes it worse for trade, not better. >Going back to the coconut only trade, a free floating money system would be pointless; a coconut credit would be worth an exact amount of coconuts, and if it were not it would have no value at all since there is nothing else to buy. But the "coconuts" in this situation aren't fungible. The coconuts are different sizes, worth different amounts of bitcoin.

Mentions:#LN

If one of them were accepting LN payments right now, how would you know?

Mentions:#LN

bitcoin can do less then 10 tx/per second, but VISA does up to 100k tps. I fell out for about a year, did LN solved inbound liquidity problem? or its not a problem? i am starting being sarcastic because i know i spent days and hours waiting for mempool to clear. Like waking up early to do a payment etc for months straight, its not a single incident. Even in the wallet the mentioned tx belong to, there are other costly txses present.

Mentions:#VISA#LN

So 2017 pre segwit, LN and exchange batching is very recently?

Mentions:#LN

Too much theory, in practice this is broken. Or better, the compromise has already been made- Blocks stay at 1mb even when there were serious proposals to make them smaller. Pools have been handling the problem of tiny mining for some time. Especially with payouts on LN. No attack. Regulating mining just means miners will move, as they've done many times.

Mentions:#LN

LN can not do the tings that ODL and XRPL does, i cant write software on btc, can not create side chains, store and create NFT, i can swap xrp with btc, eth and many more with ledger life, without registration and use of crypto exchange, what the LN and btc does ?

Mentions:#LN

I think any wallet that might support the LN will be enough for you.

Mentions:#LN