LN

TheresNoSecondBest

>What are some tips for determining when to sell my bitcoin? **No Neo. When you're ready, you won't have to.** Don't worry, mate. You'll understand it later. >What is the best platform for Australian investors? IIRC, there used to be Amber. If you can get Strike, even better. Congrats on the move, it's never too late, [despite new people thinking otherwise](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rskpuf/i_have_only_600_bitcoinsi_missed_the_bus/). ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money by Lyn Alden. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick by investing into some website. They all are scammers. Even the hot Asian chick, he's a scammer too. **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. DCA is probably the best approach. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. This [DCA calculator](https://21vox.com/dca-calculator) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting too and compares buying bitcoin VS stocks. Now, don't buy some fake bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. **Good wallet choices:** [https://blockstream.com/app/](https://blockstream.com/app/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. **Lightning wallets** to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean. The app runs a full LND node on your phone and you have the ability to easily open channels to whatever nodes you like. [https://zeusln.com/](https://zeusln.com/) Zeus - impressive wallet with many features, can even generate Nostr keys [https://breez.technology](https://breez.technology/) \- Breez - excellent POS for small business owners as well as integrated Bitrefill Note: Breez does also a hybrid liquid/LN wallet called Misty Breez - the sats being on liquid means no need for channels although the payments take a few extra seconds. You'll also can get a free customable LN address. While talking about hybrid wallets, there's also Aqua Wallet although not IMHO as good as Misty Breez. There are also custodial LN wallet but I would honestly avoid using them because you have to trust the wallet operator not to steal your money. Their only advantage is that they are incredibly easy to use, although it might cost you big one day. To keep up to date with spending wallets, visit r/TheLightningNetwork at least once a while and perhaps r/RGB in the future. **Hardware Wallets** (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. If you can afford it, opt for Safe 7 (**air-gapped**) and use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor). Sadly, this device is **not air-gapped**. [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. There's a newer version called Jade Plus, it has much better camera and overall is a better build. I would go stateless instead of using their servers. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. [Krux wallet](https://selfcustody.github.io/krux/) - one more DIY hardware device, I love this one for many reasons. Similar to Seedsigner, it's fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, that is not for you right now if you're just starting up, but something to consider at a later stage and/or to up the security of your bitcoin. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, making is an expensive hot wallet. The opposite of what you want from a cold wallet. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. The same goes for many other hardware wallets that are too new or filled with too much of unnecessary shitcoin code. Stay away. There's also ColdCard, great features but recently had a massive duckup, I would wait until all of their code is fully open source, preferably rewritten by the community before touching it. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners or r/Bitcoin and look for the answers.

DangerHighVoltage111

BTCs transaction throughput got crippled. Which meant whenever it hit that limit, fees skyrocketed and transactions became extremely unreliable. LN didn't solve that problem and so the p2p cash use case slowly disappeared. The thing that made it valuable in the first place.

TheresNoSecondBest

Multiple cold, hot and LN wallets. Zero KYC.

TheresNoSecondBest

Congrats on the move, it's never too late, [despite new people thinking otherwise](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rskpuf/i_have_only_600_bitcoinsi_missed_the_bus/). ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money by Lyn Alden. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick by investing into some website. They all are scammers. Even the hot Asian chick, he's a scammer too. **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. DCA is probably the best approach. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. This [DCA calculator](https://21vox.com/dca-calculator) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting too and compares buying bitcoin VS stocks. Now, don't buy some fake bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. **Good wallet choices:** [https://blockstream.com/app/](https://blockstream.com/app/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. **Lightning wallets** to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean. The app runs a full LND node on your phone and you have the ability to easily open channels to whatever nodes you like. [https://zeusln.com/](https://zeusln.com/) Zeus - impressive wallet with many features, can even generate Nostr keys [https://breez.technology](https://breez.technology/) \- Breez - excellent POS for small business owners as well as integrated Bitrefill Note: Breez does also a hybrid liquid/LN wallet called Misty Breez - the sats being on liquid means no need for channels although the payments take a few extra seconds. You'll also can get a free customable LN address. While talking about hybrid wallets, there's also Aqua Wallet although not IMHO as good as Misty Breez. There are also custodial LN wallet but I would honestly avoid using them because you have to trust the wallet operator not to steal your money. Their only advantage is that they are incredibly easy to use, although it might cost you big one day. To keep up to date with spending wallets, visit r/TheLightningNetwork at least once a while and perhaps r/RGB in the future. **Hardware Wallets** (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. If you can afford it, opt for Safe 7 (**air-gapped**) and use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor). Sadly, this device is **not air-gapped**. [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. There's a newer version called Jade Plus, it has much better camera and overall is a better build. I would go stateless instead of using their servers. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. [Krux wallet](https://selfcustody.github.io/krux/) - one more DIY hardware device, I love this one for many reasons. Similar to Seedsigner, it's fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, that is not for you right now if you're just starting up, but something to consider at a later stage and/or to up the security of your bitcoin. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, making is an expensive hot wallet. The opposite of what you want from a cold wallet. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. The same goes for many other hardware wallets that are too new or filled with too much of unnecessary shitcoin code. Stay away. There's also ColdCard, great features but recently had a massive duckup, I would wait until all of their code is fully open source, preferably rewritten by the community before touching it. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners or r/Bitcoin and look for the answers.

soggycheesestickjoos

Do you realize that a similar trust system could be built on bitcoin for the same purpose if merchants don’t want to wait a few seconds? One less centralized example is LN, but a traditional bank with bitcoin as currency is also possible if desired. So, whatever might be better with a centralized system built on trust can also be done for bitcoin, but whatever bitcoin does with decentralization and without relying on trusting individual entities cannot be done by banks.

TheresNoSecondBest

Congrats on the move, it's never too late, [despite new people thinking otherwise](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rskpuf/i_have_only_600_bitcoinsi_missed_the_bus/). ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money by Lyn Alden. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick by investing into some website. They all are scammers. Even the hot Asian chick, he's a scammer too. **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. DCA is probably the best approach. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. This [DCA calculator](https://21vox.com/dca-calculator) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting too and compares buying bitcoin VS stocks. Now, don't buy some fake bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. **Good wallet choices:** [https://blockstream.com/app/](https://blockstream.com/app/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. **Lightning wallets** to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean. The app runs a full LND node on your phone and you have the ability to easily open channels to whatever nodes you like. [https://zeusln.com/](https://zeusln.com/) Zeus - impressive wallet with many features, can even generate Nostr keys [https://breez.technology](https://breez.technology/) \- Breez - excellent POS for small business owners as well as integrated Bitrefill Note: Breez does also a hybrid liquid/LN wallet called Misty Breez - the sats being on liquid means no need for channels although the payments take a few extra seconds. You'll also can get a free customable LN address. While talking about hybrid wallets, there's also Aqua Wallet although not IMHO as good as Misty Breez. There are also custodial LN wallet but I would honestly avoid using them because you have to trust the wallet operator not to steal your money. Their only advantage is that they are incredibly easy to use, although it might cost you big one day. To keep up to date with spending wallets, visit r/TheLightningNetwork at least once a while and perhaps r/RGB in the future. **Hardware Wallets** (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. If you can afford it, opt for Safe 7 (**air-gapped**) and use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor). Sadly, this device is **not air-gapped**. [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. There's a newer version called Jade Plus, it has much better camera and overall is a better build. I would go stateless instead of using their servers. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. [Krux wallet](https://selfcustody.github.io/krux/) - one more DIY hardware device, I love this one for many reasons. Similar to Seedsigner, it's fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, that is not for you right now if you're just starting up, but something to consider at a later stage and/or to up the security of your bitcoin. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, making is an expensive hot wallet. The opposite of what you want from a cold wallet. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. The same goes for many other hardware wallets that are too new or filled with too much of unnecessary shitcoin code. Stay away. There's also ColdCard, great features but recently had a massive duckup, I would wait until all of their code is fully open source, preferably rewritten by the community before touching it. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners or r/Bitcoin and look for the answers.

DaVirus

If you are using exchanges, just withdraw with LN. That makes it immediately untraceable

Sufficient_Ice5637

Update for anyone following this thread: since posting, found two confirmed cases elsewhere - a bot-impersonation scam on lnp2pBot (fake invoice mimicking the real bot's messages, independently corroborated by multiple other victims on Stacker News), and a second case on RoboSats exploiting its collaborative-cancel feature. Both are P2P Lightning trading platforms specifically - not the giveaway/investment-style scams I originally asked about, which you all gave pretty solid reasons for not really happening. That's actually led me in a new direction: both cases exploit trust in a specific bot/platform's own automated messages or mechanics, not a direct social-engineering pitch to a random victim. Given that pattern, are there other Lightning-native bots or automated services (tipping bots, subscription tools, other trading/exchange bots) that work similarly and could be vulnerable to the same kind of impersonation? Trying to figure out if this is specific to P2P trading tools or a broader shape of vulnerability across any LN-native bot.

Alfador8

Because LN has much faster settlement and lower fees.

Sufficient_Ice5637

Matches what I was thinking too . Smaller LN user base than Bitcoin overall, plus it needs a compatible wallet vs. a plain BTC address that works everywhere, so scammers sticking with the easier option tracks. But LN would be harder to trace since payments don't hit the public blockchain the way on-chain transfers do, so that gap could end up making it more attractive as adoption grows. Do you think scams on Lightning could actually become common once it's more mainstream and could be worth digging into later, or is there something that'd keep it unattractive to scammers even then?

Mushroombasics

Don't think so. Mainly because people who fall for those don't evenknow how to use LN

TheresNoSecondBest

Congrats on the move, it's never too late, [despite new people thinking otherwise](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rskpuf/i_have_only_600_bitcoinsi_missed_the_bus/). ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money by Lyn Alden. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick by investing into some website. They all are scammers. Even the hot Asian chick, he's a scammer too. **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. DCA is probably the best approach. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. This [DCA calculator](https://21vox.com/dca-calculator) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting too and compares buying bitcoin VS stocks. Now, don't buy some fake bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. **Good wallet choices:** [https://blockstream.com/app/](https://blockstream.com/app/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. **Lightning wallets** to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean. The app runs a full LND node on your phone and you have the ability to easily open channels to whatever nodes you like. [https://zeusln.com/](https://zeusln.com/) Zeus - impressive wallet with many features, can even generate Nostr keys [https://breez.technology](https://breez.technology/) \- Breez - excellent POS for small business owners as well as integrated Bitrefill Note: Breez does also a hybrid liquid/LN wallet called Misty Breez - the sats being on liquid means no need for channels although the payments take a few extra seconds. You'll also can get a free customable LN address. While talking about hybrid wallets, there's also Aqua Wallet although not IMHO as good as Misty Breez. There are also custodial LN wallet but I would honestly avoid using them because you have to trust the wallet operator not to steal your money. Their only advantage is that they are incredibly easy to use, although it might cost you big one day. To keep up to date with spending wallets, visit r/TheLightningNetwork at least once a while and perhaps r/RGB in the future. **Hardware Wallets** (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. If you can afford it, opt for Safe 7 (**air-gapped**) and use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor). Sadly, this device is **not air-gapped**. [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. There's a newer version called Jade Plus, it has much better camera and overall is a better build. I would go stateless instead of using their servers. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. [Krux wallet](https://selfcustody.github.io/krux/) - one more DIY hardware device, I love this one for many reasons. Similar to Seedsigner, it's fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, that is not for you right now if you're just starting up, but something to consider at a later stage and/or to up the security of your bitcoin. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, making is an expensive hot wallet. The opposite of what you want from a cold wallet. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. The same goes for many other hardware wallets that are too new or filled with too much of unnecessary shitcoin code. Stay away. There's also ColdCard, great features but recently had a massive duckup, I would wait until all of their code is fully open source, preferably rewritten by the community before touching it. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners or r/Bitcoin and look for the answers.

TheresNoSecondBest

Still a good time to plant a tree? Congrats on the move, it's never too late, [despite new people thinking otherwise](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rskpuf/i_have_only_600_bitcoinsi_missed_the_bus/). ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money by Lyn Alden. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick by investing into some website. They all are scammers. Even the hot Asian chick, he's a scammer too. **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. DCA is probably the best approach. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. This [DCA calculator](https://21vox.com/dca-calculator) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting too and compares buying bitcoin VS stocks. Now, don't buy some fake bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. **Good wallet choices:** [https://blockstream.com/app/](https://blockstream.com/app/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. **Lightning wallets** to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean. The app runs a full LND node on your phone and you have the ability to easily open channels to whatever nodes you like. [https://zeusln.com/](https://zeusln.com/) Zeus - impressive wallet with many features, can even generate Nostr keys [https://breez.technology](https://breez.technology/) \- Breez - excellent POS for small business owners as well as integrated Bitrefill Note: Breez does also a hybrid liquid/LN wallet called Misty Breez - the sats being on liquid means no need for channels although the payments take a few extra seconds. You'll also can get a free customable LN address. While talking about hybrid wallets, there's also Aqua Wallet although not IMHO as good as Misty Breez. There are also custodial LN wallet but I would honestly avoid using them because you have to trust the wallet operator not to steal your money. Their only advantage is that they are incredibly easy to use, although it might cost you big one day. To keep up to date with spending wallets, visit r/TheLightningNetwork at least once a while and perhaps r/RGB in the future. **Hardware Wallets** (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. If you can afford it, opt for Safe 7 (**air-gapped**) and use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor). Sadly, this device is **not air-gapped**. [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. There's a newer version called Jade Plus, it has much better camera and overall is a better build. I would go stateless instead of using their servers. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. [Krux wallet](https://selfcustody.github.io/krux/) - one more DIY hardware device, I love this one for many reasons. Similar to Seedsigner, it's fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, that is not for you right now if you're just starting up, but something to consider at a later stage and/or to up the security of your bitcoin. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, making is an expensive hot wallet. The opposite of what you want from a cold wallet. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. The same goes for many other hardware wallets that are too new or filled with too much of unnecessary shitcoin code. Stay away. There's also ColdCard, great features but recently had a massive duckup, I would wait until all of their code is fully open source, preferably rewritten by the community before touching it. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners or r/Bitcoin and look for the answers.

TheresNoSecondBest

There are two camps. One says the the transaction fees won't be enough to keep miners afloat. The other camp says the blocks will be constantly full and even opening a channel on t/thelightningnetwork will cost thousands of dollars worth of sats. The true is, Bitcoin regulates itself and 99,99% of times, this kind of scenario isn't happening. When the on-chain fees go up, people tend to learn more about and eventually use the LN. When the on-chain fees go down like we have right now, many users don't care about the LN. Free market works as intended. TLDR: I'm not worried about block subsidy decreasing at all. Bitcoin works as designed and everything will get sorted without people fiddling with it.

TheresNoSecondBest

>privacy The LN enhances privacy. The sender is actually getting the same privacy as using privacy shitcoins. Please, learn before spreading more nonsense. >And the cost to send a 1 million dollars worth of bitcoin over the lightning networks would be over 1000$ with just a few hops. Why would you use LN if you can send $1 million worth of bitcoin on-chain for about $1 fee?

TheresNoSecondBest

>That's the consensus since like 2011 Except we have r/thelightningnetwork since almost a decade ago. LN payments are as fast as card payments https://youtu.be/imSj7-BmFqQ >anyone telling you otherwise is lying to you. Anyone telling you that Bitcoin is too slow is probably trying to sell you their centralized shitcoin.

derbyfan1

If you have mixed your coins or popped them through the LN on different nodes, it will be almost impossible to track you down - Even with the IRS doing their blockchain shenanigans.

DangerHighVoltage111

Nothing of this fixes the L1 bottleneck that was installed to prohibit p2p use case. Self custodial L2 will break down with adoption since L1 can't even handle the on ramping onto L2. Like LN it will be mostly used custodial. This is just the next FOTM until the next L1 fee spike.

Aldhyabi

P2P Nano is better than currupted 0.1 LN

TheresNoSecondBest

Congrats on the move, it's never too late, [despite new people thinking otherwise](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rskpuf/i_have_only_600_bitcoinsi_missed_the_bus/). ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money by Lyn Alden. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick by investing into some website. They all are scammers. Even the hot Asian chick, he's a scammer too. **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. DCA is probably the best approach. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. This [DCA calculator](https://21vox.com/dca-calculator) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting too and compares buying bitcoin VS stocks. Now, don't buy some fake bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. **Good wallet choices:** [https://blockstream.com/app/](https://blockstream.com/app/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. **Lightning wallets** to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean. The app runs a full LND node on your phone and you have the ability to easily open channels to whatever nodes you like. [https://zeusln.com/](https://zeusln.com/) Zeus - impressive wallet with many features, can even generate Nostr keys [https://breez.technology](https://breez.technology/) \- Breez - excellent POS for small business owners as well as integrated Bitrefill Note: Breez does also a hybrid liquid/LN wallet called Misty Breez - the sats being on liquid means no need for channels although the payments take a few extra seconds. You'll also can get a free customable LN address. While talking about hybrid wallets, there's also Aqua Wallet although not IMHO as good as Misty Breez. There are also custodial LN wallet but I would honestly avoid using them because you have to trust the wallet operator not to steal your money. Their only advantage is that they are incredibly easy to use, although it might cost you big one day. To keep up to date with spending wallets, visit r/TheLightningNetwork at least once a while and perhaps r/RGB in the future. **Hardware Wallets** (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. If you can afford it, opt for Safe 7 (**air-gapped**) and use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor). Sadly, this device is **not air-gapped**. [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. There's a newer version called Jade Plus, it has much better camera and overall is a better build. I would go stateless instead of using their servers. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. [Krux wallet](https://selfcustody.github.io/krux/) - one more DIY hardware device, I love this one for many reasons. Similar to Seedsigner, it's fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, that is not for you right now if you're just starting up, but something to consider at a later stage and/or to up the security of your bitcoin. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, making is an expensive hot wallet. The opposite of what you want from a cold wallet. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. The same goes for many other hardware wallets that are too new or filled with too much of unnecessary shitcoin code. Stay away. There's also ColdCard, great features but recently had a massive duckup, I would wait until all of their code is fully open source, preferably rewritten by the community before touching it. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners or r/Bitcoin and look for the answers.

JumpProfessional3372

Advantages: it is instant, it gives you some privacy (I mean I understand the node knows you from which address the stuff is coming, but somebody you pay with LN doesn't know). Contras: it sometimes may be more expensive, for few transactions transfering lot of sats. Etc.

TheresNoSecondBest

Does it mean not working at all or you somehow still can pay a LN invoice? Because I've read MistyBreez simply stopped doing LN completely. It was a good solution for people not using LN that often.

TheresNoSecondBest

I'm using r/thelightningnetwork almost on a daily basis. I definitely prefer using it not just for fast and cheap TXs, the privacy part is IMHO it's best feature. LN or Bitcoin overall can be as complex as you want it to be.

TheresNoSecondBest

Does Aqua work without boltz? I thought they were using boltz for the LN/liquid swaps like MistyBreez.

TheresNoSecondBest

Congrats on the move, it's never too late, [despite new people thinking otherwise](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rskpuf/i_have_only_600_bitcoinsi_missed_the_bus/). ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money by Lyn Alden. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick by investing into some website. They all are scammers. Even the hot Asian chick, he's a scammer too. **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. DCA is probably the best approach. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. This [DCA calculator](https://21vox.com/dca-calculator) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting too and compares buying bitcoin VS stocks. Now, don't buy some fake bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. **Good wallet choices:** [https://blockstream.com/app/](https://blockstream.com/app/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. **Lightning wallets** to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean. The app runs a full LND node on your phone and you have the ability to easily open channels to whatever nodes you like. [https://zeusln.com/](https://zeusln.com/) Zeus - impressive wallet with many features, can even generate Nostr keys [https://breez.technology](https://breez.technology/) \- Breez - excellent POS for small business owners as well as integrated Bitrefill Note: Breez does also a hybrid liquid/LN wallet called Misty Breez - the sats being on liquid means no need for channels although the payments take a few extra seconds. You'll also can get a free customable LN address. While talking about hybrid wallets, there's also Aqua Wallet although not IMHO as good as Misty Breez. There are also custodial LN wallet but I would honestly avoid using them because you have to trust the wallet operator not to steal your money. Their only advantage is that they are incredibly easy to use, although it might cost you big one day. To keep up to date with spending wallets, visit r/TheLightningNetwork at least once a while and perhaps r/RGB in the future. **Hardware Wallets** (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. If you can afford it, opt for Safe 7 (**air-gapped**) and use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor). Sadly, this device is **not air-gapped**. [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. There's a newer version called Jade Plus, it has much better camera and overall is a better build. I would go stateless instead of using their servers. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. [Krux wallet](https://selfcustody.github.io/krux/) - one more DIY hardware device, I love this one for many reasons. Similar to Seedsigner, it's fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, that is not for you right now if you're just starting up, but something to consider at a later stage and/or to up the security of your bitcoin. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, making is an expensive hot wallet. The opposite of what you want from a cold wallet. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. The same goes for many other hardware wallets that are too new or filled with too much of unnecessary shitcoin code. Stay away. There's also ColdCard, great features but recently had a massive duckup, I would wait until all of their code is fully open source, preferably rewritten by the community before touching it. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners or r/Bitcoin and look for the answers.

JumpProfessional3372

But for example, if you open a big channel, like 1,500,000 sats you make, 15 payments (100,000 each) In both you need to pay some on-chain fees to open channel. In Phoenix you have to pay like 0.4% LN fee, but in Blixt with ACINQ, at least for 1 payment I made, i got charged like 0.1% LN fee. Does, this still mean the 0.3% saved is still charged somewhere else?

Complete-Metal-1990

love the daily data drops. L1 volume staying above 1.6 even when LN is dragging the index down is pretty telling. feels like on-chain activity is where the real action is right now you planning to keep this running daily or just when you have the time?

TheresNoSecondBest

Suggested Strike, River or Swan are good options. Anyway, congrats on the move, it's never too late, [despite new people thinking otherwise](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rskpuf/i_have_only_600_bitcoinsi_missed_the_bus/). ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money by Lyn Alden. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick by investing into some website. They all are scammers. Even the hot Asian chick, he's a scammer too. **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. DCA is probably the best approach. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. This [DCA calculator](https://21vox.com/dca-calculator) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting too and compares buying bitcoin VS stocks. Now, don't buy some fake bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. **Good wallet choices:** [https://blockstream.com/app/](https://blockstream.com/app/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. **Lightning wallets** to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean. The app runs a full LND node on your phone and you have the ability to easily open channels to whatever nodes you like. [https://zeusln.com/](https://zeusln.com/) Zeus - impressive wallet with many features, can even generate Nostr keys [https://breez.technology](https://breez.technology/) \- Breez - excellent POS for small business owners as well as integrated Bitrefill Note: Breez does also a hybrid liquid/LN wallet called Misty Breez - the sats being on liquid means no need for channels although the payments take a few extra seconds. You'll also can get a free customable LN address. While talking about hybrid wallets, there's also Aqua Wallet although not IMHO as good as Misty Breez. There are also custodial LN wallet but I would honestly avoid using them because you have to trust the wallet operator not to steal your money. Their only advantage is that they are incredibly easy to use, although it might cost you big one day. To keep up to date with spending wallets, visit r/TheLightningNetwork at least once a while and perhaps r/RGB in the future. **Hardware Wallets** (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. If you can afford it, opt for Safe 7 (**air-gapped**) and use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor). Sadly, this device is **not air-gapped**. [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. There's a newer version called Jade Plus, it has much better camera and overall is a better build. I would go stateless instead of using their servers. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. [Krux wallet](https://selfcustody.github.io/krux/) - one more DIY hardware device, I love this one for many reasons. Similar to Seedsigner, it's fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, that is not for you right now if you're just starting up, but something to consider at a later stage and/or to up the security of your bitcoin. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, making is an expensive hot wallet. The opposite of what you want from a cold wallet. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. The same goes for many other hardware wallets that are too new or filled with too much of unnecessary shitcoin code. Stay away. There's also ColdCard, great features but recently had a massive duckup, I would wait until all of their code is fully open source, preferably rewritten by the community before touching it. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners or r/Bitcoin and look for the answers.

BTCGlobeLive

Yes, and for exactly the reason you worked out yourself. The channel doesn't go inactive because Blixt is misconfigured, it goes inactive because the phone leaves the network every time the screen sleeps. A box that never sleeps stays connected, the peer never marks you inactive, and the phone becomes a remote control instead of being the node. There are two halves to the cost, and only one of them is small. The cheap half is on-chain, and right now it's about as cheap as it gets: 17,728 transactions waiting, roughly 4.4 vMB of mempool, 1.9 sat/vB for the next block and 0.4 if you can wait an hour. A channel open is around 150 vB, so call it 300 sats today, under 100 if you're patient, and you pay again to close it. That's not the bill. The expensive half is everything else. Money sits locked while the channel is open. You can only receive what the other side is holding, so inbound liquidity is the real constraint, not fees. Keys are hot on a machine that's online around the clock. And channel state is not in your seed - restoring an old backup can cost you the channel balance. That last one is the genuine difference from an on-chain wallet, and it's the part people underestimate. One practical thing: you can't move an existing channel. Going home means closing on the phone and opening fresh from the new node. For the record, home node yes, Lightning no - I priced that one out and parked it, because for how little I'd actually route, the locked capital and the inbound liquidity cost more than the convenience was worth to me. Your case is different though: you're already using LN from a phone, and you already ran into the exact symptom that a machine staying online fixes. Umbrel or Start9 if you want it packaged, plain LND with Zeus over Tor if you'd rather assemble it yourself.

BTCGlobeLive

Yes, and for exactly the reason you worked out yourself. The channel doesn't go inactive because Blixt is misconfigured, it goes inactive because the phone leaves the network every time the screen sleeps. A box that never sleeps stays connected, the peer never marks you inactive, and the phone becomes a remote control instead of being the node. There are two halves to the cost, and only one of them is small. The cheap half is on-chain, and right now it's about as cheap as it gets: 17,728 transactions waiting, roughly 4.4 vMB of mempool, 1.9 sat/vB for the next block and 0.4 if you can wait an hour. A channel open is around 150 vB, so call it 300 sats today, under 100 if you're patient, and you pay again to close it. That's not the bill. The expensive half is everything else. Money sits locked while the channel is open. You can only receive what the other side is holding, so inbound liquidity is the real constraint, not fees. Keys are hot on a machine that's online around the clock. And channel state is not in your seed - restoring an old backup can cost you the channel balance. That last one is the genuine difference from an on-chain wallet, and it's the part people underestimate. One practical thing: you can't move an existing channel. Going home means closing on the phone and opening fresh from the new node. For the record, home node yes, Lightning no - I priced that one out and parked it, because for how little I'd actually route, the locked capital and the inbound liquidity cost more than the convenience was worth to me. Your case is different though: you're already using LN from a phone, and you already ran into the exact symptom that a machine staying online fixes. Umbrel or Start9 if you want it packaged, plain LND with Zeus over Tor if you'd rather assemble it yourself.

JumpProfessional3372

Can this be improved if I run a home node of LN or something like that? (So the app just connects to it rather than having the node in the phone).

TheresNoSecondBest

Congrats on the move, it's never too late, [despite new people thinking otherwise](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rskpuf/i_have_only_600_bitcoinsi_missed_the_bus/). ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money by Lyn Alden. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick by investing into some website. They all are scammers. Even the hot Asian chick, he's a scammer too. **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. DCA is probably the best approach. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. This [DCA calculator](https://21vox.com/dca-calculator) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting too and compares buying bitcoin VS stocks. Now, don't buy some fake bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. **Good wallet choices:** [https://blockstream.com/app/](https://blockstream.com/app/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. **Lightning wallets** to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean. The app runs a full LND node on your phone and you have the ability to easily open channels to whatever nodes you like. [https://zeusln.com/](https://zeusln.com/) Zeus - impressive wallet with many features, can even generate Nostr keys [https://breez.technology](https://breez.technology/) \- Breez - excellent POS for small business owners as well as integrated Bitrefill Note: Breez does also a hybrid liquid/LN wallet called Misty Breez - the sats being on liquid means no need for channels although the payments take a few extra seconds. You'll also can get a free customable LN address. While talking about hybrid wallets, there's also Aqua Wallet although not IMHO as good as Misty Breez. There are also custodial LN wallet but I would honestly avoid using them because you have to trust the wallet operator not to steal your money. Their only advantage is that they are incredibly easy to use, although it might cost you big one day. To keep up to date with spending wallets, visit r/TheLightningNetwork at least once a while and perhaps r/RGB in the future. **Hardware Wallets** (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. If you can afford it, opt for Safe 7 (**air-gapped**) and use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor). Sadly, this device is **not air-gapped**. [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. There's a newer version called Jade Plus, it has much better camera and overall is a better build. I would go stateless instead of using their servers. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. [Krux wallet](https://selfcustody.github.io/krux/) - one more DIY hardware device, I love this one for many reasons. Similar to Seedsigner, it's fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, that is not for you right now if you're just starting up, but something to consider at a later stage and/or to up the security of your bitcoin. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, making is an expensive hot wallet. The opposite of what you want from a cold wallet. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. The same goes for many other hardware wallets that are too new or filled with too much of unnecessary shitcoin code. Stay away. There's also ColdCard, great features but recently had a massive duckup, I would wait until all of their code is fully open source, preferably rewritten by the community before touching it. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners or r/Bitcoin and look for the answers.

CadmeusCain

You have been conned. Bip 110 did not have 20% of the nodes. It did not even have 2.5% of the Hashrate since the majority of Ocean mined the main chain. It had zero exchange, developer, or business support. Only a small loud minority on Twitter supported it. Bip 110's failure PROVES that Bitcoin is decentralized. A small minority was not able to force their change onto the network If you are not technical, then try to learn more before you decide that Bip 110 was good or bad. The majority of the community agrees that spam is bad, just like the majority of the community agreed Bitcoin needed to scale before 2017. It took years for the community to agree on SegWit and LN and along the way, 100s of inferior scaling options were tried, argued, and discarded. I know because I was around at the time. Bip 110 categorically did not solve spam and would have broken several transaction types. Instead of working with the community to revise the proposal into something sensible, the Bip 110 proponents tried to force it on the community and failed. To hell with them It's not over. The work to reduce spam will continue. Hopefully the next proposal is something better

DangerHighVoltage111

BTC is mostly used custodial on LN. That's neither sound nor original. Satoshi is a Big Blocker. BCH is probably our only chance for sound p2p cash. Maybe XMR the second.

Objective_Digit

> Imagine if the entire world had to wait up to an hour for a payment to be considered final. That’s not a serious replacement for everyday money. Since when did it take an hour? And on chain will be used for the most critical uses in the future. L2 is permitted for the dollar. Which doesn't even have its own native network of any kind. Why can't Bitcoin use it? You brought up LN to begin with. Don't start using the g"oalposts" thing again.

Risky_Sandwich

I know that. But if BTCpay server can play with your keys, the attack surface becomes larger. Same if you tack on any other service, like automated node management, or whatever. I already expect that LND or CLN or Eclair cannot be totally bug free. But with all those services interacting with LN wallets, there are bound to be some massive bugs coming out in the near future that will result in loss of funds as well. These are hot wallets after all..

FragrantLunatic

> BTCPay Server is not a LN wallet. It's a self hosted bitcoin payment processor that you run alongside your lightning node. LN wallets would be like Phoenix and Wallet of Satoshi. yea i was wondering. i had no desire to google btcpay

FunWithSkooma

some people dont even know that LN exists, it pretty sad.

tadnarosix

BTCPay Server is not a LN wallet. It's a self hosted bitcoin payment processor that you run alongside your lightning node. LN wallets would be like Phoenix and Wallet of Satoshi.

Risky_Sandwich

First post I have seen about LN wallets being threatened by this. I was wondering how long it would take.

TechCynical

Yeah all 5 people and some bots. Don't worry it'll only cost everything you saved to withdraw from the LN. You could have saved the same amount by using any other L2 with USDC or wbtc.

TheresNoSecondBest

Congrats on the move, it's never too late, [despite new people thinking otherwise](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rskpuf/i_have_only_600_bitcoinsi_missed_the_bus/). ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money by Lyn Alden. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick by investing into some website. They all are scammers. Even the hot Asian chick, he's a scammer too. **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. DCA is probably the best approach. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. This [DCA calculator](https://21vox.com/dca-calculator) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting too and compares buying bitcoin VS stocks. Now, don't buy some fake bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. **Good wallet choices:** [https://blockstream.com/app/](https://blockstream.com/app/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. **Lightning wallets** to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean. The app runs a full LND node on your phone and you have the ability to easily open channels to whatever nodes you like. [https://zeusln.com/](https://zeusln.com/) Zeus - impressive wallet with many features, can even generate Nostr keys [https://breez.technology](https://breez.technology/) \- Breez - excellent POS for small business owners as well as integrated Bitrefill Note: Breez does also a hybrid liquid/LN wallet called Misty Breez - the sats being on liquid means no need for channels although the payments take a few extra seconds. You'll also can get a free customable LN address. While talking about hybrid wallets, there's also Aqua Wallet although not IMHO as good as Misty Breez. There are also custodial LN wallet but I would honestly avoid using them because you have to trust the wallet operator not to steal your money. Their only advantage is that they are incredibly easy to use, although it might cost you big one day. To keep up to date with spending wallets, visit r/TheLightningNetwork at least once a while and perhaps r/RGB in the future. **Hardware Wallets** (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. If you can afford it, opt for Safe 7 (**air-gapped**) and use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor). Sadly, this device is **not air-gapped**. [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. There's a newer version called Jade Plus, it has much better camera and overall is a better build. I would go stateless instead of using their servers. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. [Krux wallet](https://selfcustody.github.io/krux/) - one more DIY hardware device, I love this one for many reasons. Similar to Seedsigner, it's fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, that is not for you right now if you're just starting up, but something to consider at a later stage and/or to up the security of your bitcoin. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, making is an expensive hot wallet. The opposite of what you want from a cold wallet. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. The same goes for many other hardware wallets that are too new or filled with too much of unnecessary shitcoin code. Stay away. There's also ColdCard, great features but recently had a massive duckup, I would wait until all of their code is fully open source, preferably rewritten by the community before touching it. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners or r/Bitcoin and look for the answers.

diradder

So we agree that Bitcoin is not matching the standard/legal definition of a Ponzi. But your expanded "Ponzi-like" definition still seems vague to me. By your logic, any non-cash-flow asset that appreciates through market demand would be labeled "Ponzi-like", unless they meet an arbitrary level of "consumer demand"? That's broad and arbitrary enough enough that it could still include gold (almost half of the annual demand is speculation+central banks, last time I've checked), art, collectibles, **and even money itself**... at this point your definition feels more like a rhetorical insult that you've curtailed for Bitcoin because you've decided that the "consumer demand" isn't sufficient. Meanwhile people transact on Bitcoin, have censorship-resistant and permissionless **access** to it (that's not really related to scarcity, not sure why you've suggested that), value the fact that it has a fixed supply and has been respected its emission schedule since launch 17 years ago. They extend their usage to multiple higher layer networks (LN, Liqduid, RSK) backed by Bitcoin's network/security... so participants see some utility here and derive some value out of it, that's "consumer demand" too. Are we just ignoring them? At which level exactly do you stop calling it "Ponzi-like"? Any attempt at building something that attracts speculation will also be put down as "Ponzi-like" until they have a certain level of adoption? Lastly scarcity can be a form of value creation when it is credible, costly to replicate, and embedded in a useful network. Bitcoin's track record, its network effect built over the years, and its ability to preserve its rules based on (in part) this scarcity argument match these requirements. So I'm not sure why you claim that it cannot "create" value, unless you mean it in the way that it's not a proposition that will infinitely create value for Bitcoin. But that would be a useful definition only if you want to frame Bitcoin as a "productive asset" that requires this constant revenue generation... when it's not, it's a monetary asset that people have currently chosen to speculate with.

LocomotiveMedical

Typical LN nodes don’t subscribe to an automatically updating tainted coin list which would stop this

TheresNoSecondBest

Exodus isn't fully open source, I would uninstall that asap. Congrats on the move, it's never too late, [despite new people thinking otherwise](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rskpuf/i_have_only_600_bitcoinsi_missed_the_bus/). ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money by Lyn Alden. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick by investing into some website. They all are scammers. Even the hot Asian chick, he's a scammer too. **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. DCA is probably the best approach. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. This [DCA calculator](https://21vox.com/dca-calculator) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting too and compares buying bitcoin VS stocks. Now, don't buy some fake bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. **A few good wallet choices:** [https://blockstream.com/app/](https://blockstream.com/app/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. **Lightning wallets** to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean. The app runs a full LND node on your phone and you have the ability to easily open channels to whatever nodes you like. [https://zeusln.com/](https://zeusln.com/) Zeus - impressive wallet with many features, can even generate Nostr keys [https://breez.technology](https://breez.technology/) \- Breez - excellent POS for small business owners as well as integrated Bitrefill Note: Breez does also a hybrid liquid/LN wallet called Misty Breez - the sats being on liquid means no need for channels although the payments take a few extra seconds. You'll also can get a free customable LN address. While talking about hybrid wallets, there's also Aqua Wallet although not IMHO as good as Misty Breez. There are also custodial LN wallet but I would honestly avoid using them because you have to trust the wallet operator not to steal your money. Their only advantage is that they are incredibly easy to use, although it might cost you big one day. To keep up to date with spending wallets, visit r/TheLightningNetwork at least once a while and perhaps r/RGB in the future. **Hardware Wallets** (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. If you can afford it, opt for Safe 7 (air-gapped) and use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [ColdCard](https://coldcardwallet.com/) - air gapped, Bitcoin only, has advanced features but a new user will do fine with one of the great tutorials available. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor). Sadly, this device is not air-gapped. [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. There's a newer version called Jade Plus, it has much better camera and overall is a better, although a bit more expensive, option. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. [Krux wallet](https://selfcustody.github.io/krux/) - one more DIY hardware device, I love this one for many reasons. Similar to Seedsigner, it's fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, that is not for you right now if you're just starting up, but something to consider at a later stage and/or to up the security of your bitcoin. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, making is an expensive hot wallet. The opposite of what you want from a cold wallet. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. The same goes for many other hardware wallets that are too new or filled with too much of unnecessary shitcoin code. Stay away. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners or r/Bitcoin and look for the answers.

bitcoineybitcoiner

I know all about Lightning and I run a node already. But lightning has tradeoffs I don't always like. I'm a big fan of LN but let's not pretend it's ideal - we should always be looking for other ways to scale in parallel.

diradder

LN on BlueWallet has always been custodial by default, but you could use your own node by setting it up manually. Now they are [sunsetting their custodial service](https://bluewallet.io/sunsetting-lndhub/) and you will eventually need your own node if you want to keep using BlueWallet for LN. There are alternatives though, like Phoenix (my preference for now it's non-custodial, you run the LN node on mobile and they handle the channel creations, Loop In and Loop Out if you need to do anything on-chain for a small fee + network fee). Breez or Muun are decent alternatives too.

3utt5lut

No I mean, if you're buying BTC (on exchange), through a funds transfer, you will pay more in fees (withdrawl) and sending (especially if the network is considerably clogged like it has been), just from point A to Point B. A LTC transfer with a swap at the final destination would be significantly cheaper in this regard. This is an alternate route to bypass extensive fees and/or gas, trying to secure your investment on hardware. Of course you could just wait until the network isn't busy or use LN or L2s, but not everyone is as crafty in that sense. I personally want my crypto secured asap, fuck the cost, but if I could save 5% by using an alternate method, it adds up over time. Keep in mind, not everyone has the luxury of having a 1st World currency that can absorb the fees.

eyeoft

Uhh, after an LN payment, the payee HAS the sats. It may not be confirmed on-chain yet but it's irreversible. My reading did not imply that Ark makes that guarantee.

Amber_Sam

Congrats on the move, it's never too late. ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick and read this short guide, please: **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, nor next week.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least first year**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding garbage tokens just because someone on YT told them to. Going DCA is probably the best approach, IMHO. Bitcoin to me, is a savings account. If I have some spare cash, I exchange it for SATs. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. If there's a 10% drop in the price since my last buy, I usually double my buy. This [DCA calculator](https://dcabtc.com/) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. Now, don't buy a fake Bitcoin at etoro or similar, get the real thing. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. A few good wallet choices: [https://blockstream.com/green/](https://blockstream.com/green/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. Lightning wallets to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for very small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - rapidly becoming my favourite LN wallet [https://breez.technology](https://breez.technology/) \- Breez - excellent POS for small business owners as well as integrated Bitrefill or LN Pizza Hardware Wallets (to store larger amounts): [https://trezor.io/](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. [https://coldcardwallet.com/](https://coldcardwallet.com/) \- ColdCard is currently the safest and most recommended here. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend as not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable or sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, etc. Stay away. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different than the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey.

DaVirus

I think that is his point. For LN to give you full benefits, it needs to be available to everyone, not just technical people. I have ran a LN node in the past successfully but it is a pain and a stress.

TheJudgeXD

Confirmations take 5 seconds. Finality takes 10 minutes (a block). Technically LN payments are not final until settled on L1 either, so it's the same thing.

eyeoft

>Users need to wait for on-chain confirmations to consider a payment ‘final’. Found that in the link. As compared to LN that's a severe downside.

garrulous_theory

Because of the current high fee environment, Muun has dropped to second place for this scenario. I have been trying Phoenix, and it seems to fit in seamlessly where Muun was in my example. I don’t think there is any way to associate my identity with a LN destination, but I could be missing something.

Schwacolyte

I wish there was more discussion around this very point. To that end, it would be awesome if there was more participation on the use bitcoins sites. Also, LN makes this more feasible. Just need to figure out how to keep growing participation.

garrulous_theory

Nice find! Thanks for pointing it out. Because it is denominated in USD and not BTC, and the case can be made that I never “disposed of” bitcoin for the transaction, there should be no kyc/tax implications. Also, can the LN destination recorded be linked at all to an individual or company?

garrulous_theory

There was a recent UI change, but I just checked, and there are still only two categories; cash and bitcoin. Paying a LN invoice with your dollar balance shows in cash not bitcoin. Here is an example of me buying meat from my butcher with my dollar balance via a LN invoice from the butcher. This is in the cash column not the bitcoin one: https://i.imgur.com/oogtmy1.jpg Do you have a screenshot where you get different behavior?

zqrt

Nice! Acquiring inbound liquidity is the most beginner unfriendly thing about LN imo. Wonder what trade offs Ark makes.

genjitenji

The world’s billions of people can’t all just suddenly transact on LN if they need to wait hundreds of years to be on-boarded from layer 1 bitcoin. Is this mass adoption?

UnderpaidBIGtime

What's the fee to open a LN channel?

medialAxis

What's the problem? I mean most people who don't get bitcoin also likely don't know what a percentile is, and likely think Python is some sort of snake. Besides, what matters is how fast LN is, and you can only really know that by trying it.

One_2_Three

I had an LN node running with 7 open channels holding 10million sats. I was making about 5-10 sats a day routing payments. You need to have a massive node and be well connected to make real revenue. Even then, you are not covering costs. Also, wait until the mempool empties or wait for the fee rate to drop a bit more. It's a couple of bucks to open a few channels RN. You run an LN node for your own uses, be your own bank. Don't expect to make any money.

IndependentPrimary89

How much money can someone make running a LN node on a raspberry pi? Will it cover at least its electricity cost?

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Bitcoin payment service provider BitPay has integrated Brave Wallet into its payment protocol, allowing crypto wallet users to make payments straight from the privacy browser. Users of Brave Wallet will be able to shop with crypto at thousands of top merchants online and in-store, such as Newegg, APMEX, PacSun, AMC Theatres, and airBaltic. BitPay CEO Stephen Pai said the company had recorded a notable uptick in crypto payments in 2022, with strong interest in accepting crypto payments by major retailers and brands, especially high-end brands, even during market turmoil. The company has processed over $1 million in BTC payments over Lightning since adding support for Bitcoin LN payments in April 2022. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*

Fbastiat1850

None of my LN transactions were bothered in the least. Nor was my cold storage.

Relai_Alex

Unfortunately, to make Relai the easiest app, they still use a sinlge address. I usually send the sats out to my LN and hardware wallets once in a while, when the fees are low.

reddituserVibez

when i send them through LN my identity is still connected to the sats? when i send them to a lightning wallet and then back to my bitbox, you still can identify where the sats came from and where the gone? or am i missing something?

Bitcoin_Maximalist

you could also mix the coins on joinmarket or send the funds through LN

jxcczpkfby

Strike subreddit is r/LN_strike/ but it's pretty dead there.

Relai_Alex

The r/Relai_app team is working on it day and night - they're locked in the office, getting pizza in through the [letterbox](https://youtu.be/6lMtpAx7sbU). I've been told approximately 21,000,000 times (yes, that's how many times I have already asked the WenLightning question), LN on Relai before the Bitcoin Halving.

clue5tick

Just checked again (I'm fallible). Yup, $299.00 Bitcoin 2024 General Admission. Also checked their payment processor IBEX: "*a bitcoin infrastructure company specialized in Lightning Network (LN) enterprise solutions."* "*IBEXPAY: Accept Bitcoin Lightning Payments, save on fees, and convert to FIAT."* IOW folks, they take your good BTC, and turn it into convieeenient fiat for the corporate community and investment speculators. Yes, I do question their commitment.

Bitcoin_Maximalist

> No LN yet, but SoonTM hurry guys!

bittabet

Can work without them just requires everyone to be online like LN

DesmondNav

Sure but what are you running except for Bitcoin and LN that takes up so much

Halo22B

So your concern is that soon we will be unable to purchase a watch 1/7th as crappy as the one you just bought...on the main chain mind you. And for this we need to all freak out. You then solve your own dillema by mentioning two possible solutions (soft fork and LN) I gotta ask, how much was your TX fee on 1.07?

Relai_Alex

I'm also living in the UK and use Relai.app (shameless plug) since 2020. All you need is an EUR or CHF account - easy and free to accomplish with Revolut. Or use a card with good exchange rates. Relai isn't asking for an ID if the customer buys up to €900, but there's a kind of KYC happening from the details linked to their IBAN. Also, the company set zero fees on the first €100 buys, each month. No LN yet, but SoonTM. Android app, easy to use (my 68 years old neighbor is using it too), the sats go straight to your custody. Seriously, the easiest way to buy and self custody in Europe.

borg_6s

Personally I think it's quite damning that we haven't worked out how to send LN-BTC flawlessly on a desktop (Electrum doesn't always work with that, but mobile has plenty of LN wallets making this a non-issue for it).

Relai_Alex

Thank you, will definitely explore. To be an ASP, does it mean like opening a channel on LN? Any wallets we can test it out?

HappyBear_btc

what's your opinion on this: "Users can unilaterally redeem a virtual utxo for an on-chain utxo without asking for ASP cooperation" it is similar to a LN channel, do you call ⚡a shitcoin as well?

NonTokeableFungin

Do you really see Stablecoins coming onto Bitcoin ? Will there be enough capacity on the chain ? I’m having a really tough time seeing how Bitcoin can be competitive in, say 10-15 yrs. Since Tx Fees will need to be extremely high, compared to any other solution. LN ? - Seems everyone is quite eager to hand over their keys to 3rd parties. Very few actually using LN with *self custody*. Sorta defeats the whole point of crypto, yeah ? And capacity on LN also a grave question.

MichaelAischmann

Have you ever paid a LN invoice with BTC? Easy peasy lemon squeezy & fast af.

rosarino356

ChatGPT is great at ELI5: Imagine you and your friends want to trade toys with each other, but instead of giving each toy individually, you decide to use a special toy-sharing system called the Lightning network. In this network, you all create a shared toy box. Each time you want to trade a toy, you don't have to tell everyone in the group directly. Instead, you write down a note saying which toy you want to give and who should receive it. Now, here's the cool part: you don't have to give the note to every person in the group. You can pass it to a friend who is closer to the person you want to trade with. That friend can pass it on to the next person, and so on, until the note reaches the person who should receive the toy. This way, you can trade toys quickly and easily without having to involve everyone in the group or ask for permission from a central authority. The note acts like a promise, saying that you will give your toy to the person mentioned on the note. When all the trading is done, you can settle everything at once by looking at the notes. If there is a problem or disagreement, you can use the earlier notes as proof to make sure everyone gets the right toys. The Lightning network works similarly with Bitcoin. It allows people to make quick and inexpensive transactions without needing to involve the entire Bitcoin network every time. Instead, they create special payment channels between themselves and use these channels to exchange Bitcoin. These channels act like the shared toy box and the notes in our toy-sharing example. By using the Lightning network, people can make many transactions off the main Bitcoin network, making it faster and more efficient. It's like having a super-fast toy-sharing system for Bitcoin! ​ Here's more info about the LN: [https://academy.binance.com/en/articles/what-is-lightning-network](https://academy.binance.com/en/articles/what-is-lightning-network)

solomonsatoshi

Lightning enables mass scale transactions but agree it compromises self custody. Hold your savings Bitcoin and use LN for transactions?

grapthor

>He claims Did he? Did he make that claim, or are other websites making that claim about him, because CoinTelegraph also reported that he was “the first” Presidential candidate to accept Bitcoin donations (didn't mention LN), but didn't attribute it to him as a quote. Not to defend the guy, he ain't getting any money from me, but if this is a claim being falsely made by news sites then they deserve to be called out for shitty reporting and investigation.

SmoothGoing

Misleading. Not the first. And accepts fiat via LN payment processor, not bitcoin.

Dont_Say_No_to_Panda

I said *cash* balances. Strike is trying to get normie customers transferring fiat to fiat (using LN)—a great idea if you ask me—but just saying “NYKNYC” is not going to convert anyone from that space when other methods are backstopped by protections and regulations that mean their money isn’t going to disappear in a collapse or jack mallers boating accident.

bullett007

Bottlepay’s fee is 1%, which ads up over time. Use Kraken Pro and it’s 0.2%, withdraw via LN to Muun for free, then, send to cold storage for as close to 1sat as the mempool will allow.

bittabet

Yes, the neat thing is that you can now use a cash balance to pay LN invoices and they’ll automatically convert and send it and vice versa. So you can hodl BTC and pay USD invoices or hodl USD and pay BTC invoices or have both. A lot of folks don’t quite trust holding BTC so being able to hodl USD will get them into the ecosystem and then when they want to HODL it’ll be a piece of cake.

bullett007

Was thinking the same as you, my DCA flow is buy from Kraken, withdraw to Muun for 0 cost, forward to cold storage for 1sat/vbyte. I have a node, but honestly I don’t want to manage channels and deal with balancing and all that stuff. I’ve tried it a few times and inbound liquidity/no routes to target address is ALWAYS a problem. I bought a Jade HWW recently to try out and it has me curious about L-BTC, but beyond that I haven’t done the research, ideally opening a LN channel to Kraken would solve the problem of getting sats from there to here, but then looping-out sats from the node to cold storage would be another transaction, so then I might as well have withdrawn onchain direct from Kraken which defeats the purpose.

CointestMod

#Nano Con-Arguments Below is a Nano con-argument written by pashtun92. > # A bearish case for Nano: a discussion about bitcoin's scalability and a comparison of Nano with other altcoins. > > Disclaimer: This argument has been used by myself in the last round. I have updated some of the arguments. > > Update: today nano has fallen out of top 200 coin! > > The arguments I have seen in this subreddit are always the same boring arguments: It is fast, free and compared with bitcoin it takes less energy. Nano proponants have entire graphs of electricity use and metaphors to "strenghten" their case. What they forget to mention is that it is exactly this high electricity cost which provides the security of bitcoin. I dare say that bitcoin is the most secured blockchain in the world. Aside from perhaps ethereum, I don't think there is any crypto which has transaction volumes of over billions of USD's. For good reason, mind you. > > Now let's dive deeper into the arguments provided by nano proponants. What I always find interesting, is that nano proponants always claim that bitcoin "is not scalable", knowing full well that this is not the truth. By now, anyone in the space knows of the L2 solution for bitcoin, the lightning network, which does exactly the same as nano does: giving instant and practically free transactions. > > However, when you mention this to a nano proponant, they always come back with the same boring argument: "Ya but there is only 7 TPS in the main chain layer, therefore, L2 is not scalable, as you would need on-chain transactions to open and close LN channels". This is false, I dare say even FUD, as we have something called the lightning channel factories which can scale LN to support the entire world. They are not yet in use, as LN has not reached it's capacity yet. > > The nano proponant proceeds with more FUD: "Ya but LN has many security issues, there is the famous flood & loot attack, you should google it". What the nano proponant either don't know, or as I would expect from them, consciously omit is that we already have a sort of "firewall" for this attack and this problem has been fixed. I suspect consciously because they always claim bitcoin is not scalable when this is obviously false and they know that too. > > So the conclusion we can draw from here is that nano holds no competitive advantage over bitcoin. In contrast, bitcoin DOES hold competitive advantages over nano. For one, the micropayments possible with LN (e.g. paying equivalanet of 0.001 dollar) opens the way to revolutionazing finance and how companies operate. For example, right now all podcast makers have to find "sponsers" to earn money with the podcast. But now it is possible to listen to podcasts through LN, making 0.001 dollar payment per minute, which is nothing for the listener, but can amount to a significant sum for the podcast creator. You could also do something like 'pay for what you watch' as opposed to having a subscription of 10 dollar/month even if you don't use it. > > Aside from this, there are also many other things you can do with LN which I will only briefly touch but link to here: > > It is possible to send messages (app like or email) through LN, completely private and encrypted > > Use atomic multipad payments (AMP) to send FILES through nodes in LN (e.g. an audio file) > > Call someone without anyone ever knowing through LN and even send money over if you wish so > > Decentralised finance (lending & borrowing bitcoin specifically) > > Earn satoshi's through playing games > > We also have important updates coming to the bitcoin network such as Schorr Signatures, RGB and possibly Eltoo. This would make the use of smart contracts very easy on bitcoin and pave the way for DEFI similar to the scale of ETH and others. > > What I find interesting about nano proponant is that they never, NEVER compare nano to other altcoins in their "bull case for nano". Why is this you may ask? The answer is obvious: anyone would immediatly notice that other altcoins can do what nano can and have much better functionality, use cases and backing. All nano can do is transact value from A to B, free and cheap. Let's take a look at a small list of other coins which can do pretty much the same, but also have the potential of DEFI: > > Ethereum (In DEFI, king of security) > > Solana ( In DEFI king of speed) > > Cardano ( In DEFI king of decentralisation) > > XLM > > IOTA > > ALGO > > Yet the nano proponant will claim that nano is undervalued, when it has no competitive advantage whatsoever. Some of them will claim that it is best used for "day to day transactions". Like outlined above, one could easily use LN for that and much more, making nano obsolete. Or if a person was keen on privacy, he or she would use monero for day to day transactions - which is as we all know the king of privacy. > > Nano proponant have a dream that some day it will overtop bitcoin. However, the truth is much harsher. For one, nano used to be a top 10 coin in 2017. Now it temporarily fell out of top 100 just a few months ago. I speculate that this downward trend will continue and nano will drop out of top 100 by the next bull cycle. In my opinion the only reason nano shillers shill this coin is because of personal greed and not fundamentals or use cases. We are living in 2021 and not 2017. We expect more from a coin than just being cheap and fast. > > Tl;dr: Nano has no competitive advantage or whatsover. It is claimed to be fast and cheap, which is true, however the same applies to L2 LN of bitcoin and many other altcoins. Aside from this, LN and other altcoins provide us with many more fuctionalities and use cases, making nano an obsolete coin of 2017. > > Nano spam attack: Because of its non-existant fees, it makes the network susceptible to a Sybil attack. Not mentioned in my original post, but add security risk to another con of nano network. This is proof to me that nano would never function as a global reserve currency. Link: Nano’s Network Flooded With Spam, Nodes Out of Sync (coindesk.com) ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Nano) to find submissions for other topics.

trashcleaner

It could be a LN withdrawal coupon. Similar to what you can create on LNbits. Basically a QR code which you scan with your lightning wallet and then you receive the amount.

Relai_Alex

The Relai_app team is working on it day and night - they're locked in the office, getting pizza in through the [letterbox](https://youtu.be/6lMtpAx7sbU). I've been told 21,000,000 times (yes, that's how many times I have already asked the WenLightning question), LN on Relai before the next Bitcoin Halving.

Bitcoin_Maximalist

why should people not point out LN? x-D

QuestionTheeElite

The following opinion is strictly an opinion and should not be misinterpreted as financial or investment advice. The accuracy of this information can not be guaranteed. However, I hope it encourages you to do some research. Mods, before you consider removing this post, please reference this Wikipedia article Bitcoin Scalability Problem and remember you have an obligation to allow others to hear opinions, even if they are unpopular. Anyways, I recently did some research on BTC and developed the unpopular opinion that BTC’s scalability problem is shocking and those that believe it is the “golden standard” of cryptocurrency should learn a lot more about BTC’s problems. BTC has a major scaling problem. BTC can only process between 3-7 transactions per second for each block that gets created (one block gets created every 10 minutes) here are some calculations for what that means: Worst case scenario: 3 transactions / second * 60 seconds / minute * 10 minutes = processing 1,800 transactions per block (one BTC block is created every 10 minutes). Best case scenario: 7 transactions / second * 60 seconds/ minute * 10 minutes = processing 4,200 transactions per block (one BTC block is created every 10 minutes). If your transaction doesn’t get processed, the blockchain gets backed up and can take your transaction up to 14 days to timeout and fail or possibly succeed. Once you send BTC, you can’t cancel it. You have to wait for the BTC transaction to either timeout/fail or succeed. Worst case scenario (3 transactions per second) is just as likely as the best case scenario above for on-chain transaction processing since the Segwit, Taproot, and Oridinals further limit transaction processing capabilities for each BTC block. Why limit BTC transactions? One reason is mining BTC is expensive, which ultimately minimizes access to BTC’s network and can drive up fees and increase profits overtime. This is how you see someone recently choosing to pay 15k in fees to move 3.4 BTC not long ago. Ultimately, they decided to do that, but BTC has changed a lot since the project was created and Satoshi published the Bitcoin white paper. Lightning Network (LN) does not necessarily solve BTC’s scalability problem as the LN is still considered experimental. That means there is no one to call or talk to about getting your BTC back if a LN bug causes the transaction to fail, a channel closes while the BTC is in transit, or any other reason the BTC is not received. Again, Lightning Network is still experimental. After learning this, I feel like relying on Lightning Network is almost as risky as keeping your BTC on a centralized exchange (CEX). That is risky too because centralized exchanges can fail at anytime and the customers rarely get everything they are owed back (FTX, Voyager, and Mt Gox). If you still like BTC, great! Please do not ask the governments or everyday citizens for help or a bailout. This is a sober reminder that cryptocurrency is risky. Again, this is not financial or investment advice. The reason I’m posting about this limitation is because I recently learned about it and BTC holders need to remember the blockchain has very real limitations related to processing transactions.

encryptzee

Just set up my first LN wallet, Wallet of Satoshi. I'm trying to send sats from kraken but I can't find the LN-URL required by the exchange. WoS only shows an LN email address which the exchange doesn't recognize as a valid LN address. Am I missing something?

Bitcoin_Maximalist

many of these sites are scams. use Joinmarket and try to use LN as much as possible

RockyMountain_Jeeper

What else could you say? I mean, if you knew anything about LN or BTC you'd come back with actual points. But alas. Not.

RockyMountain_Jeeper

LN is literally not that. It IS one of the bigger threats to BTC in that it amplifies centralization. I don't even believe they've solved routing yet so at some point we'll see one or two huge assed hubs that nearly all payments will route through out of sheer need to do so. You can't have BTC on L2 if L1 is captured and neutered.

Jankylad

> And what's the problem? Bitcoin could be mined with two raspberry pis if the rest of the miners don't consider it economically viable, the past of the chain won't be able to vi modified, the work has already been put on it. The problem is that the network wouldn't be secure if it was mined with two raspberry pis. Anyone with some resources could take control over the network or attack it. >My channels have been there for a year now and they work like a charm on LN, there's time to add liquidity to a liquidity network, your prediction of "it won't scale" will become truth sooner or later, but when it does another solution would have been found already. Dude the fees have been as high as 70 USD back in 2017 and recently they were 30 USD. All from relatively small pushes in activity. That's the network not being able to scale already. We're not talking in hypotheticals. The BTC chain has proven multiple times that it can't handle activity. You guys keep saying the problems will be solved in the future, because you're cultists trying to sell an idea. >You can either stay on that position that Bitcoin will never scale and nobody will ever use it, or you can simply use it and stop caring if it scales or not because the most important property of Bitcoin is not being a payments network but a solid monetary base. It's not a solid monetary base though. The amount of users who can use it are laughable and they're forced to trust exchanges and centralised solutions because the network can't handle real activity. That's not a solid monetary base if we're talking anything outside of a super niche internet funny money meme.

jk_14r

because Binace is Cancer They simply prefer to earn big bucks at the expense of Bitcoin and Lightning Network adoption, whole story. Bitfinex implemented LN support in September 2020... Ceterum Censeo: Binance is Cancer.