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Squid Grow 2.0 | Slowmooner | Based & Hardworking Dev with good previous | Strong Community
Banks have been using digital currency for many years, yet they are against crypto!
I Depressed in this year. No girlfriends, no jobs, no friends, no lucks. The hell happened with this world? Shiba Inu Token Floki Santa Cheems Dog. How they managed to popular wtf lol. 100x moonshots this fellas🔥
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Speaking of MSTR, wasn't a majority of the ETF outflows OP mentioned just people selling their MSTR and buying other funds with lower MER?
Not my intention to buy an ETF, I go raw Bitcoin (balls deep) no matter what. Just trying to show with numbers and why wouldnt ETF buyers sell their shares ? What other legacy investment instrument gave these much returns in the same period ? * iShares Bitcoin Trust ETF launch date: 05 January 2024. * Bitcoin closing price 05 January 2024: $44,160.76 * Bitcoin closing price 05 January 2025: $89,000 **P/L: +$44,839.24 (+101.53%); no MER discounted, which I believe is 0,25% at cash-in and cash-out (?) \[help me out here\] that scenario would be P/L: +$44,618.42 (+101,03%).** Do not forget ETF buyers are in for price exposure, not for the actual movement, which directly means they got in only for profit. Thats why I did the math above. Hardcore Holders (speaking for myself) believe Bitcoin will actualy work as a financial freedom instrument, price is . This, logically, brings way more responsability than buying ETF, but way freedom in social and or political dystopic environments. Personaly, I believe there will be a Nixon 2.0 event with Bitcoin, meaning every corporate who holds Bitcoin in their balance sheet may be at risk of expropriation. They don't want to ban Bitcoin. They want to ban Bitcoin **for you**.
Imagine going off to buy your own ETFs and not knowing what MER means yet... Yikes
sell it all. Pay the tax on capital gains. withdraw your money (equally terrifying and yet you won't think twice about it) buy the bitcoin etf and pay a MER on bitcoin in perpetuity. or send a small transaction to your wallet, and then a day or two later send the rest (generate a new address with your hardware wallet, but send the rest. Do two test transaction if you want to) keeping bitcoin on the exchange is a lot scarier. They aren't going to admit a liquidity crisis to anyone, and they are going to prioritize the big spenders over the little fished like us. Make sure your coins are your coins asap. I didn't want to donate $50x3 to the exchange so I just bit the bullet and did all of it as once after my lump sum investment. Now I use bitcoin well so that my coins are never on the exchange.
How about BTC - Grayscale mini trust .15MER instead of EZBC - Franklin .19MER
yes, that fits with what I've been reading as well. However, the MER is less and with a similar performance (not that we can compare that long) I'm thinking vbtc is the play. DM me a pic of your portfolio and ill hit u back with mine once trade goes thru
I would say you don't know what you're doing. Grayscale's new fund is the lowest MER of them all.
Sorry, but you're in a degenerate gambling sub. You should go talk to the guys on Wall Street. They'll show you nice charts and charge 3.5% MER to gamble your money.
I know several people who put the ETF in their TFSA for that reason, but also because it lets them sell. Mean while they also keep stacking sats, but never sell those ones. Also FBTC lowered their MER for their ETF, it doesn't always show on the exchanges, but if you google it, you will find it.
I think most are correlated with the spot price of bitcoin. Pick one with a low MER I have IBIT at 0.12% (will be going to 0.25%) ARKB is 0.21% FBTC is zero MER but it's only temporary going to 0.25% soon There are others that are zero but they wil alsol be going up. Under 0.5% is pretty low fees for a ETF I picked IBIT as I have other Ishares etfs. Good luck Make sure it's a spot price BTC ETF and not a futures one.
No those fees are not taxable. If you're not getting the money, it isn't income for you. If the mutual funds in your RRSP have an annual MER, do you pay any tax? No. Only when you withdraw (sell) the fund units into dollars that you get.
Most people don't even know they're paying 2%+ MER on their "managed" investments. Financial literacy is abysmal.
i know their shitty ETF MER is so high everyone is dumping their ETF , so they have to sell the BTC . those selling swap to another ETF with lower MER or waiting on sidelines for dip ... either way it doesnt help BTC ...
Canada has a staking ETH ETF where dividends are reinvested. [https://3iq.io/staking](https://3iq.io/staking) MER fees are higher as expected, it will be interesting to see how it performs versus non-staked ETF over a longer period of time.
They also return the proceeds of share lending from the ETF back into the ETF and this is often enough to negate the cost of the MER as far as the effect on NAV goes.
GBTC MER is 1.5% its the highest ETF in the market , but they were the long runner in non spot ETF market for long time , since Jan there are many new spot ETF players with as low as 0% MER. U have to be stupid to stay with GBTC . they will continue to sell specially when BTC high , everyone will dump ther GBTC and run to other ETFS , unfortunately this will be for a while until GBTC becomes absolute or changes its MER to compete with new players ...
> Please keep yours cautious comments to yourself this is an ape post ! Thanks! Famous last words… I’m not American… Well, you’d have to sell whatever you’re holding in your 401K and wait for those to clear. You may be able to buy directly into a BTC ETF in the 401K, but if you want a Roth IRA you could [probably just create the account](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/rothira.asp) and transfer money into it. I don’t think any Roth IRAs allow you to hold actual coins. So, your likely only option are ETFs. Choose an ETF that has a low expense ratio/MER and buy into it. You are going to make a huge amount of work for your accountant. Best to talk to them first to get an idea about the best way forward and how to do this - you may be changing your tax bracket and doing all sorts of other things you don’t want to. Godspeed. I hope you come out on top.
Which ETF's do you own? Is there any that has a lower MER than BTCX.B & ETHX.B?
Eh.. VOO with a MER of 0.03% isn't paying much of my money to Vanguard staff!
It's a Bitcoin fund, not an ETF. Their fees/MER are way higher than the ETF. So many who hold GBTC now sell it to go to ETF instead.
It will take just under 3 years for you to break even based on the difference in MER. After 2.79 years, both ETFs will be backed by 3.595 BTC, assuming the MERs don't change.
BTCX has a lower MER just so you know
All "they" care about is their "x" % MER.
MER differences and/or fine text, mostly.
Per their prospectus filings (and the government regulation) they have to be backed 1:1. Owners of ETF shares cannot redeem for in kind BTC, they can only get cash. It'd be mighty fucking stupid to blow up an easy golden goose (MER of 0.3% on billions is still $6,000,000 a year in income) to try to cheat. Cause they will get caught out and lose their license/get fined if they do. And then there's reputational damage of "THAT ETF cheats and doesn't hold BTC while THAT one does."
Ohhhh the money these large asset managers are going to drop is going to be insane. Think about it. Managing BTC ETFs is the easiest thing. While they collect MER. Advertisement will be the difference between choosing black rock or Fidelity!!
I will continue to buy until I retire and cease to have regular fiat cashflow. I don’t see the benefit in accumulating BTC exposure via an ETF and pays an MER when I am quite comfortable handling my Coldcards.
It challenges everything they believe about being a good boy and putting your money every 2 weeks into the bullshit house of cards structure they they have bought into. (Embarrassing annual returns, MER's and inflation...and ironically some of the biggest financial frauds every perpetrated by mankind.) You are challenging their beliefs...their religion of how money works. Don't expect anyone to listen to you...you won't get any thank you.
Their regular MER is 1.75% and they keep 25% of rewards. Great to see a staking ETF and hopefully more competition will bring down fess. https://3iq.io/ca/3iq-launches-staking-in-the-3iq-ether-staking-etf-and-the-ether-fund
MER is a little high but 0 fees on wealthsimple
I prefer CI financial over purpose. Slightly lower MER but nothing wrong with purpose. Great tools for your TFSA or other registered accounts. Although Canada has had these ETFs for a while you can’t compare the Canadian market to the US. Spot ETF approval in the US is going to be an entirely different animal.
It is a sell the news event. No one cares about crypto except ppl in this subreddit Black Rock just wants to make money off fees they don't care if price goes up or down they get their MER fees. Everyone is all about the AI and ESG stuff now. Next coin will probably be a decentralized AI that uses pays users to offer up their PC for computing and gets paid in AI tokens
No. “The powers that Be” can freeze your brokerage account with one phone call. You’re also paying some sort of MER.
https://www.purposeinvest.com/funds/purpose-ether-etf This is one companies offering. There are others iirc. An ETF can trap you into an investment. You can only buy or sell them when the market is open: that means no holidays and during bankers hours. You lose flexibility, plus have to pay a MER or something similar.
id stay away from closed funds with hi fees/MER's open ended spot ETF with low fees/mer is ideal. FBTC is one of those.
He sells low MER etf, which to me seems a net good for society, what does he do thats bad?
Theoretically but not in terms of share price, you don't get charged MER
>These companies are not buying crypto. They will be. We've had BTC and ETH ETFs in Canada for a couple years now. They buy and hold BTC and ETH in cold storage to back their ETFs. Buying $10 of the ETF gets you $10 in BTC minus the MER. It's mostly just so Canadians can take advantage of BTC price movements in our tax-free accounts.
Most of my btc holding is in my RRSP via exchange traded fund. So far, it has not been good to me. And the MER is truly ridiculous... I'm out as soon as BTC hits.. \*checks portfolio\* ..$75,000 CDN again :(( I pretty much bought the tippy top, using the worst possibly way to buy, and get to pay 2% annually for the privilege of continuing to own. TLDR: Just buy bitcoin. Avoid the stupid ETFS
90% of my btc is in cold storage. The only reason I bought some in ETF form is that in Canada, there are accounts that allow you to avoid capital gains tax (called a TFSA) that I wanted to take advantage of for some of my btc. ​ I think it's reasonable for me to expect that the ETF issuer not dilute me by 10% given that they advertised a MER of 1.5%
Purpose Investments BTCC is a spot ETF tracks Bitcoin 1:1, outside of the 1% MER. There's hedged and unhedged versions. They also have ETHH, which works the same. There's also Galaxy and Evolve groups that have similar ETFs that track BTC/ETH 1:1. MERs vary between them.
Yeah. The MER can get you. BTCC.B is 1%, but Btcx is a bit less. Thanks for looking. 🙏
Management fee isn’t the complete picture, but that’s what they advertise on their website. MER is the TOTAL fee which is 1.45% as seen on their ETF fact page as of Nov 22, 2022.
The rebranding is an effort to redistribute MER tokens for more decentralization and to distance itself from FTX. Solana is still a fast, low fee ecosystem and can survive without FTX funding.
There's a ton of variables to consider that saying there's 20% in fees over 30 years doesn't catch. The fees range from 0.4% to 1%. It depends on the specific ETF. The capital gains tax only taxes **half of any gains,** not the full amount. So if you gain $100 the tax is only $7.50 and not $15, assuming a 15% tax. Which would also be $0 in tax if it's inside of a tax free account. That tax ranges depending on your income. But it's a variable tax rate so the first $50,000 is 15%, the next $25,000 is 20%, and so on. Is someone with the ETF actually going to hold it for 30 years or sell it during the next run inside of their tax free account? Is the ETF price going to remain static or low for a longer period and then rocket if BTC skyrockets over a month or two? You could sell at a sudden peak and the fees you paid were mostly when the price and resulting MER were much lower. There's a bunch of trade-offs to consider. Most people I know who have the crypto ETFs, also have regular crypto.
The whole benefit of these crypto ETFs is so we can hold them in registered accounts that we do not pay taxes on. The MER is pretty paltry compared to the minimum 15% tax (depending on your income level) in capital gains that crypto is subject to.
If the fund is tens of billions you can shave half a point as the MER. On ramps need to be trusted and actually stable.
It depends. These ETFs are largely used so you can hold BTC and ETH inside of a Tax Free Savings Account or a Registered Retirement Savings Plan or other registered account and reap the tax benefits of buying/selling the two cryptos. They have mostly followed the price of BTC and ETH (ie. When the first one launched it was $10 for the equivalent amount of BTC minus MER. It's followed the BTC price since.) so you'd still get the advantages when a bull run happens, but without the taxes that need to be paid. My biggest problem with these ETFs is that they all launched during the last bullrun and their break-even point is between CAD$65,000-72,000 for BTC. The price history of these ETFs looks horrible as a result. Anyway, I have other things holding in my registered accounts so the ETFs aren't super useful to me.
The MER fees are probably pretty high though. 🧐
> The fund will hold each position for no more than a week unless Cramer continues to have a contrary opinion. Only a week? The MER fees are probably high.
Regulations are not a bad thing. Regulations are needed for mass adoption: people putting cryptos into their retirement plans and grandparents passing cryptos down to grandchildren. I don’t think things will get nearly as bad as what you’re saying. Banks can easily offer different accounts that offer people opportunities to invest, either through a brokerage account that takes a MER or self directed investing that is pay per use or subscription based (have a high tear bank account for example).
I have some mutual funds and the MER is like 3%. Moving into a cheap ETF instead. Mutual funds are stupid.
>Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) in October 2004 relaxed the net capital requirements for five investment banks—Goldman Sachs (NYSE: GS), Merrill Lynch (NYSE: MER), Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, and Morgan Stanley (NYSE: MS). That freed them to leverage their initial investments by up to 30 times or even 40 times. >Subprime mortgages were repackaged into CTO's which were classed as low risk investments, even by Moody's Explain to me how these two factors weren't the reason the collapse happened.
> No need to buy/rent a warehouse and manage an ASIC or GPU farm. This is literally not any harder than the first thing you said. You just hire some fuckin guys to do it on salary. It takes a 1 hour meeting with yrou secretary and then you're done, lol. If you're a billionaire, the cost of all the staff handling all that for you is like 0.1% of your costs, lower than any ETF MER etc.
It enables plebs who just wouldn’t get into direct BTC operations, e.g. managing self-custody wallets, transfers, to adopt BTC in their asset allocation that would translate into demand on the underlying spot. They will pay a fee for the convenience in the form of MER.
If the fund is tens of billions you can shave half a point as the MER. On ramps need to be trusted and actually stable.
It's probably the best option since there's no margin, leverage or interest aside from the MER. There's money to be made on the downside and it's better than putting money in some insolvent exchange of with fake money in it. The only reason the ETF would shut down is if BTC mooned one day and caused the inverse ETF to become zero and cause the Toronto stock exchange to de list it but that'll never happen because you believe it'll hit zero so this ETF could go up forever. BTc has 9 decimal points so this could become infinity dollars if it keeps dropping 99% every day
History shows that doing the opposite as Cathie is always a smart thing. She can’t even beat the S&P and charges a ridiculously high MER
> This was, by this point, a conversation about PoS vs PoW, and nothing about PoS necessitates minimum staking requirements, that’s an ethereum thing, not a PoS thing Ok…but we’re in an Ethereum thread, the soon-to-be largest PoS blockchain. It’s pertinent to the convo. > You can stake small amounts in ethereum by joining staking pools anyway (but not even really interested in going into that, it itsrlf isn’t even PoS yet and again not fundamental to the concept) Not to mention it’s not the same as operating an independent validator. > Just like every other cost, “salaries for logistics guys to sort out those details” are irrelevant because they are simply covered by the revenues from previous mining.. So who cares? As a billionaire investor I’m not touching any of that. I’m not even writing the checks, the accountant for the mining business I hired is handling that. > A $100k tech salary is no different than a 0.01% MER on an ETF to the investor putting a billion dollars in. You just hand waved the whole issue away by posting nonsense. There are physical and bureaucratic barriers that nullify “as long as I have money I can purchase controlling stake in PoW via hardware just like PoS.” > In fact, since it helps nothing, but does waste time and energy and resources, NOT having to waste all that human effort in PoS is one of its advantages, just like reducing pollution is, same thing. It’s just wasted labor instead of wasteful CO2 etc
> Uh, what? To be an independent validator in ETH you must have 32 ETH. You don’t see how in your example, your influence is greater by having more? * This was, by this point, a conversation about PoS vs PoW, and nothing about PoS necessitates minimum staking requirements, that's an ethereum thing, not a PoS thing * You can stake small amounts in ethereum by joining staking pools anyway (but not even really interested in going into that, it itsrlf isn't even PoS yet and again not fundamental to the concept) * That said, of course you get more influence on vslidation by having more. *Just like you do in PoW by having more ASICs* > It's more difficult to persuade physical ASIC foundries to sell to you, acquire the raw materials and chip details, find a source of energy able to power a controlling amount of ASICs, etc etc versus just buying up a controlling interest in a PoS crypto. Who cares? You can just hire someone to handle all that for you for like 0.01% as much as your investment if you're a billionaire. Literally 0.01%. A $100k tech salary is that percent of a billion dollar investment. Way less than any ETF MER, etc. Completely inconsequential to your decusionmaking or broad scale security considerations.
If there was a way for him to hold the crypto and get paid MER fees he’d say the opposite.
Was wayyyy too much trouble dealing with fees from standard exchanges. ETHX charges only a 0.4% MER and has enough trading volume to keep up with crypto's price fluctuations. Also buying on a standard stock market lets me appreciate things tax free.
BTCC and ETHH are currency backed (although you can’t actually cash out for your coins) but doesn’t charge a premium and just a low MER
It’s impossible to give advice with such little information, what are your time horizons? What’s is your risk profile? There are also a huge number of options for investing outside crypto including managed funds, ETF’s, Bonds, Real estate, ect. And what’s appropriate will also potential depend on your age and location. The boring answer is an ETF like VTI, as it has a low MER however your minimum time horizon for any withdraws should be 7 years+ and employ a consistent deposit schedule. 10k per year over 30 years at 7.5% return will yield over a 1 million in compounding returns with very low risk. There are also higher risk options.
Um, no you won’t. A 1% MER. You need to hold for 35-40 years to be the same as taxes on capital gains.
And in Canada you can hold the spot etf in your tax free accounts. I’d gladly take the 1% MER fee to hold BTC and not have to worry about taxes with realized gains.
For reference, there is already spot ETFs in Canada. The one with the lowest fees has an MER of 0.4% annually, while many CEX exchanges have a spread or fees around there or even higher than that for each buy and sell. Not saying it’s necessarily cheaper to acquire through ETFs but on average the costs end up being more similar than some people may think. Someone is always taking a profit whether it be through an exchange or an ETF. Personally very bullish on the ETF as I’ve watched it convert many non crypto folks here in Canada. It seems like every investor I know is now throwing a couple percent of their portfolio in these ETFs. People that couldn’t be bothered to set up an account on an exchange or set up a wallet before this.
Back in ‘17 I was holding DAR tokens and as a reward the dev air dropped token holders his new MER token. Those free tokens made me $11k.
People are confusing a futures ETF and a spot ETF. They are very different beasts. A spot ETF the investment company buys physical BTC and stores it securely in a cold wallet. When you buy a spot ETF you get a piece or whole of the actual BTC you’ve bought. The nice thing about this is that you are using their insurance and their security to hold the BTC. The price is 1:1 with BTC. For all intents and purposes it’s akin to holding physical BTC but offsite. It also reduces the challenges for people who want to hold BTC but can’t figure or don’t want to use the technology so it opens up the average investor to participate. You can also buy spot etf in your tax free savings account like an RRSP and TFSA (Canada) While the Purpose BTC ETF has a MER of 1%, this cost is greatly offset if you store your ETFs in a tax free environment. That could save up to 30% in taxes if you realize your gains.
You can keep it in a tax advantaged account. Insured for loss. MER is something like 0.6%, which is high. But isn’t that far off of what a smaller investor would pay for hardware wallet, tx fees, etc. investing less than $1,000 and ETF makes a lot of sense. (Not for decentralization, just a $ argument). Even if you buy BTC on exchange… you’re paying a middle man.
It's crazy people even don't know how much exactly holding ETF cost them , there is no number somewhere we can read a. D decide , this should be illegal.. Banks try to hide that. They do their best to hide MER fee too.
Honestly...I think everyone here just has their head up their ass with the "not your keys line..." that is absolutely true for online exchanges, I barely got out of Mt Gox and Quadriga so I have a bit more experience in exchanges failing than most here. But this is a TSX listed ETF, Purpose has billions in assets and manages a lot of people's money in their RRSP's, this fund is approved by the Canadian govt. It is also eligible under your TFSA...so all capital gains are **tax free**. They are the Canadian equivalent of Grayscale...but not a trust, this is a custodial ETF....American WISH they had it this good. They settle every single day and you can see their daily buy's and sell's in a csv you can download at any time. For all newbies that now ask me how to invest in Bitcoin....this is where I'm sending them...no paperwallets, no risk, no taxation...it's a no-brainer. For a 1.5% MER they don't have to worry about losing a cent to thieves or their own incompetence, and liquidity is as fast as you want to buy or sell...money back in your bank account in minutes when you want it.
Sadly gas fees are only partly due to adoption. A significant part is also MER and shady market tactics be the big boys how are bidding to make some profit of you.
If physical BTC in non-custodial wallet is allowed in said account, it would be preferred for me since I prefer not to pay the 2% MER and I am comfortable managing my own non-custodial hardware wallet securely.
Depends on where you live. If in USA, I believe it's a Roth IRA or something like that. In Canada, a TFSA. Not everywhere has this as an option, and not everyone uses these accounts. So yeah; I realize that. But doesn't change that the BTC ETF has lots of other caveats, plus you probably have an MER to pay too, but I am too lazy to check that.
Mercurial finance (MER), Alchemy Pay (ACH) or RAY/SRM all the Solana coins will pop.
Buy Canadian listed ETFs? BTCX has a MER of 0.4% annually.
This has an MER fee of 0.75% which is almost twice as high as the fee of existing ETFs ETHX and BTCX by galaxy which have a 0.40% fee.
ORCA, and MER this week. OSMO forever though.
i hold btcx.b and ethx.b in a tsfa yes there's a small MER, but when I sell, I will pay $0 capital gains
I was actually looking at a couple blockchain related ETFs, it looks like we only have HBLK and HBGD in Canada and both have an MER fee of above 0.50% (all-market ETFs on the other hand are at like 0.20%). Also HBLK seems to inexplicably hold companies like Overstock. I think I'll end up buying HUT, GLXY, BITF, HIVE, etc but I always prefer to just keep it to an ETF to keep the portfolio clean and easier to manage rather than a bunch of separate companies.
I’d think more like chosing ecosystems to follow when we’re talking a five year period. SOL/Solfarm/MER/Fantom/Scream/
Go to Parrot.fi and mint PAI from the USDC+earn vault. Next, Go to Mercurial Finance and place it into the UST 3Pool; you need to swap PAI to USDT first. Then go back to Parrot.fi and mint PAI with your Mercurial UST 3Pool tokens. Now go back to Mercurial and deposit USDT in the PAI 3pool (again, swap PAI for USDT first). Deposit all MER rewards into port.finance and Luna rewards into Saber. When you need the 500 dollars back don't forget to pay of the PAI on Parrot first.
Mercurial (MER) if all I had was $50 and wanted to make a bit of a punt Mercurial is where I would throw it MER is a stable swap platform built on Solana 1 billion coin supply - 31.6 million market
Canadian ETF holder here, If they jump into the crypto ETF market with average/high MER’s that doesn’t make them better than the rest then I don’t see why anybody would want to buy theirs.
Don't give me that anarcho-libertarian bullshit. It's you who doesn't get that this is a HUGE social barrier. I personally own crypto and am perfectly capable of handling it. However, do you think that society is going to willingly choose to do more financial thinking than is strictly necessary? This is the same society who would rather pay 2% MER on a mutual fund instead of just throwing it into an index. This point has nothing to do with what things "should be", it has to do with the practical reality of why people would choose something else.
With 2.5% MER and it's got 63.4% of its constituents in Bitcoin, I think you'd be better served with a 100% bitcoin focused fund with a lower Expense Ratio. I'm no expert though.
With 2.5% MER and it's got 63.4% of its constituents in Bitcoin, I think you'd be better served with a 100% bitcoin focused fund with a lower Expense Ratio. I'm no expert though.
It's infuriating how for so many people, crypto won't be palatable until it's stripped of its fundamentals, centralized into an ETF, and then regurgitated with an MER tagged on.
This is fair! I decided to explore the ETF route only due to ease of dollar cost averaging and to take advantage of the tax shelter. That said, holding own keys definitely is its own form of security regardless of ETF insurance. A con of doing the ETF route as you mention is yes, there's a management fee. I believe the two ETFs I mentioned are around 1% MER.
BTCX.B and ETHX.B, both on TSX. They are the lowest in term of MER and follow quite well the market pricing of each.
Unless you’re going all-in on this high MER, low return Mutual Fund that I’m peddling to all of my clients.
Canadian here, we already have a handful of crypto etfs that can be held completely tax free in retirement accounts. MER isn't even that awful (1% ish depending on the etf). I have both BTC and ETH as part of my retirement portfolio