ESG

fuscosco

ESG alone is a pretty crappy measure of if a stock is worth buying and holding My evidence is the fact that ESG etfs dont really oyutperform other etfs and the high ESG stocks themselves tend to be correlated more than low ESG ones.

rahtin

Don't mess with the ESG mafia.

merlinsbeers

TCO for a Tesla is like 50% higher per mile than for a Camry. And Tesla can't stay green enough to make the ESG list, which [Stellantis](https://www.investors.com/news/esg-companies-list-best-esg-stocks-environmental-social-governance-values/) is still on. You can stop with the fallacies, lying, and projection any time.

batgamerman

Sue the government over ESG

Zanerax

(Reposting because auto-mod are my first post) China COVID lockdown primarily. Also recession concerns. Mining stocks fluctuate heavily with ore or metal market pricing. Costs of production (per ton/pound/etc.) are relatively fixed for a given mine at a given point in it's lifespan, but ore sales are mostly a spot market, rather than a fixed price on a LTA. So miners behave similar to oil companies - price goes up and they print money, price goes down and the highest cost producers get squeezed out. Except it takes even longer than oil drilling to bring a new mine online As an example, we'll use the price of [iron ore](https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/iron-ore). The long term trend has been a gradual rise after bottoming out during the recovery from the 2008 recession due to over investment/mine construction outpacing demand. **[Long term prospectus]:** Miners have some of the same headwinds that oil producers have - both got burned hard by the supply gluts ~2014-18 and are more hesitant about long-term over-investing in capacity, *and* it has become much more difficult to finance projects. Equity investors are demanding dividends or buybacks instead of chasing capacity, and banks are refusing to fund projects with debt unless they are lower risk without as much leverage. And the environmental movement has made it hard to build new mines and ESG has choked out many banks from funding mineral extraction at all. Except oil/nat. gas demand long term will be supplanted in part by renewables - raw materials will not. Given the current market conditions demand will outpace supply and prices are likely to drive up above the long-run average. This is widely accepted projection, especially for certain metals (nickel, copper, nickel, cobalt, nickel). But it certainly doesn't look priced in. Which means a lot of printing money in that industry. **[Regarding stock pullback last ~1 month]:** China is one of the biggest consumers of iron ore (as well as many other metals). The COVID lockdown in parts of China caused a lot of ore and metal prices to nosedive due to both realized and expected loss of demand. Assuming China gets out of their COVID lockdown without the economy tanking or the bottom falling out of their housing market ("it's a bubble") then raw materials prices will rebound. Shit ain't serious (so long as China's economy survives). There are certainly macro risks with mining exposure, but that's true of everything. My personal risk-profile is unfortunately doubled up because GOGL is a [dry-bulk freighter](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulk_carrier) primarily, and bulk shipping demand for most purposes is pegged to sales volumes of raw materials. Still ticked at myself for trying to time the bottom the iron ore dip when entering VALE. Could have bought at $12 but I got greedy (I noted this in my tracking file as a buy 16-Nov-22 @$12.11 but decided to sit and see if it would drop further).

CHAINSAW_VASECTOMY

Carbon Credits, weather futures, and ESG!

GeezWhizGuys

No, he criticized the Davos/WEF/nut-case ESG crowd.

OhioBaseball

I hear you loud and clear, but where is the new oil production coming from to bring oil prices lower? We had a fracking and deepwater oil boom in 2012-2014 when WTI was $100/barrel. The difference today is ESG has cut off a substantial amount of new investment. People really underestimate this impact. There's just not many new oil projects out there these days.

Ehralur

It was actually because of their poor environmental policies, which is obvious nonsense of course seeing as even oil companies score well on this point. ESG is a corrupt scam.

PopLegion

It comes top down from institutions too lol, just graduated buisness school with a degree in accounting, but took lots of buisness classes and finance classes. They would push ESG shit and say how markets and consumers are starting to really care about it lol. No one actually gives a fuck where their Nikes are made it's complete crap.

Didntlikedefaultname

Not the S&P just an S&P ESG fund. Tesla is still a part of the S&P 500

TimelyBrief

The ESG index.

dtanderson29

S&P Global re: ESG ratings, amirite?

wasnotherewas

Well it is an industry that is definitely not ESG and would not attract investors that care about that. But I think it is recession proof. Might still go down and touch 40.

RepulsiveDepartment8

1. Elon have warned you a lot of bad stuff will happened to him because he spoken out something demo doesn’t like 2. Tesla is just been push out of sp500 ESG index 3. Now sex harassment 4. Ark own less Tesla than roku ( not because they sold more Tesla buying roku it is because Tesla stock price lower) 5. They may have more coming 6. What you are doing is helping the shooters That is the way they are doing in2019 and many times before. At that time it is a great time to buy Disclosure. I am Tesla share holder. Not plan to sell For at least 10 yrs .

banditcleaner2

doesn't matter. he knows hes right on the ESG thing. hard AF not to be pissed about that when tesla is arguably the most significant company that exists right now when it comes to helping save the planet from climate problems.

fumbled_testtubebaby

Only the ESG fund, when they found out the BusinessInsider article of his attempted rape was coming out the following day.

HollowEarth1776

ESG, SPR releases, carbon taxes, geopolitical and economic instability, Biden straight up insulting the Crown Prince of Oil itself and demanding they give him cheap oil at the same time just keeps hindering production, OPEC's not even sticking to their planned production increases and keeps going on about "demand destruction" and "we'll have a surplus very soon". Oil baron market is coming.

mgd09292007

Nothing is confirmed at this point. It's someone making an allegation. I 100% don't condone any type of behavior like that, but let's see what evidence comes out. ...but if I was wearing my conspiracy theory hat for fun (which I dont normally do), the timing seems a little bizarre given that: 1) This administration has been very obviously against Tesla/Elon the way it shunned Tesla publicly and tried to promote Mary Barra and GM as the leader in the EV space....clearly not even remotely true and kind of embarrassing to watch our president refuse for weeks to even mention Tesla by name. 2) Anti-Tesla, Missy Cummings, was appointed to a key advisory role at the NHTS and is against tesla's autopilot technology. This is a big area of future growth for Tesla. 3) Elon decides wants to buy Twitter and open it up and said Trump should be allowed on the platform. He also said he switched form Democrat to Republican. 4) Elon's acquisition of Twitter relies on the value Tesla shares for his ability to raise enough capital ( I believe...correct me if I am wrong) 5) S&P ESG dropped Tesla citing one of the reasons as “lack of a low-carbon strategy” which is essentially what the entirety of Tesla is about. ​ This might sound crazy, but it seems like this administration has been very anti-Tesla and probably was freaking out about Twitter allowing Trump back on the platform and being controlled by Musk, so given the acquisition was linked to Musk's Tesla share value, if Tesla stock tanks, then Musk can't buy Twitter and it keeps remaining censored. Before my inbox blows up with unsolicited hatred. I will say I own a Tesla and I love their vehicles and I and a few shares that I am holding, but nothing substantial. I think Musk is a bit of a loose canon and is both an asset and a risk for Tesla even though he's a product visionary, I sometimes wish he would lay off twitter as often times it hurts more than it helps.

anonAcc1993

Ya, the ESG thing is a farce but he isn’t helping himself. Going after a president whilst you are engaging in some shady stock manipulation things is not very smart.

stockpreacher

It's the ESG thing. He's pissed.

DataScienceMgr

ESG is bullshit and is creating more damage than good despite good intentions from some - others have nefarious goals with it. Glad Tesla is out. We are in a bear market - inflation makes it almost impossible to make good investment decisions and the impending recession necessary to stymie it is now being factored in. Tesla is also hard to value - a big chunk of its market cap is in expectations of future growth and tech innovation. I’m still long and staying long but it’s only about 5% of my portfolio so I can stay put. Otherwise I am slowly going back into cash during those daily morning bear market upswings followed by a worse crash at the end of the day than yesterday… :(

fumbled_testtubebaby

When he said he was going to "Own the libs," none of us suspected Elon meant wrecking all their ESG portfolios that still held TSLA.

FlatAd768

i didnt even know ESG 500 existed until Tesla

Gillie867

ESG is pro-horse they knew

Hypersonic_chungus

No coincidence TSLA got removed from S&P ESG a day before the horse cock thing came out?

Cowhead32

Their ESG score is too high too

Sea_Impression3810

Only the S&P 500 ESG index. Nobody cares about that shit anyways

Hadron90

Elon Musk: WTF, why was I dropped off the ESG list Also Elon Musk: So there I was raping a flight attendant on my private jet carrying livestock...

ListerineInMyPeehole

Its not. Its out of the S&P ESG index which is like 1% the size of the S&P 500

Buythetopsellthebtm

No ESG ticket

long_short_alpha

All information needs to be published. Its about transparency. Tesla isnt even publishings its emissions. Yes, you heard it right, check it! And thats the problem: these EV companies think they are so super green, that they dont care about the rest. On the other side the most gray companies know exactly that they have to take an afford to look as sustainable as possible. Therefore they really do their homework. So instead of crying like a baby, Elon should just hire some people and start cooperating with the ESG rating agencies and deliver all data they need. Thats all that needs to be done.

mlamping

You’re an idiot There are other heads of funds that are saying Tesla shouldn’t have been removed from ESG… But I guess you redditors know better lmao The amount of hate some of you have without knowing any facts is hilarious. “Breaking the law” - sure buddy

fuscosco

Elon Tesla, the customer alienating, racist, ESG incompliant, sexual predator company with a penchant for expensive and ill timed M&A ventures?

ze_end_ist_neigh

ESG is a sophisticated scam- This should have been apparent to any doubters when the ESG ideologues started musing about including military defense contractors in ESG Indexes to encourage investment to bypass lack of funding to supply arms in Ukraine when the war broke-out. It's about reshaping investment opportunity to benefit of a select few. ESG came onto the scene in 2008 and we saw all those Green Energy blunder investments the federal government made that were rife with fraud and misappropriation. Sorry for the rant, but that shit really pisses me off lmao

OptionsTrader14

Reuters: >Some, like Musk, believe the ratings should reward companies that do the most for the planet and society. Others, including firms like S&P that produce the scores, say they are meant to show how much risk a company's stock faces from ESG factors. This explains why some companies that are major contributors to climate change, such as Exxon Corp (XOM.N), are allowed to stay in an ESG index if they can show they are taking actions to reduce that risk. "Ultimately ESG is a way of identifying and trying to quantify risk. So it's basically risk mitigation," said Chi Chan, portfolio manager at Federated Hermes. "Effectively Musk is conflating ESG with sustainability." Mark Tinker, chief investment officer at Toscafund Hong Kong, said Musk "rightly pointed out" that societal and corporate governance considerations are being used "for political driven cancelling" and that a company's contribution to the environment can also "mean what you want it to." "The whole thing is very subjective," Tinker said.

zeecat1964

Study what your stocks are doing in the real world. of you need to make a move, do the best you can to make lateral moves. On your company stock, see what the company is up to and if it's doing anything to keep up with the security environment, by all means stay with it. This field is going nowhere but up. Old company or new. In fact, I'm more likely to stay with "tried and true" companies that are maintaining than newer companies that have more risk because of the way customers approach security. Study your etfs and make sure you know what they are invested in for the long haul. I recently discovered one of mine had a good bit in Russia and had positions in companies with deplorable environmental histories. Not to state a political position, but investments like that are going to be hard to come back from in any rebound. They have said they plan to liquidate those gradually. I don't fully trust their judgment on what they are going to do with those liquidation funds, so I moved half into an etf that had a history of more stability, no Russia, less China (only solid multi-nationals) and better ESG ratings. I researched it to death and I'm breaking even on that transfer, with a slower decline rate. Just saying that making changes in this market is not necessarily panic selling. Even though everything is in decline, not everything is equal. Sometimes moving money around may be what you need to do to prepare the rebound.

filtervw

China slowdown is not as bad as you would expect, that factory is exporting in all Asia, Asutralia plus Europe. In the EU the real delivery times are more than 6 months. I am more concerned about Elon messing up with the higher circles who have enough money to fuck him up bad. First Tesla pulled out from ESG index, allegations of sexual misconduct, and who knows what comes out of the Twitter fiasco, you can bet the SEC will surely find something to take on him.

BlackScholesDeezNuts

S&P ESG hit it dead on. The index isn’t about who’s saving the planet, it’s what companies are sustainable. There’s a lot of systemic risk to Tesla stock. I’d argue Elon has singlehandedly invented more risk to the stock out of thin air in the last month than the crash investigations, racial discrimination lawsuits, and worker exploitation suit put together.

veganwolfie

The people assessing the social ESG scores seems to be going down the same rabbit hole, which the fin credit rating agencies did, back in 2008. Doesn't necessarily mean that ESG in itself is a scam. In fact it is the need of the hour, now more than ever There is an urgent need for regulation and segregation of ESG metrics from politics. That doesn't seem to happen under the far left leaning ideologies.

AutismCapital

ESG is a giant fuckin scam, and who gives a flying fuck if a Tesla kills 3 people a week in perpetuity.. that would still make Tesla’s the safest form of travel by miles. The fact that only a single-digit-number of people die in a Tesla each year on account of their own stupidity is legit icing on the cake proving just how superior TSLA is to any company in the world, not just the horseshit auto makers in the US. Bitch all you want about musk. Anyone that says a single negative thing about the guy or his companies should just hold a sign saying “I’m a pussy with no talent so I’m going to talk shit on all the people changing the world”

knyc3791

ESG's index methodology is a joke. Just another way to squeeze higher fees for underperformance. For more hot takes, you can find me on Instagram ([\#ValueTrapp](https://www.instagram.com/valuetrapp/?hl=en)) or Twitter ([@TrappValue](https://twitter.com/TrappValue)). As always, admins remove this comment if it violates any rules. Appreciate y'all.

HollowEarth1776

I think Fink would personally lower the ESG rating of any fund manager who reduced the BLK allocation to "Super Hilter FFF-", its a list of the top holdings, not all of them will be chopped.

mysuruhuduga

ESG = bunch of jokers Tsla 1200 eoy

TheThetaAndTheVega

ESG, the woke social credit score for companies? Tesla getting kicked out sounds bullish to me

tommy_pickles45

Tesla wasn’t even invited to the EV event at the White House. Like WTF. ESG is a joke.

fortune_cookie011

wait what is ESG ... dumb question i know..

FOMOhomo

ESG is fake and 🌈

Penfoldsgun

Lol here i'll fix my comment for you - "ESG metric system's." Doesn't change the fact that it's influenced by corporate interests. Majority of research houses are paid by corporations to give their investment product/business etc a rating. Similar way the FDA is 45% directly funded via the pharmaceutical industry. Do you understand the conflicts of interest? https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/why-is-the-fda-funded-in-part-by-the-companies-it-regulates-160444

Tx_Eng2008

I’m on my company’s ESG committee, it’s a scam. I know was ESG is and so do you.

tle712

"ESG metric system" lol... there is no single ESG metric system. They are just ratings given by private agencies, like credit ratings. There are multiple agencies that give different ESG scores, with published methodologies, to their best effort. Do your own research and stop parroting sensationalized tweets by your cult leader.

tle712

parrot. What do you think ESG is for ?

BanditoBoom

The fundamental CONCEPT of ESG investing is sound, but the IMPLEMENTATION of it is flawed. Let’s set aside the activist investors who only want to invest in “good” companies, and talk about what looking at ESG does. When you are putting millions or billions of dollars to work investing in a company, part of that decision is analyzing the risk factors. Environmental, Social, and Governance policies in a company are absolutely something that should be accounted for. If a company isn’t following good ESG practices, it leaves them open to litigation and is a liability. Investing in companies with good ESG scores is supposed to limit those liabilities. The problem is when humans try to weight the inputs. We all have biases, and it is stupid to try. Also: politics.

WilleZumLeben

Yesterday daddy Musk took a big shit on ESG, today he's offering horses to flight attendants. Who could have seen such a hit piece coming. It would take a big nose to sniff that one out.

tle712

ESG is not standardized since it's a recent thing so no one is surprised if they are far from perfect, but they have their methodology published if you bother to read. But of course you won't because the "own the libs" crowd has their only 2 brain cells occupied with your conspiracy theories already.

iyervikas81

futes pumping bigly in anticipation of the 🩸🩸🩸 that TSLA gonna cause tomorrow. TSLA needs to be kicked out of SPY,not only ESG so that SPY can rally to ATH again.

TX210Bmann

Elon himself said “Tesla stock is over priced” which we all would agree. Even after the stock split, the stock is still over valued. The P/E ratio is ridiculous and the only reason it’s up so high is because of the short % for xxx amount of years. But Tesla itself is still a great stock overall. But I feel it should be a realistic $400 stock. ESG has a questionable top ten in its index. And honestly, musk plays the market like a fiddle.

Parking-Ground5480

Given the amount of influence Musk has, plus innovations, plus the SEC has already tried to control him, plus due to ESG standards he was dropped from the SPY (Makes a whole lot of since), plus the negative attention he is receiving, Musk must be doing soothing right, right?

TheToxicStonkAvenger

You have to admit the series of events is pretty sus, Elon pissed off Bill Gates. Stock drops 30%. Tesla kicked out of ESG index. Then the news drops. I couldn't care less about Elon, but the SEC should probably look into if anyone was shorting prior the stories release lol. Obviously the SEC won't do anything though.

rusbus720

To all the morons flipping out yesterday about tesla losing its ESG status. It clearly can get so much worse.

crazyyimmy

Pretty sure every company in the ESG index fakes the three criteria to actually be there

fumbled_testtubebaby

The S/P ESG panel had a heads up on this story coming out.

Trex_in_F16

Teslas whole argument is about the ESG part

Trex_in_F16

Tesla getting kicked of S & P ESG index...now this horse scandal on the same day...damn Elon boi aint sleeping tonight

crazyyimmy

Imagine thinking the ESG means anything to anyone, much less Tesla

fumbled_testtubebaby

For those of you claiming the stewardess was a one-off by Musk, keep in mind there are 5 other Space-X female employees who have claimed and received settlements from Musk's conduct, and 6 at Tesla for the same. There's a "G" for governance in ESG, and that's why a company run by Musk isn't part of an ESG fund today. Make jokes about women all you like, but if you were long TSLA, this shit is costing you money.

pigsgetfathogsdie

Small green companies can definitely sell Carbon Credits. That’s not an issue. The biggest auto company (market cap) selling Carbon Credits is absolutely ridiculous…and legal balance sheet fraud. ESG seeks to invest in green companies…but, the ESG metrics are very opaque. The S&P ESG Index rankings are very controversial.

Optimal_Point_5482

ESG is the party's way to ensure the large corporates do their bidding, or their stocks will tank. That's how you get Disney to introduce Princesses with Penisses.

doobiedoobie123456

This is a complicated issue that it seems like you're trying to reduce to a sound bite. How do you know carbon credits haven't gone to small companies? I'm sure they have gone to many companies smaller than Tesla, as well as other auto makers selling electric caras. Also, carbon credits and ESG investing are two pretty different things.

CutFabulous1178

Yes ESG is a scam, allowing companies to deviate from its intended purpose. Also the media loves to overhype Tesla. Less media, happier person.

Duke0119

ESG=Corporate virtue signaling.

markmcgoldrick

Carbon credits are the doge coin of the future. Some blockhead will block chain carbon credits using coal fired clusters with Musk rocket fuel. ESG is a scam I agree. Evil Society Generale Copyright, patent pending :)

unmelted_ice

This was my thought too. I know everyone loves SPY.. but when I think ESG an S&P index doesn’t even come to mind That being said, I’m a moron

AllOfThisHasHappnd

It's a total waste of time and effort. Any index that says an oil company is good for the environment is utterly pointless. That's not even a criticism of oil - we need it to do stuff, but dressing it up as environmentally friendly because they employ a diverse (i.e. outsourced to low income countries) workforce is absurd. Every minute spent filling in ESG forms would be better served picking up litter.

Wonderboi1995

I did some really shitty analysis on oil back [here](https://purplefloyd.substack.com/p/hey-virgins-oil?s=w) and I now worry there may be a structural deficit from all the ESG shit policy the US was pushing. Also, China is re-opening now

SnooCookies783

If you’re looking for ESG ratings, you need to look at the top 3 in the space, MSCI, Sustainalytics, and ISS, not the S&P.

mlamping

No, you guys are idiots. He tried to be the smart one. All of you idiots posting here like your enlightened. The article has links in it especially one link to the head of the ESG’s blog post. None of you read it, or probably even read the article. You guys are just disgusting people. “Conspiracy theory” “Musk cultists” You guys shown who you actually are by the questions you asked. And it shows how pathetic you guys are. Get out if here

Far-Requirement9180

Holy fuk Elon keeps trolling S&P ESG Index 

Punchgolfr

When your employer tries to monitor wellness and safety, it is actually collecting data to demonstrate how well it's performing on ESG metrics. The "S" of ESG = Social, and this is where HUMAN CAPITAL figures in. Are you a good global citizen? Do you use the appropriate pronouns? Is your circle of friends inclusive enough? Did you eat too much beef this month? Do you follow the Noahide Law? Your EMPLOYER will have an interest in retaining only those employees who can answer these types of questions in the way that BlackRock says they ought to be answered. If you can't do that, you are a HUMAN LIABILITY. That is - UNTIL a "social entreprenuer" comes along with a re-education app that will nudge you into better attitudes and behaviors. Backed by an impact investor and a Pay for Success contract with the government, the social entreprenuer will turn HUMAN LIABILITIES into IMPACT OPPORTUNITIES. Once they have everyone following the Global Goals, they'll pick a new set of benchmarks, say, Megaregional Goals. And then they'll declare the newly-improved HUMAN CAPITAL to be HUMAN LIABILITIES, and then IMPACT OPPORTUNITIES. Over and over and over again. One way to have a sustainable economy is to attach profits to the never-ending process of re-educating the workforce. ◾◾◾◾ Larry Fink and WEF Great Reset In 2019 Larry Fink joined the Board of the Davos World Economic Forum, the Swiss-based organization that for some 40 years has advanced economic globalization. Fink, who is close to the WEF’s technocrat head, Klaus Schwab, of Great Reset notoriety, now stands positioned to use the huge weight of BlackRock to create what is potentially, if it doesn’t collapse before, the world’s largest Ponzi scam, ESG corporate investing. Fink with $9 trillion to leverage is pushing the greatest shift of capital in history into a scam known as ESG Investing. The UN “sustainable economy” agenda is being realized quietly by the very same global banks which have created the financial crises in 2008. This time they are preparing the Klaus Schwab WEF Great Reset by steering hundreds of billions and soon trillions in investment to their hand-picked “woke” companies, and away from the “not woke” such as oil and gas companies or coal. BlackRock since 2018 has been in the forefront to create a new investment infrastructure that picks “winners” or “losers” for investment according to how serious that company is about ESG—Environment, Social values and Governance. For example a company gets positive ratings for the seriousness of its hiring gender diverse management and employees, or takes measures to eliminate their carbon “footprint” by making their energy sources green or sustainable to use the UN term. How corporations contribute to a global sustainable governance is the most vague of the ESG, and could include anything from corporate donations to Black Lives Matter to supporting UN agencies such as WHO. Oil companies like ExxonMobil or coal companies no matter how clear are doomed as Fink and friends now promote their financial Great Reset or Green New Deal. This is why he cut a deal with the Biden presidency in 2019. Follow the money. And we can expect that the New York Times will cheer BlackRock on as it destroys the world financial structures. Since 2017 BlackRock has been the paper’s largest shareholder. Carlos Slim was second largest. Even Carl Icahn, a ruthless Wall Street asset stripper, once called BlackRock, “an extremely dangerous company… I used to say, you know, the mafia has a better code of ethics than you guys.”

totaIIybored

Salty about ESG.

cheeeezeburgers

I am baffled that people are just now realizing that ESG is a scam.

Silent-running62241

ESG is a gimmick. It’s being shoved down our throats while asset managers swear the market wants it. It’s a political tool that can be used to get companies to jump through hoops or punish them.

User125699

ESG always has been a scam

Beneficial-Youth4129

What a BS! Exxon is ESG, my ass it’s, corrupt system to keep reaping off people that actually are ESG and hurt environment by supporting dirty oil that use loopholes. It looks Musk was right in predicting attacks on him next few months!

esch14

Yes, ESG is meaningless.

134RN

ESG no. TSLA yes.