GBTC

VisionQuest0

As a GBTC holder back when it was a penny stock, using my Roth was a sweet play. What’s currently your highest conviction name?

One_Opportunity9167

Gambling. I had a smidge of IRA money that I could "play with" to relieve the tendency to try to outsmart the "screw with the portfolio as little as possible" process that got me to early retirement. So, I put 0.8% into GBTC as kind of a lottery ticket (2021). If it ever skyrockets, I won't miss out completely. But I have a couple percent of my money as FOMO relief that probably won't ever pan out.

TrollsteinOx

Yeah, exactly. The current 'shares per BTC' is 1,760.56 (or 0.0005680 BTC per IBIT share), which is shown in the box near the bottom of the page on the tool. The calculator also updates the BTC/IBIT parity automatically, taking into account tracking drift, fees, and any NAV deviations so the conversion stays pretty accurate without extra work. There’s also a dropdown in the header next to IBIT with the top 10 BTC ETFs preloaded. Once those data feeds are finalized, you’ll be able to quickly run conversions for IBIT, FBTC, GBTC, and the rest. Idea is to replace manual calculations or spreadsheets, quickly switching between strikes for Bitcoiners that think in terms of BTC price, not IBIT (or FBTC, etc).

nitroacid411

Puts on MSTR. Going long on GBTC and IBIT.

HaruoPanda

If your buddy's looking at a 20-25 year horizon, I'd suggest avoiding individual stock picks and leveraged ETFs for the bulk of the IRA. Those leveraged ETFs are designed for short-term trading, not long-term holds (decay can kill returns). For long-term success, consider a core allocation to a low-cost total market ETF like VTI or VOO (70-80%), with perhaps a tech sector tilt via QQQ or VGT (10-15%) if they want some growth exposure. If they're genuinely interested in crypto, a small allocation (1-3%) through something like GBTC might make sense, but emphasize this should be money they're comfortable potentially losing completely. Remember: diversification is what builds sustainable wealth over decades.

nitroacid411

Buy MSTR Buy GBTC Buy IBIT Sell VOO Sell SPY

BigAcorn1770

Yes. IRAs were All in Apple for a 4x over 7 yrs. Then Lost 40% trying to Trade for 2 yrs. Then All in on GBTC for a 10x over 6 yrs. Now all in 3 Stocks Every journey is different.

XstraCrispy

Already in with 50k, but can you keep it down so it doesn’t go up too much and I can load up on more lol Anyways, my question to you is about ETHZ: Biggest bull case for this is that its net assets value per share is around .6x meaning buying ETHZ right now is like getting a ~40% discount on buying straight up Etherium. No brainer right? Given ETHZ’s structure, debt, and dilution risk, isn’t it normal for it to trade below its ETH-backed NAV until management proves transparency and a real capital-return plan? Even well-known companies like Grayscale (GBTC before ETF conversion) and closed-end funds like Pershing Square or Sprott Physical trusts traded below NAV for years - do you think the upcoming earnings report will finally give investors confidence to close that gap?

TheBlacktom

"Crypto ETFs welcome institutional entry, 15 institutions hold nearly $14 billion, BlackRock attracts the most funds" "As of Q4 2024, Goldman Sachs holds nearly $2.34 billion in Bitcoin spot ETFs" "Over 600 Financial Institutions Reveal Billions Invested in US Spot Bitcoin ETFs" "Morgan Stanley, one of the leading financial institutions, has disclosed a substantial investment of $269.9 million in GBTC" "Other financial giants such as JPMorgan, Wells Fargo, UBS, BNP Paribas, and Royal Bank of Canada are also on the list of investors."

blalah

So you realize that corn isn't going to get you 100x like it used to have the potential to do...No buying GBTC... So you research and find out that Bittensor is the next best thing to become number 3 behind Ethereum as a decentralized AI and you try to buy stocks. Only option is some stupid OTC crap that doesn't see action and is probably a scam XD Classic

flipaflip

short an ETF that tracks BTC? like GBTC, or you can even go crazy leveraging shorts on a 2x leverage ETF, or you can just buy an inverse

thesuprememacaroni

So if you just bought SPY instead you would be up 166% or QQQ up 275%. If you are a real gambler you would be 282% in bitcoin (used GBTC as a marker so can be off) or 650% if TQQQ is your fancy.

KatBoss01

Try to scoop up some MSTR 8/22 420 Calls around $7 at the open tomorrow. I bought GBTC 8/15 92 calls for $3 today, so down a bit right now.

Interesting-Pin1433

I've pissed away a few thousand in my IRA via options because I'm regarded so I don't do that anymore. However, I made a lot of money in my IRA by buying video game stonk, and then lots of GBTC back when bitcorn last went under $20k in 2022 or 23 I have some FBTC now but am mostly VOO. Whenever we start seeing articles about "is bitcorn dead" again, I'll be selling lots of VOO and buying more FBTC Oh, and 401ks can get rolled over to an IRA, so that's probably like $150k of my IRA principal.

PutItOnTheRitz

I like this breakdown, especially the split between taxable and tax-sheltered. Have you found IBIT’s tracking and volume solid enough to stick with it? I’ve seen mixed feedback but the structure seems promising compared to GBTC.

D3ATHSQUAD

Yeah… I am trying to stop doing this to myself. I thought about shoving $900k into GBTC when it was $9 (it’s now over $80). I also almost YOLO’ed $1.2M into NVDA when it crashed to $90-$95 a couple months ago. You can’t sit there and study all the would have’s… otherwise we would all be dreaming of the $10,000 we spent on Bitcoin in 2012.

illhelpUbutbenice

One trade away from being flagged as a pattern day trader until the 28th. I'm up 2k from 400 initial investment because I didn't get greedy on the bs pump and dumps. Question is, where should I stuff my money for the next week. VOO? GBTC?

CarlosTheSpicey

I sold GBTC (Greyscale Bitcoin Trust) just prior to its conversion to a spot ETF when I was up 250% in less than a year. I've never had such a, for me, 'hit it outta da park!' gain. So, yeah, I told myself don't get greedy, and sold it. I'm not back in to IBIT (BlackRock's Bitcoin ETF) and am currenlty up 104%. Gonna hold it for now. Caveat: I only ever invested what I felt comfortable losing completely. It was only a thin sliver of my total portfolio.

moonRekt

GBTC then ETH then GDLC. Helps distract me from the stupid alts I held that bled out in sats

BigBlackHungGuy

GBTC made me a shit ton of money. I'm in.

left-for-dead-9980

PLTR, BTC, and GBTC are not mutual funds. PLTR is a stock. GBTC is a Bitcoin Trust BTC is Bitcoin.

Lost-Replacement-119

In Profit: NVDA, MSFT, NET, PLTR, GOOG, GBTC, META, CRM, RKLB In Loss: UNITY, ASAN

FIRE_Science

This list excludes positions in S&P 500 funds and similar. 1a. NVDA (~3.5% of invested assets) 1b. HOOD (same as above) 3. SOFI 4. ACGL 5. ARKB/GBTC

Expensive_Ad_8159

Shit man I’ve still got some 700%+ lots on GBTC

KatBoss01

This was on MSTR. I also like to play with AAPL, SPY, SQQQ, GBTC, SMCI, and RDDT - keeping a close eye on GOOG.

KatBoss01

GBTC is the greyscale Bitcoin ETF. MSTR is like a 3x levered ETF due to their value mostly being related to their ability to monetize their BTC holdings.

Apprehensive_Job_449

Appreciate your response, what platform would you use to hold the GBTC? I didn't know I could trade BTC using MicroSTR. Tia for any clarification

KatBoss01

Unfortunately that’s all in GBTC - boring!

KatBoss01

If you are looking for quick returns, and can handle high risk, MSTR is the best way to trade BTC. That being said, I grew my account 3x from 2023-2024 by just holding GBTC that I bought at 12.5. The advice? Take a long view and find a way to use the volatility as leverage to increase returns.

TomatoSpecialist6879

It still doesn't invalidate my post because your current "correction" is still very different from what your original post was talking about, I stand by the fact that you're full of shit but I will apologize for calling you AI. Also SEC was suing Grayscale over GBTC specifically, not because of the other crypto trust unit they created. The lawsuit happened in 2023 and your sold date is also in 2023, you title says 2024 and it's currently 2025, are you having a schizo episode or are you on drugs?

bonkerseastcoast

You agree with me then proceed to say 'full of shit'. I will admit the title has a mistake. It was HZEN, not GBTC. Bought at 0.5 and sold at 8. I mistook it with my GXLM trade, which I bought at 4 and sold at 32$. HZEN never reached 32$. That was my mistake and unable to edit title https://preview.redd.it/ukly1yo2pz6f1.png?width=2100&format=png&auto=webp&s=1ddb16adf854bfc1b09ad6b8ed38cb942b79007f

YieldMeAlone

GBTC

blalah

Wonder how big that GBTC BGD will be like tomorrow morning. 

Accurate-Falcon-1538

Sold the rest of mine today that I bought a few weeks ago at 11 ish. It's screwed me before, so happy with this choice. Same for GBTC.

FaintCommand

I like how your wife's is the riskier one. Lol Are you using a Crypto IRA, a Bitcoin fund like GBTC, or is there a platform where you can mix and match crypto and equities?

nyse25

GBTC doing most of the heavy lifting there

rriggsco

Since 2016, a port of: - 80% TFLO (short term treasuries) - 10% GBTC - 10% GLD Using rebalance bands. Beats holding 100% SPY and has a significantly lower drawdown.

rriggsco

Since 2016, a port of: - 80% TFLO (short term treasuries) - 10% GBTC - 10% GLD Using rebalance bands. Beats holding 100% SPY and has a significantly lower drawdown.

Space_Pilot1

You’re 23 in options??! Open a Roth IRA and throw it into GBTC or VTI or anything really. You could turn 30k into millions by 40 years. https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/monte-carlo-simulation

BottomTimer_TunaFish

If they don't have enough to buy the dip, they should focus on savings first and then expanding income second, if feasible. After those responsibilities are met, then they can invest extra. Retirement accounts are not taxed for capital gains taxes so long as the proceeds stay in the account. So another way to have money to buy the dip is by trimming from highly profitable positions you have. I bought GBTC at the bottom of the bear market. Sold near the top. Used the profits to buy the crash. I sold PLTR for 17x gain to wait to buy deep into a correction like last week. The beautiful thing about reinvesting your gains is compound growth. For example, once you make a 5x gain, and you put it into something that 4x, you will now have 20x growth because 1x5x4 = 20. Furthermore, roth retirement accounts are not taxed when withdrawing your contributions and their growth after retirement age. You dodge both capital gains and withdrawal taxes.

spammmmmmmmy

I've had 20% in gold (IAU) and 2% in bitcoin (GBTC) the whole way through the pandemic. The pair has served me well. 

Londonskaya1828

When I had a huge pct loss in 2008 I just froze. I didn't sell and I stopped buying. Then I read the 4 Pillars of Investing and built up a more diversified portfolio over time. I can't imagine DCA next week or whatever because you are throwing good money after bad. You are paying cash for an asset that likely has a declining value. Trump is Mr Unpredictable, but I just don't see any basis for a rally. So, you could sell half your shares, get into SGOV and see what happens. I can't comment on crypto as I don't understand it. Made a bit on GBTC a few times.

DJ_Crunchwrap

You're better off buying IBIT or one of the other bitcoin ETFs btw. GBTC has higher fees.

frankfox123

Averaging into Vti and Voo equally at the same time. Bought some GBTC again just for fun. Believer in ECOR (will be bought out one day, imo). Maybe buying some FOLD (undesided) because it randomly gets pumped and dumped every once in a while. Long term PTLO because it is never empty here. I am eyeing BA, UAL and DAL once I think the bottom is in (another 20%down maybe, will be based on feelings lol). Airlines will feel hard pain but will recover later, imo.

BottomTimer_TunaFish

I was able to sell GBTC when BTC was at $106k. I sold PLTR for an average of $112. Now they are at 82k and $78, respectively. I'm still in profit on most of my positions because I bought them so low with my strategy for timing bottoms, hence my username. I have been buying stocks and crypto that have been beat up over the past few weeks. The lower and closer to the bottom you can buy, the more generational profits and insane ROI you can make. Buying low and at bottoms is how I succeeded. I have been using both my disposable income and realized profits to buy. With that said, multiple sentiment metrics are at historical lows and all-time fear levels for a very extended period of time. Whenever these multiple sentiment metrics give these measurements for this long, they have always led to significant bottom in the market. Although they won't time the exact bottom, they'll get it right within a margin of several days, a few weeks, or 1-2 months. Take from these signals what you will. You can verify and compare their history against price action to know that this idea is not bogus.

OkDiver6272

Why would you sell and lock in a loss unless you are going to move into something with more upside potential? It will eventually go back up, and I bet quicker than most are expecting. Personally in that situation, assuming that’s your only (or main) investment, I’d move $50k I to each of TSLA and MSTR, DCA’ing into them over the next 3 months. That is what I did in 2020 when TSLA and GBTC got slashed in half in the Covid dip, then proceeded to 10x over the next year. It paid off handsomely. At that same time some of my older relatives were afraid of a looming recession, so they got out of the market and went into Bonds and CD’s. They did not come out so well on the other side compared to those who stayed in the market straight through the dip.

Advanced-Engineer-85

In terms of who’s buying STRK, it may be convertible bond arb funds and ETNs like MSTY. Seems like a way to get shares you can then write calls on but have security senior to common. Unless you think Bitcoin is going to zero, the preferred are well protected. Given the high volatility of the stock, you can get 50% annualized returns on the capital. I don’t understand why more people aren’t buying Bitcoin and shorting MSTR. But then again, I’m not doing as life is too short to be involved with this nonsense and there may be risks I don’t see. MSTR reminds me of the pre-IPO days of GBTC. People thought GBTC trading at a 40% premium was high but then it went to a 30% discount when Bitcoin collapsed in 2022. Seems like history could repeat itself here.

Pbake

It’s basically a closed-end fund of Bitcoins that trades at a large premium. No idea why it trades at a premium whereas GBTC traded at a large discount until it opened up.

StraightArrowNGarro

Why would you go for MSTR, instead of something that tracks Bitcoin specifically, like GBTC or IBIT or something? You can still buy options on those.

AwkwardObjective5360

Yes it does. The best investment I ever made was on GBTC in November 2022. I bought into it on FOMO in 2021, rode a big red dildo like 80% down, and poured into it thinking I must be stupid for buying all the way down. It went up over 900%. I have the opposite problem now, **I can't bring myself to fucking sell**. Too stupid, or something.

Ceyenne18

damn! dodge a bullet. was tempted to buy GBTC when corn was $95k

EventHorizonbyGA

A penny stock is a stock that trades under $5.00. You want stocks that traded under $1.00 after 2015 that have "grown tremendously." That phrase implies steady growth not a jump in price. So let's ignore stocks like $DRUG. NVDA was .80 in 2015. <- Duh. GBTC was .61 CELH was .64 EXPI was .40 AEYE was .90 There are literally 100s.

ViskaRodd

I’ve got over $3m in MARA averaged around 17.3 added late last year. I’m bullish bitcoin, and at current price, it’s not much higher than the value of the bitcoin. It’s also got more than 20% of the float held short. As bitcoin regains $100k and pushes past $110k, there is a good chance MARA will squeeze. I can see MARA easily getting into the $40s as BTC gets into the $130k range. I see it as a leveraged BTC play. Once the squeeze plays out I will shift to BTC directly. As MARA dips even below BTC value (NAV), I will sell BTC profits to buy MARA. This is how i used to trade GBTC back when it would trade at a 100% premium. loaded up when GBTC traded at a discount. Then sold when it was at a massive premium and just swapped back into BTC. Yes taxable, but the excess profit MORE than made up for the tax.

JMSeaTown

10yr play, which one are you throwing $100K into, COIN, MSTR, GBTC?

JMSeaTown

Can’t buy CORN direct thru BrokerageLink, but I can buy any stocks… what are the best tickers for positions? COIN, GBTC, MSTR?

edfitz83

I had to sign something a bit more nicely worded with Fidelity to trade GBTC and TQQQ. Made my money and I’m out, unless the market goes full bear. Still won’t trade bitcoin again.

waitinonit

I can tell you what I did. I'm retired and depend on my IRA for a portion of my income stream. I'm in my early 70s and now have a 40/60 portfolio distribution. For me a 4.6% overall portfolio annual yield is "nice". For the stocks I hold ETFs: SPY, QQQ, FTEC, ITOT, DIA (which is out of favor with many folks), as well as a little GBTC/BTC (a few % of my portfolio) and, like everyone else some NVDA. I'm currently reinvesting any dividends. On the 60% fixed income side I have a bond ladder that generally goes about 11 years out. This currently gives me about a 4.7% yield, but that should increase when some CDs (bought them in 2019 and they've been giving me a whopping 2.% yield) I have mature this year, and replenish the rung with corporates. I'm anticipating an increase in fixed income yield to 5%. I plan on replenishing the rung with bonds about 11-12 years out. My fixed income is fairly evenly split between Treasuries and investment grade corporates, with about 17% of the fixed income portfolio being in BBB/Baa (lowest investment grade). So with the bond ladder extending 10+ years and a willingness to purchase some BBB/Baa grade, the returns with newly purchased rungs have been exceeding my target returns. I also have some 20 year treasuries giving about a 4.8% YTM. I purchased these as a sort of buffer to help keep me in the 4.6% overall portfolio return. Not sure where you are with respect to a Regular IRA versus a Roth IRA, but I have to say that I regret not doing Roth conversions when I was working and had an income stream to pay the tax hit. I only qualified for a Roth IRA for one year early in my career (electrical engineering). To do the transfer now, I'd have to pay the tax hit out of converted funds. I looked at the numbers and nothing jumped out at me and said "do the conversion". I've consulted with a few money managers and financial advisors, and they concurred. So I'm looking at RMD in a couple of years. It's all working for me, so far.

ResponsibilitySea327

MSTR is a repeat of pre-ETF GBTC. Grayscale was the largest institutional holder of BTC and did the same thing. Ran a "free money" scheme that eventually led to shareholder dilution. At one point it traded at a 50% discount to its underlying BTC holdings. I still think MSTR and BTC will go up in the mid-term, but it will crash hard and will probably damage the whole BTC ecosystem as there is no viable way to unwind this.

TulsaGrassFire

There is an entire twitter community of irresponsibly long MSTR holders. Over half my funds are in MSTR and bitcoin-related investments. I bought GBTC in 2014, mined in 2017, and bought MSTR in August of 2020. Don't short it...even with a long bitcoin. You don't have a thorough understanding of what you are talking about. There are way too many catalysts and almost no risks involved in bitcoin and MSTR, right now. Here is just one quick item to think about: The ratio you mentioned of the stock price to the bitcoin holdings. When it is higher than 1:1, Saylor can issue shares and get a discount on bitcoin. At 2:1, he gets a 50% discount, at 3:1, he gets a 67% discount. As a shareholder, would you want him to get a discount? Of course you would. So, do you mind owning at 2:1? 3:1? NO you don't. You are high-fiving people when that's the number. Sure, you could sell for some apparent profit, but then you are out of the trade and stuck just buying plain old bitcoin or waiting for the ratio to go down. So, what's the right number? How high is too high? What if you sell and he's getting a 90% discount? I don't know what number is too high, but given FASB rule changes, index inclusion into QQQ Friday with incoming passive flows, and likely much more significant SPY inclusion next year, I could see that number getting significantly higher, in which case your long bitcoin short MSTR will eat you alive. You want a trade? Long MSTR, sell out of the money calls for 30 days at 100% OTM for 2%. Otherwise, just buy MSTR and get rich. It is going to be the largest market cap stock on the planet and there is really nothing that can stop it other than 1) Saylor dying (might stop it) 2) Government saying you cannot issue more shares (in which case it becomes a closed-end fund and I don't see that happening before bitcoin hits $1 million.

MutaliskGluon

It's like back in 2017 with GBTC. I was long it, and there was a week where BTC went down and GBTC went up. It's ratio of price to NAV exploded from 1.5 to 2.0 as everyone was rushing to buy GBTC since they couldn't buy bitcoin. Then when btc went down the NAV ratio went down to low 1s, so people lost money on BRC going down AND the premium going down. MtSR can outperform btc if it's premium goes up. Problem is when premium goes up mstr sells shares or debt to buy btc which causes downward pressure on said ratio.

BitcoinMD

Definitely get out of GBTC, no reason to pay the high fees. As for what to move it into, I think it’s wise to spread it among funds with different custodians to hedge against potential catastrophic technical failure. Ark divides its bitcoin between Coinbase and bitgo, and fidelity is its own custodian. So I use ARKB and FBTC.

StatisticalMan

For an IRA yeah do that yesterday. You are paying massive fees for nothing with GBTC. Someone holding GBTC in taxable has a tougher situation but I am surprised you didn't sell and buy another ETF the day the new vastly cheaper options went live.

ChaoticDad21

Yes, get out of GBTC immediately.

notapersonaltrainer

47% discounted Bitcoin in GBTC was insane.

dcgradc

Great! In the Bitcoin community, I recommend BTC or GBTC from Grayscale bc they grow faster than Bitcoin. I had Ethereum and sold to buy ETHE. Grayscale is magical .

B111yboy

Nice holding 12k shares of sofi, 2k shares of PLTR just wish I split them up a little more and less sofi and more PLTR. Buying any of these in 2022-2023 was a no brainer. Bitcoin I have some GBTC at 11 but definitely should have bought more and selling my UAL at 80 was a mistake. Some weed stocks are my only bad investment.

dcgradc

BTC + GBTC (Grayscale ETFs) go up faster than Bitcoin . ETHE is the same with Ethereum

SovietBoss

> China needs to ban again Mr. Pooh is having trouble himself deciding between FBTC, GBTC, BITO, IBIT, etc...

dcgradc

GBTC or BTC from Grayscale grow faster than Bitcoin and BTF . AXON is a stock with an expanding market. BBAI is considered a competitor of PLTR

Ghola_Mentat

Grayscale spun off a mini-trust from GBTC with the ticker BTC. BTC has the lowest fees of all the Bitcoin ETFs. If you have GBTC in an IRA, I would sell GBTC and buy BTC.

twarr1

Good to know. I didn’t research a lot, I just dumped all my bitcoin and threw the $ in GBTC.

373331

GBTC is outrageous at 1.50%. But I do understand why they kept it high But all the other 10 Bitcoin ETFs are 0.25% or right around there. Fidelity's (FBTC) is 0.25%. I think the lowest is 0.18%

potatowned

Same. Bought GBTC and ETHE in 2018 as a flyer. Sold ETHE but still holding GBTC. I now also have shares of BTC which split off from GBTC.

twarr1

GBTC

atomiccheesegod

I put $5000 into GBTC about 7 years ago and forgot about it, it’s doing very well

snek-jazz

Personally where I am in Europe I can buy neither BTC nor the spot ETFs (except the awful GBTC, lol) in my retirement account, but I can buy MSTR. The increase of BTC per share has been a nice unforeseen benefit.

OMGIAmScrewedHelp

I kind of used the emotion of excitement and bought some GBTC and It has the best rate of return in my portfolio lol, but I totally agree on my long term investments I use data only 😊. What an amazing ride you've had!

PoignantPiranha

Hypothetically, if you were buying puts on Bitcoin, would you buy it through GBTC, BTC, or some other ticker? And why?

ResponsibilitySea327

It doesn't even need to crash, it BTC were to trade sideways for a year MSTR's stock price would be toast as the premium disappears. This is just an early repeat of Grayscale. People sold their BTC for GBTC shares which they turned around and sold for a huge premium (after a 12m holding period). It was a "free money glitch". At least until it wasn't. BTC leveled out and the premium tanked. And the then the opposite happened -- the premium turned into a massive discount as the forward looking price of BTC looked dim. Not to say people can't make money on MSTR, but at some point the merry-go-round will stop and violently thrown them off.

Sutaru

I believe there are options chains for IBIT, BTC, FBTC, GBTC, and BITO. I don’t know if there are others. I haven’t purchased any, but I can see them on Fidelity.

Sutaru

IBIT, BTC, GBTC, FBTC, and BITO appears to all have options chains. I don’t know if there are others.

gtbifmoney

Being up on your shares is a huge mental and financial advantage. You can start tomorrow. But if IBIT goes down 20% you’ll be down on all your shares but your option will have been a good sell. For me I’m up over 800% in GBTC and over 60% in IBIT. It’s a major advantage. For me 90% of this game is half mental.

Financial_Design_801

[IBIT, GBTC, FBTC, ARKB, BITB, BTC](https://twitter.com/jseyff/status/1859597534869500092?s=46&t=ihVglVXC0BQSbw6j57EoaA) IBIT has majority of volume right now so more opportunity may be in the others pricing

BroasisMusic

> It never seemed to me that the actions of the SEC under Gensler was anti-crypto. If anything, many of the actions by the SEC paved the way to legitimize certain crypto assets. Are you serious? The Winklevoss twins applied for the first bitcoin ETF back in TWO THOUSAND THIRTEEN!! Because it wasn't approved, you had shit like the the closed-end GBTC fund which resulted in the ridiculous NAV premium trade which drove companies like BlockFi and Celsius to bankruptcy. Way to go, SEC...

EDWARD_SN0WDEN

they made me go in person so I got laid off instead and stuck eh severance into GBTC, this was last year, im up over 3x on it

CryptoAnarchyst

Bought GBTC in 2016 for the $50K, sold it when BTC got to about $16K or so and watched the mountain blow... then bought GBTC back in when BTC hit $7K ish and rode it up since then... Started branching out to different investments, got into MSTR at $195 mid October, pulled the trigger on the last milly buy at $368... so my average buy is $300/share for MSTR... that has worked out so far. I've spent a ton of time learning about the crypto market and the industry. We are so early in this that it isn't even funny... when these WSB degens start telling you that MSTR is the next Gama Squeeze, it's time to ride that bitch high and then pull the cord.

TulsaGrassFire

Not in my IRA. Not in my brokerage account either, because 96% of my funds are in retirement accounts due to holding GBTC then CXBTC then MSTR plus various good picks courtesy Lyn Alden and I don't have that type of margin. When you have conviction you go big. I have conviction. Here are the possibilities, and my personal odds: 1) Bitcoin goes to zero in the next 3 months. 5% (it can happen so let's make it a big number) 2) Bitcoin dumps to $58k on some horrible headline risk. (Worse than FTX?) 10% 3) Bitcoin goes sideways and up some to $99k (15%) 4) Bitcoin goes Up substantially $125k (30%) and I can stop working whenever I want 5) Bitcoin goes vertical (40%) and I have FU level money, stack 1/3 in Gold, 1/3 in Bitcoin and 1/3 in MSTR I mean, those are how I see it. #1 hurts a lot, I lose 3/4 of my retirement funds. #2 hurts some, I lose 1/4 or so. The other? GRAVY. Given those probabilities, my investment should be large, right? Half the portfolio or so sounds more than reasonable. The other part you don't know is that I'm ill and I have no idea if I have 7 days left, 7 weeks left, 7 months left, or what. It is a unicorn illness, essentially. So, I don't give a flying flip about taking on risk up to a point - this is all going to my family and they have ample life insurance. I'm simply thrilled to see what is obviously the supercycle for Bitcoin taking off.

snek-jazz

The Mt Gox coins being distributed was another huge dump on the market though, and earlier in the year people trapped in GBTC finally being able to get out at spot price. What we're seeing now is that demand since the ETF's lanuched without the sell pressure that various once-events events this year.

offmydingy

Blockchain is basically obsolete. Grab profits out of funds like GBTC and IBIT when you can, but get out before it all crumbles.

No-Swimmer6470

GBTC.

DetroitRedWings79

Simba, everything the 🌽 touches (GBTC, COIN, MSTR, RIOT, MARA) is your kingdom 🦁

jeffh19

I don't know about double digit increase as BTC looks like it was about $76.6k at market close Friday and is $80k now, so thats not a 10% increase. Often I've noticed BTC make some good runs at night or on weekends and then settle back down to where it was by the time the market opens and what the GBTC price ends up being during active trading hours. I'd say it mostly just depends on what BTC is at market open, but I'd say around a 5% increase not 10%. But maybe people end up buying a ton of GBTC that shoots the price up higher. You should also factor in I have no idea what the fuck I'm talking about

Caesars_Palace321

SEC has already given permission for; IBIT GBTC ARKB FBTC BTC BITB to be options traded. It just depends when CBOE etc. put it in place and then for your broker to offer it. But as of end October they have been given the green light.

Dchella

Same. Also went into GBTC at the time which had a 40% discount to the BTC they were actually holding. Eventually that became 1:1 so it was essentially 8k..

SupermarketNo5365

Some advice please........ Ok so I am fairly new to investing and I have come into a inheritance. I have some money to invest and I am looking at the following portfolio split, would love some feedback, kinda nerve-racking! VOO - 44% QQQM - 21% XLK - 14% NVDA - 7% GBTC - 7% VUG - 7%

o0joshua0o

GBTC and Nvidia

alfapredator

# Bitcoin Just Failed the Coronavirus Test By [Dan Caplinger](https://www.fool.com/author/1494/) – Mar 13, 2020 at 10:05AM # [NYSEMKT: GBTC](https://www.fool.com/quote/nysemkt/gbtc/) # Grayscale Bitcoin Trust (BTC) Wasn't the cryptocurrency supposed to be the answer to exactly this sort of problem? Bitcoin has taken investors on a roller-coaster ride, and although its value has risen dramatically since its inception more than a decade ago, it's had plenty of huge downdrafts along the way. The latest plunge in bitcoin, though, comes at a time when many would've thought the cryptocurrency would be most likely to soar: in the wake of the global COVID-19 pandemic. On Thursday, bitcoin suffered its worst one-day drop in years, falling from $7,600 to $5,300. The price of the popular cryptocurrency approached $4,000 at moments on Thursday night. Shares of the bitcoin-tracking **Grayscale Bitcoin Trust (**[**GBTC**](https://www.fool.com/quote/nysemkt/gbtc/) 4.31%**)** followed suit. With the price of [bitcoin having been above $10,000](https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/02/11/bitcoin-10000-is-it-for-real-this-time.aspx) as recently as mid-February, the question many crypto investors have is why the token's price failed to deliver on its promise as a safe-haven asset in times of turmoil in the traditional financial system. # How the coronavirus infected bitcoin's investment thesis For a long time, cryptocurrency advocates have argued that tokens are ideal safe havens from the uncertainties of the broader financial markets. With a fixed supply and strict rules for releasing new tokens onto the market, bitcoin arguably isn't subject to the same manipulation that central banks and government entities can use with their fiat currencies. In past events that have caused strain on the financial markets, bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies have typically seen their prices rise. Moves like the Federal Reserve's injection of liquidity into the credit markets on Thursday certainly seemed to be the sort of thing that would usually inspire bitcoin investors to get more bullish. In that light, the coronavirus-inspired plunge in bitcoin prices seems anomalous. Yet the knee-jerk explanation from many financial experts for bitcoin's plunge was that cryptocurrencies had essentially lost their safe-haven status and were once again perceived as a risky asset. That's inconsistent with the basic investing thesis many cryptocurrency investors have in justifying their bitcoin holdings, and if it's true, it would potentially be a big blow to the idea that bitcoin offers a safe alternative to fiat currencies and assets that are tied to those currencies. # Is there another explanation? Although Thursday's drop in bitcoin was most notable, the decline in the crypto token's price started to accelerate earlier this week. That happened to coincide with the dramatic plunge in oil prices stemming from news that Russia and Saudi Arabia had failed to come to an agreement in limiting crude oil production. With bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies playing a key role in those parts of the world, the connection to this hit to the energy markets made some sense. However, those who are more familiar with the cryptocurrency markets pointed to another possible cause. A Ponzi scheme run by an entity called PlusToken has taken advantage of cryptocurrency investors in China and Korea in recent years, fraudulently taking roughly $2 billion in bitcoin and other tokens from the scheme's victims. A cryptocurrency exchange executive said that sales of bitcoin by PlusToken might have been a contributing factor in starting the avalanche of downward price action, with the Ponzi scheme con artists reportedly moving their crypto holdings in ways that would make it more difficult to track sales. # What's ahead for bitcoin? The problem that bitcoin and other [cryptocurrencies](https://www.fool.com/articles/cryptocurrency/) face is that there's no single reason why investors choose to own them. Some see bitcoin as a legitimate alternative to fiat currencies, but others simply speculate that they can buy bitcoin low and sell it high, with the primary goal of increasing the value of their dollar-based portfolios. As long as risk-sensitive speculators are heavily involved in the bitcoin market, cryptocurrency investors can expect to continue seeing violent price swings -- even for reasons that don't seem to make sense. It'll take a more concerted effort to unify bitcoin users with a common purpose in order to smooth out the cryptocurrency's price action going forward.Bitcoin Just Failed the Coronavirus Test

Inevitable_Grouse

I’ve been in GBTC since last year or earlier and I just trust fidelity so went FBTC

offmydingy

Because the local rank of an individual website is meaningless. I can say Bitcoin posta got 25,000 or more upvotes within the last month. That means exactly as much as whatever Morningstar rank GBTC has. Nothing, at all.

snek-jazz

> a) buy directly on an exchange Can't do it from pension accounts. > b) buy on etf the many etfs? 96% are not American, and it varies how much access they have to these ETFs, I'm in a European county and the only one I can buy in the my tax-free pension account is GBTC which has horrible fees. Even if you can buy the ETFs you may want to go with MSTR for the potential of greater upside, as has played out so far, either because it's trading at a premium, or because Saylor manages to increase the btc per share ratio in the future. - Google "MSTR accretive dilution", or read some stuff on the /r/mstr sub about it if you like.