IC

Broad-Regular-5341

The Internet Computer (IC) utilizes a "reverse gas model," where canister smart contracts are charged for the resources they consume using cycles. These cycles have a fixed value pegged to the International Monetary Fund's Special Drawing Rights (XDR), with 1 trillion cycles equivalent to 1 XDR. [Internet Computer](https://internetcomputer.org/docs/current/developer-docs/gas-cost?utm_source=chatgpt.com) This pegging ensures that the cost of operating on the IC remains stable, regardless of fluctuations in the price of ICP tokens. Therefore, even if the market price of ICP increases, the cost of using the system does not necessarily rise, as the conversion rate between ICP and cycles adjusts to maintain consistent operational costs. Basically it means that even if ICP gets expensive/cheaper the cost of compute stays the same. Its pretty fricken cool that they thought of that too. Honestly its what AWS and Azure should have been to begin with, its so good.

thevilleone

I work for an American electronics company and we are building our apps on IC…

nomorebonks

No problem good luck. ICP is definitely built to tackle the billions spent on insecure web2 infrastructure. Let me know if you put something on the IC I’ll check it out.

nomorebonks

Thanks I just hate seeing this called a scam when it's clearly amazing tech. [Here's](https://internetcomputer.org/docs) the docs, the [forums](https://forum.dfinity.org) and the [SDK](https://internetcomputer.org/docs/current/developer-docs/setup/install) too. Development is a bit different - canisters are basically the smart contracts, but hold all data, storage, code, web, etc. and serve the web content directly from the chain. There's no traditional RDBMS but instead it's using "Orthogonal Persistence" where the data is integrated into the programming model. You can use [Motoko](https://internetcomputer.org/docs/current/motoko/main/motoko) which was created for the IC. Also you can use Rust, and there are libraries for Javascript, Python and I believe Typescript. [Azle](https://github.com/demergent-labs/azle) as some frameworks to use. Front end is mostly React/Vue from what I've seen. LAMP stack porting should be in the works too I believe. I'm a ASP.NET dev so it wasn't as familiar of a environment to me, but with WSL I got a site deployed to the IC in about 2 hours. Really easy to just push it up to the IC over something like AWS. There's an AI on the home of the IC site too for questions, but the forum is very active. Hope you check it out since it should eliminate a lot of headaches you're probably dealing with in traditional IT.

LucidiK

Ah, sorry about that. Pretty deep in the thread, wasn't expecting new opinions. I've stated multiple times ICP is better designed for many of those applications. The pushbacks I have in this conversation have been with ETH not being an IC (already addressed) and ICP being more secure? How is it more secure? Validators being hosted on AWS is not the vulnerability y'all have been implying. The part that would need to break would be the internet as a whole. Which would also destroy ICP functionality as well.

nomorebonks

Pretty quick on ICP at this point - really close to web2 speeds. Not sure where you're getting the idea it's slow. Token is really for governance since the entire IC is ran as a DAO unlike any other software development platform ever created.

Hitchie_Rawtin

[Dmail](https://dmail.ai), [DSCVR](https://dscvr.one/) (pretty sure these guys host their images/videos on Web2 services, will detail why in the next paragraph), [OpenChat](https://oc.app/) What it does poorly is hugely data-heavy user-generated content or any service like YT that requires enormous initial upload size and may never even be viewed - in a centralised service they get to subsidise that with ads and data-mining but with a blockchain which obfuscates user IDs between apps that would be an atrociously expensive waste of money (as shown by a TikTok/Insta Reels-type app on the IC called Yral which has barely any use at all but seems to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars every few months on cycles/the fuel for computation).

nomorebonks

What's not possible is altering or corrupting the data or code of any application controlled by an SNS on top of the IC in a tamper-proof environment. The entire IC itself actually since it's entirely ran as a DAO and all changes are controlled by the protocol. I mean if you can't see that then there's nothing else to talk about and just agree to disagree. The Internet Computer is clearly the most secure development platform to ever exist.

nomorebonks

It's literally what Vitalik was talking about though - a world computer. The paper mentioned in the tweet he responded to was basically describing ICP. The IC is open source too.

nomorebonks

The IC is more secure than any web2 platform. That's all that really matters as we move onchain with software development.

nomorebonks

You can't directly alter SNS applications on the IC. It's immune to certain attacks that won't ever be solved on web2 infrastructure.

nomorebonks

The IC is absolutely immune to certain cyber attacks that plague web2 like code injection and tampering.

nomorebonks

You should look into how replicated compute for consensus works on the IC. Web2 is broken - the internet computer is solving for a lot of it's issues.

commo64dor

IC, or more specifically, ICP has a decentralisation problem at the moment. This is an extremely cool technology with lots of non standard features that can be viable as a world computer

ZekeFaux

IC3 is definitely a good thing to do. As soon as you suspect you might be getting scammed you've got to find someone in law enforcement to help you. If the first cop you try doesn't get it, try another one. Because they can send a letter to Binance or Tether and get an account frozen. And sometimes the scammers aren't so quick to move their money to a new wallet and cover their tracks. But watch out for firms that claim to be able to help you recover your money. often that's a second scam. She's only one person but Erin West, a retired prosecutor, is kind of a clearinghouse for law enforcement on these things. She can help direct you to the right person. She's active on linkedin: [https://www.linkedin.com/in/erinnordbywest](https://www.linkedin.com/in/erinnordbywest) The horrors of the scam compounds are unimaginable. It sounds like some kind of pizza-gate conspiracy--thousands of people trapped and forced to scam under threat of torture or worse. But it's true. I've seen these places and talked with people who've escaped. The problem seems to be getting worse too. New compounds are being built across SE Asia and there are reports of new ones in other places too, like Dubai and around Africa.

Hitchie_Rawtin

Daily revenue higher than every other L1 worth less than $100b, dev forum and discord busy building as opposed to scratch'n'sniffing their arseholes while shitposting on Reddit (the discord has 28k proven human devs), development metrics spiking, contracts created spiking, compute spiking, chart of ICP being burnt looks like a hockey stick, literally the only project performing AI on chain - the rest are token databases representing off-chain AI compute, the first non-custodial BTC bridge, the first project to proliferate passkey tech in production, Dmail which is a multichain email service & hosted on the IC has 25m users... Is ICP dead, or are you illiterate?

commo64dor

IC has really cool features, the on chain cryptography is not only cool but also useful. However its centralization remains a problem

Salamanber

It will touch the red IC candle on the 4h chart and from there on it will go up, mark my words

dieci10x

victims of these pig butchering scams call my office often, weekly, and unfortunately, there isn’t much that can be done. FBI has IC3, but I only see them act and recover on amounts that are in the millions. https://www.cbsnews.com/romancescams/

TexasBoyz-713

IC~~u~~P hahahahha

URPissingMeOff

Thanks. I was always under the impression that well and refinery gas got flared because it was a bit too dirty to run directly in IC engines. Is there some extra maintenance with these setups? I've never really understood the "too dirty" argument overall and suspected that it was really a phony excuse for "cuts into dividends and C-level bonuses too much" since literally anything that burns can fire a boiler and make steam.

Hitchie_Rawtin

Compute on the chain (every single action when it's used) burns the token, so the more it's used the more it burns. Two memecoins popped out in the last week that leveraged compute to mine their blockchains which are hosted on the IC, they made it temporarily deflationary yesterday. Good for a stress test to see how much load subnets can handle, but unless they pivot I don't really see much value being added by them apart from burning through ICP, although it is a novel experimental way to launch tokens I guess & if people want to burn through their ICP to gain some memecoins as a gamble I'm a-ok with that.

Interesting_Tax3039

That smacks of Fraud and would be illegal. Report your facts to www.IC3.gov.

Rampage-De

Have a look at ICP and what's already possible on the IC blockchain :)

RoundsDownRangeCEO

Okay this is going to be a little wild, stupid and crazy. After going through her documents and emails, I realized in the first 3 emails he ever sent, he actually used his .mil military email and then said it was getting shut down and to delete and use a different address. After 15 back and forth calls with the US Army CID - they confirmed, they followed up on the IC3 form( and we found and confirmed who he really is. He matches the person in the video at the USPS office sending the counterfeit checks also to her. (Here’s the kicker, He’s still active duty)

XMRoot

It doesn't matter, IC3 is a joke anyway. They wouldn't lift their finger for this small of an amount.

rgmundo524

Report the situation to IC3. It's the FBI hotline. https://www.ic3.gov/Home/FileComplaint

Ok-City8641

Report to FTC, local authorities, and Bitcoin ATM operators; help friend file complaint with IC3 and monitor financial accounts closely

Emergency-Gene-3

Interesting. Usually when you connect to search console, you can use that ownership verification in Bing Webmaster Tools to connect your properties there also. Make sure you've submitted the correct properties, https and the relevant www or non-www domain depending what you have set up. I'm setting a goal to get some IC hosted websites ranking in top positions for smaller niche topics as a way to test how they scale and operate with web2 tools.

RDForTheWin

Thanks. I managed to connect the sites to google to see how they perform, and it's not great. But that's not the fault of IC. I'm not famous so people won't search for my site. Also, Bing refused to let me connect the site with their equivalent of Google Console. Without telling me why, of course. It found no errors but the site can't be festured on Bing.... I highly doubt that it's an IC issue. I saw posts complaining about this exact thing and they definitely weren't using IC for hosting.

Emergency-Gene-3

Nice. Thanks for sharing. I took a good look around your websites. Good to see you made it mobile responsive! A few have missed this mark. I'm always interested to see how IC hosted sites perform and their pagespeed insights etc. Also SEO implementation etc. I can't wait until the ICP has it's own domain hosting vendors etc. Canary Islands .ic will get busy lol.

Emergency-Gene-3

Nice! Content is also crawlable by existing robots. Such a win for Web2 to Web3.0 transition. I'm also in the process of hosting a site on the IC. Feel free to share any links to some sites you've created. I always like to analyse sites on the IC. How often do you need to top up canister cycles?

RDForTheWin

As someone who uses IC for hosting websites, I can confirm that it is not a scam.

Nogyer_Overflow_21

Yeah , my contact there is someone by the name of Olivia Gosling and the professor who ran the show chat room - Prof Wilbur Parker. She was so nice too, not sure of her identity Not sure if Olivia  is really a girl or what. I cannot get hold of her now. Their VVCT platform is unreachable now. I tried several times but no to avail and it looks like they taken down the VVCT platform from last week. Looks like I’ve been scammed and I lost about 30K of investment with them. I have 70K In VVCT trading platform. Were you a part of their WHALE Program? looks like we have been whaled by them. It’s scam . I reported them to our local police dept and FBI IC3 website. 

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; The FBI has issued a warning about scammers impersonating cryptocurrency exchange employees to steal funds. These scammers contact consumers, claiming there's an issue with their account and either request login details or provide a fraudulent login link. The FBI advises consumers to be skeptical of such calls, never disclose security credentials, and to contact the exchange and report the incident to the FBI's IC3 if they believe they've been defrauded. This scam is part of a larger trend of increasing call scams in the US. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

Legitimate-Source-61

They are already planning ahead by curtailing demand. Electric vehicle mandates, and the banning of IC leaf blowers are just small examples.

aggredior_amor_4304

Report to FBI's IC3 and don't pay the ransom, it's likely a scam.

nomorebonks

The launch was sabotaged by FTX/SBF/Alameda with perp trading to increase the price prior to genesis. It isn't exactly a crypto but a full stack 100% on chain software development platform and will be very important for private AI compute as well. It's more of a competitor to legacy IT tech since everything is a tamperproof smart contract on the IC that cannot be hacked in the traditional ways that makes web2 vulnerable (firewalls, credential hacks, malware, ransomware). I don't see it as a scam at all since the tech is very real but it may not turn out to be the best investment.

galloots

Yikes! Unspent transaction Output. Basically there is a fee to close the transaction as well. So if you send to a wallet in small amounts, your UTXOs can rack up. Some links below. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unspent_transaction_output https://youtu.be/AUJ9QtK2RxQ?si=dcIDIxl4IC8kfl30 https://youtu.be/lPIegwOnsKo?si=i4CUY2mEa53nZtLH

Equal_Yak3114

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Hitchie_Rawtin

> I'd bet it's possible to track users between sites with cookies, auth, or both. If the dapps are on the IC they have different wallet addresses attached to each site which are obfuscated from the dapp owners so they never know the user's principal ID in control of those accounts. One vector of attack there would be a dapp developer owning nodes across all subnets & setting up enough very popular sites across enough subnets (37 now? Still gameable with a lot of money) that you have to put a lot of work/money into finding out which IDs are high value enough to bother tracking their movements across the network, so that's kind of useless because 99.99999% of people aren't worth tracking with that many gates being blocked. >Also agreed, though at that point the problem is what's it actually doing for privacy or decentralization at that point? Glad we agree on this: it's true, most people are glad to sacrifice privacy for free. I see generations swinging like a pendulum over time, I think a privacy meta will be wanted and chased after in future. If not then shit we're in a bad state. >The tech has been around for 15 years at this point I totally get this point of view but I still think it's very early days in terms of economic game theory, you can note a novice-like approach to it in the game theory behind ICP's tokenomics because in their heads (and at the time in 2016-2017, lots of people into ETH were waiting for it around then) "it couldn't fail" so their calculations were based off of presumed success. Which was subsequently fucked by a price drop and a huge market crash the very next day. Making something extremely decentralised either feels sluggish, wastes space and/or costs too much, so you have to keep paring back to the "good enough" realm and maybe coordinate the "good enough" with the "okay this is perfect", like you're saying with private or even consortium blockchains. > In short, if it was actually better for a lot of things then it would be being used for them already. True, but there are also market limitations in certain (or many I guess) spheres, monopolies and monopsonies will not allow competition to even be considered to the point that they tell events they're connected to to not allow performers in certain places for being "unfriendly" to them as a ticket provider when they're the monopolistic actor (oh hey TicketMaster!). There are blockchain ticket providers who have prevented all touts beyond going out of your own way to get fucked over outside of the native app which forces face value sales since 2017, still ongoing, doesn't really matter whether or not their token "moons" or not, if it's a high volume high value gig it will go up but they survive because they have a tax and it's a much lower cost than Ticketmaster & a black market doesn't exist for their tickets. That's a project that just works.

Hitchie_Rawtin

You're misinterpreting a couple of things there about who you'd want the site to be tamper-proof from, who you'd want to stop tracking the data (although your suggestion is a risk factor too but has the same reputational factor as standard cloud services), ignoring the sizable cost differential for everything in the stack in the long run and we disagree about blockchain having limited usefulness. Most of my friends are engineers btw, a few full stack, a few front end only, a few HW engineers including one who works for AWS throw in, a couple are building on the IC (as are all the other SW engineers building on it, coincidentally) and love Motoko - all of them find it interesting and don't poopoo it based on what they've preconceived the drawbacks to be based on a lack of inquisitiveness, they've actually bothered to read through the docs and grasped the benefits. They definitely poopoo it based on SBF's launch P&D and the main drawback (and it's a HUUUGE one) which is monetisation of apps and inability to subsidise content which wastes space with a long tail of not being accessed (user-generated video/picture sites which are the dominant category of the internet would be rendered useless by ingress costs on the IC). That lack of user tracking across sites and inability to advertise effectively (which currently subsidises most of the internet) is a huge hurdle, we both know people hate paying for shit and the silly blockchain answer to that is to try to shill collectible jpegs or a random token that...does...god what should it do? Blockchain devs in general really need to create a new model for their specific dapps (most seem to avoid having a project tax as if we're in biblical times or something but some of the best working projects have a tax to fund themselves) because until the blockchain aspect vanishes into the background and just becomes an invisible privacy, security and decentralisation measure it's a huge "yuck" factor for normal people.

Hitchie_Rawtin

Independent data centers versus AWS, Azure, Google Cloud, they're decentralising away from the kings of industry. Much much lower egress (data output) cost, one vertical tech stack versus you needing to sort out separate database, security, server accounts which introduce vectors of attack - exploits tend to exploit vulnerabilities in between the sellotaped-together current Web2 stack. Well, that and people, people making mistakes are usually the main culprit in a hack. They're going to be allowing servers outside of the strict spec they have at the moment eventually, but it'll still be very high spec and you'll need a 1Gbit connection minimum, I think the machines at the moment cost about $22k and require 30TB of NVMe storage 512GB RAM and an AMD Epyc CPU. I'd expect the next generation of requirements to be higher spec and probably around the same cost. Whether they allow you to become a node or not also depends on use of the network - there's no point paying tons of node rewards to an ever growing flood of nodes that aren't anywhere near max capacity. Current usage suggests it could be a year or two before they open up to onboard the people who've already signed onto the waitlist to become a node. There was talk about creating a sibling network called "Badlands" where the system requirements would be more of an anything-goes and people could choose poor performance for the sake of greater decentralisation, but that has been shelves at least for the time being. I personally think there's no point in doing it because it sounds like exactly what Maidsafe/Autonomi is aiming for, they can let them do the Badlands thing and incorporate and communicate with that chain via a canister in the future. Plus it's a bit of a waste of Dfinity's R&D time when they should focus purely on bolstering the IC's tech stack.

Hitchie_Rawtin

ICP's UX > atomic swaps, if you prefer clunky then stick with clunky. Some people use Linux without a GUI, most want a better UX from their OS. >Why would anyone move from AWS to a blockchain? A single vertical tech stack which covers the gamut from hosting to database to security versus the current meta of a hodge podge array of services you have to Rube Goldberg together which increases vectors of attack every step of the way plus it's cheaper in the long run. Ingress is free on AWS vs the $5/GB/yr for ICP but egress is where AWS make their money with AWS currently costing ~$0.023/GB versus ICP's $0.0002733/GB. The only instances where AWS wins is for bulky long tail data which is never accessed, so the gargantuan amounts of photo or video content generated by users is currently very unsuited to the IC. As for smart contract hacks, you have to understand the vast gulf between how many smart contract hacks (generally coded by relative novices in terms of cybersecurity) there are per year Vs the 300m+ attempted ransomware attacks per year, with entire health services of countries having been crippled by them in the last few years? Incomparable and an ill-considered argument that's very reminiscent of what Jamie Dimon would say about any crypto at all. Might as well pull the plug on the whole industry, centralisation is king because nothing really bad happens with the current tech stack, just several hundred million instances of attempted ransomware attacks and thousands which are successful. Anyway, I doubt facts will ever change your mind so have a lovely day!

Conculco_Depono_3721

Thanks for the warning! Report to FBI's Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) too.

Hitchie_Rawtin

Explain to us why unhackable websites with no need for a firewall is a bad thing. And once you say "but nothing is unhackable" we'll know you don't know how nodes work and probably have never read the word Byzantine before. Hack each node within one second, continue every step of the attack within one second, that's the only way to hack sites on the IC, and once you've "succeeded" at hacking the site, everything else is siloed within more smart contracts which you now also have to attack with sub-second finality. How does it feel to be a scumbag talking shit about a subject you've never researched?

Hitchie_Rawtin

Allows cheap multichain interoperability without a custodial bridge - it's a smart contract in control of an address on the other chain - (BTC, ETH both implemented SOL on testnet right now, ERC20s being tested), can act as an extra security layer for dapps interacting with other chains using its Internet Identity (secured via biometrics), inhibits tracking across the internet because each new dapp account gets its own new address anchored to your principal ID but obfuscated on the dapp side, allows websites to be built with no need for a firewalls because the site is inside a smart contracts, removes risk of ransomware attacks and DNS spoofing attacks due to each node hosting a site needing to be hacked all at once in under 1 second and every move after that also having to be finalised across those nodes in the same timeframe, can act as an oracle because of HTTPS outcalls, doesn't require users to spend money to use dapps due to a reverse gas model where the devs who own the site pay, can host data so now people don't need to hope that their NFT receipt will continue to pint to a website that might not exist in weeks, months or years to come - ingress is a bit more expensive but egress is much cheaper than AWS so user generated video sites will be useless until they find a way to reduce that cost but anything with static content will be far cheaper to run, can run AI within smart contracts and has a partnership with Singularity which I presume will transfer over to the new agreement between Singularity, Fetch and Ocean where they're joining forces to share research/data. If you do want to transact across the IC yourself rather than within a dev-funded dapp then costs are about $0.006, sub-cent. That's just off the top of my head, there might be more. Ignore anybody who says it's a "killer" of other chains, it's designed to augment every other chain.

kidhack

Seems a bit simplistic as IC also offers many security and privacy features out the gate that AWS doesn’t. It’s also an inherent bridge to BTC and ETH and soon USDC.

kidhack

Looks like Algo has about 1/100 avg and 1/3 max tx speed, and 2.8 seconds per block to IC’s 44 blocks per second all running on around the same number of nodes (~1400). https://metrics.algorand.org

kidhack

According to their dashboard Avalanche had a max of 328 TPS last week where IC is sitting around 5,500 TPS (1,000 more than Avax’s theoretical maximum) and had a 15k TPS 90 day peak. Does it really take 2000 Avax ($70k) to become a validator with a recommended minimum of 5 validators for a subnet? That’s $350k? Seems like a barrier to decentralization and way more expensive than IC nodes.

Jeremy_Thursday

Honestly I don't really think you should have all these downvotes for just asking a question, it's lowkey toxic. But to answer your question, \*anyone\* with ethereum can become a validator totally anonymously (decentralized). For IC you must DOX yourself and ask permission from a group of people to become a validator (centralized). Ethereum has it's own issues but I caution some of the thing you think are big-upsides to IC: Chain-size and transaction speed generally work great until that chain experiences mass adoption. If you see IC recieve the adoption level of solana expect it to have all of the same issues like bloated chain-size, slow/failed/congested network, potential outages, etc...

OderWieOderWatJunge

>The AI implementation on IC is next level compared to what anyone else is doing. What exactly does this AI implementation?

kidhack

I mean the IC will also improve as more nodes come online. Future promises are weak against current results.

dk349303

>lots of people I worked with couldn't set the clock on the microwave That might be true of "IT pro" but everyone in my tech shop is an IC. Half of us are SDE2 and SDE3s from FAANG, myself included. We don't enforce PIPs as strictly as Amazon but we do a pretty good job of forcing out underperformers. Map, encode, compress, translate are all close approximations of what hashing achieves. If someone reports that they "compressed values using SHA256" and a listener is unable to understand what that means, I'm probably going to assume the listener is an idiot.

yellcat

Report to the IC3 and local internet crime task forces. ETH transactions can be traced to their destination

faptor87

Er.. no. Institutions are not emotional players. If they have to divest away from BTC, they need to go through IC. Discuss, debate. It isn't so straightforward as going to your account and selling in panic.

rgmundo524

I am sorry, I am being insensitive. That sucks. Make sure to report the case to IC3. It's a far too common situation and people tend to blame the victims instead of the scammers.

rgmundo524

Damn... Well if you are an American you need to report it IC3 https://www.ic3.gov/

BinanceCSHelp

Hello u/Seddy01 ! We sent a DM to you over Reddit Chat section regarding this matter. We have a few updates about this situation. Is it possible for you to check our message and let us know more? Thank you so much! \^IC

nomorebonks

> I challenge you to enumerate a single specific thing that ICP does that is useful for a typical person. Sign ins with an identity that requires no user name or password. Never have to remember them. I sign in to every app on the IC with a simple face scan. Lol dude you have no idea. >And in all likelihood ICP would probably run on top of AWS as well I keep laughing at this one. 30 minutes would show you what is going on. This is an AWS competitor.

GiverTakerMaker

Ah. IC.

aNobleDemon

File a report with cybercrimes law enforcement such as FBI's IC3 division. Watch out for recovery scammers.

Hitchie_Rawtin

Very good project but their user base falls into that "monocoin zealot" trap that most fanbois fall into, thinking it's a "one chain to rule them all" situation, which isn't happening. Some might be put off by it being a consortium validated chain, but many are put off by the IC being a VC seed-funded chain so that's much of a muchness, people will find any reason to piss and moan. Especially BTC maxi scum. I'd like to see Hedera integrated with the IC some day, their tx throughput and sharding ability once it's needed is smart and much easier to scale than the IC's which needs new subnets and nodes to increase tx speed. They serve different purposes via different routes and shouldn't really be thought of as enemies but from being on the Hedera sub you'd think we pissed in their milkshake or something.

Hitchie_Rawtin

Maybe retail didn't know but the airdrop offer in 2017 was pretty big news at the time so I'd expect most 17ers who weren't BTC maxis to have seen the name at some point. The best base for learning the ins and outs is the [developer forum](https://forum.dfinity.org/categories), basically dfinity's version of ethresear.ch Due to how broad the project is it's very easy to get lost down whatever rabbit hole, it's all very technical much the same as ethresear.ch I'm as big a fan of ICP as I am of ETH, I was waiting years for ICP to release but I knew the price (like the price of everything in the main bull year) was ridiculous. Waited for the suicide hotlines to pop up during the bear and started buying, dumped a shit ton in when it hit below the last investor funding price. I think it has the potential to supercharge every crypto it integrates, it's a security, scaling and potentially even an abstract tooling solution for every project (using AI to audit token contracts as they try to onboard to a DEX would be a great use case) and it's throughput scales upwards as more nodes join. The downsides - the price chart kept ETH devs away from it for the past couple of years even though the IC is ostensibly an Ethereum add-on to help it become more secure and helps fill out Vitalik's vision for a "World Computer".

Hitchie_Rawtin

I'm very ETH and Layer 2 heavy myself, just don't see the point in talking about them cos they're already a part of the cryptoverse narrative. Personally think the IC will end up being a part of it too but this sub is determined to push disinformation about it, so I pipe up about it. Good luck to you to, hope you become a bajillionaire!

Hitchie_Rawtin

It was certainly overvalued, but there was a market for it for two years before the launch and the chart people see on CMC or coingecko, see [here](https://coincodex.com/crypto/internet-computer-iou/?period=ALL). People's shock at it entering the top 5 in 2021 is also a little misplaced, the last funding round for it in 2018 had it valued as a top 5 project at the time and it was years from launch at that stage. People need to stop being so tribalist about their coins - there won't be one chain to rule them all and ICP isn't trying to kill your project, it's trying to shift people's dependence on centralised servers and security infrastructure. All those DNS spoofing attacks where a fraudulent copy of a page like Metamask steals your keys? Impossible on the IC. Ransomware taking over a site? Impossible on the IC. Data breach of a company or governmental entity? Impossible on the IC. Everybody just wants to look at a chart and call it a failure despite the project having the aim to keep all users of all chains safer and it'll help all chains scale... but whatever. Remindme! 18 months

Desperate_Service398

What is an IC3 form & where do I report it?

BeginningBeautiful69

Okay, some good and some bad news: 1. This is 100% a scam and you're unlikely to get your money back. 2. The 1NKMe address is a Binance Deposit address and the bc1q 'mining' address, simply feeds into the Binance deposit address. 3. The Binance deposit address appears to receive money from at least one other scam and also from bitcoin ATM machines. 4. The Binance address was last paid into on 28 Feb after being used regularly for about a year. It may have been frozen. I doubt it will have any funds remaining. I'd advise you to fill out an IC3 form and get in touch with your local police.

Hitchie_Rawtin

> Where is decentralized internet? As well as MaidSafe this is literally what Dfinity have running right now. Maidsafe will be slower but not as slow as TOR(because anybody can be a node which means tons of shit computers making up a large swathe of the network) but if it gains traction it should be more decentralised, Dfinity operates at normal web speeds and acts as more of a performance-focused distributed and decentralised AWS. There's a bit of a "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink it" schism in the community, you can literally send your ETH to the Internet Computer and (checks last ETH transaction fee on the IC) transferring ETH costs $0.00665294. ERC support coming in around two months. Buuuuut people here hate the chart and the name, it gives them the big sads, so even if it's literally doing everything they're asking for, they'll still discount it, shit talk it, pretend it doesn't exist. So they get the fees and the ecosystem they deserve.

grey-doc

The Internet itself is a DARPA project. Tor comes out of the intelligence community. Up until quite recently, the IC has been a major proponent of secure anonymous free speech technology, up until people they didn't like started using their toys. Of course now their true colors are revealed and we can see all the democracy and free speech ideological agenda was a total scam, but the cat is out of the bag.

growling_owl

Watching ICP go to like 600 after the IC0 on Coinbase, watching it crash, and then buying at 150, so fucking certain it would at least double from that bottom. And then the bottom kept dropping....

sliver_cybersecurity

I'm an anonymous hacker, working with the Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) Team. we help victims recover lost money and information from scammers. are you a victim of scam?

Curious_Corey

That is bold lol. AI and gaming I think are better narratives but memes will catch up. Idk why you didn’t do this a couple months ago but more power to ya. I’m in 3 meme coins none of which your in: COQ INU, bc.. that shits funny. HUSKY bc.. it COULD be the dog of avax. And.. IC GHOST bc I believe in the technology of ICP. I don’t really believe you put that much money into memes btw… I tried to buy PEPE a couple months ago but the fees in coinbase wallet to buy it are fucking insane.

BeginningBeautiful69

This sucks, feel for you man. An expensive lesson. Post the public address/es the btc was move from, perhaps someone can trace where it moves to. Make sure you report this to police in you're jurisdiction and complete an IC3 complaint form.

Akadot

DAOs on the Internet Computer (ICP) work great. The IC is leading the number of proposals by a tenfold margin.

Snixxis

From my understanding, eventhough apple is a dirty filthy company their encryption is one of the hardest to crack, if your device is new enough. But I cannot state it enough that I hate apple, and I have no idea, but here are some pointers: The T2 chipset have integrated EAS 264 bit encryption and encrypts everything, but aslong as the chips are together you could recover everything if the person is skilled enough in doing so. I dont know if apple supports harddrive shredding but i never sell ssds and hdds used, they get drilled and thrown away. A phone is another area, since you cant just take the ssd out and sell everything else. See if you find a shredder. (Factory reset, run shredder - it just copies and writes / deletes files all over the IC over and over untill everything on the drive is a mess so nothing can be recovered) but i dont know if this is the case with apple. In theory if the wrong person gets the phone and have malice in mind everything could be recovered I guess, EVERYTHING.

Hitchie_Rawtin

> give an example where a decentralized application is more efficient than a centralized one Ransomware hacks. Try to recall the amount of headlines you've seen where an entire health service's database was hacked into over the last decade and locked up for ransom and/or leaked. Wouldn't have happened on the IC at all due to nodes acting as failure/hack/state-change checks every 1-2 seconds. That's a huge boon.

sy7ar

You're like 1/3 right. Most web 3 projects front ends are hosted on AWS, the ownership data is stored on a blockchain hence decentralized, but the blockchain nodes are also run on AWS whether that's decentralized is up for debate. Then the assets are on either AWS s3 or IPFS. On ICP, the full stack *can* be on the IC.

fllthdcrb

>> But is even that really necessary? Does Tails prevent you doing a simple copy-and-paste of the field, > > It wasn't Tails, it was the IC webpage it you try to roll over the QR it disappears, had to screenshot it. I don't think you understood what I said. The QR code carries the same information as the text. So just copy and paste the text, and ignore the QR code altogether! Why can't you do that? Works for me. Imagine if you got a link to some Web site in an email (let's pretend for a moment it's not presented as a link, so you can't just click on it, and also assume it's safe to follow such a link), and instead of copying and pasting it into your browser, you take a screenshot of the email, then run the screenshot through OCR software to get the text back. What you were doing feels somewhat similar to me. QR codes are only really useful in situations where you can't use copy and paste, like if you have two separate devices, or the information is on paper, or if copy and paste isn't usable for some reason. > Im off to look at Bitcoin Cores wallet as I have an extra computer as well. I don't think the Core wallet is terribly full-featured. Plus, is it even usable separate from the node functionality? Well, I suppose you can import and export transactions, but that seems clunky to me. It's definitely designed to integrate with the node. And I say this as someone who runs his own full node. I *still* don't use the Core wallet. > Tails /Electrum with spare offline phone for hot wallet Isn't this a contradiction in terms? A hot wallet, by definition, is *online*.

helloworld987456321

Thanks for the help. I think this will about wrap it up. I'm not sure I understand what this is about. Were these different things you tried? Did you create multiple wallets using these different steps? Or something else? Yes, made lots of wallets and to see what IC info was retained by the Electrum wallet. Example when you created the wallet using the IC Master Private Key QR the seeds are not kept by the Electrum wallet. It says False next to seeds in the Wallet Info tab. Yet all the receive addresses are there, derivation path looked ok, etc.... But I wasn't going to risk it, not when if you follow Electrums (non Bip39) ways that area says "Verified True". So I just gave up on the whole idea of using IC site to get better entropy and use it to create a stronger Electrum wallet. ------ I knew about 2 mirrors to correct, but I actually thought for a moment that it didn't need that help as there are squares in only three of the corners that should /could allow it to rotate and flip if needed. Im guessing they just aren't going to do that extra step as its probably a lot of work, more code to go wrong for .00001% of it being useful to anyone. But is even that really necessary? Does Tails prevent you doing a simple copy-and-paste of the field, It wasn't Tails, it was the IC webpage it you try to roll over the QR it disappears, had to screenshot it. A lot more people lose their bitcoin by losing or forgetting all the details of what they did than by actually having it stolen. This. Have heard that alot and decided not to go for the deep cold storage, wondering the sd card will survive, the paper, etc... Instead just stay current and redone everything when there is an upgrade, keeps you from getting rusty and makes sure not too many upgrades happen when your not looking. Im off to look at Bitcoin Cores wallet as I have an extra computer as well. But as for now I like Tails /Electrum with spare offline phone for hot wallet over Coldcard with the same phone, thx

fllthdcrb

> My thinking was to use the Ian Coleman "IC" site for its strengths and choose a different language as any hacker getting it from the USA would likely try English Why is English a problem? Are you thinking of dictionary attacks? I don't believe that applies here. Dictionary attacks work with *passwords* because people are not very random with their choice of passwords and like to make short ones based on a word or two. Key word: "choice". Passwords people choose tend to be low-entropy, because people are bad at randomness. However, here you are letting an RNG generate 128–256 bits of entropy. The mnemonic is nothing but an encoding of that entropy. It doesn't make it any easier to guess. But it *does* make it easier for you to handle as a human. That is, *if* you use the mnemonic, as opposed to just copying master keys or whatever. > derivation 84 (I was just saying 32 because earlier because it was the standard and messing it with is a good way to make your coins unrecoverable) thru experimenting I realized only 84 will produce bc1 addresses, which I think is best going into the future. BIP 84 is the standard that specifies the derivation path for P2WPKH (pay-to-witness-public-key-hash) wallets, P2WPKH being the script type that has "bc1q" addresses associated with it. So it makes sense you get those only if you choose BIP 84. Other choices there, other than BIP 32, correspond to other script types. One that is missing on that page is BIP 86, which is for P2TR (pay-to-Taproot) scripts, which have "bc1p" addresses. But then, Electrum doesn't yet support P2TR wallets. > 1. ... > 2. ... > 3. ... I'm not sure I understand what this is about. Were these different things you tried? Did you create multiple wallets using these different steps? Or something else? > if I could get the QR to work that would be great, but getting the laptop camera to snap a picture in a mirrror didnt work. QR codes generally cannot be scanned in mirror image, as they are not designed to make such a distinction apparent to a scanner. A mirrored QR code looks superficially like a non-mirrored one turned a different way, but things are in the wrong places. If you really need to have a device scan a QR code from its own screen, you need to use an even number of mirrors, so the image goes back non-mirrored. However... > However next to the camera button there was the choice to "Read from file". I snapped a screenshot (.png) and went to the .png file and entered it. It took a few seconds but it seemed to load/accept it Yes, this is a lot easier. But is even that really necessary? Does Tails prevent you doing a simple copy-and-paste of the field, instead of going through all that rigamarole? I'm not familiar with use of Tails, so I don't actually know. But surely there is an easier way than what you're trying to do. > enter 12 more custom words (this is another reason im using IC, I get a good set of 12 more words This is your passphrase, then. That's what the "extend with custom words" option in Electrum is referring to. > then the PassPhrase There is no "then" at this point. You have already entered your second 12-word phrase as the passphrase. There is no option to add anything more. If you want to enter 24 words in Electrum (which is of dubious benefit, as Bitcoin keys, being ECC, only have ~128 bits of security, the same as the entropy you get through a 12-word mnemonic), then just generate a 24-word mnemonic, which Electrum will accept as a BIP 39 mnemonic. It's only Electrum mnemonics that must be 12 words. > HERE IS the main reason Im trying to use the IC -as long as it doesn't make my wallet unrecoverable- it generates a 100 digit passphrase, the longest allowable, in my brain I hope you have a savant-level memory, because there is no way *I* would be able to remember something like that. And there is no way I can recommend it to anyone, including you. Word of advice: unless you have superb discipline, don't try to get fancy with your security measures. A lot more people lose their bitcoin by losing or forgetting all the details of what they did than by actually having it stolen.

Seffers_

I’m an IC worker myself which is covered under ‘gig workers.’ Someone only read the headlines. Not surprised

helloworld987456321

This. Your last sentence is what i have been unable to get reddit to understand , though im sure the breakdown is on my end. My thinking was to use the Ian Coleman "IC" site for its strengths and choose; a different language as any hacker getting it from the USA would likely try English tick the B39 passphrase derivation 84 (I was just saying 32 because earlier because it was the standard and messing it with is a good way to make your coins unrecoverable) thru experimenting I realized only 84 will produce bc1 addresses, which I think is best going into the future. Thats the easy part, but how to enter it into Electrum and get the "unlimited" addresses. The IC site has the ability to show QR if you roll over the text addresses. 1. Open Create Wallet in Electrum, (if the next choice was Import Private Keys that would be great, but I couldn't get the QR window to except the QR code from the IC website and i sure as h--- am not going to trust myself to type it in. 2. Open Create Wallet in Electrum, Standard Wallet, Use a Master Key - stumped...Master Key has both Public and Private Keys yes. IC site doesn't make it clear. 3. Open Create Wallet in Electrum, Standard Wallet, I have a seed, switch SEED TYPE from Electrum (drop down) to BIP39, enter 12 words, scroll down to tick box "Extend seed with custom words" (which always concerned me because people could add crazy words not in the B39 wordlist, they probably think it is the dictionary, 2048 seems small) then ENTER, enter 12 more custom words (this is another reason im using IC, I get a good set of 12 more words, hit enter retype your first 12, then your 2nd 12, enter, then the PassPhrase (HERE IS the main reason Im trying to use the IC -as long as it doesn't make my wallet unrecoverable- it generates a 100 digit passphrase, the longest allowable, in my brain -takes the longest to brute force, cut and past that in because I will be offline and the laptop won't be ever going back on (spare laptop). I really haven't decided whether to do a paper or thumb drive backup of the 24 seeds, passphrase and printouts of the MasterKey and Private Key, probably both in seperate locations. So what I can't tell is if its going to keep supplying address like I hope it will. An aside, I wish there was a wallet that used a mixed language wordlist, making it say 10x larger, but maybe 2048 is enough.

Zanena001

No they haven't. The project does more than decentralized hosting, e.g Akash, which is pretty much Airbnb but for renting servers, the execution is also replicated so you get the benefits of smart contracts: no single point of failure, censorship resistance and tamperproof execution. On top of that there are some features which help devs integrate their services with web2 and web3, the former by perfoming HTTP calls directly from IC smart contracts and the latter by using Threshold cryptography, which allows smart contracts to securely store private keys so that they can move funds natively on other chains. Also the IC execution layer is based on WASM VM, which allows it to run any language that can be compiled to it or that can be interpreted by a wasm supported language. Right now it supports: Rust, C, Motoko (IC's own language), JS and Python. With more languages being worked on. One IC dev recently demonstrated at ETH cinco de mayo how you can run a express.js server directly on the IC as a smart contract, which is pretty unique in the space, as it means web2 devs can easily transition to developing decentralized applications by leveraging the tech stack they already know.

Hitchie_Rawtin

There are sites on the IC already. DSCVR hosts an official Solana social site as well as being a general reddit-alike with hundreds of thousands signed up, OpenChat is like Discord, has 100k+ users, Bioniq Ordinals marketplace uses ICP as a sidechain tethered onto Bitcoin. Lots of possibilities.

Hitchie_Rawtin

Sites within the IC won't be able to track you, each site you sign in for creates a new wallet-as-ID controlled by your original canister/Internet Identity on your side but opaque to everybody else. All the new site sees is your new wallet. At best they'll see that *something* happened but they won't be able to connect the dots, collate the data & mine the data. Which is where the value is for data gathering.

Hitchie_Rawtin

/u/s1fro Firstly: everybody in here who's a monocoin zealot needs to see that ICP isn't trying to dethrone your coin - it's trying to augment your coin's abilities, it's a platform other chains benefit from much like Polkadot or Cosmos except more advanced and much more elegant from a UX standpoint. It's not competition as a layer 1, it's competition to the insecure and centralised ways apps currently interact with the web. Anybody remember a recent post where somebody got DNS spoofed and sent their coins to whoever managed to infect them? Wouldn't and couldn't happen on ICP. Impossible. Everything on-chain which means everything as secure as a blockchain or as secure as the smart contract on the chain. No data tracking across websites. No need for firewalls if hosting a site, no risk of snooping through your company servers from the outside - all past and future exploits dependent on vectors of attack presented by the current fractured nature of the modern tech stack rendered null and void. No risk of ransomware attacks, no hostile takeovers of sites or accounts unless they have the private key for the canister controlling the site or account (which realistically should be multisig if valuable anyway) and if somebody does manage to find an exploit in the contract your site is hosted within their hack will be be restricted to the node they're connected to and that WILL be noticed by the other nodes nodes in about 2 seconds and flagged/paused/reverted, so now in order to hack a website every single move has to be coordinated across the multiple nodes the site is hosted on and every action has to have no lag so each node gets the same update with 1-2 seconds. What about having a multichain wallet which isn't an app on your phone or dependent on a browser extension and is secured by threshold ECDSA and signed by your biometrics on your phone? It's in alpha, but [that exists](https://oisy.com/) and with chainkey Solana coming soon you'll be able to sign and swap tokens across networks for less than a cent at a time once it's on the IC using an Internet Identity without having to worry about spoofed pages/DNS/malware stealing your keys. What about having 200 of the most well-respected cryptographers in the world working for them, Whether it's IBM stalwarts or the L from BLS signatures Ben Lynn working for them (aka how ETH's Beacon Chain works, it was inspired by Dfinity's use of BLS signatures). What about Vitalik having consistent high praise for the project? And yet we're supposed to believe every turd-snorting shit for brains mongoloid on this forum knows better than him? Mmkay, you make your choices. Suffice to say I hold Vitalik's opinion in higher regard than a group of tribal regards who debate if DOGE or XRP will moon sooner.

ThoughtsonYaoi

>Decentralized web3 so no one can remove your website because they don’t like it. How does that work? >"In particular, smart contracts on the IC can service HTTP requests created by end users, so that smart contracts can directly serve interactive web experiences. This means that systems and services can be created without relying on corporate cloud hosting services or private servers, thus providing all of the benefits of smart contracts in a true end-to-end fashion." Is this how?

ProfessorPurrrrfect

I haven’t been robbed from exodus, but I have filed a complaint to the IC3 federal guys and never got a response. I tried to buy an antminer in like 2017 from a fake website for 0.1BTC. Anyways, I think those forms go right into some interns trash can on their office computer. You will never hear from the government about this complaint.

20kBTC

$ICP & $IC, all you need! Mark this thread and remind me 1 year later :) No financial advise!

Atakkyboi

>Have you had any contact by anyone since then? The report to the IC3 had everything, Local PD did not ask even though I assured them I could provide them. No status update. I wasn't even going to file local PD, but after someone found out what exact exchange it went through (CoinEx) I figured I might as well contact them and they said they cooperate if contacted by authorities. So my IC3 report and Local PD report are like 17 days apart. But CoinEx is also a no KYC and doesn't require ID apparently and is HK based. So no real grasp on hope but I decided to at least follow through and not just toss in the towel with no effort.

BeginningBeautiful69

You have fallen for a pig Butchering scam my friend. All the funds were sent to Huobi. It's probably a south east Asian twenty year old who has had their passport taken from the and they've been forced to scam you. The person is likely not female. The pictures you publish are modelled or stolen. The platform you show is just an empty bullshit application designed for the sole purpose of scamming people. Complete an FBI IC3 online report and contact your local police force ASAP. Unfortunately the chances of getting anything back are slim. Sorry for your loss. 😔

sam_s_r

Not really. Gold is extensively used in the semiconductor industry for IC manufacturing. No gold -> No chips (IC) -> No mobile phones, computers, and even bitcoin mining rigs!

Akadot

Well surely I don't know everything, but the Internet Computer narrative has peaked my interest lately. I've been in crypto for a while and always failed to understand how crypto would make it into our everyday life. It felt great to "move money around" but that's it. The IC has been the first project where I told myself: wow, that could actually be used for any app with the benefit of blockchain. I guess the main difference is you can host anything on chain (unlike other blockchains where is costs thousands of dollars to host 1Gb). So, not saying ICP will solve all your problems. Simply that it deserves some attention.

KILLING_MYSELF_TODAY

I’ve got a gigantic bag of neurons, IC alts, and IC nft’s ;)

aNobleDemon

Need to report to law enforcement for cybercrimes, not just local police. In the USA that would be the FBI's IC3 division.

Bhilton3936

Ever Lost your funds trying to invest/withdraw/send/receive crypto coins??send a DM for the IC3 DEPARTMENT to carry out an INVESTIGATION. For recovery of lost funds..

Hitchie_Rawtin

They're conflating websites running on the IC with the chain being shut down, they can be safely ignored.

kidhack

The IC has a Posse.

Hitchie_Rawtin

The IC has been an inevitability in this space since 2016 but 90% of this sub arrived after the ICO & after the airdrop sign-up so they're livid at the Dfinity team for SBF pumping the price before launch and dumping on their heads the day before BTC took a 40% nosedive, because they're special in the head like that.