ISP

randomFrenchDeadbeat

It doesnt work that way. GDPR basically says if you are using that data, you are responsible; you arent only if you have an ISP status, which you get by complying to rules you cant comply with using that system.

Objective_Digit

An ISP is not a protocol.

WeekendQuant

Except it isn't because every time it's been banned the network got stronger. It would take a universal ban from all humans at once to kill it. Every single person on the planet gets a vote. Bitcoin can and does run offline, so they can't just turn Bitcoin off with the ISP. There's no way to actually stop Bitcoin.

thecoat9

Don't rely on the senders address appearing to be legit unless you know your provider checks email message headers for spoofing (many don't) and flags emails in some way if there is evidence of spoofing. Spoofing email messages is fantastically easy, spoofing them in such a way that doesn't leave evidence of spoofing in the header information is much more difficult. Many ISP's don't check email headers looking for spoofing, but email service providers like gmail do. Gmail will still put the message in your inbox but flags it as suspicious warning you not to trust the source as being legit.

randomFrenchDeadbeat

I think it is shit, since the exit node owner is legally responsible for whatever is done with his node. It does not matter how much "blockchain VPN" claim they arent. They are, since they dont fullfill the conditions to be protected as an ISP operator. I fully believe there are 3 things very harmful with crypto/blockchain : rugpulls, privacy coins aka laundering machines (doesnt matter how much people go "muh freedom" to justify them, they ARE used as laundering machines) and those crappy VPNs.

wolfparking

Are you misinformed or did you misunderstand? Ethereum staking requires that you are able to process 1.2-1.3 GB download and ~0.9-1 GB upload per hour. Not per second. You need to be concerned about the monthly data caps your ISP has, but otherwise most highspeed plans will be fine.

PoisonWaffle3

Even if they were on a cable modem, as long as the modem is authenticated/allowed/provisioned on the ISPs network, they can generally be moved around pretty freely as long as they're on coax that connects back to the same ISP. It's pretty common for people to move, take their modem with them, hook it up at their new house, and not even think to call the ISP. As long as both houses are served by the same ISP, it usually just works. Source: I'm a DOCSIS/PON engineer for a large ISP. Anyway, people stealing power to mine crypto is a bullish sign!

Logical_Lemming

So the ISP activated some random modems without verifying where they were or who they belonged to? Don't think that would fly in the US.

gggt34

Hey mate thanks, so I did step 2 and didn't get any 8333 on listening. As for 4, that's how it shows in my router settings page. under "forwarding" I have "virtual servers" and "port trigering". I actually did the same in both but I think the "virtual server" is the relevant one. I thought it was just terminology difference. I have a static IP address and ISP shouldn't be blocking it. I believe it's something in the process because I couldn't open ANY port except 8080 which I believe is my router's.

Szabadsagharcos

Few ideas: You could be behind NAT at the ISP already. Check your public IP if it is actually yours (like ping it from outside and unplug the router, it should go down). You can use IPv6 only (there is a bigger need for nodes there too). Just edit the config file assuming you have IPv6 support at your ISP. You need to edit bitcoin.conf to allow more connections. Did you do this? maxconnections=300 maxoutconnections=10

smr_rst

99.99% are useless. But that is what you can do right now per your question and BTC wouldn't be my personal choice for that. In the future there is some other probably valid use cases aside of money - distributed computation where you buy processor time/memory from other people PC without middle man, distributed networks where you are kinda ISP in the new layer of the internet (does exactly same stuff as regular internet but harder to censor, easier to get in for indie dev). Also something generic like ETH that helps to trade some coins into the others has to exist too.

Yepnop

It is normally easy to pinpoint the exact problem of a closed port in a local network at home. First put the Bitcoin Core software running. Then... 1. Check [https://portchecker.co/](https://portchecker.co/) for port 8333. If visible, then it is working correctly. (you said it appears as closed, so we go to the next step). 2. On your Windows machine, check if the port is open with command: netstat -aon . Port 8333 should be on the listening state. 3. Instead of step 2, I find it easier if you have any other computer in your local network, to run a telnet command from that other computer. In your case: telnet [192.169.1.102](https://192.169.1.102) 8333 . If you cannot connect, then the Windows firewall is blocking. 4. Make sure you have the correct rule on your router. You are using "virtual servers", I have always used "port forwarding" instead, but I believe it should not make any difference. I all those points work correctly, then it is possible that your ISP is blocking the port. It happened to me once in my country.

HidenInTheDark1

Perhaps the ISP blocks your connection. Do you use SIM-based router

gggt34

It's an option, idk. I'm from israel, it's pretty bitcoin friendly I think. I tried that half a year ago and ended up calling my ISP provider to ask if it is being blocked, and they said it isn't. I'l try to look into running it over tor

Fear_Blind83

I have to run my node through the clearnet because my ISP uses CGNAT but I haven't had any issues. As a precaution though I also run a hardware DMZ/Firewall appliance before my node which filters all incoming connections.

Areshian

There are so many things to clarify here. So much of the military systems are symmetric key encryption, you can forget about them, they are not vulnerable. Same goes for 99% of encryption at rest systems. What is considered vulnerable is public key cryptography like RSA or ECDSA. This doesn’t mean someone can suddenly access my bank or hack my computer movie style. It means when you do a connection that is supposed to be safe, it really isn’t. Sure, someone could snoop while I’m connecting to my bank and hijack it. But this is not magic, it somehow needs to be able to do a MITM. This is trivial for my ISP, or if I connect through a public WiFi, but the key point is that it doesn’t automatically give access to the system. You, (which on a wild guess I’m going to assume are not my ISP), would struggle to set a MITM against my bank connection. With 2FA, successfully hijacking’s someone connection becomes even harder. And all these efforts would go away the moment those connections are migrated to QC resistant crypto. Will it be the biggest security headache for those of us that work on this? Sure, bigger than anything we’ve dealt before by an order of magnitude. But through rollback and updates, we can restore everything. Blockchain is not so lucky. First, you do not need to actively trying to use your wallet for someone to hack you. And you can’t “turn off” the system. Also, there is guaranteed reward. Break the private key, you get the money. Go through all the hops of hijacking my bank connection and a) only now you know how much I have, you wasted effort hijacking someone poor, b) I may not even do a transaction, just check my balance. And if I don’t, how do you hijack my 2FA answer, c) my bank may block a large enough transaction pending phone or in person validation, and d) even after all this, even after successfully doing the transaction, it may end up being rolled back. It is clear where the incentive is. And on top of all this, all those extra steps to set MITM drastically increase the chances for the attackers to be caught. So yes, it will be a shit event. But we (and I can include myself here) have been working on what to do if it happens. There will be a massive list of trust, but the system could be rebuilt. Blockchain? Not really. You could create new blockchains, but those caught on the event…

torofukatasu

It's called an ISP bro

Inaeipathy

>Your ISP will give the logs of your connection to law enforcement, which will then charge you, unless you can provide logs. Which you cant. List a case where they were charged (in the US and not some bullshit country like saudi arabia). >quotes from your own link: It's funny how you can read the entire article and still not see the lack of "you will be charged for being an accomplice to crime" just that "you might get harassed by the police thinking it was your traffic" I think that maybe it's because you need to knowingly participate to be considered an accomplice, just a thought. Anyways, you're wasting my time. Enjoy your delusions.

randomFrenchDeadbeat

>There is no scam to "take down" when you run a node, you can't reverse people's actions without time travel and you can't distinguish who is connecting. There are no logs to provide by the software, and even if there were, they would be useless. ​ And thats exactly my point. The only way you get a protected status is if you can distinguish who is connecting, by using logs. ​ By providing service, YOU are the ISP. YOU have to be in compliance with the law. Your ISP will give the logs of your connection to law enforcement, which will then charge you, unless you can provide logs. Which you cant. ​ >No, it doesn't, and claiming it does over and over isn't going to change reality. You can feel free to continue on living in this delusional world where service providers can be punished for people abusing their systems, it's not the world we live in. How can you are be so much in denial ? quotes from your own link: ​ >Can EFF promise that I won't get in trouble for running a Tor relay? No. All new technologies create legal uncertainties, and Tor is no exception. We cannot guarantee that you will never face any legal liability as a result of running a Tor relay. However, EFF believes so strongly that those running Tor relays shouldn't be liable for traffic that passes through the relay that we're running our own middle relay. ​ They believe they should not be made liable. Belief in front of the law is laughable. ​ >Does U.S. law provide any protections for the Tor network against civil lawsuits? Yes. A federal law, 47 U.S.C. § 230 (often called Section 230), provides legal immunity for online intermediaries **that host or republish speech.** Though there are important exceptions for certain criminal and intellectual property-based claims, Section 230’s immunity protects online services, such as the Tor network, against a range of laws that might otherwise be used to hold them legally responsible for what others say and do. Another federal law, 17 U.S.C. § 512(a), part of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, provides a legal safe harbor against copyright infringement claims based on material that is simply transmitted without modification, as a Tor relay does. Since you cant prove you are hosting or republishing speech, that immunity does not work. DMCA is a civil matter. You are facing criminal charges here. ​ >Exit Relays Exit relays raise special concerns because the traffic that exits from them can be traced back to the relay's IP address. While we believe that running an exit relay is legal, it is practically impossible to stop the use of an exit relay for illegal activity. That may attract the attention of private litigants or law enforcement. An exit relay may forward traffic that is considered unlawful, and that traffic may be attributed to the operator of a relay. Indeed, police have mistakenly attributed traffic from an exit relay as coming from the relay’s operator. If you are not willing to deal with that risk, a bridge or middle relay may be a better fit for you. These relays do not directly forward traffic to the Internet and so can't be easily mistaken for the origin of allegedly unlawful content. ​ If that does not make it clear enough, i dont know what will ... maybe this one ? >**Should I run an exit relay from my home?** **No, this is risky and not recommended.** If law enforcement becomes interested in traffic from your exit relay, it's possible that officers will mistakenly attribute that traffic as originating from your home. This could result in law enforcement raiding your home, seizing your computer, and suspecting you of criminal activity. For that reason, it's best not to run your exit relay in your home or using your home Internet connection. Given those risks, you should instead consider running your exit relay in a commercial facility that is supportive of Tor. Have a separate IP address for your exit relay, and don't route your own traffic through it. ​ who's fucking delusional I wonder.

Inaeipathy

>they take down said scams when notified; > >they provide logs. There is no scam to "take down" when you run a node, you can't reverse people's actions without time travel and you can't distinguish who is connecting. There are no logs to provide by the software, and even if there were, they would be useless. >This is essentially the same. You cant or wont give logs, hence you are not complying with the laws regarding ISP service, and are not protected by that status. Your ISP will hand over any logs they have to the authorities. You aren't going to be contacted demanding connection logs, they will just take them from your ISP. You clearly don't understand how any of this works. >Go read your the tor link you posted previously. It will tell you exactly what I am telling you. No, it doesn't, and claiming it does over and over isn't going to change reality. You can feel free to continue on living in this delusional world where service providers can be punished for people abusing their systems, it's not the world we live in.

randomFrenchDeadbeat

yes, you are an accomplice. the reason reddit is not is they do what laws ask of it: * they take down said scams when notified; * they provide logs. ​ >Node operators deliberately open their nodes to any Tor network participant, this is not the same as allowing a person in particular to use your node to break the law. This is essentially the same. You cant or wont give logs, hence you are not complying with the laws regarding ISP service, and are not protected by that status. Go read your the tor link you posted previously. It will tell you exactly what I am telling you. They have templates for civil actions. first, it does not mean you are going to win, second civil actions are the least of your worries.

HoodFruit

> VPNs improve your privacy, because it hides your IP from data trackers and it encrypts your data BUT you are not anonymous. > This is only partly correct. Advantages of using public VPNs from big companies are, that yes, you are hiding your actual IP from the sites and what you do from your ISP, but you are shifting the trust (and your entire internet traffic) to another entity, in this case a private company. Whether your ISP or whether that company is more trustworthy is up for discussion. Another advantage is, that you are not the only person using one VPN server. There are potentially hundreds of other users that also use the same server at the same time, so if something shady happened, it's much much harder to trace back who of those 100 users did it. That is, assuming that the VPN company can be trusted and doesn't keep logs. The "hide your IP from trackers" and what not is mostly marketing fluff and far from the only method that's used to track you (and is nowadays handled with adblockers, DNS-based blockers or things like Apples 'load trackers through iCloud' feature anyway)

Inaeipathy

>You are accomplice to that crime No, you aren't. Just like reddit is not an "accomplice to crime" when people run scams on their platform, and AWS is not an "accomplice to crime" when people run phishing pages on their servers. You are not facilitating the crime in any sense of the word, the person is abusing the service you provide. >you deliberately opened it to someone else Node operators deliberately open their nodes to any Tor network participant, this is not the same as allowing a person in particular to use your node to break the law. >you dont give his identity You don't have their identity, so, this point is invalid. Your ISP will tell you that they are giving over traffic logs if an abuse complaint is raised, which can be responded to with one of the templates below. [https://community.torproject.org/relay/community-resources/tor-abuse-templates/](https://community.torproject.org/relay/community-resources/tor-abuse-templates/)

moviemaker2

If you believe in electricity, why aren't you running your own power plant? If you believe in the internet, why aren't you running your own ISP? If you believe in modern medicine, why aren't you running your own clinic?

patstew

It's worse than "could end up the target of a subpoena", you would very literally be accepting money in return for passing on illegal porn for peados. You might be able to argue that you're actually just like an ISP. You might also end up in jail if the legal system thinks you're bullshitting and have a bunch of evidence of what 'you' downloaded. Why on earth would you take the risk?

TewMuch

It can run over tor now, so it won’t even be visible to your ISP. No one needs to know you are running it.

randomFrenchDeadbeat

> B2B is actually pretty risk free for most Noderunners. > > > >Public VPN is riskier, and I would not personally recommend for the reasons you mentioned in western countries. BUT people do, and **there are legal protections when registering if users wish to take the risk to earn.** No, there are none. Thats the whole issue. Worldwide, any ISP is protected against bearing the responsibility of his service being used for illegal activities IF he complies with government laws, namely identifying users and logging their activity. The node operator does not do that, so he does not have an ISP status, and is therefore at least accomplice of the illegal activity done.

randomFrenchDeadbeat

You are accomplice to that crime, which is always punished the same way.Thats your connection, you deliberately opened it to someone else, you dont give his identity, are not operating under the ISP status. Again, list those countries that dont have those laws.

randomFrenchDeadbeat

No, it does not. Every country has a similar regulation. You can only be protected by the ISP status, which requires following regulations that cant be followed when running an exit node. Name one that does not have this.

Inaeipathy

It's unlikely that would occur. Usually your ISP will just inform you that they are giving all their logs over to the authorities, any problems are usually solved by giving them one of the Tor exit node templates that are available at https://community.torproject.org/relay/community-resources/tor-abuse-templates/

AvatarOfMomus

>End-to end encryption stops packet sniffing, like Mysteirum and Helium both feature. 99.9% of all web traffic is encrypted.How is it riskier than using a CENTRALIZED server that can be subpoenaed at any time, where as a DECENTRALIZED, hard-wired no logs client solves all of this AND rewards the end user. Sooooo, this is only *sort of* right... nothing the VPN system itself does can prevent an end-node from sniffing outgoing traffic, because the VPN endpoint is where traffic *leaves* the VPN tunnel and is "unwrapped". At that point there's nothing the software provider can do to prevent sniffing because the traffic is out of their control. Like, you can literally put a modified splitter cable on the output of the server and capture everything the server sends without the server having any way to detect that this is happening. At that point you're relying on the encryption on the traffic going through the VPN, and while *really good* end to end encryption stops MITM attacks way too many things don't use *really good* end to end encryption. For example if a system requires a plaintext key exchange and then turns on the encryption, and someone sniffs that key exchange, it's possible (though not guaranteed) that they've just compromised your encryption, and at a minimum they've massively decreased the difficulty in cracking it later. Also just in general *way* less than 99.9% of web traffic is encrypted... I wish that wasn't true, but it is... The big difference here is we can pretty easily guarantee that a large company isn't storing traffic from any given end-user. Their entire business model relies on that not being the case, and it would take only one court case to reveal if this was occurring. > Consequences for the Node Host: ... Throttling is illegal in *some* places, and even then it's often down to what's in the contract. If your ISP contract says that the first 500gb of data is at the listed speed, and then anything past that is at a slower speed, then it's perfectly legal for them to throttle you per the terms of the contract. As for potential issues with running the server itself, some residential ISP contracts put limits on what you're allowed to do with the connection. These limits tend to be fairly broad, and it's unlikely you'd get sued, but if you were running a commercial hosting service (which a VPN would qualify as) then they could potentially terminate your service for breach of terms. Again, the potential issues here are going to vary somewhat by locale, since different countries and states have different laws regarding ISPs specifically or contract terms in general. > Bandwidth issues: I'm not saying it's *definitely* an issue, I'm saying it's a potential problem that I've *personally* run into with peer to peer networking before. It's a fundamental issue of available bandwidth vs desired bandwidth. If too many people start using a service like this but not enough people set up nodes, then you end up with a resource crunch. This is extremely unlikely to happen with a larger provider because of economies of scale and the sheer amount of bandwidth a datacenter scale connection can provide. Not FUD, just long experience with technology and knowing how these enterprise systems work and what can go wrong with them vs a peer to peer setup. None of what I've said is directed at any particular provider, and nothing except the security issue is going to be universal. Technically even the security issue is solvable, but the solution is to vet the hells out of people before letting them set up a node, which isn't economically feasible for a large distributed system.

gutturalCod29014

Tbh some of this information is outdated. Both Mysterium and Helium are already very sophisticated and have solved many of the issues you mention. **Security:** End-to end encryption stops packet sniffing, like Mysteirum and Helium both feature. 99.9% of all web traffic is encrypted. How is it riskier than using a CENTRALIZED server that can be subpoenaed at any time, where as a DECENTRALIZED, hard-wired no logs client solves all of this AND rewards the end user. **Consequences for the Node Host:** Yep, there is certainly risks involved in hosting a public VPN node. There are two main types of traffic you can select when noderunning these types of projects, B2B or Public VPN. B2B is actually pretty risk free for most Noderunners. Public VPN is riskier, and I would not personally recommend for the reasons you mentioned in western countries. BUT people do, and there are legal protections when registering if users wish to take the risk to earn. ISP throttling is actually illegal, if its against TOC thats a different question entirely. Could you share one provider that states you’re not allowed to run a MYST node or setup a Helium hotspot? **Bandwidth issues:** This is actually FUD TBH sorry, a study by North Western Univerisity demonstrates speed comparable in performance to mainstream VPNs from MysteriumVPN as long as 3 years ago. Much like inflated currencies and monopolies, centralized VPNs should not be trusted, especially when superior decentralized blockchain platforms exist. Just my 2cents! Thanks for your response.

telejoshi

I had the same problem. My ISP used IPv6 and I had to make them switch to IPv4 to use port forwarding. And so on. I almost gave up. The biggest problem was running my own Electrum Server to even use this node with my Electrum wallet.

AvatarOfMomus

I don't inherently think these sorts of things are a bad idea, but I think you're being over-zealous in declaring the death of large VPN providers. There are some serious potential downsides to this kind of decentralized VPN network that folks should be aware of before using one: **Security** This is the big one. Your connection is exiting on some random person's server which means there's nothing stopping them from sniffing your traffic as it leaves the VPN tunnel. This should still be fairly safe as long as your traffic is securely encrypted, but not everything is encrypted and there's still potential for Man In The Middle attacks here. I'm not saying it's guaranteed, and there are probably measures being taken by the applications, but it's still riskier than using a larger trusted party. **Consequences for the Node Host** The whole reason using a large VPN provider results in a host of "are you human" checks and the like is because VPNs get used for a lot of shady shit, and by the nature of a VPN there's no good way for the provider to prevent it without compromising the privacy of all users. If you're hosting a Node on your home connection and someone runs 200 WoW bot accounts through it then you could find your own account banned as a result and your home IP blacklisted. You could also just generally get detected as a VPN host and basically see your home internet connection treated like you're on a VPN at all times. Worst case you could end up the target of a subpoena if someone does something illegal and it gets traced back to your IP. Large VPN providers have lawyers to handle that stuff because it can get expensive fast for an individual. There's also, depending on the contract you signed with your ISP, the potential to end up with your bandwidth throttled if your ISP has a soft cap and someone downloads several hundred gigs of shows over your connection. They can swap to a different end-node on the VPN network, you're left with throttled speeds for the rest of the month. **Bandwidth Issues** Basically you don't have the same kind of speed guarantees with a service like this, so if you're using it to stream high quality video you may find the connection having issues, depending on where you're VPNing too, how many end Nodes are available, and how busy those Nodes are. ----------- Not trying to scare anyone here. There are definitely benefits to using something like this, but it's not entirely upside, especially if there's little to no vetting of prospective Node hosts.

Dry-Discipline7434

Cut off bank support, this alone can eliminate 90% of the value. When you run a bitcoin node, your IP is public and govs can subpoena ISP & VPN (if there is a law banning btc) to reveal who you are. This can effectively shutdown most of the network traffic. True, there may be some hardliners holding onto it, but what'll be the BTC market cap then?

thinkingperson

If the internet somehow gets turned off, there will be cascading effect on almost every aspect of life as many public and private institutions and services sit on the internet as its backbone infrastructure to varying degrees. But to begin with, can the internet get turned off? Not exactly. The very design of the internet is a widely distributed and redundant inter network infrastructure system that started life to keep communications going even after multiple nuclear warhead strikes in US. It is possible to cripple certain services if a widespread DDOS attack is executed on major continental fibre ISP gateways. This could cause the internet to become fragmented into geolocale segments that are temporarily isolated from each other. With CDNs, users may not notice the attacks until a while later when CDNs data replication start timing out. Depending on how companies design their backend infrastructure, different services may continue to function while others grind to a hault. Bitcoin blockchain will become segmented like how different countries like Russia and China were blocked previously. In this case, blockchain traffic is not so much blocked but btc transactions will only get validated by miners/nodes within the respective geolocation. Effectively, they may either not get confirmed or may end up forking the chain. The prob will hit everyone when the internet is back up and the chains try to sync up.

SirDanMur

Thanks for the update. I'm trying to research more on this. I know they just released a new device. If I find something definitive one way or the other I will share. I like my DPN, Ive always assumed anyone can see your traffic regardless, ISP, VPN networks etc. If you have an inside guy, anything is possible.

Umpire_State_Bldg

Even my phone has unlimited data for a low flat fee. Same with my ISP. Bandwidth is so cheap/plentiful it's no longer worth metering. Maybe you should look into switching providers.

WreckingSeth

Wow, didn't know that, I mean that's like solvable in literally 5 minutes we have specific laws about what mobile carriers and ISP can do, cannot do and have to do.

diarichan

I have been a victim of one in 2022, at first I didn't believe such a threat existed, that even if my browser data was stolen, as long I keep the seed on paper all is safe, wrong. A Russian person offered an airdrop in exchange for beta testing a game. I ran it, 700 megabyte size file and nothing happened. Next day I saw unauthorized transactions and the person showed me my computer activity and asked me for money, I refused, I was faster than the hacker but later he put a bot and my loss is around 2$ LINA (locked, he cannot touch it) and in 2023 the ARB airdrop 5k$. As countermeasure I changed ISP, router, use Linux but I still feel unsafe. I make a new wallet and immediately afterwards I receive scam tokens [I don't interact], these start when I make my first transaction, thus eventually I have to delete my CEX I use 5+ years email addresses I use 12 years... Regarding the malware: its filled with 0000 and if you remove with hex editor it is a small executable and running it sandboxed shows its stealing user/appdata/ stuff and desktop files.

I_got_a_yoyo

I’m very much in love with authoritarian control??? Huh? What’s wrong with you? This is just an extreme hypothetical so I can learn about Bitcoin .The internet is just a bunch of ISPs connected to each other. If a malevolent government forced their ISPs in their country to disconnect from other ISPs outside the country, then they could no longer provide world wide internet access. And in your scenario in Afghanistan, those people are still using ISPs. You can’t use the internet without an ISP. They are just leaving Afghanistan to get plugged in.

JackJackson-

Update: I'm half way there. My assumption is the electrum server connection. And yes, I have a problem to connect to the server because of the proxy. Here are the mess. I use connect my android phone with the ISP to hotspot the internet and it require proxy. I enter proxy manually on all of my machine. That's why I can use the internet. Now, I have no idea how to config the proxy with sparrow. I done it in setting but still not connection. Is there anyway to void the proxy or the network setting specifically for Sparrow?

igadjeed

This I'm guessing the problem is that the ISP-supplied router has only one LAN ethernet port

igadjeed

Buy a LAN router which has multiple ethernet ports. Plug it into your ISP router. Plug the Pi into the LAN router Or use Wifi

clue5tick

Your ISP would provide the router, but how are you supposed to connect, is it WiFi only?

Jaya_NYM

>Is the NYM token itself a privacy coin, or is it a standard PoS token that is used to secure a blockchain that underlies various privacy services? Like, if I transact NYM, are my transactions automatically private like Monero? If I transact NYM while also running NymConnect, does that make my transactions private from the perspective of the blockchain, or only private from the perspective of my ISP? \- NYM is not a privacy coin, no. It is a utility token for a general purpose privacy system that protects any internet traffic in transit. \- NYM transactions are currently primarily for staking and bonding Nym nodes and are not private. \- NYM tokens will however be redeemable for zk-nym credentials when used for paying for NymConnect/ NymVPN. This will be private - using the anonymous offline ecash scheme developed by Alfredo and Ania: [https://arxiv.org/abs/2303.08221](https://arxiv.org/abs/2303.08221) \- If you transact NYM tokens while running NymConnect this does not make those transactions private as the Nyx blockchain smart contracts are public. So if you run NYM transactions via NymConnect, these could protect it in transit from the ISP yes, but not once it hits the chain. \- In short: NYM tokens are not privacy coins for general purpose payments. They are utility tokens for the mixnet reward and reputation system, which is public (see: [https://blog.nymtech.net/privacy-for-end-users-transparency-for-the-infrastructure-c1770cdc6c61](https://blog.nymtech.net/privacy-for-end-users-transparency-for-the-infrastructure-c1770cdc6c61) ). For private transactions, use Monero or zcash over the Nym mixnet, stay tuned for broader adoption of zk-nyms for payments or just use good ol' cash! :)

pseudoHappyHippy

I think they are referring to privacy with respect to your ISP knowing you did anything with Monero at your IP, not anonymity with respect to the blockchain like Monero already provides.

pseudoHappyHippy

I have a few questions. Answer whichever ones you like. 1. Is the advantage of using Nym for browsing privacy over a VPN that with a VPN I must trust the VPN itself to not hand over my data, whereas Nym is trustless in that there exists no entity that would know my browsing data? If so, what is the advantage of Nym over Tor? 2. What is "privacy-preserving KYC"? Is this not an oxymoron? If some entity requires KYC from me, how can they "know their customer" while my privacy is also preserved? I'm not sure I understand how they could be satisfied that they know me while I could be satisfied that they don't. 3. Is the NYM token itself a privacy coin, or is it a standard PoS token that is used to secure a blockchain that underlies various privacy services? Like, if I transact NYM, are my transactions automatically private like Monero? If I transact NYM while also running NymConnect, does that make my transactions private from the perspective of the blockchain, or only private from the perspective of my ISP? Thanks!

Padankadank

This isn't meant to dox, I won't link your username so you can delete your comment if you feel uncomfortable but this is why you don't post how much you have. People can really narrow down info from your account and find you. I'll happily delete if you like. But.... Your name is MJ You work in IT You pay rent to live in a 6 unit building near Elmwood village Your ISP is spectrum Your property manager is Sinatra

Junior_Client3022

The reason there is no more p2p file sharing bc under the trump admin they set up a backdoor with you ISP(can't remember the name of the law now) that knows when you are doing it. I remember the FBI sending letters out like crazy. My sister had her comp stolen by them from massive amounts of downloaded porn. https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/24783/how-effectively-can-isps-detect-illegal-file-sharing

Junior_Client3022

The reason there is no more p2p file sharing bc under the trump admin they set up a backdoor with you ISP that knows when you are doing it. I remember the FBI sending letters out like crazy. My sister had her comp stolen by them from massive amounts of downloaded porn.

RayesFrost

Even if the restrict by ISP. There’s always VPNs to circumvent it.

nerd2ninja

In order for you to be blacklisted for running a node, the following would have to be true. 1. You configured your node to be publicly accessible (which in addition to adding a line to your .conf file would involved exposing (by default) port 8333 2. The website ran a port scan against your computer after you visited it (which is computationally expensive and not normal) Your ISP on the other hand knows all of your traffic at all times (unless you use VPN then the VPN provider knows or Tor/I2P in which case the ISP only knows you run Tor or I2P)

Mrb1d

Thank you for these details, however I do not understand the part related to radio transmissions. So how can you (globally) connect in case of ISP issues? My current view on the different connection types: 1. ISPs using land lines/any types of cables 2. ISPs offering (backup) connections via mobile phone networks, e.g. via LTE 3. satellite based network connections such as starlink My assumption is that when something fails (see the war in Ukraine) at least the satellite connection can still work, however when all three options are globally impacted we should have other and bigger issues beside the node connectivity..,

tropserC

Well done for staying alert. It looks / sounds quite familiar. I cannot place it now, but there is a mechanism for them to trigger an authentic but generic email to a targeted account holder. For the life of me I can't recall where it was discussed and which company or companies. The ruse being exactly what you experienced, them on the phone with you and saying watch I will send you a real email or text from my company. Usually that was enough. FFS I can't remember if it was crypto or an ISP or banking or something. The discussion was that the company was at fault and didn't think it was a problem or their problem that someone could do that. It's somewhere out there.

clue5tick

Hmmm. No luck here. Unresponsive link, MacBook over cable ISP. It downloaded partially last night and earlier today. Partial downloads, as before. Desktop, Tor browser, and regular Firefox, over Starlink.

conceiv3d-in-lib3rty

Cake Wallet is the most popular choice and will suffice for most situations. It obviously depends on your threat model though. Using your own node with Monero GUI wallet though Tor is the safest option. Without using a VPN/Tor, ect, your ISP can determine you are a Monero user, but that’s it.

grapthor

>All you need is a computer, an Internet connection, and half a terabyte of storage Also electricity for those things. Also my data cap on Comcast is a terabyte. CenturyLink in the area has 600GB on DSL. Cellular it's as low as 2GB. This is a bigger barrier to entry than some people realize. This is also so blind in talking past people. People who buy gold aren't going to buy Bitcoin because they think that a lot of the infrastructure that Bitcoin depends on (the power grid, the Internet, and a stable and secure home base) may not be around when they have to start bartering their gold. A lot of these people think there's going to be massive upheaval that will lead to government control of information and communications channels. They think there will be a massive breakdown of society and people will turn to looting to survive. They think that some kind of cataclysm will happen that will render electronics useless. Telling them that they should place their stored wealth in something that requires a computer, a healthy Internet connection, a cell phone, plus a reliable electricity source to operate and change these devices just looks more fragile to them because if you eliminate any one leg of this stool the whole thing collapses. These guys think if the dollar collapses their ISP will be taken over by jackbooted thugs, they aren't going to trust that.

tchuckss

This is so asinine. Might as well arrest the company that made the computer. Or the ISP for allowing it to be connected to the internet. Shit, the driver who delivered the final product, and the drivers who delivered the part. The little African kid who dug the earth with their bare hands for the materials. Arrest everyone. This is such a joke.

cr0n_dist0rti0n

You give Binance too much credit. Why you would defend a CEX on a sub dedicated to cryptographic decentralization is beyond me. Further you seem to not understand the core thesis behind blockchain. The internet didn’t stop because some dumb ass ISP collapsed. Neither will blockchain. DEX is the future anyway.

Solid-Context-7623

Shouldn't law enforcement just continue the investigation on their own? I hope I am not just naive, but I am a bit surprised that they made the Binance info available to you and that it seems to be in your hands how to proceed this criminal investigation. I mean, if I were law enforcement and presented with a case like that I'd ask Binance to provide all available logs regarding the accesses that lead to the illegal trading of your funds. In case something is missing (for example, which API key was used, which IP used it, exact time stamp) I would just get back to Binance and follow up until they provide that information or can explain why they can't provide it. Best case is that indeed there are logs that give a lead to e.g., an ISP of your envious but careless co-worker who committed the crime on their personal system and can be prosecuted accordingly.

EffUtube

They dont have to ban it. They just penetlize everything and everyone that touches it. Penelty being different for all of us. And lets be honest here, we love privacy and ability to control our own wealth. It takes the goverment 5 minutes to find you via phone operator or your ISP, so how much in control and private are you?

MichaelAischmann

They'd have a much easier time to track people using centralized ISP & telecommunication services. Decentralized networks would make that harder I believe.

smellsmira

What happens when the Government seizes your bank account until you turn in BTC because they see you’ve transferred money in the past to a crypto exchange. Remember, capital gains is a thing on BTC. It’s considered an asset class. ISP and Cell providers could also cut you off. There is a dozen ways to Sunday that you could be screwed.

smellsmira

Oh yeah? Tell me how much a F-150 is in BTC without using USD value in the conversion. There is no price currently because even BTC is denominated against fiat. If the US govt says it’s illegal 99% of people will stop there. US govt confiscated and made it illegal to own gold from 1933-1970. There were a few workarounds like rare coins, art and dentistry, but overall the gold market came to a grinding halt. You had roughly 2/5 of people comply and turn it in. The other 3/5 refused and hid their gold. The difference here is that it’s more difficult to confiscate gold than BTC because there are a lot of avenues to prevent BTC usage. ISP providers, Exchange shutdowns, bank transaction blocking or account seizure/garnish alone would stop 99% of people.

smexsa

I've registered on other sites as well, but I only received scam emails from Coinbase, so I doubt it's the ISP.

shockmaster87

I see this as a big disadvantage if you have no internet. This also doesn’t address the service is only as good as your ISP or power company. I can provide my own power but the same can’t be said for the ISP.

shockmaster87

You also have to trust your ISP

MANDATORY_DEPRESSION

People are focusing way too much on the small scale applications first. [This](https://i.extremetech.com/imagery/content-types/05ivmIpqIgfgXmjGUVWsAq6/hero-image.fill.size_994x559.v1678673193.jpg) was the first transistor. Small scale applications will just take time to implement. Most of the end user experience with modern electronics involves wires (though that's becoming less true). So that starts to seem like the most important aspect of electronics. The vast majority of system communications occur through conductors that are baked into the layered PCBs. Even [tubular copper/aluminum conductors](https://www.luvata.com/products/hollow-conductors) aren't uncommon. Most of the benefit of a superconductor would begin top-down, starting with what saves the most energy (or maybe what allows our battleships to pewpew). It would gradually replace the grid starting from the supply, and may not ever actually need to reach the home. Kind of like how an ISP will sell you "fiber" internet, yet they're still feeding coax to your house. It's because they use fiber all the way up to your local switch, which then does the last leg via whatever's suitable from there. Or consider patch cables (ex. ethernet). They're meant for the last leg, where the user is likely to need to move or adjust it, so really just that portion of the wire needs to be made with materials that can endure the stress. They'll usually come with larger strain reliefs for instance. With electric power, all the convenience is in the "last mile". But starting from there and following back to the source, conductors will need to carry more and more current, therefor becomes thicker, therefore more rigid, and before long not only are wires not necessary, but not really even ideal. You have have even seen electricians install bar conductors like [this](https://www.aflglobal.com/en/Products/Conductor-Accessories/Substation-Accessories/Bus-Conductors/Aluminum-Rectangular-Bar). Moving on to the greatest obstacle.. that's being a superconductor to begin with. From what it looks like to me, the current process is producing a material with unreliable, or uneven distribution. Or perhaps it's when the copper atoms are aligning just right. We dunno. But I find it highly promising that we did it by accident, because that means that there's a strong chance that the margin for improvement is wide. Right now this is the greatest obstacle because the material is so current limited. They need to figure out *why* it's superconductive. Once they figure that out, they need to figure out how to purify the product so that (hopefully) all of it becomes super conductive, which is sure to improve its current capacity. So to put that simply - the greatest obstacles are going to lie in getting the performance of the material to practical levels. If we want to move ahead of that with the assumption that it's already been made into the ideal material, next biggest obstacle imo is scaling it down. I'd far rather the material have practical applications for solid state computing devices over just being convenient to run. If we'll stretch pipelines across out country to pump energy that makes problems worse, I have faith we'd do the same for a solid conductor that carried more energy and *solved* problems, instead. ​ Either way, I'm extremely optimistic that there's enough clues about superconductivity with LK-99, that it will lead to the real RTSC.

KateR_H0l1day

Yes I agree, it’s is the base, however stopping for a minute/hour/day doesn’t mean anything is lost, it’s just a delay. A day’s delay is still faster than sending money for example on a blockchain than if I’d used a bank at the same time. In Solana’s case, it’s delays are not that many and not that long in reality but because it’s not as reliable in uptime as (insert your blockchain) then it’s perceived as an issue. I understand the mentality of it and would prefer 100% uptime but it’s not critical. Yet in comparison with an ISP provider, I’d view uptime as critical in selection. Just IMO of course 😊

KateR_H0l1day

Why is uptime that important, it not an internet/ISP provider? Yes I do believe uptime is important but not critical, I think people actually make it more important than it is, just IMO of course. Having said that, they certainly appear to be making uptime more reliable. I think it was FTX collapse that crater the price even though the chain itself didn’t really change, it was a crash through perceived link to FTX. It’s certainly making a price comeback from that low point, while simultaneously improving the overall quality. It’s still very fast but I’m not sure it’s better than many other competitors out there. Mostly hype and dreamers of it reaching its ATH again

_Stealthy

Or whatever is chump change for you or the website minimum? It's hard evidence. Every one of us knows it's not the coinex website and obviously unrelated. Looking at whois/dns shows its an entirely different ISP and completely different setup from their own environment.

Mrb1d

Just some thoughts: -Are the S19 locally reachable during the event? (Going offline from an internet perspective or going offline even on the LAN?) -boost your logging, add some more monitoring, such as netflow, sflow, additional system and interface logs from some S19 and the core/internet routers - try a complete different internet connection, e.g LTE or starlink on just one building and check if it still happens at the same time, so you do not need to check for potentiell ISP issues again - finally exclude one S19 from the automatic reboot and get a (cyber security) forensic guy checking the memdump of the still offline S19

SingleAstronomer888

Any fellow large scale miners wanna talk shop? I have a weird issue with thousands of S19’s going offline at once in two separate buildings at the exact same time once every couple months. The buildings receive power from the same utility provider, but are on separate substations. Their engineers don’t see any issues in their logs. The buildings are also on separate ISP’s, though I wouldn’t be surprised if the local ISP we use at one building is piggybacking off of Comcast, which we use at the other building. We’ve switched ISP’s a couple times and each one has a separate fiber line coming into each building, so it really doesn’t make sense.

BigJimBeef

Monero wont stop an ISP tracking your data.

clue5tick

*How can I prevent my ISP tracking my bitcoin wallet?* Run a node. Put your wallet behind it.

Disastrous-Dinner966

The only problem with using Tor is that the ISP (and the authorities) know you're using Tor. They don't know what you're using it for, but I know that law enforcement just assumes you're up to something illegal. So Tor use can sometimes attract attention you never would have attracted. So don't do anything illegal with Tor!

399ddf95

You could use Tor. On the other hand, everything on the blockchain and in the mempool is public information available to the entire world and potentially stored in a giant distributed database of transactions that will be readable for decades at least. It's super unlikely that your ISP or your VPN provider give a shit about whatever it is you're doing with your BTC.

middlemangv

Dude I showed my dad how to use Netflix and he started buying shows that ISP provides on their platform. My bill this month came +20euros. I was furious. When I asked him why didn't he use Netflix he forgot about it ever being a thing.

all-bidness33

"Never say never." Running my own node is going to take time, gaining knowledge, the hardware needed, and including probably finding a different ISP. In the mean time I want to keep stacking sats, so I wanted to learn the most secure way to do that as I set up outside the Ledger environment.

ElderBlade

No not really. Just requires a small computer like a raspberry pi or old laptop. The only thing to consider is how much data you're able to download/upload on your ISP plan per month. I think the typical download is 20 GB/month and 200 up on a high speed connection. You can set limits and even just run it for a few hours a day instead of 24/7 More info here: https://bitcoin.org/en/full-node

Genoism

>Top No but the government is actively trying to kill it right now. Why do you think its a slaughterhouse right now? SEC is steamrolling over everything, both the good and the bad. What the govenment can't control is a problem. They will eventually outlaw it entirely or integrate it into their ecosystem such that there is virtually no difference between their coin and any other coin. Any other coins that fail to comply will be blacklisted, made illegal and/or have ISP's entirely block access. Anyone found circumventing this will be thrown in prison like any other money laundering crime.

SingleAstronomer888

High storage is not a major issue. $50 worth of hard drive or SSD space is insignificant in most people’s $1000+ laptop or PC build with multiple terabytes in them. Even external drives are OK. 24/7 connection is not necessary and there’s no punishment for coming and going as you please, so running in the background while the computer is on is OK if you plan on shutting down your PC every night like I do. You do NOT need to port forward to make connections. Someone else needs to post forward their node which allows you to connect to them and download the blockchain. If you don’t want people connecting to you and taking up multiple gigabytes of your upload bandwidth, then don’t port forward. Even without port forwarding you’ll still be sharing blocks with the nodes you directly connected to, but only a few MB here and there, so this will save your bandwidth if you have ISP limits.

EggplantsLover

I still feel it's quite complicated to use the Lightning Network unless you rely on centralized providers. I couldn't run a node on my phone because my ISP has a data cap and limited bandwidth, and I also don't like the additional battery usage. There are ways around running a Lightning node, but they all require connecting to other centralized nodes. It can get pretty complicated the more self-custodial you go. The info below is to the best of my knowledge. ####**Custodial wallets** Many Lightning wallets like Strike are custodial and completely centralized. You don't get any keys. You don't have to manage your channels, routing, or liquidity. Blue Wallet is also custodial, though you can choose your own Lightning node through LndHub. ####**Semi-Self-Custody Wallets** Some other Lighting wallets that claim to be "self-custody" like Muun are not fully self-custody. You don't do any channel management. Muun accounts are zero-confirmation 2-of-2 multisig accounts that use **Turbo Channels and Submarine Swaps**. You own one key, and they own the other key. You can't make a transaction with their half of the multisig key. (Muun has an emergency kit process to recover their half of the key, but you need to use a complicated script.) When you create an account on the wallet, it's instant because it doesn't open a real Lightning channel within inbound liquidity. Otherwise, it would cost Muun a lot of money to be subsidizing Lightning channel creations. **Turbo Channels** (aka Zero-conf channels) are virtual channels that can send and receive virtual transactions. They aren't real until the channel is created at a later step. During the initial channel creation, the wallet provider can double-spend your wallet, so there is a little trust involved. Muun charges a higher fee to settle the cost of creating the channel. These wallets also use **submarine swaps**, which is a method to provide the initial liquidity to the channel by going through a swap provider. The swap prvider generates an on-chain address that can be used to fund the Lightning channel. ####**Self-Custody wallets** Phoenix wallet, on the other hand, is a real self-custody wallet. Phoenix charges 3000 sats (currently ~$1) and 1% for channel creation. And if you exceed liquidity, Phoenix automatically opens new channels on the fly, costing you even more. I've heard of Breez and BitKit, but I didn't want to test them since they're both beta on Android and require you to use a testing version. Breez is also pricey but a little cheaper than Phoenix for channel creation. **Trampoline Payments** Phoenix uses trampoline payments to reduce bandwidth and battery usage so it's possible to run on a phone. Trampoline Payments are a routing mechanism where your node only connects to certain close nodes and larger "trampoline" nodes. These nodes are more centralized and bigger, so you can interact with much fewer nodes on the Lightning network. **Routing Hints** Phoenix uses something similar to Submarine Swaps called **routing hints** to create receiving invoices even before the channel is created. The invoice contains routing hints on how to get to the account before channel creation. Once you receive your first payment, the channel is created and fees are deducted. During initial wallet creation, your funds are not self-custody and rely on a third party company, Acinq. But afterwards, it's custodial (until the next time Phoenix opens a new channel for you).

foxy-agent

This would be a scary thing if it happened to any of us. We are all, to some degree, at the mercy of corporations (and governments) for services and privileges. Our email and communications, our social media, our money, and our access to services are all freedoms we enjoy until we aren't allowed to any more. Imagine if your electric company told you they were cancelling your electricity, or your ISP or cell phone provider said they were cancelling your internet or phone service? Until we have a non-corrupt money system we will never be free of this kind of tyranny.

Giga79

I fail to see how those replies relate to what I said, >Stablecoins are like paying a counterfeiter > >If crypto benefits those who bought it, they will be parasites just like shortsellers and leave is wondering what could have been I they used their minds for niceness instead of evil. The people who made money from crypto or shortselling may be smart, but that's another tragedy. They could have done something useful instead. Another example of intrinsic value in crypto. I was able to send money to Ukraine's aid weeks or months before the UN was able to themself, because I did not have to deal with middlemen or red tape. Every $1 I sent they received $1. The soldiers who used my money for body armour before any of their peers had armour absolutely do not think crypto is negative sum. Where is the negative sum in this trade? If crypto did absolutely nothing, all it was were numbers on a screen, a pure market, it would be zero sum. The fact it does things makes it positive sum. When you pay your ISP bill are you in a negative sum agreement? What's so different between your ISP bill and you paying for the blockspace you consume? If I speculate on your ISP stock and it 10x in price does this negatively affect you, the consumer of internet?

honestlyimeanreally

Your ISP can still see you talking to mining pools or similar, but at least they won’t know your address or holdings.

fllthdcrb

WTF? *All* of them throughout the world, all at once? What are the chances of something like that ever happening? Even if, hypothetically, there's some conspiracy to take down Bitcoin by murdering all operators, it's hard to believe they could get them all, much less simultaneously. It's just not a realistic scenario, IMO. (That said, if word got out, it would probably send a clear message to anyone thinking of running a node. But then, we'd have much more serious things to worry about than just having a non-fiat currency.) > Does Bitcoin start looking for new applicants? What do you mean, "applicants"? There's no one who has authority to decide who gets to run a node. Remember, it's **decentralized** and **permissionless**. Anyone can download and install a node, and start running it immediately. The only possible obstacles would be hardware so poor it can't run it, an Internet connection that can't support it (either because it's absolute garbage or because the ISP did something to block it), and getting in some sort trouble with the government (because it's illegal, for example, as [it apparently is in a few countries](https://coin.dance/poli/legality)).

Giga79

Also 1Gbit/s download **and upload** speeds.. I've never heard of an ISP who offers this to retail.

Genoism

They could if they get friendly enough with china and russia ever again. All you have to do is just get all ISP's to block anything crypto related and its gg.

Boring_Ad4003

The internet is not centralised, but the access to the internet is. The ISP can block any website they want for a normal usage, without VPN. They get the request and can block it or not. Even with VPN, the traffic goes to the same centralised ISP. If they want to ban vpn acces they can. But they would block all VPN access, and there are legitimate reasons to use VPN for businesses, they don't want to make them a angry. The goal of blocking a site is make it difficult for people to access it. If you really really want to, you'll find a way. They just hope most people won't want to go through the extra steps to do it They can't enforce a total ban, but they can make it difficult for people to get to it.

BetterThanDragonFeet

Yes. But now that https is so widespread the only real thing your ISP sees is what IP addresses you are talking to and how often, which, depending on the site could be fairly private information in itself.

harveytent

Even the little banks are too big to fail. They have all been bailed out. No one has lost any money. People here just want collapse because Bitcoin will be worth more but if you want that then invest in gold. In the face of collapse I don’t think people are going to want to trust the internet vs trusting physical gold, you don’t trust the banks but you trust the ISP’s to provide you the internet needed to use Bitcoin? Imo Bitcoin adoption has to happen slowly, if it happens fast that’s global financial collapse and you can be happy you’re Bitcoin is worth a million dollars while you can’t find a can of spam to eat let alone get internet access and without banks unless local sellers accept Bitcoin then your Bitcoin are worth nothing. Currently you need banks to use Bitcoin ffs, then collapsing is bad news and people being forced into Bitcoin instead of choosing too is bad for Bitcoin.

ineedmoney2023

I missed a couple of weeks moving house and getting boned around by my ISP. Low output for me this round, but I ain't never gonna stop. I want the Moons. Give me the Moons!

DekiEE

Facial recognition, tracking of ISP data and drone surveillance is happening already at big events like football games or concerts.

Herosinahalfshell12

Ah. Well i was talking just about that article. To the extent their ISP just started accepting payments. My reaction was to things that get posted as fud or hopium. This isp may well end up never getting a single payment in crypto. Maybe one but the sounds of OP. It's unlikely to be big news Of course it's adopted elsewhere. So maybe there's been miscommunication although rather enjoyable. Unless you can't get that concept in your tiny little mind

Herosinahalfshell12

The article posted is saying the ISP just started accepting it. So in your example because one person somewhere has used it for payment somehow takes away from my observation that doesn't mean it's going to be used? It doesn't. A textbook strawman argument.

bijon1234

The ISP likely uses a third party to process the crypto-transaction and immediately convert it into fiat. As such, it actually creates selling pressure on Bitcoin.

Harucifer

Price for ISP Service: $50.00 Bitcoin ~~transfer fee~~ tax: $5

Qptimised

I'm not giving my precious BTC to my ISP. 😂