ISP

HSuke

IP addresses can be public or [NAT'ed](https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_address_translation). An ISP is not allowed to block all traffic to specific IPs since that's highly unethical and almost certainly illegal aside from preventing security attacks (e.g. DoS attacks). Applications often block incoming IP addresses on their own firewalls, but that's on the server or client side, not on the public ISP side. The government could demand to block off a whole country's IP addresses. Though this rarely happens in the US. Instead, the US government often takes over web domains by requesting that the domain services provider hand over the domain. And it has to be done through a court order. Technically, it is possible to block off a whole country's IP addresses. It's just that none of the 1st world countries ever do this.

RyeonToast

The IP addresses are public, are they not? Your computer needs to find out which machines to send data to. An ISP could block all traffic to and from those IPs.

bleudefact

WAG here: Someone must have known that this was a wide-open Coinbase account. If the account had any simple 2FA or even if it had "Allow Addresses list" they could not have withdrawn the funds. I would go back and review all recent communications with: Coinbase, ISP, any other contractor...computer IT person....... And I understand the following comment does not help now, but if 500K was a lot of money to your uncle, then it makes no sense to keep it on a CEX (even secure Coinbase), not having 2FA and "Allowed Withdrawal Addresses" . All you can do now is learn from this bad experience and improve account security in the future.

One_Boot_5662

I think there are two ways to look at this question, technical and social. Technically there are always ways around a ban. For example nodes can communicate via Tor servers, and users can setup their own Tor relays. At this point even an ISP will struggle to untangle the secure communications from regular connections to secure webpages like banks. Node operators could also setup private shared VPN relays. I think it's pretty difficult to prevent cypherpunks from running a blockchain, especially if they are dispersed globally. Socially however, most people will follow a ban. If enough governments simply make using a blockchain illegal then it will pretty much kill blockchain usage, except for a few fringe users. In either case PoW is at much higher threat than protocols based on PoS. PoW typically uses large physical resources and these are easily detected and shutdown, and aren't easy to move. PoS can run on a server with other standard applications, it can be mirrored in multiple geographies at once, it can be moved around onto different physical infrastructure almost instantly with no loss of security.

HSuke

Think about how ISPs would block requests. All they see is traffic flowing from IPs addresses to each other from various ports. Mining and staking don't use special ports. They can go over any port. All traffic is already encrypted from end to end, so there's no easy for ISPs to tell which traffic is specific to mining and staking. (The only way for ISPs to do that is if the local client is using the ISP as a web proxy, which makes no sense since no one does that.) So at least for mining, staking, and peering, it's impossible for a government to block traffic. They can only block it in other ways like via front-end website. Even if the US and Russia were to go to war in mining, they would also have no way to block each other even if they blocked the other country's IP address. It's very easy to have thousands of nodes send all their encrypted data to a single node within the same country, and tunnel that via a single VPN to a different country before it's broadcasted to the network.

Big-Finding2976

Sucks if you used an email provider that's stopped operating since then, or it was an ISP-supplied address and you've changed ISP!

ivanjurman

Yes, it doesn’t mean the internet is down, I didn’t even say that, and its not just my ISP that has issues, people globally have zhe same issue, maybe you don’t, but a lot of people do

SmoothGoing

Yes what? Internet is not down. Your ISP may have issues and some individual services might not work for you or others. It doesn't mean the Internet is down.

reality_comes

True I guess. But your ISP could go down or all windows devices or all Apple devices or Samsung devices or a mixture of all of those things.

reality_comes

For all of those who are saying, "bitcoin is still up" as if that proves anything, it doesn't. It's a meaningless statement. If the device you interact with the blockchain on goes down, bitcoin is down for you. Whether that's a crowdstrike update or someone cuts the fiber between your house and the ISP your bitcoin isn't "up" anymore.

ClockStrange7426

How are folks going to be paying for electricity to mine, ISP's for internet service, cell carriers for phone service etc when, as you put it, the other money collapsed? Crypto exists as a discretionary spend category of fiat currency. If fiat currency collapses, no one can afford crypto any more because no one can afford to service the tech that crypto needs to exist.

VariousTransition795

Unsure to follow your train of thought. Where do you see "centralization of hardware" or "centralization of infrastructure"? I'm curious because you sound like if we were all using the same ISP.

maha420

America Online. An old, crappy dial-up ISP that tried to act like they were "the internet" much like people try to make bitcoin out to be the only "digital currency" and there's no other options. AOL was also slow and cumbersome, and eventually couldn't compete with faster broadband (Cable/DSL) connections. Most people at the time didn't even realize you could connect to the internet without AOL, so you'd have lots of people with cable internet connections wondering why their AOL didn't work anymore. They had never tried to use Internet Explorer (or netscape navigator at the time) outside of AOL.

Flowerburp

Because I’m afraid it may expose me to cyber and physical security risks, and because I’m afraid my ISP will block my connection for some reason.

GGAllinzGhost

""Sure, but ISP's don't control the internet outside of their jurisdiction"" Are you under the impression that I was suggesting there could be a conspiracy of ISP CEO's to shut down bitcoin in each of their personal jurisdictions? I never said that. ""But all they're doing is banning themselves from the protocol, not harming the protocol itself."" Are you under the impression that I said they would try to 'harm' the protocol? I never said that. Is there any chance of your actually answering the point I was making, instead of making up strawmen to attack?-

MittenSplits

Sure, but ISP's don't control the internet outside of their jurisdiction. Politicians can hobble their citizens in acquiring Bitcoin. But all they're doing is banning themselves from the protocol, not harming the protocol itself.

GGAllinzGhost

They can just shut it down at the ISP level. Not allow the traffic through.

only_merit

> What you decribed is basically local government with extra steps and less free. I distinguish strictly between the state (with government), however small, and group of free individuals (a company). In the former, the state has a monopoly on violence on the given territory and membership is not a choice. > In your case you say the companies would have 10,000 shareholders? How can you ensure that the companies would have that many? You can't. There is no problem. A company can have as many shareholders as it wants. 1 or 10 or 100 or 1,000,000. There is no problem in either situation. > Secondly you say that in a government people don't participate willingly. Yes, that's one of its basic characteristics. If people would participate willingly, it would not be needed. > Well in the road example if the payment for the roads was only taken from the road users through tax or subscription to use the roads than only willing participants would be paying for it. It would be similar concept in theory, but in the real world this never happens. > The difference being because its pubically owned everyone would get the benifit of the roads and not just the people who had the capital to set it up in the first place, then rent seek for the rest of the roads existance. It's nowhere near rent seeking. First you need a land. That is a capital. Any use of capital has an opportunity cost for using it for something else. Then building a road is non-trivial cost. Then operational costs, maintenance. Further, if the road was not maintained well, or the fee would be higher than the quality of the provided service in the eyes of consumers, people would use different roads (as they did before A and B were connected with this new road). So if there is any city C with connections to A and B and the cost of fees from A to C plus fees from C to B is a lot lower than fees on the new road from A to B, few clients will use the new road. This is legitimate business, not rent seeking. > I can see how you imagine this private road ownership works but in reality its not going to function in the way you believe it to and will in all probability end up being a complete shambles and a poor experiance for road users. Are there any examples in history when this has worked? There are private cities already around the world. There are many private roads in all countries I've been to. And guess what, the state imposed highway code does not apply on those roads. Nor does police help you resolving a car crash on those roads. A road does not need to be 100 km long to somehow count. Just randomly claiming that it won't work is not an acceptable argument, especially given that many private roads exists around the world. > Also saying the the cities could be run by a city management company is just such a terrible proposal its funny. And yet there are projects like this popping around the globe. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pr%C3%B3spera "The project is managed by Honduras Próspera Inc. The company is financed by several investors and venture capital firms, including Balaji Srinivasan, Peter Thiel, and Marc Andreessen, through the venture capital company Pronomos Capital." I know it may sound weird to you since you are likely operating your whole life under statist doctrine, but there are books you can read if you were interested. > I'll just politely say that these companies are some of the worst to exist as they overcharge for everything because the tenants have no choice and lead to terrible outcomes for everyone involved except the mangement company. This is for sure true for many establishments and false for many others. The problem starts with the statist doctrine where the people rely on state to take care about everything. Hence people are not responsible and do not read contracts, do not know how to negotiate contracts etc. Without the state, within very few generations, people would start to (because they'd have to) care about these things. Those that already know these things live in better conditions than the others. I also live in a shared space managed by a management company. It's case by case, but I surely believe you that it can be terrible. It just does not need to be. There is no such implication. Just as you can have a terrible webhosting service or ISP. Or not. > You then say that interested citizens of the city could form companies to participate in joining the cities with roads - this is just another way of saying that the locals will form a local government for managing the roads, as the funding would likely be coming from local citizens who would want the road built. It's not the same. I explained that already, no need to repeat the nonsense. > We have not even discussed the quality of the roads that would be built. With no standards on the roads being built as there is no regulation applied to the roads its more likely that they will be built as cheaply as possible and as a result may be more unsafe for driving on. It's quite the opposite. As this article (https://thelibertarianrepublic.com/but-muh-roads-how-a-governmentless-society-could-still-have-an-infrastructure-system/) presents a great meme - "without the government, who would ignore the potholes". Also see the article for discussion on who could build the roads and maintain. It is true that private roads are usually cheaper. Like much cheaper. The quality is of course better too. This is true for any good and service provided by government. That is health care (private is usually better), education (private is usually better), security (private is usually better). I'm sure, if you search on the web, you can find the stories of roads built without government.

OffThread

You should check your IP, You might be shocked how long it's 'yours'. The world knows what ISP controls the group of IPs and your ISP certainly knows who owns the individual IPs during certain periods of time. I'm not saying it's static IP, but doesn't change very often at all and time based logs are the norm.

grissomgil

Thank you a lot! Great to know about something that works nowadays. Do you create your own pool because it is required to miner solo? The full node was easy to set up, just reading Bitcoin Core instructions and some try and fails about ISP modem and make rules in the default Linux firewall of my distro (I fail enough because I first try iptables and others, but the default firewall of distro rules at the end). About the rest I am reading some stuff, sometimes scanning when it seems promising, what makes me lose something, the ancient trick.

BigDoodieInMyPants

That can be easilly obtained once reddit gives your IP address to the feds, who then get your real identity from your ISP.

breadereum

And probably access Reddit from your home wifi on clear net, which is connected to the internet with an ISP with whom you’re KYC’d and the government probably gets all info from.

CryptoCrackLord

As long as everything is sent over https (totally ubiquitous) and now becoming more common DNS over TLS but far from widespread adoption, then nobody can read what you’re sending or receiving except the target website. Nobody in the middle can decrypt it. If this was breakable, nothing on the internet would function, it’d be game over. People would be hijacking accounts left right and center constantly, nobody would ever be able to keep their accounts or information private. This is essentially what it was like before https became the gold standard a good 10 years ago. Now a lot of browsers enforce https and there really is no website that would send anything unencrypted. No website that matters, anyways. Maybe some dudes website he hasn’t updated from 1999. Now if your DNS is still unencrypted it basically allows them to identify what domains you’re trying to access. As it asks which IP a domain has over an unencrypted packet, so anyone in between you and the DNS could see that. Realistically your IP and any transient hops in between. But with DNS over TLS now that means nobody in the middle can see that. Only the DNS you’re requesting the data from. So that leaves us with one final piece of information your ISP could track, which really can’t be solved, except for using a VPN. The IP address of what you’re communicating with. That’s really all they can see. So they could for example determine that you’re accessing specific adult websites for which the IP range they use is well established, but they wouldn’t be able to identify anything else, what you’re watching, any accounts you have there (if any) etc. Literally just, your IP is talking to this IP and it’s known that this IP belongs to YouTube, etc. For smaller websites it’s unlikely they’d know which IP belongs to which website. So, if you use a VPN, all you’re doing is centralizing all that IP communication to the VPN provider instead of your ISP. I just don’t think it’s worth it, for the increased latency and slower speeds as you’re unlikely to have a VPN that provides you with enough speed to max out your internet, unless you’ve very slow internet. All anyone will basically be able to see at the VPN or the ISP is; this guy uses YouTube at 10am until 7pm and then uses certain “hub” at 10pm. It doesn’t tell them anything else, no information about your user identity on aforementioned website or what page you were on or anything, as all of that information is encrypted over https and there’s no way to decrypt that in transit. So they’ll basically be able to see that you’re like the average user of the internet. There’s really no particular special information they can garner. Now if say, you were accessing websites with severely illegal content, then your ISP could keep logs of you accessing that IP address and in the future when the FBI busts the website, they can ask ISPs for all of their customers that connected to that website at some point. But regardless, this could also happen with a VPN, you have to trust the VPN isn’t keeping logs intentionally or in the case of NordVPN; accidentally and then they got compromised and someone downloaded all those logs. The benefit of a VPN is very thin in my opinion and very specific and also comes with the possibility the VPN provider could be compromised at some point too.

bongosformongos

I‘m no expert, but isn‘t deep package inspection (DPI) a thing your ISP can do?

Successful-Snow-9210

I trust my VPN provider not to log,correlate or monetize my traffic unlike my ISP which most definitely does all 3. I use the VPN's DNS service so there's only one place getting my traffic.

CryptoCrackLord

Why would you use a VPN in the first place though? You’re just centralizing all of your internet traffic. Everything goes through https already which is encrypted end to end. The only part that isn’t encrypted is DNS but you can also enable DNS over TLS which I’ve done on my devices. At that point there’s not much reason to use a VPN. The only information your ISP can see is which IP talked to which IP but it can’t see the contents or even which website it was communicating with unless the IP is known to be part of a specific websites network of addresses. Using a VPN adds another layer of trust in there where you need to be trusting the VPN provider not to keep any logs, accidental or not. Not to mention sacrificing some internet quality since you’ll have slightly higher latency and probably much slower speeds unless your VPN provider is providing you with crazy bandwidth.

analogOnly

Let's say you checked your balance on a popular blockchain explorer, if you're not using a VPN which is logless, the ISP has that information, that blockchain has that information about who you are. Authorities could probably find a way to get that information if you weren't smooth brained enough to post it online.

tgibby1021

Yes it's possible, but I don't recall at all what the name would have been. The email I had at that time was from an ISP I don't subscribe with anymore but I used MS Outlook for my email client on that computer so there may be an old outlook file on that computer that would allow me to access emails from 2011 stored in that file on that computer because I know with 100% certainty I did NOT have my local outlook file synced with the ISP email server, so once I retrieved emails from my ISP server, they were now on my computer in Outlook and they no longer existed on the ISP server, so even if the email account no longer exists on the ISP servers or archives, my computer still holds the emails in an outlook file. Mtgox vaguely rings a bell. How many sites, platforms, or methods were there in 2011 to buy Bitcoin?

PMull34

Basically the router splits up the IP address your ISP (internet service provider) assigns you into multiple local network addresses like 192.168.1.xxx. If you plug your ISP modern straight into your computer then you wouldn't have to worry about forwarding. If you don't forward a port 8333 then connections coming in don't know which of the computers on the local network to connect to so like u/mainblueberry188 stated people won't be able to connect to your node from outside.  You can still connect to other boxes though which is fine. Any one you connect to has their port 8333 available either directly or by forwarding the router to that machine

0delta

You can only help the Bitcoin network if your ISP lets you open port 8333. Then other peers can find your node and this will improve decentralization. If you can only run behind Tor you don't participate in validating and forwarding the transactions, don't create redundancy for the network. You just download a copy of blockchain for your own use. This is ok if you plan to also run a lightning node, but expect a lot of tinkering, frustration and huge capital allocation to essentially a hot wallet.

bigbarryb

Depending on what messagesyou are thinking about, this actually was a problem until recently. VPNs and TOR solve a lot of these issues, an ISP cannot see where you are sending traffic if you use a VPN, at best they could block access to VPNs. But apart from that, Bitcoin is a peer to peer network, TOR actually is the same, so TOR solves this but of course at a cost of speed. TOR is slow. The problem was/is that Bitcoin nodes have been communicating with each other in plain text without encryption. Even your banking website uses encrypted communication, in fact all websites these days use it. Heard of SSL? With this, an ISP could look at the contents of your message and block it. Anyway, a recent release of Bitcoin core now uses encrypted messaging and eventually everyone will use this. So now you are sending messages to random locations, ISP doesn't know where all the Bitcoin nodes are, and the contents are encrypted. Mission complete.

murkforgian

Yes, the passphrase adds entropy, but that's a dead-end path, because the additional entropy doesn't change the scope of the private key domain The purpose of the passphrase is to be entropy which prevents theft in the event that the seed phrase's entropy is compromised - in the human world. It's not consequential that it also increases the entropy of the BIP32 seed > mynode.local The .local domain is not publicly resolvable in the global DNS. Your instance of the mempool.space explorer is connected to your own node, so your mynode.local queries are completely within your own network, not visible to your ISP

cpt_charisma

2) Depends on your DNS setup. In general, if you are using a router provided by your ISP, they can probably see that you're going to mynode.local, but probably can't see the reset of the address. It is possible that they are spying on everything that happens on your local network. If you use your own router, it's probably fine.

Aussiehash

Sure if they come after your IP address your ISP will gladly turn over your dox in an instant. Then you might start to look at hosting a node on a rented server overseas. Non-economic nodes don't really do much to help the network, if you spin up 100 Azure cloud nodes on a free hosting coupon, but they all shut down after 3 months when your freebie runs out, then they were just a massive waste of everybody's bandwidth. On the other hand if you run your own economic node and connect your SparrowWallet to it, then it makes no difference where you host it. On second throughts, there is always Starlink (Elon resists Government censorship that is not against their TOS) and Blockstream Satellite (which as a passive downlink, even Blockstream have no knowledge as to who/how many people are connected)

vxm009

Your node is useless for the bitcoin network unless you have a white ip. If your node is behind a NAT (router) noone can connect to it and it will just add some useless load for other nodes for sync. At least you need to forward 8333 port through the router but if your ISP uses NAT too it may be not enough too.

uncapchad

"Online" is a very big, unknown, completely unreliable 3rd party. You have 0 guarantee that 3rd party will be around forever, not be hacked or coerced/tricked into revealing meta-data about you. So no, maybe they don't get your phrase but they find your ISP, network carrier, find out who you are, hack your phone, add malware to your devices, infiltrate your chats. There are 10000s of ways of getting doxd everyday when you are on the internet. Even when you are just browsing or chatting here in Reddit.

Zawer

Don't use a Windows computer to transact Bitcoin, it's owned by Microsoft. Don't use the Internet to access your Bitcoin, it's managed by your ISP. Don't use Ledger for your cold storage, it's a centralized product /s

Professional-Swim-69

Yep I used it all the time, Hotmail was the defacto standard (not even AOL as it didn't exist), ICQ was your messaging. Linux distribution Slackware, every single technology company today, everyone, build their products on Linux (or FreeBSD), your car, your fridge, your thermostat, the WiFi AP, the firewalls and routers connecting you, the world owes Torvalds for its contribution, we have a digital economy because of him. For good and bad I know Those modems you are talking about? I set them up at an ISP, 16 modem blades per chassis and a ComputeOne multiport card to connect these to a server. Cisco 4507 to the ISP running BGP with my ARIN AS, I'm sorry I'm ranting here, miss those days

filenotfounderror

I use a VPN because 2x ive gotten letters from my ISP re: torrenting and that was 2x too many :|

HSuke

Yeah. It's ugly. I don't know what the long-term solution is, and I'm glad I'm not involved. Solana validators have to pick between a bullet to the head (death by dropped packets) or a slow-acting poison (centralization), and the slow-poison option is looking more survivable. Official validator bandwidth requirements are 1 Gbps symmetrical and 10 Gbps recommended. But with the congestion and spam, some validators are exceeding sustained 1-2 Gbps bandwidth, and they're getting high bills and hitting ISP limits. Validators and slot leaders are getting crushed, and reducing traffic through blocking is their only solution so far.

maxcoiner

Technically, bitcoin can be transacted with homing pigeons, but I wouldn't recommend it. It is much more robust than legacy finance options like credit & debit cards for sure though. Mainly because the information exchange can be done peer to peer, such as phone to phone as long as one of those phones goes to the network later and broadcasts it's transaction. So assuming you can power your phone in that outage (solar charger?) you can do full bitcoin commerce with someone phone to phone and then your BTC balance could be updated the moment you get connected to the node network. The node network, by the way, can be made stronger than your ISP network for sure. It can be run over P2P hops and even HAM radio. All bitcoin blocks are broadcast from space via blockstream satellites. Bitcoin's robustness is probably the world's foremost disaster-ready transactional technology.

SundayAMFN

Some of this is certainly conjecture about how things will play out, but do you really think the USA would let its entire economy fail and bitcoin takeover without using all of its resources to maintain economic control? When you connect to the internet, it's through an ISP that is government regulated. All outgoing overseas connections are regulated by the USA. If the government thinks bitcoin is an existential threat, they will have no last move except to shut down all internet connections until it has some semblance of control.

Hofnars

For energy cost look at max wattage for your cpu, multiply by 1.2 to account for PSU loss and plug that into a kwh/cost calculator. There's a million of them online. Why no info on bandwidth requirements? Does your current ISP allow business traffic, is it capped, will it throttle at some point? You have to have a static IP as well, which probably comes at a cost. Will you be penalized for poor connectivity/drops? Running a couple of low power nodes will probably be the cheapest and easiest part of this.

BRRGSH

Yeah, I got some because the main ISP of my country, Telefonica started a project that would use it as a chain and I thought it was very interesting. I don't expect it to moonshot tho.

Itchy-File-8205

The ISP can see when you're using tor. If the govt is willing to kill to get BTC, it's not a stretch that they would start their torture campaign on people using tor. Once again your anonymous idealism falls flat. "Just use tor, only p2p, etc" is dogshit advice that doesn't hold up in practice.

Enschede2

They have taken stand against it, but not by sacrificing decentralization.. Unfortunately it's rather difficult, you want things like this to stop permeating the crypto community, but that's like asking it the stop permeating the internet, it's unfortunately not that simple, nor is it the ISP's duty to block access. Now it's rather simple, it can be filtered out on the front end, which is what I believe they intend to do, but if you want decentralization then you will have to come to terms with the fact that on the internet people can and will post and do offensive things, they always have, and unfortunately always will.. If someone posts something racist on reddit it's not your ISP that is accountable, it's up to reddit to moderate their platform, moderation can be done while being decentralized, or even through decentralization, but having your ISP analyzing and banning your traffic is not an option. It's the same story as ever, what do you want? Freedom or security?

FexPro

I’ve added a few small bags of KAS, NAKA, AKT and ISP and a few meme coins as a gamble. Seems like gaming and AI will be the main contenders this next bull run

Pasukaru0

If you connect to someone elses node to check your balance, they have the address. In addition to that, they can use your IP and any other information you send to that node to try and link it to you personally. On example: If you use your regular internet connection it is (from a technical perspective) trivial to contact the ISP and figure out the owner of that IP at the time you performed the query. How reliable and usable this is (in legal battles, law enforcement, etc) is a different story. The point is that it is possible.

bitcoin_barry

You can still send transactions over a phone line, over radio waves, as a picture, post them to one another etc. You can still find ways to synchronise data between participants so that everyone can stay up to date. The thing that the internet hides is that you aren't supposed to be looking at someone else's records when it comes to validating transactions. You are supposed to have a local copy of Bitcoin's history, constantly keeping it up to date, and using the very logical rules it comes with to ensure that you're not accepting lies and false information. The internet is the medium of choice for data transmission because it is the most convenient and fastest, it also is a word that includes the dark web, bluetooth connections, radio connections (wifi), but we seem to only imagine the ISP to webservers part of it when we think about it. Phone calls would technically be part of "the internet" if you go to a website, make an order, someone makes a call and then you get a final response on your webpage. Your question is really kind of disingenuous. Amazon today has stores, but they started, they succeeded by not needing a store. If there was no internet, Amazon probably wouldn't exist today. You can call Google and ask questions? Well they don't have infrastructure for that really. I can never find a number to call to reach Google, but they have built out huge amounts of infrastructure to ensure that they are available via the internet. This is also really not a great question because it's like saying "humans wouldn't exist if there was no water on the planet"... but there is water on the planet, so why frame the point as if you have just proven that humans don't exist or that humans won't exist for long.

DefiantDonut7

Define fake number? If it’s actually over true cellular or VoIP it’s trackable. Source: I run an ISP lol. There’s a lot of ways these scammers give themselves up without knowing it

gavitronics

based on what i've seen on the interwebs the final bitcoin mined after the final halving process terminates will generate the final confirmation that the foreign exchange currencies of sovereign states will no longer hold pole position as the dominant means of exchange. bitcoin will become the dominant source of stored digital value and the price of pre-AI energy will cement its 'digital gold' status. it will then stabilize and act as a default global currency for all major trustless protocol and associated credit networks. it will also have the capacity to incentivize in much smaller denomination functions. conventional forex will resurge after the global standardization resettles and coins will reappear in physical format to transact beyond retro spaces for dedicated subnetworks. new coins will, like all products bought and sold, contain ISP addresses as barcodes become optional.

drm604

From the article: "So, whatever the price of Bitcoin in weak money as the USD, placing the fruit of your labor outside the debt-based-system, which is flawed and not fixable, is tantamount to protecting it and securing your future. When this debt-based-system collapses, your wealth in Bitcoin cannot be unloaded. If you own 1 BTC, you'll always have 1 BTC in 21 million units. That's essential. Better still, no one will be able to censor you in the use of your Bitcoin." Here's where I think there may be a flaw in this logic. If the so-called flawed "debt-based system" of the dollar collapses, will we still even have a workable internet? Will the infrastructure needed to use Bitcoin still work after such a catastrophic collapse? Will your ISP or cell company accept Bitcoin as payment?

Areshian

Sorry, but I don't agree with you here. First, the non-controversial part, ECDSA is vulnerable to a machine that as of today or the near future, cannot be built. But if that machine were to be built, it would be vulnerable. That is different to other cryptographic schemes, were even if this QC computer were built, it wouldn't be vulnerable. Now, into the meat part. QC as an instrument to break cryptography doesn't mean you immediately have access to every bank/military/etc. It will be extremely powerful, but doesn't mean you have a button that says "hack" and it works. Let's imagine I do have that computer, one that can instantly hack non-QC resistant ciphers like RSA, ECDSA or ECDHE. What would it take for an attacker to steal money from the bank? So, what does the hack allow them? Well, if they get access to my traffic while I connect to the bank, they can decipher it. That means they are able to see my user and password. But having my user and password is not enough to get access to my money, there is an SMS that needs to be sent. So they also need to hijack my phone company, or the cell network in my area. Or alternative, instead of just capturing my traffic (not so easy honestly, most wifi are protected by AES, which is QC resistant), but to establish a MITM attack. With that approach, they could create a "fake" website of my bank that would look like legit (thanks to the computer, they will present what my computer will consider a valid TLS certificate), wait for me to do a transfer or another operation that requires the SMS and use that code for them). Establishing a MITM attack would require some extra work, mostly hijacking a DNS so they can redirect my traffic to them, but let's assume they already control my traffic, maybe because they are an ISP or I'm accessing my bank through a public wifi or something like that. Also, they don't know how much money they will be able to steal from me. Do I have $100 on my bank or $100000? And even after all that, there is a possibility that the transfer will be rolled back, and if the bank detects there is a QC attack, they can block access via web to the accounts, force customers to go to the office (yes, horrible, but possible) and eventually, bring the web back online with some QC safe approach. That's not the case for Bitcoin. I don't need to attack your communication to the bank and your SMS or your DNS or something like that. I just need to look for wallets I can hack, and start getting money. Sure, if I get greedy and go for high profile wallets like Satoshi (actually, these may not be possible, you need wallets that have signed a transaction already to hack) or big exchanges I will be noticed and Bitcoin value will tank, but I can get a lot of money from less prominent wallets. You could try to sell the magic QC computer itself, selling to someone that is interested in using it to attack other, more specific targets, like military ones. But I'm not sure that is a great idea, there is a good chance you get "silenced" instead of paid.

Defusion55

Do you think ISP's should be able to regulate which sites you visit, how much time you can spend on the internet? what you can and can't download? How fast some sites can load? Cause CBDC's are trying to take cash that same direction. Control where you can spend it, control how much you can spend, control who you can transfer it to, fine you if you receive CBDC or confiscate it if you receive it from a source they don't like, etc etc. pretty wack you would prefer a CBDC over cash tbh

Stiltzkinn

If you check the nitpicks from Davos, they want to control the Internet with Digital IDs, they are going to attack from ISP.

C01n_sh1LL

With subpoenas to the exchange and to vis ISP.

FortyandLife2Go

Thankfully I have a 15kw whole home gen and recently ordered Starlink as a back up to my ISP should I lose connectivity. I'm not getting onto my peloton bike or rower and not get credit for the workouts.

sackot

Well, that's really interesting. I bought some bitcoin from them in 2011. More recently I had a run-in with some KYC nonsense where a financial organization wanted to know where I got my coins. "I mined them" (that was almost entirely true, I mined most of them, used the majority in purchases, but have a little left). They didn't understand what that meant, and continued to demand copies of the purchase transaction, certified by an accountant. In the end, to my own surprise, I dug out 11 year old bank statements with a line "XX pounds, recipient Mr Taaki". I found an accountant who would farcically certify it, and got my account unfrozen, after months of grief. When Amir set up the exchange, it was called Britcoin. I can't remember when it changed to Intersango, or whether I had any balance on it when it disappeared. Amir had gone off to Syria by then. Funding by sending to the owner's personal account is quite quaint, too. I'll not have got the email because my old Demon ISP disappeared, but would quite like to check whether they have my transaction history or any remaining balance. Could you say what email they are using?

CyberCurrency

>I need to understand more, maybe we all should be keeping a secure device in a storage medium that keeps it safe from emp, but if the whole ISP network is down how could you access anything at all. How would miners communicate if ISP networks don't come back for years. There's a case where the network could shard into many sub-networks at that point; until people vote on which network to unify under, it is possible to double-spend the bitcoin if nodes and miners are fragmented all around the world. That said, the network is, for the most part, self-healing. As long as there are enough connected computers communicating with each other and producing blocks, the network lives on. Even if the network goes dormant, as soon as it's spun up, you can recover all your funds.

optimus_primal-rage

This is exactly why I buy bitcoin. I do store my seed phrase in what I feel is a secure method bit if emp strikes and no new computer or phone will work for years how can you access bitcoin. Time is money and not having access for years could be the end for some. I need to understand more, maybe we all should be keeping a secure device in a storage medium that keeps it safe from emp, but if the whole ISP network is down how could you access anything at all. How would miners communicate if ISP networks don't come back for years.

AlexFaden

Dude. Im from fucking Russia. Stop fearmongering people. Russia can only block VPNS that are publicly known. If you just buy a cloud server access from some company and setup your own vpn ISP will be obvious to it. Thats why VPN's still work in China. Hell even Tor still works there by using bridges. There are even vpn protocols that hide the fact that you use vpn and to any dpi(deep package inspection) it looks like you accessing some of the google services instead of restricted source. Stop looking at shitty companies like express vpn and nord vpn. Those cant even setup protocols that protect from dpi, dont fucking know why. Probably because all they care is their speeds, not actual security and privacy.

AlexFaden

Dude. Im from fucking Russia. Stop fearmongering people. Russia can only block VPNS that are publicly known. If you just buy a cloud server access from some company and setup your own vpn ISP will be obvious to it. Thats why VPN's still work in China. Hell even Tor still works there by using bridges. There are even vpn protocols that hide the fact that you use vpn and to any dpi(deep package inspection) it looks like you accessing some of the google services instead of restricted source. Stop looking at shitty companies like express vpn and nord vpn. Those cant even setup protocols that protect from dpi, dont fucking know why. Probably because all they care is their speeds, not actual security and privacy.

mljsimone

You need to start thinking on terms of probabilities. How likely is for your ISP to dig, your bank to seize your deposit box and to grandma to throws your old toolbox to happen at the same time? very unlikely. Even if one of those sites are compromised will not matter since they need to compromise all of them at the same time. How likely is that to happen? you want more security? split the key even more. duplicate even more.

R3asonableD1scours3

Are these devices connected to the Internet? Are they stored at more than one physical location? I think a lot of people act like storing sensitive items at multiple locations isn't pretty difficult and loaded with its own risks. Grandma throws out the old toolbox one half-seed flash drive was in, your ISP accidentally digs 3 feet past your utility easement and smashes the box you buried, the bank that your safety deposit box is at gets robbed, etc. These are all fairly unlikely to happen, but how much of your savings would you be willing to get on that? The more places it is stored, the more options to be compromised, and the more effort it takes to keep an eye on all of them. It's not an impossible situation, just a pain in the ass that gets more and more uncomfortable the more you have riding on it.

Boring_Ad4003

From expressvpn too: >Can ISPs see VPN connections? >Yes, ISPs can see that you are connecting with a VPN. However, >while you’re on a VPN, they can see far less of your traffic. This is >because VPNs encrypt your traffic, making it appear to ISPs as >gibberish. >Why does the ISP still see some information? >The internet works by sending traffic from one server to another. >To get online, you need to have some server as a starting point. It’s >unavoidable for your ISP to see that hop to the VPN server. >However, each VPN server is used by a large number of users, so >server information is common knowledge and provides no insight >to the ISPs The IPS can see where the traffic is going, and if ALL your traffic is going to a single ip, that seems pretty easy to detect to me. I don't say there can't be some obscure ways to bypass their checks, but if the most popular services will be blocked, that's enough to stop a lot of people from keep looking for alternative solutions

Dramatic_Discount287

Your ISP can see when you use NordVPN because NordVPN uses popular server providers. Like I said: >There are some VPN "detections", however these do not detect VPNs themselves. They only detect when an IP Address ASN belongs to a known server provider.

Boring_Ad4003

Is this statement wrong then? It's from nordvpn's website "Can an ISP see that I am using a VPN? Yes, your ISP can see that you are using a VPN. It can also see the amount of traffic traveling to and from your network. However, when you use a VPN, your ISP cannot see the websites you visit, what content you watch, or what you download."

turtle-wins

I am sorry, but no.  That is just crazy wrong.  Everyone is free to do whatever they want, but "filtering" out things you don't like is plain and simple censorship. Like if I ran my own ISP and decided to "filter" out all the "bad" words.

ElderBlade

You can use an old laptop or get a raspberry pi 4 for around $100. You can run it in pruned mode which doesn't require much storage or get a 1TB drive for a full node storing the blockchain is about $50-60. All you need to do is download bitcore and keep it running on a computer. There is electricity cost to keep it running obviously and download/upload rates depend on your ISP. You can keep it on for a few hours per day. Doesn't have to be 24/7. See this link for more info: https://bitcoin.org/en/full-node

Normal-Jelly607

Nuclear war wouldn’t stop it either, you’d have to take out all miners on the planet with access to starlink or any other ISP. Nuclear war usually wouldn’t involve places like remote islands, deserts, or mountains as there’s no strategic value.

SmoothGoing

Your ISP is listening to your email traffic for anything that looks like bitcoin priv keys and runs a script to empty them. Teamwork?

ReitHodlr

Oh i see. But what if it's outside hackers using North Korean ISP to mask their real origin?

HSuke

Everything in life has weak subjectivity. You want to visit a website, you need to trust your ISP, DNS, and a whole slew of infrastructure. On Ethereum, there are 2 main categories: long-range and short-range. The type you're talking about, long-range, doesn't exist anymore. Within 24 seconds, your node would be off sync, and there are another protocol-level checkpoint at 1 epoch and 2 epochs. Short-range exists, but it's similar to falling for the wrong website when you try to access your bank account. You'd notice something wrong within a single block.

jaimewarlock

I live in Kenya and local internet is actually a lot better than when I was in the USA. It is all the competition. There are dozens of ISP providers in my area, many of which even have optical. Compare this to a single DSL provider when I lived in Hawaii just a few years ago. Even the local G3 in Nairobi is much faster than anything I could get in the USA.

jps_

Consider it tuition. Unless you can trace the transaction to a friendly exchange that does KYC, you are pretty much out of luck. But if you really want to trace it down, and you don't mind spending a great deal more than $1,300 the first thing to do is file a police report. The police probably have more interest finding a lost cat, but that's not really the point. With a police report, and a lawyer, you then make a civil claim for damages against John or Jane Doe. The first part of your civil claim is to subpoena parties who are witness to identity of John or Jane Doe... namely the ISP that hosted the website and the domain registrar at which it is registered. Because... frankly, they got paid, and someone paid them. You want to know who. So you request the complete bank account information. Then you trace that to the bank that paid them, and subpoena the records of that bank to reveal the identity of the account holder. If your scammers are smart (and sometimes they are), the payments will have been fraud, and you'll have the ID of a cutout. But sometimes they aren't and you will now know who did this. And you can take it from there. KYC is there for a reason. However, you should be aware that just the process of discovering their identity using legal means may cost well more than ten times what you lost, and quite a while. By then the money could have all been spent, or they could be beyond the reach of cooperating legal systems... So it's generally not worth it except as a crusade.

iGhost1337

exactly that is one of the reasons why vpn exists. so the ISP can't block shit. lol

iterativ

They can block the URLs, not the IPs. Well, they can, but why bothers, those are dynamic, they have to block a large part of the internet too. VPN is not even required for that. In fact, never use your ISP DNS server, there are many open & free, such as DNS WATCH, Open NIC etc

Substantial_Bear5153

That's not how it works. DNS can (and should) be tunneled through VPN too. The ISP can't see anything

root88

I absolutely do know what I am talking about. You can't trust companies to do this responsibly or correctly. Many apps literally send memory dumps that could contain anything. Your app should never, ever contact any server whatsoever without my explicit permission. The network traffic to ledger servers alone could make you a target. My ISP can see what I am connecting to and even if I am using a VPN, that company can see what I am connecting to. If I plug in my ledger, it should say, click okay to verify you ledger certificate on our servers. It should never be a mystery whatsoever what information is being sent to an from my computer.

C01n_sh1LL

Yes, you can assume they do operate or infiltrate consumer VPN services. Even Tor is not immune to this, as intelligence agencies of wealthy nations can afford to simply provide a huge portion of network peers in order to get a bird's eye view and do traffic analysis, the Tor equivalent of a 51% attack if you will. Using a VPN to without a good and specific reason to do so, is just throwing an additional ISP into the mix. It generally will not improve your security, improves privacy only minimally, and increases your attack surface in many ways.

NobodyImportant5895

This heavily depends on so many factors and tools that you are using. From a security point of view, the VPN provider can't steal your BTC, just like your ISP can't (unless you do some serious mistakes). From a privacy point of view, things are a bit more complicated. Assuming you let electrum directly connect to random public servers when you open it, your VPN provider will see your DNS queries that are related to electrum (unless you use DNS over TLS, DNS over HTTPs or DNS over Tor) and in the TCP packets, the target IP can be identified as an electrum server. However, to actually see which public BTC addresses belong to you, they'd have to run that electrum server AND the VPN service you use. That, I'd assume, is not likely. If you don't use a VPN service, the same capabilities apply to your ISP. Keep in mind that electrum can also run through a local tor proxy. So you could first fire up the VPN, connect to tor and then open electrum. From your ISP's point of view, they can just know "ah this guy is using ProtonVPN/whatever" based on the target IP you connect to. Your VPN provider then knows where you are initially located and that you use tor (also based on target IP). The Tor exit node will then know you connect to electrum, while "you" in that case is pretty random by now, having gone through all these steps. tl;dr: Keep your keys safe and no one can steal your coins. Can someone match you with your BTC address? Technically possible but requires providers to run both your service and the electrum server.

CryptoMeetsContact

Your ISP would definitely flag that activity if it were made illegal.

MiceAreTiny

You can try sending them a registered letter with that information. https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=How+do+you+make+your+ISP+believe+that+you+are+in+a+different+country%3F

slavikthedancer

> make the internet provider believe you are in a different country How do you make your ISP believe that you are in a different country?

TissueUnflawed

I don't think Electrum asks you to re-enter the key Not that it matters in the context of the question A Bitcoin wallet is self-contained. The wallet app does not "phone home". There's no Electrum Web server processing your seed words or keys, or making signatures. All this is done within the app. There's no network traffic containing seed words or keys for the ISP to spy on The only network traffic for a wallet app is to and from one or more Bitcoin nodes. Incoming traffic is your transaction history, based on your addresses. Outgoing traffic is your addresses (so you can receive transaction history), and your signed transactions

SmoothGoing

If you understood how these things work you would know which parts are a concern and which aren't. ISP isn't capturing things that are never sent through it.

TooChilln

IAH, it will never be "too late" to get off zero and migrate into the btc protocol. We are so early in the grand scheme of things, in 100 years, the world will be completely different and remnants of the old legacy dynastic order may exist in some form, but the protocol is much more than a store of value and medium of exchange. The implications of its role in future society are more than what I can imagine. When the internet was released out of the narrow scope of information transfer within certain agencies and out into the public sector for adoption, questions of the safety of email, how will it work, what is send the email, will it completely replace letters and the postal system, were the first stories I recall hitting the headline news. Shortly after Prodigy, our first ISP, allowed us to connect to the "net" via 56kmpbs over land line. We could be on the phone talking or boot up Prodigy, not both.. until having a second dedicated line became all the rage. It was just billboards, forums, and files to sort thru, but everything started changing real quick with mass adoption and implementations such as AOL and the world wide web were released. I still had a pager in high school then and could never fathom the speed with which the tech continued to play out as it will continue to do with the Bitcoin Protocol now firmly layered on top of it. I guess the point is that I think it will become so common that he won't have a choice to use it in some Manifestation or another. Forgive, as I ramble more on the tech, steering the convo away from the current investment strategy and take advantage of this rare opportunity to get ahead of the curve, so to speak. Some, as I have been doing for a while, just DCA every couple of weeks as we ascend out crypto spring and into a summer that may last to mid-2025. I highly doubt we will see BTC at $25k ever again. $35k perhaps, but when you're staring at the most innovative transformation of information from the net into a POW protocol that becomes its own global network of data thorough fare, it won't matter if you buy what you can afford as long as you see it for the long game that is. Timing and trading it wouldn't be my recommendation unless you're a pro. Some investment institutions actually won't buy into a market until it stabilizes at a one trillion dollar market cap. Once the SEC approves the regulatory framework and green lights the ETF applications, I imagine days of five digit value will be a thing of the past but still not too late to buy in to plan for retirement savings. They just won't be part of the prosperity landscape filled with the early pioneers who either mined, bought 20 for fun, and immediately used it as a new and novel way get a better MDMA hook up from the Silk Road v1. Only to find out that the $200 worth of said experiment with BTC to use as an exchange for some Dutch Import molly turned out to be $20,000 fuking $$$!! So instead, they vowed never to miss the downside of volatility and load up as much as possible and spend the profits on good quality empathogeans. Etc, Etc...wait until the big boys play and wait or take a little risk for higher reward during these next few cycles, learn and educate One's self about and store it like the game changing asset it already is. Either way, ..BTC and a few others are not going away, and the profundity of their impact on the social stratum is pretty exciting. I personally decided not to orange pill anyone who is so steeped into cognitive bias without any desire to hear about it. Even then, you see how my focus shifts as I lose track of articulated clear arguments or points in the written word...so yeah....I suppose I just wanted emphasize how early we still are in adoption and reflect on the comparison of experience of rising tech that had the ability to change the structure of legacy systems, institutions and ways of human organization that have been around for thousands of years...forever. Sorry for wasting your time while l pretend to know what the fuck I'm talking about.

CanWeHaveFacts

Tor. Onion. This "internet" is only what your ISP wants you to see. Dig deeper. Follow that rabbit.

boat_go_brrr

You did do your part to raise those prices. If you have a pc, there's most likely a graphics card in it. You are using the internet: ISP + Reddit data centers easily use as much as a bit mining facility

Swordfish418

I tried it they got it wrong too. They "preventively suspended" my account before I even finished registration because of VPN. I use VPN for everything as a basic security measure since I don't trust my ISP and I don't have faith in security of wiring infrastructure where I live.

randomFrenchDeadbeat

It doesnt work that way. GDPR basically says if you are using that data, you are responsible; you arent only if you have an ISP status, which you get by complying to rules you cant comply with using that system.

Objective_Digit

An ISP is not a protocol.

WeekendQuant

Except it isn't because every time it's been banned the network got stronger. It would take a universal ban from all humans at once to kill it. Every single person on the planet gets a vote. Bitcoin can and does run offline, so they can't just turn Bitcoin off with the ISP. There's no way to actually stop Bitcoin.

thecoat9

Don't rely on the senders address appearing to be legit unless you know your provider checks email message headers for spoofing (many don't) and flags emails in some way if there is evidence of spoofing. Spoofing email messages is fantastically easy, spoofing them in such a way that doesn't leave evidence of spoofing in the header information is much more difficult. Many ISP's don't check email headers looking for spoofing, but email service providers like gmail do. Gmail will still put the message in your inbox but flags it as suspicious warning you not to trust the source as being legit.

randomFrenchDeadbeat

I think it is shit, since the exit node owner is legally responsible for whatever is done with his node. It does not matter how much "blockchain VPN" claim they arent. They are, since they dont fullfill the conditions to be protected as an ISP operator. I fully believe there are 3 things very harmful with crypto/blockchain : rugpulls, privacy coins aka laundering machines (doesnt matter how much people go "muh freedom" to justify them, they ARE used as laundering machines) and those crappy VPNs.

wolfparking

Are you misinformed or did you misunderstand? Ethereum staking requires that you are able to process 1.2-1.3 GB download and ~0.9-1 GB upload per hour. Not per second. You need to be concerned about the monthly data caps your ISP has, but otherwise most highspeed plans will be fine.

PoisonWaffle3

Even if they were on a cable modem, as long as the modem is authenticated/allowed/provisioned on the ISPs network, they can generally be moved around pretty freely as long as they're on coax that connects back to the same ISP. It's pretty common for people to move, take their modem with them, hook it up at their new house, and not even think to call the ISP. As long as both houses are served by the same ISP, it usually just works. Source: I'm a DOCSIS/PON engineer for a large ISP. Anyway, people stealing power to mine crypto is a bullish sign!

Logical_Lemming

So the ISP activated some random modems without verifying where they were or who they belonged to? Don't think that would fly in the US.

gggt34

Hey mate thanks, so I did step 2 and didn't get any 8333 on listening. As for 4, that's how it shows in my router settings page. under "forwarding" I have "virtual servers" and "port trigering". I actually did the same in both but I think the "virtual server" is the relevant one. I thought it was just terminology difference. I have a static IP address and ISP shouldn't be blocking it. I believe it's something in the process because I couldn't open ANY port except 8080 which I believe is my router's.

Szabadsagharcos

Few ideas: You could be behind NAT at the ISP already. Check your public IP if it is actually yours (like ping it from outside and unplug the router, it should go down). You can use IPv6 only (there is a bigger need for nodes there too). Just edit the config file assuming you have IPv6 support at your ISP. You need to edit bitcoin.conf to allow more connections. Did you do this? maxconnections=300 maxoutconnections=10