MSB

Futureboard112234

If you're asking whether Bitunix is a good exchange. The answer is yes, especially for beginners and everyday traders. As a community fan, I’ve seen how user-friendly and reliable it is. The interface is simple, the fees are low, and it offers both spot and futures trading, so you have room to grow as you learn more. Is Bitunix safe? Absolutely. It uses solid security measures like cold wallet storage, two-factor authentication (2FA), and strict KYC rules to protect users and follow regulations. They've even acquired licenses like the MSB in Canada, which shows they’re serious about compliance and safety. Of course, there are other exchanges out there, but if you're looking for something easy to use, secure, and backed by a supportive community, Bitunix is a great place to start.

NameLast966

Referral Code: MNG-BEAM-MSB

Ok_Category_6395

In Florida where I’m at, there are thousands or Bitcoin ATMs now (mostly run by the same few companies). It’s kind of a friendly state for this specific type of crypto business, mainly because of the limited regulatory costs. For instance, the retail and OTC crypto exchanges are all usually required to obtain a state money transmitter license here (in addition to requiring federal registration with FinCEN/Dept of Treasury as an MSB/money transmitter). So the exchanges are subject to both state and federal compliance expenses (e.g., AML/KYC, surety bond, minimum net worth, permissible investments, quarterly reporting, audited financials, etc. This may be fairly cost prohibitive for a start-up, especially given the stiff competition out there now. On the other hand, crypto ATM companies, with some exceptions, generally do not require a state money transmitter license in Florida and so compliance costs are fairly minimal (aside from FinCEN registration and AML requirements). This is mainly because an ATM transaction, for the most part, will typically be a two-party/P2P transaction where the ATM company is not acting as an intermediary between buyer and seller (unlike an exchange such as Coinbase, Kraken, or Binance.US).

Codebender

Sounds like pig butchering. They'll continue to "make money" until they decide to put real money in. Then the problems start, more money needed for taxes, fees, etc., before they can withdraw, and eventually it's all gone. [https://www.scam-detector.com/validator/skdalo-xyz-review/](https://www.scam-detector.com/validator/skdalo-xyz-review/) There's a FinCEN letter on their about page that you could try to follow up on. It looks amateurishly edited, has some invalid entries, and the MSB number doesn't turn up [here](https://www.fincen.gov/msb-state-selector). The State of Colorado letter is [similarly bogus](https://www.sos.state.co.us/biz/BusinessEntityDetail.do?quitButtonDestination=BusinessEntityCriteriaExt&fileId=20221472913&masterFileId=).

__Ken_Adams__

Wrong. Speaking for the US only, Money Transmitter licensing is a state licensing issue & some states *do* require a Money Transmitter license to operate as a bitcoin exchanger. MSB status is a federal issue & isn't a "license", but a requirement to register as an MSB & follow all regulations that pertain to MSB's/financial institutions.

__Ken_Adams__

To expand a little on this, you *may* still be considered a money transmitter/MSB even if you don't take any formal steps to start a business. If you exhchane bitcoin or other crypto for others with any kind of regularity, whether or not you charge a markup/premium for your services, you may fall under FinCEN's definition of a money transmitter.

StatisticalMan

At least in the US you as Joe civilian can sell as much Bitcoins to anyone you want without even collecting their name. If you decide to turn this into a BUSINESS however you are now a money service business and obligated to perform all kinds of MSB regultions including KYC.

Spirited-Ad-4335

If you want to buy some small coins but you are not sure if the platform you are buying from is safe or not, you can check the authenticity on MSB, I was cheated when I first started investing so I summarized a lot of my experiences

amagadon

Looking at the entity and regulatory guidance on this, you sent funds to an unregulated remittance entity that does not follow AML/CFT rules and is likely pending OFAC/FinCEN public designation as blocked wallet addresses if they are not already. Kraken as a US based entity is required to follow items such as the "Travel Rule" and are required to fully understand the ultimate beneficiary of the transfer, which they likely could not do and are not comfortable permitting you to try and remove assets from their platform until they have cleared it. Kraken will release your US funds eventually once it is cleared with OFAC and they have determined your source of funds/wealth is not criminal and you resolve the blocked transaction with this. If they won't file a police report as stolen assets and a complaint with your states attorney general with the details and they'll likely resolve it pretty quickly as their MSB licenses would be in jeopardy. The remittance was not the issue, the entity you sent funds to was the issue and they have legal and regulatory obligations especially given their settlement with the DOJ/FinCEN for serving customers in Cuba, Iran and other sanctioned countries. They can get shut down by the feds if they don't have an iron fist on this - sorry you got popped by it, but as people have said, it's not a very expensive lesson at the moment.

Serene_Lennon

I am day trading crypto on [BYDFi](https://www.bydfii.com/) since a while back and I must say that I am very happy with the platform. No KYC, 200x leverage, 0.02% fees on contracts, and they allow US traders to trade thanks to the MSB regulation they have in the USA with FinCEN. Most US traders I know are moving there.

Seraph_Lilliana

I've been trading on [BYDFi](https://www.bydfii.com/) for the past two years and they allow US traders to trade up to 200x leverage on over 500+ coins without KYC thanks to the MSB regulation they hold with FinCEN in the USA. They have bots as well. Seems like they are growing fast in the US atm, good luck OP!

Successful_River8184

Yes Olivia and all the rest were part of the scam. I never got a penny out of them, reported them to FBI but no interest there. Don't send them any money for anything because you will never get a penny back. They will have you believing everything and those little girls will tell you all kind of s*** but don't believe them either.  One week after they went down at VVCT they opened up lyctct.co. I reported this as well a wrong with their fake MSB number they said they had but I know they didn't. They're not there anymore so I don't know where they ended up at but I can guarantee you one thing they are not in jail. They are out scamming somebody else right now

Successful_River8184

No they have gone underground and have screwed everybody out of their money including me for 1.3 million. Their new website is lyctct.co. They just got a new MSB number about 2 months ago for VVCT and are using it for the new site. I reported them with all the information I had to the FBI this weekend but I doubt I'll ever hear anything back and I know I'll never get any money out of it. I even offered one of the girls 200,000 if she would send me my money but they wouldn't do it or maybe they couldn't do it. Luckily I only had about 35K in it. The rest was their money.

I_Luv_USA_and_Allies

If you don't declare it and they find it, there is a chance it will be seized. Even if you eventually get it back, you'll have to pay a hefty sum for a civil forfeiture lawyer. Casascius coins were closed down because they were deemed an MSB. They are arguably a monetary instrument. Their physical representation as a literal coin doesn't help either.

xarquinn

Click on the links at the bottom of [silverlakevirtual.com](http://silverlakevirtual.com) - total jibberish If that is not enough, try the "MSB" and "SEC" tabs near the top - weird ass document and some type of fake certificate with addressed that do not match.

MaoVader888

The thing is I read the company behind this IRAs (the Trustee) is in most of the cases Fortress Trust and they have received “cease and desist” letters from Connecticut State and others ordering them to stop doing B2B on/off ramps in crypto with no MSB License. I don’t want to have another Gemini Earn shit on my money and I’m worried Fortress Trust looks so similar to PrimeTrust (now in Chapter 11). Thoughts?

Sudden_Community_826

I’d like to add that I’ve checked their MSB registration information and it checks out and seems legit since it’s verifiable. But I also know registering for a business doesn’t always mean that business is legit and following the laws. Now when I search up Carl Roberts in the broker database I can’t find him or any information on the so called skyline alliance. Weird too that every link for “contact us” on his firms site and Linus’s site are dead links.

imdabes

9.2 mill is a deal compared to all the lawsuits the SEC has slapped crypto MSB’s with. They’re getting off easy.

godofleet

Miners aren't trying to hide transaction info and they aren't intentionally marketing/bragging that they help criminals move money/break sanctions Bitcoin is open source code... but how people use it is not ... and that's sometimes illegal. Consider this from Sampson Mow: Keep calm and HODL #Bitcoin. Everyone seems to be overreacting to the Samourai arrests, the FBI PSA, and Phoenix leaving the US. Here's my attempt to break it down. Samourai You have to unpack all of the different elements. Could this be a state attack on self-custody and privacy? Maybe. Probably not. There are a few components here that need to be evaluated on their own. 1⃣ Samourai was a self-custodial wallet 2⃣ Samourai was a mixer 3⃣ Samourai was providing normal people with privacy 4⃣ Samourai were knowingly marketing the service to criminals and flaunting that fact Reading the charges, it seems like #4 is pretty cut and dry for this case. Their getting arrested for #4, doesn't automatically mean #1, #2, #3 are under siege as well. If Samourai was a taco stand laundering money and bragging about it, I'm sure they would be taken down too. They may be accused of running a money transmitter now, but that may or may not stick. We'll find out in the trial. All that said, we should always be vigilant to attempts to erode privacy and the ability to self-custody. It just does not seem that this fight is \*that\* fight. FBI PSA Seems pretty normal that the FBI would advise people to use compliant services, and the entire announcement seems to revolve around potential disruptions due to Samourai being taken down, and potentially others in the future. Given they took action, they have to post some bulletin about it. Remember that when people lose funds or have funds stolen from them, they do go to the FBI for help. From their point of view, the best thing for people to do is use compliant services where they can potentially help. The announcement concludes saying that services that purposely break the law will be investigated - so again we go back to #4 above. This is nothing new, and self-custody is not being criminalized. Phoenix Leaving As nostr:npub1sg6plzptd64u62a878hep2kev88swjh3tw00gjsfl8f237lmu63q0uf63m said, it's feels completely unnecessary. Phoenix obviously is not a MSB and they are not doing anything illegal. In my view, their exit from the US app stores is a complete overreaction. Keep Calm Could "they" come after wallets, developers, mixers, nodes, LSPs, sidechains, eCash, VPNs, encryption, etc? It's totally possible. But if you're not breaking the law, you have nothing to worry about. To my knowledge, there is still rule of law in the US, property rights are still protected, and privacy is enshrined in the Bill of Rights (nostr:npub1trr5r2nrpsk6xkjk5a7p6pfcryyt6yzsflwjmz6r7uj7lfkjxxtq78hdpu). It would be very difficult to change the law or stretch it to incriminate these things because it's all just information and software, which is speech. Some will try. But as they are trying, #Bitcoin is becoming more and more mainstream and integral to the world's financial system. #Bitcoin is freedom technology and it will continue on. Go outside this weekend and think about why you're here.

soks86

>1. Nov. 24, 2023 - Wallet Of Satoshi (WoS) bans US IP addresses Wallet of Satoshi was custodial and didn't want to register as an MSB or do KYC/AML so they left. >2. Apr. 23, 2024 - LightSpark, a LN based payment processor, loses US banking This post literally says it's not an issue and the processor who dropped them gave an invented reason. >3. Apr. 24, 2024 - [Samourai Wallet execs arrested by New York State](https://samouraiwallet.com/) Pro tip, don't run a mixer without setting up as an MSB after the government explicitly states that you need to. You even have lots of time to fall into line with MSB regs, it's not immediately required of a business. Dudes literally mocked the government, total FAFO. >4. Apr. 25, 2024 - FBI warns US citizens that non-custodial apps will be taken down A non-custodial app is not an MSB so your characterization of the document found at this link is not in line with reality. >5. Apr. 26, 2024 - Pheonix Wallet leaves the US under regulatory fears Dorsey, Stark, and Mallers all said they don't understand what legal issue Pheonix is concerned about. Who else do you need me to add to the list of BTC ecosystem ballers that are confounded by the actions of Pheonix Wallet. >6. Apr. 27, 2024 - zkSNACKs (Wasabi) bans US IP addresses This is just 1. again, wtf? Are you a troll? You must be either a troll or a tool because this is nonsense. Go waste a vote on RFK then prepare to lick boot.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; The FBI has issued a warning about the risks of using cryptocurrency services that do not comply with federal regulations, including those not registered as Money Service Businesses (MSBs) and lacking proper anti-money laundering protocols like KYC (Know Your Customer). The agency advises verifying MSB registration through the FinCEN lookup tool and avoiding services that do not request KYC information, as these may lead to financial disruptions or loss of funds during investigations. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

leaflavaplanetmoss

It's C, and even then, the only concern they're calling out is with those services involved in money transmission without having a license. Transmission of money (which literally means taking money from someone and transferring it to someone/where else; having custody of the funds during transfer is imperative to be considered money transmission) is a regulated activity and you have to be a registered money services business to do so legally. MetaMask is not an MSB and Coinbase is licensed. You need to understand the context of the FBI's announcement. It was released concurrently with the DOJ's indictment and takedown of Samourai Wallet, which provided a variety of mechanisms designed to increase privacy of BTC transfers, namely mixing and automating extra hops between the user's wallet and the destination address via the Ricochet feature. However, the DOJ is arguing that because these services were coordinated by Samourai servers (e.g. Samourai itself directed Ricochet withdrawals to intermediary addresses it created before sending it to the destination address), Samourai was actually an unlicensed money transmission business (MSB) that facilitated money laundering, as Samourai was actually conducting certain transfers itself; it wasn't entirely decentralized. As such, the FBI [announcement](https://www.ic3.gov/Media/Y2024/PSA240425) is basically warning crypto users that unlicensed MSBs could be taken down at any moment by the government, like Samourai was, especially those that don't have KYC. However, this shouldn't be interpreted as the FBI saying they're going to be going after unhosted wallet providers like Metamask, because those providers aren't operating as MSBs (assuming they're 100% non-custodial). For example, even though MetaMask has buy, sell, swap, and stake functionality, at no point does some MetaMask address or server take custody of the crypto to transfer it somewhere; the interactions are always between the user's wallet and the service from which you're buying, selling, swapping, or staking (which, if a centralized entity, does need to be a licensed MSB, at least for buying and selling--not sure about swaps and staking). This is absolutely key to understanding why truly non-custodial wallets can operate without being an MSB; Samourai arguably wasn't entirely non-custodial, at least when mixing and Ricochet was involved.

MrRGnome

Phoenix wallet just pulled out of the US because they clearly see exactly what I'm saying, that if this farce of a prosecution is the US governments idea of a MSB then so are lightning nodes and services. https://twitter.com/acinq_co/status/1783878732865740940

MrRGnome

No one hit up any money launderers. A tweet was sent suggesting sanctioned peoples were welcome to use bitcoin and coinjoins. A fucking social media post means you are an MSB, make that coherent. You're writing a fantasy novel.

NoPotato7788

My go-to platform is [BYDFi](https://www.bydfi.com/invite?ru=dpcfWp&f=frmrdt) and they accept US traders without VPN or KYC thanks to the MSB regulation they have in the USA with FinCEN. 200x leverage, 400+ altcoins and TradingView charts. 0.02% limit order fees and 0.06% market order fee (much cheaper than Binance and Bybit). Seems like they are growing fast in the US.

Overall_Jaguar_2782

I trade crypto with leverageon [BYDFi](https://www.bydfi.com/invite?ru=dpcfWp&f=frmrdt) and they accept US traders without VPN or KYC thanks to the MSB regulation in the US with FinCEN. My non-kyc account has a generous 5BTC daily withdrawal limit which is more than enough for me. 200x leverage, 400+ altcoins, and TradingView charts. Lower fees than Binance and Bybit, 0.02% for limit orders and 0.06% for market orders. Seems like they are growing fast in the US.

NoPotato7788

I've been margin-trading altcoins on BYDFi profitably for the past two years and they accept US traders without VPN or KYC thanks to the MSB regulation they have in the USA with FinCEN. High leverage (200x), 400+ altcoins, TradingViewcharts on desktop and mobile, and much lower fees than most mainstream platforms like Binance and Bybit (this is why I changed from Bybit). 0.02% for limit orders and 0.06% for market orders and the fees scale down with more volume so definitly good for leverage users or else the fees will eat up your account. Use their invitation cde on sign up for lifetime 20% fee discount: zU7hYx I'm very happy with the platform, especially with the order-matching engine which haven't failed me yet, even during peak volume. This is a problem I suffered from on Bybit. Everytime the market spiked or fell my orders either got stuck or they didn't process at all. So that's solved! I mainly to very short-term trading during positive breakouts and sometimes negative but for that I want good confirmation. So far soo good, I'm up on average 12% per week since I started. Seems like they are growing fast in the US. Hope it helps OP!

star_trek_wook_life

Half the exchanges I bought on disappeared with no records available online anymore. More than half of crypto CEX disappear. Cost basis becomes harder to figure out the longer you're here. It was the wild West a decade ago and it wasn't clear how it would be taxed if at all. If it were a currency then there would be no capital gains. It's taxed as a commodity like gold but not regulated as such. They now require AML and MSB regulations that usually only apply to currencies and not commodities. TLDR: it was weird back then

loldedend

I'm margin trading on [BYDFii](https://bydfii.com/en/) since two years back and they accept US traders without VPN or KYC thanks to the MSB license they obtained in the USA with FinCEN. 200x leverage, 400+ altcoins (list keeps growing), and much lower fees than most mainstream platforms like Binance and Bybit. 0.02% for limit orders and 0.06% for market orders. Seems like they are growing fast in the US.

gr8ful4

> I’m holding out for a DEX that covers me legally in the process. That means the DEX would need to have built in KYC, suspicious transaction reporting, and the DEX itself be registered as an MSB, et Never going to happen.

eburnside

Ahh! I’ve looked at Bisq before when it was just fiat<->BTC. Looked like just an overly expensive peer to peer version of Local Bitcoins, and at the time the US was arresting Local Bitcoins traders that weren’t registered as MSB’s https://bisq.community/t/can-someone-explain-the-enormous-fees-please/4354 I suppose that’s another place where a CEX protects you. The CEX handles the regulatory, sanctions checking, and reporting for you. When you trade on Bisq, *you* are legally on the hook for any reporting, money laundering, or sanctions violations that occur in the process If you trade to make money? That’s an MSB registration requirement (and part of the registering is agreeing to KYC your counter-parties) If you accidentally trade with a sanctioned terrorist? That’s potential prison time You get the idea I’m holding out for a DEX that covers me legally in the process. That means the DEX would need to have built in KYC, suspicious transaction reporting, and the DEX itself be registered as an MSB, etc

jcpham

This is what happened. The first coins were funded but that was the whole MSB case so then he sold DIY fund it yourself coins

Derek-Gridlock

We are registered as a Money Service Business (MSB) in the US, have both business and technical support from the UK, and an R&D grant from the EU. The underlying technology is complex and took years to build but the result is a fully distributed, self-custodial storage system that is effortless and safe.

Plenty-Training5136

US Gov has control over money in its jurisdiction. Binance did not follow several requirements to transact in US jurisdiction. Fincen is an organization that help police these requirements. KYC, MSB, and suspicious activity reports etc Why? Because they have been given that authority by US congress. Why does congress give so much oversight and authority to FinCen? Because financial crimes hurt tax payers normally. Why is it important to have a solid tax structure so we can collect taxes from everyone? Somebody needs to pay for all this stuff

LegendzEnt

You're probably but I hear credit unions are starting to be more crypto friendly but so far I checked a few in Michigan and no luck. Like I said I am in full compliance. I have a compliance team that audits me .I have a 30 page compliance program and I am registered as a MSB with Fincen. I'm fully legit as far as risk. And I make over a million a year. These banks should be more open to the idea . Anyway thanks for your input

mastertrader_777

If you're selling bitcoin as a business in the US, then you need to register with FinCEN and get a money service business licence and a money transmitter license. You also need to get a MSB license and money transmitter license from your state. If you sell more than $10,000 worth of bitcoin or anything to someone in the US for cash within a 24 hour period, then you need to file a Form 8300 with the IRS within 15 days. It's not illegal to sell some of your own personal bitcoin to someone else in the US but if you continue with a bitcoin sale after a buyer informs you that the cash they are using to buy your bitcoin was obtained illegally or that they will be using the bitcoin in the commission of a crime, then you have committed a serious crime. Undercover agents have been known to pose as P2P bitcoin buyers and they inform the seller that the cash they are using to buy your bitcoin was obtained illegally or that they will be using the bitcoin in the commission of a crime.

capturendestroy

They are often operating illegal money service business without a MSB license and without a money transmitters license. In simple terms, they are often illegally selling bitcoin on P2P exchanges without the proper licenses. Something that often happens to sellers on P2P exchanges is that a buyer sends them stolen money using a hacked bank account. This gets the sellers bank account frozen and then shut down. Banks in the US do not have a problem with their customers sending money to and from licensed exchanges like Coinbase, Kraken, Gemini, etc. Just use a normal exchange like Coinbase, Kraken, Gemini, etc and you wont have a problem.

kwanijml

I think you probably don't need to do anything...bitcoin is maybe working as intended for you I think and you can contine to evangelize it to others (or not) for the purposes you use it for. For libertarians, there's a huge issue in that governments have massively hobbled bitcoin's development into an actualized (unit of account) money, and relegated on/off ramps to centralized regulated casinos. We need to get tax classifications changed and get government out of regulating buying and selling and mining of crypto as MSB's.

kwanijml

This is such a poor (if common) understanding of how all of this works. The scammy part of the crypto ecosystem is a product of government and regulations. Speculating on large centralized casinos is literally all that's left for people to legally do with crypto, since the tax classification makes it next-to impossible to actually use any cryptocurrency as an everyday spending/earning money, and the MSB/banking regs and various bit licenses mean that on/off-ramping can't occur on p2p services like Localbitcoins or on DAPs.... All the actual decentralized/blockchain usage and activity that we used to see developing in bitcoin, pre-2014, has been driven underground to coins like Monero. Stop looking at the world around you and imagining that everything bad you see is a clear sign that goverent needs to come intervene. You live in a statist world with high levels of intervention everywhere- always start by looking at how existing laws and regs and interventions (or regulatory uncertainty) create or shape the behavior of people and firms.

kwanijml

Government created the crypto ecosystem as it currently exists with the tax classification and the MSB regs; so that people would clamor for it to be "regulated" (as if it weren't already) further into dysfunction and uselessness.

eburnside

In the US it only applies to USD from the MSB side

eburnside

It definitely is in the US. State MSB laws cover this and a Federal MSB registration is mandatory and requires compliance with all state laws.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Bitcoin, the peer-to-peer digital currency, is not issued, endorsed, or regulated by any central bank. It is created through a computer-generated process known as mining. The US Treasury has defined bitcoin not as currency, but as a money services business (MSB). Canada considers bitcoin exchanges to be money service businesses under anti-money laundering laws. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*

Raja528

Binance's exit from Canada due to regulatory reasons emphasizes the need for balanced cryptocurrency regulation. While it highlights the potential pitfalls of over-regulation, it also underscores the importance of a regulatory framework that supports growth. Bitget's acquisition of a Canadian MSB license demonstrates its commitment to navigating regulations.

soks86

They're the same thing. A business that operates as an MSB needs a money transmitter license. You can also get into business with someone who already has a license.

Morning_Star_Ritual

Nice write up. Here’s my take: it was a security but time has passed and we can’t go back and regulate something that has evolved. ETH is in the same sort of spot as btc was before the March, 2013 FinCEN guidance paper: **Users of Virtual Currency** **A user who obtains convertible virtual currency and uses it to purchase real or virtual goods or services is not an MSB under FinCEN’s regulations. Such activity, in and of itself, does not fit within the definition of “money transmission services” and therefore is not subject to FinCEN’s registration, reporting, and recordkeeping regulations for MSBs.** Before this it sort of was “is it legal for us to use this? Will we one day be regulated out of existence? Im just a snow plow polisher, so grain of salt, but I feel we will soon finally have some sort of legal event that finally removes the cloud over ETH….and any fear of it being a security will go the way the fear of bitcoin “even being legal to use” ETH is over 50% of my holdings. But I don’t fool myself. After the DAO Hack fork it sort of is clear that ETH is closer to a firm then gold or corn. And I prefer not to think about what The Merge or Shapella means when we try to debate both sides. Which we should always do. At this point I believe if Vitalik and the Foundation disappeared ETH would be fine. Wind the clock back to certain points in ethereum’s existence….I’m not sure that would be the case at all. What is key is to go back and look at all the arguments defending ETH. One of the strongest ones was ETH being POW. Here’s the Sauce if you rightfully want to read sources yourself and not trust the judgement of a mouth breathing snow plow polisher who watches YouTube tutorials on how to change a lightbulb. https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/shared/FIN-2013-G001.pdf If you want to firm up your own view on the matter, here’s a descent 2018 WSJ article on the issue. https://www.wsj.com/articles/worlds-second-most-valuable-cryptocurrency-under-regulatory-scrutiny-1525167000 As well as a Cointelegraph 2018 article if you don’t want to be paywalled. https://cointelegraph.com/news/it-never-was-a-security-ethereum-under-the-regulatory-spotlight

R4ID

>Isn't that what the Howey test is? the test designed in the 1930's isnt easily applied to todays technology. It needs to be "updated" >So these companies applied the Howey test in their own analysis, didn't like the results, then went whining to the SEC, "we're gonna go ahead with this stuff anyway, please tell us it's OK pretty please because if you don't tell us to stop we're going to go ahead anyway." If you look at the Ripple case. they met with the SEC in 2014 to discuss XRP and met hundreds of times between then and dec 2020 (when the SEC sued them) Ripple lost their case vs Fincen in 2015 which deems XRP to be a digital currency. So you have 2 separate government agencies claiming the same thing is something completely different with different regulations/laws. One securities laws, the other breaks MSB (money services business and BSA (bank secrecy act)currency laws somehow. hopefully you can see how it is hard to apply Howey to digital assets of today with this example. You could have lawyers telling you it isnt a security and then the SEC charges you anyways (like they've done with Ripple) >I don't think that's absurd at all. The text message evidence in this case seems to show very clearly that Bittrex did know all along that many of these products should be classified as securities. There was no need for them to ask the SEC when their own analysis resulted in them privately coaching whitepaper authors to retroactively remove securities-like language from whitepapers. Bittrex knew exactly what they were doing wrong here. I havnt looked at the specifics of this case yet so if that is true, thats a pretty bad look for Bittrex I agree. but I still have to ask, Why not Sue the Algorand foundation instead of just Bittrex themselves and then claim ALGO is a security? it seems like a bit of a power play in an attempt to muddy the waters and then take more control over this new sector instead of "to protect investors" imo.

igadjeed

> will the powers that be come after me for money laundering? If your customer is laundering money using your service, you are guilty of money laundering by not properly reporting her transactions. Without KYC, you do not have this customer's identity, which is required for anti-money laundering compliance If you do not register as a money services business, Federal and State if you're in the USA, you will be charged for that, and probably also for money laundering If you do register as a MSB, your registration is conditional on you having procedures to monitor and report money laundering. These procedures require KYC If an undercover law enforcement agent buys Bitcoin from you, and says, "This is for my drug dealing enterprise", he will charge you with money laundering https://www.justice.gov/usao-az/pr/bitcoin-trader-sentenced-41-months https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdca/pr/bitcoin-dealer-indicted-money-laundering-charges-held-without-bond https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdca/pr/man-sentenced-fraud-and-operating-unlicensed-money-transmitting-business

soks86

Fun fact. This is why gift cards are not redeemable for cash. If you could redeem a gift card then all transactions involving their purchase or sale would also require an MSB license and proper AML implementation. Mastercard, Visa, and your local big chain grocery store all have MSB licensing or work with a third party that has a license. These licenses are \_per state\_ so you need 50 of them if you want to work in all the US. New York has overriding rules for crypto which replace MSB licensing and I believe the same is true for 2 or 3 other states.

soks86

You cannot do no KYC. What you are describing is a Money Services Business so you need an MSB license and then you need to follow AML by doing KYC. [https://ciphertrace.com/glossary/money-service-business-msb/](https://ciphertrace.com/glossary/money-service-business-msb/) Some states, like Illinois, exclude crypto-to-crypto transactions from MSB but any crypto-to-fiat needs to be registered. If you Google around there are several people doing real time (single digit years) for doing exactly this.

mastertrader_777

I've read the details of dozens of these cases in the US and in every single case that I've read about, one or more of the following applies 1) the undercover agent told the bitcoin seller that the cash they are using to buy bitcoin was obtained illegally. 2) the undercover agent told the bitcoin seller that the bitcoin they are buying will be used in the commission of a crime. 3) the bitcoin seller was involved in some type of crime like purposely laundering proceeds of crime, selling drugs, or fraud. If any of those three apply, then the bitcoin seller is committing a crime and can be arrested and prosecuted. It's not illegal to sell some of your own personal bitcoin to someone else in the US. But if you continue with a bitcoin sale after an undercover agent informs you that the cash they are using to buy your bitcoin was obtained illegally or that they will be using the bitcoin in the commission of a crime, then you will be arrested. If you sell more than $10,000 worth of bitcoin to someone in the US within a 24 hour period, then you need to file a Form 8300 with the IRS within 15 days. If you're selling bitcoin as a business in the US, then you need to register with FinCEN and get a money service business licence and a money transmitter license. You also need to get a MSB license and money transmitter license from your state. It's not illegal to buy bitcoin directly from someone else in the US.

igadjeed

Not a MSB, no money laundering monitoring required Ask a lawyer whether selling for profit makes you a MSB, even though you do it rarely. I'd guess not. I assume you're not profiting by skimming from your contractors payments. More likely, making a small loss because of your seller's markup

zaphod153

they gambled, but there's an accounting trick that these MSB's are on paper worth the nominal value as they are in the HTM portfolio.

da_SENtinel

I would like to vouch for BitGet as they have been regulated by: -United States-MSB License Money Services Business: FinCEN, U.S. Department of the Treasury -Canada- MSB License Money Services Business: FINTRAC They also have a very easy on the eyes charting setup straight off of tradingview and it is easy to navigate.

soks86

I think it has to do with the APY yield. It's not really a stablecoin if there's yield, where is the yield from? That's an "expectation of profit" which just does not need to be there (except Binance was borrowing the deposits so there was a reason they ran it as a security, because people will make deposits for that APY and then profits abusing their money). Just don't give yield and there's no way it's a security, then you just need MSB registration. It would be like running an in game currency or gift card.

kwanijml

They already created two of the most potent set of laws, which have stagnated crypto into the nearly pointless speculation on speculation most people do in these giant AML/KYC approved casinos: By classifying crypto as a capital good, and putting banking/MSB regulatory requirements on the fiat on/off ramps, they've already ensured that no crypto can reasonably be used as a currency (i.e. nobody can realistically comply with the capital gains tracking and reporting requirements while using bitcoin or eth as an actual everyday spending/earning money). And so the space has stagnated. It's either going to require that somehow we gather the political will to reclassify crypto (most countries have it as a capital good or a foreign currency which requires tracking and reporting of basis and profit/loss on most or all transactions)...or else governments and central banks are going to get irresponsible enough or authoritarian enough that the masses revolt and flaunt the laws en masse; and it will be good that we have crypto there to help facilitate that and serve as a fallback to failing state institutions.

mastertrader_777

>I would have completed a transaction like that without giving it a second thought. You would have completed a transaction after the person buying bitcoin from you told you that the cash they are using to buy your bitcoin was obtained illegally or that they will be using the bitcoin in the commission of a crime? Because that's what the undercover agents do in all of these cases. If you complete the transaction after the undercover agent informs you that the cash they are using to buy your bitcoin was obtained illegally or that they will be using the bitcoin in the commission of a crime, then you have committed a crime. In every single case like this that I've read about in the US, one or more of the following applies 1) the undercover agent told the bitcoin seller that the cash they are using to buy bitcoin was obtained illegally. 2) the undercover agent told the bitcoin seller that the bitcoin they are buying will be used in the commission of a crime. 3) the bitcoin seller was involved in some type of crime like purposely laundering proceeds of crime, selling drugs, or fraud. If any of those three apply, then the bitcoin seller is committing a crime and can be arrested and prosecuted. >What is the threshold for requiring those things? If you are only selling some of your own personal bitcoin and you're not charging the bitcoin buyer a fee, then it technically doesn't matter how much you sell. But I doubt that you would want to accidentally sell a large amount of your own personal bitcoin to an undercover agent and then have to go to court and have your lawyer argue that you're not selling bitcoin as a business. It really has to be your own personal bitcoin for you to be able to legally sell bitcoin to someone in the US without an MTL and MSB license. You can't buy bitcoin from an exchange for the purpose of reselling it to someone else because then you're acting as a business and you would need a money service business license and a money transmitter license. Selling some of your own personal bitcoin to someone else is like selling some of your own personal gold to someone else. Both are legal. If you're selling gold to people as a business, then there are licenses that you need to obtain. If you're selling bitcoin to people as a business, then there are licenses that you need to obtain. You should not be charging a fee when you sell some of your own personal bitcoin to someone. If you're charging a fee, then a prosecutor can say that you're selling bitcoin as a business. If you sell more than $10,000 worth of bitcoin to someone in the US within a 24 hour period, then you need to file a Form 8300 with the IRS within 15 days. If I were to sell some of my own personal bitcoin to someone in the US, I would not sell more than $2,999 to a single person within a 24 hour period and I would not charge the buyer a fee. I would use one of the big local exchanges to determine the current market value of the bitcoin at the time of the sale and that's what I would charge the buyer. >Is bisq different than localbitcoins in that regard? No difference. The same laws apply.

disruptioncoin

That's dope, man. I remember reading about it and being so jelly, I was planning on building my own Skyhook (they're pretty simple, a bill exchanger, raspberry pi, android tablet and receipt printer). I did a project about it for one of my classes. It was still kind of up in the air if running one that only sold BTC would constitute a money transmission business (requiring an MSB license). A reasonable person would say it doesn't, but the government disagreed. Hope you held onto them sats!

kwanijml

U.S. government- [classifies crypto as capital good for taxes and forces small on-ramps and OTC sellers to comply with banking/MSB regs] "Why are you all treating crypto as a speculative investment and only exchanging on giant casinos?" [hangs securities regulation and regulatory uncertainty over the space for a decade to the point that even the biggest scammers like SBF are the ones championing formal regulation] [In order to get good liquidity in an exchange that can even feasibly fund itself without massive fees, everyone uses giant casinos outside the U.S. like FTX, and everyone predictably loses their shirts] "See?! Why would *crypto* do this? The space inherently needs government regulation!1! Crypto is the wild west!"

soks86

No arrest, just interviews. Forensic evidence suggests he didn't take any money from it so I don't think the US would prosecute. They might have earlier on, when it wasn't as clear what BTC was legally, but once BTC was accepted by a few larger business people it gets less likely law enforcement would touch it. Then it was declared a commodity and threat of prosecution for invention is pretty much a zero now. There would be people up in arms including members of the US congress. Would they harass him to make changes to the protocol? You bet. Already happens to the existing devs. Thankfully none of them have the clout and anyone who tried to take BTC in their own direction has been shut down. This includes undoing their changes as well as revoking their access rights. That said, it is sad to see how many people face prosecution for handling (buying/selling) BTC in illegal ways. Glad to see more corporate prosecution for violating securities law (even if it's civil) given how actively they enforce KYC/AML/MSB laws on individuals. Though it probably is due to the civil vs. criminal nature of the crimes... now that I think about it.

kwanijml

Bitcoin (and all other crypto), are not used much as money because government policies prevent people from being able to reasonably use crypto as money. Especially the tax classification and the MSB/banking laws applied to all crypto on/off ramps....leaving people nothing to do with crypto but speculatively trade on giant centralized casinos which predictably fail or scam. Milton Friedman likely would have been against the government interventions which have stifled bitcoin and other marker proto-monies.

kwanijml

If we're going to focus on the casino aspect of crypto, and use price as the only gauge for how well we did...then at least ask the pertinent question: How have the people done who listened to those of us evangelizing bitcoin as early as 2010 and 2011; trying to get anyone and everyone we could to invest early (or rather to at least try out the tech to understand it and hold a bit as a hedge)...how have they done compared to the people who went full buttcoin immediately and mocked and derided us? I understand that not every human being on earth will have heard enough about bitcoin to be able to have the chance to form an educated opinion before say 2014 or so, but I would bet that the vast majority of people *here*, over the age of 25, probably heard enough about it before 2014. The question is what did you do with that information? Did you immediately form a politically biased opinion? Did you take cues from some particular source or mainstream news outlets? Or did you read the white paper? Did you watch the free courses offered by Princeton University on the computer science of cryptography and bitcoin and proof of work? Did you listen to any of us begging people to research the actual history of money and banking in the u.s. and elsewhere, which calls into question the mainstream doctrines about how superior and infallible governments and central banks are? Are you even paying attention now, to how the MSB regs and tax classifications have stifled all crypto development and relegated it to centralized casinos which were always going to act the way they've been acting?

BruceBogtrotter1

Yes. They should be registered as an MSB with FinCEN in the United States. Separately, roughly half of the states have some kind of state registration as well. Not sure what kind of registration is required outside of the US/in other countries.

bobgeorge_23

I got this email from Binance U.S. today regarding their security. What do you all think? \-------------------- &#x200B; Security is our top priority We want our users to be able to invest their assets with peace of mind. Here’s what you should know about our standards and best practices: Binance.US was created to adhere to strict U.S. regulations. We never touch, trade, or lend your assets in any way. For all customer funds that are held on the Binance.US exchange, we always maintain 1:1 reserves. These funds are available to be withdrawn at any time. We are licensed in the U.S. with 43 Money Transmitter Licenses (or the statutory equivalent) and counting. Separately, we are regulated by FinCEN as a money service business or MSB. Binance is subject to regular audits by leading private and government entities. Binance.US maintains an industry-leading security program to keep your funds protected. We do not undertake proprietary trading, offer margin or take on any corporate debt. Our commitment to security starts internally. Our leadership teams have 30+ cumulative years of Department of Justice, SEC, and New York Federal Reserve Bank experience. We believe that our traders need to know this information so that they can make informed decisions about who to trade with and where to stake their assets.

circleuranus

It's actually far worse than that. Being classified as an MSB, means having to hire an IT team to support the infrastructure, a security team, compliance officers, CSRs, the list goes on and on. We're talking a couple mill annually just in payroll. The point of this bill isn't AML, that's the smoke screen. The point of this bill and its sister legislation in the EU (formally known as MICA 2.0) is to place regulatory burdens on these projects that are so steep, it kills them in one stroke of the legislative pen. It's akin to sweeping all the chess pieces off the board leaving only the king standing. This bill and many like it soon to follow, is designed to destroy Crypto at its root. Only the major players and likely the only major donors left will be managed and "controlled" until the governments can get their feet under them to take over the entire blockchain space in the interests of "national security". The absolute last thing any centralized power wants is Cryptography getting in to the hands of the average person. There's a reason CIA and NSA have people at a lot of the major universities. Especially places like MIT, CalTech, et al. This is not conspiracy or tin foil hat jargon...this is the plan and anyone who spends a few minutes researching will have seen the writing on the wall a couple years ago. God knows I've been screeching about it for awhile now. Downvoted of course...but the best revenge is vindication.

Ur_mothers_keeper

So this is almost certainly going to fail. There are too many politicians, in both major parties, that recognize that the US must remain the most competitive place for technological development. If the US essentially outlaws cryptocurrency (which is what this bill does mind you, you literally can't use cryptocurrency, only banks can, you can contract with them to use it on your behalf and anyone that enables otherwise is an illegal MSB, including someone that publishes FOSA code) then development of it will just happen elsewhere. The US can't have that, if the US loses it's forefront position in technological development then the US will fall by the wayside. This woman is wholly owned by the bankers, for those of you that buy her for the people schtick, go look at her track record: a few hurumphs and obvious deliberately failed attempts to get support from you in between endless legislation on behalf of the big banking sector. When we talk about corruption in government she's one of the biggest examples.

Escobrat

BlockFi Inc., is registered with the U.S. Department of Treasury Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (“FinCEN”) as a money services business (“MSB”). As a registered MSB, BlockFi Inc., is subject to the Bank Secrecy Act and its implementing regulations (collectively, the “BSA”) which set out the requirements imposed upon financial institutions to implement policies and procedures reasonably designed to detect and prevent money laundering and terrorist financing. Now, according to some searches, in this case, the first ones that get bailed out are the creditors, then the customers (if lucky). However you can do more research on FINCEN, and find a way.

kwanijml

It's a fair point on the surface, but what I'm getting at is not that speculation wasn't always going to be a big part of crypto (especially in the early days of bitcoin- nobody had any idea whether this thing was going to take off and develop any kind of a network effect)...and also, the regulatory uncertainty was always part of the dynamic of bitcoin, since the beginning (we did not know, but suspected that OTC markets would be put under something like MSB regs, and we assumed that the IRS and other tax authorities would probably do what they've done). The point is that these laws and regs have completely cut off any way for cryptocurrencies to have an outlet...to have that use case as a money. Leading up to 2014, we did indeed see a lot of merchant adoption and some transaction loops developing, and then that quickly died off once the tax rulings were solidified.

kwanijml

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't FTX (and I mean, the main company, not just FTX.us), having to operate under all the same money service business/AML/KYC laws as any fully regulated exchange in the u.s.? I get that neither the SEC or CFTC have been able to formally regulate crypto exchanges; so there's more wash trading, manipulation, wild leverage and derivatives, etc. But this failure of FTX (as far as we know) occurred due to actions which were already illegal for them (hence there are criminal investigations underway). SBF was championing these other regulations and more, to be imposed on the crypto exchanges industry, because for one, that wouldn't have stopped him and his Alameda research company from doing what they were doing, and two, it makes it more expensive for competition to get in to the game with him. At the end of the day, the real story is how the tax classification of crypto and the MSB regs, have left nothing legal to do with crypto except speculatively trade (i.e. nobody can comply with the tax tracking/reporting requirements if they use crypto as an everyday spending/earning money and it's illegal or at least a grey area to sell OTC, without being a licensed MSB). So the base layer of regulations has forced everybody into these giant centralized casinos.

BluntTruthGentleman

I live in Canada, in Ontario of all places. Your regulations to ours are basically meaningless. You specifically used the qualifier \*heavily\* regulated, which is just not true. I'm a financial advisor here and have working professional knowledge of both of our regulatory environments, and I can tell you now that the compliance required to put up an exchange in the US is distinct, but not stringent. It's just basic AML, AFT, KYC and tax reporting. Your MSB's have what's considered to be mostly free reign in that their reporting requirements and monitoring are minimal so long as they meet those basic criteria.

disruptioncoin

The one I used to use only required a phone number for smaller amounts. Beyond a certain amount then they require ID. I think at first it was $800, then later $400, then later I believe they started requiring ID for any amount (when selling, at least, I never bought from it). So it probably varies. There used to be a SkyHook bitcoin ATM at the mall in Burlington VT that required no ID, but it only sold bitcoin, you couldn't sell to it. It got shut down because the owner (a college kid) didn't have a MSB license though.

Right_Field4617

Exactly. A bitlicense is only to serve residents of new York and operate in that state. All other states you apply for an MSB along with a trust license (or a major bank as a fiat custodian instead of the trust license), and a crypto custodian like fireblocks for example. Bitlicense in New York is the most expensive and hard to get and strictly for New York. Finally you need to be FINCEN registered federally as a firm. I got licenses in Wyoming and Florida and going after more states so I know the processes. There is also “alternative trading platform” licenses that the sec requires under certain conditions. Bitboy is absolute garbage.

Tiny_Voice1563

No. He got convicted of both. Two separate crimes. Both convictions. “…a federal jury in Brooklyn convicted Mustafa Goklu, also known as “Mustangy,” of money laundering and operating an unlicensed money transmitting business…” That second charge is *just* for swapping crypto to fiat without a license. And yes it’s illegal to do it for profit OR even to do it “regularly” in the US without being an MSB.

nb2785

Copiosa is a registered business and just received its MSB license.

girlanarchy

He accepted a guilty plea that included his incarceration for operating an unlicensed MSB. Why did he do that? Because a criminal trial would include charging him with money laundering and violation of BSA/AML regs. The DOJs’ findings specifically called out that he was involved in related criminal activity that included knowingly facilitating money laundering and instructing a “client” who he knew was running an elaborate scam on how to structure transactions and avoid detection. The time he could serve for that activity is much more severe, hence him pleading guilty. It’s also unlikely the DOJ would’ve had eyes on his activity at all if it wasn’t related to the Nigerian lottery scam described in the DOJ’s press release, because unlicensed MSBs are extremely common and the DOJ doesn’t have the resources to go after people simply because they’re running an unregistered business of some kind.

unitys2011

You need to have a MSB (money service business) if you want to sell more than 1k per day per person. He was an unlicensed cash-to bitcoin broker

girlanarchy

Yes, I know that since I work on the reg side of crypto. There are tons of unlicensed MSBs operating out there. He’s going to jail because he was an unlicensed MSB that knowingly helped facilitate scams, including advising the Nigerian Prince scammer to tell anyone who asks (like financial institutions) that transfers between the two of them related to marketing fees. He wouldn’t have a sentence like this if he didn’t knowingly help someone launder money obtained through scamming.

unitys2011

You need to have a MSB (money service business) if you want to sell more than 1k per day per person. He was an unlicensed cash-to bitcoin broker

qpcoins

from my understanding, you need to have a MSB (money service business) if you want to sell more than 1k per day per person

HairyDelirium

Haru Invest hasn’t gotten the recognition it deserves but after recently obtaining an MSB license from U.S. FinCEN, it will have a major impact on its development.

benditbackwards

Looks really neat and easy, but have you considered the legal issues to those who will take this technology and DIY a Bitcoin ATM? I hate to be a party pooper, but don't most states and provinces require a MSB (Money Services Business) license to operate these kinds of machines?

disruptioncoin

Neat. Reminds me of the Skyhook bitcoin atm (which was also open source and easy to build yourself). Some college student in Burlington VT put one in the mall (next to a 3D printing kiosk) and was later shut down for not having a MSB license. IIRC he didn't get any fines, but they threatened to hit him hard if he didn't shut it down.

fresheneesz

I guess I get downvoted for correcting someone saying that all states require MSB licenses to sell bitcoin, and then you correct something I didn't even say. Thanks man. Thanks.

Mobile-Tap-2266

And he's wrong. States do require you to have a MSB in order to legally sell bitcoin as a business and states do issue MSBs to businesses that sell bitcoin. You also need a money transmitter license. I've done business with bitcoin sellers that are properly licensed and operating legally.

Mobile-Tap-2266

And he's wrong. States do require you to have a MSB in order to legally sell bitcoin as a business and states do issue MSBs to businesses that sell bitcoin. You also need a money transmitter license.

BforBeertory

For those wondering what crypto platforms have MSB licenses, you can check the FinCEN website and do an MSB Registrant Search: [https://www.fincen.gov/msb-registrant-search](https://www.fincen.gov/msb-registrant-search) just type in their names and you'll get your results :)

trashyrecreation16

So what does this mean for those crypto companies who have MSB licenses?

moldyballs82

Aside from Haru Invest recently getting the MSB license, The others would have needed to apply as an MSB but have been operating in the US through their app for some time. FinCEN would have started after them if they hadn't, though.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Banxa has opened its USA operating headquarters in Reno, Nevada, which will be led by Banxa's Chief Legal Officer and newly appointed USA CEO Richard Mico. Mico has begun to build out a core team in Reno whose top priority is obtaining local USA Money Transmitter Licenses (MTLs). These licenses will allow Banxa to operate compliantly as a regulated Money Services Business (MSB). *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*

greghumphries

In the United States, someone selling some of their own personal bitcoin, not as a business, is not a money service business and does not require a MSB license or a money transmitters license. The government takes things into consideration like is it their own personal bitcoin they are selling, how much bitcoin they are selling and how often they are selling when determining if they are operating as a business or not. It is currently legal for Americans to sell some of their own personal bitcoin to other people without having any licenses like a MLT or MSB license.

igadjeed

> the USA a cash transaction of certain amounts makes you a money transmitter business Selling money for money to make a profit makes you a money services business. And then, a registered MSB is required to report all transactions higher than the limit, as well as any suspicious transactions under the limit In the FBI case against Rockkoons, he was trying to avoid registering by limiting the amount of his Bitcoin sales to less than $10,000. He agreed to sell Bitcoin to an undercover agent for $9,600. The agent put $13,000 in the envelope so that the limit would be triggered

charlie_gridlock

Not a scam, we are a licensed MSB! Also unsure of how this is a bad name. It derives from our multisig tech: you have a distributed 'grid' of devices that 'lock' your crypto in an unbreakable vault.

AdBest6125

If only lawsky had regulated it like the rest of the states and put it under MSB licensing. He had to be different in an attempt to make his mark. He is not missed by NY banking sector.

plomerosKTBFFH

I'm pretty confident that Bitmart is insolvent. They were hacked a while back for quite a bit of money, and have since reopened. There hasn't been a bank-run so they're still going. But I'm still not so sure that they really had the money to reimburse the losses, more so that they're trying to make that money back from keeping things up and running like nothing happened. Much of their volume has been wash-trading and fake bot volume since they opened, so not like they've made big bank on fees and such. They also claim to have a MSB license but refuse to answer what name it's registered under since there's no Bitmart in the registry.

RC-5

FinCEN’s definition of an MSB excludes banks but yes I know what they were getting at. I just thought if the merchant code let the transaction through I’d slip by 😀

RC-5

FinCEN’s definition of an MSB specifically excludes banks, but I know I can’t win semantics with a big corporation 😀

TripTryad

It is, they say explicitly that MSB is not allowed which includes this. It works the same way most major CC cashback works. No double dipping. So no paying off CC's and getting cashback for doing so. No paying your mortgage and getting cash back for doin so, No getting money orders with the card and getting cash back for doing so. Etc etc. All of that is not allowed. And that goes for all cards of this type, if you find a way around it they will eventually find out and block your account.

agumonkey

MSB

AdGlittering4282

First things first. I’m not shilling shit, because I am as stupid as you and don’t know shit about fuck. I came across this project, the guys behind it really know how to do nice talk and talk you into their project/company. At this point I don’t know if they are sharlatans or are they legit. They do have corporation registered but it’s registered to a fucking cabin by the gas station. They do have trademarks for their blockchain and for the rest of the company’s moving parts. Fintrac and duns are also active licenses. My question would be, can sharlatans acquire such licenses, open a corp, and fuck you up? For the reference I will include links to licenses. https://steam-exchange.gitbook.io/rails-network/ https://www10.fintrac-canafe.gc.ca/msb-esm/public/detailed-information/msb-details/7b226d73624f72674e756d626572223a3136353832322c227072696d617279536561726368223a7b226f72674e616d65223a22737465616d2065786368616e6765222c2273656172636854797065223a317d7d/ Article of Incorporation Registration#: 002846823 Money Service Business & FINTRAC MSB#: M21770262 P.S. I don’t know shit about fuck.

pcvcolin

I'm not sure if you are aware, but Kraken had a limited role in the MtGox claim process, if for no other reason than that it was a reputable firm and the executives and employees were capable of helping in the process, I think. [This is a link that describes it](https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001421326-Kraken-s-limited-role-in-the-MtGox-Claim-Process). If I recall correctly, Kraken's involvement and help in the claims process with MtGox (basically to the extent Kraken could) occurred long before the Wyoming SPDI (Special Purpose Depository Institution) license was eventually applied for by Kraken and eventually approved by the Wyoming Banking Division (that approval was in late 2020), and I don't think any of the funds relating to MtGox would ever have been held in custody with Kraken (to await release) although I could be wrong. (remember, In a January 2015 interview, Kraken bitcoin exchange CEO Jesse Powell discussed being appointed by the bankruptcy trustee to assist in processing claims by the 127,000 creditors of Mt. Gox, but as time went on this role changed, see link in first paragraph of this comment.) And - the law you are asking about - Wyoming's SF0125 - became law in 2019. Which (based on my recollection) I think that there may still have been some limited Kraken involvement in MtGox claims at that time, but I don't think that it had relationship to the custody issue. (It wasn't until late 2020 that the Wyoming SPDI was approved, etc.) Now if I understand your question a different way, let's say **if Wyoming's SF0125 had existed back when MtGox died, how would that law have helped people who had btc on MtGox at that time, to ask your question in a way that emphasizes / rewords it a little to ask "how would it have been different if this law had existed back then?"** Well, MtGox was headquartered in Shibuya, Tokyo. MtGox did get a license from the U.S. (FinCen (as an MSB)), but that's it if I recall. Let's imagine for a moment that MtGox had been developed in Wyoming and had obtained a Wyoming SPDI license (that would have been impossible for Karpeles / MtGox, I think, because of the rigor of the application process). But if we assume that the application process were to have been approved, and the funds were in custody, there would have to have been 1:1 full reserves for those client funds and a mechanism so that the funds that clients could use to withdraw the funds would be fully independent from the bank's operating funds / anything that could be touched by a bankruptcy. In other words, a total financial catastrophe, even malice, would result in funds still being available for clients to withdraw. Not only that, the funds in such a system (the hypothetical "MtGox Wyoming system in the past") would be the clients' property, whereas the MtGox funds under discussion today are not technically the property of those who have made claims for them. Finally, all this would be happening with oversight of the Wyoming Banking Division. Hope that answers your question.