LONG

Strong-Nobody2257

Bitcoin does not rise in correlation to stocks. Stocks rise linearly, in accordance with the money printer, and how much our government inflates away our purchasing power. Bitcoin rises exponentially. Meaning, once we hit a certain scarcity, it will just go ballistic. The demand for bitcoin, which will continue to grow, will seek out an ever decreasing amount of bitcoin….as more institutions and LONG TERM hodl-ers hold bitcoin, the more the price has to move to make those people want to sell.  Which I for one, am not selling ANYTIME soon. I’m waiting for PARITY.

skr_replicator

Obbviously gold has a pretty nice short-term pump, while bitcoin is catching a break. But is it really performing better in the long term? WE don't have enough data for LONG long-term, but in the last 10 years, Bitcoin has appreciated a lot more value than gold, still, despite these recent events.

Squirll

That doesn't change the fallacy of trying to define things by their potential instead of the reality of their usage. Everything uses online fulfillment now for delivering goods over brick and mortar, but that doesn't change the fact billions of dollars burned in the dot com era that were invested in "potential" but only the people with Amazon stock came out on top. The world wasn't ready mentally or technologically for what everybody was trying to do back then. Here we are like thirty years later and its a very different story. But very little of anything that had "potential" actually got a chance to make that into "kinetic" I have confidence that Bitcoin is the Amazon of this metaphor, but were still a LONG ways away from society and governments actually allowing bitcoin to exist as a decentralized currency. As long as everyone's just buying and selling bitcoin to gain FIATS, its true potential will never be realized. Bitcoin hasn't reached its potential, but potential is not a guarantee. So I hold bitcoins value and definition in relation to the reality of its usage, not what I wish or hope it will be used for in the future. I'm absolutely open to changing its definition when that matches the reality of its existence in the market though.

BTCWallahFXEmpire

think he went 10x LONG $100K on BTC during the Monday morning poop.

Calm-Expert-5414

Doesn't matter what anyone had purchased at to this point in time assuming you did so as a LONG term ( 5 to 15 yrs ) investment time frame . The only ones who need worry themselves with the everyday noise and day yo day , week to week and month to month price fluctuations are the GAMBLERS . If swing / day , sports gamblers buy bitcoin ... that's on them . That's when timing means something.

X-Ploded

LONG ALL IN !

churito69

I would think that it will, at some point in the next 12 months, go back over previous highs to $124k+, which will give you a good return if you sell at that point, if that is what you are looking for. If you are looking for a LONG-term hold, in reality, any price around now is fine. $90k or $100k, as the reason to buy for that long-term hold is that you think it will go many times higher.

Veganarchyst

It is and will still be what we wanted, but there is going to be a LONG in-between time where it looks like financial institutions are in control The biggest problem? On and off ramps for using #BTC Since these are capitalist centralized corporations, there is no way for BTC to be it's own thing and separate from the corrupt systems Until we choose to use and are able to use BTC as currency completely disconnected from any Fiat money That is the big change that needs to happen for #Bitcoin to become what it was intended to be, and we can all leave the slavery promoting and corruption certainty of fiat

RosieDear

In theory we (the American People) should have went on a general strike and filled the streets LONG ago. In reality- we are the frog or lobster put in the pot of warm water which is heated up slowly.....until it is too late. If anyone listed out all the things this dude and his admin has done...and asked (years back) "Would Americans Allow This"?, we'd laugh and say "of course not". Reality differs from perception.

RamoneBolivarSanchez

And yet it’s going to still take a LONG time with halvings.

Always_Love_0004

yea damn rite. look. On this discussion, there's some contradictory things that don't really fit in. 1. Retail represent x% of the market? 2. So retail don't matter 3. Yet the conjecture exists: "We make ppl Hodl, we sell bla blabla" 4. Question: Lol juz how many retail ppl u need to entice to buy n eat up the load of sell orders, take profits, open piles, various exchanges for this other dude to go "YAY I GET TO SELL NOW" Oh ya thats assuming this same dude, bought it all LONG AGO with an average cost of xxx. Well the more plausible one is that the insti(s) have started doing private approaches to oldcoiners for a said price (acquisition cost kaching). Discounted from market value. Started ETFs to get mass retail adoption in (ka ching). Insti earns execution fees. Same insti can now do a rug pull, assuming of course the adoption manage to push prices to their targeted returns.

Plastic-Friendship24

LONG leverage x20

Smooth_Pianist485

Bitcoin is the LONG game. If you’re looking for life changing gains, you should be prepared to purchase 1 whole bitcoin and hold it for 10 years.

Weary_Strawberry2679

Nah. Just hold LONG-term assets for as much as it meets your financial goals, like BTC, ETH, Index Funds and good real estate in high-demand areas. Patience is everything in the market. If you're not in for a decade or two, you're too fast on the trigger. Good luck.

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Post is by: oak1337 and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoMarkets/comments/1plgn6f/hedera_hashgraph_hbar_versus_anyone_tech_debate/ There will be no TLDR. If you want to learn, READ. If you wish to debate me on the technological merits of your chain versus Hedera, you gotta read the whole thing before the debate me. Sorry. The claim/thesis: **"Hedera is the best DLT there ever was or will be technologically.** Gossip about Gossip with ABFT Virtual Voting is a fundamental breakthrough in Computer Science, achieving (asynchronous) **ABFT** consensus/security at **unlimited scale with COQ Proof.** It is more **decentralized** NOW versus others, **according to its Gini Coefficient and Theil Index,** and it becomes MORE decentralized as it scales and transitions to permissionless nodes. This is different different than other networks who typically get more centralized as they scale All nodes added Add more nodes, add more TPS - it is a linear relationship. Hedera is future proof due to its perfect ABFT consensus as the foundation AND it has its source code donated to Linux Foundation, the ONLY public DLT to do that, which is the base of almost all modern computing. Hashgraph is modular by design, with "plug n play" for everything built upon it, and a decisive and motivated Council. It will never be beaten technologically, and is mathematically perfect fundamentally". AI didn't like this. Most people don't like this. After a long debate, commanding the AI to be adversarial, it waved the white flag. I had it summarize our LONG conversation so that I wouldn't have to repeat it all, and so that it flowed and was coherent. Below is the summary. After reading, please challenge me on anything. I will not be using AI to answer any questions or provide rebuttals. I only used AI to challenge me and to summarize the long conversation. This is a fantastic request. To summarize our in-depth, technically sophisticated conversation about the Hashgraph consensus mechanism (Gossip About Gossip, ABFT Virtual Voting) and its long-term future-proof nature into a compelling Reddit post, I will frame it as a technical counter-argument to common L1 critiques, focusing on the mathematical superiority we discussed. I will use the Google Search tool to ensure the current technical terminology and latest publicly available data (like max TPS and ABFT confirmation) are absolutely current, making the argument as strong as possible. Here is the plan for the search queries to ensure factual accuracy for the post: 💡 The Endgame of DLT: Why Hashgraph (HBAR) is Architecturally Future-Proof There's a fierce debate in the DLT space right now about Layer 2s and the Blockchain Trilemma. Many believe the only way to scale is by processing transactions off-chain, accepting a sacrifice in security or decentralization. However, a deeper dive into the math and architecture reveals that Ethereum's scaling strategy is a compromise, whereas Hedera Hashgraph's L1 is an optimal, future-proof solution that sidesteps the Trilemma's limitations entirely. Here is why HBAR’s underlying technology is arguably the best foundational DLT in existence: 1. The Mathematical Perfection: ABFT Consensus The central piece of this argument is the consensus algorithm: Asynchronous Byzantine Fault Tolerance (ABFT): Hedera achieves ABFT, which is the highest, mathematically-proven guarantee of security and finality a distributed system can achieve. It ensures consensus will be reached accurately, even if the network is asynchronous (messages delayed/out of order) AND up to one-third of validators are malicious. The Contrast: Many popular blockchains rely on weaker forms of consensus (like Probabilistic or Practical BFT). Hedera provides absolute finality in 3-5 seconds, meaning a transaction can never be reversed once final. 2. Efficiency at the Speed of Physics The Hashgraph protocol is designed to operate at the theoretical limits of efficiency: "Gossip About Gossip": Nodes only exchange new information and the digital signature of who they heard it from, minimizing bandwidth. Virtual Voting (Zero Votes): Consensus is achieved without sending any actual votes. Instead, nodes calculate (virtually vote) on what everyone else would have voted based on the shared "gossip history." This is the ultimate efficiency—consensus with the minimum possible communication overhead. The Outcome: The system is 100% efficient (no wasted "stale blocks") and incredibly fast, achieving 10,000+ TPS (throttled) on the L1 without L2s, and is designed to scale linearly with sharding. 3. Decentralization by Power, Not Just by Count The Hashgraph structure inherently solves the problem of power concentration that plagues many Proof-of-Stake systems: Equal Consensus Power: While Hedera starts with a Governing Council (known entities), the power is equally distributed among those nodes. This contrasts sharply with systems like Ethereum, where staking concentration (Lido, Coinbase, etc.) can centralize the consensus power among a handful of entities, creating a low Nakamoto Coefficient and a clear attack vector. The Defense: The current model offers highly reliable, high-integrity governance. As the network transitions to permissionless nodes, its unique sharding architecture will be designed to preserve that distributed power across thousands of new, open nodes. 4. The L2 Compromise vs. The L1 Solution Our conversation concluded that the Ethereum scaling strategy is structurally weaker: ETH L1's Tradeoff: Maximized decentralization and security required sacrificing L1 scalability. L2's New Tradeoffs: L2s (Rollups) fix the speed, but introduce a new layer of centralization risk (centralized sequencers, complex bridges) and more complexity ("tradeoffs on top of tradeoffs"). Hashgraph's Solution: Hashgraph achieved Scalability, ABFT Security, and Distributed Power all on the L1 from the start. Conclusion: Why Hashgraph is Future-Proof The technology is built on a mathematically optimal foundation. Nothing can be more secure than ABFT, and little can be more efficient than Virtual Voting operating with minimal bandwidth. As hardware improves, Hedera simply gets faster, moving at the edge of computational physics. Hedera isn't trying to patch a slow, linear system with complex, centralized layers. It simply solved the Blockchain Trilemma on the L1 itself. The rest of the industry is playing catch-up to Hashgraph's original 2017 design. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

SyrupyMolassesMMM

Its a same because I do think the concept of NFT’s is an interesting one. For authentication, or proof of ownership of real world assets, its a pretty cool concept. for memorabilia and ticketing I also think its pretty interesting. Its also good for circumventing financial regulations where they havent caught up yet. But ultimately, these all rely on massive corporate and government adoption and investment. I think a lot of this stuff will happen. But a LONG way in the future. By which time the concept will be completely different.

wo0two0t

I don't think btc is going to get you crazy returns anymore unless you hold for quite a while if your average is ~90k. This sub also doesn't take into account the ticking time bomb that is the US economy, so you might have to hold for a LONG time. Past cycles don't mean anything anymore because the masses already learned about btc, they've already been through rounds of hype, halvings matter less and less, and it's becoming less volatile. Btc isn't dead but I think people will soon learn DCA'ing and forgetting about price may not be the way to go anymore.

Astropin

Anytime there are quick moves (up or down) it's due to LONG or SHORT leveraged positions getting liquidated.

WickedHero69

where is the LONG, i dont see any long, Scammers

tzimek

I got a pet project I was playing with - I am monitoring the top 30 trading wallets from hyperliquid (with weekly rotations - to pick the best 30). I got an alerting signals there, with a lot of data I am storing and gathering. I am curious if this is something people would want to pay for? What should I add there? I am curious if this is useful for anyone outside of me ;) Below an update that happens every 1h: **📊 TOP 30 TRADERS POSITIONING REPORT** Date: November 29, 2025 08:02 UTC ═══════════════════════════════════════ **💰 COMBINED CAPITAL: $184M** 📈 Net Position: SHORT $587.2M (1% long / 99% short) **═══ SMART MONEY SCORECARD ═══** **─── BTC ───** 📊 1 long, 21 short → Net: SHORT $364.5M 📍 LONG Avg Entry: $91,030 📍 SHORT Avg Entry: $101,690 (range: $89,967-$112,565) 💰 Aggregate P&L: ✅ $+45.2M (+12.4%)    LONG: 0/1 winning (0%)    SHORT: 20/21 winning (95%) 🎯 Key Levels:    Support (long entry): $91,030    Resistance (short entry): $101,690 (... few more coins...) ═══════════════════════════════════════ **🔥 MOST POPULAR POSITIONS** (by total volume): 1. **BTC**: 1 long, 21 short → Net: SHORT $364.5M    Consensus: ❌ BEARISH (95% short) (.. + few more...) ═══════════════════════════════════════

buwefy

It might be, but it's going to be a LONG, DEEP, deep

DocInABox33

What are you talking about GDP is growing and Atlanta has it at almost 4% next quarter… This is not a story of weak economy but the LONG and LAGGING effects of inflation. People aren’t experiencing a slow economy but the FULL MAGNITUDE of 2022-23’s inflation. This is why every FED hates inflation bc you can’t undo it like you can with everything else. Budget deficit, reversible if you spend less! Not enough income, increase taxes/grow more! Rate of change spikes… oh damn if you do something it could get worse but if you don’t do something it could get worse what to do what to do… NEVER LET INFLATION GET OUT OF CONTROL IN THE FIRST PLACE!

krudeo

Well, the error is there, and I see that you have good possibilities. First, you didn't lose everything and that will always allow you to stay afloat. Second, you have savings and time My recommendations are several. First, if you would still try to make money, the only valid option that I see for a limited period of time is Trading (be careful, not buying in Spot). That is, the purchase and sale of financial instruments such as cryptocurrencies with the aim of obtaining a profit from variations in their price. And you can make money whether the price goes up or down: ▶️ ​If you think the price is going to rise, you open a position in LONG (long). You buy the asset and hope to sell it for more. You win when the price goes up. ▶️​If you think the price is going to fall, you open a SHORT position. You sell the asset (that you borrow) and hope to buy it back cheaper. You win when the price goes down. Taking that into account, it opens up a path in which you can take 1000 dollars, leverage it at 10x, and try to make a daily profit of 100 dollars (1% movement at 10x gives you 10% to get 100 USD) Sounds easy doesn't it? 100 USD a day, for a month they give you 3000 USD. Now comes the but. You must learn and to reach that level you will need months of study, a lot of rehearsal and tests (you don't need to rehearse with 100 USD, you can do it even with 1 USD) The journey is long and difficult but your money is totally recoverable. It only depends on you deciding to study and learn risk management, strategies and how to trade. I hope that's helpful to you, and if you need an educational source to get started, I can recommend a couple.

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Post is by: OhMyCoin and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: https://medium.com/@kerya/a-hedge-fund-playbook-whats-really-behind-bitcoin-s-523m-etf-outflow-a7369c66917b Who’s selling at these levels? And why? Hedge funds have been running a massive structural arbitrage: SHORT MicroStrategy / LONG Bitcoin. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

uTurnSpecialist

Let us know when u dump your position so we can all go LONG

anon-187101

The mistake you're making is to ascribe a Bitcoin HODLer mindset to shitcoins. They are all going to 0 against BTC in the long-run - *that* is the only signal that matters. LONG Bitcoin, SHORT shitcoins.

Catharsiscult

Weak hands don't make money. That is why I trade only what I can afford to lose. I can sit around and wait for a LONG time. And I am not rich. Trading to live isnt viable on the market's timeline. NFA

MaxxGawd

Here's some ideas I want to mention: 1. BTC has a logarithmic growth pattern. That means that for each cycle, the rate of growth is decreasing and we see diminishing returns. Of course this is obvious as 2017 cycle was 20x from Previous ATH, 2021 cycle was 3x and now we didn't even hit 2x. If this pattern were to continue all the people who say $1M BTC would not see this number for more than a decade. 2. BTC must have a pattern where most people lose money. That means it must fulfill it's 4 year cycle pattern and still cause everyone to lose despite how OBVIOUS it is when you are near the bottom and when you are near the top. So if EVERYONE knew that OBVIOUSLY 2022 was the Bear year and 2025 is the bull year, how can most people be unhappy and losing money? Furthermore, if EVERYONE knew that the \~540 days since halving is so far 100% accurate metric how can most people still lose? Simple, you make the 540 day top "not parabolic/euphoric" enough so that everyone goes all in and says $200k and then loses. $200k is unrealistic because of the logarithmic model. $200k would be to imply that this cycle has similar returns to last cycle (\~3x from previous ATHs) and that would go against the diminishing returns. So of course, you make the top \~$120k, even though it's EXTREMELY consistent with the logarithmic pattern AND the 4 year cycle timing pattern most people still lose money. So you basically have two patterns that are extremely accurate in predicting BTC cycles, the 4 year cycle and the logarithmic diminishing returns pattern. These patterns literally GIVE you the ballpark price AND the time when it will happen without fail. Talking about retail and institutional investors and whales is actually pretty pointless in the grand scheme because all the 4 year cycle patterns so far hold true WITHOUT even needing to look at this data, so why base any conclusions on it when there is a clear working model that has yet to fail? The reason why people bring up all this stuff and try to look beyond the 4 year cycle and logarithmic pattern is due to the psychology of market cycles chart. Every time there is the beginning of a bear market, people are in DISBELIEF and come up with 10000 reasons why this time is different, we won't have a bear market and it's just a dip. People say "oh QE is beginning" or something about retail or institutions. ALL of that HAS been priced in for a LONG time. Rumors of QE beginning came as early as end of last year. ETFs and institutions have been in BTC for years. Fiat currency has been declining for decades. Nothing new here, everything is priced in. All of these things give you $120k. That's the price. An asset came from less than $1 to $120k in a little over a decade because of these things. That's already pretty insane. The question now people need to ask themselves is risk:reward. Let's say there is 50:50 chance that we have BTC bear market here for 50:50 chance that 4 year cycle is broken and we go to a new higher high. The risk:reward looks really bad here. 50% you go down to \~40k or even 24k as 80% drawn down in bear is possible. On the other hand, perhaps you can get to \~150k. This is a 50% move from here. You're not getting $200k as we talked about the algorithmic model in this 50:50 coinflip. The odds of 200k or above within the next year is basically sub 10% as it has no basis in any existing pattern or model for BTC. So you're essentially risking 80% for 50% profit? That makes no sense and that is why whales are selling and everyone is bearish. The math just doesn't add up. FURTHERMORE, you can sell now, and get an almost GUARANTEED \~5x on the next cycle, reliably buying 40k btc in 2026-2027 and selling it at \~200k in 2029. So ya I mean the OBVIOUS more with lots of patterns and confluence that is more than 90% guaranteed to get you 4-5x returns is to sell now, buy in the middle of the bear, and then sell again in 4 years.

Early-Damage-6792

stop trying to get rich quick. thats your problem. build skills and leverage crypto. LONG TERM wealth

LooseSpot4597

I sold all my holdings a few weeks ago ($1.3 mil worth, I am in my mid twenties in UK where it is far harder to get rich than USA as well). No regrets and sold based on the logic of halving cycle, general fear in overall market and the fact we'd just had a massive bull. I'm waiting for a year when I'm hoping to join the 21 club or higher based on pessimistic estimates with halvings. I don't see any convincing arguments why the halving cycle isn't going to be true this time and if I'm wrong and it shoots up a load more then that's not too bad as well since it means we'll have some more years of ridiculous gains. As always the people who will get fucked over are those who panic sell when it actually crashes and those who sold far too early. Even if you time it badly and just wait you will be ok, I have no doubt bitcoin will continue to succeed LONG TERM but the time to buy is when it's crashed, forgotten and everyone is saying it's dead not near the ATH after a massive bull run.

Saylor_Moonboi

Even as a Bitcoin and stock lover, I think the inflation fear is overblown, at least in the NEAR term, and both stocks and Bitcoin are overvalued. Now in the LONG term, the debt and deficits are unsustainable, and SOMETHING will happen to unwind this issue, and if that thing is inflation, and most people think it will be, it will make assets far more valuable than they are now. Think December 2017. Was Bitcoin overvalued at $20,000 ? Yes, but only for THAT near term, of course, a little while after the covid moneyprinter madness hit, $20,000 a Bitcoin was a screaming bargain, and I think we are in a similar place now. Everything financial comes in cycles, first comes the greed, then the fear, but then the greed comes back harder, and the line keeps going up in the long term. Bitcoin will never deliver the returns it once did, because new asset classes only cost $0.003 each once in their life, and that time has passed. The stock market is clearly overvalued, or AI will reach the singularity and the human race will go full post-scarcity. Of the two, I'm thinking overvalued is FAR more likely. Even when tech has changed the world for the better, think railroads, there were also massive bubbles in the market at the same time. The rich are ALWAYS getting richer, that is just how investing works, that is ALWAYS how investing works, which is why people that can defer pleasure usually do far better financially than the rest of us. The old industrial middle class, where one good factory job could support an entire family, and you could buy your starter home for 3 grapes, is ALSO gone, like that $0.003 Bitcoin. That was a historical anomaly created by rapid technological change and the destruction of Europe in WW 2. The reality of this interconnected world is that there is just far too much skilled and unskilled labor to earn a decent wage in a normal job anymore. The only way to live well in overpriced America is to either save your pennies and invest to generate your spending money, move to some cheap-o third world country, or be some kind of business owner or influencer. Thinking that you will graduate high school and be able to support anything more than an outdoor cat is just wishful thinking nowadays. :(

magus-21

>A currency for larger investments (real estate, ships, oil rigs). Absolutely! Absolutely not. People who buy those things want stable prices at the time of purchase. They don't want to risk a 5% drop in a currency's value mid-flight due to an unfavorable tweet. >I also buy travels and accommodations on Travala.com with mine. LOL, out of curiosity I checked that site. Since you were talking big talk about big purchases, I chose a sufficiently luxurious hotel as an example: the Peninsula in Hong Kong. I also picked a date range of Jan 10 to Jan 18 for two adults in one room. The result on Travala? $726/night. The result on the Peninsula's official site, according to Google? $538/night. For shits and giggles I looked up a cheaper hotel in another major city, the Hilton London Kensington, from March 15-22 (no significance to the date, I just figured it's a low demand time) * Travala price: $165/night * Hilton official site price: $137/night And I checked a mid-sized business hotel in a small city meant for business travelers. I picked Omaha Marriott Downtown in Omaha, Nebraska, from May 10 to May 16. * Travala price: $317/night * Marriott official site price: $267/night You are getting fleeced, my friend. Now, you might be ok paying a 20% premium for the principle of paying in crypto, but I'm not. >Bitcoin however is the best savings vehicle ever. A sublime store of value and it will only become increasingly obvious to even the densest among us. The same can be said for literally any bubble stock from the last 15 years. Because of exactly that: **it's only been 15 years.** People who claim "Bitcoin has the best returns ever" are counting the years when there were literally only a few thousand or even a few hundred people who even had access to it, let alone people who had the economic acumen to know to trade it on an open market, and then comparing those early days of Bitcoin to assets with LONG histories (gold) or companies who went public YEARS after their founding. >I am confident that you and I some day will have this same exact conversation, when BTC retracts from $1,2M to merely $1M and you throw another celebration on Reddit. We'll see. We're at a stage of capitalism where bubbles rule returns, and BTC hasn't been the top dog in that regard in over ten years even compared to regular equities.

Budget_Eye5861

You mean after you hold the coins for a year then begin to sell? I just BANKED (2) years of income so I can rebuy next year and hold that for 12 months, which is a LONG position on taxes. so - in 2028 I will run out of cash and need to start selling some to live on. In 2028 we'll start to see some good gains again. The (4) year cycle is a thing and it's not dead :-P

thegingi12

Hey Jess! Appreciate the feedback, not really looking for to be a LONG TERM donor but just to take advantage of their first month bonus!! Ive been reading on how to approach it before & after the process!

INVEST-ASTS

The Democrats are the ones who have voted against the CR to fund the government and all of the social programs They want an ADDITIONAL $1.5T for their support if the CR. They are trying to use a short term CR to establish what is otherwise LONG TERM policies. The polls show that 62% - 75% of the American people understand this, but the far left has seized control of the D Party.

MoccaLG

the headline is kind of leaving out that those "LONG" traders are some prats doing 100x leverage

Traditional-Till9998

Supply isn't really shrinking that much though. The supply on market has changed from 3M to 2.4M bitcoins from previous lows in 2023 to today. Which seems extreme and may indicate things on a macro level, but what happens in the short term when people dump as they typically do post halving? Tradeable supply will increase, price will drop. IRA investors do provide some stability, but it's not like they can't sell their ETF and get a different asset. Current price * current supply at that price = $258.5 trillion suppressing the market. We have a LONG way to go before that point. (Math not exact as price would rise if more are bought but hopefully you get my point). Right now it seems like retail is buying but not fast enough. What will change is when there is crypto banking that actually works or government adoption for their fed reserves. Governments aren't going to FOMO into this peak unless Trump or China makes a big move here. I'm just seeing an article from France that plans to buy 420K BTC, over the next 7 to 8 years. This move is also telegraphed and we will be able to see it in advance play out. Others will do the same, but it's likely we see our retail drop to 65-70k and governments will drive the next bull run. I don't think we see as low of a drop just like we have seen a lower ceiling. There is way more stability from ETF buyers.

TheBigGrief

To late for what? Too late to turn CPU mined BTC into a fortune? YES Too late to sell Pizza for BTC and get rich? YES Too late to parlay a one time $1,000 investment into an early retirement? YES Too late to DCA into an asset that will substantially beat the S&P 500 over the next 10 years? Nope, not at all! The lottery ticket days are LONG gone but Bitcoin has a very good probability of being a huge out performer over the next decade. If you look at a typical regression model for the "fair value" of Bitcoin and extrapolate it out over the next year, you are looking at a CAGR of about 40%-50% and it stays deep in the double digits for a long time. I don't know about you, but I don't have too many alternatives where I can reasonably expect that kind of performance. At some point, Bitcoin will reach a point of maturity where you only get a few percent per year tops. Yes, at that point it will be too late. It's not too late in 2025.

slartibartjars

Trust me. Just buy what you can afford over time. The SECRET. It is not a big secret but for some reason it seems to be the hardest part is to KEEP YOUR SAVINGS FOR AT LEAST 10 YEARS. Bitcoin rewards LONG TERM investment NOT speculation.

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Post is by: Dapper_Perception_63 and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: https://x.com/projectxcnqr?s=21 PROJECTXCNQR CRYPTO COIN HAS NOW LANUCHED‼️ THIS IS TO A BETTER VERSION OF MYSELF - TO A MOVEMENT WE ALL WANT & CAN TRUST♨️ LONG-TERM PROJECT-COMMUNITY BASED‼️ GZqBEPfdFDvKrtJkhNpNB4e1K361Ty5XPWpACKTFpump *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

Fancy-Chicken-3730

Bitcoin will probably make it in the positive for October, pretty much everything else has a LONG way to go, Alts are still mostly way down.

Full-Commercial7538

How can you say step back & look for truth when taking any type of macro view shows we have been in a bullish trend & we are still waiting for over 150 ETFS , THE BIG TJING will be the market structure act *( clarity act ) , which should extend this with the business cycle giving us the 5 year market . I love the bearishness & posts like this becayse ive been waiting over a decade to hear bitcoin crashed to 100000$ lmao....... Its like all these clowns who thinks trump has been bad for crypto when our last presudent had every project in a legit chokepoint . ANYONE WHO IS BEARISH AT ALL LOOOK AT THE USA SEIZING 15 BILLLION IN BITCOIN & HOLDING JUST WKS AGO & LOOK AT ANY LONG TERM CHART.... We are a maturing market now and no covid checks to every person on the planet so obviously we cant pump like 2021 ....... Simple math we have 100 million to multiple billion to trillion dollar market caps now so WAKE UP & THINK LONG TERM !!

CreditSea7097

There is something to be kept in mind. In gold’s advantage. Gold’s value is not contingent on technology. If technology fails, due to war or other reasons, gold holds value while btc loses it. The increase in the supply of gold is also a point for gold and not against it. With BTC, some of the supply can get lost or become unaccessible. This makes it scarce to a point where it can have negative consequences. BTC > Fiat. 1000%. But over the LONG run, im talking over 50 years, gold will always win. It will protect your wealth no matter what. Bitcoin might grow it quicker as we leave fiat behind.

JOxen89

The hegends that push this project keep their head down and keep pushing and building. The future is for builders. MAX LONG HEGE!

DespairWillOvercome

180.000.000 LONG 15x Leverage, might be his other Wallet, ignore the short position, we are going up https://hyperdash.info/trader/0xc2a30212a8ddac9e123944d6e29faddce994e5f2

Careless-Silver9223

I couldn’t explain it better, fine job. Only other thing is the … good grief … I’m on the wrong board .. ok, so I’ll repost it the Kaspa board & note it pertains to all tokens … keyword - LONG term

A3333Z

LONG term it will hit $1M, you are fine

Quantum_Pineapple

This is the exact time to be loading the fuck up on BTC and if you're not you're either new here or haven't been paying attention to what BTC does OVER THE LONG GAME. Even with this dip we are over 50% up from today last year. Good luck on any other class giving you those gains lmao.

radiocrime

Oh my god, people, this is NOT A DIP! This is healthy volatility. This is Bitcoin literally being Bitcoin. It just has to be new people in here that haven’t gotten their head around the idea of volatility. Good all intents and purposes, this Bitcoin has been going sideways for a LONG TIME now. In my book, anywhere from $90k-$125k is pretty fucking sideways. That’s a totally normal range. These $5 and $10k “dips” aren’t anything.

CwTrucker42069

I think I go short Sunday evening, wait for 2 days, then LONG after that

DepartmentNo9197

You were right when you asked if it was from making trades. Yes, this gentleman appears to have had a LONG position open on BTC. When the price plummeted, he was liquidated. Meaning his BTC holdings determined the price he would be liquidated at plus and cash or other crypto he has. He was honestly in no "real threat" unless something like this happened. And unfortunately, this does happen. This was clear insider trading for the world to see with the Trump post about tariffing China. The timing was too perfect

-Belon-

You compare price points to context they exist in. Unless you are in for a true LONG hold, context change matters to you a lot.

FlagFootballSaint

I give you a hint: There is even more „up and down“ to come: The Trump family buys LONG - the next day Donold announces world peace and that he will remove all tariffs - Crypto immediately shoots UP After that: The Trump family buys SHORT - the next day Donold announces war against (insert random country) and that he will reinstate all tariffs - Crypto immediately crashes DOWN rinse - repeat

Gaia4495

I bought £800 worth last week when it was £96k now it’s £83. I lost £250 overnight. I’m not worried about the dip because that’s what BTC does. I know by Xmas it was be back up and over £100k - which is why I’m in it at all. Buy the ‘dip’. Hodl. DCA. We are not here for a good time - we’re here for a LONG time.

AU-n-Time

It’s just a blip on the Bitcoin radar! All of the unknowns with the economy, US markets, global markets, ongoing tariffs, unresolved China issues, Fed shutdown, and the list goes on. Ignore it, just HODL, doing this will be the easiest and safest money you have ever made. BTC is LONG term, it’s a true investment not some shit coinery, or manipulated investments. Just HODL and watch the fireworks!

VariatCA

Then as soon as they touch the account, word spreads that "ANCIENT WHALE ACCOUNT FINALLY AWAKENS, WHICH HOLDS 95% OF THE REMAINING LONG-LOST SUPPLY!" And the market dumps 99.99% on the news lol

ECore

The tariff war started LONG before Trump and the US was getting completely wrecked before his supposed "war".

Past_Negotiation7248

Not everyone needs to listen to Dave Ramsey. You Definitely need too. Reality: Your gonna have to live below your means for a LONG while to get back where you were...and at 18 that will suck.

DBRiMatt

We are now even further ahead in the future!! My advice. to those peasants stuck in the past. Go LONG!!!

btc_marshmallow_test

I watched it hit $1,000 the first couple times; we've come a LONG way.

CUbuffGuy

So funny people constantly bring this up… we can migrate to quantum safe encryption long long LONG before we are able to crack SHA256. The way encryption schemes work is that it is always trivially easy to increase complexity, while going backwards is always magnitudes of complexity larger. The downside is that it generally slows down whatever process you are running encryption on. By the time we have computers that can break SHA256, we will have more than enough compute to perform well on quantum safe encryption. The methods already exsist, they are just cumbersome in our current age.

BitcoinIsJesus

I stopped listening to ANY predictions, especially the ones that talk as if they KNOW. Everybody is full of either shit or hopium. Do your homework, know that bitcoin can realistically only go up LONG term and ignore all this short term prediction noise.

TurkishBitcoiner

The price is literally at the ATH we were at few months ago and the fear and greed shows 32 = fear, the RSI on the DAILY chart is almost below 30, it's around 30.9 right now and the most bullish two months are on the way with more rate cuts with an expanding M2 money supply. This price, the current sentiment on price is in my opinion in the LONG TERM is VERY VERY BULLISH point to buy. Personally I bought about 3k euro worth of BTC right now, I think we are going up a lot more after this for few more months before a POSSIBLE bear market in which I will continue to DCA.

Fishherr

[Link To Trading View: ](https://www.tradingview.com/x/jjv3rPVw/) Hopefully that makes sense in there. The white lines I drew are the crosses for the Cycle Tops The Notes speak for themselves. Every single time there is a halving, the market corrects roughly 1 year post halving. That's your time to rebid LONG / Add. 50w is Orange (Stay above this, bullish. Retest it at start of bull market, or during the 1 year post halving year dump. 2 weeks below = bear market.) 200w is Blue (Previous Market ATH Crossing Indicator) 300w is Purple (cycle bottoms)

harpocryptes

>Over last 8 years, which is a LONG ASS time in hi-tech, ethbtc price has been 0.048. Which means people have lost like 20% on eth compared to btc if they held on to eth If you chose 9 or 6 years or 4 months, eth is up 100% against btc. See how easy it is to cherry-pick to fit your preconception?

parakite

Over last 8 years, which is a LONG ASS time in hi-tech, ethbtc price has been 0.048. Which means people have lost like 20% on eth compared to btc if they held on to eth ( or did a DCA). So whats the point of all this 'development'? The 'developers' (centralized people) are giving you a hint. The internal name of this 'upgrade' is 'fuck all the eth bagholders' if you haven't gotten the hint. I will stay away.

hawtdiggitydawgg

Yes. But again the network effect. You could buy Meta/facebook stock for $770 with 2B daily active users or you could buy some obscure no name social media company with 20M daily active users for whatever price multiple less than Meta. YES, you might see more growth potential from the smaller no name social media, but unless that other social media company offers something significantly different and better than facebook then will it have the staying power and LONG term growth potential as Meta/Facebook? Tiktok is a great successful example of a small (at one point) company disrupting Meta/facebook with their short form videos and an A+ algorithm that FB didn't offer. However how many 100s to thousands of other social media companies have tried to crack into FBs marketshare unsuccessfully. If you believe that you or others could pick the next crypto assets that eats into bitcoins marketshare based on its tech being a better commodity than bitcoin, then by all means. But Bitcoins tech has never been hacked, is already great and proven itself over 16 years, and will be tough to overseat. Something that just replicates bitcoin won't beat or compete in anyway with bitcoin, it would need to substantially improve upon the tech AND investment thesis. The true investment thesis of Bitcoin is it's capped supply. I encourage you to continue to learn and as it seems you're missing some key points around value. I wish you luck in your investment endeavors. Again i don't mean to be preachy or anti other investments, but I just strongly believe bitcoin is worth spending much more time learning about and analyzing then so quickly dismissing for something "cheaper".

CantaloupeCamper

My neighbor was big into crypto currency ... LONG ago. I assumed he did well as after a while he had no job to speak of and was dong his part supporting his family ... presumably. But then not long ago he vanished, wife isn't talking much (i'm not pushing her), myself and folks around the neighborhood help them out as we can. Duno what happened.

LegendaryJohnny

Idk but BNB is not discussed here enough while its doing LONG term wave. Bnb is my biggest regret on 2017. I had around 15k, I was deciding what to buy. Binance was already well known exchange. BNB was for 1 dollae. I bought shitcoin OMG foe 12.5 dollars and got scammed by japanese scammer and naive Vitalik hyping up this OMG shitcoin. I lost all those money. I think I wouldnt hold BNB for 8 years till 900, I know myself, but I would be probably in much better position in life if I decided to invest in it. Biggest regret. Second biggest was selling 2300 UNIswap tokens for all time low price.

annonnnnn82736

it’s all about readjusting throughout the YEARS this shit isn’t ooo number go up money increase must sell now, it’s more “are trading news indicating confidence in institutions and businesses to guarantee LONG TERM PROFIT if Google staked for 100,000 sol, they wouldn’t unstake at 100,200 so why do you think a 100 dollar increase would be substantial? on top of that lockup periods take THREE DAYS because the market is beyond volatile, it’s SO SENSITIVE that one person unstaking a huge amount (eg google) would literally strip your 1000 eth to 500 eth within seconds please do more research asking questions like this understand structure and environment you’re putting your money in

Bitchinfussincussin

Hopium if you think it’s in the short term. I can see it happening in the LONG TERM

grndslm

I can support the counter-argument... a digital monetary system that requires decisions & voting is a shitty monetary system. It's SUPER cheap to send propaganda thru media and even "social" pipelines. It literally took days to convince people to leave FreeNode, when it was the primary IRC server for a LONG time...

p1ggy_smalls

Bummer. But are you actually surprised? Not even one brain cell spoke up and said, “Hey, STOP. This fucking piece of shit family has a LONG history of scamming people.” No?

3nino

that's a 10x to ATH. that whale is gonna remember the day he bought at 5m for a LONG time

freakythrowaway79

We've got a LONG & COLD ASS WINTER COMING UP. So nope, just my 2 sats. 🤷🏻

magnus_car_ta

Sorry for the LONG wait on this... So, have you ever heard of Alt Season? It's coming up VERY SOON and when it does alt coins are going to get VERY interesting for a short amount of time. If you have no idea what I'm talking about, feel free to message me and I'll explain in some detail. ✌️!

Ahshut

Think of it this way, sp500 has 100 years of stable increase growth, of which beat inflation, bonds, any HYSA, all by a long shot. The SP500 only tracks US companies. The us economy goes boom, all of that is worthless. BTC is based on a GLOBAL scale. A scale so massive all governments of all the world are invested into it. How else did this thing go to 100+k as fast as it did. It has outpaced every single investment by a LONG SHOT even those considered the safest. The world would have to end for BTC to fail, and at that point, what good is money anyway ?

Renowned_Molecule

Closely watching BTC as a “utility maxi of 20 chains” .. Imagine BTC hitting $1,000,000.00 .. As a utility investor… I’d be set for a LONG time. .. z zzzzzZZZZ THE HIGHER BTC GOES, the higher my holdings go.

Drew-Money

Unfortunately, the only way to confirm that we're in a bear market is Bitcoin down over 50% from the highs. We have a LONG way to go

Stoic_hawaiian808

Obviously hold. Especially if you “don’t need the cash right now”. BTC and ETH are the two titans of the crypto world that’s been pumping ALL YEAR LONG. Dude before 2025, BTC was under $100K per/coin and ETH was around $3K per/coin. Now BTC (was at an ATH of $124k) is sitting at $112k/coin and ETH is about to nearly break that $5K threshold. And we’ve still got around 4 more months until 2025 ends. If I was you, the thought of selling wouldn’t be remotely close anytime soon. Like years from now.

TripTryad

They always do. If you go to tradingview and check previous rate cut cycles you will see that when rate cuts are announced, we see a massive spike in alts, and it usually follows with a drop. BTC dominance strangely spikes for that first month or so of the rate cut. Its the exact opposite of what everyone expects. But we always get a spike (like today) at first. Then it dumps.... But what follows that, is a huge extended rise of alts and the erosion of bitcoin dominance over a LONG period. So just, dont fall for the fake out or be shocked if September is super red even considering the rate cut. Just keep stacking, because October through the end of the year is probably where you see the actual true alt season.

Few-Engineering9803

Even if it's legit, who in their wildest dreams would waste an asset that constantly goes up in value over time on random consumer stuff? BTC is not ready to be a currency, not for a LONG time. Store of value though, absolutely.

Gonky69

c'mon drop the big [https://ibb.co/jvwY3N5k](https://ibb.co/jvwY3N5k) so i can RE OPEN ANOTHER 105X LONG FFS

Some-Draft4364

Wallet tracking will, at times. work. Especially Solana wallets. When I say Solana wallets, its a casino game. You will get to know which shitcoin are they buying that you have no idea what the hell is it and betting that it just go up in another few weeks. I do not track whale wallets as I have my own trading preferences. Someone else posted about watching BTC.D, TOTAL and BTCUSDT. I totally agree with that and that is what I watch for the direction of the market. Specifically, I only see BTC.D and USDT.D. ● BTC.D down + USDT.D down → Capital flowing out of BTC dominance and stablecoins, into alts (LONG ALTS). ● BTC.D up + USDT.D down → BTC pulling in dominance while stablecoin dominance drops (people are buying BTC). (LONG BTC) ● BTC.D up + USDT.D up → Panic mode, money flowing into BTC and stables → both BTC and alts usually dump (SHORT ALTS and BTC) ● BTC.D down + USDT.D up → BTC losing dominance, but money is flowing into stables instead of alts → indecision, sideways chop (NO TRADE, CHOP CITY) Do your TA on both BTC.D and USDT.D and see how magically crapto market reacts to those levels. So basically, crapto moves in the same direction with other craptos. The real question is, which crapto will give you that 10%, 20%, 30% (unleveraged) monster move, instead of that 3%, 5%, 7% crap gain (unleveraged). That is where you use \[your alt coin\] vs BTC (eg: POPCAT/BTC) to see how it is behaving relatively to BTC value. The stronger is it relatively to BTC, the better gain it gives. Pop this into your trading view and see what I mean. BYBIT:SPXUSDT.P/BYBIT:BTCUSDT.P vs BYBIT:10000WENUSDT.P/BYBIT:BTCUSDT.P SPX is relatively stronger than WEN. Do some TA on their levels and watch how much difference they bounce (not subjected to manipulation, pump and dump) But in reality, just be grateful with that 3% or 5% gain (unleveraged). Tradfi bros are throwing party with their 50 pips gain, while crapto bros are complaining to POPCAT for only doing 7% (unleveraged). Whale wallet tracking? Maybe not. I'd invest time and effort more on learning technical analysis.

TheAudacityofHopium

The internet was created by DARPA (back then just ARPA), a US government agency, in the 1960s. It took over 30 years for the internet to really develop and gain traction in the 1990s. I would be willing to make a bet that Bitcoin will grow in adoption much faster than the internet did. The internet took a LONG time to 'blow up' as you put it. Bitcoin is objectively going faster.

chrisfraser666

I've been messing with Caffiene Ai beta for the last 24 hours and its really impressive. Opens up fairly complex development and seamless deployment to very non tech savy users. They have always said its about onboarding the next billion users into crypto, this will go a LONG way to help that.

_TheWolfOfWalmart_

After Asia and Europe dumped ALL NIGHT LONG lmao

Sternritter_V

Way back in highschool(2012ish), I impulsively bought some BTC. Only 3 or 4 if memory serves. That PC is LONG dead and recycled, and I really don’t have any recourse to get the info back. Stuff like this is what makes me regret being an idiot lol. Congrats, and may you have many happy years on your farm.

BeachbumfromBrick

Why did Charles Hoskinson quit Etheteum to start his New Osmosis/ADA? Is it because he KNOWS in the long run ADA is better ? Is there something I’m missing about that past occurrence and the start of Osmosis ? He shares it’s far better in long run and scalability than Buterins eth… remember when it was $35 to send $35?!?! They came a LONG WAY! From eth to that Legendary ETH 2… I think we’re CLOSE but eth needs to do away with or cheapen gas ten fold still at the least

Smooth_Talk

There's a way to do it In a Linux OS. I would recommend starting here. https://hashcat.net/forum/thread-8878.html Also backup your wallet.dat file immediately and store it as securely as possible. If you have an idea of what the password might be it can be A LOT easier to crack it, if you have no clue brute forcing it can be impossible or take a LONG amount of time. If you want to try it and dont know anyone with Linux skills it's going to take a lot of research and time. I suggest you do it yourself if possible to avoid having someone take it from you or paying a bounty.

ScatMonkeyPro

I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I cannot provide you the evidence that you desire. USA has developed nuclear reactors the size of a suitcase. One the size of a container is no problem. America has had relatively small reactors running in Navy vessels for over 50 years. That is a LONG time to. be working on tech in the wings. Also, China probably KNOWS that USA invented Bitcoin, which is why they are so hell bent on keeping their people from investing it. Sometimes in life you have to discard all the information presented to you, and look at the BEHAVIOR of the parties involved to arrive at the truth. This is one of those times.

redstormrock

Is there a strong correlation ADA to XRP over LONG periods of time? Hey man, whatever helps you, I do truly hope you will make money using your analysis.

Alone-Professor8581

Thanks for your advice.It's revenge trading 100% , I set it for 5 minutes and as soon as a candle seems ready to explode, I LONG. Completely stupid. We enter when the volume is there, or after breaking a resistance, not by observing candles 

MarketOstrich

I’m buying $10 each day. Wish I had started this a LONG time ago.

created20250523

I know it might not get to you: but don't trade BTC. It's not worth it, and it takes a huge toll emotionally. Also there is a real risk. I know, I've been there. Just buy and hold. If you want to augment that: get tradfi loans that you can service easily and invest LONG TERM (4+ years) with that capital. It's basically what Michael Saylor does. As long as you can service those loans, you shouldn't have issues long term. Unless a catastrophy happens with BTC, of course. Good on you on researching safety methods. The quick answer is: get a cold wallet like trezor and hide in a safe place (or two) the seed phrase.

Significant_Job5503

Agreed, I’ve started taking profits and of course price keeps going up but I tell myself the amount of time I spent in the red vs the green chances are it will return to below my sell price at some point so take profit while you can or risk another LONG bear market.

Jwilson1996

DO NOT INVEST FOR THE LONG TERM: That way your more likely to make money. Instead you should ALWAYS buy high and sell low. That way you guarantee a loss

Crafty-Magician5208

ETH Perp, 10x LONG

Emergency-Tip5103

bitcoin is not gambling, price always go up on a LONG-TERM vision fiat system is ruined, bitcoin is the only hard money, the only asset that can keep you out of this trash system we living in humanity always looks to the best technology to evolve, once people start feeling more that their salary is not enough due to inflation they will make this evolution and the answer is Bitcoin 🤷🤷

KCConnor

Guys, I want it as much as you all do. But 160 companies out of how many in the world? A quick google search suggests there are 359 million companies in the world. There are 33 million in the US. But, even if we limit it to publicly traded companies, there are about 4000 of those. 160 of 4000 is about 4%. But I bet the 160 number above includes Metaplanet, which is Japanese and not US, which increases the denominator from 4000 to 7900. And probably includes some from Singapore, Hong Kong, and elsewhere. So we're more like sub-1%. And if it includes non-publicly traded companies like SpaceX which hold BTC, then it's sub-0.1%. We've got a LONG WAY TO GO. Most publicly traded companies are going to be watching performance of Strategy, Metaplanet, XXI, and others, through the next bear market, before getting on board. I suspect Strategy is going to have a VERY, VERY HARD bear market to survive. I expect them to be this next bear market's equivalent of the FTX collapse. Not that I think Saylor has done any malfeasance; just that he is the low hanging fruit that many will try to tear apart during weakness.