VALUE

Particular_Bet3534

So, it's more volatile than stocks. The price is still able to fluctuate 20% in the space of a month. However, looking at larger timescales and ignoring all the day trader FUD, fear and greed, it does keep going up and the volatility keeps reducing. It's a long term investment and as such IS A STORE OF VALUE that over the last decade has beaten every other store of value. I can't see this changing.

YannicusCrime

I think where people get hung up on this is the placement of the decimal point. In the fiat system we are used to $10 buying what $1 used to buy (prices go up as money SUPPLY increases). But with Bitcoin, “additional” units are on the other side of the decimal meaning something worth 1 sat will eventually cost 0.1 sat (prices going down as money VALUE increases). I can see where the confusion happens but people don’t stop to really think about it. Changing which side of the decimal point we’re talking about makes all the difference.

2peg2city

we can generate 80 TRILLION IN BOOK VALUE THAT WE CAN'T, IN ANY WAY, ACTUALLY USE!!!

Mordan

at last someone who understand in this cesspool of liberal brain rot. Its all about VALUE and Trust. Everyone in the world values Bitcoin. The USD? Not so much anymore.

Vicious1900

It does have other uses. Guy was wrong about that and that was the only point in my comment. Not sure why that’s so difficult for you to understand. Guess the VALUE of common sense is priceless after all. Or should I spell it cents to make it more witty.

_RawSushi_

Here are a bunch of threads np.reddit.com/r/CryptoHiveMind/comments/1irafry/b3_my_research_why_i_invested_10k/ IMO here are a shit ton of insights np.reddit.com/r/CryptoHiveMind/s/Ku8i8RJKZQ Ive been in a long time (2013). I'm in my 50s. Before crypto I was buying and selling stocks. I was doing it wrong. I've been investing in crypto the right ready since the beginning. I've made a lot. A real lot To do what you want to do realize that- 1. It's like the British Military's quote Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance If you do not Do Your Own Research DYOR, your just throwing money in the air hoping it'll come back to you Another post about HODL and DYOR np.reddit.com/r/CryptoHiveMind/s/g1m4qfDoS3 2. Due Diligence (DD) takes time. You need to understand A. the CONCEPT & VALUE of Blockchain B. The PROBLEM that the crypto project is trying to solve... Or the future VALUE ADD of the project C. Why the team is there? Are there names front and center? If no, IMO THAT'S EXTREMELY SUSPICIOUS. What value do they add? D. Are there backers? What else have those backers done in the past? Etc. If you can't or won't act like a detective, why put your money into a random (it's RANDOM or l if you don't know) investment? HERE'S A POST on STRATEGIC THINKING np.reddit.com/r/CryptoHiveMind/s/D95yIkpSVs

fukidiots

We do care how much wealth we have or don't have, which changes with the price. It's a store of VALUE after all.

swift_trout

Here’s the two ways that I looked at the VALUE of what I would get by buying Bitcoin at 4 Bitcoin at $500 in 2014. The logic remains only the values have changed as I have continued to buy Bitcoin ever since. The view considers both supply and demand points of view. There are about 3 trillion printed dollars in SUPPLIED circulation. There will NEVER be more than 21 million Bitcoin in SUPPLY. The current price at that SUPPLY in exchange for dollars is $98,000. However, an exchange based on dividing the printed dollars in circulation by the number of total bitcoin their can ever be puts the value of a Bitcoin at $143,000. Using that simple supply exchange calculus the CURRENT PRICE of Bitcoin buys something that is 40% UNDER VALUE. Bitcoin is from a supply point of view a good buy. However an exchange based on a percentage of assets can also be considered valid. There are also $360 trillion dollars in delimited assets capitalized in the global economy. There are $1.6 trillion in assets delimited in Bitcoin. That’s .44% of the global value of assets. Demand for Bitcoin is growing so its market capitalization is likely to grow. It is not unreasonable to assume that demand grows to a point where Bitcoin is 1% instead of the current .44% of global assets. At that rate of demand the value of Bitcoin would be $320,000. Bitcoin is from a demand point of view a good buy. At a price of $97,000 I am getting an asset that I reckon the value to be at least between $143,000 and $320,000. And if demand increases, probably more. So I am comfortable buying now. Really comfortable. It’s not as good as the $500 I bought at a decade ago. But still excellent value.

swift_trout

Here’s the two ways I looked at the VALUE of what I would get by buying Bitcoin at 4 Bitcoin at $500 in 2014 and has continued be my view as I have bought Bitcoin ever since. The view considers both supply and demand points of view. There are about 3 trillion printed dollars in SUPPLIED circulation. There will NEVER be more than 21 million Bitcoin in SUPPLY. The current price at that SUPPLY in exchange for dollars is $98,000. However, an exchange based on dividing the printed dollars in circulation by the number of total bitcoin their can ever be puts the value of a Bitcoin at $143,000. Using that simple supply exchange calculus the CURRENT PRICE of Bitcoin buys something that is 40% UNDER VALUE. Bitcoin is from a supply point of view a good buy. However an exchange based on a percentage of assets can also be considered valid. There are also $360 trillion dollars in delimited assets capitalized in the global economy. There are $1.6 trillion in assets delimited in Bitcoin. That’s .44% of the global value of assets. Demand for indicates Bitcoin’s market capitalization is likely to grow. It is not unreasonable to assume that demand grows to a point where Bitcoin is 1% instead of the current .44% of global assets. At that rate of demand the value of Bitcoin would be $320,000. Bitcoin is from a demand point of view a good buy. At a price of $97,000 I am getting an asset that I reckon the value to be at least between $143,000 and $320,000. Probably more. But I am comfortable buying now. Really comfortable.

emptypencil70

You put your money into MEME COINS WHICH INHERENTLY MEANS THERE IS NO VALUE BEHIND THEM. WHAT DID YOU EXPECT TO HAPPEN? FUCKING BONK AND PEPE, REALLY? JUST SELL AND PUT THE MONEY INTO VTI.

Leafan1976

Just make her watch a 1 hour documentary on FIAT currency. Show her how EVERYDAY you work and bank your money. Or even invest it and get a 4% ROI The FED prints more and the VALUE of your dollar DEPRECIATES Crypto especially BTC has proven to be the BEST way to GROW the VALUE of your dollars in recent years. Also show her a quick Search of how many States and Countries are in the works of establishing a Bitcoin Reserve as well. Also.... They are limited in supply. The first time ever that Demand can NOT increase supply

under_score_forever

Can explain very simply why your thesis about Bitcoin being perfect etc etc is just wrong. While most of your points are true, what differentiates Bitcoin from the myriad other cryptocurrencies in existence or from the 10,000 others with all the same features of Bitcoin but just different names that could be created programmatically in an instant? The answer, of course, is nothing. This demonstrates that the only thing making Bitcoin "valuable" is the speculative nature of this particular cryptocurrency. If any of your points had actual merit in terms of the VALUE of Bitcoin then any other cryptocurrency created with the same attributes you've listed would also, by definition, be valuable. But they are not, hence see above

HavocMMA

YES YES YES, EXACTLY THERE WAS NO REAL ECONOMIC GROWTH (debatable I get it, but the point stands) IT WAS JUST INFLATION WHY THE SP500 x5 IN 10 YEARS, BUT PEOPLE ARE NOT LIVING IN MASS ABUNDANCE AND LUXURY? ARENT COMPANIES CREATING AND INNOVATING BEYOND IMAGINATION? NO! THEY JUST INFLATE THEIR STOCK VALUE WITH LOW INTEREST MONEY (buybacks)

Hidden5G

Bitcoin is often seen as “digital gold” because people use it to store value, but it has some big issues—it’s slow, expensive to use, outdated, and bad for the environment. A single Bitcoin transaction in 2025 uses as much electricity as a U.S. home does in 46 days because its system (called Proof of Work) requires a huge amount of power to run! On top of that, Bitcoin can only handle a small number of transactions at a time, which makes it very slow. When too many people are using it, the network gets clogged, and transaction fees go up. That means you either have to wait a long time or pay extra to get your transaction processed quickly. Meanwhile, utility tokens are changing the game. These tokens aren’t just used for buying and selling—they actually do things within their blockchain networks. They can be used for services, voting on decisions, or earning rewards. Blockchain technology in 2025 is improving very fast. New methods like zero-knowledge rollups and Proof of Stake (PoS) are making transactions cheaper, faster, and more energy-efficient. Unlike Bitcoin’s energy-hungry system, PoS uses way less power, making it a better long-term option. Another big trend is tokenizing real-world assets (like real estate, stocks, and supply chains), which could grow into a $2–30 trillion industry. This means blockchain isn’t just about crypto anymore—it’s becoming a huge part of the global economy. Which BTC was never designed for, or capable of. In short, Bitcoin is outdated when it comes to speed, cost, and energy use. That’s why utility tokens and new blockchain technology are gaining momentum, they provide more VALUE and are being adopted across industries at a fast pace. But as always, do your own research before making any big decisions.

MinimalistMindset35

I’m tired of seeing this question. You don’t understand how the monetization cycle works. Bitcoin can’t be currency until it goes through the monetization cycle! Stop expecting it to be a currency when it’s currently a STORE OF VALUE. This is basic economics.

BROnesimus

This is a great idea AS LONG AS YOU DONT SELL IF THE VALUE DROPS. IF BTC enters a bear cycle and drops to $60k, you need to be okay with that money being stuck for a few years. If you are likely to panic sell, then you’re better off in a money market account. 🤣

Bitcoin_StoreOfValue

That's because BTC is THE STORE OF VALUE - [www.storeofvalue.net](http://www.storeofvalue.net)

spicolispizza

Download coingecko on your phone. Input these into your portfolio Coingecko will let you know if the projects have folded. For example: This link was provided by the coingecko evergrow page https://x.com/evergrowcoinegc/status/1832074365468377198?s=46&t=5RkQCj0cFfxqdycmYEhlAA >ESSENTIAL REMINDER! DO NOT TRADE EVERGROW OR LUCRO. We removed the liquidity pools, those continuing to trade risk total loss. There is no liquidity to support the value of any of those tokens, you will not be able to sell them without incurring significant, LIKELY TOTAL LOSS. We officially announced the end of trading on those tokens several days ago. WE WILL UPDATE HOLDERS SOON ON WHAT OUR NEXT STEPS WILL BE. FOR THOSE WHO HELD EVERGROW AND LUCRO BEFORE WE WITHDREW LIQUIDITY, THE VALUE OF YOUR TOKENS IS 100% PROTECTED. FOR THOSE WHO ACQUIRED TOKENS AFTER, THE VALUE OF THOSE TOKENS IS ZERO FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE PROJECT.

SevenShivas

For months i had the same question in my mind. After reading Bitcoin Standard and studying more, that maximalist thought fell to the ground. Forget it. The earlier you see bitcoin as the new Digital Gold, the better will be. There is the possibility of everyday transaction in the future? Yes, but unlikely. Just look at the control that governments are having around it, they will never allow (at least sooner) this to happen... so, you use it as STORE OF VALUE, against the inflation and maintaining the purchasing power. Thats it.

Emergency_Egg1281

DUDE , really . Your getting laughed at because it's one on the major block chains out there , Like ETH , BINANCE , POLKADOT, It's a major player. Look at a Crypto's MARKET VALUE. That's how they move NOT by volume. If you see on the list of top movers click on one and look at volume , It's super high buying and selling. Then it falls 15% . 2 days later it pumps again. You have to dig deeper to see who the idiots are buying from FOMO and the ones in the know who sold. Good luck with whatever you choose.

fistfucker07

It’s not that the term that’s made up. It’s the fact that the VALUE is made up. And they should be using the full 100 billion for xrp’s market cap. As they are pre mined. Ripple has them in escrow, but they get released and circulated.

LambosForJesus

Death as a REAL soul condition does not exist in the universe. 60 billion have lived on planet Earth in 170,000 years.. and no one has ever died. Worrying about other people's death or your own.. is not a truly informed or enlightened state. Everyone moves seamlessly to spirit-body (a real body) retaining all memories, issues, desires (generally speaking) and ignorance. Also, Bitcoin is LITERALLY meant to spend.. once it's VALUE benefits (i.e. accrued worth) attain a certain level in your life. The vast majority of wealthy people pass into murky to dark spirit worlds.. as idolizing money (or feeling somehow it relates to your own worth) is fool's gold. It is the LOVE & TRUTH condition of your half-soul which determines the brightness and beauty of the next world you move to. Your opinion on the matter means literally ZERO to the LOVE LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE. as your real job during Earth life which virtually everyone fails miserably is to learn LOVE & TRUTH from Absolute, not Relative perspective. That said, I sold a bunch of BTC at $98k and bought a Ford Shelby GT350R. This is literally one of the most enjoyable vehicles to drive EVER. It is an investment in JOY and HAPPINESS and nothing else. I will keep it shiny & immaculate for 15 years and drive it maybe once or twice a week on curvy mountainside roads. Since it is a unique and no longer manufactured vehicle it may retain some value.. but that doesn't matter. The universe does NOT THINK in dollar value terms.. that is a human-wrought collective belief many of you wield deep in your subconscious. I am 100% non-religious.. but assure you, God does NOT CARE about money.. but rather your heart and understanding of true laws of love. Peace and God Bless.

553l8008

I try to explain it with the gold Ie... Is gold valuable? Inherently valuable? Gold is valuable because of 'want'. People want it, thus it is valuable. People usually want it because it's rare, kind of finite, can't be easily reproduced, is objectively pretty, and recently has an actual use in electronics. Therefore people want it, thus it has value. But.... Did precolonial native americans find gold valuable? No. Why not? Was it rare? Yes. Was it shiny still? Yes. Etc If it was still all those things then why didn't it have value? It had no value because they didn't need it. Thus they didn't want it. People want bitcoin People want bitcoin because it's rare, finite, trustless, decentralized etc. Thus because of want, bitcoin has VALUE. Value is based on want and want alone ... Its not a ponzi in any stretch of the word. It, at most is a "greater fool theory", but so is a 401k, ira, gold, stocks, etc 

zerkermode

its not right that the price of housing is so high because people make investments out of them. The actual VALUE of houses right now is totally blown out of proportion

abercrombezie

(Net worth) - (yearly expenses) +(other debts) divided by / (remaining life expectancy) = VALUE So if VALUE meets a decent yearly income, you should be set.

Rice-Fragrant

Class of 2017 even though I knew about bitcoin as early as 2012 but my goldbug brain told me “it’s not physical so it has no value” and after seeing China failed at stopping bitcoin in 2017 I saw how robust it was. 2017-2021 playing the “alt coin” casino thinking it would get me “more” than just DCAing bitcoin and was throwing loaded dice with RUG PULLS AND PUMP AND DUMPS. I still have many of these garbage “crypto project” tokens but the market cap for a majority of earlier ones has collapsed and it’s too hard to sell or it’s so low it’s worthless. I got a ton of NFTs too most lost over 90% of its value and never recovered. 2021-2024 I had to save very hard to catch up for lost time and now I have enough to RETIRE EARLY whenever Inhave had enough of the working world. I have had WAY LESS STRESS at work now because I have a financial safety net… I no longer stress about lossing my job and it feels like a weight was lifted off my back. Bitcoin was my tool to retake the value siphoned off from me via a corrupt fiat debt monetary system… I WORK LIKE A BEAST OF BURDEN for 20 years only to be compensated with literal DEBT TOKEN FIAT TRASH that gets devalued at 6%/year in real purchasing power. When other people think that bitcoin is “gaining value,” I reframed it and say “BITCOIN IS RETAKING VALUE that was stolen from the working class and gave it back to those who switched from fiat to a harder/sounder monetary ledger which is BITCOIN. Gold at best just stabilizes/buffers the loses from fiat debasement/thieft… but bitcoin is the ONLY ONE that retakes the value the fiat system stolen from you for the decades you were payed in fiat fugazi “money.”

numecca

OF SYNTHETIC STORE OF VALUE. sorry for caps

nyaaaa

He called it a ponzi because the INCREASE IN VALUE needs more value? How **fucking** clueless.

Friendly_Essay5772

People kind of like the financial world being so complicated because then they think they are smart if they have all these "diversified investments" ... which actually aren't diversified anyways lol... The economy basically runs off of 10 companies, but everyone thinks they are so diversified off of every different equity and financial instrument. People love the complicated lingo and the complicated bullshit! 🤣 It makes them feel smart! But ACTUALLY smart people understand that keeping things simple is how the world works... Go ahead and make it confusing, but everything is very simple if you boil it down.. And a distributed, decentralized, digital ledger is very simple. It's literally perfectly engineered money. Look up the attributes of money! It's very simple!!!! People WANT to complicate everything in life! They almost just overthink it. Everything in modern society is based on "money". The entire financial world can be boiled down to people wanting to make money.. Even people's homes! They think it's "increasing in value".. But if you are ACTUALLY intelligent, you realize that nothing "increases in value"... It's just the money losing value! ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING WILL LOSE VALUE IN COMPARISON TO A DECENTRALIZED, DIGITAL LEDGER!!!! you don't need anything else Basically I just tell people that they must understand how the bitcoin network and mining works for them to understand the value of it. Of course you're gonna think it's a scam if you don't understand that, or the current system of money and banking works

Alex_O7

>Now imagine the difficulty of personally delivering them 1 billion usd worth of gold and bitcoin. No third parties, you must deliver it personally. That's the breakthrough That's really isn't bitcoin nor the breakthrough you are imagining. For one simple reason. When you send and recieve Bitcoin you are not sending and receiving the VALUE of Bitcoin, you are just sending and/or receiving a part of or a certain number of Bitcoins. The 1 billion USD you are talking about is only the PERCIEVED AT THE TIME OF TRANSACTION of value. And here your philosophical argument die, imho. Because you can just do it with whatever you want. You can say you literal piece of shit is worth 1 billion USD, and you just have to find one so stupid to buy into it, and you can deliver it personally in his/her bathroom. And this has already happened in the past, also with some coins. That's mostly why Bitcoin is not a SHIFT in paradigm, it is not the breakthrough, you are talking about.

codingwithcoffee

Whilst the hard cap on supply definitely influences the VALUE of Bitcoin as an asset - the price is just set by the last traded value. This is a much smaller pool - the people willing to sell / wanting to buy at any point in time. So perhaps a better (and arguably more bullish) indicator of where market price may be headed is the (continually dropping) balance of Bitcoin being held on exchanges. This graph tells a story… https://www.coinglass.com/Balance Bitcoin is being taken off exchanges and stored in long term wallets - by holders, ETFs, companies and sovereign nation balance sheets. Mining companies are starting to run the micro strategy playbook - borrow against their Bitcoin to fund day-to-day operations rather than sell an increasingly valuable asset. The lower amount of bitcoin available on exchanges means a smaller amount of bitcoin is trying to absorb the relentless and increasing buy-side pressure. Hence number go up! And mechanisms like ETFs and Microstrategy have made it easy for folks to get in without having to figure out wallets. Whilst holding BTC is better from a purist perspective - if they buy from an ETF, the ETF still needs to ultimately buy the bitcoin to support their position. And I believe we are early. This is still “dial up internet” days. We are barely at the start of a significant increase in people, companies, pension funds and countries all wanting a piece. Interesting times ahead for sure.

coojw

\> So what's your strategy for managing your wealth? Firstly, im no financial advisor, so I cannot actually advise you, but for me its all about understanding what bitcoin is as the FIRST STEP. Once you understand what Bitcoin is (this takes a while, trust me), you need to understand what the US DOLLAR is as the SECOND STEP. I know this sound rudimentary, but I guarantee you that you, myself, and most people get this wrong on the first time around. Once you understand that Bitcoin IS money, and the US dollar is NOT money (its a currency, yes there's a big difference, watch clip #4), then you realize that bitcoin will always appreciate against the dollar. It appreciates for 2 main reasons... 1) because bitcoin is at the beginning of its adoption curve, and it will take years for full adoption. All during this adoption period, it will go up in value without even considering the 2nd point. 2) Bitcoin is a true store of value, it is 100% finite. Because of this, it cannot be devalued by printing more (which is how it happens with the US dollar - again watch clip #4 for context). Gold has been humanity's go to "Money" for thousands of years, but it still has a leak in value, because its supply isn't finite. More gold can be mined, but it is rare. So with these concepts in mind, you start to grasp that Bitcoin preserves long term wealth and the dollar doesn't (its lost 98% of its buying power since 1971), which gives you anxiety about getting out of the dollar and into bitcoin. The inflation spikes that we feel at the pump and in the grocery store is from money printing. Every time you feel the sting of prices increasing, you have to remember its the value of your dollar decreasing and buying less goods. Bitcoin, though its volatile in its early years still, will hold its long term value. No one has lost money holding Bitcoin through any 4 year cycle in its history. All of my wealth that I hold for long term is in Bitcoin, anything not in bitcoin is either for immediate use to live on, or if I am actively doing something to increase my wealth (business building, short term capital gains etc) \> I feel dumping a few grand into Bitcoin today would be an impulse move even if it's only 2% of my wealth. But if the idea is to hold it then what does it matter about timing the market. I think your current mindset is that you want to put a few grand into Bitcoin to make some money. However you need to correct the way you are thinking about this. Bitcoin IS perfectly engineered money, and you want to both hold it for its value increasing due to it spreading across the world, but also to protect your value from decreasing holding the US dollar. So if you approach it with this mindset, you will understand that putting 2% of your net-worth into bitcoin is only protecting 2% of your wealth from losing value. I leave it to you to act accordingly. The usual safe way of acquiring any asset is Dollar Cost Averaging (DCA), which you can do to be the safest. Alternatively you can do larger purchases if you feel that Bitcoin's price is really moving. This is called "Weighted DCA", where you put more weight into your purchases while the heavy price movement is going up to make sure you aren't missing gains. Bitcoin is mathematically sound money, and is expected to go into the millions in the coming years, so keep that in mind when squabbling over what price points to buy it at in the current market conditions. \>  I always just defaulted to the target date funds through retirement. Long story short, I feel like I need Bitcoin exposure but I can't decide how to go about it If you are looking for safety, we've been conditioned to trust the US dollar, but I can promise you, it is one of the most unsafe things for you to hold. ALL DOLLAR DELIMITED INVESTMENTS SUFFER THE SAME PROBLEM, THEY ARE ALL BASED IN THE US DOLLAR SYSTEM, AND ARE ALL SUBJECT TO THE SAME VALUE LOSS DUE TO INFLATION. So yes, you do need Bitcoin, but more than exposure, you just need to hold the asset itself to insulate yourself from the falling knife of the US dollar inflation. Going about it is quite simple. Signup for your centralized exchange of your choice, generally thats Coinbase for Americans, Binance for most other countries, make an account and fund it with your dollars, then buy bitcoin. The best practice as I mentioned above is regular buys to "Average" your acquisition price for the best result. In this environment where things are heating up, feel free to buy more at a faster pace if that suits you. Its very important to understand that any BTC you purchase, expect to use it as your savings for the money you use over a long period of time. Selling BTC to hold dollars again at first seems logical, but when you apply what you've learned, you realize that not holding dollars is the goal here, and bitcoin is your safety net. As for how to use the value of your bitcoin, plan to hold it long enough to take advantage of the "Borrow against your bitcoin" strategy down the road, as this will be ideally how you hold on to bitcoin forever while still enjoying the fruit of your gains. \> every time I see one of these runs like the past few days, I feel like it's too late Its never too late to own bitcoin, but at somepoint in the future it will be too late to profit from it. You are still earlier than most of the world, and thats all you need to make a profit. You won't make the millions or hundreds of millions that people made who got bitcoin at $100, but you will do well for yourself when bitcoin reaches the expected value ranges of $500K, $1M, and beyond over the coming years. As long as the US dollar keeps being printed, it will always fall against Bitcoin.

553l8008

I try to explain it with the gold Ie... Is gold valuable? Inherntly valuable? He will say yes but the answer is no. Gold is valuable because of 'want'. People want it, thus it is valuable. People usualky want it because it's rare, kind of finite, can't be easily reproduced, is objectively pretty, and recently has an actual use in electronics. Therefore people want it, thus it has value. But.... Did precolonial native americans find  gold valuable? No. Was it rare? Yes. Was it shiny still? Yes. Etc If it was still all those things then why didn't it have value? It had no value because they didn't need it. Thus they didn't want it. People want bitcoin People want bitcoin because it's  rare, finite, trustless, decentralized etc. Thus because of want, bitcoin has VALUE. Value is based on want and want alone

m2nato

I disagree with the win lose argument. The people who brought BTC for a $10-20 sold for $100-200 then those sold for $2-3k and so on. If you sell sooner then thats your loss, or maybe you traded for a different coin/ paid for a service. As for the energy waste comment, well at the very least during ETH, you could buy 2-6 graphics cards, make $10-100 a day, and you make your money back in a week, if you held onto the coin and paid out of pocket you may have made a few thousand. Its passive income. Sure there is no use for it right now, but who cares when you are making mney. This "early adopters ponzi" argument doesnt make sense to me, I mean sure those who invested 5 years ago made more money, but people thought the same thing is 2019, and those who brought apple for $5 then sold for $100, the latter "lost" in your argument (yes I know stocks are different and have inherit value, but this is a new concept, a digital currency being used instead of through banks. The whole reason BTC survived you could say was due to wikileaks in 2011, which proved why it was useful, it was unfortunate than an EXCHANGE was hacked, which goes to prove the VALUE of a P2P CURRENCY thats my 2c, the fact that criminals use it for drugs doesnt mean anything, the fact that it isnt backed by anything of value, to me doesnt mean much either. In the future maybe a company will rent out their hardware for their crypto, which you can pay for with satoshi or other coins.

crimeo

> Proof of Work vs. Proof of Stake: Proof of Work (PoW) is about real hard work. Lol, it's not "hard", a computer does it for you while you sit on your ass. Exactly like ETH. And even if it was hard, that would make bitcoin *stupider*, not better, as it would be even *more wasteful* if so (of both electricity and human labor) > Hard work creates real value. No, it doesn't. Picking up a shovel full of dirt in my back yard and then shoveling the same dirt back into the hole again creates no value. Same exact thing with bitcoin's utterly pointless waste of electricity, when Ethereum does everything it does without the waste. > just having wealth creates more wealth No it doesn't create any more wealth. If you have 1 ETH, and over time, the total ETH doubles, you now have 2 ETH, but each one is worth half as much due to the inflation. So you have no additional wealth. > leading to risks of centralization. Uh no. How? Complete nonsense. If I have 1% of all ETH, and then I have twice as much later because all ETH doubled, then I now have 2 / (twice as much) = **I still have 1%, so nothing centralized at all** > Ethereum has changed its monetary policy multiple times No it hasn't. When they introduced proof of stake, they created a completely new coin and people voluntarily moved to it. The old coin still exists, and you can use it if you want. The exact same thing could happen to bitcoin, if the vast majority of people agreed that a new protocol was better and voluntarily moved to it. That's NOT the protocol changing. That's a completely **new coin** not a changed protocol. The protocol is written in stone for any one ethereum coin and cannot change. Precisely like bitcoin. > Sure, staking might look like an efficient way to earn more ETH, but think about where that ETH comes from. It’s created out of thin air, "Earning more ETH" gains you ZERO EXTRA VALUE. So who cares? Literally who cares? > just like fiat money. No this is utterly different, because only certain people can create fiat money, and they use it for themselves, it doesn't go equally to everyone. It only goes to the government. That moves value from people to government. ETH works completely differently where the new ETH goes equally to EVERYONE, at once, thus moves value from nobody to nobody. Not even slightly the same. > By the way, Ethereum hasn’t been around “for ages.” If it were easy to attack, it would have been attacked a dozen times over for the multi billion dollar prize of doing so, if it had "low security", since it switched to PoS. It hasn't been. Obviously PoS is perfectly fine for security. Wake me up when someone ever attacks it successfully. > If you check the ETH/BTC chart on CoinMarketCap, you’ll see that ETH has consistently lost value compared to Bitcoin. Uh the chart does not show that at all, actually. You clearly didn't look at your own chart. > But after diving deeper into economic theories and really understanding the difference between hard money and fiat-like systems, I realized why Bitcoin’s approach is fundamentally different. If only you didn't keep this mysterious totally-real, not-made-up knowledge to yourself, and were able to write it out on reddit.

onesculpt

\> "So what? At-will printing is the only problem with printing. Fixed, algorithmic, locked-in supply proportional to staking is not a problem, it's **exactly** the same as mining in its effect. * People with lots of ETH get more ETH, directly proportional to their starting wealth * People with lots of BTC can buy a lot of ASICs and get more BTC, directly proportional to their starting wealth" Proof of Work vs. Proof of Stake: Proof of Work (PoW) is about real hard work. Only through real effort and energy consumption can the network be secured. Hard work creates real value. Proof of Stake (PoS), on the other hand, is more like the fiat system, where just having wealth creates more wealth, leading to risks of centralization. If you’ve really studied economic theories like Modern Monetary Theory (MMT), Keynesian economics, and Austrian economics, you’d understand that real money needs to be created through hard work. Money isn’t the same as currency. Bitcoin, backed by PoW, represents that hard work, which is why it has real value. \> "No it's literally 100% inflexible. Set in stone. No clue what you're talking about. Nobody can change the algorithm, any more than bitcoin. (All they can do is make a whole new coin and try to convicne everyone to move to it, which can also happen with bitcoin)" Policy Changes and Scarcity: Ethereum has changed its monetary policy multiple times, like when it forked after the DAO hack. This shows it’s not truly set in stone. Bitcoin, however, can’t be changed without massive agreement from everyone: miners, nodes, and users. That’s what makes Bitcoin stable and predictable. \>As shown above with the two bullet points, ethereum protects your value exactly equally as well. So nope. Sure, staking might look like an efficient way to earn more ETH, but think about where that ETH comes from. It’s created out of thin air, just like fiat money. Even if the comparison isn’t perfect, the idea remains: without real work or energy behind it, the currency can become inflationary. Hard money, like Bitcoin, requires hard work to create, and history has shown that’s what gives money real value. \>Ethereum has been worth billions for ages now under PoS, when was it attacked? Why is it not being attacked? If it's "low security"? Do hackers/attackers just not like free money? Or...? By the way, Ethereum hasn’t been around “for ages.” It was launched in 2015 (or 2016 if you count when it really took off), and it only moved to Proof of Stake in 2022. Since then, it hasn’t reached its all-time high again. Why? Because PoS can lead to inflation, similar to fiat money. Ethereum has faced many forks and changes, and its security is still not on the same level as Bitcoin’s. Bitcoin’s network is the most dominant and secure, backed by the power of PoW. What does Ethereum offer besides Smart Contracts, NFTs, and PoS? Is it really a good store of value compared to Bitcoin? \>No, the VALUE is just as scarce. Bitcoin you hold 1 BTC, and later you still hold an equally scarce value of 1 BTC Ethereum you hold and stake 1 ETH, and later the total number has doubled, and you have 2 ETH, each of which has half the true value (purchasing power) as before. 0.5+0.5 = 1, the same value as you had before, you hold the same portion / scarcity of ethereum. Just as guaranteed and stable as BTC. If you check the ETH/BTC chart on CoinMarketCap, you’ll see that ETH has consistently lost value compared to Bitcoin. There are reasons for that. Bitcoin’s dominance as a store of value is unmatched, and ETH’s inflationary tendencies under PoS just can’t compete. \>I have, which is how I know ethereum is superior in literally every way. I used to think the same way back in 2021, and I understand why it felt convincing at the time. But after diving deeper into economic theories and really understanding the difference between hard money and fiat-like systems, I realized why Bitcoin’s approach is fundamentally different. Maybe it’s worth revisiting some of those concepts with a fresh perspective.

crimeo

> Ethereum might not have printing like fiat, but there is no fixed supply cap. So what? At-will printing is the only problem with printing. Fixed, algorithmic, locked-in supply proportional to staking is not a problem, it's **exactly** the same as mining in its effect. > making it less scarce compared to Bitcoin. No, the VALUE is just as scarce. * Bitcoin you hold 1 BTC, and later you still hold an equally scarce value of 1 BTC * Ethereum you hold and stake 1 ETH, and later the total number has doubled, and you have 2 ETH, each of which has half the true value (purchasing power) as before. 0.5+0.5 = 1, the **same value as you had before**, you hold the same portion / scarcity of ethereum. > Ethereum’s monetary policy is more flexible No it's literally 100% inflexible. Set in stone. No clue what you're talking about. Nobody can change the algorithm, any more than bitcoin. (All they can do is make a whole new coin and try to convicne everyone to move to it, which can also happen with bitcoin) > Bitcoin’s Proof of Work does use a lot of energy, but it’s necessary to make money truly valuable As shown above with the two bullet points, ethereum protects your value exactly equally as well. So nope. > and to secure the network. Ethereum has been worth billions for ages now under PoS, when was it attacked? Why is it not being attacked? If it's "low security"? Do hackers just not like free money? Or...? > maybe read some books I have, which is how I know ethereum is superior in literally every way.

Rice-Fragrant

Bitcoin is for “can’t fuck with me” type transactions… like if you are sending economic value to relatives in a totally corrupt country or if you were aiding independent journalists or freedom movements. Why would I use bitcoin to buy coffee? That argument never made any logical sense… I can understand bitcoin being a FREEDOM MONETARY SYSTEM WITH A STRONG STORE OF VALUE LONG TERM MECHANICS… but the idea of buying coffee with bitcoin never appealed to me. I personally like bitcoin for the long term store of value. I was once a gold bug before bitcoin and was using gold and silver as my actual savings but it was riddled with serious problems like dealers trying to scam me with “faulty scales” and their operating times were inconvenient etc…. Just like the days off precious metals, no one used gold or silver for coffee. For coffee, people used copper coins that were far less valuable.

briguy37

When Bitcoin was first released in 2009, the total planned Satoshis (2,100,000,000,000,000) were nearly equal to the number of pennies (2,030,000,000,000,000) in the 2009 USD total global circulation for M0, M1, M2, and M3 (coincidence? I think not.). Thus, I think $1,000,000 in value of 2009 dollars gives a rough relative maximum for the VALUE of bitcoin if it were to fully replace USD. Going 60x over this in just 20 years seems excessive. However, $1 in 2024 is worth much less than $1 in 2009, and $1 in 2044 will almost certainly be worth less that that, so 1000x in terms of the US Dollar would be possible (especially with hyperinflation), even though that would not be 1000x in true value.

codingwithcoffee

Follow it to the logical conclusion… In your vision the world runs on Bitcoin. They have Satoshi’s private key. What can they DO with that? Sell all of the Bitcoin Satoshi controls. Which is maybe 1/20th - 5% - of the global supply of Bitcoin. What do you think will happen? Do you think price will crash? If Bitcoin was suddenly half the price would you buy more - knowing that price is temporary, but the VALUE is unchanged. So then - Satoshi’s Bitcoin is now owned by a bunch of other holders. Satoshi has none. And Bitcoin keeps being Bitcoin. Tik tok next block and all that. Not something I’m worried about.

MrRGnome

> What scam? Look at the their listings pages. As well, Jesse Powell was a founding member of the rhymes with "nipple" board. > -Provide a source for their lie about reserves They are the source. They call it proof of reserves but it's an attestation, an audit. Proof of reserves is a set of signed inputs. there are no signed inputs, just the signed attestations of the auditor. https://www.kraken.com/proof-of-reserves Described as "An advanced cryptographic accounting procedure conducted regularly by trusted accountants" Real proof of reserves (like what river is currently doing) are specified in the original repository for the term: https://github.com/ElementsProject/reserves "For every proof-of-reserves, a Bitcoin transaction will be generated. This transaction will be invalidated so that it cannot be broadcast to the Bitcoin network. This is done by adding an input that refers to a non-existing UTXO. The remainder of the transaction consists of UTXOs owned by the proving party and a single output with the sum of the values of all the UTXOs in the inputs. The prover signs this transaction to prove that it can spend the UTXOs." See the difference? One is not proof of anything, it's a testimonial. The other is a bitcoin proof that the exchange can spend the reserves. > -Enabling....OK, so where you get your coins from? Let me guess OTC...because people dont lie or steal. I typically use bisq, bullbitcoin, bitcoinwell, or other bitcoin only and ideally non-custodial exchanges. In America I can only recommend cashapp, strike, and river as all custody their own coins even if they aren't non-custodial, are bitcoin only, and in rivers case they have an actual proof of their reserves. > -Casino - again with the rhetoric....but no proof. How is Kraken a casino, again? You never explained, just recited the mantra... They actively promote people to engage in scams for their own profit. This is evident in all the scams they list and their market materials. Do you remember when they hired dan held and he was posting shitcoin nonsense to usher people to kraken daily? look it up. Have you never received a kraken new token marketing email? They push these scams harder than the dealer on the corner slings coke. > -Assumptions? Well, you said it, not me... I am accusing you of being roundly misinformed and making egregious assumptions about me and it seems Kraken as well, yes. >-Pretending BTC is an investment...so what about all those people whos investment didnt go down as much as stocks, fiat or other "investment vehicles"....sources please. You want a source that Bitcoin is more than an investment? How about all the people like me using it as our daily and native currency? My first use cases was as a state machine for due dilligence data posting merkle tree roots as proofs to chain. You have projects liek opentimestamps, you have countries like el salvador adopting it as money, you have wallets like liana enabling complex programmable use cases like last wills and testaments and emergency recovery solutions - Bitcoin is more than an investment. People seeing only an investment are typically the most amateur users. > -Who said investors are blind to Bitcoins other valuable properties....in fact thast WHY THEY INVESTED. BECAUSE IT HAS VALUE. I did. If they weren't blind they'd run a node. Do you run a node? It's the only way to remain secure in your transactions. You can tell very obviously from the public [node count](https://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/historical.html) that most investors do not participate in the bitcoin protocol or verifying at all. >Id love to debate you all day on reddit but this is sufficient to show you the ignorance of your argument. You can take the win if you need. I'd love to debate you all day on reddit, but this is sufficient to show you the EXTREME IGNORANCE of your commentary and position. **STOP PROMOTING AND SUPPORTING SHITCOIN CASINOS**

reekypits

-What scam? -Provide a source for their lie about reserves -Sounds like an emotional argument -Enabling....OK, so where you get your coins from? Let me guess OTC...because people dont lie or steal. -Casino - again with the rhetoric....but no proof. How is Kraken a casino, again? You never explained, just recited the mantra... -Objective - so ....the source? I mean ...sources...since its so obvious. -Assumptions? Well, you said it, not me... -You have to run a node to buy Bitcoin and not get ripped off? -Pretending BTC is an investment...so what about all those people whos investment didnt go down as much as stocks, fiat or other "investment vehicles"....sources please. Maybe all these financial institutions are retards thinking their billions are safe in BTC. Nailed it, bro...big brain move. Your so much smarter than every financial institution in the game. Maybe you should work for Blackrock and you woldnt need to shitpost on Reddit for a living. -Who said investors are blind to Bitcoins other valuable properties....in fact thast WHY THEY INVESTED. BECAUSE IT HAS VALUE. Id love to debate you all day on reddit but this is sufficient to show you the ignorance of your argument. You can take the win if you need.

random_user_428134

I'm just saying the VALUE will plummet. I'm not saying it won't continue to exist. All of the catalysts that have driven the price higher (ETF's, MicroStrategy, Corporate purchasing, etc) will no longer be a factor. The mainstream will no longer want it. So goes demand, so goes the value.

Shoddy_Watercress926

You are not talking about position or CFD when you own bitcoins. If you own 3 bitcoin you will own 3 bitcoin period. QUANTITY will not change. What will change is the VALUE of your holdings. Could be worth 180k today, 3 millions in 10 years, or 3 dollars. See it as an actual physical coin. Your coin might be worth millions or 0, you ll still have the physical coin, right ? Same applies here !

biba8163

> The GOAT implementation crypto wont be payments like 99% of dumb casuals think - 97% RWA are just stablecoins - The biggest growth in dominance in marketcap in crypto is BTC and then Stablecoins as a percentage of marketcap - The biggest crypto use case that is being adopted by the developing world is usage of stabelecoins for money movement and savings accounts to hedge inflating currencies. - Transactions volumes in crypto are more and more driven by Stablecoins as Ethereum, its L2s, Solana, Tron, Avalanche, Algorand, etc are becoming competing networks that are rails for stablecoin. The stablecoin market settled more than $10.8T worth of transactions in 2023 – or US$2.3T if we exclude “inorganic” activity, like bots or automated transactions (Stablecoins and the New Payments Landscape - Coinbase) - Ripple has pretty much given up on XRP and launching its own Stablecoin and calls Stablecoins a revolutionary pivot..efficiently transfer value across borders, bypassing traditional banking systems and eliminating many associated risks https://ripple.com/reports/the-functional-evolution-of-digital-assets.pdf - JP Morgan says Stablecoins are "UNLOCKING $120 BILLION VALUE IN CROSS-BORDER PAYMENTS" https://www.jpmorgan.com/onyx/documents/mCBDCs-Unlocking-120-billion-value-in-cross-border-payments.pdf?trk=article-ssr-frontend-pulse_little-text-block - The Stablecoin volume is forecast to continue increasing YOY and the supply is expected to reach at least $3 Trillion by 2030 **June 2017** - BTC dominance 38% - ETH 33% - XRP 10% - Remaining Alts COMBINED 19% **Today** - BTC dominance 56.5% - ETH 14.75% - StableCoins 10% - BNB 3.59% - SOL 3.37% - Remaining Alts COMBINED 11.79% > Huge, complicated contract deals can be signed anywhere on the planet in the matter of minutes using TVL RWA. This is truly a gamechanger like the internet. Source. Any evidence of this occurring today? Any evidence to show this trend is picking up steam? If not, this is just speculation like the rest of crypto use cases.

PretendJury

No, it is things going up. It is a natural phenomenon of economics. No one would invest if things didn’t get more valuable. Bitcoin is a perfect example of something going up without the government controlling it. Sure, when the government dumps trillions into the economy as just happened, inflation increases. Bitcoin is worse than inflation. It has runaway increases due only to speculation. Not utility. Could you explain why it was $100 at one time and now $60,000? How is it (without greed and FOMO) any more valuable. The one item that has increased far more than is reasonable is Bitcoin. The party will soon be over. NO BASE VALUE. Just like “Fiat.”

ryana8

Holy tinfoil hat. It’s clear you’ve never worked in software or finance… ~75% of Bitcoin owners hold less than around 0.01 worth of Bitcoin.. Blackeock isn’t trying to scare anyone out of anything… It wouldn’t yield anything worth issuing a statement about lol. It’s like you issuing some weird statement on Facebook or instagram to all of your friends so you can gain a penny. There’s no VALUE

thatguythatbowls

The only time I missed the “opportunity of a lifetime” was from 2000-2020. Your entire paragraph perfectly explains just how worthless Bitcoin is. US Money is backed by the US economy, which makes over $25T a year. Produces over $25T a year. Bitcoin has produced an entire $0.00 over its entire existence. In your black swan scenario, do you ACTUALLY think Bitcoin would survive that? Seriously? In the 6 months we were worried about a recession in 2022 Bitcoin lost 67% of its value. 67%!! And you think a depression would help it??? LOLOLOL. “Can’t be diluted” but yet there’s already tons of corporate ownership. ETF’s in place. Governments including the US still hold Bitcoin. What happens if they want to sell? Have you not been paying attention? There is value to Countries’ currencies because those countries have value, they produce goods, they make money. What does Bitcoin do? Its entire worth is based on suckers like you stuffing their entire net worth into it and BELIEVING IT HAS VALUE, there is no value production, and there is no value backing. We have been blessed the last 16 years with what seems like a never ending bull run, where Bitcoin has prospered, what will happen if the economy starts going downhill? History has already proven with Bitcoin that it cannot handle economic pressure. BECAUSE THERE’S NO VALUE TO THE FUCKING THING. Go look up the Dutch Tulips sometime if you really don’t believe what I’m saying. This has all happened before. History always repeats itself when people don’t learn. And they obviously haven’t.

2cents2020

You are confusing PRICE and VALUE PRICE is what is decided by how much people are willing to buy and sell a commodity VALUE is decided by scarcity and demand

way_too_much_sauce

Hi, I'll try to explain this as a layman myself without intricacies commonly introduced by the BTC community 1. bitcoin is backed by the network 2. people will accept bitcoin as long as other people desire it. People accept dollars because everyone else desires dollars. Same with precious metals. The same goes for bitcoin - the people who want it, REALLY want it. Therefore, its valued at 59k dollars at the moment. It doesn't matter if other people think it's worth less or more, or that you need food and shelter to survive on a daily basis. Those who want bitcoin are thinking about the future and worried that they may lose the value they worked hard to store. I really like to think about this as bitcoin as investing in people of the world, and fiat as investing in government. Therefore, you can pick your side. Here's a thought experiment: if you are starving to death, and you had 1 hour to live, and someone offered you a sandwich or a gold bar - what do you take? 3. people are invested in things (such as bitcoin) to have as much VALUE as possible. dollars don't always equal value 4. most people don't say this. the government will find ways to tax you but that's another conversation Feel free to debate any of these points and let me know if you agree or not!

Otherwise-Trifle892

What is there to understand? There is NOTHING like Bitcoin. It is a DECENTRALISED monetary store of VALUE. There is no head of Bitcoin. 21 million (even less than that because some are lost) It's digital Gold, it's better than gold. It's perfect money. It's not tangible, but neither is the internet. When the internet first came around, it was a way to share information without a centralised entity. Emails were invented, meaning we didn't have to post a letter and have a courier take however long to ship it. The internet allowed the entire world to share information. Bitcoin does that for money, without corruption and control. I can be in a remote part of Africa, unable to open a bank account. With a cellular connection, be able to share value with a family member thousands of miles away. Permissionless, decentralised, finite, digital gold. If you don't see the value in that, I don't know how to help you. There's nothing like it.

Southern-Interview51

If someone pays $50k for a bottle of water, that doesn't mean the value is now $50k. In finance you will learn a lot of assets are mispriced. Point is, I wouldn't give you a bottle of water for free if someone else was willing to pay $50k for it. Same goes for Bitcoin. Bitcoin's PRICE does not prove VALUE.

Southern-Interview51

This post is for those that skipped finance 101 and never learned the difference between VALUE and PRICE.

MinimalistMindset35

Then if you’ve done your research, you’ve thought about the implications of this technology, you understand it’s VALUE, you’ve paid attention to adoption rate, you understand it’s political power, why would you view Bitcoin as risky? There are two types of thinkers, Bitcoin thinkers and fiat thinkers. You view the world via a fiat lens and through that perspective Bitcoin is treated like any other stock/company. Bitcoin requires a paradigm shift. You haven’t shifted your perspective. Bitcoin is a risk to fiat. It is demonetizing fiat and fiat doesn’t want that.

Libertos

You need to understand history of money, inflation, the Federal Reserve, Central banks and the power of TRUST and BELIEF which is really what gives VALUE to money. As people wakeup to the ponzi acheme of Fiat / Govt debt / Central banks / Money printing (that is complete unsustainable). Many will ask “what are my options to save my money and not lose to inflation?” Traditional assets: Stocks, Real Estate and Gold (primarily). But we live in a mostly digital world now. So guess what is the best performing asset in the last 15 years, that is COMPLETELY decentralized (cannot be stopped), can transfer value in minutes around the globe in minutes with no 3rd party or KYC and can be secured by storing / memorizng 12 words in case you need to get out of Dodge? Start here: “The Creature from Jekyyl Island” and “The Bitcoin Standard” You will need 100+ hours to get the basics down. “It is, what it is” - Joe Pesci

biba8163

> Banker shitcoin XRP bagholders could only dream of this being a Banker Shitcoin. Banks has no interest in XRP. JP Morgan's paper about CDBC/Stablecoins is "UNLOCKING $120 BILLION VALUE IN CROSS-BORDER PAYMENTS" why banks have no interest in XRP: - **High volatility of XRP leading to limited willingness from banks in using it to facilitate payments** - **Relatively high costs owing to spreads between fiat and XRP** https://www.jpmorgan.com/onyx/documents/mCBDCs-Unlocking-120-billion-value-in-cross-border-payments.pdf?trk=article-ssr-frontend-pulse_little-text-block In 2024, Ripple itself also says Stablecoins provide revolutionary ways to transfer value across borders and reshape the financial world and Ripple is now using investor money to buy a company to launch their own stablecoin > Stablecoins like USDC offer a revolutionary pivot... efficiently transfer value across borders, bypassing traditional banking systems and eliminating many associated risks....Lower transaction costs compared to traditional banking. As low-fee alternatives to traditional money transfer methods, stablecoins can facilitate global transfers without foreign exchange fees. As the integration of stablecoins into the banking system continues, they promise to reshape the financial world, offering enhanced efficiency, inclusivity and innovation. This evolution is not just about adopting new technologies but is a step towards a more interconnected and resilient global financial system. https://ripple.com/reports/the-functional-evolution-of-digital-assets.pdf

CVV1

The idea of digital property where we go to work or hangout that has VALUE attached to it is incredibly stupid. We can hangout with our friends online in Fortnite for free.

biba8163

It's almost as if XRP is a pump and dump token that noobs keep falling over and over again for and now Gensler has become a scapegoat for why it also dumps... - XRP was $0.63 at the beginning of this year - XRP was $0.80 in July 2023 when they won the SEC case and bagholders were saying they were gone to moon once they win - XRP was $3.50 in 2018 **2016** > "We’ve reached a tipping point where financial institutions are moving beyond blockchain experimentation and projects to real world applications that are driving significant bank-to-bank volume,” said Ripple CEO and co-founder Chris Larsen...Ripple’s growing, global network includes 12 of the top 50 global banks, 10 banks in commercial deal phases, and over 30 bank pilots completed, among many others also using Ripple’s solutions. https://web.archive.org/web/20220518122127/https://ripple.com/ripple-press/financial-institutions-join-ripples-global-network/ Ripple **deleted** this page and all the hype and lies https://ripple.com/ripple-press/financial-institutions-join-ripples-global-network/ **2017** > Forty Seven Japanese Banks Move Towards Commercial Phase Using Ripple...Over 90 banks globally are working with Ripple, including top global banks such as Santander, Bank of America and Axis Bank. http://web.archive.org/web/20170603165808/https://ripple.com/insights/forty-seven-japanese-banks-move-towards-commercial-phase-using-ripple/ Ripple **deleted** this page and all the hype and lies **2018** > "major banks will use XRP as a liquidity tool in 2018" and "an order of magnitude dozens of banks" will be using XRP in 2019 - Brad Garlinghouse https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/05/cnbc-interview-with-brad-garlinghouse-ripple-ceo.html Look at the JP Morgan about how CDBC/Stablecoins is "UNLOCKING $120 BILLION VALUE IN CROSS-BORDER PAYMENTS" and it tells you why XRP won't be adopted by banks: - **High volatility of XRP leading to limited willingness from banks in using it to facilitate payments** - **Relatively high costs owing to spreads between fiat and XRP** https://www.jpmorgan.com/onyx/documents/mCBDCs-Unlocking-120-billion-value-in-cross-border-payments.pdf?trk=article-ssr-frontend-pulse_little-text-block In 2024, **Ripple itself also says Stablecoins provide revolutionary ways to transfer value across borders and reshape the financial world and Ripple is now using investor money to buy a company to launch their own stablecoin** > Stablecoins like USDC offer a revolutionary pivot... efficiently transfer value across borders, bypassing traditional banking systems and eliminating many associated risks....Lower transaction costs compared to traditional banking. As low-fee alternatives to traditional money transfer methods, stablecoins can facilitate global transfers without foreign exchange fees. As the integration of stablecoins into the banking system continues, they promise to reshape the financial world, offering enhanced efficiency, inclusivity and innovation. This evolution is not just about adopting new technologies but is a step towards a more interconnected and resilient global financial system. https://ripple.com/reports/the-functional-evolution-of-digital-assets.pdf *This was after telling them in 2019 that StableCoins backed by U.S Dollar don't solve ANY problems and that XRP is the Standard bridging currency used for money transfers and remittance.* > If you give them a dollar for deposits, they’ll give you a JPM Coin that you can then move within the JPM ledger. Wait a minute, just use the dollar!" he said. "I don’t understand. If you’re just moving within the JPM ledger, and it has to be dollar-to-dollar, one-to-one backing, I don't understand what problem that solves. - Brad Garlinghouse in 2019 https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2019/03/06/ripple-ceo-brad-garlinghouse-on-jpm-coin-other-banks-wont-use-it/

swift_trout

The arithmetic is not complicated. There are 2.7 trillion dollars in circulation. That number is growing. There are 19.7 million Bitcoin There will NEVER be more than 21 million. That means that the VALUE of one Bitcoin is $136,000. The price is now $65,000. Half the value. That’s a good price.

biba8163

Here are some bookmarks and saves. **2016** > "We’ve reached a tipping point where financial institutions are moving beyond blockchain experimentation and projects to real world applications that are driving significant bank-to-bank volume,” said Ripple CEO and co-founder Chris Larsen...Ripple’s growing, global network includes 12 of the top 50 global banks, 10 banks in commercial deal phases, and over 30 bank pilots completed, among many others also using Ripple’s solutions. https://web.archive.org/web/20220518122127/https://ripple.com/ripple-press/financial-institutions-join-ripples-global-network/ Ripple scammers **deleted** this page and all the hype and lies https://ripple.com/ripple-press/financial-institutions-join-ripples-global-network/ **2017** > Forty Seven Japanese Banks Move Towards Commercial Phase Using Ripple...Over 90 banks globally are working with Ripple, including top global banks such as Santander, Bank of America and Axis Bank. http://web.archive.org/web/20170603165808/https://ripple.com/insights/forty-seven-japanese-banks-move-towards-commercial-phase-using-ripple/ Ripple scammers **deleted** this page and all the hype and lies **2018** > "major banks will use XRP as a liquidity tool in 2018" and "an order of magnitude dozens of banks" will be using XRP in 2019 - Brad Garlinghouse https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/05/cnbc-interview-with-brad-garlinghouse-ripple-ceo.html Look at the JP Morgan about how CDBC/Stablecoins is "UNLOCKING $120 BILLION VALUE IN CROSS-BORDER PAYMENTS" and it tells you why XRP won't be adopted by banks: - **High volatility of XRP leading to limited willingness from banks in using it to facilitate payments** - **Relatively high costs owing to spreads between fiat and XRP** https://www.jpmorgan.com/onyx/documents/mCBDCs-Unlocking-120-billion-value-in-cross-border-payments.pdf?trk=article-ssr-frontend-pulse_little-text-block In 2024, **Ripple itself also says Stablecoins provide revolutionary ways to transfer value across borders and reshape the financial world and Ripple is now using investor money to buy a company to launch their own stablecoin** > Stablecoins like USDC offer a revolutionary pivot... efficiently transfer value across borders, bypassing traditional banking systems and eliminating many associated risks....Lower transaction costs compared to traditional banking. As low-fee alternatives to traditional money transfer methods, stablecoins can facilitate global transfers without foreign exchange fees. As the integration of stablecoins into the banking system continues, they promise to reshape the financial world, offering enhanced efficiency, inclusivity and innovation. This evolution is not just about adopting new technologies but is a step towards a more interconnected and resilient global financial system. https://ripple.com/reports/the-functional-evolution-of-digital-assets.pdf *This was after scamming investors and telling them in 2019 that StableCoins backed by U.S Dollar don't solve ANY problems and that XRP is the Standard bridging currency used for money transfers and remittance.* > If you give them a dollar for deposits, they’ll give you a JPM Coin that you can then move within the JPM ledger. Wait a minute, just use the dollar!" he said. "I don’t understand. If you’re just moving within the JPM ledger, and it has to be dollar-to-dollar, one-to-one backing, I don't understand what problem that solves. - Brad Garlinghouse in 2019 https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2019/03/06/ripple-ceo-brad-garlinghouse-on-jpm-coin-other-banks-wont-use-it/

GiverTakerMaker

Fink is not your friend. He is trying to convince people bitcoin is JUST A STORE OF VALUE. This false narrative suits him. If people start using bitcoin as a permissionless currency his empire crumbles.

biba8163

Ripple has been scamming people with the news that banks are on the verge of adopting XRP since 2016. People are still falling for this 8 years later. **2016** > "We’ve reached a tipping point where financial institutions are moving beyond blockchain experimentation and projects to real world applications that are driving significant bank-to-bank volume,” said Ripple CEO and co-founder Chris Larsen...Ripple’s growing, global network includes 12 of the top 50 global banks, 10 banks in commercial deal phases, and over 30 bank pilots completed, among many others also using Ripple’s solutions. https://web.archive.org/web/20220518122127/https://ripple.com/ripple-press/financial-institutions-join-ripples-global-network/ Ripple scammers **deleted** this page and all the hype and lies https://ripple.com/ripple-press/financial-institutions-join-ripples-global-network/ **2017** > Forty Seven Japanese Banks Move Towards Commercial Phase Using Ripple...Over 90 banks globally are working with Ripple, including top global banks such as Santander, Bank of America and Axis Bank. http://web.archive.org/web/20170603165808/https://ripple.com/insights/forty-seven-japanese-banks-move-towards-commercial-phase-using-ripple/ Ripple scammers **deleted** this page and all the hype and lies **2018** > "major banks will use XRP as a liquidity tool in 2018" and "an order of magnitude dozens of banks" will be using XRP in 2019 - Brad Scamminghouse https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/05/cnbc-interview-with-brad-garlinghouse-ripple-ceo.html Look at the JP Morgan about how CDBC/Stablecoins is "UNLOCKING $120 BILLION VALUE IN CROSS-BORDER PAYMENTS" and it tells you why XRP won't be adopted by banks: - High volatility of XRP leading to limited willingness from banks in using it to facilitate payments - Relatively high costs owing to spreads between fiat and XRP https://www.jpmorgan.com/onyx/documents/mCBDCs-Unlocking-120-billion-value-in-cross-border-payments.pdf?trk=article-ssr-frontend-pulse_little-text-block In 2024, Ripple itself also says Stablecoins provide revolutionary ways to transfer value across borders and reshape the financial world and Ripple is now using investor money to buy a company to launch their own stablecoin > Stablecoins like USDC offer a revolutionary pivot... efficiently transfer value across borders, bypassing traditional banking systems and eliminating many associated risks....Lower transaction costs compared to traditional banking. As low-fee alternatives to traditional money transfer methods, stablecoins can facilitate global transfers without foreign exchange fees. As the integration of stablecoins into the banking system continues, they promise to reshape the financial world, offering enhanced efficiency, inclusivity and innovation. This evolution is not just about adopting new technologies but is a step towards a more interconnected and resilient global financial system. This was after scamming investors and telling them in 2019 that StableCoins backed by U.S Dollar don't solve ANY problems and that XRP is the Standard bridging currency used for money transfers and remittance. > If you give them a dollar for deposits, they’ll give you a JPM Coin that you can then move within the JPM ledger. Wait a minute, just use the dollar!" he said. "I don’t understand. If you’re just moving within the JPM ledger, and it has to be dollar-to-dollar, one-to-one backing, I don't understand what problem that solves. - Brad Garlinghouse in 2019 https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2019/03/06/ripple-ceo-brad-garlinghouse-on-jpm-coin-other-banks-wont-use-it/

na3than

Of course! It says "$1,000,000 VALUE" right there on the bag. Why would they lie?

AppointmentEither789

Companies that PRODUCE goods and service (VALUE) unlike bit shit fuck coin that is fools gold

zxsmart

Only a fool sells a deflationary currency to pay off debt denominated in an inflationary one. Debt is GOOD. Borrowing in an INFLATIONARY CURRENCY THAT YOU KNOW WILL LOSE VALUE, is an ABSOLUTE NO-BRAINER. AND debt is not a taxable event! I swear to god some of the people on /r/bitcoin are the most economically ignorant people =/

Rationally-Skeptical

It's needs a use case to maintain value long-term. "Protection from inflation" begs the question of "how?" A use case is how it does that. Apologies on the second point, I meant to say THE VALUE OF censorship resistance is limited. It can ultimately be constrained by cutting off the on-/off-ramps but we're aways away from that. Definitely need a more practical use case to invest. Love the tech, looking for the application.

0fficial_moderator

Fundamental analysis applies probabilities as well- it just measures different variables that are FUNDAMENTAL to the VALUE of a company.

WhiteFluff21

Yeah but whats the actual VALUE, like a stock is part a company, a partial ownership.

Yodel_And_Hodl_Mode

> Obviously, we need this. I disagree. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Bitcoin become a global currency, but it's far more important for Bitcoin to be a store of value. You said so, yourself, only you didn't realize what you were saying because you're used to thinking in dollars. You said: > It's a huge deal so that central banks and governments can't **steal our time.** Exactly. Now think it through. People say "Time is money" but that's just a silly saying. Time is actually VALUE, because time is very *valuable.* Thus, what matters most is the ability to store value. That's what Bitcoin does well. I do think Lightning - or some other layer 2 solution - will turn Bitcoin into a currency that's cheap and easy for anyone to spend, but smart people aren't going to spend it for the kind of everyday purchases where you'd use currency. Smart people are going to save their Bitcoin. If you could go to the store and pay with stocks instead of dollars, would you? Hopefully not, since the point of owning stocks is to gain value over time. For me, that's the point of owning Bitcoin: to gain value over time.

swift_trout

The one thing Bitcoin does better than any asset is HOLD VALUE. So HOLD BITCOIN. HODL. Buy more and HODL.

StatisticalMan

Is BTC value impacted by the Fed or the price in dollars? If the fed causes the price of everything to go up including BTC has the VALUE of BTC gone up?

CoolCatforCrypto

Your take on innovation and how it relates to btc is completely wrong. I am accepting your dissenting view and explaining why it is very far off. The innovation in btc is not your normal innovation like windows, the web browser, the iphone and the keurig k cup coffee machine were. The innovation of blockchain is not in tech it is in its DESIGN PHILOSOPHY: HOW EXISTING TECH IS ASSEMBLED IN A UNIQUE WAY TO DELIVER VALUE. All caps is not designed to scream at you but to point out a fundamental fact about bitcoin as a crypto and the blockchain it runs on. When you drill down you will find most of the tech that btc is built on is not all that innovative - it is off the shelf tech, again, ASSEMBLED AND DESIGNED IN A UNIQUE WAY that delivers bitcoin/blockchain uniqueness: To wit: Database sharding - 10 years old Key pair encryption - 50 years old Interplanetary File System - 10 years old State machine replication - 50 years old There's a bunch of other stuff you could list but these are the key pieces of tech. There's not much else out there that is more "elegant" than bitcoin blockchain. I don't understand what you are getting at at all here. Nothing better - more innovative - is going to replace bitcoin blockchain. And if you seek serious discussion on bitcoin you must understand bitcoin as a blockchain first. No blockchain, no bitcoin. BTC owes its existence to blockchain, not the other way around. About me: I have a small IT consulting shop, incl blockchain. I have completed two courses of study. on blockchain. One at the Blockchain Council and one at the Wharton School Univ of Penn \[exec education\]. Cheers, CCC

Full-Atmosphere-4818

Nice to see a well-thought out response. Here are my counter-responses. First, there is no evidence that inflationary currency (and the resulting lack of savings it causes among citizens), causes an economy to do better. That Keynesian philosophy is false. In fact, the best growing GDPs the last 100 years are ones that had the highest savings rates and lowest spending. The majority of the US dollars ever printed have been printed since the pandemic. How do people feel about their personal economics? Second, currencies only have value if people think it does. Supposedly, currencies represent the assets of production of a whole country. But Argentina and Turkey have runaway inflation even as their GDP grows. The VALUE of their currency is shrinking as the amount of currency grows. More of a currency is always dilutive and thus always inflationary. Thus, you need investments that have a chance of beating inflation. Third, the dollar has lost 99% of its value since going off gold in 1932 and 95% since Nixon ended the gold exchange with other nations in the 1970s. The "hardest" money does best and that means low inflation and less debasement. Nothing has or ever will beat BTC on that front. BTC is a deflationary money supply. In fact, 17% of all mined BTC has already been lost! Mostly due to lost keys. But it has not stopped the value from going up millions of percent. Although that won't continue, the fact that BTC is harder than gold, is more portable and more democratic, it does very, very well I believe it will continue to trounce the dollar for decades to come, in fits and spurts.

vario

> DISCLAIMER: $HEGE IS A MEMECOIN WITH NO INTRINSIC VALUE. DON’T RISK MONEY YOU ARE AFRAID OF LOSING. THE PRICE MAY GO UP OR IT MAY GO DOWN. WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE PRICE OF THE TOKEN This is literally the footer of the website. No different. Good luck with the unregulated gambling.

eggerium

Private Food gardens are the first Step for recultivaton the planet and people! Vegan is Human, no need for killing. In the Garden growes the truth... No need for Believing in any hypocrite Religion! I need food, not Stress! Because of that: I hate Hypocrite Religion! The Nature teach life, the church only NONSENSE! God's PROHIBITION is bread for the church DESTROYING the planet and people, with Patronizing and Arroganz doesn't make sense!... Basic Lifestock has roots! We need to create Associations to care for us and our Environment! Not schools for following Nonsense only! Good gardens growing good life, prayers are for NOTHING, food has VALUE, the church only big words. Handwork produce Value, Mouth work produce only Stress and mess!

virus5877

because the more money they print, the less value each individual dollar has. Turns out, they can increase the SUPPLY as much as they want, but the overall VALUE is determined outside of their control. LOL

shibe5

**2010** * **Why Bitcoin Can’t Be a Currency** - The Underground Economist **2011** * **So, That’s the End of Bitcoin Then** - Forbes * **The Bitcoin Is Dying. Whatever** - Gizmodo Australia * **Why Bitcoin Will Fail as a Currency** - The Calculating Investor **2012** * **Wired, Tired, Expired for 2012: EXPIRED** - Wired **2013** * **Bitcoin Is A Remarkable Innovation, Here’s Why It Will Fail** - Salon * **From Game Over, Bitcoin. Where Is The Next Human-based Digital Currency?** - OUI Share * **Bitcoin Is A Joke** - Business Insider * **A Prediction: Bitcoin Is Doomed to Fail** - The New York Times **2014** * **An early obituary for bitcoin** - Reuters * **Bitcoin Bears Say Told You So** - Bloomberg * **The Exact Date for Bitcoin’s Final Crash to $0.00** - Wall Street Daily **2015** * **R.I.P. Bitcoin. It’s time to move on** - Washington Post * **Bitcoin Is Getting Annihilated** - Business Insider * **Five Reasons Bitcoin Revolution is Over** - Sputnik News **2016** * **Bitcoin Is Dead, Long Live the Blockchain** - The Street * **From Bitcoin’s Rallying Again—But Isn’t Getting Much Attention Anymore** - WSJ * **Bitcoin was supposed to change the world. What happened?** - Vox **2017** * **Why Bitcoin Is Worthless** - Seeking Alpha * **Bitcoin has no future because of its anonymity, SocGen CEO says** * **What is a Good Price For Bitcoin and Other Cryptocurrencies? Zero** - Jonathan Harris **2018** * **BTC will be ‘WORTHLESS and have ZERO VALUE’ in 2019** - Express * **Sorry, Bitcoin Fans. Digital Currency Is Still a Dream** - Bloomberg * **There’s a ‘decent probability’ bitcoin goes to zero, says Vanguard economist** - MarketWatch * **Bitcoin has fallen to its lowest point since November and will probably be totally wiped out** - Independent **2019** * **The END of Bitcoin as we know it** - Irish Tech News * **Treasury Secretary Seals Bitcoin’s Impending Death by a Thousand Cuts** - CCN * **Bitcoin – The end of an Era** - TradingView **2020** * **Cryptocurrency is Dead** - Finextra * **The Value of Bitcoin Will Drop to Zero** - Cointelegraph **2021** * **The Bitcoin Delusion** - The Spectator * **The fundamental value of bitcoin is zero** - Insider * **Adios Bitcoin!** - The Institutional Risk Analyst **2022** * **Crypto Is Dead** - The Spectator * **Crypto-assets Are Worth Nothing** - Politico https\:\/\/miningsyndicate\.com/blogs/news/the-most-memorable-bitcoin-obituaries-through-the-years

Spaceseeds

Redditor for 6 weeks teaching us all propaganda, sounds legit. BITCOIN IS RISKY. IT IS VOLATILE AND COULD LOSE 50% OF ITS VALUE, BUY STOCKS BECAUSE THEY DONT DO THAT. Sure buddy. Diversification, sell the winners to buy the losers. Go ahead. More sats for the rest of us

jps_

Confidently right. They both VALUE the assets they hold differently. The reason they value the assets differently is because they have to. Because one asset can't be liquidated immediately, it has a lower value (per actual ETH) than the asset that can be liquidated, and the difference is the time premium assigned to the locked interval.

Haunting-Student-756

BTC doesn’t care what u think. Tick tock next blocks. PEOPLE WHO CHOOSE FIAT AS A STORE OF VALUE WE CALL THEM POOR

PreventableMan

i'm just happy that the idjits that was screaming "HALFING IS COMING VALUE WILL BE CRAZY THIS TIME" and shown incorrect. we all knew this halfing was different

Girafferage

Honestly, I dont think the VALUE of Bitcoin will get there in that time, but I do believe the price will be there. Inflation will eat away at your loan either way - win or lose.

FinestLife

Btw the Euro depreciated 14% since 2021 so the logic is the same for the Euro. Entire point if the post is that measuring "all time high" in a currency does not necessarily mean it's VALUE is really at a new all time high, not this time anyhow.

FinestLife

Now I see your hangup. My original post, which I never re-edited said the VALUE of BTC has not even come close to the value of the last all time high. The entire issue is that the perceived ATH keeps getting put out as it now has a higher value than ever, when that is not accurate, whether you are buying a house with it now vs 2021 or a potato. It's not really arguable, it is what it is.

brennanfee

I don't have time to teach Economics 101 in forums. But one of those is about commitment to repayment of debt, and the other is the pool of available dollars. They are only related that as the pool of dollars increases, the VALUE of the outstanding debt and dollars decreases. Our "full faith and credit" is only a statement that all of our debt will be paid no matter what. They are orthogonal, and by you "equating" them indicates a level of ignorance that is troubling.

yekcowrebbaj

So basically your only argument for Dogecoin is that it is an extra volatile money substitute? You realize that “money” is defined by three qualities- medium of exchange, as a unit of counting, and STORE OF VALUE- which in theory means it does not depreciate. Currency was/is traditionally a store of value until the US Government introduced quantitative easing. Cryptocurrency, specifically Bitcoin, was created to combat unlimited inflation fiat and you have simply replaced it with a picture of a dog. There is nothing revolutionary about how you’re approaching macroeconomics and by saying you don’t want Doge to act as stable store of value you’re essentially saying you don’t want it to be actually used as currency. There is nothing good about a dollar that can swing 20% in a day, has unlimited inflation, and won’t even be close to the current inflation rate of the dollar until like 2075 or something if the model even ends up working like they want.

the_lone_unlearned

Yes, the VALUE in Bitcoin is that it is great money. It has high utility as money and is perfectly scarce, that's what you want in money. People can define what is and isn't intrinsic value any which way they want. It is meaningless. All that matters is the actual value the thing has in serving a specific purpose or purposes. Bitcoin has zero value as a component in physical technology, while Gold has value there. Bitcoin has zero value for making pretty jewelry, or making physical coins, while Gold has value there. Bitcoin has zero value as a money printer for govts and central banks, while fiat has value there (some people would say that is 'bad' value though). Bitcoin also has zero value as a place to live, or as a company that pays earnings, because it is neither of those things. What Bitcoin does have value as is digital money, and that is what everyone is using it for, so that is the only thing we need to judge it on. And anyone who actually understands Bitcoin knows it has immense value as digital money. Thus the question of intrinsic value is meaningless. The necessary question is "what is Bitcoin's value as digital money?" and the answer is that the value is enormous.

thetaleech

The ONLY aspect of gold that is superior is malleability. Silver is right there with it. Copper is malleable, but not quite as much. We are able to make copper just as thin as gold - it’s “less easy” but not in any significant way with modern tech. Copper and silver are both resistant to corrosion too. Everything you listed is true, but also true of copper (except luster) and are all just more reasons we choose copper. It’s just as good as gold but LESS RARE, LESS SHINY, AND THEREFORE CHEAPER. My entire argument is built to shut down the anticrypto crowd who says “CRYPTO IS NOT LIKE GOLD BC GOLD HAS INHERENT VALUE.” The inherent value of gold is simply not a real factor in its real world value. That is about RARITY, NOT USEFULNESS. BTC IS like gold.

Frogolocalypse

> SO VOLATILE CAN NOT BE A STORE OF VALUE. I started buying bitcoin at $400. How am I doing? Objectively.

vovouenas

man, just do your research on what a store of value actually is. This is not about who’s an expert or not on reddit. This is about education. Something SO VOLATILE CAN NOT BE A STORE OF VALUE. It is as simple as that. If it worked for you, that’s amazing! It doesn’t make it a store of value, STILL. As simple as that.

NoisePollutioner

Highly upvoted comments like this concern me. Bitcoin's competition is clearly NOT the USD or any other fiat. Bitcoin's competition is true STORE OF VALUE assets, including gold, but most importantly stocks. Stocks are, by far, the most common vehicle for storing value over long time horizons. Almost everyone buys them to fund their retirement, which is often decades away. People who point out how much better Bitcoin is than shitty fiat are missing the point. It's a strawman. Yes we know how much the USD and other fiat sucks for long term value storage. But that's not the question. The question is this: #Why is Bitcoin a better long term store of value than stocks, bonds, and real estate?

analogOnly

My biggest fear here is they pull something like "we'll give 1.5 or 2x in CBDCs what ever you give us in dollars" (meaning 1.5x or 2x the VALUE) to turn people onto it. Then they prevent people from buying BTC (or whatever they choose) with it.

WVBitcoinBoy

It keeps going up because it’s the answer to Money As Debt. It corrects the inflationary fiat system with something better. Growing pains will be bountiful. The old will not want to give up the Guard, even though it’s time to do so. Bitcoin is the next step in our planetary and human evolution. What do you think THAT is worth?? 🤷‍♂️ EVERYTHING WE VALUE ON THIS PLANET DIVIDED BY 2.1 QUADRILLION! *screaming it for the ones in the back*

djduni

Bro you lost ALL respect when you say ignorant shit like the “us vs them” mentality makes it cultlike…no…that truth is what fostered initial INTRINSIC VALUE THROUGH network effect.

o_psiconauta

You're not understanding. You're still attached to the ideal meaning of the words. They didn't wish it into existence. Is just a concept used in finance. In finance the intrinsic value of something is what it will generate as returns for the investor discounted by the risk free rate of the period. Is not related to enjoyment or any subjective measure. Is a concept. And there are methods for calculating it. But is just a concept that any financial asset has the intrinsic value of whatever they will return in the future. And people estimate the future to get a band of intrinsic value. You seem to be thinking of intrinsic value as the subjective value a person can derive from a thing or experience or whatever Wich is completely different for each person, and in that sense, sure, no thing has intrinsic value because each person perceives value differently. BUT THAT IS NOT THE CONCEPT OF INTRINSIC VALUE IN FINANCE. And in this case is not even about proof. Is an axiom that is accepted by finance and economic professionals and investors around the world. The axiom is accepted because it's obvious. It just states that the worth of an asset equals the future returns they can get to investors beyond the risk free rate. In an investing point of view, value is not subjective is just the extra money you get back from a investment.

Background-Paper-686

Tbh OP is a idiot but you are also an idiot. If you would take the slightest second to view the development progress from the past year, see what we have coming up, see how we went from 1B marketcap to 5 mil, to about 35M right now gearing up towards our next 10x, see how we have an $11MILLION dollar investor (who has over 100M in crypto assets) then you wouldn't make such uniformed uneducated comments and wouldn't compare a coin like Catgirl in your mind to a coin like Pepe or Wif (NO VALUE WHATSOEVER). DUMBASS.

RedditxSuxx

Guys, there's NO INTRINSIC VALUE. THerEs No IntRINsic ValUE! THHEERessse noooOO inTrIinnSIICC VALUe bfkdnskdndksmzn 🤮🤮🤮

CantFeelMyFaceNo

Lol imagine if everyone in the world did this, took out a loan to buy Bitcoin. Imagine how much VALUE would be generated from litterly nothing. Infinite money glitch achieved

Buttcoinmodssuck

Michael Saylor is not the CEO of Microstrategy. That’s a basic fact that tells me you haven’t done your research. If you have been in crypto (which isn’t Bitcoin but that another conversation) since 2013 and you STILL don’t UNDERSTAND that Bitcoin is digital property and the VALUE of that, then it’s hopeless. Even just reading the Bitcoin standard should’ve given you an idea of Bitcoin’s value.

am-i-a-peepee

Not really bitcoin, but the fact that people are too stupid to understand and have a hard time grasping what it is. IT’S A DIGITAL CURRENCY THAT OPERATES ON A DECENTRALIZED NETWORK CALLED BLOCKCHAIN THAT ALLOWS FOR PEER TO PEER TRANSACTIONS WITHOUT THE NEED FOR INTERMEDIARIES LIKE BANKS, AND ITS SCARCITY IS ENFORCED BY ITS CODE, MAKING IT A STORE OF VALUE AKIN TO DIGITAL GOLD. All summed up in one sentence and these dumb mfs still won’t get it.