VALUE

Girafferage

Honestly, I dont think the VALUE of Bitcoin will get there in that time, but I do believe the price will be there. Inflation will eat away at your loan either way - win or lose.

FinestLife

Btw the Euro depreciated 14% since 2021 so the logic is the same for the Euro. Entire point if the post is that measuring "all time high" in a currency does not necessarily mean it's VALUE is really at a new all time high, not this time anyhow.

FinestLife

Now I see your hangup. My original post, which I never re-edited said the VALUE of BTC has not even come close to the value of the last all time high. The entire issue is that the perceived ATH keeps getting put out as it now has a higher value than ever, when that is not accurate, whether you are buying a house with it now vs 2021 or a potato. It's not really arguable, it is what it is.

brennanfee

I don't have time to teach Economics 101 in forums. But one of those is about commitment to repayment of debt, and the other is the pool of available dollars. They are only related that as the pool of dollars increases, the VALUE of the outstanding debt and dollars decreases. Our "full faith and credit" is only a statement that all of our debt will be paid no matter what. They are orthogonal, and by you "equating" them indicates a level of ignorance that is troubling.

yekcowrebbaj

So basically your only argument for Dogecoin is that it is an extra volatile money substitute? You realize that “money” is defined by three qualities- medium of exchange, as a unit of counting, and STORE OF VALUE- which in theory means it does not depreciate. Currency was/is traditionally a store of value until the US Government introduced quantitative easing. Cryptocurrency, specifically Bitcoin, was created to combat unlimited inflation fiat and you have simply replaced it with a picture of a dog. There is nothing revolutionary about how you’re approaching macroeconomics and by saying you don’t want Doge to act as stable store of value you’re essentially saying you don’t want it to be actually used as currency. There is nothing good about a dollar that can swing 20% in a day, has unlimited inflation, and won’t even be close to the current inflation rate of the dollar until like 2075 or something if the model even ends up working like they want.

the_lone_unlearned

Yes, the VALUE in Bitcoin is that it is great money. It has high utility as money and is perfectly scarce, that's what you want in money. People can define what is and isn't intrinsic value any which way they want. It is meaningless. All that matters is the actual value the thing has in serving a specific purpose or purposes. Bitcoin has zero value as a component in physical technology, while Gold has value there. Bitcoin has zero value for making pretty jewelry, or making physical coins, while Gold has value there. Bitcoin has zero value as a money printer for govts and central banks, while fiat has value there (some people would say that is 'bad' value though). Bitcoin also has zero value as a place to live, or as a company that pays earnings, because it is neither of those things. What Bitcoin does have value as is digital money, and that is what everyone is using it for, so that is the only thing we need to judge it on. And anyone who actually understands Bitcoin knows it has immense value as digital money. Thus the question of intrinsic value is meaningless. The necessary question is "what is Bitcoin's value as digital money?" and the answer is that the value is enormous.

thetaleech

The ONLY aspect of gold that is superior is malleability. Silver is right there with it. Copper is malleable, but not quite as much. We are able to make copper just as thin as gold - it’s “less easy” but not in any significant way with modern tech. Copper and silver are both resistant to corrosion too. Everything you listed is true, but also true of copper (except luster) and are all just more reasons we choose copper. It’s just as good as gold but LESS RARE, LESS SHINY, AND THEREFORE CHEAPER. My entire argument is built to shut down the anticrypto crowd who says “CRYPTO IS NOT LIKE GOLD BC GOLD HAS INHERENT VALUE.” The inherent value of gold is simply not a real factor in its real world value. That is about RARITY, NOT USEFULNESS. BTC IS like gold.

Frogolocalypse

> SO VOLATILE CAN NOT BE A STORE OF VALUE. I started buying bitcoin at $400. How am I doing? Objectively.

vovouenas

man, just do your research on what a store of value actually is. This is not about who’s an expert or not on reddit. This is about education. Something SO VOLATILE CAN NOT BE A STORE OF VALUE. It is as simple as that. If it worked for you, that’s amazing! It doesn’t make it a store of value, STILL. As simple as that.

NoisePollutioner

Highly upvoted comments like this concern me. Bitcoin's competition is clearly NOT the USD or any other fiat. Bitcoin's competition is true STORE OF VALUE assets, including gold, but most importantly stocks. Stocks are, by far, the most common vehicle for storing value over long time horizons. Almost everyone buys them to fund their retirement, which is often decades away. People who point out how much better Bitcoin is than shitty fiat are missing the point. It's a strawman. Yes we know how much the USD and other fiat sucks for long term value storage. But that's not the question. The question is this: #Why is Bitcoin a better long term store of value than stocks, bonds, and real estate?

analogOnly

My biggest fear here is they pull something like "we'll give 1.5 or 2x in CBDCs what ever you give us in dollars" (meaning 1.5x or 2x the VALUE) to turn people onto it. Then they prevent people from buying BTC (or whatever they choose) with it.

WVBitcoinBoy

It keeps going up because it’s the answer to Money As Debt. It corrects the inflationary fiat system with something better. Growing pains will be bountiful. The old will not want to give up the Guard, even though it’s time to do so. Bitcoin is the next step in our planetary and human evolution. What do you think THAT is worth?? 🤷‍♂️ EVERYTHING WE VALUE ON THIS PLANET DIVIDED BY 2.1 QUADRILLION! *screaming it for the ones in the back*

djduni

Bro you lost ALL respect when you say ignorant shit like the “us vs them” mentality makes it cultlike…no…that truth is what fostered initial INTRINSIC VALUE THROUGH network effect.

o_psiconauta

You're not understanding. You're still attached to the ideal meaning of the words. They didn't wish it into existence. Is just a concept used in finance. In finance the intrinsic value of something is what it will generate as returns for the investor discounted by the risk free rate of the period. Is not related to enjoyment or any subjective measure. Is a concept. And there are methods for calculating it. But is just a concept that any financial asset has the intrinsic value of whatever they will return in the future. And people estimate the future to get a band of intrinsic value. You seem to be thinking of intrinsic value as the subjective value a person can derive from a thing or experience or whatever Wich is completely different for each person, and in that sense, sure, no thing has intrinsic value because each person perceives value differently. BUT THAT IS NOT THE CONCEPT OF INTRINSIC VALUE IN FINANCE. And in this case is not even about proof. Is an axiom that is accepted by finance and economic professionals and investors around the world. The axiom is accepted because it's obvious. It just states that the worth of an asset equals the future returns they can get to investors beyond the risk free rate. In an investing point of view, value is not subjective is just the extra money you get back from a investment.

Background-Paper-686

Tbh OP is a idiot but you are also an idiot. If you would take the slightest second to view the development progress from the past year, see what we have coming up, see how we went from 1B marketcap to 5 mil, to about 35M right now gearing up towards our next 10x, see how we have an $11MILLION dollar investor (who has over 100M in crypto assets) then you wouldn't make such uniformed uneducated comments and wouldn't compare a coin like Catgirl in your mind to a coin like Pepe or Wif (NO VALUE WHATSOEVER). DUMBASS.

RedditxSuxx

Guys, there's NO INTRINSIC VALUE. THerEs No IntRINsic ValUE! THHEERessse noooOO inTrIinnSIICC VALUe bfkdnskdndksmzn 🤮🤮🤮

CantFeelMyFaceNo

Lol imagine if everyone in the world did this, took out a loan to buy Bitcoin. Imagine how much VALUE would be generated from litterly nothing. Infinite money glitch achieved

Buttcoinmodssuck

Michael Saylor is not the CEO of Microstrategy. That’s a basic fact that tells me you haven’t done your research. If you have been in crypto (which isn’t Bitcoin but that another conversation) since 2013 and you STILL don’t UNDERSTAND that Bitcoin is digital property and the VALUE of that, then it’s hopeless. Even just reading the Bitcoin standard should’ve given you an idea of Bitcoin’s value.

am-i-a-peepee

Not really bitcoin, but the fact that people are too stupid to understand and have a hard time grasping what it is. IT’S A DIGITAL CURRENCY THAT OPERATES ON A DECENTRALIZED NETWORK CALLED BLOCKCHAIN THAT ALLOWS FOR PEER TO PEER TRANSACTIONS WITHOUT THE NEED FOR INTERMEDIARIES LIKE BANKS, AND ITS SCARCITY IS ENFORCED BY ITS CODE, MAKING IT A STORE OF VALUE AKIN TO DIGITAL GOLD. All summed up in one sentence and these dumb mfs still won’t get it.

kungfu1

Bitcoin in a nutshell during a bull run: ITS GOING TO $1000000000000000 WHEN WILL IT EVER STOP BITCOIN MAY JJST REACH A NUMERICAL VALUE SCIENTISTS HAVE NEVER SEEN BEFORE! !! Bitcoin in a nutshell during a bear market: WHATS HAPPENING WHY IT NO GO BRRRRRRRRRR MY LIFE IS RUINED

JnyQest

Everyone who has been screaming cycle cycle cycle is a 12 year old at best... lol... the past will never be the future again... if BTC IS A STORE OF VALUE.. buy when you can... hold for as long as you can...

GrandioseEuro

I bet a lot of people who invested in [ASSET WHOSE VALUE HAS NOT GONE UP] wished they invested in [ASSET WHOSE VALUE HAS GONE UP]. _Brought to you by the 20/20 Hindsight Gang_

PopFirm5291

10 Mil per coin or more is the TRUE VALUE of Bitcoin

OlderAndWiserThanYou

> the purpose of Bitcoin doesn't change whatever the price of Bitcoin Ah what? This Bitcoin's (BTC) purpose is STORE OF VALUE, so the price does seem to matter. BTC now just the hooker at a frat party. There's no "deeper meaning" here. That's now elsewhere, if anywhere at all.

PaulVanByte

Mr topsmart why are u wasting time for such a dumb head as me? Do u NEED a proof of your ego or your VALUE?

callebbb

Okay? How much money is buried and never recovered? How much gold was looted, buried and never recovered? Perhaps the only issue you have is that this number is auditable with Bitcoin, while the other situations are not. Ultimately, if the cap of Bitcoin supply was 1 Bitcoin, we could just add more decimal places to increase divisibility. The amount of Bitcoin in circulation doesn’t matter. The nominal number could 21 thousand, 21 million, or just 21, for all I care. It simply doesn’t matter. I still disagree completely with you. More REALISED VALUE has been lost to centralized solutions like MTGOX, FTX, Celsius, etc, than lost seed phrases. Sadly, the whole argument is built on an assumption that the 10 year or older coins are all lost, which is a lofty assumption. I know one thing. Self custody is the only way to protect one’s assets from government overreach and confiscation. They did it with Gold…

callebbb

You’re valuing the lost coins at today’s prices, rather than their value at the time of acquiring. Trust me, more VALUE will be lost due to centralized authorities fractional lending, insider theft, and other counterparty risks, than losing one’s keys.

NaplesBeach_4Evah

Dbuk….. I’ve never thought about price/value and I’m learning (I hope) from you. In your post I’m replying to….. if the VALUE of money were to go down, then a product’s price would expect to go up (because the PRODUCT hasn’t lost value, so more money would be needed to buy it?). Start my day off with a gold star…. Am I right?

Afraid-Wafer-140

After this I won't further engage in pointless conversations like these. But do give you a short overview: The course of stocks and major cryptos, such as bitcoin, does not only move up or down due to factual changes (say: a company brings out a new product and will now have higher profits or BTC mining rate decreasing due to a halving). They also change (upwards or downwards) due to the psychology of people. If people expect a rise or a fall the market will move too, due to a rise or a fall in demand and / or supply. (Eg. dogecoin going up after a tweet of elon musk or Boeing stocks going up when a new middle east crisis flammes up (due to people ANTICIPATING a rise in the VALUE of said company). With the upcomming halving event we are touching BOTH these factors. An inside reaction (decreased supply due to halving) and an external factor (people EXPECTING a rising course and thus buying BTC in said ANTICIPATION (= a rise in demand + a decline in supply). Considering these two factora are not contradictory, it's highly unlikely that they would cancel each other out and thus not have any result at all. Rather it's highly likely, and part of the nature of markets, that an event like that WILL have an effect on the valuation of BTC (or the exchange rate of BTC to USD if you will).

Left_Ad_7955

Did you use an active management protocol like Gamma ? Their "management" of concentrated liquidity/CL pair (uniswap v3) made me loose money on my LP because of rebalancing, and they dare say it's because I didnt stake the LP (so no rewards but I still should get fees + NOT LOOSING VALUE IN PUMP...). TLDR: I hate Gamma and concentrated liquidity v3 pools for volatile assets.

Constant-Ad-4172

Bitcoin will keep on rising. It is a STORE OF VALUE. Get rid of your debt, then come back to Bitcoin. Wish you the best bro 🙏🏻

Corbimos

Yes it does in the new paradigm bitcoin created. You dont own the bitcoin because you dont own the keys. FULL STOP. Not your keys, not your coins. Hypothetically, lets say I had $1M worth of bitcoin in an ETF and they were hacked and lost all of it. How much of that value would i get back? At the most i'd get the FDIC insurance on it. That's like 200k. What other asset do you "own" that works like that? The money in your bank account that is an IOU from the bank. YOU DON'T OWN BITCOIN IN AN ETF. YOU OWN AN IOU FOR USD VALUE OF BITCOIN. Why is this so hard to understand in a bitcoin sub? I'm fine with poeple wanting to own ETFs, but they aren't owning bitcoin.

Corbimos

Yes it does in the new paradigm bitcoin created. You dont own the bitcoin because you dont own the keys. FULL STOP. Not you keys, not your coins. Hypothetically, lets say I had $1M worth of bitcoin in an ETF and they were hacked and lost all of it. How much of that value would i get back? At the most i'd get the FDIC insurance on it. That's like 200k. What other asset do you "own" that works like that? The money in your bank account that is an IOU from the bank. YOU DON'T OWN BITCOIN IN AN ETF. YOU OWN AN IOU FOR USD VALUE OF BITCOIN. Why is this so hard to understand in a bitcoin sub? I'm fine with poeple wanting to own ETFs, but they aren't owning bitcoin.

Sure_Hedgehog4823

There is no bias. I asked you to prove the economy is doing well, not by showing me people agree with you but by proving we are operating more efficiently (ie the economy is improving or good). Of course this would be impossible because it’s not the case. The US and the businesses that run it are simply increasing the VALUE for shareholders by taking on DOUBLE the debt to provide the “growth” you are so fascinated with. Soon we will need to utilize TRIPLE the debt to provide that same growth & even then people like you will say look ! We are growing ! The economy is great. But anybody who understands balance sheets knows there is no way out of this and at some point we will not be able to 5x 10x 20x our debt to maintain a measles 3% GDP growth excuse me 2.5%. Does this make sense?

Constant-Ad-4172

In a short period of time, yes, BTC is quite volatile. But if we are talking long term, say 5-10 years, It performs MUCH better than gold and is a better investment. The way you have set up your portfolio is quite good. You are maximizing profits yet remaining safe and not exposing yourself to too much risk. Nothing wrong with liking shiny things. I like em too! But when talking about assets and money, you shouldn’t take into account their visual properties. Visual properties have nothing to do with STORE OF VALUE and therefore this post. This is what many people in this comment section don’t understand.

Constant-Ad-4172

1. I never said it has no uses. 2. I said it is not a good STORE OF VALUE compared to bitcoin. 3. Follow the discussion. You are making the same exact point as others. 4. I love fast cars. I wouldn’t use them as a STORE OF VALUE tho. 5. A gold watch has value that is assigned to it by its owner. But this is not the value I’m talking about. 6. I’m not back tracking. You’re not understanding my point.

Constant-Ad-4172

You’re still not getting it sir. Like I said, gold has many uses and might even have many more in the future. But this does NOT make it a good STORE OF VALUE. Bitcoin does a better job at being a store of value which is very important for our economy to work. Bitcoin in itself has no value at all, but in a large community when used as a store of value, it is perfect. It does an amazing job of storing value across time and space.

CryptoNerdSmacker

Ripple made it very clear from the start, they intend to move VALUE at the speed of INFORMATION. Through XRPL and XRP they are making this happen.

Tropic_Tsunder

value can be created artificialy. intrinsic value is a natural base property of anything. Like how a fancy steak at a steakhouse might cost 100$ and provide 1000 calories of nutrition to a person. but you could buy that same 1000 calorie steak from a butcher for, say, 25$ and cook it yourself. So despite the VALUE of that steakhouse dinner being 100$, in terms of foods most basic core use (providing nutrition to sustain life), the steakhouse dinner has no more INTRINSIC VALUE to human survival over the 25$ steak you cook yourself. they both provide you with 1000 calories of sustinence, so at their core one does not have any more or less absolute value to survival over the other. they both provide equal nutrition keep you alive. so the 75$ difference between the 25$ steak you buy at the butcher and cook yourself, and the 100$ steakhouse steak is purely artifical value. that value is created through having fancy decor and nice candle on the table and whatnot. But the basic core value of that 100$ steakhouse dinner is no better at helping you survive than the base cost of the steak you make yourself. Sure, there is obviously value in a nice dining experience. proven by the fact that we have nice dining experiences. but if society collapsed and you were barely able to survive and were on the verge of starvation, you would never trade the shirt on your back for 1 fancy 100$ steakhouse dinner when you could instead trade it for 4 dinners worth of steak to cook yourself. thats the intrinsic value. you will always need food to survive, and if it really came down to it on a deserted island, 4 steaks are better than 1 steak, which is why intrinsically the value of the fancy steak is not really any more than the plain steak. same would apply to designer jeans VS plain costco brand jeans. sure, the designer jeans have more value because of branding and advertising and whatnot, but the core base function of clothes are to protect us from the elements. if you were a homeless person who was cold every night and didnt have any pants, would you would never pay 5x more for the jeans with the fancy logo on them over the plain jeans without the branding. because the intrinsic value of jeans is keeping you warm and protected, and the fancy jeans dont serve that function any better. They have more value artifically in society, but if society changed or collapsed they would lose that value. whereas the costco jeans would always have that same base intrinsic value from the real function the serve you at their core.

Realistic-Guard-9854

Admit that it's true that it has no intrinsic value like houses or gold. But that's because this wasn't designed to serve like houses or gold. It's supposed to work as a cross-national currency. A form of money that doesn't need government approval to be sent across borders. A form of money that can be carried in human memory, which itself is a revolution. For the first time in human history, men don't have to carry anything but 12 seed phrases in their head to transfer vast amounts of wealth anywhere in the world. There is no money or asset like that. People, including Bitcoiners, too often overlook this feature, which on its own has massive value in a globalizing world of commerce and wealth and where political volatility and uncertainty is raising demand for an asset that can easily and safely store and move value. This is a fact so can't be disputed. But you could also argue that just an entry in the bitcoin network -- which is essentially what it means to own bitcoin -- produces no income or cannot be directly traded for real goods and services. That's also true. (Unless governments endorse bitcoin, I doubt that will ever happen. And if it did happen, bitcoin is deflationary, meaning it's foolish to pay it for items that depreciate in value while bitcoin will appreciate in value due to its limited amount.) But you can still sell your bitcoin to buy things just as you would sell houses or gold to buy things. People exchange money for bitcoin and it's a sprawling network of tens of millions of people that forms the market for bitcoin. In other words, it's fungible and more so than houses or gold. Besides, bitcoin is an asset and store of value. Why would you for example pay houses and gold to buy consumer goods? That's silly. But if you really wished to make money by selling bitcoin, it's much easier to do so than with houses or gold. So bitcoin has all the strengths of a currency, a house and gold, but to a partial extent if you understand what I mean. It has the characteristics of a currency in that it can transferred easily but can't buy items (yet). It shares the limited nature with houses and gold, but it doesn't produce a roof over your head or a shiny something that mankind have also mentally and industrially put store in. That's why it's an extremely controversial thing. Proponents will focus on the strengths, opponents will on weaknesses. But at the end of the day, it's the market that determines its value and that's shown through the price. There's a gap between value and price, but they almost always self-correct to converge and we're seeing the price go up continuously because people believe it will go up. People who see value will believe the price will go up and those who don't will bet the price will go down. That's natural. But a foolish thing to do is to overlook the strengths and focus on the negatives. In my view, as long as the bitcoin network grows, the value of bitcoin will go up, WHETHER IT HAS VALUE OR NOT. After all, it's just a ledger, a notebook where people put their names to claim ownership. And so are fiat currencies. Bitcoin just protects the value you've created better because it doesn't inflate or get manipulated by people more powerful than you. So I'd put some of my wealth in bitcoin as a hedge.

_artemisdigital

Here is my modest attempt to answer you. The only thing that's not "backed by anything" in this scenario, are the brain cells of the people making those claims. There isn't a single person, that ACTUALLY KNOWS how bitcoin works, and how money today works, that would make such claims, because at this point, it would be like claiming the earth is flat. # BITCOIN It's backed by: * Billions of dollars of worldwide unstoppable physical computer infrastructure (miners). * oh and also... fucking Maths (cryptography). It literally provides the same value / service as the internet, but for money. Internet is a physical network infrastructure that lets us exchange information. Bitcoin does the same but for value. You exchange value in a cheap, bordeless, censorship resistant, inclusive way. No government can stop it, and the network doesn't discriminate. It doesn't care about Gender, wealth, nationality, being banked or unbanked, or even being a human (because computer programs can also use blockchain networks). The only thing that matters is that you pay the network fees. That's why MOST of the adoption comes from Third World countries, especially those with extreme levels of inflation, or where most people are unbanked, or war zones like Ukraine. Of course, privileged, self-centered ignorant, and arrogant westerners, will be quick to ignore all that, and plebs will blindly repeat the propaganda poured into their ears by an elite social class that has been robbing them blind for fucking decades, through inflation. Your grandpa's salary alone, could buy a house for your grandma and 4 kids without working 40 years. Wake the fuck up. # VALUE Wtf is value ? Value is what people decide it is, and I'll prove it to you. * Some people think value is The *"exchange value"* aka the price (supply vs demand). * Others think it's the *"intrinsic value"* aka how actually provably and undeniably useful it is, like drinkable water, food, energy. Some people also think; *"During the Gold standard era; the US dollar used to be actually valuable because it was backed by gold, which does have intrinsic / real value !"* Mfcker - Gold doesn't have more intrinsic value than fucking sand on the beach. It has pathetically low manufacturing applications compared to cheaper metals like aluminum, iron, or copper, and jewels are 100% useless by definition. The truth is, oxygen and water are much more useful and have a much higher intrinsic value than gold or diamonds. Yet we "value" gold and diamonds more than water. **That's because diamonds and gold are RARE**. Scarcity is often used to determine value, even though it doesn't make sense. There are precious stones rarer than diamonds, yet nobody gives a shit about them. They cost nothing. So not only the US dollar today is worth jack shit, BUT EVEN during the gold standard, if we're fully intellectually honest, it was completely nonsensical to argue that it was *"backed by real value"* as if fucking gold had any real value to begin with. Let me throw you in a desert to starve, and then we'll see if you prefer a gold bar, or a bottle of water and a cheeseburger after 3-4 days... TLDR --> People DECIDED that gold was gonna be the cultural big winner of precious metals, thousands of years ago. # # The US Dollar & FIATs It's FIAT. It's shit. It has infinite supply. It's backed by nothing. Fugazzi. Vaporwave. *"but, but, muuurh duurh it's backed by the US economy and the US military !!"* Really ? Well then can I get some piece of that military power and economy if I exchange it at a desk in a bank ? No. You don't get shit in return, because it isn't worth shit aside than the belief you put in it. If a country refuses to transact with your USD as a currency, you're fucked because FIAT is toilet paper. In fact, toilet paper is better because I can wipe my ass better with it. Banknotes are too slippery. You think *"not using the USD as a currency"* is unrealistic ? Russia now forces what they call "unfriendly" countries, to buy their natural gas, by paying in Rubles. Germans rely heavily on gas to produce energy for their manufacturing industry, which is the pillar of their economy. They don't have nuclear power plants like the French, to offset a gas shortage. So they are ROYALLY FUCKED now. ​ # CONCLUSION People who ask you that question are not just people who don't understand how bitcoin works. It's mostly that they don't understand how money works. They have a much bigger problem. But that's the beauty of bitcoin and crypto. It forced ALL OF US to question a system we took for granted. It opened our eyes. It opened mine.

Aggravating-War-2753

The only thing that gives any currency any value is the fact someone will accept it as resolution to a transaction. That being said bitcoin not only can be used to trade back into most mainstream currencies giving it VALUE as a wealth security, in the case of your own currency going kaput, but bitcoin also can actively at this moment be used to buy things directly and is backed by one of the most secure electronic monetary systems that has ever been created. There are entire countries that have shipped antminers to their citizens to work as home heating funded by the government, El Salvador has created a self sufficient mining operation fueled by the power of their volcanos proving that there are already enough vested interests involved, even in the early stages of crypto before mass adoption has even started, showing it is feasible that even after the last btc is mined (which would be after all of our lifetimes) there will be enough vested interest into the sustainability of the project that people/corporations/governments would continue to mine btc just for the sake of securing their own wealth and prosperity making it one of the only currencies ever to have a potential of worldwide corporate support and competitive accumulation which is exactly why it is compared to gold or even above it given that we never know when they may make a particle manipulator using the Higgs boson to create as much gold as they wish but that is a talk for another time

mossgard007

Bitcoin at $500K means little when bread is $200 a loaf. This might not mean your Bit is increasing in VALUE, it could also mean the dollar has lost almost ALL of it's real buying power.

mehoart2

FFS stop ! You're getting upset about people that have NO VALUE in your life... and then you're subjecting all of to those people. Leave them alone and for fucks sake don't repost shit.

Buttcoinmodssuck

You don’t understand what money is and you don’t understand the concept of SCARCITY. If you understood money and SCARCITY you would see WHY 12 institutions want in on Bitcoin. Bitcoin requires 100 hours of studying to begin to grasp its value. You haven’t studied Bitcoin. This post is a prime example of why most retail is “thousand dollar net worthers” you don’t know how to accurately evaluate the VALUE of an asset or investment. There are financial analysts creating charts that value Bitcoin currently at 500k and you think you’re smarter than them. Smh And the funniest part is you provided no actual evidence for why Bitcoin can’t get to 1M, your belief has no actual statistics to back it. You have a limiting paradigm and that will lead to you making bad investments

waldito

>"BITCOIN ACTUALLY IS JUST MEASURING INFLATION. THE VALUE OF BITCOIN IS GOING UP CAUSE THE VALUE OF OUR DOLLARS IS GOING DOWN." \-Jeff Booth

Admirable-Style4656

a currency (bitcoin included) only has value compared to other things. hence the term 'currency PAIRS'. so the VALUE of bitcoin goes up COMPARED to other things, ie USD, gold, real estate, etc.

Historical-Bother-20

This is one of the most stupid FUD I have ever seen. Apart from the fact that Blackrock scooping up ALL the BTC would drive the price going parabolic, theoretically, even if the daily worldwide trading volume was 1 BTC (representing billions of dollars) and BR having 99,99% of alls BTC, miners would still be rewarded with BTC (fixes amount) and fees. The number of BTC transacted per block is irrelevant. What is relevant is the VALUE in each block and the fees people are willing to pay. What is this?

IcyMasterPeas

The whole POINT of BITCOIN is to absolutely remove 3rd party involvement and put that power into the hands of the holder (HODL!) of the asset. While an ETF may be useful in increasing the VALUE of the asset, it has nothing to do with possession.

FairBlamer

> OP doesn’t think there’s ANY dollar value BTC could reach that he would consider consciously selling at, but he admits he’ll sell for USD when he needs to buy something in USD. You’re being intentionally obtuse. I’ve already explained this above, but here you go again (with caps so maybe you can read it this time): OP will not sell Bitcoin JUST FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF ACQUIRING SOME SPECIFIC AMOUNT OF ANOTHER CURRENCY SUCH AS USD. OP will absolutely sell Bitcoin in exchange for another currency IF AND ONLY IF OP WANTS TO BUY A SPECIFIC ASSET FOR WHICH THE MERCHANT DOES NOT ACCEPT BITCOIN BUT INSTEAD DOES ACCEPT SOME OTHER CURRENCY. Therefore, the answer to “will you sell when Bitcoin reaches $100k” is “no I will not sell JUST BECAUSE Bitcoin reaches some arbitrary USD value; I will only exchange my Bitcoin for another currency IF AND WHEN I DETERMINE I REQUIRE THAT CURRENCY FOR SOME OTHER PURPOSE THAT CANNOT BE FULFILLED BY BITCOIN YET BECAUSE NOT EVERYONE IN SOCIETY UNDERSTANDS BITCOIN’S VALUE YET” In other words, there must be some FINAL END ASSET which OP desires which cannot be acquired with Bitcoin because the merchant does not accept Bitcoin as payment yet, before OP will make the determination to part ways with his Bitcoin in exchange for some other currency (such as USD). This is NOT a contradiction and you have NOT provided any counter arguments to this line of reasoning whatsoever. Try again.

Jacked_1

\> Not everyone who is interested in owning crypto is interested in self custody. Most dumbass shit I've heard in a while. If you're not interested in **self-custody**, you're not interested in **owning** either. Jesus fuck. It's by not realizing you're contradicting yourself that makes it easier to just push custodial solutions rather than help develop more accessible self-custody and taking the time and proof-of-work to educate. If the average person can't even be bothered to read a 9-page whitepaper on the simplicity of how it works and take an hour to understand how to secure what is theirs, then they likely don't deserve to own it in the first place. Look at FTX, they're now breaking ToS to credit back investors in the FIAT VALUE at the time of bankruptcy. This is when 1BTC != 1 BTC - And it'll only happen if you DON'T take custody. If you think ETFs are any different, after everything's that's happened with the financial system in the past 50 decades, you're still just as brainwashed.

CointestMod

#Cosmos Con-Arguments Below is a Cosmos con-argument written by gnarley_quinn. > > THE ANTI-SHILL FOR COSMOS: > INFLATION - Much too high. Staking rewards do not offset the supply increase. > There is a significant discrepancy between the inflation calculated by Messari and CoinMarketCap versus the stated inflation from the various Cosmos ecosystem scanners. > Whether it is because of some hidden lock mechanic for some tokens, and since these values are suppose to represent the circulating supply, it is not a good look for investors to have to justify why the stated inflation does not match the calculated one. > The staking rewards are averaged at 21.57% which is below the calculated inflation value, but above the stated inflation value. The staking rewards claimed on the COSMOS website also state the average APY is less than ten percent, which is significantly lower than the stated inflation. > There is a different incentive to holding which is airdrops. Depending on snapshots, you could get lucky with an airdrop that goes ballistic. > > > SOURCE INFLATION SUPPLY TODAY SUPPLY LAST YEAR > Messari 26.60 % 286,370,297 226,186,564 > Coinmarketcap 26.66 % 286,370,297 226,127,431 > Mintscan 13.82 % 313,077,417 Not provided > Atomscan 13.82 % Not provided Not provided > Cosmoscan 13.81 % 319,984,721.29 Not provided > UTILITY - Limited use. There is no reason to hold the token other than speculation > There is actually very little utility for the ATOM token. By staking ATOM, you are able to vote in Cosmos Hub governance decisions, but that is about it. There doesn't seem to be much reason to actually hold it other than it might go up or down and thus you could sell it. For context, other projects require their token to be used for fees or NFT sales. According to cryptofees, the COSMOS chain doesn't seem to actually make any money, the projects built on it do - which still doesn't seem to give a reason to hold ATOM. > DAILY ACTIVITY - It is a mystery! > Try as I might, I could not find statistics anywhere about how many addresses are actually being used on the COSMOS chain. To me, this is a massive red flag. I can find transactions on several sites quite easily, but not being able to find statistics showing me the total number of wallets created, and what percentage of them are currently being used seems impossible. This is a massive issue in terms of transparency on the chain. > Transactions > For what its worth, the average transactions seems fairly consistent, but until I can see the number of wallets that are active, I have no way of knowing if any of these are real users, bots, or just staking rewards. > MARKETCAP DOMINANCE - Falling all year > Obviously the entire crypto asset class is down this year, but if you compare like for like, you can still get a sense of whether the token is holding up well or not. > The marketcap dominance for COSMOS is roughly half of what it was at the beginning of the year. Reaching a top of around 0.6 % of the Crypto market in February, it now sits at 0.3 %. All altcoins will lose dominance in a bear market, but you would want the crypto to hold its own in the class as much as possible. Dropping 50% is not a good thing. > The dominance picked up prior to the announcement of 2.0, but has since fallen away again. > Marketcap dominance > TOTAL VALUE LOCKED - Where is it? > This value helps understand how many people are staking COSMOS and in a sense how commited investors are to the project. Yet once again this is a figure that is difficult to ascertain. > According to DefiLlama, there is no reported TVL directly for the ATOM token. Once again, they list all the projects built on top of the blockchain. The bonded tokens provided on mintscan also seem to correlate to this value. The highest individual TVL seems to CRONOS or KAVA, but I personally dont believe the locked tokens on an individual project on a blockchain should count towards the TVL on another chain. This is not necessarily a bad thing about the TVL for the ecosystem, but it begs the question again, what is the point of holding the ATOM token? > DECENTRALISATION - Some validators have too much control of the network > There are currently \~175 validators which is gives a Nakamoto Co-efficient of just 7. This is roughly the same level of decentralisation as Binance and is a terrible score. COSMOS really needs to increase the numbers of validators quickly because the distribution of tokens across the staking validators is a significant risk. > Nakamoto Coefficient > BIGGEST COMPETITION - Polkadot still higher in most cases > All cryptos are essentially in some sort of competition with each other. Due to the rationale, goals and purpose the blockchain, the biggest competitor to COSMOS is likely POLKADOT. > Again, the crypto asset class is down, by comparing marketcap dominance, Polkadot is still more than double the marketcap of COSMOS. > While Polkadot actually has about half the number of validators as COSMOS, the staking mechanism results in a much better Nakamoto-Coefficient of 85. This means Polkadot is 12 times more decentralised than Cosmos. > \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* > CONCLUSION: > Holding the ATOM token is pretty much only for speculation - you may get some free stuff or see the price rise. > TLDR: Just read the bold headlines ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Cosmos) to find submissions for other topics.

Digital_Scarcity

Wrong and misleading - this meme appears to be the corruption of the actual metric that BTC settles more VALUE in USD terms than tradfi networks, not TPS. That's what L2s like lightning are for. The base chain scarcity and security problem is solved, now we're solving scaling.

malte_brigge

>If "x" happens 20 years from when I saved it, IT SHOULD HAVE THE SAME VALUE AS WHEN I EARNED IT. I hate rampant inflation too, but you're ignoring the fact that the roofer can achieve this – or get close to it – by putting that money in a high-yield savings account like Ally or Discover. He can make a return that at least keeps him on-par with inflation, or close, without needing to invest a dime.

Jub-n-Jub

Man, that's a rough statement to read. What kind of just system would punish people that try to save? These same people are the ones that are able to recover from unexpected expenses. You know, because they had been putting away money just in case there is an unexpected expense. And then to incentivize gambling is also disgusting. If I put in an honest days labor roofing I should be able to put the value of that labor aside to pay for my child's "x". If "x" happens 20 years from when I saved it, IT SHOULD HAVE THE SAME VALUE AS WHEN I EARNED IT. To then tell that roofer that he needs to learn how to invest so he doesn't go broke is criminal. No different than giving someone a paycheck, that they earned, and telling them that they will lise it all unless they take it to the casino. Fiat is slavery.

CointestMod

#Cosmos Con-Arguments Below is a Cosmos con-argument written by gnarley_quinn. > > THE ANTI-SHILL FOR COSMOS: > INFLATION - Much too high. Staking rewards do not offset the supply increase. > There is a significant discrepancy between the inflation calculated by Messari and CoinMarketCap versus the stated inflation from the various Cosmos ecosystem scanners. > Whether it is because of some hidden lock mechanic for some tokens, and since these values are suppose to represent the circulating supply, it is not a good look for investors to have to justify why the stated inflation does not match the calculated one. > The staking rewards are averaged at 21.57% which is below the calculated inflation value, but above the stated inflation value. The staking rewards claimed on the COSMOS website also state the average APY is less than ten percent, which is significantly lower than the stated inflation. > There is a different incentive to holding which is airdrops. Depending on snapshots, you could get lucky with an airdrop that goes ballistic. > > > SOURCE INFLATION SUPPLY TODAY SUPPLY LAST YEAR > Messari 26.60 % 286,370,297 226,186,564 > Coinmarketcap 26.66 % 286,370,297 226,127,431 > Mintscan 13.82 % 313,077,417 Not provided > Atomscan 13.82 % Not provided Not provided > Cosmoscan 13.81 % 319,984,721.29 Not provided > UTILITY - Limited use. There is no reason to hold the token other than speculation > There is actually very little utility for the ATOM token. By staking ATOM, you are able to vote in Cosmos Hub governance decisions, but that is about it. There doesn't seem to be much reason to actually hold it other than it might go up or down and thus you could sell it. For context, other projects require their token to be used for fees or NFT sales. According to cryptofees, the COSMOS chain doesn't seem to actually make any money, the projects built on it do - which still doesn't seem to give a reason to hold ATOM. > DAILY ACTIVITY - It is a mystery! > Try as I might, I could not find statistics anywhere about how many addresses are actually being used on the COSMOS chain. To me, this is a massive red flag. I can find transactions on several sites quite easily, but not being able to find statistics showing me the total number of wallets created, and what percentage of them are currently being used seems impossible. This is a massive issue in terms of transparency on the chain. > Transactions > For what its worth, the average transactions seems fairly consistent, but until I can see the number of wallets that are active, I have no way of knowing if any of these are real users, bots, or just staking rewards. > MARKETCAP DOMINANCE - Falling all year > Obviously the entire crypto asset class is down this year, but if you compare like for like, you can still get a sense of whether the token is holding up well or not. > The marketcap dominance for COSMOS is roughly half of what it was at the beginning of the year. Reaching a top of around 0.6 % of the Crypto market in February, it now sits at 0.3 %. All altcoins will lose dominance in a bear market, but you would want the crypto to hold its own in the class as much as possible. Dropping 50% is not a good thing. > The dominance picked up prior to the announcement of 2.0, but has since fallen away again. > Marketcap dominance > TOTAL VALUE LOCKED - Where is it? > This value helps understand how many people are staking COSMOS and in a sense how commited investors are to the project. Yet once again this is a figure that is difficult to ascertain. > According to DefiLlama, there is no reported TVL directly for the ATOM token. Once again, they list all the projects built on top of the blockchain. The bonded tokens provided on mintscan also seem to correlate to this value. The highest individual TVL seems to CRONOS or KAVA, but I personally dont believe the locked tokens on an individual project on a blockchain should count towards the TVL on another chain. This is not necessarily a bad thing about the TVL for the ecosystem, but it begs the question again, what is the point of holding the ATOM token? > DECENTRALISATION - Some validators have too much control of the network > There are currently \~175 validators which is gives a Nakamoto Co-efficient of just 7. This is roughly the same level of decentralisation as Binance and is a terrible score. COSMOS really needs to increase the numbers of validators quickly because the distribution of tokens across the staking validators is a significant risk. > Nakamoto Coefficient > BIGGEST COMPETITION - Polkadot still higher in most cases > All cryptos are essentially in some sort of competition with each other. Due to the rationale, goals and purpose the blockchain, the biggest competitor to COSMOS is likely POLKADOT. > Again, the crypto asset class is down, by comparing marketcap dominance, Polkadot is still more than double the marketcap of COSMOS. > While Polkadot actually has about half the number of validators as COSMOS, the staking mechanism results in a much better Nakamoto-Coefficient of 85. This means Polkadot is 12 times more decentralised than Cosmos. > \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* > CONCLUSION: > Holding the ATOM token is pretty much only for speculation - you may get some free stuff or see the price rise. > TLDR: Just read the bold headlines ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Cosmos) to find submissions for other topics.

maxcoiner

What you're really asking them to do is to VALUE bitcoin over fiat. That's a hard ask for anyone at all who hasn't spent many hours reading monetary history and a book like The Bitcoin Standard to lay out the reasoning first. This just isn't ever going to happen. Not at any point in the future. They have to put in the time learning before they'll value it enough to keep it. So just focus on education; they'll do this on their own if properly educated.

Rice-Fragrant

You’re correct, technically the fiat currency is backed by IOUs, which has a NEGATIVE VALUE if it pays back at a rate less than real inflation/debasement…. So you are correct, USDs are “backed” by DEBT/CREDIT that has a value of BELOW ZERO if the debt can’t be payed with at least break even rates.

insanescv

k. repeat with me. electronic STORE of VALUE. that is what btc is. n00bs always tryna make things their not.

cannedshrimp

Right, but it’s fundamentally not that power hungry PER VALUE (which again is what matters) compared to other industries. Furthermore, being power hungry is only a problem in a scenario where the energy is dirty and or has other demands. Fortunately the data show that the miners are preferentially moving away from these types of energy for one very obvious reason: cost. The ONLY potential concern I have is miners trying to use stranded hydrocarbon energy, but the massive social backlash against that has been a strong driving factor to keep that at bay. There is an abundance of relatively green wasted energy in various forms globally that could power the network many times over with low emissions and little to no added cost to other energy users.

TheDanMan007

Your conclusion is why the lot of us are as bullish as we are I suppose you think pennies aren’t scarce also? If so, at least you would be right about that If 1 Sat (0.0000001 BTC) was worth 1 penny ($0.01), 1 Bitcoin would be worth $1,000,000. THAT’S A HUGE VALUE INCREASE OVER TODAY’S $34,000/BTC 1 million dollars per Bitcoin, when the smallest divisible fraction of Bitcoin is worth one penny At $1M/BTC, Bitcoin would have a market cap of $21T… HUGE, right? No, not really. $21T is a drop in the bucket compared against ALL asset global classes [Global household wealth is estimated at $418T](https://www.visualcapitalist.com/distribution-of-global-wealth-chart/) US debt is $33T **alone**. $33T multiplied by 100 pennies ($1.00) is, in scientific terms, a fuckton of pennies 33 quadrillion pennies, just to account for the current US **debt** That alone is a larger number of **units** than Bitcoin alone is capable of accounting for (21 quadrillion). Just the **US debt alone**, not counting [the total estimated global value of USD at 45.5T (45.5 quadrillion pennies)](https://www.sifma.org/resources/research/research-quarterly-equities/) Yes, Bitcoin is scarce and anyone who can’t see that after this breakdown is a fucking clown Hope that helps with your perspective 👌🤟

CointestMod

#Cosmos Con-Arguments Below is a Cosmos con-argument written by gnarley_quinn. > > THE ANTI-SHILL FOR COSMOS: > INFLATION - Much too high. Staking rewards do not offset the supply increase. > There is a significant discrepancy between the inflation calculated by Messari and CoinMarketCap versus the stated inflation from the various Cosmos ecosystem scanners. > Whether it is because of some hidden lock mechanic for some tokens, and since these values are suppose to represent the circulating supply, it is not a good look for investors to have to justify why the stated inflation does not match the calculated one. > The staking rewards are averaged at 21.57% which is below the calculated inflation value, but above the stated inflation value. The staking rewards claimed on the COSMOS website also state the average APY is less than ten percent, which is significantly lower than the stated inflation. > There is a different incentive to holding which is airdrops. Depending on snapshots, you could get lucky with an airdrop that goes ballistic. > > > SOURCE INFLATION SUPPLY TODAY SUPPLY LAST YEAR > Messari 26.60 % 286,370,297 226,186,564 > Coinmarketcap 26.66 % 286,370,297 226,127,431 > Mintscan 13.82 % 313,077,417 Not provided > Atomscan 13.82 % Not provided Not provided > Cosmoscan 13.81 % 319,984,721.29 Not provided > UTILITY - Limited use. There is no reason to hold the token other than speculation > There is actually very little utility for the ATOM token. By staking ATOM, you are able to vote in Cosmos Hub governance decisions, but that is about it. There doesn't seem to be much reason to actually hold it other than it might go up or down and thus you could sell it. For context, other projects require their token to be used for fees or NFT sales. According to cryptofees, the COSMOS chain doesn't seem to actually make any money, the projects built on it do - which still doesn't seem to give a reason to hold ATOM. > DAILY ACTIVITY - It is a mystery! > Try as I might, I could not find statistics anywhere about how many addresses are actually being used on the COSMOS chain. To me, this is a massive red flag. I can find transactions on several sites quite easily, but not being able to find statistics showing me the total number of wallets created, and what percentage of them are currently being used seems impossible. This is a massive issue in terms of transparency on the chain. > Transactions > For what its worth, the average transactions seems fairly consistent, but until I can see the number of wallets that are active, I have no way of knowing if any of these are real users, bots, or just staking rewards. > MARKETCAP DOMINANCE - Falling all year > Obviously the entire crypto asset class is down this year, but if you compare like for like, you can still get a sense of whether the token is holding up well or not. > The marketcap dominance for COSMOS is roughly half of what it was at the beginning of the year. Reaching a top of around 0.6 % of the Crypto market in February, it now sits at 0.3 %. All altcoins will lose dominance in a bear market, but you would want the crypto to hold its own in the class as much as possible. Dropping 50% is not a good thing. > The dominance picked up prior to the announcement of 2.0, but has since fallen away again. > Marketcap dominance > TOTAL VALUE LOCKED - Where is it? > This value helps understand how many people are staking COSMOS and in a sense how commited investors are to the project. Yet once again this is a figure that is difficult to ascertain. > According to DefiLlama, there is no reported TVL directly for the ATOM token. Once again, they list all the projects built on top of the blockchain. The bonded tokens provided on mintscan also seem to correlate to this value. The highest individual TVL seems to CRONOS or KAVA, but I personally dont believe the locked tokens on an individual project on a blockchain should count towards the TVL on another chain. This is not necessarily a bad thing about the TVL for the ecosystem, but it begs the question again, what is the point of holding the ATOM token? > DECENTRALISATION - Some validators have too much control of the network > There are currently \~175 validators which is gives a Nakamoto Co-efficient of just 7. This is roughly the same level of decentralisation as Binance and is a terrible score. COSMOS really needs to increase the numbers of validators quickly because the distribution of tokens across the staking validators is a significant risk. > Nakamoto Coefficient > BIGGEST COMPETITION - Polkadot still higher in most cases > All cryptos are essentially in some sort of competition with each other. Due to the rationale, goals and purpose the blockchain, the biggest competitor to COSMOS is likely POLKADOT. > Again, the crypto asset class is down, by comparing marketcap dominance, Polkadot is still more than double the marketcap of COSMOS. > While Polkadot actually has about half the number of validators as COSMOS, the staking mechanism results in a much better Nakamoto-Coefficient of 85. This means Polkadot is 12 times more decentralised than Cosmos. > \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* > CONCLUSION: > Holding the ATOM token is pretty much only for speculation - you may get some free stuff or see the price rise. > TLDR: Just read the bold headlines ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Cosmos) to find submissions for other topics.

CointestMod

#Cosmos Con-Arguments Below is a Cosmos con-argument written by gnarley_quinn. > > THE ANTI-SHILL FOR COSMOS: > INFLATION - Much too high. Staking rewards do not offset the supply increase. > There is a significant discrepancy between the inflation calculated by Messari and CoinMarketCap versus the stated inflation from the various Cosmos ecosystem scanners. > Whether it is because of some hidden lock mechanic for some tokens, and since these values are suppose to represent the circulating supply, it is not a good look for investors to have to justify why the stated inflation does not match the calculated one. > The staking rewards are averaged at 21.57% which is below the calculated inflation value, but above the stated inflation value. The staking rewards claimed on the COSMOS website also state the average APY is less than ten percent, which is significantly lower than the stated inflation. > There is a different incentive to holding which is airdrops. Depending on snapshots, you could get lucky with an airdrop that goes ballistic. > > > SOURCE INFLATION SUPPLY TODAY SUPPLY LAST YEAR > Messari 26.60 % 286,370,297 226,186,564 > Coinmarketcap 26.66 % 286,370,297 226,127,431 > Mintscan 13.82 % 313,077,417 Not provided > Atomscan 13.82 % Not provided Not provided > Cosmoscan 13.81 % 319,984,721.29 Not provided > UTILITY - Limited use. There is no reason to hold the token other than speculation > There is actually very little utility for the ATOM token. By staking ATOM, you are able to vote in Cosmos Hub governance decisions, but that is about it. There doesn't seem to be much reason to actually hold it other than it might go up or down and thus you could sell it. For context, other projects require their token to be used for fees or NFT sales. According to cryptofees, the COSMOS chain doesn't seem to actually make any money, the projects built on it do - which still doesn't seem to give a reason to hold ATOM. > DAILY ACTIVITY - It is a mystery! > Try as I might, I could not find statistics anywhere about how many addresses are actually being used on the COSMOS chain. To me, this is a massive red flag. I can find transactions on several sites quite easily, but not being able to find statistics showing me the total number of wallets created, and what percentage of them are currently being used seems impossible. This is a massive issue in terms of transparency on the chain. > Transactions > For what its worth, the average transactions seems fairly consistent, but until I can see the number of wallets that are active, I have no way of knowing if any of these are real users, bots, or just staking rewards. > MARKETCAP DOMINANCE - Falling all year > Obviously the entire crypto asset class is down this year, but if you compare like for like, you can still get a sense of whether the token is holding up well or not. > The marketcap dominance for COSMOS is roughly half of what it was at the beginning of the year. Reaching a top of around 0.6 % of the Crypto market in February, it now sits at 0.3 %. All altcoins will lose dominance in a bear market, but you would want the crypto to hold its own in the class as much as possible. Dropping 50% is not a good thing. > The dominance picked up prior to the announcement of 2.0, but has since fallen away again. > Marketcap dominance > TOTAL VALUE LOCKED - Where is it? > This value helps understand how many people are staking COSMOS and in a sense how commited investors are to the project. Yet once again this is a figure that is difficult to ascertain. > According to DefiLlama, there is no reported TVL directly for the ATOM token. Once again, they list all the projects built on top of the blockchain. The bonded tokens provided on mintscan also seem to correlate to this value. The highest individual TVL seems to CRONOS or KAVA, but I personally dont believe the locked tokens on an individual project on a blockchain should count towards the TVL on another chain. This is not necessarily a bad thing about the TVL for the ecosystem, but it begs the question again, what is the point of holding the ATOM token? > DECENTRALISATION - Some validators have too much control of the network > There are currently \~175 validators which is gives a Nakamoto Co-efficient of just 7. This is roughly the same level of decentralisation as Binance and is a terrible score. COSMOS really needs to increase the numbers of validators quickly because the distribution of tokens across the staking validators is a significant risk. > Nakamoto Coefficient > BIGGEST COMPETITION - Polkadot still higher in most cases > All cryptos are essentially in some sort of competition with each other. Due to the rationale, goals and purpose the blockchain, the biggest competitor to COSMOS is likely POLKADOT. > Again, the crypto asset class is down, by comparing marketcap dominance, Polkadot is still more than double the marketcap of COSMOS. > While Polkadot actually has about half the number of validators as COSMOS, the staking mechanism results in a much better Nakamoto-Coefficient of 85. This means Polkadot is 12 times more decentralised than Cosmos. > \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* > CONCLUSION: > Holding the ATOM token is pretty much only for speculation - you may get some free stuff or see the price rise. > TLDR: Just read the bold headlines ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Cosmos) to find submissions for other topics.

maynardstaint

Completely incorrect. Btc is a speculative asset. It has lost 90% of its value multiple times. THATS NOT A STORE OF VALUE. That is a wildly volatile speculative asset.

CointestMod

#Cosmos Con-Arguments Below is a Cosmos con-argument written by gnarley_quinn. > > THE ANTI-SHILL FOR COSMOS: > INFLATION - Much too high. Staking rewards do not offset the supply increase. > There is a significant discrepancy between the inflation calculated by Messari and CoinMarketCap versus the stated inflation from the various Cosmos ecosystem scanners. > Whether it is because of some hidden lock mechanic for some tokens, and since these values are suppose to represent the circulating supply, it is not a good look for investors to have to justify why the stated inflation does not match the calculated one. > The staking rewards are averaged at 21.57% which is below the calculated inflation value, but above the stated inflation value. The staking rewards claimed on the COSMOS website also state the average APY is less than ten percent, which is significantly lower than the stated inflation. > There is a different incentive to holding which is airdrops. Depending on snapshots, you could get lucky with an airdrop that goes ballistic. > > > SOURCE INFLATION SUPPLY TODAY SUPPLY LAST YEAR > Messari 26.60 % 286,370,297 226,186,564 > Coinmarketcap 26.66 % 286,370,297 226,127,431 > Mintscan 13.82 % 313,077,417 Not provided > Atomscan 13.82 % Not provided Not provided > Cosmoscan 13.81 % 319,984,721.29 Not provided > UTILITY - Limited use. There is no reason to hold the token other than speculation > There is actually very little utility for the ATOM token. By staking ATOM, you are able to vote in Cosmos Hub governance decisions, but that is about it. There doesn't seem to be much reason to actually hold it other than it might go up or down and thus you could sell it. For context, other projects require their token to be used for fees or NFT sales. According to cryptofees, the COSMOS chain doesn't seem to actually make any money, the projects built on it do - which still doesn't seem to give a reason to hold ATOM. > DAILY ACTIVITY - It is a mystery! > Try as I might, I could not find statistics anywhere about how many addresses are actually being used on the COSMOS chain. To me, this is a massive red flag. I can find transactions on several sites quite easily, but not being able to find statistics showing me the total number of wallets created, and what percentage of them are currently being used seems impossible. This is a massive issue in terms of transparency on the chain. > Transactions > For what its worth, the average transactions seems fairly consistent, but until I can see the number of wallets that are active, I have no way of knowing if any of these are real users, bots, or just staking rewards. > MARKETCAP DOMINANCE - Falling all year > Obviously the entire crypto asset class is down this year, but if you compare like for like, you can still get a sense of whether the token is holding up well or not. > The marketcap dominance for COSMOS is roughly half of what it was at the beginning of the year. Reaching a top of around 0.6 % of the Crypto market in February, it now sits at 0.3 %. All altcoins will lose dominance in a bear market, but you would want the crypto to hold its own in the class as much as possible. Dropping 50% is not a good thing. > The dominance picked up prior to the announcement of 2.0, but has since fallen away again. > Marketcap dominance > TOTAL VALUE LOCKED - Where is it? > This value helps understand how many people are staking COSMOS and in a sense how commited investors are to the project. Yet once again this is a figure that is difficult to ascertain. > According to DefiLlama, there is no reported TVL directly for the ATOM token. Once again, they list all the projects built on top of the blockchain. The bonded tokens provided on mintscan also seem to correlate to this value. The highest individual TVL seems to CRONOS or KAVA, but I personally dont believe the locked tokens on an individual project on a blockchain should count towards the TVL on another chain. This is not necessarily a bad thing about the TVL for the ecosystem, but it begs the question again, what is the point of holding the ATOM token? > DECENTRALISATION - Some validators have too much control of the network > There are currently \~175 validators which is gives a Nakamoto Co-efficient of just 7. This is roughly the same level of decentralisation as Binance and is a terrible score. COSMOS really needs to increase the numbers of validators quickly because the distribution of tokens across the staking validators is a significant risk. > Nakamoto Coefficient > BIGGEST COMPETITION - Polkadot still higher in most cases > All cryptos are essentially in some sort of competition with each other. Due to the rationale, goals and purpose the blockchain, the biggest competitor to COSMOS is likely POLKADOT. > Again, the crypto asset class is down, by comparing marketcap dominance, Polkadot is still more than double the marketcap of COSMOS. > While Polkadot actually has about half the number of validators as COSMOS, the staking mechanism results in a much better Nakamoto-Coefficient of 85. This means Polkadot is 12 times more decentralised than Cosmos. > \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* > CONCLUSION: > Holding the ATOM token is pretty much only for speculation - you may get some free stuff or see the price rise. > TLDR: Just read the bold headlines ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Cosmos) to find submissions for other topics.

CointestMod

#Cosmos Con-Arguments Below is a Cosmos con-argument written by gnarley_quinn. > > THE ANTI-SHILL FOR COSMOS: > INFLATION - Much too high. Staking rewards do not offset the supply increase. > There is a significant discrepancy between the inflation calculated by Messari and CoinMarketCap versus the stated inflation from the various Cosmos ecosystem scanners. > Whether it is because of some hidden lock mechanic for some tokens, and since these values are suppose to represent the circulating supply, it is not a good look for investors to have to justify why the stated inflation does not match the calculated one. > The staking rewards are averaged at 21.57% which is below the calculated inflation value, but above the stated inflation value. The staking rewards claimed on the COSMOS website also state the average APY is less than ten percent, which is significantly lower than the stated inflation. > There is a different incentive to holding which is airdrops. Depending on snapshots, you could get lucky with an airdrop that goes ballistic. > > > SOURCE INFLATION SUPPLY TODAY SUPPLY LAST YEAR > Messari 26.60 % 286,370,297 226,186,564 > Coinmarketcap 26.66 % 286,370,297 226,127,431 > Mintscan 13.82 % 313,077,417 Not provided > Atomscan 13.82 % Not provided Not provided > Cosmoscan 13.81 % 319,984,721.29 Not provided > UTILITY - Limited use. There is no reason to hold the token other than speculation > There is actually very little utility for the ATOM token. By staking ATOM, you are able to vote in Cosmos Hub governance decisions, but that is about it. There doesn't seem to be much reason to actually hold it other than it might go up or down and thus you could sell it. For context, other projects require their token to be used for fees or NFT sales. According to cryptofees, the COSMOS chain doesn't seem to actually make any money, the projects built on it do - which still doesn't seem to give a reason to hold ATOM. > DAILY ACTIVITY - It is a mystery! > Try as I might, I could not find statistics anywhere about how many addresses are actually being used on the COSMOS chain. To me, this is a massive red flag. I can find transactions on several sites quite easily, but not being able to find statistics showing me the total number of wallets created, and what percentage of them are currently being used seems impossible. This is a massive issue in terms of transparency on the chain. > Transactions > For what its worth, the average transactions seems fairly consistent, but until I can see the number of wallets that are active, I have no way of knowing if any of these are real users, bots, or just staking rewards. > MARKETCAP DOMINANCE - Falling all year > Obviously the entire crypto asset class is down this year, but if you compare like for like, you can still get a sense of whether the token is holding up well or not. > The marketcap dominance for COSMOS is roughly half of what it was at the beginning of the year. Reaching a top of around 0.6 % of the Crypto market in February, it now sits at 0.3 %. All altcoins will lose dominance in a bear market, but you would want the crypto to hold its own in the class as much as possible. Dropping 50% is not a good thing. > The dominance picked up prior to the announcement of 2.0, but has since fallen away again. > Marketcap dominance > TOTAL VALUE LOCKED - Where is it? > This value helps understand how many people are staking COSMOS and in a sense how commited investors are to the project. Yet once again this is a figure that is difficult to ascertain. > According to DefiLlama, there is no reported TVL directly for the ATOM token. Once again, they list all the projects built on top of the blockchain. The bonded tokens provided on mintscan also seem to correlate to this value. The highest individual TVL seems to CRONOS or KAVA, but I personally dont believe the locked tokens on an individual project on a blockchain should count towards the TVL on another chain. This is not necessarily a bad thing about the TVL for the ecosystem, but it begs the question again, what is the point of holding the ATOM token? > DECENTRALISATION - Some validators have too much control of the network > There are currently \~175 validators which is gives a Nakamoto Co-efficient of just 7. This is roughly the same level of decentralisation as Binance and is a terrible score. COSMOS really needs to increase the numbers of validators quickly because the distribution of tokens across the staking validators is a significant risk. > Nakamoto Coefficient > BIGGEST COMPETITION - Polkadot still higher in most cases > All cryptos are essentially in some sort of competition with each other. Due to the rationale, goals and purpose the blockchain, the biggest competitor to COSMOS is likely POLKADOT. > Again, the crypto asset class is down, by comparing marketcap dominance, Polkadot is still more than double the marketcap of COSMOS. > While Polkadot actually has about half the number of validators as COSMOS, the staking mechanism results in a much better Nakamoto-Coefficient of 85. This means Polkadot is 12 times more decentralised than Cosmos. > \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* > CONCLUSION: > Holding the ATOM token is pretty much only for speculation - you may get some free stuff or see the price rise. > TLDR: Just read the bold headlines ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Cosmos) to find submissions for other topics.

Dazzling_Marzipan474

Read The Bitcoin Standard. People try to overcomplicate things. It's just MONEY that is decentralized and a STORE OF VALUE. As opposed to fiat CURRENCY which DEPRECIATES and is greatly manipulated with hidden taxes called inflation.

ReplacementPasta

>EXAMPLES Stocks Stocks is a great example, stocks on it’s own is rather useless, if the company does nothing, gives no dividends, and doesn’t grow. You’re at the mercy of if more people bought after you did, there’s no utility or use case. BUT if you receive dividends, you get value. Same with NFTs. There is the fact that when you buy a stock, you own a part of that company. The company propably owns something of value like factory or realestate. But yeah., when the debt of the company exceeds the net worth of the company, then the stock is essentially worthless in the "now" moment, at that point you are buying into the future operations of that bussiness. If it doesnt go anywhere, the stock is essentially worthless. ​ >2. Houses Houses is a great example, owning a house in a random remote island in Africa is useless to you, but if there’s development around it like cafes and supermarkets you gain value. The more development around your asset, the more it grows in value. But there’s no value, all you have are 4 walls and a roof. Yeah, houses are a non productive asset. But it fulfills a basic human need of shelter. There is always some inherit value to shelter, and the land has resources that are worth something. You shouldnt buy a house in hopes of it growing in value by itself. ​ >THATS VALUE, and as the Nft devs make the collection into a company, the more the company grows the better the NFT performs. I think people miss understand NFTs as a useless image, but it’s more then that. With NFT, you arent buying anything inherently valuable. Most NFTs dont even come with the rights to the picture. A company can create value for an NFT, like for example by making an NFT concert ticket, then there is inherit value to the NFT.

sandpaperboxingmatch

>It’s not based upon or tied to anything of value. > >... > >Plaintiff and the class have lost approximately $86 billion So it is Elon's fault that someone invested in something they believe to have nothing of value? This contradiction itself should persuade the judge to dismiss this case. Usually, those harmed LOSE because they were promised something of VALUE. This guy just seems salty he made a bad investment because Elon likes the coin. This is such a waste of time.

Independent-Space-23

well thought out response, but didnt quite understand what I am saying: value is subjective, but only to an extent. every human understands scarcity, and thus scarce things are (potentially) valuable. **scarcity is the number one factor, if we had to pick one alone, that determines objective value**. though, for example, there are few of my boogers, but do they really have value? hence **not even scarcity alone can determine objective value: context becomes key to whether scarcity does give value to the thing in question** Let's apply this to bitcoin. If you understand that Bitcoin ensures monetary scarcity, and that the world needs sound money, the objective value Bitcoin has to you goes through the roof (as objective as we special snowflake unique humans can view) Price is a simple way of expressing this objective value, because everybody else around you is also using it as a measure. But, it is PRICETHE VALUE OF THE THING ITSELF the problem with all current economic ways of thinking, is that they do not truly try grasp the concept of value, thus they mistake things that are worthless, such as currency, as the whole point of their economic existence. "investing in bitcoin \[to make fiat\] I am not investing in fiat, you chodes, I am opting out. back to the point you made, value does not come from productivity, you are actually making the argument for communism ironically, because they believe labor (which is another way of saying productivity) is the way value is determined the problem is labor/productivity is actually subjective: I may have no need for your labor at all in one context, and it be essential in another. an objective measure of value cannot be The benefit for society is bitcoin itself: a stable way of storing value: our current unstable way of storing value is a huge problem that drives environmental damage, all the way to trap music and consumer culture Fix the money, fix the world.

Remyleboo99

This seems like big news - tweeted by Walter Bloomberg: “MICROSTRATEGY, CRYPTO COMPANIES WIN FAIR VALUE ACCOUNTING” This means that when BTC goes up they can write that into their books and show it off in their earnings report. Previously they would only write the price they bought at and if there were “losses” (even if they didn’t sell). Now they can say that they have “gained” (again even if they didn’t sell). The rule from before sounded strange but I guess it’s balanced up now!

ChuckDeBongo

Couple of things: 1. Will people please stop saying “Black Swan event”? People used to say this because Black Swans they were extremely rare. Until they “found” Australia and it turned out it was a common animal over there. 2. I love this subreddit! It’s predicted 29 of the last 2 recessions. 3. There will be a mini-panic. Governments won’t do anything if it is short term, but will pump the system with money if it gets out of control (a la 2008/2009). They KNOW these economies need to undergo recessions in order to purge the system of malinvestments, but it cannot do it if the purge is too big. Hence, why it’s a slow moving train crash. The ONLY thing which is guaranteed is inflation will rise. Slowly or quickly. But it will go up. Mainstream currencies are guaranteed to lose value. I repeat. MAINSTREAM CURRENCIES ARE GUARANTEED TO LOSE VALUE. Hence, why I am investing in stocks, crypto, precious metal, etc. ANYTHING but holding cash (unless it is in a high interest account, and even then it’s a limited amount.). This isn’t financial advice, this is just what I am doing. You do you. But I’m (literally) cashing out. Peace out.

benditbackwards

Never! We are in a transitory phase of Bitcoin, where miners have to pay for their power in the local currency, as the demand and adoption increases, especially as the supply keeps shrinking ( due to halving and boating accidents ;) ) The VALUE of Bitcoin will increase, to the point where the people supplying the power, will demand to be paid in Bitcoin! At that point, no one will care about the price of Bitcoin in the local currency, because it will BE the local currency. Also and this is the game theory of Bitcoin, the difficulty adjustment dynamically adjusts based on the available hashing power, the inefficient miners will start to shut down due to competition from more efficient miners. There is always a struggle between the miners and the difficulty adjustment, rest assured, there will always be miners chasing the profit of the fees and reward as we move into the bright Bitcoin future!

Fear_Blind83

Found the Binance BNB SAFU wallet 👀 1,364,102.149150831147718361 BNB VALUE: $295,664,560.17 https://bscscan.com/address/0x4B16c5dE96EB2117bBE5fd171E4d203624B014aa

pizzapicnic

Does anyone here know the difference between DCA and VCA? It's a huge pet peeve of mine because I see it ALL the time here. I say this with love: ... DOLAR cost averaging means buying a predetermined about of something on a predetermined day for a set period of time regardless of price or news. VALUE cost averaging is buying the dip.

pizzapicnic

If you buy outside of you designated daily/weekly/monthly buying, you are not DCAing. You are VALUE cost averaging.

Quiet_International

It’s a decent store of value over 5 years. It’s a decent international money transfer system. It’s an excellent system for transferring payments instantly via LN. THE NETWORK HAS VALUE

rikbona

*the VALUE of the shitposting * sensei 2.0

Quiet_International

not the same at all. Charging me means that i can pay the VALUE out of some other fund. Taking the assets means that i lose the principle.

SpeedoCheeto

God this small (understandable) but significant misinfo is being posted everywhere. Options are reported as NOTIONAL VALUE So that position is prob more like \~50m; 20k contracts take a wild guess at a strike it's still not billions of dollars in PREMIUM (COST TO BURRY/SCION)

EpicHasAIDS

Except the establishment doesn't think BTC is a store of value. You know, the people with money? I can't even begin to explain how dumb it is to call something a "store of value" which has rallied nearly 50% year to date and remains less than half the VALUE it had when it was an all time high. How is that a store of value?

FeeeFiiFooFumm

Yeah, so what? Even if binance were to block my deposit or do anything else a) I don't have to go through a CEX to sell and b) the VALUE of my ETH has not changed. USD is also completely fungible even if the money can be traced to "forbidden" activities and I can't use it as freely as "clean" money. This changes NOTHING about the fungibility of it. You demonstrate a clear misunderstanding of the topic here, mate. I get what you mean but that is not what fungibility is.

bodog9696

I AM the opposite of an Internet troll & certainly not some "cocky poster" that goes on Reddit & tries arguing against OPs about ideas I know nothing about. However, you can get angry but the financial structure & fundamentals of BTC & other cryptocurrencies has almost ZERO to do with ANYTHING financial. Have you ever been dealing with crypto & think --THIS IS THE DUMBEST, NON-VALUE ADDED devolution of almost every aspect of the current, well- established financial super machine. Some of you might have felt that & just figured "it must be something beyond my level" or "certainly something this big must have something amazing --where there is smoke there must be fire." What about NFTs? You can regurgitate some b.s tech babble or pseudo -scientific purpose you've been told & accepted. But I bet most people still are thinking --I just don't get it. Hundreds of thousands of dollars for "PNG's" that I can screen shot & have an indistinguishable image on the front end. Yet it's snowballed --someone thinks "there' must be something to it. Look at the growth?" Or "I DON'T have the technical expertise to understand the process because it's so complex & value added. Someone smarter than me understands it so they must be smart". I'm not interested in some attack & debating an entire message board because I am in the know of what's going on & neither of these 'crypto' & 'blockchain' driven financial vehicles & markets & are NOT 1) About finance & true value added processes 2) Are about the underlying tech 3) Is part of a social experiment to show how people doubt themselves, defer to someone that "must be smarter than me!" & highlight an ALARMING sheep flocking behavior where we prefer to follow the sheep's button in front of us & trust it rather than be a "wolf & make some noise". To think --THIS is dumb. To listen to explanations from others no smarter than you and not be scared to howl & say "THAT'S EVEN DUMBER! SOMETHING IS OFF!?!" You will get attacked & belittled by the masses because they are scared & just don't want you rocking the boat because it makes them uneasy. I'm sure you've seen it. "So that's what a 'manic episode looks like" or "Put the foil hat away cuckoo. Something this big can't be a big dumb snowball where the only demand that drives the market is from the clueless outbidding each other for an imaginary prize they think they are winning while ultra rich & others CONTROL the ebbs & flows through social manipulation --something illegal with traditional securities. You can't predict the real equity markets. But crypto jumps & drops double digits from an Elon Musk tweet. Short DOGE then sends a subtle negative tweet & makes a huge margin profit. Buy it up cheap in the open market then tweet "Twitter is the home of DOGE". That 15% spike and market volume is people buying his DOGE from the last down swing. Lol. When you can "fleece" the public in a bear, bull, upswing, downturn market --you have a slow & steady $200B+ net worth. Anyone who isn't angry & wants to know more, DM me & I will gladly inform you. For the angry attackers, keep chasing 4 minute 8% surcharge transactions that you could do instantly for free in the current system. It's so dumb & mysterious it must be something big. So was the Wizard of Oz until they got the gots to look behind the curtain. I already regret this post. Lol

clue5tick

I clicked on the link. The Title of the YouTube video is: *THE VALUE OF THIS CRYPTO GROWS IN YOUR WALLET EVERY HOUR!!! THIS ALTCOIN IS THE REAL STORE OF VALUE!* It's the Crypto Bastard one-karma Army, posting their shitcoins.

pixieshit

The idea here is that the fiat financial system is a "scam" because the money supply can be arbitrarily expanded through government bond-buying and fractional/no reserve banking. This occurs because fiat currencies are not pegged to hard assets like gold which has a very steady supply rate that can not be manipulated. Credit expansion is literally financial value created out of thin air. When debt is issued, the supply of money expands and causes inflation in the economy (more money in system = more demand = less buying power). This is the difference between **REAL VALUE** and **FINANCIAL VALUE**. Real value is the production of goods and services in the economy. This is intrinsic value. Financial value is just a claim on intrinsic value. But the value of these claims can be inflated. In a fiat system, ALL MONEY IS DEBT. Meaning all money is essentially a promise to be paid back. There is no tie to hard assets. The US dollar is at the end of a long-term debt cycle. There is too much debt in the system and a lot of it was driven by covid-induced money printing and low interest rates (which incentivises debt creation). This is why we're seeing crazy inflation, a growing wealth gap, and political instability. I wouldn't even call it a ponzi because it's not like old investors are being paid with money from new investors. It's worse than a ponzi. It's like if the company just made up their own money and told people it was valuable. This is why crypto is valuable. The supply of bitcoin and other main blockchains are mathematically determined at a steady rate. It can't be manipulated by monetary policy and the ledger hasn't faulted once since its inception.

boerenbrok

We broke Delta as well. LEMME CHECK THE VALUE OF MY MOONS

BGuy27

XRP Arcade (I think it was) used to have a great website detailing aspects of XRP and common FUD... but not sure it's still up? The information is out there. The basic confusion w XRP/Ripple had a foundation in the early years of it bring FUD'd by Bitcoin people (and believe it or not I'm a Bitcoin guy... I just have a larger world view than Shatoshi is God)... they were literally paid BTC to put out false info. And you weren't a cool "crypto dude" if you liked XRP... still exists today. Versus all the other coins that had ICOs over the years? Look, nothing is perfect... I wish Ripple (the company) didn't control so much XRP in escrow. I can also come up w negatives for every other project, including Bitcoin. I can also see since it's open source Ripple has less than 3% of the validators on the XRPL... last time I looked. Takes 80% to "control it". On and on... its right there. Spend the Bits is an independent project that sends BTC over the XRPL (ironically). XUUM wallet is not a Ripple product. I don't know the names of the projects but there are NFTs, video games, music tie ins, Tap Jets (from the lawsuit) takes direct payment in XRP bc they like the quick settlement heading into a weekend (and traditional finance snoozing) that's key for their business... private jet rental. So as we sit here today there is a decentralized digital asset that already has a use case (cross border/bridge/fiat) that is being implemented... and oh my God it's through a centralized company providing the software!!! Blasphemy! And lightning network is a centralized solution/company providing a use case for BTC network... so? Not totally apples to apples but similar imo. And others are already building on that same decentralized XRPL network... don't people get it? Ripple doesn't want to control the XRPL (far worse for them)... they just want to be a player, even a minority player on the XRPL People are too caught up treating crypto assets like its their favorite sports team rather than looking at the VALUE proposition. But wtf do I know?

R4ID

>A centralized system with non-identifiable nodes, whereas Ripple, by their own admission, runs 4 of them. which gives them the power to do what exactly? please answer this question as it is the crux to why you are incorrect. >You seem to be blatantly oblivious to the difference between authority nodes, which verifies the information, and data processing nodes. I have run a validator on the XRPL for several years at this point, you dont seem to understand how the XRPL functions. >Nano has lower fees, as close to 0 as possible. It can do anything XRP can, but better. Really? ok, I want you pay me In Gold using Nano in a in a single transaction oh and I want 10% of the transaction to also be in Thai bhat as that is also wish to accept that as part of the payment. Go ahead and explain how that is possible with Nano, Ill wait. (you wont explain shit because you just realize you're way out of ur depth) Currently AFAIK only XRP and XLM are able to do this. >I can transfer money today, nationally, instantaneously, for free, with a regular bank. Now do it internationally, and have the currency swap into part currency part commodity. Ill wait for you to realize only XRP/XLM can do this currently. lets say your in japan, How can you convert your YEN to brazilian Real and Gold in a single transaction to me. (you cant) because you dont understand what VALUE proposition and what solution XRP offers to the market. >You’re just another drone, repeating the idiocracy that’s been spewed by your compatriots a thousand times. you clearly dont understand the problem XRP solves nor the solution it offers. >XRP is pointless. It fails in the same way Nano did. Nano failed because you have to receive/want Nano in order to use it. XRP allows you to transfer anything of value that you have, convert it into ANYTHING else of value that the receiver wants all at a low cost and very quickly. >If it were to be a «foot in the door» strategy, as opposed to a cash grabbing scheme, it would have been a stable coin. sigh, Stablecoins dont solve the same problem XRP solves. Banks/FI use Nostro/vostro accounts with dormant value in order to facilitate international payments today If you make it a stablecoin it means that A. it cant rise or fall like the tide to provide liquidity anywhere where and when it is needed. B it means it has a limit to how much liquidity it can provide . C it is not geopolitically neutral and whatever currency you back this value with is not immune from political shenanigans. D You would simply be digitizing the current problem by locking up capital in order to facilitate trade. XRP frees this dormant nostro/vostro value and allows it to become working capital. > It’s a pre-mined shitcoin with zero tangible evidence of utility outside of making it’s creators into billionaires. yet ODL transfers billions YoY in value solving problems globally.... curious isnt it. >And this benefits the holders of XRP how exactly? Increased liquidity creates a feedback loop. The more liquidity you can provide the more problems you can solve for more people. This increases Value generated by the network and increases demand for the network. What happens to price with Deflationary supply when demand and value increase? >There’s no metric of finding value between the private and public network. ODL is an example, liquidity hub is another. >. The public network serves no purpose I just explain how it is a key part of their software stack. and is at the core of their entire business strategy. >Where’s the decentralization? can anyone doublepspend? create more XRP? censor XRP transactions/users? force code updates on validators? where is the centralization. please give me a theoretical or practical example. so far youve shown you dont know what youre talking about. >If 66 authority nodes collude, they can rewrite every single piece of information written to the blockchain. lol, no they cant. This is where youve shown you dont understand the difference between a node on BTC/ETH vs a node on the XRPL. They dont decide what transactions go into each block and cannot be manipulated like on BTC/ETH. you dont know what youre talking about.

mx5slol

oh yea? so what did the stockholder of twitter get when elon bought it out? (spoiler you got liquidated at 54.20 a share) you dont even own your stocks. say you buy in fidelity. you have an iou from fidelity for the VALUE of the underlying only. they may or may not buy the underlying (its not like a bank that you can demand delivery of a share...and they print fakies anyhow) and when they do its owned by a company named Cede and Co (DTCC) that fidelity just has an IOU from them for!! YOU LITERALLY NEVER APPEAR ON THE COMPANIES BOOKS AS OWNER OF ANYTHING.

ztrz55

Op is specifically talking about divisibility not growth. Still compare crypto to us dollars. You can create new cryptos indefinitely BUT the difference between that and creating new dollars indefinitely is dollars ALREADY HAVE VALUE. New cryptos have to compete in a fierce competition with all the other cryptos and they DO NOT ALREADY HAVE VALUE.

ROBINHOODEATADIK

So… ETH MAX but not ETH …. Yeah when are the people gonna realize this is all just a tyrannical attempt to prevent the average everyday Americans from achieving success or financial independence!!!??? They didn’t even care about crypto until they saw the PLEEB’s joining their little club …!!! Then when they saw it could help lift the commoners off dependence on their meager handouts which threatened their control over them … suddenly it’s ‘ we have to shut down the threat to avg investors ‘ …. FUCK THAT !! If they truly cared about ‘threat to avg investors ‘ they’d do something to stop the hedge funds from BORROWING SHARES FROM THOSE PEOPLE TO SHORT THEM AND TANK THEIR VALUE !!! FUCK GARY GENSLER FUCK JANET YELLEN FUCK THE FED FUCK THE SEC !!!!

Mothrahlurker

Read the SEC release. They allowed HIGH VALUE american customers to keep trading on Binance.com. You are most likely not a high value customer, so this being "clear to you" is irrelevant.

kk7766

HAHAHAHAHA. I CAN'T BELIEVE MORONS FELL FOR THE DOGECOIN AND SHIBA INU PUMP AND DUMP SCAMS. HOW COULD YOU INVEST ALL YOUR MONEY INTO A WORTHLESS INTERNET COIN THAT HAS NO ACTUAL VALUE?!?!?!?!?! I'm so glad 100% of my money is in Bitcoin, a worthless internet coin that has no actual value.

JustCryptastic

INTRINSIC. adjective. in·​trin·​sic in-ˈtrin-zik, -sik. : belonging to the essential nature or constitution of a thing. VALUE. adjective. val·​ue ˈval-(ˌ)yü : relative worth, utility, or importance ————— Scarcity and value are core to btc BY DESIGN, as well as being trustless and decentralized. Value of a single unit increases over time Fiat is backed by nothing but a government promise, is devalued over time to fund politically biased and self-serving initiatives oftentimes with the explicit intent to maintain and/or project power, and requires trust in a centralized financial system BY DESIGN. Value of a single unit decreases over time So, which one, by it’s design and nature (intrinsic), has greater value again?

forlotto

I surely ain't in this to buy something that everyone else is buying at the moment its a finite "STORE OF VALUE" its not important to me that the volume is low really at the moment that is subject to change I simply like the new mobile wallet and the ease of use.

CoverYourMaskHoles

Millions/Billiond Of *VALUE can be transferred instantly and without jurisdiction. Do not forget a bank could build on blockchain and offer USD services that allow for blockchain settlement. So if banks switch to building ontop if Bitcoin, they would use bitcoin themselves to pay for transactions on the network, but the value that the transactions are keeping track of could be any currency or assets.

Rice-Fragrant

You’re totally wrong… you can easily lose value selling gold. I have done barter with gold and personal dealings with several dealers before I discovered bitcoin. Many gold/silver bugs ONLY WANT MELT VALUE PRICES… and they are super picky about finger prints and milk spots or scratches too. Does it make any logical sense to buy a generic gold coin at 10% premium from the dealer THEN SELL AT MELT VALUE (lossing 10%) when you need to exchange the coin for an item? It’s even worse when selling to the dealers for cash… they sell their coins at melt + PREMIUM (10-20%) then they buy that SAME EXACT COIN for 90% melt value… you lost 20-30% just there alone ALL FOR THE PRIVALAGE OF GETTING FINGERPRINTED AND HAVING KYCed etc on record. The dealers sometimes cheat people with their scales too or “miscount” your stack, especially if it’s like HUNDREDS OF OUNCES in the case of silver… some dealer trying to steal 30+ ounces of silver from my after his “scales were off” by a few percent… that’s a lost of almost $1000. Selling/buying or bartering with gold/silver in private can actually be MORE STRESSFUL than the professional dealers too… you’re constantly worried of getting assaulted/rubbed or if they are tailing you to your house with a second person to burglarize your stash at home. Before I discovered bitcoin, I had to go through ALL THIS PAINS of hold and dealing in gold/silver. I actually used it as a form of money and it was MUCH MUCH MORE DIFFICULT than bitcoin… after I found out Bitcoin’s true potential I dumped all my gold/silver and never looked back. Personally, my only interest in gold/silver now is for collecting old historical coinage… not for use as actual money.

benditbackwards

If I might be able to help, the 1 Bitcoin = 1 Bitcoin thing... The point of the expression has to do with comparing VALUE of something to another thing. If I have one Bitcoin today its value RELATIVE to USD will increase, that is to say, in the future, it will require MORE USD to buy the same Bitcoin. Why? Because the USD is constantly being debased by the Fed, they keep increasing the SUPPLY of USD, without increasing the supply of the goods and assets you can buy with that USD, market forces will cause those goods and assets to increase in price relative to that USD. ( i.e. if I'm selling a good and there are many buyers (demand) willing to pay up for that good because they have more freshly minted USD). So yea 1BTC = 1BTC is kinda a short way of saying that in the future, as the USD keeps depreciating in value, it will get to a point like the Bolviar where no one will accept the Bolviar as payment for their good or service, if there is a stronger, more stable, more VALUABLE payment option available, like Bitcoin or sats.

East-Performer7586

1. STORE OF VALUE 2. Lightening network

Knotley-Hunt-Brick

Getting hacked and exploited left right and center doesn’t help either. Dexs have their eyes on re-inventing the wheel by cashing the success of uniswap or AAVE or compound. And focusing on governance tokens doesn’t help either. Pancake Swap bite the dust recently due to poor planning on VAULT APR from the beginning favoring user count and VALUE LOCKED.